Can a Thief be Lawful Good?

Well /tg/,
Can a Thief be Lawful Good?

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  1. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Is the society they live in completely centered around thievery and extortion?
    Then yes.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Laws a prohibitive, so this wouldn't be lawful.

      Acolytes of Great Church who gather dangerous artefacts and relics from tombs, so they won't get in wrong hands.

      This is neutral. Order through Chaos is neutral rather than Lawful.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >This is neutral. Order through Chaos is neutral rather than Lawful
        Thievery is an act of extraction someone's possessions without his notice. Extracting something from cold hands of the dead or machinery under the jurisdiction of Church is Lawful.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          In which case, it's no longer stealing and he's no longer a thief.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      If you're gonna be so stupid as to subscribe to the D&D alignment chart in the first place, the least you could do is try to understand it.
      "Law" does not refer to the laws of mortal societies. It refers to abstract Order in the sense of being ordered, organized along consistent principles and rationality.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      That makes an evil society. Lawful evil is still evil.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Can a Thief be Lawful Good?
      Yes, insofar that a "Thief" is archetype of character (class, career, whatever), not necessarily a serial kleptomaniac with poor self-control.

      fpwp moron

      I can't believe the thread has ignored this post which is the most obvious, classic BURGLAR in all of western fiction. How does he operate?
      >Has a contract for his services
      >Only steals as part of the job
      >Never betrays his allies
      >Acts generally honorably
      He's LG. But also, why not Chilchuk from Meshi as an Eastern example?
      >Accepts contract payments in advance but so committed to his job that he will never back after payment has been made
      >Serious about acting responsible to help maintain the reputation of half-foots in the dungeon community
      >Even acts as a local leader for half-foots and his daughter is a legitimate locksmith

      Chilchuck strikes me as more Neutral Good than really Lawful, but you're right in that his principled adherence to contracts may push him over the edge. But he's not really solidly planted in Good either, even though he ends up doing good even though he initially doesn't want to.

      If he's Lawful Good, he's awfully close to both Neutral Good and Lawful Neutral, I'd say, and could easily slip into Neutral. But I like the idea.

      "The locked door is in an of itself a law that closes itself off to outsiders.

      It is a law unto itself in the fabric of reality that lawfully it cannot be opened without the correct key.

      Picking a lock is by its very nature, unlawful.

      So no, it is not possible to be lawful good, and commit acts of burglary."

      - Gary Gaygax.

      Huh, not at all unreasonable. I'm on board with lockpicking being inherently Chaotic, but I'm not convinced that it is enough to make you not Lawful Good, and he doesn't seem to be either, considering that he specifies "burglary", not only lockpicking.

      Got a source on that quote, by the way, or did you literally just make it up?

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Chilchuck dedicated non-insignificant amount of his time to attempts at ogranising half-foot labour to prevent his fellows from being treated as monster bait. That makes him Lawful and arguably Good.

        Probably was just afraid of sanctioning communist homosexuals.

        What? No, genuinely, what?

  2. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Acolytes of Great Church who gather dangerous artefacts and relics from tombs, so they won't get in wrong hands.

  3. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    perhaps

  4. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Re: Gygax, lawful good does not countenance evil laws. So a thief that steals from evil rulers could be good. Maybe a thief who specializes in relieving malcontents of their priceless macguffins.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      "The locked door is in an of itself a law that closes itself off to outsiders.

      It is a law unto itself in the fabric of reality that lawfully it cannot be opened without the correct key.

      Picking a lock is by its very nature, unlawful.

      So no, it is not possible to be lawful good, and commit acts of burglary."

      - Gary Gaygax.

      >explicitly contradictory quotes from the crackhead authority figure who wrote the book he himself said you don't even need
      And nobody was surprised.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Probably was just afraid of sanctioning communist homosexuals.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        He said thieves can be good, not lawful. Nothing contradictory there, it just throws thieves into the chaotic good category

  5. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Yes, a Thief can be Lawful Good.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I can't believe the thread has ignored this post which is the most obvious, classic BURGLAR in all of western fiction. How does he operate?
      >Has a contract for his services
      >Only steals as part of the job
      >Never betrays his allies
      >Acts generally honorably
      He's LG. But also, why not Chilchuk from Meshi as an Eastern example?
      >Accepts contract payments in advance but so committed to his job that he will never back after payment has been made
      >Serious about acting responsible to help maintain the reputation of half-foots in the dungeon community
      >Even acts as a local leader for half-foots and his daughter is a legitimate locksmith

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >what's in my pocket?

        Chaotic evil.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Chilchuk
        >Pay him to assassinate a child
        >Does it, because he's bound by his contract
        Lawful Neutral.
        I don't even believe lawful evil or lawful good exist because the strict adherence to some code automatically means you've surrendered your morals to someone/something else.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          That's the purpose of aligned gods. If you're lawful and aligned with a lawful good God you're automatically lawful good. The purpose of these gods is to sidestep the great morality debate by using them to define good and evil.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I guess this makes sense.

            What if he refuses the contract on moral grounds?
            [...]
            The gods still expect you to act in line with their principles, though. If you don't act Lawful Good then your god is going to tell you to take a hike.

            It was already established by the other poster that he cares about his job so much that he always finishes it.

            What if it's a good code

            I don't believe any sufficiently written code when applied rigorously can be good. There are always exceptions, and once you start making exceptions where does it end? I use the phrase "sufficiently written" to rule out vague rulesets like "Don't do bad things" which put the interpretation back into the hands of the individual.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >It was already established by the other poster that he cares about his job so much that he always finishes it.
              Right, so then he has to be extra discerning when it comes to taking contracts in the first place. Unless he doesn't care. THAT would be LN or arguably even LE. But an LG character would obviously decline the contract in the first place.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Accepts contract payments in advance but so committed to his job that he will never back after payment has been made
                I assumed this implied that he accepts jobs without knowing what they are although that's not necessarily true. I don't know who Chilchuk is. After googling him, that doesn't seem to be the case. The "never back (out) after payment has been made" part made it seem otherwise.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              > There are always exceptions, and once you start making exceptions where does it end?
              That depends on whether or not you’re more concerned with being lawful or being good, I suppose. Please note that D&D’s stance on the matter is that you’re supposed to pick the latter. Note that Paladins fall automatically for committing an Evil act, but there’s no similar penalty for committing a Chaotic one. A Paladin is expected to always be good and to strive to be lawful, but if push comes to shove they are allowed to break the law if that’s what’s needed to be Good.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          What if he refuses the contract on moral grounds?

          That's the purpose of aligned gods. If you're lawful and aligned with a lawful good God you're automatically lawful good. The purpose of these gods is to sidestep the great morality debate by using them to define good and evil.

          The gods still expect you to act in line with their principles, though. If you don't act Lawful Good then your god is going to tell you to take a hike.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Agreed, they define what a good morality is, so if you do exactly what the lawful good God says you are lawful good. It could be argued that you could follow all the tenets of a lawful good God and still internally want to kill babied for fun, but I don't think that's an important enough distinction to debate for the sake of a game mechanic

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              That's a question of morality that's even highly debatable in real life. Imagine the most obviously good person you know and now imagine that they struggled their whole life with an urge to kill babies that they never acted upon. Does it make a difference?

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          What if it's a good code

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I can't believe the thread has ignored this post which is the most obvious, classic BURGLAR in all of western fiction. How does he operate?
      >Has a contract for his services
      >Only steals as part of the job
      >Never betrays his allies
      >Acts generally honorably
      He's LG. But also, why not Chilchuk from Meshi as an Eastern example?
      >Accepts contract payments in advance but so committed to his job that he will never back after payment has been made
      >Serious about acting responsible to help maintain the reputation of half-foots in the dungeon community
      >Even acts as a local leader for half-foots and his daughter is a legitimate locksmith

      Good
      betrays his allies

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        It's not a betrayal of them, since Bilbo did that explicitly to make the dwarves realize how idiotic their attachment to the wealth they lucked into was. He was taking the initiative to save them and bring about peace, which is the exact opposite of a betrayal.

  6. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Can a Thief be Lawful Good?
    Taxation.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      best post but not first post

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Taxation is lawful evil

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Taxes can be lawful evil. Evading taxation legally is lawful neutral and can be lawful good if the tax collectors are evil.

        So if I rape my wife in a state that makes it impossible for a wife to have her husband charged with rape, I'm "lawful"?

        You're a fricking moron.

        Yes. The inventor of the law vs chaos alignment chart was a Mormon or some other heretic.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Yes. The inventor of the law vs chaos alignment chart was a Mormon or some other heretic.
          Explains a lot if true, Mormons should be killed on-sight for many reasons.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        forcing everyone to contribute to the mutual benefit is not evil. if anything it's to counteract the evil of callous inaction or outright selfishness. "whether you like it or not, a portion of your money will be used for acts of good"

        it's only evil if the tax money is going to selfish purposes of those imposing the taxes.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Not if the people you are collecting taxes from are Evil.
        Only evil people pay taxes.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      If you're benefiting from a society without contributing to it, you're the thief. A chaotic evil thief, specifically.
      Taxes are not theft. They're the subscription fee for maintaining the services you use. It's called a "social contract". If you don't like it, then first pay back society for all the years of education and safety you've enjoyed, including your successful birth and healthy body, then fricking get out.
      Good luck with that, by the way, since you'll be paying back society literally with its own currency and by using the actual gifts you stole from it in the first place.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        You make society sound like a Warlock's bargain, and a forced deal at that.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Forcing people into a life debt when they're children isn't making a very good case for that not being theft.
        Even a loan shark requires you to voluntarily go to them and ask for money.

  7. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    An agent of the church and crown who destabilizes cults by infiltrating them and stealing their relics so they can be properly destroyed.

  8. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    This thread is full of roguelet cope.

    No you can't break the law and be lawful.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      So if I rape my wife in a state that makes it impossible for a wife to have her husband charged with rape, I'm "lawful"?

      You're a fricking moron.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        NTA, but yes.
        Lawful is a tendency to follow strict rules/guidelines/doctrine. If lawful meant doing what's right then it would not be a separate axis, just a sub-meaning of good
        That is to say, raping your wife is not an explicitly lawful action unless you're following a code that requires you to rape, but it doesn't exclude you from being lawful either.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          BRB changing the law to make it legal to rape your daughter.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Changing the law to be what you want is a chaotic action
            In either case you're evil, so prepare for paladins knocking down your door

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              What if he changes the law using legal, lawful methods? And if raping wives is legal, it doesn't feel like the biggest stretch to argue the legality of daughter raping. Seems to me, your initial definition was fricked, because how easily it get taken advantage of.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                [...]
                I also find fault in the thought that changing the law to what you want is a chaotic action. What if what you want is better work conditions? Or to stop slavery? Or may it illegal to discriminate just because of race/species, no other factors? Try as you'd like to argue, changing the law, especially using the law to change it within, is NOT chaotic.

                If you're changing the law of the land to align with a code you personally believe in that's lawful, if you're changing the law to make it so that other people have to do/believe in whatever is convenient for you that's chaotic.
                "Lawful" is the belief that there are immutable systems of behaviour a person must follow. This could be the law of the land, could be the tennets of a god, or it could be that the strong have a duty to enslave the weak.
                Your personal code of law could still be evil - as in it causes harm and suffering to others, or it could be neutral - it is focused on maximising your personal well being without caring about whether other people are helped or inconvenienced by it.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                If this is true you can alter everyone's alignment into being lawful.
                >chaotic neutral barbarian
                >now a lawful neutral barbarian after law changes

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Explain your reasoning
                A lawful person always obeys a code of law. A chaotic neutral barbarian might give money to a beggar one day and bash his head in the next, he has no fundamental belief in how he should act, he just acts however he feels like every day. Or someone who pays lip service to whatever authority is relevant but will not hesitate to contradict them when it's convenient is neutral on the law axis.
                Lawful means being rigid in a set of beliefs even when it's inconvenient. A lawful orc raider who believes in the rule of the strong will either die fighting or allow himself to be enslaved when defeated, he will not try to escape or rebel.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Go home, Lycurgus.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              What if he changes the law using legal, lawful methods? And if raping wives is legal, it doesn't feel like the biggest stretch to argue the legality of daughter raping. Seems to me, your initial definition was fricked, because how easily it get taken advantage of.

              I also find fault in the thought that changing the law to what you want is a chaotic action. What if what you want is better work conditions? Or to stop slavery? Or may it illegal to discriminate just because of race/species, no other factors? Try as you'd like to argue, changing the law, especially using the law to change it within, is NOT chaotic.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >Changing the law to be what you want is a chaotic action
              nuh uh, I've read Leviathan, I know how this shit works

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Good vs evil needs an absolute authority which itself has created good and bad and decides what's evil. In our society we're driven by the idea that evil is a development of the lack of good, while laws can be divine or human, the former telling us what is objectively good and what is evil by comparison with a posited good.

              Forcing people into a life debt when they're children isn't making a very good case for that not being theft.
              Even a loan shark requires you to voluntarily go to them and ask for money.

              Usury, defined originally and in still contemporary divine law as lending with interest, is evil

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Typical evil mental gymnastics
                Get smited nerd

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                It's smitten, and please explain what part of "usury aka lending with interest is objectively evil" is evil.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >Changing the law to be what you want is a chaotic action
              I'm pretty fricking sure whoever came up with the idea of "It's not rape if it's your wife" wasn't of sound mind, homosexual.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                It's like having sex with your other barnyard animals.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Yes. That is lawful. Evil, but lawful. That is exactly how LE societies are.
        That is also the law in countries with Sharia law.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Both statements can be true.

  9. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    If the authorities are unlawful in and of themselves

  10. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Absolutely. Look at landlords, for example. They take the welfare cut from rentoid trannies and circulate them back into the economy of the free market, likewise, they price them out of inhabitable zones, which is a net win for both population and city and thus is a Good act

  11. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Read the rules outlined for your game's "lawful good", then compare what's outlined for your game's "thief", and look for any contradictory or compatible elements.

  12. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    "The locked door is in an of itself a law that closes itself off to outsiders.

    It is a law unto itself in the fabric of reality that lawfully it cannot be opened without the correct key.

    Picking a lock is by its very nature, unlawful.

    So no, it is not possible to be lawful good, and commit acts of burglary."

    - Gary Gaygax.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Be me, evil
      >Use a large padlock as a shield
      >Paladin falls

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Be Lich
        >Ensure my lair has thousands of locked doors
        >Kidnap thousands of orphans and magically transplant the keys inside them such that the only way to get them out is to kill the orphan
        Checkmate paladins.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Party arrives at my lair
          >cast detect alignment on them

          "You and me... we aren't that different after all!"

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          That's just discount D&D Jigsaw.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >crafts a Wand of Knock

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Can locks be lawful evil in D&D?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Is this even real? He said so much moronic shit, it's hard to be sure. Law vs. Chaos is a moronic concept and this is a great example of why. Picking a lock is by its very nature unlawful? What the frick are you talking about? What about a locksmith getting you back into your house?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Yes, a locksmith violating the lock and key contract is chaotic. Are you under the impression that chaos is bad? Bad is a different axis.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Yes, alignments are descriptive not prescriptive. It is by no means a perfect or comprehensive system, but alignments aren't nearly as difficult to understand as /tg/ pretends it is.

      Of course it doesn't help that Gygax seemingly doesn't understand his own alignment system. Obviously the alignment system is going to be moronic if you only view it from one perspective and refuse to acknowledge your personal biases. Have you considered... simply not doing that? Applying the slightest bit of abstract thought whatsoever?

      'Lawfulness' is more than just a blind adherence to rules because they're rules (lawful neutral) or because it's easier than applying your own morals (lawful evil). Lawfulness is about consistency & logic, and disobeying unjust laws in favour of a personal moral code could be a lawful good act just as much as it could potentially be chaotic good- depending on the actions taken.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Thief the class is not inherently a Burglar.

      >Picking a lock is by its very nature, unlawful.
      Then no lawful dungeon crawling adventurers exist, because by its nature every dungeon is a place intended to keep people such as the party out and away from its contents that the party intends to retrieve.
      This is something that has often been suspected, but it's good to have him confirm it word of god via syllogism.

  13. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    a tow truck driver removing a car illegally parked in an emergency lane would be an example of a lawful good thief

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      He isn't stealing the car, he is moving the car.
      In this analogy he would either be a Cleric or Paladin.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        What about Repomen then?

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          What is a repoman stealing?
          They are getting something back, not theft.

  14. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Be a thief who only retrieves stolen property to return to the rightful owner. You could even get a license from the authorities (like private investigators or bounty hunters).

  15. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Of course.

  16. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Yes, bout you wouldn't call him a "Thief" but a Scout, an Investigator, an Expert, etc... Basically the same set of skills but in service of a legitimate authority.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      So you mean "no".

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        He means "AD&D and OSE like to give the same class different names depending on level and alignment for almost entirely flavor reasons"

  17. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I mean technically a good repo-man legaly uses a thief's skill set to retrieve property

  18. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    That's a man

  19. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    idealized Robin Hood

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      If authority abuses taxes, then a thief stealing from them to give back to the poor, who will someday contribute back said money into taxes is lawful good

      Robin Hood is the literal textbook example of Chaotic Good tho

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Which is dumb as shit cause Robin Hood is only rebelling against the authority of an unjust ruler, so the moment the lawful king is restored he'll suddenly become lawful good?

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          No, he'll be driven to go off somewhere else or deal with some other corrupt official some moral, but lawless way.
          How do you manage to misunderstand alignment so badly that you think material conditions changing would change someone's alignment?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            That's why he said "idealized Robin Hood", dumbo.

  20. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    A thief can be Good-aligned. Not Lawful though.

  21. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    If authority abuses taxes, then a thief stealing from them to give back to the poor, who will someday contribute back said money into taxes is lawful good

  22. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Forceful re-acquisition of unlawfully acquired goods via unlawful methods in order to give said goods back to their rightful owners.
    All done on the behest of a government organization.

  23. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I think you guys are confused. The character class is to give you an idea of what the character excels at.Not what they do for a living/job.Someone who is a thief class is good at remaining unseen and taking things without being noticed, not explicitly theft. Like your character can be an assassin but never killed anyone before.

  24. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    It would make as much sense as a Chaotic Evil Nurse.
    Lawful Good characters are not concerned with "Laws" per se. They respect Order, the kind of order which promotes societies that want peace and justice.
    Imagine a society full of "Lawful Good" thieves stealing from each other. How long do you think any Order would last. And would it be peaceful and just.
    Here's a better question. If a Lawful Good npc Thief steals from your Lawful Good Thief is that thief doing a "good" thing to your character?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Nurse is a legal occupation. You can go through nursing school, get hired as a nurse, and then proceed to murder and abuse patients. It happens. But "thief" is not an occupation as such. Theft is itself legally defined as a unlawful taking of someone else's property. A thief is entirely defined by what he does and what he does is defined as unlawful. A "thief" who doesn't do his "job" is not a thief, unlike a nurse who doesn't do his job.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >They respect Order, the kind of order which promotes societies that want peace and justice.
      Ah, but suppose such a society does not exist, or did exist but collapsed due to either internal corruption or outside force. It's now become lawless, tyrannical, where the strong prey on the weak because they have the power to do so and the weak don't have the power to stop them.

      But then imagine there's someone who remembers the time before this took over. He's grown up in his lawless society of warlords and gang-leaders and so on, but he remembers when things used to be different, better. He wants to help, to change things, to make things better for people, but he's not much of a fighter. He can't really hit hard, not without fighting dirty and going for the kidneys or the nuts. He can't really take much of a hit, but he is nimble and agile, so he can avoid being hit in the first place. Years of trying to avoid the gangs have made him adept at being furtive and stealthy and the traps they sometimes set, which he's also become good at identifying and disarming. And when that stealth failed he turned to his natural charm and charisma to talk his way out of trouble.

      He can't directly fight the system. But he can manipulate it, set gangs against one another, weaken them while simultaneously trying to convince the people to rise up against them, to bring back the good old days that he remembers.

      Et voila. Plausible background for a Lawful Good thief.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        No, the character in your example is text book, Lawful Neutral. Lawful Good characters wouldn't resort to blatant thievery to oppose corruption and tyrants.

  25. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Indiana Jones

  26. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    No, alignment actually being a game mechanic is a good thing. When I switched to 3.5e I was surprised by all the things that interacted with alignment. Honestly I think they should have taken it further. I think that rogues should be restricted to nonlawful alignments.

  27. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The IRS if they were good guys.

  28. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    You could, but you'd be relegated almost entirely to swiping monster hoards

  29. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Yes.
    >Only hit places of corruption & those who can afford being robbed
    >Send prior warnings
    >Steal to prove the weakness of the security system
    >Return stolen items to rightful owners
    >Use profits to aid community

  30. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    pentester

  31. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    A lawful good thief is basically a locksmith.

  32. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Now that initial question has been answered. How do we separate the thief from the Rogue? I suppose that's an impossible task as they are symbolically linked in the same way the assassin is linked to the rogue even though anyone can be a thief or an assassin.

    Alas, all people do is thoughtlessly ape whatever they saw before and it becomes some indisputable idea akin to 1+2=3

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      You don't. Rogue is just a kitchen sink'ed version of Thief that was made to let edgy childred have their cake and eat it too. It doesn't represent any real concept so you can't really analyze the psychology or behavior behind the fictional identity.

  33. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Can a Thief be Lawful Good?
    it's called an archeologist.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Indiana Jones

      Only good answers

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I mean, it's literally in the rulebook.

        Heck, it goes all the way back to fricking Tolkien,
        >“I was talking about you. And I assure you there is a mark on this door—the usual one in the trade, or used to be. 'Burglar wants a good job, plenty of Excitement and reasonable Reward,' that’s how it is usually read. You can say Expert Treasure-hunter instead of Burglar if you like. Some of them do. It’s all the same to us."

        Hell, it's a technicality the British Museum has been using for more than a century.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Considering that Egyptologists in Britain would literally rather die then see any harm come to the mummies in their possession, verses how much damage has been done to Egyptian archaeological sites left under Egyptian care over the past 20-30 years, and I tend to side with the British on this one.

          Likewise the only reason the British even have the Parthenon Marbles is that the Greeks tried to blow them up.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Egyptologists in Britain would literally rather die then see any harm come to the mummies in their possession
            is that before or after they were grinding them down for use as a paint pigment, unwrapping them at dinner parties, or eating them as an alleged medicine for headaches and heart attacks?

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              After. I’m talking about Egyptologists today, obviously, given that I was clearly also talking about modern Egypt.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >they were grinding them down for use as a paint pigment
              Is this why we can't get a good shade of yellow in the year of our lord 2024?

  34. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    No, Neutral or Chaotic at best.
    >But Gygax said
    Gygaxian alignment is dumb and reading it as shorthand for behaviors is a much better alternative, funnily enough.
    People need to stop trying so hard to subvert abstractions and realize that working within those abstractions is what makes archetypical fantasy/storytelling engaging.

  35. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Yes, but only if you count Repo Men.

  36. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    perhaps if he worked for the state. could James Bond be LG?

  37. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Thieves tend to take things against the owner's wishes. Lawful means working within the laws. So maybe as a court appointed Bailiff?

  38. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    No. Property rights are the basis of all rights.

  39. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Unless you're a paladin your law-chaos moral code can be personal
    >I only steal from the rich
    >I steal but don't kill
    >I only steal/kill for my master
    >I only steal/kill for beautiful women
    >I only steal from and kill the wicked
    >I only steal/kill for the sake of my homeland
    >I only steal/kill for the sake of ruining this specific ethnic group who controls the kingdom
    etc.

  40. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    No. The last time their was a Character Class specifically known as the "Thief" was in 2nd Edition AD&D.
    And it literally says the Thief cannot be Lawful Good.

  41. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    do they thieve for a lawful and good reason?
    then yes.
    Like an intelegence agent or something (spy).

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