Alright, i want some real takes on DnD5e.
What this system has besides low entry barrier, and availability to homebrew it?
Alright, i want some real takes on DnD5e.
Alright, i want some real takes on DnD5e.
What this system has besides low entry barrier, and availability to homebrew it?
A large playerbase.
>this system has low entry barrier
It doesn't even have that
/thread
>Free core rules
>Brain dead easy base mechanics
>Almost no opening for decision paralysis in chargen
Explain how it's barrier for entry isn't low.
This
It does its core niche, tactical dungeon crawling, fairly well. Largely falling apart when its not doing that, but most systems have a core niche they're best at as well.
At this point it has a pretty robust catalog of official content. That content is pretty mixed in quality, but there is a lot of it. And it is, on the whole, fairly balanced. It might be a bit of a double edged sword because you have to prune options away from players to get the best results. The amount of content is even higher if you know how to convert older DnD stuff and pathfinder 1e to 5e.
>It does its core niche, tactical dungeon crawling, fairly well
It really doesn't, but people like repeating that because they think a game that roughly emulates the vague feel of what D&D should be, because it's got all the proper nouns, must be doing something right.
This is by far D&D 5e's best quality and the one regard in which it's inarguably superior to every single other RPG.
If you want to play any tabletop game at all and just need players, 5e is your best bet.
Core mechanic is pretty easy. D20+modifier vs TN, roll twice if favorable/unfavorable conditions: higher roll if favorable, lower if unfavorable. That's a very firm foundation to build from.
Also, no game has ever gone through as much playtesting. Sure, that made it bland, but it's also extremely inoffensive and has most of its sharp edges filed off, to the point where even the worst complaints against the system always feel like the person is really forcing themselves to come up with reasons to hate it. You can reliably bring it to the table and run a game with it, a solid 2nd pick if everyone can't agree on a first.
>Also, no game has ever gone through as much playtesting.
While probably true, this is ultimately irrelevant, seeing as they ditched the majority of their playtest material in favor of copy-pasting 3.5
>it's also extremely inoffensive
Not a problem most RPGs have at all
>the worst complaints against the system always feel like the person is really forcing themselves to come up with reasons to hate it
Lmao
> You can reliably bring it to the table and run a game with it, a solid 2nd pick if everyone can't agree on a first.
"It is very much a product that has features and qualities" Glowing praise.
>they ditched the majority of their playtest material
That's the whole point of a playtest. What do you think they should have kept?
Fighter for example. You know the original variant that was actually interesting.
> in favor of copy-pasting 3.5
Pretty sure that’s because that’s what the bulk of playtesters ultimately wanted: 3e, but with smaller numbers and fewer trap options.
>Not a problem most RPGs have at all
Most RPGs can't even get past the sales pitch phase. They don't even have enough of a hook for people to care enough to find any part offensive.
Not "offensive" in the PC manner, mind you, just against their personal tastes. That's the tradeoff, where most games are either too bland for anyone to care about them, or they have something special that makes them somewhat divisive and more niche.
>even the worst complaints against the system always feel like the person is really forcing themselves to come up with reasons to hate it
With enough bad faith, anything can give any sort of feeling.
> even the worst complaints against the system always feel like the person is really forcing themselves to come up with reasons to hate it
I don't even know if it is trolling with stupidity or paid shilling at this point.
>Core mechanic is pretty easy. D20+modifier vs TN
that's d20 mechanic not 5e exclusive
Is there really a point to reading just the first part of a sentence and then just
Simple core resolution mechanic that is easy to adjudicate for GMs and easy to understand for both GMs and players.
Classes cover a broad set of archetypes in medieval fantasy, so easy to have an understanding of what you're playing.
Dozens of published settings to draw from and for you to put your own stuff in.
Pop cultural awareness.
>and availability to homebrew it
That's literally every rulesystem in existence. Also stop making one thread after another you fucking spastic, this is a (non) question you could get an easy answer in the 5e general but you keep starting 5e threads because of your retarded crusade against "trolls" but you're so fucking transparent it's painful to withstand.
>Using "spastic" as an insult
1994 called, there's an outstanding product recall on your brain.
Seriously? This is your best retort against that post? It's not even an ad hominem, this is sitcom gay token tier of retort. Pathetic.
It's a good system if you have trouble sleeping. Works much better than pills and no danger to your kidneys.
It’s the first RPG I’ve played where my thief character feels like an actual thief, and not a dungeon-exploring assassin who moonlights in larceny.
4E's Rogue did it better.
No, 4e was the worst of the lot for making me feel more like an assassin/agility duelist rather than a thief. All those combat powers?
No, 5e does it right. Rogues get one direct combat ability, Sneak Attack. It's simple and it scales well as you level, and there will rarely be a combat in which you can't use it. But the workhorse feature of the class isn't Sneak Attack, it's Cunning Action and the ability to Dash, Disengage, and Hide as a bonus action all day every day, and then Thief throwing in Fast Hands to add disabling traps, opening locks, picking pockets, and using objects as a bonus action on top of that, plus Second-Story Work making you climb like a motherfucker (90 ft in 6 seconds with Move/Dash/Dash, which makes you something like 3-4 times faster than the world record in the real world) and jump better than your Strength might otherwise suggest you can.
THOSE are the workhorse features, along with Expertise. THOSE three, together, add up to making me feel more like Garrett then anything in 2e, 3e, or 4e ever managed.
I think you should have paid better attention to what you did in 4E because very little of that is new.
Garrett's deal was being unnaturally stealthy due to being trained by the Keepers, not super mobility or jumping or climbing or picking locks ultra fast. 4E's Chameleon or Shadow Stride are more Garrett than any of that.
>or picking locks ultra fast
You know in the real world picking a lock actually takes several minutes even for an expert, right?
That being said Garrett just popped into my head as the Platonic ideal of what I'm talking about, a thief who is actually trying to AVOID combat, who's got tons of useful skills and abilities but who is more or less screwed if he has to deal with even two or three guys in an empty white well-lit room.
4e, being hyperfocused on combat, gave you a LOT of combat options as a Rogue whether you wanted them or not. A 10th level character has 2 at-wills, 3 encounters, 3 dailies, all of them combat focused; and just 3 utility exploits.
Compare/contrast the 5e Rogue (thief). By 10th level I've only got two outright combat abilities (Sneak Attack and Uncanny Dodge), though they're good enough to see me through to 20th level if I want since they scale with my level. But everything else is either has plenty of noncombat uses (evasion, natch), or is almost exclusively for out-of-combat stuff (Thieves' Cant, the two instances of Expertise). This includes every one of the Thief archetype's features save Thief's Reflexes, which isn't even attained until 17th level anyway.
A 10th level Rogue in 4e was getting powers like Trick Strike and Clever Riposte and Deadly Positioning and so on. It's all combat, combat, combat. Even some of the Utilities are focused on combat, like Close Quarters and Ignoble Escape.
Like I said, the net result is to make me feel like a dungeon-delving assassin or dexterous duelist who moonlights in larceny. Presentation can make a Hell of a difference. It's something 4e never quite mastered.
I never felt that. 4E felt like exactly what you'd get out of someone who can't fight well in a straight fight and has to rely on a constant stream of different dirty tricks to keep up, and that is literally what I wanted long before 4E was in development.
>You know in the real world picking a lock actually takes several minutes even for an expert, right?
There's over a thousand videos from the lockpicking lawyer that laughs in your face. Even the most expensive locks in the world can be busted open with some blunt force or a bit of quick pin raking that even a toddler can learn.
And those are extremely modern locks at that.
It actually doesn't have a low barrier of entry. Plenty of ttrpgs have lower prices and easier entry.
No game has more assistance. Free beginner rules you can download, and endless advice and videos on the internet, with more added every day. You can't take three steps without tripping over someone telling you thirty ways to start playing D&D.
That's true for most ttrpgs. There's free stuff for generic gm help everywhere and plenty of free content and rules
No game has more advice more readily available. Everything from starting the game to deep examinations of its most niche features. Most games do try to help people learn them, sure, but nowhere even close to the level of 5e, largely thanks to it being not just a community effort, but a lucrative community effort.
Except call of cthulhu of course
Sure.
You're wrong, but it's not worth arguing the point.
>Gets proven wrong
Acshully it's not worth arguing anymore smug jpg
Making a statement without any supporting evidence isn't proving anything, especially when a quick search on any platform would prove you wrong. More importantly though, even if you were right, 5e coming in 2nd place for once in some category wouldn't really be that big of a deal, since 2nd place is still quite good.
If believing more people write and create content about CoC than 5e makes you feel better, go for it. I don't even know what world you live in where that kind of thinking could even occur, but you're free to live in it.
Not him but you haven't given a single shred of evidence either so stop being a prick
Isn't it funny that anytime an anon asks for proof they don't have a single bit themselves. Haha
...are you serious.
Pick a platform. Youtube, Google, wikis, RPG websites/stores, whatever. Literally anything. Do any search you like, your pick.
They are all going to be so overwhelmed by 5e content compared to any other (non-d&d) game that I don't know how this is supposed to be a point of contention.
Is it the Mormons? Do Mormons only play CoC or something? Did people from Utah finally figure out how to get on the internet, but still haven't figured out how to do basic things like google searches?
> overwhelmed by 5e content
There are more 3.5e and AD&D content. Farther more, what even type of content we are speaking about? Since when GM or players need some GB of ilusive content to play a TTRPG? Can you eleborate what 5e content one need?
Ok but post it. Post the proof you demand of me. Post comparitively that 5e has more than all of CoC
How the fuck anyone is supposed to post you bazillion of links, you dumb fucking retard? Do you even know how search engine results look like, or are too big of a troglodyte for that?
So you aren't willing to post proof! According to you that means your wrong. Because that's exactly what you asked of me. Are all 5e fans bad faith debaters or just you?
Want me to walk you over to youtube?
You're probably going to be surprised by how much 5e content their actually is there. Sure, there's also some CoC stuff, but I really don't think we'd be having this argument if you actually saw just how much advice people have poured out for 5e. Guides on classes, tips for monsters, whole game sessions, recipes, crafts, endless "how to start playing 5e" tutorials, countless "Check out my stupid ass kickstarter for half-baked 5e compatible content" sales pitch videos, it's absolutely fucking disgusting.
I didn't want to be the one to pick the criteria because I'd really have no reason not to pick the most obvious demonstration of just how ludicrous the amount of advice for 5e people are willing to give out, but it seems like you need a bit of a shock to really appreciate just how overwhelming it can be at times. Even just do a neutral search for RPGs and see how many videos will assume you're asking about 5e (after assuming you want a video game first).
Ok I'll low ball you. Post 5 different channels. Can you do that shill?
>Post 5 different channels.
You can't be serious.
5?
Tell me honestly, are you just fucking with me? Are you just trying to waste my time, asking me to get you 5 channels you could find yourself in half a minute?
Here's the deal. Upload a picture of your game collection, and I'll post 5 youtube channels with 5e content.
Lmao you had to move the goalposts?
The fact you aren't willing to do the least effort to prove your point shows how much of a shit poster you have. Also I'd post it but let's be honest you'd just tell me I got it off of google or some shit
Quit fucking with me. Easy trade.
Well I posted that decades of coc content is more than 5es, then you aped out so... You first?
I watched them all. 60% of these videos recommend not to play D&D.
Will you post your meaningless guidline once again in this thread?
>I watched them all.
Oh wow. Fuck me, I thought it might be the Mormons, but it looks like the Amish have figured out how to start posting on the internet.
Do you really not appreciate how insane your claim that you've watched even a single percentage of all the 5e videos on youtube is? Holy fuck, do you imagine youtube is the size of your Amish Blockbuster, with only four VHS's you keep around to occasionally throw stones at?
Lol. First time on Ganker, boi?
Proof to me I have not. Tell me about the YouTube channels you are speaking about.
Let me begin with mine. For example, the Dungeoncraft channel. 100+ k subscribers.
100k would be considered a failure for a 5e channel. Still waitingon that game collection sperg
> 100k would be considered a failure for a 5e channel.
Then show one.
> Still waitingon that game collection sperg
Not him.
>Let me begin with mine. For example, the Dungeoncraft channel. 100+ k subscribers.
I'd like to believe that you're larping, but in case not… How's your son doing, Dan? Getting railed in the ass right now? When's the next Reviled Society video coming?
Dungeons and Discourse is pretty entertaining if you can get past the clickbait titles and thumbnails.
I tried watching Dungeons and Diversity but the guy lost me when he cried like a little bitch about there not being enough white men in the art for Planescape, a game of literally limitless potential for imagination.
Ginny Di is awesome though. Plus... Easy on the eyes.
NTA but almost all D&D content on youtube is functionally worthless and doesn't actually improve or elevate the game in any way. If the game is so fucking bereft of quality and substance that it needs hours of white noise videos where some redditor homosexual tells you how you can make THE MOST POWERFUL D&D CHARACTER EVER, aside from not being a feature of the game itself, is not some wonderful reason why the game is good.
Likewise for all the homebrew. Have you sailed that sea of slop? The DM's guild and homebrew section on DTRPG are overloaded with AI generated bullshit, 2 page "rule fixes" listed as games, random AI "art" asset packs, and shit so minimal that you'd be better off just writing your own shit instead of wading through the bottomless bog of worthless homebrew material available... Or better yet, just playing a different fucking game.
I just did a youtube search for 5e Advice and CoC advice, and it's pretty bleak.
After I then went and changed CoC to Call of Cthulu so it wouldn't just be Clash of Clans advice, it still was a pretty stark contrast. It was only like a page before it got to all those sorts of sub 1k view videos made by three people who need to put their face in every thumb.
Screen cap with today's date highlighted maybe this will finally shut up the antiwotc freaks
NGL, I would love to have consensual lesbian sex with Ginny Di.
"More" does not necessarily equate to "better". If anything, it's worse, because the bulk of material is largely a sea of dross, making it harder to find the good stuff, creating choice paralysis and splintering the playerbase.
Anyway, this entire conversation is ridiculous. 2nd edition AD&D till I die, cunt.
>If anything, it's worse
Not sure that's the case. I mean the bulk of fanmade Pokemon stuff you find online is awful too, but I don't think any Pokemon game can be called genuinely bad - certainly none of the main ones - and the constant exposure does ensure a constant influx of new players.
Mind that doesn't equate to it being "good" either, just I don't think you can conclude it's bad, either.
NTA but I think you misunderstood. CoC is objectively an easier game to run than D&D, nd while D&D needs a trillion and one videos online to help people run it, CoC teaches you everything you need within the free rules pdf on Chaosium. You can legit have multiple good sessions without even buying the "full" rulebook, and even then you only need one as opposed to D&D's 3.
I'm not going to claim I've watched every single D&D advice video, but comparing the ones I have watched to the CoC ones I have watched, the CoC ones are of substantially better quality.
> he really thinks OP is not a shill or troll and trying to answer seriously and responsibly.
>and even then you only need one as opposed to D&D's 3.
This right here completely kills the idea of D&D being accessible. 99% of RPGs are going to have absolutely everything you fucking need in a single book, with other books being extra content that is not at all necessary. D&D has 3. 3 fucking books needed to play the game.
Not only this, but some crucial things can be in splats. Like I believe rules on calculating price of magical items are in the "beholder" D&D 5e splat book.
>This right here completely kills the idea of D&D being accessible.
Minus that it's the game that consistently has the most new players.
It being popular doesn't mean it's accessible you moron.
People accessing it makes it accessible. By raw numbers, it's the most accessible game, more accessible than all other games on the market, combined and doubled or even tripled.
That's not how it fucking works you retard. That's like saying Finnegan's Wake is a more accessible book than some unknown sci-fi young adult novel from germany because more people have "accessed it"
It's fucking asinine.
Telling me that something isn't accessible when it's the most accessed really makes me understand why you do stuff like say your mother isn't accessible.
I'm not saying it's not accessible at all, or that it's the least accessible, but it is by no means the most accessible, and definitely not the most accessible simply because it's the most popular.
By raw numbers, it is demonstrably the game that is most accessed, ie. with no other criteria stated. We both understand there's more to life than raw numbers, but that's also where we stray into subjective territory.
For example, some games may be far shorter than D&D, but they're not as easy to learn because there's considerably less momentum behind actually learning them and also learning that RPGs have a complexity that exists far beyond their page count. Kind of like saying an unlocked home is more accessible than a locked one, but then also placing that unlocked home in the middle of a jungle and putting a jaguar inside. Sure, it's theoretically easier to step inside, but far fewer people would, and even just getting to it is a hassle.
Also, you may not have said it's not accessible at all, but
did.
D&D is very easy to learn. Anyone who says it's not must have sub 100 iq, because it's basically a game designed for people with 100 iq. If it's a game you've struggled with in the past, you're admitting to being not even as intelligent as the children who've easily picked up the game.
It is very easy to learn THE BASICS
THE BASICS are not the entirety of the game and there is an enormous tide of players who do not grasp the game they are playing.
I think I'm going to count you as among them.
Why is it always the people who least understand something who complain the most about other people not understanding it in the way they do?
That's a rhetorical question if you're not sure. I'm pretty sure I don't need to ask what you think the game is to know that you really have no clue and would struggle to figure out how to enjoy yourself.
Nice non-sequitur.
Thanks.
Your arguments reek of such fucking dishonesty it's legitimately baffling.
Have you played any other rpg than D&D? Legitimately?
>By raw numbers, it is demonstrably the game that is most accessed
Most ACCESSED is a nonsense criteria you've made up, but it's still not THE MOST ACCESSIBLE as the presence of many "how to" and other tutorial videos demonstrates that there is a fundamental need for players to be taught further how to play, because the books are either not as accessible or the system is not as easy to learn as it is often lauded as being.
Like, FNAF is extremely popular, but it needs tons of people making hours-long explainer videos to cover the story and lore and nonsense inside it. Popularity =/= accessibility, clarity, or ease of understanding.
We can look at the end result to determine which game is most accessible, ie. the number of people who have accessed it.
You and I both can agree that D&D is really not the most accessible game, but that's ultimately just a matter of opinion. The raw evidence indicates that whatever D&D is doing, it is doing it very, very, very, and I don't think I can stress this enough, very well in terms of getting new people to play and continue to play. If D&D was not accessible, there's no force on Earth that could have enabled it to achieve the popularity it has. Not even free blowjobs with every PH would let it achieve the unprecedented level of distribution and dominance it has if it weren't also accessible.
Also, FNAF is very accessible. You buy the game for $5 and play it on basically anything with more computing power than a toaster. While you're claiming it also has depth, which I kind of find laughable, you're talking about something very different from accessibility.
>If D&D was not accessible, there's no force on Earth that could have enabled it to achieve the popularity it has.
Man, that's a lot of words to dance around the elephant in the room: D&D succeeds the way it does purely on brand recognition, pop culture status, and because whenever anyone wants to get into TTRPGs, some braindead redditor subhuman tells them that 5e is so accessible and newbie friendly, even though those subhumans can't play the game without a VTT, a step-by-step campaign book, and D&D beyond to make their characters for them.
Anons. The rarity/scarcity of a thing is a major factor in accessibility.
Take anons analogy. Finnigans wake has been printed and reprinted in many languages over many years. One could walk to any book store and pick a copy up in their home languages. Where as some obscure German sci-fi book is probably only sold in Germany and in the German language.
No. By the definition we're actually working with a children's book is more accessible than Ulysses, no matter if Ulysses sold over 100000x more and is available in every book store while the children's book is available in exactly one. Conflating different defintions of accessible does nothing other than make you look like a retard.
Anon. What definition of "accessibility" are you using because I'm using its actual definition.
You're using the definition of availability. That is not the same thing.
>One could walk to any book store and pick a copy up in their home languages.
LOL
I'm gonna be honest I doubt Finnegans wake is even translatable.
That's not how that works.
>people are accessing something, more than anything else in its category
>"IT'S NOT ACCESSIBLE."
Holy shit, you really are retarded.
I'm right, is what I am.
You've never played the game before.
You only need the PH. The monster manual is just a list of inhuman enemies, the DM's guide is just tips and advice and tools and optional rules, none of which are absolutely necessary, they're just nice to have.
You can run the entire game from the PH alone, since that holds all the core rules and how to build a character. But, because people like fighting against monsters and not just people all the time and they also like magic items, people like the other two books. I don't even think I own a copy of either of them.
>If you just cut 2/3s of the content/make shit up, you only need the PHB!
You're a moron. D&d is about fighting monsters and getting loot, the monster and loot books are kind of important to that.
D&D is about having unprotected sex with comely elven lasses at the bequest of their fathers. You only need the PH for that.
I'd also argue that every single player needs a phb to themselves because every PC has a shitload of features and most folks aren't gonna spend time writing up notecards for every single thing. Whereas, for CoC, as long as the keeper has a rulebook, you're good.
>nd while D&D needs a trillion and one videos online to help people run it
Does it though? Like, can you show me that it's impossible to learn without outside help? I think their Essentials kits, specifically made for new players, do a pretty good job personally. What's wrong with those beginner boxes?
He's just spinning.
Game has a lot of freely accessible advice, guides, and additional content from the largest RPG community? That's actually bad!
It's basically a game to him. Figure out how to spin anything so it's actually a negative.
Free blowjob? You might get an STD!
A million dollars? You're going to have to pay taxes! It's a lot to think about!
Hamburger? Cholesterol! An animal died to make that sandwich!
You don't need any of that to grasp the full extent of RISUS. It's objectively more accessible than 5E.
Why would you be so wrong on purspose?
This is meaningless. Look at League of Legends or DotA. They do not do a good job of teaching new players how to play the game whatsoever and community content does not change that.
A game shouldn't need an endless river of content sludge to support the basic idea of just reading the book and learning the rules.
Can you ever make a post where you don't sound like a dumb bitching cunt.
Can you, trollhunter?
>low entry barrier
Just buy over $100 worth of books, probably more if you want to get a campaign book too since you're not going to want to actually read the DMG and sorta learn how to run a game, plus a D&D beyond subscription because learning to make characters the old fashioned way is apparently too hard for the average player.
>availability to homebrew it
This is nonsense, but you're already borderline incoherent anyways. You probably think "homebrew" means writing your own adventure.
Here's the actual shit 5e has going for it: Ubiquity and Brand Recognition. Nearly any place that sells books will probably have D&D books and probably some overpriced dice, too. Practically everyone you talk to will have a vague idea of what D&D is, thanks to pop culture references and every fucking video game for the last 20 years including "RPG mechanics" along with the rise and fall of MMOs. People understand leveling. The understand the gist of stats and skills. They get that you make a character and then go on pretend adventures with dice and monsters and magic swords. They can mostly transfer that knowledge to D&D (and nearly every other TTRPG, but people mistakenly believe D&D has some special sauce that no other game has)
It just works
>availability to homebrew
More like you will have to fill the gaps because is not a system in many fields, is just guidelines. Skills are fucking barebones for example
> low entry barrier, and availability to homebrew it?
This is a childish lie. D&D 5e extremly convoluted and bloated, with railroads instead of official modules, making experience for a new GM a headache. It also doesn't welcome homebrew, but requires it to be somewhat fun and playable to the point you need to reinvent the game by yourself, making 5e rules useless.
>the game with the most new players is too hard to get into
>the game with the most homebrew is too hard to homebrew for
Anon, have you ever considered you're a retard?
Marvel is super popular but is also hard to get into. Requiring watching several movies beforehand or tons of comics. It's not easy to get into
Are you retarded
Every Marvel movie barring the sequels to the big epics rely on basically no previous knowledge other than the audience clapping when they see Robo Man and Hammer boy and the occasional brief reference to Mega Scrimblo in 0.00001 second of the end credits to tumultous approval and recognition.
Marvel movies are insanely braindead media, and, like 5e can be approached by literally anyone incredibly easily
I run a DnD club at the school I teach at and my very thick bottom set Y11 class trialled a first session with quite literally 0 experience and had a pretty solid time
Any retard can watch a Marvel movie
Any retard can play Dnd and there is a huge amount of source material to assist them
Yeah? Watch what happens when one of the players has a conflicting vision of what they should be able to do.
> Anon, have you ever considered you're a retard?
Have you? Or you think paid shilling is something really smart? Your greentext talks about the brand recognition and then proves my point about requirement of homebrews to make a game playable. You haven't even actually adressed my points in a good faith. You just reapiting yourself over and over again by answering fa/tg/uys ITT. On a normal board you will be already banned.
People liking homebrew doesn't prove that it's needed to make the game playable.
Oh god, you actually are retarded, I'm so sorry, I didn't know. Now I feel like an ass.
Fuck, you probably imagine every game is unplayable because every game has homebrew. That's pretty severe retardation, and here I was, treating you like a joke.
> People liking homebrew
What people like homebrew or not have to do with my original statement that D&D 5e requires homebrew to be fun and playable?
OSR movement, endless heartbreakers, clones and fixes are overwhelming proof of that. It is just a common knowledge at this point.
So why are you ignoring what I've acually said? The post is still here, the words are clear.
You trolling skills are not good enough? They don't pay you for that? What is it?
You're not worth talking to.
You're demanding I accept your demonstrably false statement that the game needs homebrew to be playable. I'm not ignoring what you said, I'm calling you out as a retard for saying it.
If you want to argue the game is better with homebrew, I will just agree. Every game is better with homebrew.
> You're not worth talking to.
Yeah, I know. As I said they don't pay you enough to think and argue. Just to immitate le edgy Ganker talk by being an obnoxious bitch calling anons retards when you have nothing to answer.
You don't even consider that homebrew can be bad and that good games requires little to no homebrew.
You don't know shit abot how people play TTRPGs, shill.
>You don't even consider that homebrew can be bad and that good games requires little to no homebrew.
Fucking this. I've suffered through both garbage homebrew to the point where I bitched out the GM to this face for it and have played games that functioned perfectly fine without homebrewing anything.
>good games requires little to no homebrew.
Oh, horse shit. Homebrew has nothing to do with the quality of the game and EVERYTHING to do with WHAT YOU WANT IN IT.
The various World of Darkness titles and Gamma World, for example, are very good games, but their focus on North America sucks ass for those of us outside the evangelical caliphate. We want shit in our countries, with recognisable cultural touchstones, flora and fauna. If you want that, you're better off brewing it up yourself than waiting for OPP or WotC to pull their fingers out of their cocaine stashes.
>demonstrably false statement
>can't/won't demonstrate
lol
>demonstrate that a game played by thousands of people without homebrew can be played without homebrew
Uhhh...
...you fuckin' serious, mate?
Prove it then.
What will you accept as evidence.
>n-n-no you won't accept it!
If you had any evidence at all you would've posted it by now.
Thousands of people playing the game you call unplayable apparently isn't enough to persuade you, so tell me what evidence you will actually accept.
Go on. Last chance. Yes, I'm calling you out, right now.
Show me one. One 5e game without any homebrew.
Most people's first game with the system.
Also, how did you plan on me showing it to you.
>Also, how did you plan on me showing it to you
Not my problem.
Yes, yes it is. You're demanding proof, and not providing any standard in which it can be demonstrated. You're basically saying "The only way to convince me is you can't".
You're the one saying there's thousands of pieces of proof, and you can't even produce one. It's your job to figure out how to present it. I'm not doing your research for you.
This is a really round-a-bout way of begging to be invited to a game. Have you tried making friends?
How long are you gonna stall? Post your proof.
How? Help me out, since you're begging so much for it.
>he can't do it
lol. lmao even.
>Lol, you can't convince me, because I refuse to argue in good faith!
That really just makes you a dumbass and a cunt.
>asking for proof is bad faith
Yeah, okay.
Demanding proof and not offering what form you'd actually accept is about as bad faith as they come.
Hell, if you just want one game of someone playing without homebrew, I have anecdotal evidence of such in the form of a DM I know who buys all the books as they come out and runs a group through each adventure book. He runs them about as RAW as you can in the few times I have played with him, and the game functions pretty well to the point where I can't really imagine him fucking it up because it's such an easy system to run and the adventures are so basic in their designs.
Will you accept anecdotal evidence?
No, because you've already proven that you're full of shit.
You're really not shy about arguing in total bad faith.
Once again, what proof will you accept.
Another anon also chimed in with an example, and I will point to his post.
>b-b-bad faith!
You making shit up isn't evidence of your claims, and repeating some phrase you read on Buzzfeed doesn't make you any less wrong.
You have no proof. You lose. Good day sir.
>You making shit up
Like you did when you said that no one plays 5e without homebrewing it?
>You have no proof.
Nor do you, though, like I pointed out upthread.
>Anecdotal
NTA, but nobody takes your madeup stories. All you need is something empirical that can be corroborated. If they deny that evidence, then you can call them a bad faith actor.
>ask for proof
>ask what kind of proof you will accept
>refuse
>be given proof
>deny that proof
>be asked what proof you will accept
>act like a dumb cunt
Yep, you were a piece of shit all along.
Why would you need permission to show your proof? Why are you continuing to whine and dance around the subject when you could post one shred of evidence and end the argument instantly?
Is it because you don't actually have anything to back up your claims?
>Why would you need permission to show your proof?
We're not asking for permission, we're asking for clarification. What do you define as homebrew, and what will you accept as proof? Obviously you're not accepting anecdotal evidence, despite the fact that your claim is based on an anecdote in the first place. So what WILL you accept? If a video is posted of someone's first play session using the D&D Essentials kit, will you accept that?
Because I have that.
Now conversely: Why should we accept your claim that no one plays D&D without homebrewing it? This claim is no less baseless, and you've offered up not one shred of evidence to prove it.
>This claim is no less baseless,
No, his claim is much more baseless.
>Why would you need permission to show your proof?
No one asked for permission. Asking what form of proof they'll accept helps actually progress the discussion, because it sets the goalposts in a place they can't just be immediately moved after the evidence is provided.
Like, if some one says they'll accept evidence of a game being played in a certain fashion, and that is delivered, that's the end. As opposed to them then going "nuh uh, I won't believe you" when you give them evidence and then even "I also won't believe anyone else" when you give another person's testimony, all like some petty bitch.
If he had just from the start demanded he sit in on a game and personally experience it before accepting a commonly known truth, we could have just called him a dumb petty bitch from the start.
>and you can't even produce one
When my DM ran Hoard of the Dragon Queen he was insistent on running the rules as written, since it was our first 5e game back in 2015.
There, there's one example. Of course I have no proof of it because I wasn't recording it, but then you have no proof that there AREN'T games being run rules-as-written either. Neither of us can be flies on the wall of every table.
You've staked out a position ("no D&D game is run without homebrew") that is unfalsifiable and therefore invalid by its very nature. You are not arguing in good faith.
NTA, but, man, you are not arguing at all. I've read the thread, and you're just repeating for 100 posts the D&D is great because it's popular. It is so popular and big and popular and therefore wow. So far you just keep silent when you're mocked for ridiculous statements like "every Homebrew is good" or when you can't even explain how "availability to Homebrew" is even a feature of TTRPG and not an obvious default. And in the same time you don't even understand any hints and irony about looney and context deaf your statements and shilling are. This thread is a joke and you are a Muppet.
Who said every homebrew is good?
Hell, your imagination of what happened in this thread is so far from the truth I genuinely question your sanity.
Not only is there more than one person arguing here, no one has suggested that D&D is great solely because of its popularity. A few people have drawn the obvious connection; A popular game comes with a large community, and a large community comes with its own benefits (and drawbacks). But, people have also listed other reasons why the game is nowhere near as bad as the completely meritless game you've allowed yourself to imagine it to be.
Frankly, you're a little dipshit.
OP, you can be easily spotted without a checkmark. Calm down your tits.
>and you're just repeating for 100 posts
I've made like three posts in this thread, dude. Not everyone who disagrees with you is the same person.
>It is so popular and big and popular and therefore wow.
Yeah I don't think that. I think D&D, or specifically 5e, is good because it has a very easy to understand and calculate resolution mechanic (roll a d20, add modifiers, higher is better) that's used for everything, it's very hard to accidentally create a mechanically bad character (Wot4E monk is really the only one), and its rules are flexible enough to be applied to a variety of different styles of play.
>This thread is a joke and you are a Muppet.
Sweet, I love the Muppets. I wanna be Sam Eagle. That being said, again, I've made like three posts in this thread. Not everyone who disagrees with you is the same person.
But you just called 5e good becaise of d20 mechanics. It is exact nonesence like in the OP.
I see you can't even track who you are responding to on Ganker and still can't just answer fatguys directly. Do you really think it is good SMM?
Oh, really? Then show me one (1) 5e campaign that don't use homebrew to fix it.
>the game with the most new players is too hard to get into
But it's true. 5e is awful for newbies and the only reason it's considered "easy" to get into is because there are armies of veteran players around willing to shepherd new players through their first time.
This is also why most 5e players will add mountains of homebrew instead of just playing a pre-made system that does what they're trying to do. 5e has taught them that learning a new system is a convoluted labyrinthian nightmare, when that's not the case for most other systems.
>because there are armies of veteran players around willing to shepherd new players through their first time.
That and playing aids like d&d beyond where they can build characters without much thinking, also VTTs that reduce all game mechanics interaction in pushing buttons for invoking prescripted macros.
the unironic best thing about 5e is that advantage and disadvantage are really overpowered. it does a good job of encouraging players to improvise because they know the benefit is probably gonna be pretty strong, unlike 3.5 and 4e where everything is so overquantified that you’ll either have a nightmare determining the effect of an improvised action or you’ll not be sure of what the effect is so you go with the sure thing and just use a spell/maneuver/power instead
Not necessarily true. This is heavily dependent on dm. If you have a dm that demands raw, improvisation could be discourage
>it does a good job of encouraging players to improvise
Actually it does the opposite because if you have any other source of advantage there's no reason to do it at all.
Dragonborns with top hats
>low entry barrier
It isn't even that low, it's just the most popular so everyone tries it, but I wouldn't recommend to someone literally starting at RPGs.
>show me!
>no you post proof
>no you first
>no unless you do first
>ah, it means you have no proof so i don't have to post mine
>you can't post proff
Jesus, this is the most retarded mexican standoff i ever seen. Fucking kiss already retards.
Ah, yes, lets ignore the corpo bot. It is just anons arguing and need to kiss.
Do other games have a site with rules/content listing as comprehensive as 5etools?
Downloading pdfs is fine and all but if there's something better, I want to know about it.
Also equivalent r20 browser extension for importing their content or Foundry Modules.
4E and PF2
At first I loved 5e, now I kinda hate it.
First, combat drags. It feels slow and it's always when player interest starts to trail off. This is compounded by players getting way too strong way too fast, so actually challenging them is difficult, and the CR system is useless. Players tend to look at their sheets as mechs to pilot rather than characters. Death almost never happens past level 3 unless you change the rules or make encounters stupidly difficult. The whole game feels like Marvel Super Heroes rather than survivors conquering perilous traps and foes. A ton of work is loaded onto the DM, to the point where there's no reason to ever buy an official product. Especially when the products are either underwritten or so poorly laid out (chapter 1 of the DMs guide is about gods)
That said, roll high with mod is easy to suss out, I think advantage, inspiration, and the bonds/flaws/ideals thing is nice.
5e's biggest benefit is how it cna just do any DnD related type of style of play or adventure broadly.
4e is too up its own tactical ass, 3e is up in the characte rop builds and rules heavy junk, and TSR stuff is all in on the gritty dungeoncrawler stuff.
5e just does a little of all that well enough for most people with their own little house rules, and they are content playing most dnd related styles of adventures in it with those adjustments and are happy with just that.
Thats probably the biggest benefit of the system, plus its build on the simple old d20+ Adv system which is really smooth and easy to run and you can rule 90% of things as some for of that, and it just works out.
It doesn't do any of that worth a damn.