>can only play self-insert characters in any RPG. >D&D?

>can only play self-insert characters in any RPG
>D&D? literally just me if I was a wizard
>WoD? literally just me if I was a vampire
>Starfinder? literally just me if I was a space rogue
>Cyberpunk? literally just me if I was a sci fi mercenary
I've recently ran into an issue where I'm starting to distrust the players in my table IRL because of increasingly grey morality scenarios in our games. I unironically think that all players are basically self-inserting and I'm starting to judge people based on their in-game actions. Being okay with indirectly funding war crimes if it means siphoning money from a megacorp in our game? I'm thinking you have a fricked moral compass IRL too and I kinda don't want to associate with you anymore.

Is this normal thinking for RPGs or am I fricking schizo?

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  1. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    You're one of those near brainless people without an ability to roleplay. And that inability has fricked your ability to understand others as well. Your version of empathy is just "what if I lived that person's life." You probably don't really even have theory of mind.

    All of that is to say you probably shouldn't roleplay. The game is a game, and the point of it is to roleplay as other people who make decisions you wouldn't because they are other people. In the same way playing an fps video game doesn't make you any more able to shoot people in real life.
    So either stop judging your friends for roleplaying, something you are incapable of, or stop playing the game.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      But I know I'm not a wizard irl, I know I'm not a vampire irl, these are important being-defining traits that someone needs to think about when *roleplaying* which is exactly what I'm doing. In a game where you have goals (get money, get treasure, get fame etc.) I don't understand why you have to involve being an butthole in the equation. Why would you be willing to do overtly evil acts in game for sometimes no objective benefit unless you derive the pleasure and your goal is to commit the fictional evil act itself?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Yet, you said yourself you are completely unable to generate a persona. This isn't the game for you, maybe later in your life.
        That sounds like immaturity or a serious lack of reading.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          You are making me genuinely curious about what other people mean when they say they're "roleplaying" a character if it's so different from what I'm doing. Can you please explain it to me?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            It's a form of [playful] acting, as in, deciding quickly how a character, whose set values you decided on, would behave in new situation.
            While your own experience will change the output, none of the characters are "literally you".
            The real aim is the time spent in a group.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >Why would you be willing to do overtly evil acts in game for sometimes no objective benefit unless you derive the pleasure and your goal is to commit the fictional evil act itself?
              Because you are taking on the persona of an evil person. Roleplaying a person that is fundamentally not you. Its not you with a hat, like you describe you playing a wizard or vampire, its playing a completely different person with a different morality. Out of character you understand that what this roleplayed persona does is not good or moral, but in character, that is what that character would do.

              You said yourself you're unable to create a separate character, only play "you with a hat." That ISN'T what other people are doing. They don't necessarily identify with the actions of their character. The reason playing a character that is evil can be fun, is that you fully understand that this character is not you, and the world is fake. Its like going on a rampage in GTA. You wouldn't shoot up a street IRL, but you do it in game for fun.

              I still don't understand the distinction. When I roleplay being a space bandit, I know that "I" irl don't have the charisma or the wits of Han Solo, but I know that the game is about shooting bad guys and getting cool stuff for my ship. So I imagine how I would act if I had to achieve those goals.

              To me it sounds like you both are still describing the same process. You know that you're not an evil murdering frick, and you're imagining how you would act in game if you were an evil murderer.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                At this point, it's becoming a shitpost. You do not play a role if you only take the decision you would consider socially correct in the occidental world.
                You do no play at all, you at best can call it interacting in shared make believe fantasy. You can play the game like that, but you do not "roleplay" anything.
                Do you consider playing a preset character in a videogame roleplaying?
                I'm not bumping anymore anyway.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                You're almost there.
                Take the "I" out.
                I'm not roleplaying as if I am in that situation. I'm roleplaying a separate character that is in that situation. It is acting. Your favourite movie stars do not act as if they are the one in that role, they are acting as a separately created character in that role. Al Pacino is not acting as if He was the Devil in Devil's Advocate, he is pretending to be the Devil and his own personality does not enter into it. You don't pretend to be you in that situation, you pretend to be a different person in that situation. You imagine what another person might think and do, not what you might think and do. The only different in TTRPGs is you don't have a script to guide you.

                I'm with this guy

                At this point, it's becoming a shitpost. You do not play a role if you only take the decision you would consider socially correct in the occidental world.
                You do no play at all, you at best can call it interacting in shared make believe fantasy. You can play the game like that, but you do not "roleplay" anything.
                Do you consider playing a preset character in a videogame roleplaying?
                I'm not bumping anymore anyway.

                At this point I'm pretty sure you're either too autistic to understand or are just shitposting.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                At this point, it's becoming a shitpost. You do not play a role if you only take the decision you would consider socially correct in the occidental world.
                You do no play at all, you at best can call it interacting in shared make believe fantasy. You can play the game like that, but you do not "roleplay" anything.
                Do you consider playing a preset character in a videogame roleplaying?
                I'm not bumping anymore anyway.

                Okay, so I'm starting to kinda understand but not really I think you both may be right that my tism is preventing me from grasping it.

                In that case why play butthole/evil characters at all? The replies in this thread so far are some variations of "it's not real" so if we set aside for a bit my personal misgivings and beliefs that only irl butthole players would play butthole characters, then where is the fun in inserting needless drama if you wanna be the "muh complex antihero" in a game? We're playing to have fun and work together to achieve a goal, what value does a character who says
                >here is x solution that will bring us closer to our goal, functionally it is similar to the other route except it's morally ambiguous or maybe even evilll!
                The result is a philosophical dick waving contest about morality and ethics when we could've been doing objectives 30 minutes ago

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                If someone writes a book about Napoleon do you think they're writing about what they would do if they were Napoleon? I hope not. What about a fictional character? It is the same basic idea.
                Your issue about drama is completely separate. Working against the player group is nothing to do with playing an evil character, and is generally a bad move because it will annoy the real people you're playing with, not because the character is immoral.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >We're playing to have fun and work together to achieve a goal,
                Yes, and some people find it more fun when the game goes to more interesting places that would not occur in real life.

                The morally correct thing for a cyberpunk character to do would probably be to retire and get normal office jobs and make money through honest work. But instead, you make characters who would decide to become cyberpunk mercenaries, because the system has all these rules for hacking computers and shooting people and bypassing corporate security.

                An butthole player can make an butthole character in an effort to be disruptive. But an butthole player can also be disruptive if they decide to call the police whenever their cyberpunk mercenary team-members commit a crime.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Every character is a self-insert. That's literally how all fiction works. Everyone self-inserts all the time. "What if I were an butthole" can be interesting though, but if players play out fricking fricked up people all the time while having a laugh about it, they're probably bad persons.
                That or they don't take role-playing seriously at all which just sucks.

                >The morally correct thing for a cyberpunk character to do would probably be to retire and get normal office jobs
                Lol

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Every character is a self-insert.
                Literal NPC thought process

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                No anon, that's how art works. You put pieces of yourselves in everything, that you then twist, distort, all that to both make the work believable and true, and to learn about yourself. Why else would you create, paint, write, or roleplay? That might be a very Nordic LARP ethos I have, I admit I do not care much about rollplaying, but that's how you do art.
                Isn't Conan just Howard self-inserting a perfect version of himself? Isn't Meursault just a dark Camus? Aren't Dorian/Harry/Basil all facets of Oscar Wilde?

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Isn't Conan just Howard self-inserting a perfect version of himself? Isn't Meursault just a dark Camus? Aren't Dorian/Harry/Basil all facets of Oscar Wilde?
                They don't have to be. A character can be made up of whole cloth and powered by the imagination of the author. Its easier to conjure a character that has similarities to yourself, sure, but we're trying to educate an actual autist that that doesn't mean the character is just literally you with magic or literally you that can use a sword. Using a piece of yourself is not the same as that.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Oh yes definitely, I didn't really read what OP wrote because it felt like bait. Otoh I would think it's even stronger to emphasise aspects of yourself in role-playing, since you're not using thd character as a tool to drive your story, since you're (usually) playing with a referee.

                you don't know what self inserting is

                Maybe. If it's to make "me with a big sword and huge muscles and who gets all the girls" it is indeed a tad cringe. But at least it's earnest and way better than cynical role-playing.

                How incredibly deep, anon. Only Howard wrote both Conan and Thoth-Amon—along with other characters in the books—whereas OP is incapable of roleplaying even one dude that's not him.

                Are they or do they willingly exaggerate their point to drive more engagement to the thread?
                But OP or not, I think it's truly interesting how much some people are willing to bend or not for their PC - I seldom see, say, men playing women earnestly and not just "teehee I'm so blonde" or some coomer fanfic.
                I really think there's a zeitgeist in RP and art nowadays when the fear of being cringe (or looking gay if you willingly put yourself in the shoes of a woman earnestly, say) outweighs honesty. It's really sad and a detriment to our hobby.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >I seldom see, say, men playing women earnestly and not just "teehee I'm so blonde" or some coomer fanfic
                Find a more mature group. Out of interest, how old are you?

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >I really think there's a zeitgeist in RP and art nowadays when the fear of being cringe
                Its just a more general trend of being hyper aware of appearances because half our society is structured around performative nonsense for an ever present crowed of digital observers. Even if you aren't filming RIGHT NOW the sense that those observers are there, and judging, has become ubiquitous to life. So people constantly self censor and become generally flatter in character because of our digital crowd. Or, potentially, do the opposite and perform even louder, but that too is just a performance.

                Anyway, thats all outside the thread's scope.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                you don't know what self inserting is

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                How incredibly deep, anon. Only Howard wrote both Conan and Thoth-Amon—along with other characters in the books—whereas OP is incapable of roleplaying even one dude that's not him.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >No anon, that's how art works
                That's not only wrong, it's completely incoherent. If I paint a landscape am I self-inserting into a fricking tree?
                Of course art reflects the artist, but that isn't remotely the same thing.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Depends on how you read "self-insert." You are definitely inserting your vision, and thus yourself.

                >I seldom see, say, men playing women earnestly and not just "teehee I'm so blonde" or some coomer fanfic
                Find a more mature group. Out of interest, how old are you?

                30. But those people I'm thinking about are also 30 nowadays. I haven't played with them in years, but I do not think they've changed. I do not think age has made people more mature or anything, sadly. I wish it were so.

                >I really think there's a zeitgeist in RP and art nowadays when the fear of being cringe
                Its just a more general trend of being hyper aware of appearances because half our society is structured around performative nonsense for an ever present crowed of digital observers. Even if you aren't filming RIGHT NOW the sense that those observers are there, and judging, has become ubiquitous to life. So people constantly self censor and become generally flatter in character because of our digital crowd. Or, potentially, do the opposite and perform even louder, but that too is just a performance.

                Anyway, thats all outside the thread's scope.

                Yeah, you're definitely putting the finger on something here. There's this profound unease since social media have become ubiquitous. As a famous Englishman would put it - All the world's a stage. And everyone is always watching.
                I am on pain meds after a surgery so my apologies for definitely going way too far away from the topic at hand lol.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                You have an impaired ability to empathise, and subsequently to create realised characters with character traits other than yourself. You essentially do not fully have the capacity to imagine another person than yourself. Congratulations, you most likely have autism. People without autism can do this very easily, basically simulate an entirely different person. People with impaired capacity to empathise can develop it through practise, and it also improves passively with age.

                Some people are of course beyond hope.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                He's saying it in a dipshit pretentious way but there is a real point in there buried under his own idiocy. Everything a person does is filtered by, and limited by, their experiences and their understanding. Everything that a person creates and does comes from something that is already within them. You can't imagine a color you've never seen. In the same way, you can't make up a person without imagining them first, and your imagination is based on what you remember. People with better empathy remember more about the people they meet, and the stories they tell, and the interactions they have, which is why people get better at empathy as they go through varied, major events. If you make up a dickbag thief, then it's because you have a capacity in you for the dickbag thief, though that means frickall one way or the other about your ability to not act like a dickbag thief, which is the part OP can't understand.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >your imagination is based on what you remember
                where did this artist go to remember this scenery?

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >He doesn’t know about the secret mushroom caves

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Think of how AIslop creates images. It has a library of pictures and assigns symbols to them like "cave", "mushroom", "canyon" etc. then it uses the algorithm to compose those symbols together to form a picture that matches how it interprets a prompt.

                It's basically the same process in humans, you have a library of images that you've seen whether in real life or in pictures, and when an artist sits down and goes "I'm gonna make a glowing mushroom cave today" they just put those memories of images together into an artwork.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >cave
                A real thing people have experience with.
                >mushroom
                A real thing people have experience with.
                >glowing
                A real thing people have experience with.
                >bad color theory
                A real thing people have experience with.
                >reposting poorly made generated slop as if you put in any work at all
                A real thing p

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                This is line with Thomas Nagel's mind-body problem and I want you to know that Nagel was a frick and I am a bat. I can imagine what it's like to be a person made out of rock, that does not mean I have the capacity to be made out of rock, or that I necessarily have the ability to mentally cope with becoming a rock. Everything you think, by necessity, needs to go through your own lens of subjectivity because you only access objective reality through your own subjective experience, and despite this being able to imagine things that have not existed is an ordinary ability. The King Colour is clear and vivid in my mind's eye, and I can imagine weightlessness, and I can imagine being a CEO, and I can imagine what it's like to be torn apart by razor blades. Are these images 1:1 to reality? Maybe, maybe not, it's unimportant, because to me they are real, and to the people I explain them to they are sufficiently real to elicit stimuli equivalent to it being real. If this is not your experience of your own imagination then I feel bad for you, but I am sure your experience is just as amazing as mine in a different way.

                I soar through the night on leathery wings, the world is a series of geometrical shapes, the taste of moth is sweet on my bat tongue.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >I still don't understand the distinction
                Have you ever been diagnosed with or treated for Autism?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Why would you be willing to do overtly evil acts in game for sometimes no objective benefit unless you derive the pleasure and your goal is to commit the fictional evil act itself?
        Because you are taking on the persona of an evil person. Roleplaying a person that is fundamentally not you. Its not you with a hat, like you describe you playing a wizard or vampire, its playing a completely different person with a different morality. Out of character you understand that what this roleplayed persona does is not good or moral, but in character, that is what that character would do.

        You said yourself you're unable to create a separate character, only play "you with a hat." That ISN'T what other people are doing. They don't necessarily identify with the actions of their character. The reason playing a character that is evil can be fun, is that you fully understand that this character is not you, and the world is fake. Its like going on a rampage in GTA. You wouldn't shoot up a street IRL, but you do it in game for fun.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Why would you be willing to do overtly evil acts in game
        Why would I not be willing to? It's a game. The evil acts and their consequences are all fictional. As long as I don't upset anyone else that's playing, no harm is done. Whether it's an RPG, a board game, video game, or whatever else, the evil is fictional and does not matter.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Start by picking a major character trait or motivation that you wouldn't do or wouldn't want to be and go from there. Make them crazy, gluttonous, obsessive or a cripple. You're supposed to look at self-inserts as the absolute height of cringe - if your character is anything like yourself at all, you have failed as a roleplayer. Simple as.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >if your character is anything like yourself at all, you have failed as a roleplayer.
          >Funny answer
          Yeah, if your character breathes oxygen, that's a red flag.
          >Real answer
          That's taking it too far I feel like, there are a lot of universally transferable thoughts, feelings and attitudes that a character just wouldn't work without.

  2. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >can only play self-insert characters in any RPG
    That's your problem. Assuming it applies to everyone else is called "projecting".

  3. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I can only rp if I am in a good mood. Its literally impossibel to get in anothers head if I cant get in my own.

  4. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous
  5. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    LMAO I swear the hobby is full of NPCs like OP, I had a player like that in one of my groups. It's like only being able to play music using note charts. IMO people like that are akin to those having hereditary mental illnesses and shouldn't reproduce

  6. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I know I'm not playing a self-insert because when I tabletop I can actually talk to people and sometimes even express a thought coherently.

  7. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    You're schizo, but unlike most schizos, you're also dull and unimaginative and a low effort RPer. Change hobbies.

  8. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    You're a schizo, unfortunately. Do you also believe that everyone who's ever written a book has written that book about themselves regardless of what the subject matter actually is?
    Only autists self-insert. Maybe if you're a small child it's okay, but it's simply shameful otherwise.

  9. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >I unironically think that all players are basically self-inserting and I'm starting to judge people based on their in-game actions.
    Wow that's moronic. Is that what you wanted to hear? Me telling you that you're moronic?

  10. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    you have autism

  11. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    If you've ever killed a monster in D&D you're a serial killer in real life

  12. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    You have no imagination and you're projecting your mental deficit on other people. Unironic skill issue, both in the mental capacity and in your social ability.

  13. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Just play a moron, anon. You can use the same method you always do.

  14. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >soulless golem projecting his own lack of creative spark onto others around him
    Do your group a favor and retire from playing RPGs.

  15. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >I've recently ran into an issue where I'm starting to distrust the players in my table IRL because of increasingly grey morality scenarios in our games.
    This is right and good. I remember watching Steve Lumpkin's West Marches game on the itsmejp channel, and this piece of shit (Adam Koebel) played a completely psychotic, chaotic evil character.
    Later it turned out that the various DMs on the channel sent Adam to negotiate with the owner for better terms, and Adam sold them all out, struck a seperate deal, and every other DM got fired.
    He also like sexually harassed a player in a game or some shit later and got cancelled.
    Later it turned out that

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Later it turned out that
      Please don't leave us hanging here...

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      This is stupid. Thousands of normal people play as cut-throat freaks once a week for years and never do anything wrong. You've misidentified the causal factor entirely. He was a piece of shit because he's a failed white actor with a beard. Being told he should succeed and then being completely incapable of doing so drove him to madness, which he was already close to because of being an aspiring performer in the first place, and therefore a socially stunted attention prostitute.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I dunno dude I've never heard or seen anyone from anywhere tell stories like "hey did you hear that Johnny the dude who plays the paladin who helps orphans is apparently a member of the aryan brotherhood irl?". It's almost like having the drive to be an evil butthole in a fictional setting stems from a capacity or inclination to be one irl

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >I've never heard or seen anyone from anywhere tell stories like "hey did you hear that Johnny the dude who plays the paladin who helps orphans is apparently a member of the aryan brotherhood irl?"
          yes because they're uninteresting stories
          it's like the kids who dedicated their whole lives to sports and then didn't get in the league. there's millions of them but no one cares

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            My point is whenever you exchange stories about butthole players irl or "those guys" 99.9% of the time you already have some variation of
            >combative with party members
            >needlessly evil to npcs
            >has some weird fixation with violence or graphic descriptions
            >always has to be the one party member who will say something like "why dont we just torture him for info"
            which does lend some credence to the butthole character = most likely butthole person

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              The player being a prick to the other players, and also playing an evil character - is not the same as the player being kind to the other players, and also playing an evil character.
              >butthole player, butthole character: butthole person.
              >Alright player, butthole character: alright person.
              The player who most believably played a psychopath in my games, was also the only player who ever spoke up at the table asking if everyone was okay with how evil their character was being.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Except you often hear stories of buttholes playing as paladins who disrupt the game by being holier-than-thou homosexuals who white knight for NPCs at the expense of the real people they're playing with.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Be me, a rogue with a smiley for a face
                >Try to pick a pocket, I love living out the fantasy of being a rogue in a medieval world
                >Paladin grabs me by the wiener and also balls, tears them straight off, and drags me to the gallows and personally hangs me in front of terrified guards
                >All the NPCs that stand in his way are cut down trying to save my life
                >Ask Paladinplayer what the frick?
                >"I am roleplaying a based cool dude who is good, he hates crime and also hurting others."
                Simplified example, colourised (green)

  16. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    you are not only a fricking shizo but also a moralistic puritan, very likely not even meeting your own standards. homosexual

  17. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I'd only worry about it if they consistently play the same type of character game after game. For what it's worth my characters are just aspects of myself that I play up/Flanderize into something else. Small pieces given life to themselves. I'm generally not a thief, but when I was completely broke I didn't hesitate to steal food/clothing from stores. I can take that part of me, the poor desperate me, and play it up make a what if. What if I had continued, what if I had moved onto burglarizing homes, what if I had lost that part that hurt my pride by being a thief? And so I have my thief character that is in many ways based on me, but is not me.

  18. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Lmao imagine self inserting into any role play after your first few games when you're learning and don't want to actually create a character.
    You're creatively bankrupt and make everything less fun just by existing.
    Low IQ behavior.

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