Beyond "just hire better writers," what can Sonic do to improve its writing?

Beyond "just hire better writers," what can Sonic do to improve its writing? It's been a problem for over a decade now, across all branches of the franchise.

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  1. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Oh boy, here we go again. You won't like what I have to say, but:

    We need a reboot but autistic gays are too autistic to do that. Sonic also needs a visual redesign because the uni-eye does not work on a 3D model and I'm sick of them gluing his mouth to the side. Use the movie design, it's just better, and you can cry all you want if you disagree, I am correct.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      >It needs a reboot
      Why? Who cares about lore aside from the diehards?

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Dear Seega.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      >reboot
      They tried that with '06 and Boom, it didn't work.
      Sonic doesn't need a reboot, he just needs good games.
      Look at Sonic Mania. It was the most critically acclaimed Sonic game since the Adventure games, and then Forces came out a few months later and IMMEDIATELY slowed people's newfound enthusiasm for the franchise to a screeching halt.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        Sonic doesn't need a reboot because most of his best games are pretty contemporary anyhow, with dips into sci-fi. Even storybook games had okay story, just make the gameplay good.

  2. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    people liked SA2 because it had an anime story. But now companies dont want to have an anime story to appeal to the "broader audience"

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Didn't you get all that shonenshit in Frontiers?
      Why are Adventure and Dark Age gays so greedy and just like classic purists?
      Except the difference is Classic Purists actually gave a shit about gameplay and had critically acclaimed games to back them up.
      It's why Classic fans liked Colors and Generations. Great gameplay is what matters.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        Frontiers is just Colors with bad jokes swapped for member berries.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Name one example anime stories unanimously do better than "broader audience" stories?

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        The sonic movies. Every time they pull anime fight scene tropes, its great. Every time they cater to DEI, funny animal, or pop culture references they degrade themselves

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        Avatar the last Airbender. Its japanese storytelling inpsirations and anime tropes that are on display in the OG made it stick as a fantastic show everyone remembers. Its pandering to women and minorities to broaden its audience in Korra, and its pandering to movie going adult audiences in the live action movies keep killing the franchise little by little.

  3. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    they need to erase everything after heroes

    SA1 & SA2 are a great soft reboot and heroes introduced a cloned shadow era that could've been great

    Uterly destroy anything that touches traveling back in time (yes i know CD's and SA2 did this, but story wise it's a clusterfrick)

    make cartoon characters inside a serious story not cartoon characters that act serious

    make a proper build up toward a serious tone
    SA2 start cool and end up serious, do that everytime (Sonic 1 Did this, SA1 did this)

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      SA2 didnt travel back in time, just added teleporting in the form of chaos control. Its 06 that added the time travel aspect to the emeralds.

  4. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    i forgot to talk about proper colors gradient to tell your story, Sonic frontiers was pure grey everytime and you didn't feel the movement of the storyline

  5. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    >writing is bad in sonic games
    >writing
    >not the entire premise of the gameplay
    Sonic is bad because the whole premise is bad. Going too fast is punishing, going too slow is punishing and walking around is boring. It's just not a good gameplay premise at all.
    The only thing it has left is the mascot: a naked blue "hedgehog" and its media.

    The story doesn't even matter. It's just boring "technology = bad, nature = good", always has been since Sonic 1.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      >Going fast is inherently bad
      t. Man who has never played a good, fast paced game.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        Name a few?

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          Vanquish

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          Fzero series
          Pizza Tower
          you in bed
          Bayonetta on Infinite Climax difficulty

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            >Pizza Tower
            That's a good example! And even the wario land games are good examples of correctly implemented platforming and speed games.

            • 1 week ago
              Anonymous

              >And even the wario land games are good examples of correctly implemented platforming and speed games.
              Black person you don't play games. WL1-3 and VB are slow as shit.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      This is correct. Sonic has only survived because of nostalgia and marketing. The franchise is a wasteland of garbage and anyone lamenting some lost quality to the writing deserves to be laughed at.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      This. Sonic fundamentally doesn't work. Not in 2D, not in 3D, not in famgames, not anywhere. It's heavily flawed on a conceptual level and should have never existed.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        LIterally, genuinely filtered

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      This is correct. Sonic has only survived because of nostalgia and marketing. The franchise is a wasteland of garbage and anyone lamenting some lost quality to the writing deserves to be laughed at.

      This. Sonic fundamentally doesn't work. Not in 2D, not in 3D, not in famgames, not anywhere. It's heavily flawed on a conceptual level and should have never existed.

      have a nice day, Arin

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        Cope. Sonic was never good.

  6. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Stop listening to secondaries online who don't even WANT to like Sonic games.
    Don't do stupid shit like you did with Forces and trash all the unique qualities of the playable characters because you're worried about accidentally making someone "cooler than sonic".
    Stop putting Denuvo in games.
    Become comfortable with a $30-40 dollar price tag for something like Superstars, you're not Nintendo so you can't get away with charging $60 for something like that people that play your vidya have higher standards and KNOW you'll cave and price it more reasonably down the line, and you'll probably move more copies overall.
    There, I "fixed" Sonic.

  7. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Divest from all western endeavors, and hire writers from the homeland. An easy way to increase goodwill quickly would be to make another Sonic anime, but this time untethered from mandates and other constraints.

  8. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    >Try to phrase OP so people won't go for broad criticism and actually talk about the writing itself.
    >It doesn't work. Half the thread is about the brand or canon.
    I guess I, too, am a failed writer.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Honestly writing isn't super high on the list of issues with Sonic games. Like yeah forces was a fricking mess, but that's more of a general issue with the game desperately trying to retcon the phantom ruby while ostensibly still being entirely designed around it.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        Obviously. But I wanted to talk about the writing. Dialogue, story structure, theming, etc. Even if it's not as important as gameplay, it can still have a big impact on enjoyability. And there's literal decades of content to discuss and compare.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          True, but then again it seems like you're thinking that these things are totally separate, when directly as a result of the Game decision to have Forces revolve around and subsequently retcon the phantom ruby, before any actual writing comes up strings up anything they could do Story wise.
          And it's not like having a gameplay first story second type design doesn't help with story writing.
          Sonic Adventure's story was largely a result of the game revolving around multiple unique campaigns for all the playable characters.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            >The game was centered on an illusion creating gemstone that would go away after the story is over.
            >Nothing could be done! The story was forced to be bad!
            That's a really stupid point of view.

            Why would you give a shit about the writing quality in Sonic games? The main bright spot of the series was always its gameplay and art style, it has never been well written (and I don't view that as a flaw, the games focused on their gameplay).

            If people didn't like aspects of the writing, they would feel no attachment to the brand. The quality of the writing, which was always middling, has also nosedived over the years. It's an interesting topic, but I should have known starting a thread on Ganker with anything but
            >X bad
            would lead to someone trying to argue anything but the actual topic.

            • 1 week ago
              Anonymous

              >Nothing could be done! The story was forced to be bad!
              Yes. Making up a story to retcon it afterwards is going to result in making a bad story.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                >The journey doesn't matter, only the destination.
                Actual moron detected.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                Sloganeering isn't going to get around the fact that the premise is bad.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                >Lotus eater is a bad premise.
                Again, you're a fricking moron.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                Don't quote greek mythology at me you midwit moron.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                >This concept is INHERENTLY BAD
                >It worked in the Odyssey
                >REEEEEE
                Imagine accepting you were wrong about something.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                There's a reason I called you a midwit.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                Yeah, because you're a fricking moron who refuses to concede a point.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                I'm not obligated to pretend that the underlying premises of Sonic Forces' story aren't moronic because you very poorly tried to connect it to an excerpt of the Odyssey.
                You complete fricking midwit.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                >It's bad because... It JUST IS OKAY?!?! YOU FRICKING MIDWIT!!!
                Anything to not admit you were wrong, huh?

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                Yes anon, when you do nothing to actually prove that I was wrong I am under no obligation to stop calling you a moron and say "the thing I was and still am correct about I was actually wrong about".
                Going
                >B-buh da awdessy da joormey dose aw impowtant wowrds wight?
                Has nothing to do with the problems in Sonic Forces, nor does it make what you're saying less stupid just because you're vaguely aware of their existence.
                In addition, continuing to impotently seethe that I need to "admit I was wrong" as if that's more important than the actual substance of this conversation makes you look stupid.
                This conversation has literally gone nowhere since
                >It was a dumb idea to make forces revolve around and try to retcon the phantom ruby, first as a game design decision which then impacted the story in a negative fashion.
                There is no need for you to be stupid and upset about 2 hours on a Sonic game that's relatively nontroversial to talk about as having shortcomings.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                >Says absolutely nothing for three paragraphs.
                >Tries to put the onus on others when HE claimed it's impossible to write a good story with this setup.
                >When an example is given, that DOESN'T FRICKING COUNT YOU CHUD because...reasons.

                Absolute braindead moron.
                You've never made a single argument for why "the story is about a gem that creates illusions, and it will be destroyed by the end" is a completely unsalvageable starting point for a story.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                I am under no obligation to rewrite the story of Sonic Forces to prove the fact that it's dumb, nor does writing an entirely disconnected fanfiction have anything to do with it.
                You are a moron.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                >This story could NEVER be good so long as it started with THIS CONCEPT.
                >Why?
                >I'M NOT WRITING FANFICS FOR YOU!!!
                Nobody asked you to, moron.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                I explained why it was moronic.
                You just decided it didn't count.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                >I explained why
                No, you said the ruby being destroyed in the end makes the story pointless, which is moronic.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      No, Gankeriggers are just mentally moronic and cannot separate their autistic religious attachment to shitty merchandise brands the second you critically think about its quality.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        No, it's a Sonic fan thing. The fanbase is full of some of the dumbest motherfrickers I've ever seen.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          Case in point

          because the issues are on a conceptual level dude. There isnt any kind of grammatical problem or superfluous use of cutscenes or shit like that to criticize. The cutscenes existences are fine. The use of dialogue in levels is fine. The actual makeup of the words being used in the dialogue is fine. What isnt fine is shit like characterization and scenario creation which happen way before you start putting actual words on paper and arranging scenes. Just fricking hand everything back to the japanese and let them run shit. All of the characterizations have been way better than in the dub because they actually understand the characters they are writing. So even when the scenario is shit, Sonic still feels like Sonic.

          Dude's too goddamn stupid to conceptualize any criticism or solutions more specific than
          >SHIP IT OFF TO JAPAN

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            Do you actually WANT me to go in depth about the problems with each individual character? Because I could.

            • 1 week ago
              Anonymous

              >"Please talk about writing"
              >Talks about something else instead
              >Asks if people want him to talk about the writing
              I fear for my sanity at this point.
              But sure. Go ahead.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                I fear for your sanity too because it seems we need to define the word writing. Everyone else knows writing to be the creation of a scenario and script to convey a set of characters and plot. Characterization is a major part of that and hence is a major function of what is wrong with the writing. They are tied together inherently. What the hell do YOU mean when you say writing.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                >Do you want me to do this?
                >Yes, go ahead.
                >WELL I'M NOT GONNA.
                I swear to fricking god. You morons will share your opinions when nobody asks but someone can ask you five times and you'll find some inane semantics to argue.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                >I didnt know what writing actually is despite throwing it around as some holy word that we must adhere to in discussion
                >b-but I cant let anyone know that so Ill call him an idiot for asking me to define my holy word instead
                >ha ha I win!

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      because the issues are on a conceptual level dude. There isnt any kind of grammatical problem or superfluous use of cutscenes or shit like that to criticize. The cutscenes existences are fine. The use of dialogue in levels is fine. The actual makeup of the words being used in the dialogue is fine. What isnt fine is shit like characterization and scenario creation which happen way before you start putting actual words on paper and arranging scenes. Just fricking hand everything back to the japanese and let them run shit. All of the characterizations have been way better than in the dub because they actually understand the characters they are writing. So even when the scenario is shit, Sonic still feels like Sonic.

  9. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Why would you give a shit about the writing quality in Sonic games? The main bright spot of the series was always its gameplay and art style, it has never been well written (and I don't view that as a flaw, the games focused on their gameplay).

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      >The main bright spot of the series was always its gameplay and art style
      >gameplay
      gameplay sucks since it punishes you for playing it
      >art style
      other than furries, nobody agrees with this

  10. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Sonic doesn't need writing aside from general level design "plot"

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Fricking this. 2000sgays want to pretend 3K's story is even remotely the same as their games just because it was "more complex" than Sonic 1 and 2. It's still very simplistic and the story is told through transitionary scenes without any dialogue. Sonic Adventure was a huge change in that regard.

      >The game was centered on an illusion creating gemstone that would go away after the story is over.
      >Nothing could be done! The story was forced to be bad!
      That's a really stupid point of view.

      [...]
      If people didn't like aspects of the writing, they would feel no attachment to the brand. The quality of the writing, which was always middling, has also nosedived over the years. It's an interesting topic, but I should have known starting a thread on Ganker with anything but
      >X bad
      would lead to someone trying to argue anything but the actual topic.

      Then why did people get into the Genesis games? The cartoons and comics were other things that many fans didn't engage with at the time.

  11. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    stop trying to make it about the past, every sonic game since 2011 has been nothing but nostalgia pandering without much of an interesting premise

  12. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    >try to be super serious like Sonic Frontiers
    >everyone hates it
    >try to be super silly like Sonic Colors
    >everyone hates it
    At this point just have no story.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      >try to be super silly like Sonic Colors
      >everyone hates it
      Only in hindsight, and only from a few (very) vocal fans. Most people still like Colors. Anons will screech for me saying it, but it's a fact that at the time of its release, Colors' story was mostly viewed as a breath of fresh air after a whole decade of big overblown, and sometimes intrusive, storylines. Some bad jokes aside. It was Lost World's story that almost no one liked because its tone was all over the place and the story was nonsensical.

  13. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    It would be nice if Sonic had a cool story like in the Genesis games. It's not much but a bit of cartoon silliness with a character that keeps their cool most of the time is what endeared people to Sonic in the first place.

  14. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Go for highly polished minimal writing rather than having a high volume of dialogue. Spend money on high quality, expressive character animation (in-game, not pre-rendered) to sell key narrative moments, but use it sparingly. Also more focus on "cinematography". Doesn't have to be anything crazy, just slight "human" touches to scenes, using the camera like a director would. I'm thinking of OoT cutscenes in particular, which were often very simple and short but had cool framing or mise en scene to keep visual interest or to help propel the action.

  15. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Sonic Team needs to make up its fricking mind who to cater to. The games don't have universal appeal and they've released too many stinkers over the year, they can't pretend they're Mario and just release whatever and slap the Sonic name on it.

    Either cater to 2D gays or 3D gays. Either focus on the classic timeline, the modern timeline, or finally fricking merge them like any sane dev would have done ages ago. Either cater to the purists who just want Sonic and Eggman or use the frickhuge ensemble cast and go the Adventure/Advance route.

    tl;dr pick a subset of fans, cater to them and they might cultivate a decent fanbase.

  16. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    the solution to improve writing can only be to hire better writers

  17. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Sonic’s problem is that the higher ups at Sega just view him as a money printer. The see what gets audiences excited, but they don’t understand the why. This is how we wind up with Superstars, a soulless homunculus of a game that released to a resounding “it’s not Sonic 4 at least”, or Frontiers, whose story tries to up the stakes but completely fails to be a narrative rollercoaster like SA2.

  18. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Murder of Sonic the Hedgehog had pretty enjoyable writing while staying tastefully whimsical, so I'm pretty sure hiring better writers really is all you fricking need to do.

  19. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Reboot the series.
    It's now about a fast talking fast running hedgehog named Sonic and his pal Tails as they travel around the land trying to stop Dr Robotnik from capturing all the Chaos Emeralds.
    Knuckles can appear as a sort of guardian of the Chaos Emeralds that acts as both an antagonist to Sonic because Sonic is fricking with the Chaos Emeralds, and an ally to Sonic because he knows he can't stop Eggman alone without Sonics help.

  20. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Make 2D games, Mania was good, Mania 2 will also probably be good when it comes out

    If you wanna make a 3D sonic, it needs to include Chao Garden.

  21. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    I think the secret to what made the Adventure games work was that it had a balance between serious plot points and lighthearted bits but hammed it up massively while remaining sincere
    It's like how people love Metal Gear Rising - the games play into how ludicrous everything is without any sort of side-eye wink wink nudge nudge meta humour
    Sonic is apparently friends with the president of the united states in SA2 and Shadow and this is never elaborated on, also there's a space rocket in a pyramid because why wouldn't there be
    Also while I think Ian Flynn's writing can work, he needs to tone it down with the "holy crap lois this is like the time I was in the mystic ruins" stuff

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      MGR was definitely giving a wink and a nudge with it's over the top moments. I'd compare it more to mainline MGS where they're much more Poe faced about their ridiculous moments, and the fact they're still grounded enough to be taken seriously.

  22. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    I just want Chaotix Vector back. Best design in the series and the only thing that's ever done him justice is that one God-Tier SRB2 mod.
    also all the sonic comics are terrible and they need to go away forever, the vibe is all wrong in those

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      >Chaotix Vector
      Sorry anon, Iizuka thinks the Chaotix are modern characters because they were "reimagined" for Heroes, so Classic Vector's never coming back.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        I will continue to cope with SRB2, then.

  23. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    don't have any story

  24. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    I know it's about the story from the games, but at this point Sega should just abandon making "traditional" Sonic games and focus on other media. like manga, anime and experimental things like the Murder of Sonic the Hedgehog.
    The first problem with the writing is how currently Sega doesn't know what they want with the character now, if he's gonna be a lazy hedgehog now with emotional problems like Sonic Prime series (which is somehow canon), or if they want to go back to that quiet Sonic from the dark age who expressed his emotions mostly by spending time with his friends, the thing Sonic valued the most back in the days.
    And then there's the gameplay, which setting aside something really important which is the time to develop a game and Sonic games almost never have enough of it, we still have the question of what the gameplay from a Sonic game should be not just in a single game but a formula for a lot of games going on. Imo the Frontier's fights are what Sonic games should do, but the rest of the game is not really good in pacing for a Sonic game out of all things.

  25. 1 week ago
    Boco

    Pick a tone and stick with it, for frick's sake.

  26. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Just go back to ripping off shonen anime. It was peak doing DBZ shit with SA1/2, time to just copy Naruto, Demon Slayer, or whatever hotness the kids are into these days. So long as it has a chunie as frick guy who Shadow can stand in for you're set.

    • 1 week ago
      Boco

      Shone Sonic is stupid as frick.

      If they need to stay with one tone just make it goofy and humorous, like Colors.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        frick off colors was literally the reason we are in the spot we are now. Shit was consistently good up till that point.

        • 1 week ago
          Boco

          Yes, it was shit before Colors.

          Sonic was never meant to be serious to begin with.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            doesnt matter if it wasnt meant to be, because it was. Its what it became. And its what made it great. We literally have been coasting off of the glory days of back when sonic was good (S3&K-06). And Even after that we had hope during 06-Unleashed that things would get better. The moment the games became a cartoon they shat the bed and everything has sucked since.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        You're a trip gay so I don't even need to make an effort to derride your shit opnion. It's already on peak display.

  27. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Sonic should have stayed 2D

  28. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Pick a lane. Either make classic era simplified narrative story telling with world building for the mystery side of Sonic, or go full on action adventure shonen jump shit with characters growing stronger over time.

    I don't really care about. I really don't like being a Sonicgay anymore. But the least SEGA can do is actually know what they want from Sonic and stop backpedeling.

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