>Batman has the best villains >nobody has the balls to not use Joker because none of them have even half the normie appeal and recognition he does
Maybe Harley Quinn now she's stopped piggybacking on Joker's fame
so what does joker want more. to KILL batman or to make him break his code and have that "one bad day" he keeps philosophizing over?
Batman villains are great because most of them feel kind of real and grounded
The worst villains in Batman are the ones with super powers. Poison Ivy and Clayface suck dick.
I kinda like Killer Croc turning into a actual gigantic monster croc in the Arkham games. way cooler than just being a ugly leper with sharp teeth.
Joker is the quintessential Batman villain, he just makes everything more fun.
And when you actually think about it, the main villains in City and Knight are not Joker.
Joker: smart but nuts, no powers or abilities
Two face:smart but nuts, no powers or abilities
Penguin: smart but nuts, no powers or abilities
Riddler: smart but nuts, no powers or abilities
Bane: smart but nuts, no powers or abilities
The Al Ghouls: smart but nuts, no powers or abilities
>Penguin: smart but nuts,
He's not crazy, he's basically a mobster. >Bane: smart but nuts, no powers or abilities
Also not really crazy and has super strength.
I would take human villains with interesting gimmicks any day instead of the superpower shlock that is the rest of capeshit.
>Bane: smart but nuts, no powers or abilities
The Al Ghouls: smart but nuts, no powers or abilities
Bane is enhanced with venom giving him super strength, Ra's al Ghul has the lazarus pit making him immortal.
Batman villains don't need excessive power creep to creative. Most of them not having supernatural abilities keeps them grounded, believable and more nuanced.
This is exactly why I hate the idea that Batman shares the same universe with Superman and other supernatural characters in the comics.
Good thing they didnt really have many references to that in the Arkham games.
>keeps them grounded, believable and more nuanced
Like the time Joker became Iran's Ambassador the UN so Ayatollah Khomeini could use him to kill all the delegates
You mean you don't relate to chasing a clown in a helicopter after he tried to gas the UN and blown up your prodigy acrobat son who thought his mother could have been the serial killer martial artist woman who's also one of your sworn enemies?
Ryu: strong, good at martial arts and likes fighting
Ken: strong, good at martial arts and likes fighting
Blanka: strong, good at martial arts and likes fighting
Guile: strong, good at martial arts and likes fighting
E. Honda: strong, good at martial arts and likes fighting
Zangief: strong, good at martial arts and likes fighting
Chun-Li: strong, good at martial arts and likes fighting
Dhalsim: strong, good at martial arts and likes fighting
Sagat: strong, good at martial arts and likes fighting
Balrog: strong, good at martial arts and likes fighting
Vega: strong, good at martial arts and likes fighting
M. Bison: strong, good at martial arts and likes fighting
Cammy: strong, good at martial arts and likes fighting
Deejay: strong, good at martial arts and likes fighting
Fei Long: strong, good at martial arts and likes fighting
Thunder Hawk: strong, good at martial arts and likes fighting
Akuma: strong, good at martial arts and likes fighting
Batman villains are great because most of them feel kind of real and grounded
The worst villains in Batman are the ones with super powers. Poison Ivy and Clayface suck dick.
Ivy can't "control plants" moron, she's a chemist who uses her knowledge to make her plants stronger. You just pretend you're a fan so you can talk shit.
Dude I don't know what to tell you. Ivy can only do plantbender shit in the Tim Burton movie, the official version of her powers is that it's all chemistry based and just knows how to create evil monster plants.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Anon we all know you're wrong. None of us have to go look it up on the comics wiki.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Whatever anon. She started out as a chemist and then some continuities make her a magical plant throwing demigod because that's what people assume her as already, even though that just makes her a discount Swamp Thing.
Clayface has the potential to be interesting if a good writer uses him in a sort of cat and mouse story where he uses shapeshifting to trick Batman. Unfortunately, a majority of his appearances are just le hulking monster who smashes things.
the mallet-hand thing he always does is cool. the wierd "absorb them into my body and try to suffocate them" thing he pulls everytime someone gets stuck punching/kicking him is a classic too.
The thing nobody seems to understand is that a villain has to be charismatic for him to work as a main antagonist. Both in movies or games.
So no, Clayface cant be a main villain, only a secondary.
That's also partially why people thought Riddler from The Batman wasnt as interesting. Meanwhile everyone loves the movies with Joker. Even when Jim Carrey played Riddler it was kino, because he had charisma and was acting crazy.
Clayface was originally some movie actor. Why wouldn't he be charismatic? Arkham City proved that his ability to meld into other personas could make him into an interesting villain.
Has to be not only charismatic but have an interesting persona or a gimmick.
Maybe it could be done but it would be hard to create an entire movie or a game around him. Would have to be relatively small scale because all he can realistically do is just impersonate people.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Joker's gimmick is being insane and making poison gas yet they let him get up to all sorts of shit. A guy who can perfectly imitate anyone he wants while also turning into a giant mud monster can do just as much if people cared to try.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>a villain has to be charismatic for him to work as a main antagonist. >So no, Clayface cant be a main villain
just give him a cool "main" human form that he uses for most of the game/movie. he only changes into monster form for fight scenes.
could be extra cool if they don't make it obvious that he is clayface until he surprises batman with his powers in the first fight scene.
I dont think Clayface has ever had any grand goals or the intelligence for them, as opposed to Joker.
>a villain has to be charismatic for him to work as a main antagonist. >So no, Clayface cant be a main villain
just give him a cool "main" human form that he uses for most of the game/movie. he only changes into monster form for fight scenes.
could be extra cool if they don't make it obvious that he is clayface until he surprises batman with his powers in the first fight scene.
>could be extra cool if they don't make it obvious that he is clayface until he surprises batman with his powers in the first fight scene
That's how they handled it in Arkham City
charismatic villians are only needed for Generic 'Action' Villains where they have some huge elaborate (and easy to translate into a movie/game) plot
Clayface can work extremely well theoretically in shit like mystery storylines where you don't even know who the villain is until the big reveal,
Riddler works for more sherlock holmes style storylines where the point is to constantly misdirect the reader/watcher.
however those type of storylines don't do well with the masses and its pretty much guaranteed that most people give an action movie/game a try which is why like 90 percent of batman shit are action games and movies and batman doesn't have many villains which work well in action movies
Let's share good none Joker stories, then:
Not to start with the obvious, but Heart of Ice and Two-face part 1 & 2 from the BTAS were really very good.
Clayface in Feat of Clay part 2 was not as good, but the animation was probably the best in the series.
>Superman kills Joker after he spends years killing hundreds upon hundreds of civilians, finally topping it off by nuking a city and making Clark murder his wife and son by tricking him with gas >this is somehow portrayed as a villainous action >Batman later allying with the other person who help set up the nuke to kill Superman is a heroic action
I hate Batwank so much
he didn't stop because every other moronic hero in this universe decided that killing the dude who nuked the city was a reprehensible action and started trying to stop him himself
Injustice Superman was just as right as AvX Cyclops
>this is somehow portrayed as a villainous action
No it was the whole "I'm going to rule the world" thing afterwards that was the problem. He still could've come back from ventilating Joker, if any of his friends had actually been his friends and helped him with his grief. >Batman and Harley
That's Harleywank. It's even worse in the prequel comic.
I can never get into Justice League shit. Superman sucks, and it isn't fun to be a Batman fan and seeing him go up against (and win) against moronicly powerful beings just because the writers need something that Superman can fight too. He's the definition of too powerful to be cool, and the writers keep writing in new sources of fricking Kryptonite just to cope with the fact that their lead hero sucks too much dick.
I would prefer multiple colors to just everyone having regular Kryptonite. It's just so hard to spice up milquetoast. I'm just not the right audience for Superman, I can't wrap my head around why anyone would like him.
People used to like Supes because he was a goofy lighthearted character, now fanboys like him because they're brainwashed into thinking he's literally the greatest thing in all of humanity.
>People used to like Supes because
Dude's 85 years old my man you're going to have to specify when the Superman you're talking about existed
1 year ago
Anonymous
Whichever one I'm talking about it's certainly not the current one, kek. No one likes Superman genuinely anymore, they're all defensive hyperfans who get mad if you dislike him and when asked what they like about the character will go on some tangent on how he is an inspiration for humanity and you should just accept that he is, chud.
1 year ago
Anonymous
I like Superman because he's so powerful, his stories tend to be about villains and obstacles he can't just punch away, which is far more interesting than big superpower fight scene #374637
Are you moronic? Of all the things to complain about with the Arkham games. They're great partly because of how well they utilize the entire rogue gallery to craft the world and levels. Even some of the smaller and sillier ones have their cool and memorable moments to shine. Joker is just typically the agent of chaos that gets them all together.
They do a good job of letting everybody have some shine in Arkham Asylum (despite it still being Joker's show) and City.
They completely dropped the ball in Origins though by having Joker hi-jack the plot and only really letting Bane have any of the remaining spotlight as an apology for fricking him up in Asylum.
I never played Knight.
Knight does the same thing as Origins but even worse, Scarecrow feels like a secondary or tertiary antagonist and other villains set up in City like Hush and Azrael get wasted in side missions.
Origins almost did it right with Black Mask and one of the best depictions of Bane, but of course Joker had to be shoehorned in because we can't have a story without him.
Don't get me started on tulpa Joker and his magic blood in Knight.
Im not super into movies and stuff so i dont know if people agree but a friend of mine says the worst thing to happen to batman movies was the Dark Knight cause it set people's expectations on what a batman villain is "supposed to be" and that trying to do another batman movie with a joker more akin to Jack Nicholson's would be almost impossible to pull off these days.
Whichever one I'm talking about it's certainly not the current one, kek. No one likes Superman genuinely anymore, they're all defensive hyperfans who get mad if you dislike him and when asked what they like about the character will go on some tangent on how he is an inspiration for humanity and you should just accept that he is, chud.
Hes just an institution for super heroes. Its just like McDonalds in that its probably the worst fast food but people order it anyway cause its always the same and always there.
>Hes just an institution for super heroes.
I know but that's why to non-fans it's hard to take people seriously when they demand you love a creatively bankrupt character just because "HE WAS THE OG, MAAAAN".
>Batman has the best villains
>nobody has the balls to not use Joker because none of them have even half the normie appeal and recognition he does
Maybe Harley Quinn now she's stopped piggybacking on Joker's fame
What's gonna happen when Batman and Joker are old men with broken discs in thier backs?
Batman Beyond happens
What about the Joker?
same deal
Joker's looking pretty good for an old man. They should have their graves next to each other.
Joker's dead in Beyond, that's some mind control chip possessing a middle aged Tim Drake
>Bats outlives Joker
Aw shit. How'd J die, old age or did he get got finally? I'm never gonna watch the show
He gets killed by Tim Drake who he attempted to brainwash into Joker Jr
That's Tim Drake being taken over by a Joker microchip
Best Batman movie without a doubt
Frick Dark Knight Frick The Batman
mask of the phantasm
so what does joker want more. to KILL batman or to make him break his code and have that "one bad day" he keeps philosophizing over?
I kinda like Killer Croc turning into a actual gigantic monster croc in the Arkham games. way cooler than just being a ugly leper with sharp teeth.
Depends on the writer but generally it's the latter
I could understand it early on, when it meant they could easily snag Mark Hamill.
Wasn't the joker villain actually clayface once?
>Wasn't the joker villain actually clayface once?
yes, im pretty sure he was the final boss l, and just a fricking reskin of the first boss Grundy
For most of City, Joker is Joker, but Clayface disguises as Joker to trick Batman into thinking that Joker isn't dying of Venom poisoning.
he's not a reskin, just one similar move iirc plus a 2nd phase with an entirely unique sword moveset for batman
The Arkham series went as far as using fricking Firefly, they're the last people I would blame for focusing too much on Joker.
Joker is the quintessential Batman villain, he just makes everything more fun.
And when you actually think about it, the main villains in City and Knight are not Joker.
How is the main villain in City not Joker
Do I have to remind you who masterminded the whole thing? Did you play the game?
Hugo Strange sets it all up and yet somehow it's still Joker who comes out on top and takes the final spotlight
Ra's Al Gul was in the game for about 10 minutes. He had less presence than Zsasz.
And yet he was the mastermind. Even if you ignore that, Strange was the second main villain.
Joker: smart but nuts, no powers or abilities
Two face:smart but nuts, no powers or abilities
Penguin: smart but nuts, no powers or abilities
Riddler: smart but nuts, no powers or abilities
Bane: smart but nuts, no powers or abilities
The Al Ghouls: smart but nuts, no powers or abilities
Yeah really great creative villains
>Bane: smart but nuts, no powers or abilities
He has super strength.
>Penguin: smart but nuts,
He's not crazy, he's basically a mobster.
>Bane: smart but nuts, no powers or abilities
Also not really crazy and has super strength.
I would take human villains with interesting gimmicks any day instead of the superpower shlock that is the rest of capeshit.
>not crazy
>wants to fight the bat man
Working out a bunch in a hole in the ground isn't a super power
>Working out a bunch in a hole in the ground
What are you talking about? Are you mixing up the dogshit Nolan lore with the actual comic one?
Imagine reading a batman comic
I dont read comics, but I know the background of the most well known characters. Everyone does.
>Bane: smart but nuts, no powers or abilities
The Al Ghouls: smart but nuts, no powers or abilities
Bane is enhanced with venom giving him super strength, Ra's al Ghul has the lazarus pit making him immortal.
Batman villains don't need excessive power creep to creative. Most of them not having supernatural abilities keeps them grounded, believable and more nuanced.
This is exactly why I hate the idea that Batman shares the same universe with Superman and other supernatural characters in the comics.
Good thing they didnt really have many references to that in the Arkham games.
>keeps them grounded, believable and more nuanced
Like the time Joker became Iran's Ambassador the UN so Ayatollah Khomeini could use him to kill all the delegates
You mean you don't relate to chasing a clown in a helicopter after he tried to gas the UN and blown up your prodigy acrobat son who thought his mother could have been the serial killer martial artist woman who's also one of your sworn enemies?
Ryu: strong, good at martial arts and likes fighting
Ken: strong, good at martial arts and likes fighting
Blanka: strong, good at martial arts and likes fighting
Guile: strong, good at martial arts and likes fighting
E. Honda: strong, good at martial arts and likes fighting
Zangief: strong, good at martial arts and likes fighting
Chun-Li: strong, good at martial arts and likes fighting
Dhalsim: strong, good at martial arts and likes fighting
Sagat: strong, good at martial arts and likes fighting
Balrog: strong, good at martial arts and likes fighting
Vega: strong, good at martial arts and likes fighting
M. Bison: strong, good at martial arts and likes fighting
Cammy: strong, good at martial arts and likes fighting
Deejay: strong, good at martial arts and likes fighting
Fei Long: strong, good at martial arts and likes fighting
Thunder Hawk: strong, good at martial arts and likes fighting
Akuma: strong, good at martial arts and likes fighting
WOOOOOOAH
Half of them can throw energy projectiles, emit electricity, stretch their limbs, breathe fire...
Way to miss the point, moron-kun.
Batman villains are great because most of them feel kind of real and grounded
The worst villains in Batman are the ones with super powers. Poison Ivy and Clayface suck dick.
>Ivy
>superpowers
Tell me you don't actually read the comics without telling me.
Wow anon I didn't know the power to control plants and turn them into man eating monster flowers was so normal and common
>He hasn't unlocked his plant-growing powers yet
Not gonna make it.
Ivy can't "control plants" moron, she's a chemist who uses her knowledge to make her plants stronger. You just pretend you're a fan so you can talk shit.
This is a weird bit anon.
Dude I don't know what to tell you. Ivy can only do plantbender shit in the Tim Burton movie, the official version of her powers is that it's all chemistry based and just knows how to create evil monster plants.
Anon we all know you're wrong. None of us have to go look it up on the comics wiki.
Whatever anon. She started out as a chemist and then some continuities make her a magical plant throwing demigod because that's what people assume her as already, even though that just makes her a discount Swamp Thing.
Clayface has the potential to be interesting if a good writer uses him in a sort of cat and mouse story where he uses shapeshifting to trick Batman. Unfortunately, a majority of his appearances are just le hulking monster who smashes things.
the mallet-hand thing he always does is cool. the wierd "absorb them into my body and try to suffocate them" thing he pulls everytime someone gets stuck punching/kicking him is a classic too.
I always wondered though WTF does Clayface eat?
The thing nobody seems to understand is that a villain has to be charismatic for him to work as a main antagonist. Both in movies or games.
So no, Clayface cant be a main villain, only a secondary.
That's also partially why people thought Riddler from The Batman wasnt as interesting. Meanwhile everyone loves the movies with Joker. Even when Jim Carrey played Riddler it was kino, because he had charisma and was acting crazy.
Clayface was originally some movie actor. Why wouldn't he be charismatic? Arkham City proved that his ability to meld into other personas could make him into an interesting villain.
Has to be not only charismatic but have an interesting persona or a gimmick.
Maybe it could be done but it would be hard to create an entire movie or a game around him. Would have to be relatively small scale because all he can realistically do is just impersonate people.
Joker's gimmick is being insane and making poison gas yet they let him get up to all sorts of shit. A guy who can perfectly imitate anyone he wants while also turning into a giant mud monster can do just as much if people cared to try.
I dont think Clayface has ever had any grand goals or the intelligence for them, as opposed to Joker.
And there we have it, charismatic clayface
>a villain has to be charismatic for him to work as a main antagonist.
>So no, Clayface cant be a main villain
just give him a cool "main" human form that he uses for most of the game/movie. he only changes into monster form for fight scenes.
could be extra cool if they don't make it obvious that he is clayface until he surprises batman with his powers in the first fight scene.
>could be extra cool if they don't make it obvious that he is clayface until he surprises batman with his powers in the first fight scene
That's how they handled it in Arkham City
charismatic villians are only needed for Generic 'Action' Villains where they have some huge elaborate (and easy to translate into a movie/game) plot
Clayface can work extremely well theoretically in shit like mystery storylines where you don't even know who the villain is until the big reveal,
Riddler works for more sherlock holmes style storylines where the point is to constantly misdirect the reader/watcher.
however those type of storylines don't do well with the masses and its pretty much guaranteed that most people give an action movie/game a try which is why like 90 percent of batman shit are action games and movies and batman doesn't have many villains which work well in action movies
Bane is a big guy
for you
>Bane: smart but nuts, no powers or abilities
>The Al Ghouls: smart but nuts, no powers or abilities
>creativity is when characters have nonsense powers
>Batman has the best villains in all of media
it really doesnt
>You'll never get to frick Harley because your not an insane clown
Feels bad lads
>tara strong harley
the sole reason why the hideous dyed twintails trend begun in the first place. bring back glorious, blonde, skin-tight suit harley!
you can rape her if you're batman
Batman has the Joker and the airplane man and that's about it.
just want to share that arkham riddler is the best batman villain
intelligent, nihilistic, and with a wicked sense of humor
>What if we made a Redditor a villain?
>The one moron in this thread that thinks anyone reads comics in the modern day
Fanfiction is less embarrassing
Batman is the only comic people still read
Some Batman series are so popular they even spawn their own mini-verse
>Female side kick using a bow and arrow
I NEVER SEEN THAT BEFORE!
Neither Professor Zoom nor Black Manta are Batman villains, albeitthoughever.
Needed Lord Death Man.
why can't they just give me a game where I play as the joker?
that's just free roam GTA
Let's share good none Joker stories, then:
Not to start with the obvious, but Heart of Ice and Two-face part 1 & 2 from the BTAS were really very good.
Clayface in Feat of Clay part 2 was not as good, but the animation was probably the best in the series.
Ironically Joker's Asylum. It's an anthology of short-stories about various Batman villains. Joker really just acts as a sort of crypt-keeper.
Eye of the beholder is still the best two face origin. Batman 66 did the best scarecrow and lord death man.
>currently doing the joker carnival dlc map
I am getting filtered hard and it fricking sucks
hey that's the last medal i need for batman as well
Beat villains? You mean "gosh... MAD people and CHEMICAL stuff are DANGEROUS?!".
>Superman kills Joker after he spends years killing hundreds upon hundreds of civilians, finally topping it off by nuking a city and making Clark murder his wife and son by tricking him with gas
>this is somehow portrayed as a villainous action
>Batman later allying with the other person who help set up the nuke to kill Superman is a heroic action
I hate Batwank so much
Injustice is badly written fanfiction, even more so than the rest of modern DC.
If he had stopped there then everything would have been fine, the problem is that he didn't stop and just got worse.
he didn't stop because every other moronic hero in this universe decided that killing the dude who nuked the city was a reprehensible action and started trying to stop him himself
Injustice Superman was just as right as AvX Cyclops
>>this is somehow portrayed as a villainous action
killing a person in custody usually is
and like
says, he didn't stop there
>this is somehow portrayed as a villainous action
No it was the whole "I'm going to rule the world" thing afterwards that was the problem. He still could've come back from ventilating Joker, if any of his friends had actually been his friends and helped him with his grief.
>Batman and Harley
That's Harleywank. It's even worse in the prequel comic.
I can never get into Justice League shit. Superman sucks, and it isn't fun to be a Batman fan and seeing him go up against (and win) against moronicly powerful beings just because the writers need something that Superman can fight too. He's the definition of too powerful to be cool, and the writers keep writing in new sources of fricking Kryptonite just to cope with the fact that their lead hero sucks too much dick.
>the writers keep writing in new sources of fricking Kryptonite
This ain't the Silver Age anymore anon
I would prefer multiple colors to just everyone having regular Kryptonite. It's just so hard to spice up milquetoast. I'm just not the right audience for Superman, I can't wrap my head around why anyone would like him.
People used to like Supes because he was a goofy lighthearted character, now fanboys like him because they're brainwashed into thinking he's literally the greatest thing in all of humanity.
>People used to like Supes because
Dude's 85 years old my man you're going to have to specify when the Superman you're talking about existed
Whichever one I'm talking about it's certainly not the current one, kek. No one likes Superman genuinely anymore, they're all defensive hyperfans who get mad if you dislike him and when asked what they like about the character will go on some tangent on how he is an inspiration for humanity and you should just accept that he is, chud.
I like Superman because he's so powerful, his stories tend to be about villains and obstacles he can't just punch away, which is far more interesting than big superpower fight scene #374637
Are you moronic? Of all the things to complain about with the Arkham games. They're great partly because of how well they utilize the entire rogue gallery to craft the world and levels. Even some of the smaller and sillier ones have their cool and memorable moments to shine. Joker is just typically the agent of chaos that gets them all together.
>no condiment king reference, not even in a hamburger stand or something
They did my boy dirty
He couldn't cut the mustard
They do a good job of letting everybody have some shine in Arkham Asylum (despite it still being Joker's show) and City.
They completely dropped the ball in Origins though by having Joker hi-jack the plot and only really letting Bane have any of the remaining spotlight as an apology for fricking him up in Asylum.
I never played Knight.
Knight does the same thing as Origins but even worse, Scarecrow feels like a secondary or tertiary antagonist and other villains set up in City like Hush and Azrael get wasted in side missions.
Origins almost did it right with Black Mask and one of the best depictions of Bane, but of course Joker had to be shoehorned in because we can't have a story without him.
Don't get me started on tulpa Joker and his magic blood in Knight.
Im not super into movies and stuff so i dont know if people agree but a friend of mine says the worst thing to happen to batman movies was the Dark Knight cause it set people's expectations on what a batman villain is "supposed to be" and that trying to do another batman movie with a joker more akin to Jack Nicholson's would be almost impossible to pull off these days.
Hes just an institution for super heroes. Its just like McDonalds in that its probably the worst fast food but people order it anyway cause its always the same and always there.
That's a fair take Nolan's movies did make people expect a darker tone and more realism from Batman stuff.
>Hes just an institution for super heroes.
I know but that's why to non-fans it's hard to take people seriously when they demand you love a creatively bankrupt character just because "HE WAS THE OG, MAAAAN".
>best villain never gets portrayed in modern batman media
simon says go frick yourself
>Batman has the best villains in all of media
Batman is overrated.
If Suicide Squad leaks are true then their obsession over Joker becomes even more ridiculous
Joker is pregnant in the latest comic btw