>Alright, if everyone is back from their smoking break, let us continue our session.

>Alright, if everyone is back from their smoking break, let us continue our session.
>Now that I have finished telling you the history of the woods you're currently in through a poem written by the magical tree that once lived here 7500 years ago, we can begin our combat against the forest goblins. Before you roll initiative, however, Forlingofelaenorldoran the Elf hero of old appears nearby. With a +750 to Initiative and his 90 AC and 25 attacks per turn, he instantly kills all of them enemies that were about to fight you. His visage is magnificient, and you are all compelled to kneel in reverence at his ancient splendour.
>"Hail!" He says to you, and he begins to sing a song explaining who he is.

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  1. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    I'm interested.

  2. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    ok thta was pretty funny

    DM! DM! I drew my character, do I get bonux xp?

  3. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    The elfwank really does remove any sort of tension in Tolkien's stories. The multipage songs don't ruin the flow as much as being told that a single elf could go frick up Sauron and still have time for breakfast.

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      >as much as being told that a single elf could go frick up Sauron and still have time for breakfast.
      Yes, I too remember when Gil-Galad single handedly slapped around Sauron while knitting a sweater for Elrond and accidentally weaved the one ring of power into the collar. A jolly good time that was!

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        And as we all know Fingolfin had to struggle his way to fight the big bad guy of the setting and was crushed swiftly because he's a mortal elf fighting an evil demigod, right?

        What do you mean he just ran up north, killed everything in his path or made them run, then kicked the big bad guy's ass so hard he was crippled forever?

        N-not elfwank though...

        • 2 years ago
          Anonymous

          Frick you its a great song.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Yes. But the universe's context robs it of all its glory.

        • 2 years ago
          Anonymous

          The literal most powerful non-god character in the setting? Told as an ancient myth of elder days? Who ends up literally getting his head stomped in? Why are you all such homosexuals, do you not actually LIKE mythology? Should they have nerfed Achilles?

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Yes. Myths are bullshit and totally unrealistic morality stories for the dead religions of braindead cavemen. Aping them in modern fiction is childish and pathetic.

            • 2 years ago
              Anonymous

              Pathetic homosexual Black person response.

            • 2 years ago
              Anonymous

              >Myths are bullshit and totally unrealistic morality stories
              You aren't even human.

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      The entire reason it had to be hobbits was that powerful beings have powerful desires, and Sauron is an expert at exploiting that. The Eagles couldn't fly the ring in because one of them would end up wearing it and becoming a redundantly floating ringwraith, the elves couldn't just pack up and sneak in because one of them would end up wearing it and conquer the elves for Sauron. His fatal flaw was not having any good contingency for the ring ending up with humble losers who have no grand desires. Obviously it'll end up in the hands of a hero, and heroes fall when they have it. No backup needed.

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        Let us be fair, even Frodo, according to Tolkien and as seen, could not have unmade the Ring where it was made. Nothing could. He spent every ounce of will and body and soul to bear the Ring there, so it was time for Eru Iluvatar to step up.

        • 2 years ago
          Anonymous

          Another example of

          Which makes for a shit villain. Tolkien's Catholicism and his inability to write anything he couldn't accord with it undercut his work

          in action. The Ring could not have been more powerful than Sauron at his height, and Sauron at his height was not that powerful. Catholicism just has a desperate interest in convincing men they're fundamentally inadequate, because a confident man has no need of a pedo in a funny hat touting a dead israelite on a stick.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >Another example of in action. The Ring could not have been more powerful than Sauron at his height, and Sauron at his height was not that powerful.
            I don't get why you'd measure Sauron's supernatural smithcraft and magic by his combat prowess. It's not like anyone has a single "power level".

            • 2 years ago
              Anonymous

              A lot of the criticisms people have seem to be by people who haven't actually read his books. Because it just isn't true.

              What does the scouter say?

            • 2 years ago
              Anonymous

              The Ring's power is derived from his spirit. Without that it's just a band of gold. And if he could make things indestructible all along why didn't he just do that to his body?

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                He put his power into it, not his spirit. Souls are inviolable in the Legendarium.
                There's no reason to assume Sauron could use his craft to enhance his body. Someone working with metal isn't a surgeon (though they missed make themselves great armour).

                >this character is too weak/overpowered
                >i-i-it's not about powerlevels!
                Piss off.

                The point is that circumstances and the kind of skills you have mean you're differently capable in different situations. A boxer will beat the shit out of a frail gunsmith in a fight, but if the gunsmith makes himself a gun he'll likely win the fight. You can't look at one aspect of a character and assign it a general power level.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                The problem with Melkor is he's supposedly good at multiple things, but is outshined in every area. He's beaten up physically, he's beaten up magically, and he's beaten up in terms of cunning/smarts. He doesn't have any advantage and never gets a win, unless it's with a massive edge over the enemy and even still he gets badly beaten around in the process.

                In your example it's more like a pro boxer goes to fight an expert gunsmith, the boxer beats him, then builds a gun better than the gunsmith could possibly make and shoots him with it.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                Melkor starts second best at everything out of the valar and fights them toe to toe, but gets explicitly weaker the more of his power he puts into corrupting the world because he can't "top up" from the flame imperishable via god the way the other valar do. Something to do with catholics believing the devil can't create on his own, I assume. Sauron is also described as getting weakened by expending his will on others.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                Melkor holds his own against 13 Valar and their Maiar, and him running when Tulkas joins might have been out of fear more than a certainly of being outmatched.
                And then, it's Melkor putting his power into evil beings - and the very matter of the world itself in order to subdue it, which he doesn't wholly manage.
                But Arda is permanently marred and trending towards evil, which can only be fixed after the End of the World with a new Music. Melkor spreads his power thin at the cost of his personal might, but that way his influence lives on. Tolkien called it the "Melkor element" in everything, and the whole World "Morgoth's Ring" - because Sauron merely put his power into the One Ring while Melkor put it into the whole World. That shows the difference in scale between original Melkor and Second Age Sauron.

            • 2 years ago
              Anonymous

              >this character is too weak/overpowered
              >i-i-it's not about powerlevels!
              Piss off.

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      Sauron is the reason the only elf kingdoms left are two hidden cities in the wilderness and a refugee camp/military outpost that's also hidden(Imladris).

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      https://i.imgur.com/56Iawwp.jpg

      >Alright, if everyone is back from their smoking break, let us continue our session.
      >Now that I have finished telling you the history of the woods you're currently in through a poem written by the magical tree that once lived here 7500 years ago, we can begin our combat against the forest goblins. Before you roll initiative, however, Forlingofelaenorldoran the Elf hero of old appears nearby. With a +750 to Initiative and his 90 AC and 25 attacks per turn, he instantly kills all of them enemies that were about to fight you. His visage is magnificient, and you are all compelled to kneel in reverence at his ancient splendour.
      >"Hail!" He says to you, and he begins to sing a song explaining who he is.

      Homosexuals who can't read spotted.

      Elves are just as fallible as humans. Wisdom of those who remained to the end of Third Age is bought with literal aeons of suffering and betrayal, and even then they still need Men and Hobbits to save them from Sauron.

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      Where did you read that, in a fanfic? Even Galadriel with the Ring would've failed to defeat Sauron, and she's the greatest around still. Maybe the mightiest Elves together could fight Sauron with weapons because he's more of a sorcerer, but they have no hope of getting to him in Barad-Dur.

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        No, Tolkien said in his letter that Galadriel + the Ring would have be able to build an empire that would have defeated Mordor.

        • 2 years ago
          Anonymous

          It's letter 246 and you're misremembering.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            No, I'm not. Galadriel would have beaten Sauron with the ring.

            • 2 years ago
              Anonymous

              Well, I have the text in front of me. Let's see:
              >Of the others only Gandalf might be expected to master him – being an emissary of the Powers and a creature of the same order, an immortal spirit taking a visible physical form.
              >[...] it appears the Galadriel conceived of herself as capable of wielding the Ring and supplanting the Dark Lord. If so, so also were the other guardians of the Three, especially Elrond. But this is another matter. It was part of the essential deceit of the Ring to fill minds with imaginations of supreme power. But this the Great had well considered and had rejected [...]
              >In any case Elrond or Galadriel would have proceeded in the policy now adopted by Sauron: they would have built up an empire with great and absolutely subservient generals and armies and engines of war, until they could challenge Sauron and destroy him by force.
              You're misremembering, or misinterpreting, policy as outcome.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                You earlier claimed Galadriel would lose to Sauron.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                Every anon other than you is indeed secretly the same person.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                Yes Tolkein very clearly states Galadriel and Elrond would likely fall if they took the one, only Gandalf would have an even shot. 50/50.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                No he doesn't.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                I am pretty sure Gandalf states that he is sure that the Ring would get to him eventually by appealing to his own morality. You know, when Frodo offers it to him?

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                No he doesn't.

                What Tolkien actually states is that Gandalf is the only one, if he had the ring, who might possibly beat Sauron with it in a personal contest (and if he did would end up worse than Sauron). The others would have built up an army and attempted to beat Sauron that way, and he says that Galadriel appears to THINK she could do so but might be being deceived by the ring. Either way the ring ends up winning even if Sauron does not.

  4. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    whats next? are you going to have your angel gmpc descend from the sky mounted on an eagle to save the day again? lay down the crack pipe we are playing a game not writing a shitty novel

  5. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    Be a homosexual all you want, just because The Silmarillion is a great book doesn’t mean it’d be a great game. Seethe.

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      >the main villain is the driver of conflict in this book and his shadow looms over everything
      >loses badly again and again and again and again and again and again and again

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        >killed the two great trees
        >killed finwe
        >stole the silmarils
        >killed Fingolfin
        >destroys Gondolin

        Disingenuous homosexual read any book once instead of getting your opinions from YouTube.

        • 2 years ago
          Anonymous

          >had a spider kill two trees for him
          >killed an elf who wasn't a warrior
          >stole some israeliteels and obsessed over them because hurr hurr purty
          >got whipped around like a b***h by an elf and only won because his godliness means he can't die
          >loses tons of his troops and his gothmog general who dies when a single elf headbutts him

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            NTA, but yes. The whole point about Melkor was that evil is petty and selfish and ultimately not very powerful.

            • 2 years ago
              Anonymous

              Which makes for a shit villain. Tolkien's Catholicism and his inability to write anything he couldn't accord with it undercut his work

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                It doesn't. Evil is supposed to lose in the end.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                Evil is supposed to be the more powerful party in the conflict, such that the hero's victory is improbable. Not inevitable because hurr durr God on our side.

                Once you know the broader universe, the War of the Ring was completely irrelevant. It wouldn't have mattered an ounce if all the heroes had all cut their own throats the moment the Nazgul showed up. Once you've established God as a character on a particular side, that's it. Drama over, story is boring sludge.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                You can have God be on the side of a character and still have stakes (Solomon Kane, Arthurian myth), it's about how you handle it. The issue's not that God's in the story, it's that the villains are powerless jobbers in it.

                Another example of [...] in action. The Ring could not have been more powerful than Sauron at his height, and Sauron at his height was not that powerful. Catholicism just has a desperate interest in convincing men they're fundamentally inadequate, because a confident man has no need of a pedo in a funny hat touting a dead israelite on a stick.

                Quit being moronic.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                >You can have God be on the side of a character and still have stakes (Solomon Kane, Arthurian myth), it's about how you handle it.
                No you can't. Unless you at minimum go all Zoroastrian and place evil on an equal divine footing, once you've established there's some big guy with unlimited power that sees all involved and on one side, that's it. No drama is possible.

                >The issue's not that God's in the story, it's that the villains are powerless jobbers in it.
                That's what happens when you put God in a story. At least put an Ahriman to the heroes' Ahura Mazda if you want any possible drama.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                You act like God swoops in and instantly makes everything good and all evil dead. That doesn't happen in real life, and there's a myriad of theistic and atheistic theories why, so why would having the capital G God in a story be any different?

                I do agree though. Like said, I'm a God-fearing guy myself, but if I'm gonna have a fantasy story I prefer it to be separate from what I view the real world as, something I also don't like with Tolkien where he tried to make Eru God, Melkor Satan, etc. I'm not a fan of that whatsoever.

                This, if the villains were truly jobbers, orcs wouldn't have been created, Saruman wouldn't have fallen and the distant nations of men wouldn't all be sucking Sauron's wiener like a popsicle on a warm summer day.

                Orcs are basically rabbits that elves slay in droves and never pose a threat, Saruman turned to evil on his own and that's not some sign of Sauron's power, and the distant nations suck Sauron's dick less than they suck Gondor's dick. As soon as The Good Guys(tm) roll up they start annihilating everything they come across, and even worse the books say they don't hate Gondor for it, they're enamored by Gondor's majesty and awe, just like Gondor's enamored by the majesty and awe of Elves.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                >As soon as The Good Guys(tm) roll up they start annihilating everything they come across, and even worse the books say they don't hate Gondor for it, they're enamored by Gondor's majesty and awe, just like Gondor's enamored by the majesty and awe of Elves.
                Except the Easterlings, who fight to the death. Good on the golden boys.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                The jackson movies had some sick fricking fashion sense even if it wasn't what the books described. I bought some easterlings for the wargame back when it fiest came out just because they looked cool.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                >You act like God swoops in and instantly makes everything good and all evil dead.
                He *could*, which means anything the good guys do is redundant and anything the evil guys do is pointless. There's no drama in it. It doesn't matter if the good guys are wiped out to a man.

                >That doesn't happen in real life, and there's a myriad of theistic and atheistic theories why, so why would having the capital G God in a story be any different?
                It's because if there is a God the universe itself is irrefutable proof he either doesn't give a shit or actively hates us.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                To me that's a pretty closed-off way of looking at things. I don't see how we can truly know, and again, look at stories like Solomon Kane or multiple Arthurian tales. Those still have tension and still have powerful villains, and often the heroes lose or suffer greatly even though they triumph in the end, directly or indirectly. You can have an ultimate good in a story, or involve the G God and still have it be a tense story where the outcome doesn't seem so clear.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                Once you've established that such a being exists and is on a particular side, the only reason he would have for not doing pic related is that he's an butthole. And the fact that he could, whether or not the hero is brutally crushed or not, makes the whole thing an irrelevant sideshow.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                Do you believe that the existence of evil means there's no God or God is evil, then?

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                I subscribe to the idea that if there is a God he is either not sapient in any conceivable way or totally indifferent to us. A kind and loving creator would not have looked into the world's future and deemed it worth making, a cruel one would have gone all "And I Must Scream" on everything.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                That implies He knew the future of the world or intended it to be this way, and that it wasn't us that made it as bad as it is now. "This is the future we chose" and so on.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                If he's omniscient, he knows how the project will go before it starts. You can say he isn't but that starts violating most religious dogmas.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                If He knew everything we would do, we wouldn't have free will. I can't speak for sure on what God is or isn't, but I know that He doesn't have a gun to our heads making us do horrible shit to each other.
                >most religious dogmas.
                Most religious dogmas have long been corrupted and subverted.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                Ok, well you've drastically changed what most people think of as God then.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                Time will tell if I'm right.

                You're literally downplaying all the suffering, how Beleriand was razed and put to fire, how Thingol's realm and Gondolin were destroyed because you can only focus on shonen power levels and don't catch on the whole meaning of the story.
                What a horrible way to judge stories.

                Melkor's suffering caused was minimal. He got his ass kicked constantly, repeatedly, and without fail. The Valar didn't come destroy him immediately because Eru wouldn't let them until the elves repented, and even then the War of Wrath was solely elves, not Valar, destroying Melkor everywhere.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                >Melkor's suffering caused was minimal
                >every single important Kingdom razed
                >Turin's story shows there's lots of bandits and raiders roaming the land
                >The battle of sudden flame and its aftermath
                >minimal suffering
                Again, stop just looking at the wiki for character duels and start reading and understanding the book you're shitposting about.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                >well sure melkor got b***hslapped around but some elves died and got scattered with immense effort on melkor's part massive casualties and him getting cripplingly wounded so it's fair!
                The fact the elves could crush him repeatedly, solo, is the problem.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                >???
                Melkor kept vaporizing elves left and right, Fingolfin got his foot because Melkor boasted during a duel, and even then Fingolfin was fighting out of sheer desperation and grief, he knew he would never win.

                Do you also read the Iliad and think it's bullshit because Achilles was stronger than Agamemnon and should have ruled instead?
                >muh powerlevels
                The point
                Your head

                Saging because there's no point arguing with a shonen homosexual, go back to My Hero or what else you watch these days.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                The elves kept Melkor stuck in his fortress for like 500 years because they wiped out his armies. Then in the War of Wrath they wiped out everything he had until the dragons, which then got wiped out by a half-elf in a flying boat.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                >The villain is only a threat if the good guys do literally nothing and God is an butthole
                Wow so scary.

                Remind me why Eru drowned millions of children on Numenor instead of just giving Ar Pharazon and Sauron heart attacks again?

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                >Numenor
                The only overpowered bullshit group in Tolkien's world that can match the overpowered bullshit of elves.
                >tfw an army of dudes was infinitely more threatening than melkor could ever dream of being
                What a well-written and scary main villain Melkor is.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                I mean they literally made Sauron their b***h, so yeah. They only fell because they underestimated just how much of a tremendous butthole God turned out to be. Drowns babies in their mothers' arms, won't just smite the evil Maia.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                >>I mean they literally made Sauron their b***h, so yeah.
                >dude surrenders voluntarily, goes from being a prisoner to king's second in command in less than one numenorean lifetime and corrupts most of their society into worshiping morgoth and thinking that human sacrifices are totally ok while doing so
                Seems like a pretty smashing success to me tbh. If the dude hadn't gotten too wienery and had found himself some convenient excuse to be off the fricking island after Ar-Incest left for Valinor, it would have been a flawless victory with zero downsides.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                >Time will tell if I'm right.
                Well you're basically coming up with your own new religion so good luck I guess.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                The concept of free will isn't unheard of, but even if it was, your approval, or anyone else's, or my own, doesn't affect whether or not God exists or what His nature is. We can only believe what we want to believe.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                What if I believe he is affected by belief?

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                It wouldn't change His existence, or lack thereof.

                No, I mean the part where you deny God knows what's going to happen in the future by virtue of omniscience.

                If He knew what we'd do, we wouldn't have free will. Things aren't predestined, I don't believe.

                Didn't Tulkas wrestle him for a thousand years or something somewhere in all that?

                Tulkas showed up once, Melkor ran away in terror, then Tulkas showed up again and took Melkor down with barely a fight. It's hard to say whether Tulkas is a gary sue or Melkor is just written really, really lame.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                >It wouldn't change His existence, or lack thereof.
                How do you know that? Maybe God is the collective emanation of the beliefs of all life.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                Maybe. Your belief or mine wouldn't change it.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                Not really God knows what we’ll do but we have the ability to choose our own path. That’s how it is.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                >God knows exactly what you're going to do before you do it but don't worry it's totally not predestination or anything

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                Me knowing that the drunk driving of in a car is gonna have a bad time isn't exactly predestination.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                How is it predestination when he gave you the ability to choose your path?

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                Because he knew of my circumstances and that choice I will make considering my circumstances

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                No, I mean the part where you deny God knows what's going to happen in the future by virtue of omniscience.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                Didn't Tulkas wrestle him for a thousand years or something somewhere in all that?

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                Why does God permit evil? Simple. Evil glorifies God. Or rather, it's humiliation and destruction does. A reality where evil is overcome and defeated is more valuable than one where evil never existed at all. Consider that from God's timeless perspective, the kingdom has already been actualized. And in that splendid eternity, mankind, having experienced the horrors of evil and sin directly in the fallen world, will possess a unique perspective and wisdom that not even angels can fully understand. Those are the souls the LORD wants to dwell with. You were meant for so much more than you think.

                There is nothing outside of His hand. He is sovereign over all things and everything is going Just. As. Planned.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                Yeah and what happens to all the souls created to be damned forever by this demented deity? And moreover why wouldn't God, being omniscient, be able to just create people already knowing all the things about evil he wants them to know?

                >There is nothing outside of His hand. He is sovereign over all things and everything is going Just. As. Planned.
                Then he's an abusive butthole. But fortunately I don't subscribe to your model.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                >the fact that we can't just not act like evil shitty people is God's fault

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                >The creation's quality does not reflect the creator

                >Yeah and what happens to all the souls created to be damned forever by this demented deity?
                You are welcome to reject Him and His kingdom and go your own way, as Satan did. "Hell" is simply the inevitable wretched state of being one will find themselves in after refusing divine love. The fire is your own, as you attempt to build your identity on something other than God, and it will destroy you because it cannot truly fulfill you as your creator can. You were never meant to be the central enjoyer and trying will only make you miserable.

                Yay, slavery.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                >>The creation's quality does not reflect the creator
                Literally yes. The whole point is that we were made perfect but willingly chose to rebel against Him and turn to evil.

                >God is a selfish butthole who makes terminally dependent slaves

                >hey thanks for making us god
                >you're welcome, but please act good
                >WTF WE'RE NOT YOUR FRICKING SLAVES FRICK YOU

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                >God is a selfish butthole who makes terminally dependent slaves

                >Infinite love is slavery
                You're entitled to feel that way, sure.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                >Yeah and what happens to all the souls created to be damned forever by this demented deity?
                You are welcome to reject Him and His kingdom and go your own way, as Satan did. "Hell" is simply the inevitable wretched state of being one will find themselves in after refusing divine love. The fire is your own, as you attempt to build your identity on something other than God, and it will destroy you because it cannot truly fulfill you as your creator can. You were never meant to be the central enjoyer and trying will only make you miserable.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                >God is a selfish butthole who makes terminally dependent slaves

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                >The fire is your own, as you attempt to build your identity on something other than God, and it will destroy you because it cannot truly fulfill you as your creator can
                In what universe are we talking about?

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                >passive aggression
                >you are free to damn yourself, sweetie. Unlike me teehee
                Religiongay...

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                >And moreover why wouldn't God, being omniscient, be able to just create people already knowing all the things about evil he wants them to know?
                Why not have people experience evil first hand and learn that way?

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                If a parent never allowed their kid to fail, the kid would never learn. We chose evil and we continue to choose evil. If God came down and removed all evil and forced us to like Him, it wouldn't be our choice and He wouldn't be a father, He'd be a dictator.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                They don't step in because direct intervention would destroy the land. That's why Gandalf can't draw on his full power. Or solve every conflict for the mortals.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                You sound like one of those people that expects government to solve all their problems for them.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                If the government knew everything, had unlimited power over reality, and there were literally no costs because again, omnipotent, then yeah. Yeah I would. I would expect that of anyone with a modicum of morality or empathy finding themselves in those circumstances.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                What about self development or actually earning that help?

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                If someone is dying of poverty and the other person can help them with literal zero effort and simply refuses to because he doesn't feel like it that's still kind of shitty behaviour.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                >something I also don't like with Tolkien where he tried to make Eru God, Melkor Satan, etc. I'm not a fan of that whatsoever.

                That's understandable, but Middle Earth's relationship with Christianity is extremely complicated. For starters, he saw all good stories as echoing the story of Jesus, a story of courage and sacrifice and moral purity in the face of evil, and as an atheist I think he had a point.

                >No drama is possible.
                Eru and his children composed the drama. It's dramatic because of how he removes himself from it.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                Well, we still make WW2 games and movies despite the fact that the Nazis were destined to lose.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                Says someone who's never led Germany to victory in HoI4 before.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                >Quit being moronic.
                They hated him because he told them the truth.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                A post like this only makes sense if you treat fiction like sportsball. Are you a 40kid by any chance?

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                You sound like a tremendous homosexual, I bet you're unironically looking forward to Amazon's Rings of Power.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                If the government knew everything, had unlimited power over reality, and there were literally no costs because again, omnipotent, then yeah. Yeah I would. I would expect that of anyone with a modicum of morality or empathy finding themselves in those circumstances.

                You must be stuck in arrested development, because you really just don't get it. The existence of God and angels does not preclude the existence of villainy, or evil. In Christian theology, evil exists because of free will, and thus it exists in every story that has a Christian God, which used to be every story that Europeans made and told from the 2nd century AD until recently. Villains are not "shit tier" just because God could swat them if He wanted to but doesn't want to. Villains exist because otherwise there's be no story with danger and stakes. Why doesn't God stop the Devil from making and shattering the mirror in the Snow Queen? Because there would be no fricking story if He did. Why doesn't Eru swat Melkor instantly? Because there would be no fricking story. Why not write a story without God? Because they were Christians and wanted to write a story with God, and if they didn't, there would be no fricking story.

                But then again, maybe that's a good thing, because no LOTR means no morons like you flexing your sub 80 IQ writing advice.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                >Why doesn't God stop the Devil from making and shattering the mirror in the Snow Queen
                Because He put the devil up to it. They're doing one of those Job things

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                But the Devil was originally going to bring it to heaven to mess with God.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                Except in LOTR we're told up front and explicitly that the setting's Devil has no power and is an extremely weak, cowardly cretin and that even mortal beings, let along rival demigods, can clobber him to death and all he can do in response is fall on his face and beg for mercy.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                Ok. That doesn't change what I said. You insufferable homosexual.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                I'm not the anon you're responding to there, I don't agree with him either. Like I said way back, the problem isn't that God is in the setting, it's the way it's handled. God is present in settings like the myths of King Arthur, or Solomon Kane, but there are still actual stakes and the heroes have to struggle to overcome the odds. In LOTR, the villains are as strong as small bunnies and the heroes are absurdly overpowered. There's no tension, no stakes, and nothing to overcome except their own failings. The villains literally do nothing.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                The "devil" torched entire nations, mercilessly slaughtered all of the greatest warriors elvenkind had to offer, sowed distrust between races that could never be fully healed, stole the Silmarilsz killed the Trees that gave light to the entire world, covered the sky with smoke and blocked out the Sun in an entire chunk of the planet, scarred the Moon and irreversibly corrupted the entire world forever. Any attempts to oppose him led to minimal or phyrric victories at best. Every kingdom who fought him fell, sooner or later.
                You have never read the Silmarillion.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                >The "devil" torched entire nations
                Literally wouldn't come out of his basement, had to have his minions attack a tiny handful of city-states in one northwest corner of the map for him.

                >mercilessly slaughtered all of the greatest warriors elvenkind had to offer
                Killed one unarmed old guy in his house, then fought a grand total of one duel, which crippled him forever. Got ko'd by a single elven b***h and only survived because her husbando was too stupid to shove a knife in his unconscious throat.

                >sowed distrust between races that could never be fully healed
                "I made you like each other less" yeah big frickin' whoop.

                >stole the Silmarilsz killed the Trees that gave light to the entire world
                Killed an unarmed old man and stole some rocks, had to have a spider kill the trees for him.

                >covered the sky with smoke and blocked out the Sun in an entire chunk of the planet
                No he didn't. There were volcanic mountains that kept clouds of ash over Angband but that was it.

                >scarred the Moon and irreversibly corrupted the entire world forever
                He didn't touch the moon at all - his attempts to send dark spirits against it explicitly failed and he was fricking scared of the sun.

                >Any attempts to oppose him led to minimal or phyrric victories at best.
                Name a single fight with an actual armed opponent he willing undertook and unambiguously won.

                >Every kingdom who fought him fell, sooner or later.
                You know, except the one he was actually trying to show up, which rolled over him effortlessly, twice.

                >"Thus, as Morgoth, when Melkor was confronted by the existence of other inhabitants of Arda, with other wills and intelligences, he was enraged by the mere fact of their existence, and his only notion of dealing with them was by physical force, or the fear of it. His sole ultimate object was their destruction. Elves, and still more Men, he despised because of their weakness: that is their lack of physical force, or power over matter; but he was also afraid of them."

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                While I agree that Tolkien was a much better linguist than he was a fantasy fiction writer (I think he himself said as much), I don't know how much you can blame the Silmarillion. That right there is an incredibly contradictory quote. Melkor hates them because they lack physical force, but are infinitely stronger than him, and he's afraid of them accordingly. It's like how in the Fingolfin quote Tolkien says Melkor's "might is greatest of all things in this world" when it's consistently show that in every area, be it physical power, magical power, influence, or cunning, Melkor is hugely weaker than everyone else around him, both his own kin (of whom he's supposedly the greatest, despite everyone from Tulkas to lesser Maiar being hugely stronger than him in every way) and of regular mortals. It's pretty obvious that the Silmarillion was cobbled together from shit written years and ideas apart and the narrative's disjointed at best. We're given something from the 1960s of "Well, maybe I should make Melkor stronger" followed by something from the 1930s of "And then an elf beat the living shit out of Melkor."

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                >"The last intervention with physical force by the Valar, ending in the breaking of Thangorodrim, may then be viewed as not in fact reluctant or even unduly delayed, but timed with precision. The intervention came before the annihilation of the Eldar and the Edain. Morgoth though locally triumphant had neglected most of Middle-earth during the war; and by it he had in fact been weakened: in power and prestige (he had lost and failed to recover one of the Silmarils), and above all in mind. He had become absorbed in kingship, and though a tyrant of ogre-size and monstrous power, this was a vast fall even from his former wickedness of hate, and his terrible nihilism. He had fallen to like being a tyrant-king with conquered slaves, and vast obedient armies."
                "The devil" literally only had influence over one part of one continent lmfao.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                How is that any different from the actual Devil?

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                The one who controls the world and lets evil flourish?

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                People let evil flourish. The Devil only has power through others.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                Right, but it's a perpetual cycle of evil, with the top organizations that bring suffering and misery to the world being literal Satanic pedocults.

                In LOTR, Melkor owns one small portion of one continent and gets his ass kicked any time he tries to go anywhere else.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                No one is obligated to like Lord of the Rings. No one is going to revoke your nerd card for disliking it.
                It is just that the idea that tension is somehow gone when an elf shows up, because they are so great, seems contrary to what happens the story, which I've read many times. The Noldor are the greatest heroes that ever lived. It is explicitly stated that they can never defeat Morgoth. They do not defeat Morgoth. He kills Feanor, the majority of his Sons, and his relatives.
                Sauron is a much lower level being, but is able to cause a lot of damage because the Valar will no longer intervene due to the damage they cause. He destroys the greatest kingdom of men that ever existed.
                Elves and Men, on their own, and against the wishes of the Valar, are literally doomed to fail.

            • 2 years ago
              Anonymous

              Which makes for a shit villain. Tolkien's Catholicism and his inability to write anything he couldn't accord with it undercut his work

              I'm a religious man who thoroughly opposes the Warhammer style "durr evul is da stronkest thing evur good iz stoopid" grimderp approach, but I don't like Tolkien's approach either. The two extremes of a totally powerless and impotent villain and a totally allpowerful and invincible villain are equally shit for storytelling. It's weird that Tolkien took so much inspiration from Beowulf and Arthurian legend, where goodness triumphs but evil is a very powerful adversary for it, yet made a fantasy story where the good guys have no chance of losing and the bad guys are as threatening as a small puppy.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                >a totally powerless and impotent villain
                I wouldn't say Tolkein's villains are powerless or impotent. It's only that way if you reduce it to the absolute cliff notes, which is unfortunately where most of the discussion about his work starts and ends.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                They're threatening until an elf shows up.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                I too enjoyed the short story about Legolas casually strolling into Mordor and snapping Sauron's ring in front of him with a flick of his pinky and then everyone got to live happily ever after and no sailing West involved at all.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                A lone elf beat the shit out of the biggest bad in the setting.
                A lone elf fought multiple balrogs and only lost because he burned himself with his own anger. Balrogs, the ones who 1v1 could fight Gandalf, a Maiar, couldn't as a large collective beat an elf.
                An elf wardog beat Sauron near to death.
                Glorfindel terrifies all nine Nazgul. The Nazgul, ringwraiths that scare the others and the Witch-king who may've been a 1-1 match for Gandalf the White, but all nine couldn't hope to beat an elf.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                >All elves are Glorfindel tier and the setting has no stakes.
                Next you'll be b***hing humans are OP because Aragorn is King and got Arwen's elf-pussy all to himself.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                >(Christopher, of Legolas according to his father) He was tall as a young tree, lithe, immensely strong, able swiftly to draw a great war-bow and shoot down a Nazgûl, endowed with the tremendous vitality of Elvish bodies, so hard and resistant to hurt that he went only in light shoes over rock or through snow, the most tireless of all the Fellowship.
                >(Tolkien) They were thus capable of far greater and longer physical exertions (in pursuit of some dominant purpose of their minds) without weariness; they were not subject to diseases; they healed rapidly and completely after injuries that would have proved fatal to Men; and they could endure great physical pain for long periods

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                >Fingolfin hurt Morgoth, but they were surface wounds, he damaged his pride only, Morgoth destroyed him utterly in return, though he was ashamed of the fight.
                >Feanor, the most powerful Noldor, killed no balrogs, in fact Gothmog mortally wounds him, only Ecthelion and Glorfindel "kill" balrogs in a suicide rush plunging them into water and dying for it.
                >Huion is the greatest hound to ever walk, like Shadowfax yet greater in power, he's not an "Elf dog"
                >Gandalf explicitly says Glorfindel AND Aragorn couldn't hope to take the 9.
                >Gandalf already fought off all 9 in his far lesser grey form, after the toil through Moria and exhaustion of all the hardships, he goes on to be the only character to decidedly defeat a balrog, dying from the result, his White form goes on to challenge the Witch King AND the entire army at Minas Tirith.
                You lose.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                >Fingolfin hurt Morgoth, but they were surface wounds, he damaged his pride only, Morgoth destroyed him utterly in return, though he was ashamed of the fight.
                Morgoth is literally described as perpetually limping and in pain forever after

                >Feanor, the most powerful Noldor, killed no balrogs, in fact Gothmog mortally wounds him, only Ecthelion and Glorfindel "kill" balrogs in a suicide rush plunging them into water and dying for it.
                All of the Balrogs have to gang up to kill a single elf, later their biggest baddest dude gets killed by a spiky hat.

                >Huion is the greatest hound to ever walk, like Shadowfax yet greater in power, he's not an "Elf dog"
                Literally just a dog that belongs to elves and can talk a few times.

                >Gandalf explicitly says Glorfindel AND Aragorn couldn't hope to take the 9.
                No he doesn't. Glorfindel literally makes them flee by himself.

                >Gandalf already fought off all 9 in his far lesser grey form, after the toil through Moria and exhaustion of all the hardships, he goes on to be the only character to decidedly defeat a balrog, dying from the result, his White form goes on to challenge the Witch King AND the entire army at Minas Tirith.
                Are you just trying to prove our point now? If Gandalf is a match for the Witch King and an army together fighting with a handicap then the power disparity is too ridiculous for words.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                >they were surface wounds, he damaged his pride only, Morgoth destroyed him utterly in return
                He was limp forever because of it.
                >Feanor, the most powerful Noldor, killed no balrogs
                Depending on the version Feanor either slays many balrogs or holds his own against 3-7. Still, mortal elf easily beating 3-7 balrogs and only dying not because of Gothmog, but because he got so angry at Gothmog he burst into flames.
                >Huion is the greatest hound to ever walk, like Shadowfax yet greater in power, he's not an "Elf dog"
                Still a dog.
                >Gandalf explicitly says Glorfindel AND Aragorn couldn't hope to take the 9.
                Gandalf and Aragorn explicitly beat the 9 twice, and Glorfindel makes the 9 run away from him in terror.
                >Gandalf already fought off all 9 in his far lesser grey form
                Yes.
                >his White form goes on to challenge the Witch King AND the entire army at Minas Tirith.
                Yes. Which is bad. The Witch-king with his entire army and Sauron's added strength could still get floored by Gandalf effortlessly.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                You're a moronic wiki reader.
                You act like Morgoth was made lame by a wound which damaged his pride, Fingolfin literally raises his sword for Morfoth to drive it into his own boot as he crushes him, akin to Shelob wounding herself on Sam.
                >Depending on version
                Version nothing, Feanor died like you last braincell
                >Huion, a dog
                I'm sorry we agree
                >Gandalf explicitly beats the 9
                Yes, fights them at night even
                >Aragorn explicitly beats the 9
                Never happens, he chases off 5 after Frodo made the witch king vulnerable. Remember the other 3 hobbits have the same weapons.
                >Gandalf the White taking on am army effortlessly
                I don't even... There is nothing saying he would have won, he was willing to die, and he would have gone out valiantly. Maybe he could win, I'd love to see it.
                You're a neat typing words on a screen to later get deleted, that's your legacy, do not reproduce, you should actually be embaressed playing this level of supid.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                Learn English and try that whole post again.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                >You act like Morgoth was made lame by a wound which damaged his pride,
                That is literally what is described as happening you imbecile.

                >Fingolfin literally raises his sword for Morfoth to drive it into his own boot as he crushes him, akin to Shelob wounding herself on Sam.
                No, he just stabs it into Morgoth's foot which is already on top of him.

                >Yes, fights them at night even
                Yeah, and that's fricking stupid.

                >Never happens, he chases off 5 after Frodo made the witch king vulnerable. Remember the other 3 hobbits have the same weapons
                Never happened. Frodo did not stab the witch king, he said a fricking name (Elbereth). The witch king shattered Frodo's sword the one time he actually tried to use it.

                >Maybe he could win, I'd love to see it.
                The fact that that's even a thing which occurs to you speaks to the depths of the problem.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                Learn English and try that whole post again.

                Samegayging idiot, read the fricking books, Frodo is described explicitly as stabbing the foot of the king, his blade disintegrates, you actually can't cite anything for the shit you are saying.
                Also.
                >Morgoth, crushing Fingolfin beneath him, receives a sword to the foot
                Yes, I'm sure Morgoth putting his foot there, CRUSHING Fingy had nothing to do with the forxe exerted on the blade, add physics to the shit you need to learn.
                >Elbereth
                ????
                That's with Shelob you dolt

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                >Samegayging idiot, read the fricking books, Frodo is described explicitly as stabbing the foot of the king, his blade disintegrates, you actually can't cite anything for the shit you are saying.
                You absolute fricking moron. Firstly, Elbereth is Sindarin for Varda, the Vala.

                Second, Frodo's stab explicitly only hit his cloak.

                >'Look!' he cried; and stooping he lifted from the ground a black cloak that had lain there hidden by the darkness. A foot above the lower hem there was a slash. 'This was the stroke of Frodo's sword,' he said. 'The only hurt that it did to his enemy, I fear; for it is unharmed, but all blades perish that pierce that dreadful King. More deadly to him was the name of Elbereth.'

                Third, Frodo still has his blade up until the Witch King destroys it at the fords.

                >Then the leader, who was now half across the Ford, stood up menacing in his stirrups, and raised up his hand. Frodo was stricken dumb. He felt his tongue cleave to his mouth, and his heart labouring. His sword broke and fell out of his shaking hand. The elf-horse reared and snorted. The foremost of the black horses had almost set foot upon the shore.

                >Yes, I'm sure Morgoth putting his foot there, CRUSHING Fingy had nothing to do with the forxe exerted on the blade, add physics to the shit you need to learn.
                You fricking moron.

                >But at the last the King grew weary, and Morgoth bore down his shield upon him. Thrice he was crushed to his knees, and thrice arose again and bore up his broken shield and stricken helm. But the earth was all... pitted about him, and he stumbled and fell backward before the feet of Morgoth; and Morgoth set his left foot upon his neck.... Yet with his last and desperate stroke Fingolfin hewed the foot with Ringil, and the blood gushed forth black and smoking and filled the pits of Grond.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                Reading about the Morgoth-Fingolfin fight and seeing how many people online called it epic and cool was one of the first things that started to make me like Tolkien's writing less. Great respect for the man himself, but yeah, his setting's really not as good as I used to think it was IMO.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                This, if the villains were truly jobbers, orcs wouldn't have been created, Saruman wouldn't have fallen and the distant nations of men wouldn't all be sucking Sauron's wiener like a popsicle on a warm summer day.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                I'm a religious man and I don't think Warhammer is edgy enough

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            You're literally downplaying all the suffering, how Beleriand was razed and put to fire, how Thingol's realm and Gondolin were destroyed because you can only focus on shonen power levels and don't catch on the whole meaning of the story.
            What a horrible way to judge stories.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >teams up with only other villain in Arda
            >playing down the significance of having killed the king of elvenkind
            >playing down the significance of the silmarils
            >playing down winning the fight
            >playing down the fall of Gondolin

            Yeah like I said, you’re a disingenuous homosexual obsessed with Shonen-shit, power level, epic Reddit moments. Unironically have a nice day.

            • 2 years ago
              Anonymous

              >strongest bad guy in the setting needs help to do anything and still has to flee rather than fight
              >killed an elf smith who wasn't even a fighter
              >they're literally just israeliteels
              >barely won and was crippled forever, a demigod almost losing to a random fricking elf
              >elves lost one city then came back with a dude in a flying boat and melkor cowered in terror as they annihilated his armies
              Even Sauron's toothless as frick in the out-of-book material. He loses constantly, there's this whole new war in Eriador where he gets slapped around by Elves, and then sucks Numenorean dick because they're so good and strong and mighty and he uses them to try to take Valinor because these mortal guys strike terror into the hearts of the Valar while they just laughed at Melkor, supposedly the villain of the setting.

              Tolkien's villains are utterly fricking toothless, which again is weird considering the mythologies he draws from. Beowulf and King Arthur are great heroes who win frequently, but they don't have a cakewalk of it and their adversaries feel legitimately scary, evil, and difficult to overcome, which makes their heroism seem even greater. Melkor or Sauron getting their teeth punched out and crying and begging for mercy makes the good guys seem like a bunch of bullies more than anything else.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous
    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      It's a boring artificial mythology that ruins all sense of scale for LotR

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      It's a boring artificial mythology that ruins all sense of scale for LotR

      >"if i explore those unvisited vistas, they'll lose their magic and wonder"
      >proceeds to explore those unvisited vistas and kill their magic and wonder
      I never got why Tolkien did this. He didn't even WANT to do it.

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        I mean the book was only ever actually published when his son collected his notes after his death, so did he ever intend them to be released to the general public?

        • 2 years ago
          Anonymous

          It's still not really clear. On one hand supposedly Tolkien really wanted the Silmarillion published and was going to try putting it together eventually. On the other hand Tolkien really wasn't satisfied with his work, even the published stuff, and didn't want to ruin those "unexplored vistas".

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      >just because The Silmarillion is a great book doesn’t mean it’d be a great game
      Thanks for telling everyone you never read it without bringing the issue directly

  6. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    >Well met, lord! Your aid is most welcome, but I ask that you stay your tale, for we are tasked with an urgent errand from Gandalf! We have begged leave from our lords and kin to aid the Grey Pilgrim in acquiring the greenest, dankest longbottom leaf in all of the shire in order to help him make fat blunts for the Council of the Wise. He has explained to us that only through the potent smoke of the halfling herb are the portents of fate revealed to him, and to the council.
    How does the elf lord respond?

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      By song

      A wish to smoke,
      Upon the leaf,
      For when I toke,
      My stress is sheathed,

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        What's "dude weed lmao" in Sindarin?

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        Grown far away on a Valinor bush
        A gift from the heavens, dank-ass kush

        • 2 years ago
          Anonymous

          Alas, but we are second-born, and it is not our place to blast such immaculate bud.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Frick that. I will smoke Hobbitgrass because Bandyfloofs sell it at the general store. Next to the butter, sugar, and pipeweed. And of course you can't stop people from the Burning Elfwoad. Elves are too high on Elf farts to bother with it, so it ain't confined to the Big BoY RyDe @ Elf-paloozers. Gandalf was cheifing it in The Shire. They say it rips SO hard. Like a phantom boat upside your head. Friggin riggin Venus style. The imaginal shipwreck, is definitive in a phantasmic preview. Reverberation is the only recourse, else why did Tolkien put such effort into highlighting the wonder of Gandalf within the parlor? Why focus on the jovian comforts of the Shire, where the Wise fire crack and release hot explosions to joy of entire simple villages?

            Tolkien must have wanted to spark inquiry, and no token measure. If only the hot thrust of his pen had penetrated more deeply into the matters of Hobbit and Istari intercourse. We must begin where Tolkien himself invited questions in his redoubtable way -- the way of suggestive illustration.

            Of course the Wise are fond of both enquiry and illustrations, as Gandalf can attest. The same can even be said of Saruman, the pitiable Smoker of Many Colors -- foreign to the sundry of Middle Earth. But the remaining potable agents, whether sticky or icky, sap or shrooms, point us towards a more intensive examination of the overall mythos. Pertinent questions arise, those beyond the central story, yet of appreciative internal referentive value: What does Sackville-bags mean in the old tongue, and what relevance does it have on the subject of fillacious hobbit ladies of negotiable affections? How many tokes does she need before she jacks your gravy boat?

            These are the scholarly inquires central to the deeper narrative. How can we appreciate the merry and gay comestibles of Ol'Tom w/o comparison to Radagast'd brown and the animistic passions therein? Fund my shitpoast, catamites.

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      >For the duration of the song, your characters must roll a save at DC 20 per every interleaving into or out of the iambic meter. Every result below the DC will trigger a 1d6 roll on the Deeply Touched By Emotion table. Effects can include manly tears, marvelous visions of being subservient to Elves etc. You are, as always, encouraged to affectively roleplay any results at the table. Though I caution you that even crying should not be loud enough to interrupt Forlingofelaenorldoran's 20 paragraph song of greeting. As I have personally felt moved during the composition, know that any 5000 word essay of any visions experienced will now be worth half an XP point. Additionally, every 50 tasteful references to the mythology of my world used in your visions essay is worth another half XP point. Be aware that each reference must predate your mortal characters by no less than 8 millennia -- I do hope you appreciate the increase in rewarded points. The lyrics are quite moving, as you'll see. Now let us begin...

      OPhomie was correct for once, who knew?

      This.

  7. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    tolkien may not have been a great GM but it's not like the books are him GMing
    however if I was playing a game that actually mechanically involved the players and GM going back and forth narrating in **short** segments I'd be cool with stuff like hearing the history of the woods through a poem and an elf singing a song
    if I wasn't cool with it, I would simply not play such a game

  8. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    I love it

  9. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    >mfw my dm made several fricking languages
    >mfw he made a world just to justify his languages existing
    >he refuses to translate
    >he only speaks fricking elvish when DM'ing
    >wtf is he saying

  10. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    Sauron did nothing wrong and deserved to win lotr. Change my mind.

  11. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    I really wish Amazon wasn't making that abomination we could actually have a good version of that story.

  12. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    >his group doesn't smoke cigs at the table
    ngmi

  13. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    Who's the Drizzt of the Tolkien universe?

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      Feanor.

  14. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    He didn't say that!

  15. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    >be Mandos
    >basically god of death
    >the daughter of Thingol trespasses in your realm
    >wants her mortal boy toy brought back to life or something
    >no
    >she asks nicely
    >no
    >she sings a song to you about how much she loves him
    >hmmm okay sure
    Why are the Valar such push overs

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      Literally Tolkien's self-insert fic.

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        I can see Tolkien coming up with the tale of Beren and Luthien and saying to himself "Yes I'm going to give him an elven waifu who crosses the realm of death to cry at the feet of a god for him"

        • 2 years ago
          Anonymous

          The cathabasis is one of the oldest form of myth and is present in many different cultures around the world, from ancient Greece to Japan.
          Even the Comedy by Dante could be seen as an elaburate cathabasis myth.

          So if you're writing your own myths taking inspiration from that might seem like a good idea.

        • 2 years ago
          Anonymous

          I'm guessing he was writing that story one handed, Catholicism or no.

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      Songs are literally magic. Because poetry is literally magic. The subtext is she magic dueled him just like in Devi Went Down to Georgia and won.

  16. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    He literally did nothing wrong.

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      He didn't behead Sauron and enslave his empire.

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      >Tries to invade the Middle-earth equivalent of heaven that was under the protection of immortal beings and God himself

      How did he think that was going to work out?

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        The dumbest part is the Valar are terrified of him and have to beg Eru to intervene. It's really one of the biggest dumb-moments in the setting's history where the big bad villain we're supposed to think is the scary evil threat to everything is a completely wimpy chump compared to some regular mortal humans.

        • 2 years ago
          Anonymous

          The Valar weren't scared of him, it's because after the Beleriand debacle they were extremely paranoid of actually personally killing anything again.

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        Given that they're gigantic pussies, I'd imagine pretty well.

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        It was a peak human moment.

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      >King Cousinfricker did nothing wrong

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        Cousin-fricking is 100% halal, infidel.

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      Do you think he raped Sauron to assert his dominance?

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        I mean, obviously. The real question is did Sauron like it?

  17. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    HEY SUP FARLS YOU SEXY DICKHEAD, WE WERE IN THE MIDDLE OF SOMETHING HERE.
    YEAH BUT SERIOUSLY FARLS, "GO FEEL AN OLD ORAN-GUTAN" SOMEWHERE ELSE, ALRIGHT?

  18. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    Reminder Tolkien was based.

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      The ending always gets me

  19. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    >His visage is magnificient, and you are all compelled to kneel in reverence at his ancient splendour.
    >"Hail!" He says to you, and he begins to sing a song explaining who he is.

    This is, truly, not even exaggerated. Pic related is the first meeting of men and elves (other than exiled elf randos) in Middle-Earth, in the Silmarillion.
    >elf hears crude singing
    >initially thinks it is orcs
    >realises it is different and hides and waits till dark among the men until they are all sleeping
    >creeps into their camp and starts singing
    >the men are all awed by this and listen respectfully

    I also want to remind you Feanor died without ever meeting a human. He would have been racist as frick against men and you know it.

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      Elves being everywhere and better at everything was apparently tiresome even for some of Tolkien's friends.

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        Didn't Lewis advise him to tone it down?

        • 2 years ago
          Anonymous

          [...]
          >Dyson's actual comment, bowdlerized in the TV version, was "Not another fricking Elf!"

          Several of his friends didn't like the focus on Elves, but Dyson disliked them the most. IIRC Lewis wasn't as annoyed by them but did still advise Tolkien that he gave them too much of a spotlight, which really is a problem at several points in the story. Aragorn, Gandalf, Frodo, and the Nazgul all get completely outshined when Glorfindel shows up.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            It's vague but Dyson definitely said "Not another fricking elf!" at some point, and less guaranteed as it's not 100% sourced, Lewis said when Tolkien asked about a new chapter "As long as it's not about more elves."

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Any reason why he was such an elfabo? The elves in the mythologies he loved were nothing like the folks he wrote.

            • 2 years ago
              Anonymous

              I don't think he really meant it to be like that. Obviously we didn't have concepts like "x wank" or "-abooism" back then, so he probably didn't really think he was even doing much bad even if a few of his friends thought of it as such. Some of them also loved his stories, elves and all, so it's not like all his feedback was negative.

              Personally I admire Tolkien as a man and as a linguist and historian, and I think his worldbuilding in a physical sense, the actual world and its details, is stellar. His worldbuilding as in histories and characters, as well as dialogue and overall storytelling, was pretty poor. He's still leagues better than any modern fantasy author though.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                Tokien's writing is exceptional if only for his choice of and use of language. It's weird that I rate him higher than you as an author and utterly disagree no modern fantasy author is his equal, though.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                No fantasy writer's been as good as Tolkien since Tolkien. The only two major ones that I can think of off the top of my head are Wheel of Time, which is just boring and bland injected with the writer's femdom fetish, and Game of Thrones, which is just edgy and juvenile injected with multiple writer fetishes.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                >No fantasy writer's been as good as Tolkien since Tolkien
                What have you actually read outside of big name series like GoT and WoT?

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                That's all he needs to read because that's all there are. Anything else is just some homosexuals trash.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                This is probably just baiting, but any consideration of post-Tolkien fantasy that skips over LeGuin and Wolfe isn't worth shit.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                LeGuin isn't worth shit and shouldn't be named alongside writers like Wolfe, Vance and Leiber.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                Sounds like you have politics disease!

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                No, if anything LeGuin fans have it.
                There's nothing of value in her writing even counting the original Earthsea before she shat all over it with Tehanu.
                She's a hack writer that was only ever pushed because of convention politics, not actual quality of her writing.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                Her Hainish stuff is usually good but I didn't much care for anything else. I agree she doesn't compare well to Wolfe. Her style's so different from Vance or even Leiber that I don't think it really merits comparison.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                Tombs of Atuan is a pretty good book. I'm not even wild about Earthsea as a whole, but that one's very well written IMO.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                I honestly think Howard was much better, but Conan was famous long before LOTR

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        Tolkien's elves were best in the Hobbit, where they were whimsical, kinda buttholes, but ultimately good or at least reasonable.

        • 2 years ago
          Anonymous

          In The Hobbit they also weren't invincible killing machines. They almost lost at Five Armies until reinforcements and Beorn arrived, unlike LOTR onward Elves where a few Galadhrim could solo entire orc armies.

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        Didn't Lewis advise him to tone it down?

        >Dyson's actual comment, bowdlerized in the TV version, was "Not another fricking Elf!"

        • 2 years ago
          Anonymous

          Source?

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Christopher Tolkien's book apparently.

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      >I also want to remind you Feanor died without ever meeting a human. He would have been racist as frick against men and you know it.
      Well, yeah, one of his many correct arguments was that the Valar had led the elves away into servitude so that men could grab the earth for themselves.

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      It wouldn't be so bad if he didn't keep insisting on writing them as beacons of eternal purity, like refusing to let Galadriel be part of the kinslaying when she obviously should have been. Would have made her later development and humbling much more meaningful.

  20. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    lel

  21. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    Wow, take my updoot!

  22. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    If you want to talk about IRL religion please take it to a related board. I came to this thread for the LotR shitposts.

    Your debate about God isn't interesting, and neither of you are saying anything new or informative.

  23. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    >I came here for the religious discussions

  24. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    >A lone elf fought multiple balrogs and only lost because he burned himself with his own anger. Balrogs, the ones who 1v1 could fight Gandalf, a Maiar, couldn't as a large collective beat an elf.

    Feanor is explicitly stated to be the most gifted among the Children of Eru. He's THE best fighter, smith, and scholar, and there could be no one like him.

    And he still loses due to his immense pride.

  25. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    I'll never understand why /tg/ hated elves
    What's even weirder is when /tg/ takes elf stereotypes they found somewhere else and then try to retroactively apply it to tolkien.
    Honestly do any of you guys even read books
    Your criticism of elves are laughable and fall on deaf ears for anyone whose read them

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      Because /tg/ is full of stumped, fat middle-aged alcholics from Reddit so they identify with dwarves, and they read on that other side that dwarves are supposed to hate elves (even though it's not the case in LOTR, there's some distrust due to a few mutual betrayals but no outright hatred).

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      We're on Ganker.

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      >I hate Tolkien
      Why?
      >elves are too strong
      well, they're not. And -
      >God I hate elves 'angryaboutelves.jpg' they're such homosexual losers effeminate weirdos frick elves frick trees frick singing they all sing and cry over trees it's fricking stupid little priss rich kids homosexuals they make no sense i was playing this video game and the elf was such a b***h I killed him fricking wienersucker everything should be like a video game where every races has pros and cons but all level out to be equal tolkien is a gayhot elfaboo loser b***h who loves those moronic twinks

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      You need to go back.

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      Because late 2E and early 3E wanking of elves that amounted to moronic FR shit without the sensible parts.
      >i'm a treehugging hippie who is better at everything also i'm not like those xenophobic myth drannor elves but humans are inferior in every sense also i'm a woe is me character
      Basically imagine all the shit people who play tieflings, kobolds and the assorted alphabet races 5E introduced all rolled into one because most DMs wouldn't allow their snowflake races.
      Prior to late-2E there wasn't much issue with Elves.

      On /tg/ the memes started with 3.5E shitposting and KODP let's plays where the tribe ring has posts about not trusting elves.

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      I don't hate elves
      I jerk off to big tiddy Houtengeki elves, who are also my inspiration for shitposting
      I've read the original LOTR trilogy and The Hobbit and have no interest in getting into Tolkien's unpublished wankery so I can get into meaningless "uhm... Akshually" debates with the likes of you.
      This board is shit because it bears the closest resemblance to Twitter and Reddit of all boards on this website. It's full of people so enamored with their own perceived intelligence that they can't help but get angry over anyone who disagrees with them, this is the board that declared "fun" a buzzword after all. You're not entirely to blame though, the toxic board culture is downstream of the inconsistent moderation by jannies with an obvious progressive bias (much like Reddit, where over 100 of the top 500 boards are moderated by the same 6 power mods).

      Don't bother responding for the following three reasons:
      1. I am correct, I know this because I have given this a lot of thought.
      2. I've seen the calibre of "discussion" here, it's just Twitter with a higher character limit. While I am open to having my mind changed, you are simply incapable of doing it. All you can do is provoke, but I am beyond petty anger.
      3. Don't even bother with replying "based", I am fully aware of how based I am.

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        >this is the board that declared "fun" a buzzword after all
        That was Ganker.

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      I don't hate elves, I hate when they're wanked off so hard. Tolkien elves are so overpowered that any tension dies the second they show up.

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        Where do you get this impression from?

        • 2 years ago
          Anonymous

          I think it was when Legolas one-shot the balrog that I stopped reading.

        • 2 years ago
          Anonymous

          Because every time an elf shows up the tension dies.
          >oh no the nazgul even gandalf fears them!
          >but its okay glorfindel's here and he could solo all of them
          >oh no the armies of angmar are invading eriador!
          >but its okay some elves show up and annihilate them
          >oh no it's the demigod melkor!
          >but its okay elves are here and fingolfin rapes him
          >oh no ancalagon a giant dragon help!!
          >but its okay earendil in a flying fishing boat is here and he kills him and every other dragon

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            In the event where Fingolfin confronts Morgoth, the elves literally decisively lost the battle, several kings die, they fall back for several hundred years because they got their asses reamed. Fingolfin, while heroic, is petulant and suicidal, and should have been regathering his forces instead of pulling an ego move. He get ground into a paste for his troubles. Yes, he inflicts wounds on an immortal being, but the story of Fingolfin is ultimately tragic and stupid, and in no way should be called a victory, so stop pretending like it is.

            • 2 years ago
              Anonymous

              Morgoth launches a surprise attack after getting BTFO so badly by elves he has to hide in his fortress for centuries, and even then he takes heavy losses, can't complete all his objectives, and Fingolfin rides up to his fortress directly, ALL of Morgoth's armies scatter and run from him, Morgoth is afraid to fight him, and gets the shit beaten out of him to the point he doesn't even beat Fingolfin by fighting him, Fingolfin trips and falls and that's when Morgoth can beat him. Then for some fricking reason an eagle shows up, again in Morgoth's fortress not stopped or hindered by anything, tears up Morgoth's face (Morgoth the evil demigod of the setting being unable to fight a bird, of course), grabs Fingolfin's body and leaves. Morgoth is a fricking joke of a villain and elves are parody-tier overpowered.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            A lone elf beat the shit out of the biggest bad in the setting.
            A lone elf fought multiple balrogs and only lost because he burned himself with his own anger. Balrogs, the ones who 1v1 could fight Gandalf, a Maiar, couldn't as a large collective beat an elf.
            An elf wardog beat Sauron near to death.
            Glorfindel terrifies all nine Nazgul. The Nazgul, ringwraiths that scare the others and the Witch-king who may've been a 1-1 match for Gandalf the White, but all nine couldn't hope to beat an elf.

            >The Nazgul, ringwraiths that scare the others and the Witch-king who may've been a 1-1 match for Gandalf the White
            >oh no the nazgul even gandalf fears them!
            Yeah no, Gandalf the Grey 9v1 the Nazgul on Weathertop couple days before Aragorn+midgets reached it and won.

            • 2 years ago
              Anonymous

              That doesn't make it better.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                It just tells everyone what kind of subhuman you are if you'ren't even capable of even getting this fact right.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                >muh nazgul
                You gays know that the guy openly stated that Nazgul's are just shitty ghosts who's main power is to inspire fear?
                >Their peril is almost entirely due to the
                unreasoning fear which they inspire (like ghosts). They have no great physical power against the fearless; but what they have, and
                the fear that they inspire, is enormously increased in darkness. The Witch-king, their leader, is more powerful in all ways than the
                others; but he must not yet be raised to the stature of Vol. III. There, put in command by Sauron, he is given an added demonic force.
                But even in the Battle of the Pelennor, the darkness had only just broken.

                Again, this is worse.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                I know that you have brain damage, but raw strength isn't thw function of the Ringwraiths. Notice that he did not hand Rings to legendary warriors or generals, but to kings and rulers, so he could enslave them. Also, Wraiths are tools of fear. Sure, they don't have unga bunga Hercules strength capable of leveling mountains, but they inspire pure, incapacitating terror in 99.99% of the world's population, which is way more useful. If Sauron wants something dead, he can send an actual army.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                >it's actually fine that the villain has no actual power whatsoever and solely relies on your fear so if you don't fear him he's as dangerous as a newborn mouse to you
                Even Freddy doesn't become that weak if you aren't scared of him.
                >If Sauron wants something dead, he can send an actual army.
                Clearly not considering Sauron's armies lose every single engagement they ever fight.

            • 2 years ago
              Anonymous

              That makes it worse.

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        I dont see whats wrong with having a race thats just better. I think that's way cooler of an idea than the video gamey stuff where everyone has to be balanced equal. and tolkien's elves aren't even all that strong.

        Because late 2E and early 3E wanking of elves that amounted to moronic FR shit without the sensible parts.
        >i'm a treehugging hippie who is better at everything also i'm not like those xenophobic myth drannor elves but humans are inferior in every sense also i'm a woe is me character
        Basically imagine all the shit people who play tieflings, kobolds and the assorted alphabet races 5E introduced all rolled into one because most DMs wouldn't allow their snowflake races.
        Prior to late-2E there wasn't much issue with Elves.

        On /tg/ the memes started with 3.5E shitposting and KODP let's plays where the tribe ring has posts about not trusting elves.

        literally what the frick does any of that have to do with tolkien

  26. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    Looks like I ended up in the AoS lore thread by mistake, my bad.

  27. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    >Lone anon BTFOing Christcucks, Tolkeintrannies, and elf homosexuals.
    Ummm based?

  28. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    I'm sorry I didn't roll for insight check, and I'm sure as hell even if I roll it wouldn't be a fricking 20.

  29. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    >25 attacks per turn is high in 5e
    kek...I had a monk making 22 per turn at 12th level
    In paizo I played a bloodrager that could make 23 at 16th level

  30. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    I swear to god Tolkien, if that one weird ass creature that you wouldn't let us kill ends up being the one who destroys the ring I am going to shit on your lawn.

  31. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    >muh nazgul
    You gays know that the guy openly stated that Nazgul's are just shitty ghosts who's main power is to inspire fear?
    >Their peril is almost entirely due to the
    unreasoning fear which they inspire (like ghosts). They have no great physical power against the fearless; but what they have, and
    the fear that they inspire, is enormously increased in darkness. The Witch-king, their leader, is more powerful in all ways than the
    others; but he must not yet be raised to the stature of Vol. III. There, put in command by Sauron, he is given an added demonic force.
    But even in the Battle of the Pelennor, the darkness had only just broken.

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      A) That’s a shitty decision.
      B) The witch king broke Frodo’s magic anti-Annmarie sword by waving at it.

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        >anti-Annmarie
        Anti-Angmar. Fricking autocorrect.

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      A) That’s a shitty decision.
      B) The witch king broke Frodo’s magic anti-Annmarie sword by waving at it.

      >the nazgul can't be harmed by regular weapons and are very strong
      >lose to gandalf 9v1, don't even fight glorfindel because he could kill them all easily, lose to aragorn 9v1 despite him having only regular weapons
      I forgot how stupidly inconsistent the Nazgul and their writing are. Really, I like Tolkien's physical worldbuilding but there've never been worse villains put to paper except maybe Chaos in Warhammer, because they're the opposite side of the problem - hyper-overpowered villains instead of hyper-underpowered villains.

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        *worse villains in terms of either being way too non-threatening

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        >I forgot how stupidly inconsistent the Nazgul and their writing are.
        They aren't, Nazgul are consistently shown as ghosts who's main strengths are the dread they cause among people, their ability to move around either relatively unnoticed when mounted on horses or extremely fast when on a pterodactyl, poisoned weapons they are armed with, and their absolute loyalty to their master. In return however you are stuck with a bunch of ghosts that aren't physically any stronger than regular humans and rely on their robes and armor to have enough presence in the physical world to do really anything and thus get wrecked if set ablaze, wiped downstream by a mass of floodwater, shot down by some inbred hick elf, etc. The only people they are really overwhelming threat to are Hobbits and those who get wrecked by the dread field and thus unable to fight against them. This is consistent in LotR; undead ghost things are scary as frick but not really all that dangerous. Barrowights - scary as frick but not really that dangerous, Nazgul - scary as frick but not really that dangerous, Army of the Dead - scary as frick but dangerous at all

        • 2 years ago
          Anonymous

          >Proving my point that the villains are too non-threatening for me
          Are you on my side or not?

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            I am the guy calling you a subhuman for failing to realize that Sauron's main threat isn't being a big punch monster but rather being an immortal who has hundreds of thousands if not million troops under his command facing off against states that put together might be able scrape together maybe 40-50 thousand men.

            • 2 years ago
              Anonymous

              >an immortal who has hundreds of thousands if not million troops under his command facing off against states that put together might be able scrape together maybe 40-50 thousand men
              An immortal who can get laid out by a single elf with a million orcs who have a roughly 1 - 100,000 KD ratio against elves, elves who could at any time go over and destroy him or ask their bros across the sea to do it for them.

            • 2 years ago
              Anonymous

              I'm calling you subhuman for failing to realize that making the bad guy and his primary henchmen punching bags makes for a poor story. If the Nazgul can't just swarm over and stab Aragon to death when they've got him 9-1 then what's the fricking point?

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                Not this anon but remember the Nazgul are explicitly said to be Sauron's most powerful servants, and they're literally just woooOOoooooOOOOoo ghosts who get their asses kicked the second anyone tries.

                Melkor, Sauron, and the Witch-king are horrible villains. They're evil, but they aren't smart, they don't have any plans, and they never accomplish anything, they're just powerless dweebs who get punched around by everyone and everything.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                That why, as much as people hated it, I actually appreciated Jackson giving the Witch King the magical win against Gandalf. It may defy the book, but it actually gives the dude some credibility.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                Yes, the Ringwraiths are more badass in the movies. I mean, it only took four of them to kill that old, unarmed and unprepared gatekeeper in Bree. Come to think of it, that old fart is 100% of all kills the Nazgûls do in the whole movie triology. Truly hardcore villains. Many such cases.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                >9-1
                5v1, if you Black person had read the book you would know that 4 were still shadowing Gandalf to Rivendell at that point.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                Oh yeah, that makes it so much better that two or three of them can't tie up his weapons while one runs him through from behind like five ordinary peasants with pitchforks could manage.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                And it makes even less sense when you consider the Nazgul are supposed immune to mundane weapons yet consistently show fear of and lose to people with mundane weapons. It is ridiculously inconsistent like a lot of stuff in LOTR, the only consistencies being that Elves are unstoppable ubermensch and Melkor and his servants are brainless, spineless, tough-as-wet-toilet-paper jobbers.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                The whole 9 attacked Gandalf and then Aragorn later, and lost both times. They didn't even try to fight Glorfindel and just ran from him.

        • 2 years ago
          Anonymous

          So "the greatest of all Sauron's servants" are actually comparable to dudes wearing cartoon ghost sheets and going "woooooooo" at people? Really making a good case for LOTR here.

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        You're actually illiterite.
        >Nazgul can't be harmed by conventional weapons.
        Correct, only a great warrior can challenge them once they're separated.
        >Lose to Gandalf 9v1
        Yup
        >Don't fight Glorf 9v1 bc they're scared
        Gandalf says Glorf would have lost, Aragorn with him, they're powered up when they're together
        >lose to Aragorn 9v1
        5v5 moron, the Witch King just got stabbed by a barrow blade and was made vulnerable, all the other hobbits are armed with such, they retreated because why wouldn't they? They just discovered they could be killed in what should have been an easy assasination.
        You are actually too stupid for this you are a GoT season 5-8 fan. You read bargain-bin Fantasy romance novels written by femcel horndogs. You don't own anything produced by GW because assembling the models was too hard for you.

        • 2 years ago
          Anonymous

          >only a great warrior can challenge them once they're separated.
          So which is it? Can they not be harmed by regular weapons or can they be harmed by regular weapons depending on plot fiat?
          >Gandalf says Glorf would have lost, Aragorn with him, they're powered up when they're together
          Gandalf's wrong, because we know Aragorn beats them off 9v1 and they all flee from Glorfindel because they're scared of him. A character saying something in-character is outweighed by actual details on the setting given omnisciently.
          >the Witch King just got stabbed by a barrow blade and was made vulnerable, all the other hobbits are armed with such, they retreated because why wouldn't they?
          He was stabbed by one Hobbit with a sword, the rest couldn't hurt him, and it was just him and the 8 versus Aragorn since Frodo was out from being stabbed himself. With "flaming brands" Aragorn drives them off alone. They could've stayed to kill Frodo since that was, you know, their fricking objective.
          >You are actually too stupid for this you are a GoT season 5-8 fan. You read bargain-bin Fantasy romance novels written by femcel horndogs. You don't own anything produced by GW because assembling the models was too hard for you.
          I hate Game of Thrones and GRRM's writing, and I hate bargain bin LEGEND OF GALVARAD'S CRYSTAL THE DARKENING etc. generic femfantasy shit. I also think GW's a shitty company of shitty people and have no interest in any of their properties, though I'm not sure what that has to do with anything or what you've even saying, or why you're even posting aside from wanting to add some dumb coomer shit to the thread via that pic.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Conventional weapons are an important distinction, a powerful elf blade or Anduril could probably do it, the barrow blades definitely. The great hero bit is impprtant because killing a nazgul kills you, like Eowyn and Merry without the Kings Foil.
            >Gandalf's wrong
            No, you made that up
            >Aragorn 9v1
            There are only 5 wraiths in the attack on Frodo are you moronic? Even a fat british slob like Peter Jackson got that part right and you can't?? Their leader could be killed by the king of men they tactically retreat.
            >The other hobbits couldn't hurt them
            You declare this almost as factually incorrectly as when you claim all 9 are there.
            >Glorf scares them off
            You made that up, please cite what you're referring to.
            >coomshit
            Stay mad homosexual post the big dicks you like to suck.
            You consume actual shit, you're a low IQ pissant on the internet with no taste, reading, or comprehension skills; fat AND stupid is no way to go through life, you have been wrong on every point you are trying to defend, for some reason. You first must learn how to read, then actually read the shit Tolkien wrote for the first time, you might actually like it.
            You are probably the type of person who thinks lotr is a trilogy.

            • 2 years ago
              Anonymous

              [...]
              Samegayging idiot, read the fricking books, Frodo is described explicitly as stabbing the foot of the king, his blade disintegrates, you actually can't cite anything for the shit you are saying.
              Also.
              >Morgoth, crushing Fingolfin beneath him, receives a sword to the foot
              Yes, I'm sure Morgoth putting his foot there, CRUSHING Fingy had nothing to do with the forxe exerted on the blade, add physics to the shit you need to learn.
              >Elbereth
              ????
              That's with Shelob you dolt

              You do you, buddy. Not samegayging btw.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                >Samegayging idiot, read the fricking books, Frodo is described explicitly as stabbing the foot of the king, his blade disintegrates, you actually can't cite anything for the shit you are saying.
                You absolute fricking moron. Firstly, Elbereth is Sindarin for Varda, the Vala.

                Second, Frodo's stab explicitly only hit his cloak.

                >'Look!' he cried; and stooping he lifted from the ground a black cloak that had lain there hidden by the darkness. A foot above the lower hem there was a slash. 'This was the stroke of Frodo's sword,' he said. 'The only hurt that it did to his enemy, I fear; for it is unharmed, but all blades perish that pierce that dreadful King. More deadly to him was the name of Elbereth.'

                Third, Frodo still has his blade up until the Witch King destroys it at the fords.

                >Then the leader, who was now half across the Ford, stood up menacing in his stirrups, and raised up his hand. Frodo was stricken dumb. He felt his tongue cleave to his mouth, and his heart labouring. His sword broke and fell out of his shaking hand. The elf-horse reared and snorted. The foremost of the black horses had almost set foot upon the shore.

                >Yes, I'm sure Morgoth putting his foot there, CRUSHING Fingy had nothing to do with the forxe exerted on the blade, add physics to the shit you need to learn.
                You fricking moron.

                >But at the last the King grew weary, and Morgoth bore down his shield upon him. Thrice he was crushed to his knees, and thrice arose again and bore up his broken shield and stricken helm. But the earth was all... pitted about him, and he stumbled and fell backward before the feet of Morgoth; and Morgoth set his left foot upon his neck.... Yet with his last and desperate stroke Fingolfin hewed the foot with Ringil, and the blood gushed forth black and smoking and filled the pits of Grond.

                I was wrong, I actually forgot about Frodo shouting Elbereth and The WItch King was seemingly not stabbed, the sword indeed breaks at the ford of Bruinen. I had no idea why you were bringing up Elbereth, as I only remembered him shouting it against Shelob, but he does indeed shout it here too.
                It is the waving of the sword and the tearing of his cloak when the witch king shrieks and stabs Frodo, the goal being to give him a mortal wound with the Morgul knife. The tearing of the cloth is significant though, they almost certainly retreat because of the weapons which could kill them.
                Furthermore, your citation of Fingolfin stabbing Morgoth is also correct.
                However, it was disingenuous to claim that Fingolfin had the upper hand earlier, in no way does he wipe the floor with Morgoth, the very fact that Finglofin puts up a fight is humiliating to Morgoth, the description of the events where Morgoth craters him into the ground further showcases his superiority, in spite of these odds, Fingolfin put up the best fight he had received one on one as a Dark Lord (besides Ungoliant)
                You also left out this: "There were five tall figures: two standing on the lip of the dell, three advancing. In their white faces burned keen and merciless eyes."
                It's also rather disingenuous to not point out when you are wrong, as there were indeed only 5 wraiths and NOT 9 at Weathertop.
                I now realize you are citing Glorfindel's account of encountering the wraiths abroad, where he pursued 3 on a bridge and then 2 later, is there any point where it describes him facing all 9? Still, this does not in any way put him above Gandalf, Glorf can take a of the 9, as can Legolas, Aragorn, and almost certainly Gimli, Boromir, and Faramir, these are some of the greatest heroes in their age after all, but this is not taking on all 9, when they become more powerful, nor is it comparable to the slaying of a Balrog in single combat, which no one but Gandalf achieves decisively.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                >Samegayging idiot, read the fricking books, Frodo is described explicitly as stabbing the foot of the king, his blade disintegrates, you actually can't cite anything for the shit you are saying.
                You absolute fricking moron. Firstly, Elbereth is Sindarin for Varda, the Vala.

                Second, Frodo's stab explicitly only hit his cloak.

                >'Look!' he cried; and stooping he lifted from the ground a black cloak that had lain there hidden by the darkness. A foot above the lower hem there was a slash. 'This was the stroke of Frodo's sword,' he said. 'The only hurt that it did to his enemy, I fear; for it is unharmed, but all blades perish that pierce that dreadful King. More deadly to him was the name of Elbereth.'

                Third, Frodo still has his blade up until the Witch King destroys it at the fords.

                >Then the leader, who was now half across the Ford, stood up menacing in his stirrups, and raised up his hand. Frodo was stricken dumb. He felt his tongue cleave to his mouth, and his heart labouring. His sword broke and fell out of his shaking hand. The elf-horse reared and snorted. The foremost of the black horses had almost set foot upon the shore.

                >Yes, I'm sure Morgoth putting his foot there, CRUSHING Fingy had nothing to do with the forxe exerted on the blade, add physics to the shit you need to learn.
                You fricking moron.

                >But at the last the King grew weary, and Morgoth bore down his shield upon him. Thrice he was crushed to his knees, and thrice arose again and bore up his broken shield and stricken helm. But the earth was all... pitted about him, and he stumbled and fell backward before the feet of Morgoth; and Morgoth set his left foot upon his neck.... Yet with his last and desperate stroke Fingolfin hewed the foot with Ringil, and the blood gushed forth black and smoking and filled the pits of Grond.

                Morgoth is described as colossal though, there really isn't any way he is going to not be crushing Fingy, even is shapeshifted down to Sauron's size for their fight for some reason.
                But he stabbed his foot and died, after putting up a good fight, why does this make elves OP? They are powerful, but nothing compared to Maiar.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                Fingolfin makes Morgoth's armies run and Morgoth barely manages to beat him. He also gets effortlessly tossed around by Tulkas and is constantly afraid of men and elves, and constantly losing to them. Overpowered elves are part of the problem, but the overall problem itself is Tolkien's villains are weak to the point of being nonthreatening, which kills any sort of tension in the story.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                It's even worse than the Silm in Unfinished Tales, or Lost Tales, I forget which one. Granted it was early stuff and Tolkien did apparently buff Melkor, but in the old drafts when he was Melko Manwe comes to him and Tolkien charges him with a magic flail, and Manwe literally just smiles and waves his hand and the flail breaks and Melkor falls powerlessly to the floor.

                I like to think Tolkien given enough time would've come to bring all his villains up a bit, or bring the heroes down, but we'll never know.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                In Unfinished Tales Sauron also gets his ass handed to him multiple times by Elrond. I know it was never meant to be published, but it really turns Sauron into a colossal fricking moron that can't fight and can't lead. He gets outmaneuvered and his armies annihilated by Elves over and over again.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                Wizard > elf should be the natural order of things. Tolkien reached too far in his elfrrogance

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                Nah, elves should be the ones who teach the wizards

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                >Elves should teach the Jesus expys

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                Well Elrond is 1/9th angel or some such.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                He didn't barely win, Morgoth dominated, as for fighting his army, he better be able to, he fights Morgoth after all.
                Tulkas fights Morgoth AFTER he has exhausted his power from fighting ALL OF THE VALAR, somthing which is vague is how power works in LOTR, Saruman runs out of it after raising an army, but Sauron finds a way to preserve his with the ring. In the world of LOTR the side of good will triumph over evil, because christianity, there is nothing OP about the good guys earning a victory over evil, you act like because Sauron and Morgoth lost to legends as fearsome as they are in a bygone age once or twice that they are weak. This isn't DBZ we're talking about, there are extenuating circumstances around each situation.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                I want the good guys to eventually win too, and as a guy who believes in the Lord, I'm not opposed to that idea at all. I think though that in a fantasy story you need powerful villains for the heroes to overcome, otherwise their struggle isn't heroic. Beowulf and Arthur wouldn't be heroes if they just walked over their enemies like door rugs.

                A better way IMO, and how I'd have handled the Fingolfin story, is that Melkor's pride is what cripples him. He tells his armies to ignore Fingolfin, and when Fingolfin challenges him he happily accepts. With all Fingolfin's might he can't even land a single hit on Melkor, and even if he does it seems to do no damage. Melkor laughs and cackles all the while, and Fingolfin grows frustrated and tired. Melkor swings down his hammer and flames shoot into the sky, and Fingolfin narrowly dodges his blows. Finally, Fingolfin is exhausted and falls into a pit. Melkor steps up, taking his time, savoring humiliating the elf-lord, and it's in this delay that Fingolfin strikes, hitting him in the foot and giving him a deadly wound, all because Melkor let his guard down and became prideful. Melkor never feared Fingolfin, and Fingolfin was never even close to a threat to him... but his pride still brought about great suffering to himself, and Melkor was humbled.

                To me, that'd have been significantly more heroic and cool than the fight we got where Melkor is scared to fight and spends most of the time screaming like a b***h as he takes wound after wound.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                >This isn't DBZ we're talking about
                Gandalf dies and comes back with a color change power up. Apparently this IS DBZ. NTA btw.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                "Glorf can take a few of the 9" I left out "few" making the sentence unclear.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                >When the Riders swept by, your friends ran up behind. Close to the Ford there is a small hollow beside the road masked by a few stunted trees. There they hastily kindled fire; for Glorfindel knew that a flood would come down, if the Riders tried to cross, and then he would have to deal with any that were left on his side of the river. The moment the flood appeared, he rushed out, followed by Aragorn and the others with flaming brands. Caught between fire and water, and seeing an Elf-lord revealed in his wrath, 1 they were dismayed, and their horses were stricken with madness.

                I got a few things from Flight to the Ford.
                First, the Witch-King and two others were already washed away.
                Second, the Nazgul have a fear of fire, which both Aragorn's party and Gandalf used to their advantage previously.
                Third, Glorfindel was a special case. Glorfindel could potentially defeat them, as he dwelt in both the material and immaterial worlds at once.

                I think that facing Glorfindel, Aragorn, fire, and water made them panic. Glorfindel could conceivably stand against any given Nazgul since he banished the Witch-King in his first incarnation, but even his dual-nature was insufficient to kill them. That said, I think that most of the champions in the setting would stand little chance against even one in the same way that a fighter stands little chance against a ghost without specific equipment. Legolas, Gimli, and Faramir did not have the immaterial presence of Glorfindel or the baneful weapons of Gondolin, so they would only have been able to withstand Nazgul by fire and the invocation of Elbereth.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                As was originally said, Glorfindel shows up and immediately all tension is gone and he takes away from the spotlight or agency of everyone else.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                I am doubtful that Glorfindel could stand against all nine at once. They were only six, they had already panicked, and they weren't JUST facing Glorfindel - they had a choice of getting washed away or facing down Glorfindel and fire. Glorfindel isn't Goku dunking on Sauron's Ginyu Force; he's a fine warrior, but so is Aragorn. Glorfindel just wields quasi-holy power against evil beings of modest unholy power. Nor does he play a terribly large part, since the Nazgul ignored him and chased Frodo, which is why the tension isn't lost - it's Nazgul against Hobbit, not Nazgul against Glorfindel. Unless you think that the tension wasn't already resolved with the flood, all that Glorfindel did was complete their route.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                >it's Nazgul against Hobbit, not Nazgul against Glorfindel
                Until you remember that all Frodo has to do is let Glorfindel kill them all.
                >They were only six, they had already panicked, and they weren't JUST facing Glorfindel
                We don't know if it was only six, but we know for a fact he met 5 of them solo and they ran away from him. Khamul ran from him once and told the Witch-king, and though he and the Witch-king were the strongest Nazgul and the Witch-king had a third wraith with him, he still wouldn't go near Glorfindel.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                >We don't know if it was only six...
                Sure we do; three were caught in the flood.
                >At that moment there came a roaring... noise of loud waters rolling many stones.... The three Riders that were still in the midst of the Ford... disappeared, buried suddenly under angry foam. Those that were behind drew back in dismay.

                Why did Frodo leave? Because Glorfindel was not the objective. The Nazgul were comfortable enough pursuing the company even with Glorfindel present. The threat, the tension, was their pursuit of the Ring and its fast-fading bearer. If Frodo fades, the Ring is Sauron's. If the Nazgul seize it, the Ring is Sauron's. So the tension is not contingent on the Nazgul being a theat to Glorfindel any more than it is contingent on Gollum being a threat to Faramir.
                I somewhat understand the DBZ complaint since there's this obsession with putting two sides in a room and seeing which one comes out on top. It's a bit like saying that Hitler couldn't solo some Red Army mooks, so he wasn't a real antagonist, even though Hitler's ability to personally kill you had nothing to do with the threat that he posed. "Power" doesn't always mean "personally has more dakka." Assassins don't always need to be Entreri, Riven, or a Callidus. I feel like we're conflating later works with Tolkien because of the influence, sticking archetypes and tropes on top of Lord of the Rings that don't apply. The role of the antagonists in Lord of the Rings is to ruin and corrupt things that are good, not to be the highest-level CR in the campaign. We're drawing comparisons to characters that aren't really analogues except that they're "fantasy" and downstream of Tolkien.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                >If Frodo fades, the Ring is Sauron's
                Step One: Take Ring off Frodo's chain.
                Step Two: Hand Ring to literally anyone else in the group.

                How now brown cow?

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                Yeah, because everyone in the party would prefer Frodo becoming an undead thrall to just...putting him on a horse. Ring safe, Frodo safe, and stable geosynchronous orbit achieved because apparently this is rocket science.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                I'm talking about from the Nazgul pov, you idiot. Are they unaware that the remainder of the party has functional hands?

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                Fair point; sorry about the unnecessary snark. I don't think we have any evidence of the Nazgul's point of view, but the tension of the story - since the complaint was that the villains don't impart any tension - comes from the threat to the characters, who love Frodo and fear Sauron and his servants. The tension is the risk of losing Frodo and the Ring. It's released if those events occur or if Frodo makes it to safety.

                Either way, Glorfindel's ability or lack thereof does nothing to resolve that tension in the events that follow.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                >Btfo by fire
                >It isn't even magic fire
                Serializing Frankenstein was a mistake.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                Well said, but with sufficient weaponry I think Legolas, Gimli, Boromir, and Faramir could take a Wraith. As for Glorf taking all 9, I don't think we are going to get any harder evidence than Gandalf saying no he couldn't do it even with Aragorn. However, I also think Gandalf's assertion of Tom Bombadil is wrong, so who knows. I do disagree about Glorf stealing the spotlight, he's only there a few pages and the mere description of him is by no means stealing the spotlight. He has an auroa of old like Galadriel, he has power, so naturally attention is paid to him.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                >I was wrong, I actually forgot about Frodo shouting Elbereth and The WItch King was seemingly not stabbed, the sword indeed breaks at the ford of Bruinen. I had no idea why you were bringing up Elbereth, as I only remembered him shouting it against Shelob, but he does indeed shout it here too.
                Because you bullshited and said that Frodo had stabbed the Witch King which drove him back, when he explicitly didn't. The villain's top henchmen got spooked by a fricking name.

                >It is the waving of the sword and the tearing of his cloak when the witch king shrieks and stabs Frodo, the goal being to give him a mortal wound with the Morgul knife. The tearing of the cloth is significant though, they almost certainly retreat because of the weapons which could kill them.
                The goal is to get the Ring. Why would they not be able to just take the Ring off wraith-Frodo while he turns and give it to someone else?

                >Furthermore, your citation of Fingolfin stabbing Morgoth is also correct.
                No shit.

                >Fingolfin put up the best fight he had received one on one as a Dark Lord (besides Ungoliant)
                It was literally the only time he fought an armed opponent, ever.

                >It's also rather disingenuous to not point out when you are wrong, as there were indeed only 5 wraiths and NOT 9 at Weathertop.
                Five drugged up hobos could have defeated Aragon, simply by mobbing him from all sides with five weapons against a maximum of two. It speaks volumes that these imbeciles are incapable of even that.

                >I now realize you are citing Glorfindel's account of encountering the wraiths abroad, where he pursued 3 on a bridge and then 2 later, is there any point where it describes him facing all 9?
                One elf can run off the enemy's greatest servants just by being in the area. Fricking hell do you not see the issue with that?

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                >One elf ...
                But he had FIRE anon. Plus Grollo used the power word against him. No one could keep fighting under those conditions! And there was a flood too! Do you expect ghosts to float over water? Don't be ridiculous, just recite the chapter long song when these doubts appear. It works in church all the time! Nta.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                I was with you until the fedora-tipping.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                I'm glad. I added the last part deliberately, to provoke you. I missed the opportunity to compare Jesus' death & color change power up to DBZ earlier when I did it with Gandalf. It would have been a two for one. Feels bad

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                That's nice.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                You're just saying that to be kind. Sorry I didn't tip harder frendos. There is always next time. I'm enjoying your argument btw, but sniping is obligatory, y'know.

  32. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    I'm a Ringwraith and it's true, they definitely overhyped us in the book compared to our actual capabilities. I tried to talk John out of it but he was insistent.

  33. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    This whole thread just makes me want to read Tolkien again.

    And maybe check out The One Ring.

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      It's really great if you like reading some neat bits of worldbuilding in between neverending poems and songs interspersed with various gary stu characters and/or races of characters getting fellated

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        >gary stu
        >tolkien
        >disliking poems and songs
        lol
        the average /tg/ guy is so sad now

  34. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    The Nazgul are more of a threat to the hobbits, which is how they are portrayed.
    Gandalf loses one battle and dies in another battle in the book, so its hardly shown that his enemies are weak.

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      >the mightiest servants of sauron are only a threat to the physically and mentally weakest race in the setting
      That's like saying you're an incredible kickboxer because you could beat up a three year old.

  35. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    The frick is with all this random Tolkien hate?

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      People finally realized that GRRM is the better writer

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        homosexual

        A post like this only makes sense if you treat fiction like sportsball. Are you a 40kid by any chance?

        homosexual

        People blame him for a number of tropes.

        this

        Realization that he's overrated in many areas. He was a linguist, not a real writer, and his work reflects this.

        this

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      People blame him for a number of tropes.

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      Realization that he's overrated in many areas. He was a linguist, not a real writer, and his work reflects this.

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        Tolkien is the most amazing fantasy writer we've ever seen.

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      AoS piggies are seething towards any other fantasy setting

  36. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    After reading this thread it really hit me how incredibly moronic the whole plot of LotRs really are, even more than it appears at first glance.

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      Wait until you read the meta, where a dude sails off the coast of Ireland and loses his way then ends up in an elven pocket dimension-island where they tell him all the events of LOTR and such took place in Europe many years ago, and he becomes their friend, calls himself Aelfwine (elf-friend), and brings the story back to England. That is actual canon.

      The "devil" torched entire nations, mercilessly slaughtered all of the greatest warriors elvenkind had to offer, sowed distrust between races that could never be fully healed, stole the Silmarilsz killed the Trees that gave light to the entire world, covered the sky with smoke and blocked out the Sun in an entire chunk of the planet, scarred the Moon and irreversibly corrupted the entire world forever. Any attempts to oppose him led to minimal or phyrric victories at best. Every kingdom who fought him fell, sooner or later.
      You have never read the Silmarillion.

      The "devil" lost multiple times, won once because the enemy let their guard down completely, won two other times because the enemy had a guy betray them, managed to kill two magic trees only with the help of a spider who proceeded to make him cry and scream for mercy, stole some magic israeliteels that had no real importance beyond plot relevance, put smoke around Angband from a volcano, tried to hurt the moon and got b***hslapped by a lesser Maiar for it, and made men act evil so they could be slaughtered en masse by elves later on. Every time he was opposed he was completely annihilated, losing all of his forces or having to hide, and it took him centuries as a magical demigod to even begin to weaken mortal elves, who even then could've destroyed him had one of them not turned rogue.

      YOU have never read the Silmarillion. The whole thing is a story of how Melkor is everyone's whipping boy.

  37. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    i really thought this thread would be people posting images of famous fantasy authors and greentexting their satirical game sessions

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      That would require effort and imagination.

  38. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    Play MESBG

  39. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    Yeah LOtR has some unfortunate infodumps. Ones so bad people would consider any modern book doing the same trash

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      >Yeah LOtR has some unfortunate infodumps
      >Some
      Cut infodumps and cut repetition in explanation Tolkien never wrote lines in tune of "And then X told the rest what he learned from Y", but instead repeats the whole dialogue as it was already presented a chapter earlier and LotR is one whole book shorter. That's how bad this is.
      >B-but muh worldbuilding!
      But also terrible writing style, while going anal about totally useless shit that doesn't even affect the moment in the slightest.

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        >But also terrible writing style, while going anal about totally useless shit that doesn't even affect the moment in the slightest.
        It wouldn’t be so bad if he could restrain his autism to indexes.

        • 2 years ago
          Anonymous

          >if he could restrain his autism to indexes.
          Instead, he wrote an entire book of indexes

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >wrote
            It was more a collection of notes that his son edited and expanded upon.

  40. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    Holy shit!

    This is some glorious bait, and we all fell for it.
    Bravo you twats, now go read since none of you all did so at any point.

  41. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    You think this is a joke?
    This is just pic related in action, right down to players being reduced to audience listening to their GM. The only difference is that everything is also covered in mud and shit

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      > image
      I want to see a party of ultra-exploitative munchkins try to break this game.

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        >mechanics
        >in Jesienna
        lol
        lmao
        The whole point is that mechanics are ignored and you just sit, listening to 10-15 minutes of monologue by your GM

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