a fully charged, non critical sniper shot should only do 100 damage instead of 150.
a fully charged, non critical sniper shot should only do 100 damage instead of 150.
a fully charged, non critical sniper shot should only do 100 damage instead of 150.
BUAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA NERF SNIPER PLEASE I CAN'T PLAY AROUND HIM
No, it should do 175
Then use the Machina.
machina does 173 not 175
Unplayable
You're the same retard who thinks awp is overpowered in cs
CS:GO has an economy system, losing AWP means you're on ECO.
In TF2, you can snipe however long you wish, while everyone else can't really interact with you from that range. Someone either needs to pick sniper to make you play peekaboo with them or someone needs to take a flank route to go to where you are and kill you that way, assuming they don't encounter half the enemy team on the way.
It's not balanced, but I don't think it should be balanced, you're not going to encounter that good sniper next match, next match pablo_sanchez2010 is going to be sniper and he will hit 1/100 shots. TF2 isn't a comp game, it doesn't need to be perfectly balanced.
actually sniper rifle should only do 1 damage and kills the user instantly
This. I miss DoD: Source. Snipers killed in one hit 9/10 times, and occasionally leave 10% health, maybe when it hit limbs or something I forget. It felt better and I don't remember snipers being considered overpowered except for those shitty overly open custom maps.
DoD had class limits and a sniper could never top score because of objectives being worth infinitely more than kills
>first person shooter with a focus on mid-close range combat
>add a long range class that can instantly kill
>also make him effective at close range (jarate/bushwacka) for no reason
>give him unlocks designed only to specifally fuck over other classes (darwins, razorback)
>if the sniper is good enough the game becomes essentially unwinnable
why the fuck did sniper ever make it past concepting
>if the sniper is good enough the game becomes essentially unwinnable
Wow its almost as if skill is being rewarded. Go back to overwatch you drooling gay.
There you can enjoy spamming projectiles down a corridor
>1 class can shut down the other team if he's "too good"
Bad game design
You're just bad.
T. I play soldier in high tier
>taking tf2 seriously
Please go back to r/TF2 thanks for watching and remember to follow uncle dane on twitter.
EVERY CLASS CAN SHUT DOWN A TEAM IF THEY'RE A CONSIDERABLY BETTER PLAYER THAN THE OPPONENTS
A GOOD SCOUT WILL PICK OFF EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOU AND GET AWAY WITHIN SECONDS
A GOOD SOLDIER WILL BE ALL OVER THE MAP, JUMPING AND AMBUSHING THE ENEMY TEAM BEFORE GOING RIGHT BACK WITH HIS TEAM TO MAKE THEM MOVE ALONG
A GOOD PYRO WILL MAKE THE TWENTY FEET NEXT TO HIM A DEATH ZONE WHILST RENDERING PROJECTILE CLASSES USELESS
A GOOD DEMO WILL OUTPUT 80% OF HIS TEAM'S COMBINED DAMAGE
A GOOD HEAVY WILL BE SEEMINGLY UNKILLABLE AND WILL SPEEDRUN THE ROUND
A GOOD ENGINEER WILL MAKE VENTURING INTO ENEMY TERRITORY IMPOSSIBLE AND HAVEHIS ENTIRE TEAM ALWAYS AT THE FRONTLINE
A GOOD MEDIC WILL NEVER FUCKING DIE NO MATTER WHAT YOU THROW AT HIM, AND HIS TEAMMATES WILL BE JUST AS TANKY
A GOOD SNIPER WILL LOCKDOWN ENTIRE AREAS OF THE MAP, NOT BASED ON SIGHTLINES ALONE
A GOOD SPY WILL MAKE YOU CONSIDER KILLBINDING IRL WITH HOW ANNOYING EFFICIENT THEY ARE AT STOPPING TEAM COORDINATION
>every class
You've obviously never played spy when every other player on the server is a regard. The enemies are constantly spychecking and your teammates are not following up on the plays you make.
Engineer too, all it takes is 2 soldiers to bully you.
This
It takes a semi decent Pyro and you can switch your class as spy.
this is absolutely not true
every class other than sniper has hard counters that will prevent them from going on a full on rampage
sniper has items that counter all his hard counters so he can absolutely dominate a server
additionally it's way more fun to die to a soldier at close range since you have some chance of counterplay
dying to a sniper because you dared to peek your head out into the battlements for 1 second is simply not fun because most classes cannot do anything to fight back
Sniper doesn't even have a hard counter. Spy sucks dick against sniper even if the sniper isn't using any anti-spy weapons. The only counter to sniper is a sniper. Terrible game design.
Scout counters sniper.
But you're just too shit to understand.
>Scout counters sniper.
>*stands on top of something
nothin' personal mate
>every class other than sniper has hard counters that will prevent them from going on a full on rampage
KEK
Even just the three offense classes by themselves have many options to counter their "hard counters" just like all the others do
>Scout
Sentries? Drink Bonk or just stand on top of them and circle strafe or use FaN/SP/Winger/Atomizer/Basher for increased movement and ignore them
Heavy? Just have better movement and approach him from odd angles so you easily 3 shot him.
Heavy with Natascha? Just do stutterstep movement lmao
Pyro? Easy two shot with scattergun/SP and can use FaN to make it even easier
Everything else? Mad milk and pocket pistol for free hp! Shortstop for easy midrange kills! Crit cola for free minicrits!
>Soldier
Sentries? Just rocket jump to ignore them or use DH lmao
Pyro? Time rockets or rocket jump to a better position because soldier has better movement options than pyro or use DH
Engi with Short Circuit? Shotgun or bait his energy balls so he runs out of metal and then kill him effortlessly
Everything Else? Black Box and conch for free hp! Gunboats to let you jump around the map in seconds and escape from losing fights easily!
>Pyro
Water? Hold jump above water so you can hurt things with your primary or use the sign
Hitscan? Just use your flares for anything long range or ambush them in small areas and combo them!
Other Pyro? Just swap your weapons faster for combos or hold s + m1 or use shotgun lmao
>Drink Bonk
Is bypassing, not actually dealing with, even being a nuisance in the backline you're still having to respect the sentry
>stand on top
Relies on the engi's poor positioning to let you get close enough without getting perforated, not your actual skill
Not gonna bother with the rest if this is what you open with. Sniper actively beats any of his counters besides other snipers.
>Bypassing a sentry is not the same as dealing with it
>Even though by ignoring the sentry and getting to the backline now allows the scout to spawncamp because his hard counter ended up useless
>It's impossible for a scout to simply kill an engi and then kill the sentry or drink bonk and make the sentry kill the engi then sit on top of it to destroy it or drink bonk, run by the sentry to bait the engi, kill the engi, spawncamp the engi, and then let someone else destroy the sentry
KEK
enjoy your domination
wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/7/7c/Scout_dominationeng04.wav
>every class
has to be on or near the frontline to do so which makes them highly susceptible to getting killed.
Sniper doesn't. Stop being a fucking retard please.
>all these shitters telling on themselves in the replies
lmao, good job. pubbies shouldnt be allowed to talk about balancing in this game
Most is true but I don't agree on heavy and spy. Try playing spy on defense during a payload game where your team is getting rolled. Heavy can mostly sustain himself but the answer to a good heavy with a shit team is spy or sniper. Even if the heavy is very aware of his surrounding it just takes one moment when he's in the heat of it for the fully charged machina to headshot him or the spy to walk past his clueless teammates.
The rest are pretty true though, all the power classes (soldier, demo and scout) can pretty much single-handedly stomp an entire lobby.
Spy and Sniper are still useless even when they're good at the game. If the topscorer is a Spy or a Sniper I know our team is fucked because they're just kill farming while our team is barely making any progress.
A good Medic, Heavy, Soldier, Demo, Pyro, Scout, and Engineer can carry the fucking team if they're good at the game. Spy and Sniper not so much.
>pic
Context?
the context are that women are retarded and pretend their fat friends are 8/10s to inflate their egos.
I'll add to this by saying Spy is less useless than Sniper because he can be anywhere he wants and has great tools to fuck with Engineer's teleporters and "increase enemy spawn times" by taking them on wild-geese chases around the backlines (though, I am grasping a bit here). The problem is that good Spy players rarely play Spy correctly and just go for the epic deaf Gibusvision Heavy trickstab into Daimondback critical hit true-combo.
I find it amazing on how dramatic the 'useful to team'-gap from classes like Spy/Sniper compared to Pyro/Medic is.
Pyro can air blast opponents off of points and away from allies.
Pyro can extinguish allies.
Pyro can check spies easier than any other class.
Pyro can reflect incoming projectiles.
It's fucking silly that Spy and Sniper don't have any particularly visible 'support' options aside from fucking Jarate.
>which bitch do i consider the least threatening
>which woman do i want to fuck the most
>Top Rank for Women interest is chud
>Top Rank for Men is the Asian girl with the chud being considered hotter then the fatty and the Black
Lesbian sisters... how do we cope that we find a girl with a dick more attracted than a girl with a vagina?
>Lesbian and Bi Women are more likely to pick the MTF woman over the Cis women
kwab
>"it" even doesn't hide male foot stance
LMAO
you can't hide what's inside
No other class besides Engineer can just make the game unwinnable. And with just “aiming skill” in a game with several skills besides aiming.
no one actually expected anyone to take this game seriously enough to get good at it
>make him effective at close range
>give him unlocks designed only to fuck over other classes
You mentioned the Bushwaka for the former, but Darwin's covers both. They mentioned it specifically in the patchnotes that the DDS was rejiggered both to hard counter flares AND "strengthen melee fights vs Pyros."
And it was another one of those changes that came about because
>oh this item completely fucks over our specific format of TF2 which is the REAL game and what casual should be a pipeline to
>valve please fix please fix please fix please fix please fix please fix please fix please fix please fix please fix please fix
like a bunch of the other shonky changes in Jungle Inferno that catered to compfags, and of course Pyro vs Sniper isn't something that exists at all in comp so I guess who gives a shit that this nonsense somehow gets to exist.
Grandfather clause. All shooters need a sniper rifle, balance be damned.
>why the fuck did sniper ever make it past concepting
Because removing a class that's been a part of Team Fortress since 1996 would have spit in the face of the core userbase.
>if the sniper is good enough the game becomes essentially unwinnable
Extremely good soldiers and demos are a snipers's worst nightmare tbh. Doesn't matter how good they might be
this is why i'm a huntsman enjoyer. it's more fun anyway
>it’s more fun
lol no, you just suck at actual sniper
>right click
>don't even charge, just hit the head
>instant kill
>right click and hold
>bodyshot bandit
>instant kill
wow so much more engaging
If you have even one competent soldier on your team to roam then the sniper stops being a problem because he spends most of the game looking at the respawn screen.
people who hate sniper never play him and thus will never understand the immense frustration of being divebombed by old washed-out roamers and forcing you to choose between hanging back and waiting for him and spending almost no time covering the main choke or trying to get as many picks as you can before getting crushed because your team is allergic to making sentries
they don't even need to bring us source 2 yet if they just revert most weapon changes since Tough Break I'll probably be pretty happy for a good while
>people who hate sniper never play him
this should be a Ganker banner or a thread banner in general
Looking at the first few maps of the game, they were Dustbowl, Granary, 2Fort, Control Point Well, Gravel Pit, and Hydro. Map creation was primarily focused around small traversal with lots of corners which made Sniper harder to excel. As new maps were released, maps got wider and had more open sightlines, which meant that Sniper started to excel when previously he was niche.
>effective at close range
How the fuck are you getting bodied by a melee weapon? Holy shit you suck
>essentially unwinnable
t. straight line walker
Someone explain how this pasta is still getting mass replies for 4 years straight
Because the game basically hasn't changed in four years straight.
>give him one good counter in the form of the spy
>later give sniper a weapon that completely negates spy's main source of damage and nothing else
I swear Sniper has some of the most fucking boring unlocks ever, only the huntsman stands out
sniper rifles are always overpowered in shooters because they are as strong as shotguns at close range, but can also instakill at long range. They make all other guns useless.
you're a fucking retard AND you're bad at the game, sad!
Scout using the Force o' Nature has to be touching your hit box to do the amount of damage that sniper can do anywhere. Of course you still need to have good aim, but if you do then it's busted. Sniper should do 130 damage and mark for death.
It's been proven the game is better without Sniper.
>t. seething scunt
get fucked, bitch
still sniper should lose the sniper rifle and have huntsman as a stock weaopn
filtered
im glad u guys arent in charge of balancing
All you need to do is make uncharged headshots mini crit instead of crit you see people writing entire Yugioh card descriptions on how to "fix" sniper when all you need to do is make it so he isn't three times as effective as he was designed to be
>taking a .308 round to the brain should be survivable!
wow shut up any time gay.
>tf2 is a realistic game
go double jump off a bridge irl gay
>pistol does pitiful damage from all distances
>shotgun doesn't one shot heavy from up close
>minigun doesn't one shot from ANY distance
Yeah, TF2 was always known for it's realism
can someone explain why sniper and spy are support classes? how can they actually support their team better than other classes (engies dispenser and teleporter, solders banners and whip) who arent support classes?
Medic picks. That's literally it.
uhhh..... your jarate bro?
jarate is an unlock tho
i get that the classification of "attack, defence, and support" dont really mean that much
to the classes nowadays but what was the idea for sniper being support back in 2007
when there was no unlocks? or was it just a case of "sniper dosnt fit anywhere else and having the classes in 3 groups of 3 looks better" and support was just more of a misc category
Spy disables Engineer buildings (and can give out vital info but it's not necessary in casual)
Sniper has jarate and the sydney sleeper
Another episode of nu-zoomers complaining about a game they just got into. No one cares what you think.
Sniper and spy take out high value or hard to kill targets like heavy, medic, and engineer. They are not the main offensive force of your team but they can still provide substantial benefit.
Make him reload his weapon like (almost) every other class in the game. Say after maybe five shots he has to reload every bullet in his rifle. It'd encourage your average pub sniper to at least be more considerate with their shots instead of trying to MLG quick scope everywhere, as well as give an opening to attack him.
id go a step further and make his rifle a single shot, like an old school garand or something, with a short animation between shots of a bullet being inserted or w/e
would slow down his damage output and make him far less oppressive whilst still allowing him to get the important picks. would mean the sniper has to choose abit more carefully who they shoot, and when, and would make him abit more vulnerable and provide just slightly more downtime which enemies can capitalize on
his reload between shots should be a very distinct sound that can be heard on the battlefield, like a very distinct "ping" sound. that way, players could go from cover to cover / peek between his shots
>make his rifle a single shot, like an old school garand
Buddy, you could have picked any rifle from history instead of the first widely fielded semi auto service rifle.
okay ill admit i know fuck all about guns but you know what im sayin
for some reason i was thinking back to my cod days way back in the day and garand m1 came to mind as a bolt action rifle
It's okay bro, I got what you meant. It just made me laugh that you landed on like THE semi auto rifle
plz rate my sniper balance changes proposal again:
>retain base dmg
>charge now only caps at x1.50 (75) instead of x3 (150). Fully charged HS at close range is now 225. The charge time is shortened to maintain the same damage increase rate so it takes 1 second to be fully charged.
>add damage fall-off
>BUT NO RAMP-UP
>special ramp-up/fall-off values for sniper rifle
>pic rel for specific data
for reference, the pl_badwater rocks that snipers use to stand on, hide behind, and spawn camp with (the ones on the right from BLU's perspective) is ~2356hu away from BLU turning the corner inside spawn, so he would only be dealing max 111 damage (charged) every 2.7 seconds instead of 150 damage (quickscoped) every 1.7 seconds via spawncamping. The PAYLOAD, HOWEVER, is only ~1550hu away from that sniper spot, giving sniper 141 damage vs players who are actively capping (enough to outright kill a scout or spy or medic). I feel like this makes snipers positioning much more important and dynamic while also not just giving him to the END OF THE FUCKING EARTH to deal potentially 450 damage at a time.
>Rifle scope charge slowly opaques a visual beam (starting from 0 so quickscopes are beamless) that when fully charged is 33% visibility compared to a machina tracer (visual clutter is a concern so only 33% max. This is compounded by the next dotpoint) (this is alongside the dot that instantly appears on scope)
>Rifle scope visual beam is ALSO affected by fall-off, tailing off and becoming entirely invisible by the 2048hu threshold (dot still stays of course)
SMG:
>inherents the same fall-off values as the Sniper Rifle
>base dmg increased to 12 to make up for a new lack of ramp up (since previously close range smg dmg was 12 anyway)
>reduce spread even further (so, so slightly reduce. the smg spread is already incredibly tight. Just a LITTLE ITTY BITTY BIT tighter)
cont.
>Base HP raised from 125 to 150
and finally
>instant kill on HS enemy snipers regardless of HP (sniper duels are still fun)
The idea of these changes is that sniper can abuse his range, but he is STILL a support class and he's STILL playing TF2. His intention is to soften up targets for the rest of the team in relative safety. He's a safe HP tax (as opposed to spy being a risky player tax). He can still pick off classes whole, but now he has to work for it and play around the map as opposed to the map playing around him. TF2 is a game built on SOFT counters but very few actual HARD counters. Sniper as of now is the only class that is truly polarising both in how he plays and how classes interact (or lack thereof) with him. Forcing a sniper to be mobile is, imo, the #1 thing you can do for the class.
Sniper can still 1shot soldiers but he needs to play smart to do so. 1-shotting soldiers is meant to be a defensive action, an outlier, and more often than not done by baiting around a corner (classic), not a regular occurrence. Sniper can still just dink rocket jumping soldiers out of the air easily and as far as I'm concerned, that is crippling enough to still call sniper a solid soldier counter.
Sniper can NOT 1-shot heavies under any circumstance now, but come on he practically invalidated the class and forced heavy into ALWAYS been a tunnel snake instead of just often being one. Sniper can still easily dink the heavy 3+ times when he's out in the open and at roughly 168 dmg every 2.7 seconds I think it's still a solid counter. (NOTE: snipers specifically have flinch immunity vs miniguns at 750hu, so now sniper has a "sweet spot" for shitting on heavies instead of just a flat distance threshold)
All these changes seek to effectively do is to allow sniper to abuse his strengths and maintain his identity - but ALSO not fucking cheat by breaking the games most important under-the-hood mechanic (not engie).
>reduce medic's max HP to 140
tl;dr
Needlessly overcomplicated and overnerfs the class in my opinion. Would also never be accepted due to how overreaching your changes are.
I think the best and most reasonable course of action would be to remove his quickscope potential so he's forced to commit to his scope if he wants to do damage.
>you put too much thought into it and I don't like reading
>instead we should take away the main thing that makes sniper fun
Lmao. Removing quickscopes isnt gonna stop you from instantly dying without counter-play any time you're out in the open. I don't understand how giving sniper a modified fall-off to be more in-line with the other classes is "overreaching".
I read what you wrote and decided I'd rather give a quick reply and go play Open Fortress than give a point-by-point breakdown on all the flaws in your suggestions.
You may find quickscopes to be the most fun part of sniper, but it's the part of his kit that most flies in the face of the intended design goals.
>Removing quickscopes isnt gonna stop you from instantly dying without counter-play any time you're out in the open.
The goal of my suggestion isn't to remove getting sniped from the game. If a sniper commits to his scope without getting punished and hits his shot, I'm ok with being dead.
>I don't understand how giving sniper a modified fall-off to be more in-line with the other classes is "overreaching".
Dude you'd make it so a full charged body shot does 50 at conventional sniper range.
>Dude you'd make it so a full charged body shot does 50 at conventional sniper range.
current sniper can deal 50 damage from any range every 1.5 seconds. I don't think people realise how insane that is. Sniper never had to scope in to be a problem, just consistently railgun them QuakeIII style from unreachable parts of the map. Reducing his effective reload time from 1.5 seconds to 2.7 isn't as game-breaking for him as you're implying it is.
50 damage is fucking nothing anon, by the time the Sniper can take another shot you're already gone
>by the time the Sniper can take another shot you're already gone
yeah..if sniper was in a regular classes range...which people itt keep saying never happens and never is supposed to happen. The point is that he's in a nigh-unreachable position dealing constant and consistent damage with no risks.
and that's why I wrote this
All you have to do is give other classes some long range options to deal with Sniper and he's suddenly not so broken anymore
>All you have to do is give other classes some long range options to deal with Sniper and he's suddenly not so broken anymore
see you're right but that would undermine what tf2's gameplay is built upon
too complicated and retarded. you want to make sniper both less effective from far away and up close? might as well remove him at that rate. go back to the reddit school of game design where you came from
a lot of people take that video as a message of 'oh, it's obvious now to just remove sniper from the game' and not the other, more obvious interpretation of 'sniper isn't OP at all you're just a bitch'
definitely the least offensive change I've seen suggested. they "recently" nerfed the CSGO AWP to only have 5 in a mag instead of 10 to force players to budget their shots properly and makes misses more punishable and wallbangs a bigger commitment while retaining its ability to one-shot everyone and claim an ace without reloading.
>least offensive
It's probably the only real change you could do to the Sniper class without changing fundamental gameplay. It makes Sniper's shots more valuable without changing their impact. Plus, with 4 bullets in a 'clip', you can still dispose of enemies with quickscopes, but you can't single handedly shut down teams with a flurry of headshots because you have to reload. In addition, a reduced ammo count increases reliance on ammo packs and dispensers, meaning Snipers either have to play around their team or take risks in order to get potentially more rewarding picks. This would be significant as a GOOD Sniper (with a 240hz monitor and custom configs) can effectively delete people anywhere in his sightline with little risk to himself in current TF2. This change effectively leashes him without changing how the Sniper works.
it makes sniper still feel strong, you can hit your reaction shots, pick off valuable targets and you'll typically pull back for a little bit after holding an angle anyways to avoid getting countersniped or a coordinated team push. it wouldn't break the flow of gameplay much, but it makes quickscoping riskier since you're a sitting duck during a 2 second reload and if you miss that last shot on a scout buzzing around you then you have to rely on your secondary/melee as intended. I wouldn't mind it being implemented in TF3/TF2:S2 even though I still like sniper as he is now
>can't oneshot squishies if you manage to headshot them from the other side of the map
I hate Sniper has much as the other guy, but this is retarded. Yeah Sniper is technically a support class, Spy is too and his thing is still killing people, what's your point?
This is also retarded, Sniper should be able to headshot relatively quickly after scoping otherwise you're just making the class significantly less fun.
Sniper is only so strong because very few classes actually have long range weapons as well. Add one to Demoman, Engineer and Heavy - doesn't need to be something that can just outright kill a Sniper far away on its own, just greatly annoy them like the Scorch Shot or Direct Hit while still being useful in other scenarios-, remove the Ambassador's damage falloff and give it slower firing speed in exchange, rework some other weapons so they're somewhat effective at range (alt fire with the Bison that charges up and shoots out a ray, make the Sandman's ball a lot faster and replace the useless slow down with slower firing speed, etc) and Sniper is not a problem anymore.
>sniper should be able to oneshot squishies from total safety 1000km away because uuuhhhhh....
the point is that Sniper wouldn't be in total safety from range anymore, if he's dominating too much you could swap to weapons that fucks with him just like you can fuck with a good Spy by switching to Pyro
>but what about really, really, really long sightlines
There are incredibly few of those, and hitting heads on fast targets from those distance should by all means reward you with a kill
>the point is that Sniper wouldn't be in total safety from range anymore
sniper SHOULDNT be in total safety while also being 100% effective, no class should, and no class other than sniper is. An engineer building further away from the front line is much more safe but his sentry is much less effective at area denial (since it'd only cover his building and no other points of interest), his dispenser would be less effective because players would have to run back further to get to it which by then they could just die for whatever reason, and the teleporter would be less effective because players would still need to run a bit to reach the point. Every single class is built like this, the more safely they want to play, the less they can accomplish. Even medic is affected by this if he wants to build uber quickly/before the enemy he needs to go out and HEAL people instead of just slowly farming and overhealed afk. That's the foundation of Safety ∝ Effectiveness and it's what TF2 is built on.
Sniper, however, is completely unaffected by this in majority situations! He doesn't need to risk ANYTHING to be maximally effective, in fact, due to how sightlines work and his range increase with distance, his effectiveness INCREASES with him playing safely - and that's why he needs to be changed.
You can even buff him any way you want alongside my changes but he HAS to be forced into some sort of risk if you want to have people stop making threads about him!
>and no class other than sniper is
he's not
he is
sorry but no, he's not.
sorry but yes, he is.
then you are really bad at tf2
post hours. classtimes and medals
you first.
No, you first, gay.
nope, you prove you're not a shitter
You prove you're not a shitter.
i clearly have no trouble with snipers, ergo i am not a shitter. you are crying about sniper, ergo you are a shitter. gg no re, fuck off moron
I wasn't even the gay you were replying to, I just want to see your hours, classtime and medals. You're hiding from it like a bitch.
>i-i'm not him...
suuuure
Hours.
Classtimes.
Medals.
aight homie, since you's a bro
i reset my hours like a retard around 2013 for some reason so unfortunately the hours now don't add up
>a sub 3k player manages to be less of a gay than the one spilling tears over sniper
pretty funny, agree
lmao you're retarded dude. hand in your posting rights. you're going to bed.
nope. i'll stay right here and call you a moron much like retard who will not stop crying about how bad he is at tf2.
>y-y-y-you're bad
>n-no i dont have any credentials. no stranges or medals or even accurate classhours...MY 2.7K HOURS SPENT SOLDER BOMBING SNIPERS AND ENGINEER CAMPING IN 24/7 2FORT MEANS IM IMPORTANT OK!!!!!
worst part is I can tell you're shit at sniper just from your retarded posts alone. you have no idea about what arguing over
you are absolutely mindbroken by someone who doesn't adhere to your dogma. that's hilarious. you still have yet to post your own hours by the way, abbo fag
you are absolutely retarded and I don't care to continue talking to a brick wall when the original point of conversation was burned out long ago
heres your hours, fag. btw good job demonstrating that all you have is a measly 2k hours and a big dunning-krueger-ass mouth for guzzling sniper cock. Maybe talk to 1(one) actual sniper main who's worth anything beyond pubstomping 5am SEAmonkeys before forming an opinion and defending it like your fragile ego depends on it.
Damn, bro, get a life
I've been playing TF2 for 13 years, 4k hours ain't shit.
nothing to do in aussie land except get murdered by dingos and stop the local abbo from huffing petrol out ya gas tank
>Soldier
>Engineer
>Sniper
kek
Fuck already, you gays
I've been playing sniper since 2011.
_(me)
this
3rd party cunt isn't me by the way, but also post hours classtimes and medals
>anons only proof is a single strange with a measly 28k kills
come on anon surely you have better proof than that you know how to play the game
let me just upload my birth certificate wtf do you want? a medal?
wait- PFFFFTTTT SUB-3K HOURS? AFTER ALL THAT BIG TALK MAN YOU A DUMBCUNT AYE
>ozfortress
aussie comp TF2 is so irrelevant I forgot it even existed, you may aswell have posted a ugc plat medal man
forgot to add, props for posting proof though, you're better than the majority of anons
cool medal, unironically
>tfw only have Cap that Charity 3rd place
>sniper SHOULDNT be in total safety while also being 100% effective
And that's why I'm fucking saying, other classes need some long range weapons as well. It's literally all that's needed, if every class had something like the Direct Hit or Flare Guns you could just fire back at them
Would it really though? Close/Mid-range fighting would still be preferable with my proposal. Flares Guns don't make Pyro a ranged class, it'd be the same with every other classes
>And that's why I'm fucking saying, other classes need some long range weapons as well. It's literally all that's needed
No. TF2 is fun because it’s a close ranged game. Making every class long range just makes it less fun.
sounds like tf2 maps just need to go back to being close range focused instead of making these long ass sight lines
It would still be a close range game, as to do any real damage you'd still have to fight at close range.
This thing needs to be reworked again ffs, all they had to do in the first place is remove the damage resist, the +25 max health wasn't broken at all on its own. Just valve being valve I suppose, I'm honestly surprised that a fun weapon like the Dragon's Fury got made
>uses flare guns to deter snipers
>sniper removes you as an annoyance entirely
I don't think "just release new weapons that counter him, bro" is a good fix, it's a bandaide at best. Because it would still require the player to go back to resupply and change what he was doing just for seeing 1 class. Ideally you should be able to deal with the sniper with your ability and decision-making regardless of what your general loadout is. TF2, despite what people seem to think, is based on moment to moment decisions and skill, not whether or not you brought the correct potions to the dungeon.
>mfw reading this
damn this guy was right
>the sniper should not be allowed to be a sniper because I walk in straight lines and get killed
Which class causes the least salt?
Heavy?
>queue heavy with the Natasha and a pocket medic right outside your spawn door
everything in tf2 causes assblasting no matter what
demo
probably heavy, if you die to a heavy you either got yourself into a retard position and had 0% chance of surviving or he's pocketed so youll rage at the medic anyway
Heavy but if we're only talking about dying to a given class then Medic. I'm sure some people get annoyed when they die to an uber but I feel like most people just find it to be a fact of life that sometimes they'll turn a corner and there's an invincible guy there. But the real salt medic causes is when he isn't there at all. The lack of medic causes an extreme amount of anger among the team from which he is absent. But dying to a medic is just an occasional annoyance when he crit saws you, overall he won't cause that much anger. The vaccinator alone might beat out heavy as an entire class though, I'm not sure; more data is needed.
If we're just talking about 'how mad is somebody on average upon dying to X class' then it's heavy though. 99% of the time if you get killed by a heavy it's your fault, the few edge cases are random crit laser beams and scunts being mad at the natascha for existing despite it being a shit weapon.
No other class is even in the running though
>scout: fuck off, stop harassing me and moving around so much
>soldier: no skill no aim shoot at feet man
>pyro: self explanatory
>demo: stickies
>engi: turtling
>sniper: self-explanatory
>spy: i got tricked and now I'm mad
Not saying those are all justified, they're just what make people mad.
I want there to be a real counter to VAC (melee hardly counts in my head)
If Gas Passer, Jarate or even Marked For Death could nullify defense boosts that would be plenty fine
I feel as though it's fundamentally flawed unlock. Either you leave it as-is and it stays overpowered and annoying or you nerf it and it becomes useless. I don't feel like numbers tweaks are enough to really fix it. Only thing I can think of is just overall it to something else entirely. If you want to keep the spirit of it, maybe change the effect to something like
>healing target gains 15% damage resistance (global)
>uber provides 90% damage resistance to both target and medic
>(maybe) 15% slower heal and overheal rate
You pretty much gut the whole mechanic of the weapon but it becomes closer to a sidegrade of the normal medigun. You go from a full 100% immunity uber to only 90% for the added bonus of your healing target taking less damage. Not sure if it needs the slower heal rate or not, the nerfed uber might be enough to balance it out.
There's probably a smarter way to do it while keeping the mechanic which I'd prefer to do since it's at least interesting. I just don't see how to do that without the changes amounting to numbers tweaks which - again - fundamentally cannot fix the weapon.
VAC gains Uber very quickly and kind of relies on it for dealing with any sort of burst damage, it could make sense if your Uber was drained based on incoming damage resisted OR could only charge based on resisting that specific damage type. Anyway, if there's incentive to not resist damage, it would force him to strictly heal (without resistance) to build Ubers, leaving him vulnerable.
Another idea is making him more vulnerable to un-resisted types, or even making him always take minicrits from melee.
All of the classes if played well cause major salt. That’s a key factor in the game. If you play good enough against another player your character will auto-taunt to generate more salt. Best to just chug it down.
Outside of Ganker Soldier
On Ganker Heavy
It's crazy that they gave ambassador range dependent crits but not the sniper rifle.
If a sniper is going to commit to a sightline and be vulnerable for the duration of a charge, they should at least be able to drop a medic. That being said if we dropped base damage to 45 for a quickscope crit at 135, while still charging up to 150/450, it would fix a lot of problems with the class. Right now he is most broken by modern map design giving him huge hard to contest sightlines. OG maps don't have a sniper problem outside 2fort. 135 quickscope stops him from punishing medic peeks with zero prep or commitment, giving medic breathing room to coordinate pushes, but still lets him countersnipe and punish classes that have no business getting sniped.
If scout is sniped he has bad movement
If engie is sniped his nest is in a shit spot or he's not actively supporting his team by entering sightlines
If spy is sniped he's either really bad or really unlucky
lmao Ganker is retarded
People like you are always the biggest shitters. I hope you get better at video games soon so you can understand nuanced suggestions instead of acting like a baby.
>comparing a slight base damage nerf to relieve medics of pressure to an 80% ammo nerf
You're right, Ganker IS retarded.
heres the thing, I actually don't have that much of a problem with quick scope headshot doing 150. don't get me wrong i do think it needs a nerf of some kind but do feel that a sniper who can hit headshots consistently and not get tunnel vision is just a player with skill in that class and is no more broken or unkillable than a skilled player with another class (ok maybe more depending on the teams and the map). where as a fully charged body shot is someone oneshoting someone for waiting for a bit behind cover and hiting 1 of 5/9 classes anywhere on the body (this is especially broken on the bazaar bargain and the machina i guess)
also im a scunt who can respect a sniper who headshots me but gets extremity annoyed and seeth when i die to a body shot
Time spent charged is time not spent killing people. The opportunity cost of charging a bodyshot is high enough that I believe it earns a medic drop, because quickscoping, while harder, is far more efficient.
i guess i can get behind that thought somewhat,
still what are your thoughts on body shots with the bazaar bargain and the machina?
>hurhur just keep him exactly the same...but on a cooldown!
you retards belong in overwatch. You'd still complain about the class even if your own changes were added.
Just give all rifles 5 ammo in reserve. Then he can still do what he always does, but has to stop to get ammo more often. Good snipers that don't miss will still have to get ammo, creating more downtime.
Maybe 20 or 15 instead
Sniper thread
Sniper thread
Sniper thread
Sniper thread
Random crits thread
Sniper thread
Nerfs thread
Sniper thread
These are the only topics left to discuss with this game, other than screaming at shitty hats and crying like a bitch when the game gets flooded with bots again.
Somehow make sniper less resistant to damage falloff
Sniper is fine because this is an objective based game. He uses a bolt action rifle so he's only getting a kill every 1 - 3 seconds even if he's a literal spinbot, and the SMG or jaratewhacker isn't going to solo an enemy push onto the point. Undeniably the class is an even bigger moron than Demoman but if a Sniper is a problem then there's an obvious solution in veering wide around the conflict zone, ending up out of his sightlines and beating him to death.
I have nothing but respect for good Demomen.
Fuck Demoknights tho
Stickyspamming at it's most retarded level still takes more effort than walking at the enemy with 200+ health, the fastest mobility in the game and swords that can 2 - 3 shot most classes with extended melee range and an option to get closer with the ability for one hit kills.
Good demos or scunts are a fucking terror to play against but it take so much effort to git gud at those classes that you can't help but respect them
The different playstyles of demoman are so varied depending on his weapon choice
>stock
Is stock
>scores
Is grenademan with a minefield
>targe
Tanky grenademan
>screen
Melee grenademan
>jumper or tide turner
Flying grenademan
>quickies
normal airbursts but faster and long range
>base jumper
Boeing B29
>boots
A retard
maybe it's because demoman is my second most played class
maybe it's because I hate getting one-shot melee crit by someone I cannot see or really even hear as he rounds a corner with the booties and tide turner
but I really fucking hate demoknight. Every bottle crit or axtinguisher kill I get on them makes me feel good.
1 sec firing delay after scoping in
there fixed
Charging should increase accuracy instead of damage with only fully charged shots being perfectly accurate.
I agree with this. Every other gun in the game has RNG based accuracy except the sniper rifle.
Problem is not sniper, problem is wide empty maps that were made before almost every weapon in the game that were useful against sniper were nerfed, since then a lot of new maps that got added have same problem with big empty space and sightlines on chokepoints, which creates the whole sniper should be nefred argument, but to be honest, sniper can be easily countered by most classes, even heavy, minimal awareness of your surroundings and communication with your team can always solve sniper problem regardless of the weapon you wield
it should do 300
BOOM
headshot.
Sniper should be removed from the game entirely. He just makes every game less fun and does not contribute to balance.
I remember watching an interesting video about Sniper's impact in medium skilled games and the overall change was almost non existant if he was banned.
TF3 should balance Sniper and Spy by fusing them together into a new character called Spyper, which is just a Sniper with less damage overall but with more mobility, plus invisibility and disguise.
the point is to zone the enemy team and run away when they get close.
>Spyper,
sniper is not overpowered hes just a class is annoying to die to cause he stays far away from team fights but can still kill you with little risk to him
so poorly designed
He's the only class that doesn't have to go to the frontline to be effective, and his only real counter is a mirror.
>headshots minicrit unless fully charged
>full charge headshots crit
fixed
I agree in theory but this would fuck over the quick scope playstyle, and I don't like the idea of screwing over an entire playstyle, especially a popular one.. They would have to redo at least one of the rifles to be focused on quickscopes (never ever happening)
i want the iron bomber, hitmans heatmaker, degreaser, and panic attack to be completely reworked into something new because i dont see any use for them besides being stock with placebo level difference
*fixes sniper*
youre welcome
i will headshot you
not intentionally, and you probably were not who i was aiming at but i will headshot you
tfw 25,000 kills with this based weapon
I'd argue in a lot of scenarios it takes a lot more skill than stock sniper, but if anyone is in melee range you are almost guaranteed a free headshot
there is nothing like watching a demoman turn the corner in the turbine vents or a heavy leap from the 2fort battlements on the bridge then immediately get pelted with arrows
It's wild to me that so many people bitch about Sniper, who hardly ever singlehandedly wins games, when a halfway decent Heavy in any pub lobby can park himself on the cart and go 45:0 for 6 rounds in a row. I really dislike the idea of a class with legitimately only 1-2 true counters. You either pray someone is running Machina and the Heavy is stupid enough to linger in Sniper lines, or pray there's a Spy that always stabs the Heavy first because he will just flip a 180 the second he hears a scream. I wish they'd reduce his max health by 50, it would allow like a dozen more loadouts to actually deal with him.
yes I'm mad because all my main loadouts cannot deal with a constantly overhealed Heavy even when I get crits
Have you tried killing the medic before the heavy?
Sniper nerf is the least of my want when TF2 is literally abandoned with lazy weapon balances that killed fun weapons to shit.
I don't care what fucking cope and bargaining a Sniperfag has to offer. Shit class that even the devs regret.
I never really was on your si-
>Gets set on fire just walking past a pyro while disguised
>Pelted with bullets the second they round a corner while disguised
>Get easily tracked because voicelines show up as your actual username and team color
>Misses 4 mid ranged shots with the revolver because of the horrendous spread
>Crit wrenched in the back of the head by a spychecking engineer leaving spawn
>Bumps into an enemy and get shot dead
>Backstabs a single target after dying 7 times only to immediately get trounced by the rest of the team
>Gets doubled piped even while using the dead ringer because it's so predictable at this point of the game's lifespan
>Pinged by hitscan while invisible and gets killed
>Killed instantly by a soldier rocket jumping next to them
>Misses a backstab because the victim's ping was 2 points higher
How do you even fix the spy? A really, really good spy can shut down a game much easier and comprehensively than a sniper but any spy not in that top 10/1% of spies is fucking worthless on every level. Every other class can operate at some sort of compentency level no matter the skill level of the player, spy is fucking worthless unless you know the ins and out of the class. Just buffing him outright will make said 10/1% of spy players even more smothering.
instantly by a soldier rocket jumping next to them
that one is my favorite. especially when it's a crocket
>gets 4-6 points per kill for no reason and topscores anyway
I guess that was Valve's answer.
I think if I had to try a solution I might make Dead Ringer a global passive for Spy somehow, though drastically reducing the defense and speed it provides and allow the actual DR to give those bonuses. It would also be interesting if one of the watches didn't blink when you got shot or bumped an enemy, might be okay on Cloak and Dagger.
>How do you even fix the spy?
A good start would be fixing the dogshit melee hitreg in this game, if I had a penny every time a Spy blatantly face stabbed someone or had what was clearly a backstab not register, we'd all be crushed to death by pennies
Let's add some more
>Gets hit by Mad Milk/Jarate when invis
>Gets called out as a spy by a friendly heavy
>Gets called out by the enemy using VC
>Gets 1 kill on somebody who now makes it their life mission to chase you down to the ends of the earth and just sits in their base looking for you
>Die to a random crit melee when you're winning the fight and needed one more hit to win
>Enemy pyro just sits at engi's sentry nest with homewrecker
>Gets an accidental facestab and then gets kicked for backtracking false accusation
>Location is obviously revealed when enemy spawns and sees a random friendly healthbar in an odd place or they see it instantly show up out of nowhere because you just disguised
>Die by getting hit by someone that missed a shot when fighting someone else
>Get hit by random knockback effects so you die to the environment
>About to backstab an engi but to die to a telefrag because you dared step next to it
>Melee only scout runs around his base like a headless chicken spamming "Spy!" even though you've been in the game for a total of 30secs and nobody even knows you're a spy yet and nobody else on your team is a spy
pyro just sits at engi's sentry nest with homewrecker
This one is the worst, it's already hard enough to destroy a engineer's nest as a Spy if he's not completely retarded, baby-sitting Pyros makes it even worst. It's such a boring playstyle too, 90% of the time you're just sitting on your ass, blowing fire in random directions in the hope to catch some poor fucking Spy who's just passing by
only scout runs around his base like a headless chicken spamming "Spy!" even though you've been in the game for a total of 30secs and nobody even knows you're a spy yet and nobody else on your team is a spy
Literally me
>Player turns around for no reason and shoots you in the face
People have been playing the game for too long, every trick the spy has up his sleeves is part of general game knowledge now, there's no element of surprise unless you are a master social engineer. There's a reason all spy mains abuse all the most overtly broken aspects of the class, there's no other way to excel or even play effectively as spy unless you're playing against an entire lobby of fresh installs.
>get revealed to respawning enemy for 5 seconds if disguised
I never understood this change it completely fucks spy for basically no reason.
Spy has so many retarded downsides to his stealth.
>normal uncloak makes a sound you can easily hear if he's close
>always fucked over by being body blocked or momentarily blocking someone while cloaked
>spychecking is rampant and effective
>random projectiles can hit you unintentionally whenever
>no reliable recourse if detected to either flee or fight
>shimmers when taking damage while cloaked
>dead ringer doesn't leave a believable ragdoll behind and still fucks you over with a LOUD uncloak
>has no melee crit which isn't backstab
>limited space to work with and often have to pass hot chokes to get anywhere
>have to position himself within cloak timer unless sitting still with the other cloak
>at best, 1/10 attempts, or less, kills 1-3 people and zaps a turret or a teleporter before geting blown to bits over a time of 4-10 minutes
They really don't like instant kill classes that take skill to use at all. Other than Sniper of course.
Spy just seems hard to balance and like he'd be incredibly aids to deal with if he was actually good.
It's decently balanced by the fact that the more spies there are the worse they perform.
Letting him actually be silent and move past enemy hitboxes while cloaked would still leave him extremely vulnerable to any "just turn around sometimes" and random fire + AoEs. The maps are generally too tight and doesn't allow a millisecond of "why is that dude running the wrong direction?" without being spychecked. It's 90% luck and "how blind is the enemy" rather than using your tools right.
Problem with ever buffing spy is that really good spy's are the absolute fucking worse things to play against.
Just for once I’d like a fun TF2 thread rather than Ganker bitching and making ridiculous pipedream adjustments to the game that won’t happen
Demo main here giving a reminder if you want to actually delete Sniper from the game or completely change the fundamentals of how his class works you're LITERALLY worse than compmorons
compfags at least know nobody else wants to play their version of TF2 so they make their own servers and plugins and stay in their little cuck corner but the people that want Sniper changed want to force this to literally everybody that plays the game
There is nothing wrong with a Sniper being rewarded for killing you if he has aim, the only reason people get upset at Snipers nowadays is all the shit sniper mains either stopped playing or got good (eventually)
A good scout with good aim and movement will never have a problem two shotting a Sniper and avoid getting hit
A good soldier will do unpredictable bombs and know how to rocket jump properly so they don't get airshot
A good pyro will either take routes to avoid sniper sightlines and then nuke him with combos or reflect an arrow
A good demo will either bomb, spam the sniper to force him to move with rollers/sticks
A good demoknight will just trimp to the sniper's location in a way to avoid getting airshot and would not charge in a straight line
A good heavy will avoid sightlines, use voice commands so his hand covers his head, and mix up movement
A good engi has wrangler or can at least harass with rescue ranger
A good medic will crossbow and pay attention to where the sniper is looking since he knows he's a key pick
A good spy will backstab, trickstab, nuke with diamondback/amby or just harass with potshots
The key point being ‘a good player’. Asking Ganker to learn the tricks and tactics of the classes and get better instead of complain pointlessly on here is never going to work.
>the only reason people get upset at Snipers nowadays is all the shit sniper mains either stopped playing or got good
I would actually argue otherwise. The vast majority of snipers are still pretty dogshit. Most people just have terrible movement.
Scrublords everywhere with their "balances".
Is it worth to get back into tf2 these days? Haven't played since late 2011. Heard something about dedicated servers too.
the strangest part about playing spy is that it will take the enemy team longer to find me and kill me if I'm disguised as one of my own teammates as opposed to one of their teammates.
>just avoid his sightlines
>"""Competitively designed""" community map
>Absolutely abysmal to play on
Clockwork.
just dodge the hitscan you retards
This but unironically.
Spin your character around, look up, look down, even turn your back to him and look straight down so he can't see your head.
You can be really fucking annoying especially with how wonky TF2's hitboxes are. People who say your movement doesn't matter against hitscan are just outing themselves as shitters. A sniper can't react to you stopping or crouching for a split second before he fires.
How to fix sniper in a non-retarded way.
>Add back random damage deviation to his shots. He can no longer routinely two shot soldiers. Fully charged bodyshots are no longer a guaranteed kill on medic.
>Remove after burn immunity on danger shield so flare gun can semi counter sniper. Add some other buff
There, you just significantly weakened sniper without completely changing his mechanics.
>only 20% damage for bodyshot
>can only headshot at full charge
That is a retarded change. You are specifically nerfing sniper for the top .1% of snipers.
Name one problem with that
Because you just made an entire class boring as shit to play and completely inaccessible unless you're already a god sniper.
name one problem with this. Sniper is the high-skill class, right?
Name one problem with only making a class playable if you are in the top .1% of players
There is none.
see
I still see no problem.
this may be stupid but why does the razor back have the no over heal by medic penalty and not the cozy camper? I have very little knowledge of high level competitive TF2 so there is probably something obvious i am missing as to why that is but just based on the idea of
"the cozy camper would trade off better healing from medics in exchange for health regen and the razor back would have some other downside?"
I don't know the exact specifics of why the razorback was rebalanced in this specific way, but I can follow the logic of if sniper is immune to backstabs, he has to remain a perma 125 hp class and thus remain vulnerable to incoming spam, enemy sniper quickscopes and even the revolver
oh that actually makes sense an over healed razorback sniper would be immune to backstabs ,headshots and survive a lot of other stuff
https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/2/21/Tf2-comment020.mp3
>The low damage both while un-zoomed and at the initial zoom ensures that Snipers can't kill opponents with impromptu snap fire.
Despite coming from a dev, this has always been blatantly false, a Sniper can instantly deal 150 damage with a scoped shot and kill 5/9 classes.
And this was even before the 2008 change where it takes 200 ms before a scoped shot can crit.
Really makes ya think
>it takes 200 ms before a scoped shot can crit.
what? I have 3k hours and didn't know that, and I'm a god at sniper
From the wiki
>February 14, 2008 Patch
>Added a small delay (200 ms) before a zoomed Sniper shot can get a critical hit.
ah I see, yeah that makes sense
I think this mainly to stop you from firing while the scope-in animation is still occurring
I used to just assume the hitboxes were dogshit.
>NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! YOUR WEAPON CAN'T BE FUN OR EASY TO USE!! IT HAS TO METICULOULSY BALANCED TO THE POINT IT'S ONLY VIABLE TO A HYPER AUTISTIC SPERG IN THEIR EARLY 20'S!!! NOTHING IS ALLOWED TO BE IMPLEMENTED WITHOUT A SKILL FLOOR IN THE LOWER STRATOSPHERE!!!11!1
gays like you fucking ruined the game, go play fucking Overwatch if you want things to be so over balanced the game is no longer fun.
fucking META-Fags are the worst
hehe gibs go brrrrrrrrrrr
give him only 12 max ammo
all shots leave a faint team colored tracer
That's nice OP, but you wanna know something interesting?
YORE
UGLEH
https://youtu.be/jnE9QLkNi6Y
you fix spy by giving the knife a shorter range and normal melee delay. You also get rid of the dead ringer damage reduction, it should just leave him at 1 health if the damage is over his current health pool
>Fix the spy by nerfing him even further
might as well give him normal melee damage at least then
I still think it's funny people got so upset over sniper that they kept posting evidence that he wasn't impacting games as proof he could be removed without realizing it was actually proving he wasn't that big of a problem.
I miss playing Sniper with piss rifle and the croc set making me immune to dying to headshots.
So many angry snipers when I show nothing but my head and then body them with a charged shot.
?si=tHWoQBkI6oMZwQu9&t=49
What was the entire enemy team supposed to actually do about the sniper slowly walking past all of them?
you can see at 1:13, he's being dominated by 4 people
I was joking but I guess I can't really blame you for not catching it since just glancing at the comments it's full of people using it to complain how broken he is.
>all players in his clips have bot level movement by walking in straight lines and awful dm that they miss a sniper at point blank range and have the reaction and awareness of a dead goldfish
hmmm...yep...we need to delete sniper from the game or at least completely change how he headshots
>16 year old game is still alive enough to generate balance discussion
Gaben, I kneel
I think it's a bit of a stretch to call this balance discussion when it's just shitters outing themselves as being as garbage at playing the game like joze.gonzales.2004 and so they want to completely change it so it caters to them
There is literally zero (0) counter-argument for this image.
meanwhile, in an alternate universe
medic has dragged this game down for 15 years but you Ganker kiddies arent ready for that redpill
Wouldn't be so bad if any other class could do relevant team healing.dispensers are good but if they had twice as fast erection time or worked while being carried that would be amazing.
Medic is an obvious redpill
The real redpill is that Sniper and Soldier aren't the best classes in the game, it's actually Scout but Ganker's not ready for that redpill
this post is a knower, scout controls the game at high levels
>puts a lvl1 sentry anywhere near your vicinity
>scout rages in chat for the entire game
>drinks bonk and runs past sentry ignoring it
>drinks bonk and makes sentry kill the engi then circle strafes the sentry on top
>uses FaN jump to ignore sentry
>uses Soda Popper jumps to ignore sentry
>uses Atomizer/Basher to ignore sentry
>pistols sentry out of it's range
>aggressively corner peeks sentry and uses milk/pocket pistol to get hp back
>gets overhealed and picks engi then gets hp and destroys sentry
no otha' class gonna do dat
You forgot the Shortstop, the ultimate "fuck you" anti sentry weapon
also
>Uses Basher to ignore sentry
Self inflict stagger mid air to bypass sentry range?
ya
God was there any people voicing their opinions on Soldier?,He's so fucking bullshit because splash guaranteed you 70/30 win against any class at close/medium range,just fuckig nerf his blast radius or something.
Soldier is fucking annoying but at least the reliable, easy to pick up counter to Soldier wasn't literally just another Soldier.
>Can be completely shut down by the average [DATA MISSING]
>Snipermains reveals themselves as the Soldier Whiners
It makes so much sense now.
>Scout
Scout has many counters to sentries and a good one does not get shut down by them at all
>Spy
He gets shutdown by literally everything and everything so he has multiple hardcounters not just pyro
>Pyro
Literally shutdown by anything hitscan which multiple classes have access to
Strong knockbacks like loose cannon also cuck pyro because he can't even airblast it when the demo has proper timing
>Heavy
...and Scout that runs circles around him and ignores Natascha, Soldier just gets to high ground and spams rockets, Demo with stickies, and Sentries unless he's ubered
>Medic
Every class counters Medic because he has the lowest form of damage in the game to the point most Medics would rather gamble with a lucky melee crit than use their primary which makes them even easier to kill
>Engi
Same as Medic, engi can be easily killed by every class but at least he can kill medics
Only thing that protects engi is a sentry
>Demo
Scout can easily dodge his explosives, Pyro has airblast, Short Circuit literally deletes his projectiles, Wrangler cucks explosives, Vaccinator explosive resistance, Demoknights with targe/screen have large explosive resistance
>Soldier
Literally copy paste of demo
>sn*perfag insisting left clicking beyond the range of any danger is high skill
Medic wrote this post.
If scout wrote it, he would of gone:
"OP PLEASE NERF THIS gay HE IS SUCH A"
Everyone who says le straight lines is admitting the only counter to sniper is jump around like a spaz and hope he misses
If you see a sniper scope in you've already died
Respecting a good snipers sightlines is paramount to not getting your head blown off but I will submit that a lot of maps(especially the older ones) have god awful sightlines.
Badwater & Upward in particular are just egregious.
>the only counter to sniper is jump around like a spaz and hope he misses
It's almost like when someone's aiming at you that you should use movement to throw off their aim.
sniper main here, wanna give off a couple changes that can actually hold him back
>Headshots now do 125 dmg at 0% charge instead of 150
>Sniper reload is 2 sec instead of 1.5
>Headshot delay is now 0.5 instead of 0.2
>Charge time is 5 sec instead of 3.3
>Aimpunch while scoped in is based on distance, so close range would be the one we have in game but a little stronger, and from far away it's way more severe
Other option for the last change: >Charge decreases as you get shot, and scales based on distance as well. So like at close range if you got hit it'd be like 5-10% based on damage, but from longer range it could be 20-35%. Makes it so that if you're a Soldier or Heavy for example and you see a sniper, shooting him with a shotgun will do like 3 damage, but will really mess with his aim and charge, giving you more time to move around.
This does make sniper more slow to play as, but I'm fine with that. In exchange for specializing in a long range class in a close range game, you should have to give up more time to kill. The longer charge and slow reloading emphasizes making your shots count, and the aimpunch gives you a way to interact with snipers from long range. 125 is still a lot, but I think it makes sense for all the classes you could one shot. Getting sniped as scout or engi could be annoying, but Scouts could always flank, and engis shouldn't really be out in the open all to much, since your buildings can be shot from out of range anyways. Sniper is self explanatory, and Spies can at least go invis and backstab snipers or shoot him. This also helps classes like medic or heavy, since now you have to charge for a bit to headshot him, and heavies can now tank 2 headshots, albeit with 25 health. Might even buff overhealed patients to since now you can't quickscope them in 2 shots like you used to.
>Headshots now do 125 dmg at 0% charge instead of 150
Just do this and alot of peoples issue with Sniper disappears. His ability to 1 tap 5 out of 9 classes instantly at any range is what makes him such bullshit to play against.
also
>make getting headshot display a HEADSHOT message instead of CRITICAL HIT. also make the size of the text go bigger the more damage you do.
might make sniper more of a support class, since now you could help your teammates by headshotting someone and it'll let them know he's weak
What about all of these plus reverse damage ramp up?
He stays just as effective at long ranges, like he's supposed to, but could prevent close range flickshots and cap his effectiveness on close range maps putting him into a real supporting role. Now a player can take the potentially risky route of beelining towards the sniper without guaranteeing their death, this also puts SMGs in a more useful position.
could probably work, even if it sounds a bit silly for a sniper rifle.
Make close range headshots do like 75 dmg so you could still finish off wounded enemies, but it doesn't stop fully healed spies or scouts from getting close to you
90% of Sniper mains use cheats. They do this because they know Valve won't do anything about it.
90% of sniper mains aren't nearly good enough to be cheating.
>snipers need entire item to baby them from respecting sightlines
>demand you respect theirs and bawl at the suggestion of a nerf over a decade after the last balance change
>walking to battlements
>BANG! I'm dead
>respawn
>walking to battlements
>BANG! I'm dead
>respawn
>walking to battlements
>change up my movement so I'm not walking directly into a sniper's sightlines
>get to battlements
Balance fix for sniper:
Make it where they are forced to stand still for at least .5 seconds while charging
And
Can only charge while planted
>thinking anyone cares what a -nocrit seething retard thinks about balance changes
anyone who thinks sniper is op is a fucking baby
Wow you're so good at the game for only playing on servers with 8 year old Brazilians for you to dunk on. So impressive when you narrowly win a duel against some kid getting 15fps on a laptop with no mouse
>complain about snipers
>when you could just get a crit rocket in his general direction and remove him from the sightline
maybe 8 year olds can't walk 5 steps out of the way to dodge a rocket traveling from halfway across the map but people who aren't complete invalids do
When I see a good sniper, I stick to revolver spy. I uncloak from a distance, shoot him once, and cloak again. After he gives up, I uncloak again, and shoot him again. I want to waste as much of his time as possible. I don't care about kills, I don't care about points. I just want to make your experience as annoying as humanly possible.
Same but also to engis on ctf_well
you are a man of integrity
What are hours supposed to prove? There are people with thousands of hours that are dogshit compared to people with a couple hundred.
it's a ego contest
I get that it's just dick measuring but I don't get dick measuring when your only evidence is basically posting the ruler and saying it could be anywhere between 2 inches and 12. Like, I'd unironically take proof that you're GE in CS as better evidence that you're good at TF2 than just your hours in TF2.
That's because their shitters at the game that are too deeply trapped in their egos to listen to each other so they're stuck in an endless shitflinging
notice that when the hours got posted nothing even changed, that's because ultimately they already knew hours are irrelevant
the only thing that can actually show your skill is a comp medal and even then that would have to be in a relevant league at a high div in at least 1st - 3rd but if that gets posted then the shitposting will change to >compfag spam
so yea it's just an ego fight
comp medals mean fuckall too since comp isn't representative of the way the game is actually played
I'm the one that posted it and I agree.
online dick measuring contest, like people who post achievements
post yours, bro
>that many hours on pyro
explain yourself
based machina chad. you'd only be more based if you were a piss sniper
Farming Soldier salt
Exhibit A
Not even soldier main, pyro shitter, I just love it when your brainless fucks walk right into my trap and die instantly
>die to sticky
>scorch shot/detonator every corner I see
>demofag fires 4 pills off in anger
>every corner
>he doesn't check the ceiling
As expected of braindamaged pyromain
one of my favorite things to do in game is just go stock demoman, place a trap in a place someone would rarely look, then just stand there in a corner, then when i blow my victim up i do the laugh taunt and try not to move until the killcam ends
have a nice day
It really doesn't prove anything but there isn't much way to demonstrate you know anything beyond just textdumping which by then the ADHD fags will just tl;dr anyway
typically posting the medal you get when you first installed the game is a better indicator than hours played. you'd know to take someone's opinion more or less seriously if they joined after the f2p update
thanks for posting your hours, that explains the autistic breakdown and the absolute hornets nest of buzzwords in your post.
>yes i think sniper needs to be nerfed
>why yes i do only play pubs, how did you know?
every time
I will use the Machina and I will bodyshot you every chance I get.
*has an all lowercase name and plays only scout/sniper/soldier*
bro i am le epic comp player 🙂
ITT: we observe the life cycle
Ganker pubscrub life cycle
>hear about comp
>feel good about their skills
>join a lobby, gets stomped mercilessly
>now whenever they see a compchad they seethe endlessly and cry in tf2 threads
>leaves light classes on 25 health, which more or less dies to any attack
great nerf bro
TF2 is dead, it's time to move on to the superior multiplayer Valve shooter AKA Left 4 Dead 2
>Fully mod supported with a large amount to choose from
>Consistent playerbase that isn't filled with bots
>No garden gnome cosmetics, if you want to change the appearance of someone you download a mod, no transactions required
>A well programmed game director ensures that almost every game you play is different than the last, promoting replayability
>even if you get bored of playing the same campaign maps all the time, there are plenty of great custom maps to choose from
>has one of the most advanced gore systems in a vidya
>Versus still makes gays and shitters seethe to this day
The Versus playerbase has been so bad lately that I had to stop playing. Pretty sure a bunch of these guys haven't even done one run of the normal campaigns before hopping in
>lately
bro they've been bad since launch
honestly the best way to tell at this point is to see how hard people shit on sniper any particular class, the harder they shit the worse of a player they are
>honestly the best way to tell at this point is to see how hard people shit on sniper any particular class, the harder they shit the worse of a player they are
I can't figure out what this is trying to say
Yawn, get better material
First L4D is still superior
but what about the ARTIFACT fanbase?
I miss artifact schizo, perhaps he finally offed himself when he saw how on steam 20th anniversary valve "forgot" about his game
>gunplay is tremendously boring
>gunplay is tremendously fun
NERF SOLDIER
Anons, I plan on running my mvm tour farm again before halloween hits, do any of you care to share cool class build tip or strat that is fun to use?
Now that the thread's slowed down, thoughts on the quality of the shitposting ITT anon?
Some of y'all have 3000+ hours but act like.a kid with 30
hitting headshots in TF2 is not nearly as easy as shitty games like call of duty, I think after 25 years of being free kills sniper mains deserve some glory