Genuine question: What the fuck is an immersive sim?

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    • #460628
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Genuine question: What the fuck is an immersive sim?

    • #460629
      Anonymous
      Guest

      yo MOMMA

      • #460630
        Anonymous
        Guest

        GOTTEM

    • #460631
      Anonymous
      Guest

      A miserable pile of secrets

      • #460752
        Anonymous
        Guest

        shit*

    • #460632
      Anonymous
      Guest

      not bioshock, that’s the one thing we can be certain about

      • #460637
        Anonymous
        Guest

        Fun fact: Bioshock actually was an immersive sim at some point during development it’s just that playtesters didn’t get the games systems so they simplified it down to sweet fuck all and turned it into way more of a mindless shooter:
        >At this point we had already done one small round of internal focus testing with friends of friends, which had turned out mostly positive feedback. So, just after the first beta, the entire design team plus a contingent of 2K producers headed off to see how a group that knew nothing about our company or BioShock would react to the first level.

        >It was brutal.

        >The first level, they said, was overly dense, confusing, and not particularly engaging. Players would acquire new powers but not know how to use them, so they stuck to using more traditional weapons and became frustrated. They didn’t interact with the Big Daddies, and they didn’t understand (or care) how to modify their characters. They were so overwhelmed by dialogue and backstory that they missed key information. A few of the players did start to see the possible depth of the game, but even they were frustrated by the difficulty of actually using the systems we had created.

        >Based on this humbling feedback, we came to the realization that our own instincts were not serving us well. We were making a game that wasn’t taking the initial user experience into account, and we weren’t thinking enough about how to make it accessible to a wide variety of players.

        >After the focus test, we went back to the drawing board for the entire learning sequence of the game.

        It’s all right here:
        https://www.gamedeveloper.com/design/postmortem-2k-boston-2k-australia-s-bioshock

        Fuck playtesters

        • #460639
          Anonymous
          Guest

          >how to make it accessible to a wide variety of players
          every fucking time

          • #460648
            Anonymous
            Guest

            It gets even more depressing the more you read:
            >The spec of BioShock changed so much over the course of development that we spent the majority of the time making the wrong game- an extremely deep game, and at times an interesting one, but it was not a groundbreaking game that would appeal to a wide audience.
            >We knew from the start that we’d have to make late changes to really bring the game to life-we had even built our original schedule to allow for six months of finalizing-but the amount of change that we ended up needing seriously exceeded our remaining schedule. Ultimately, we were very lucky to get an extension in the eleventh hour.
            >Part of the reason for the late course change came from not having our internal product message clear from the beginning. BioShock had initially been positioned as a hybrid RPG FPS. The decision to reposition the game as a focused FPS came later, after our initial production phase in summer of 2006. Had we been working with an FPS mentality earlier, we could have made better use of our time.

            Fuck me what could’ve been. Imagine Bioshock with System Shock 2’s depth of gameplay.

            >gamedeveloper
            It implies an artistic medium. How dare they

            It’s just gamasutra – they rebranded recently. It’s still a shitty site but the old postmortems you can find on there are really interesting

            • #460649
              Anonymous
              Guest

              I smell a talentless dev from afar. Why don’t just go sell shoes or something

        • #460647
          Anonymous
          Guest

          >gamedeveloper
          It implies an artistic medium. How dare they

        • #460651
          Anonymous
          Guest

          The quote does not support your claim. What it says is what needed to change was the way things were introduced.
          From this fact plus the game not being imsim at any point in its play, we must deduce that it was never intended to be an imsim. Rather, the game was as it is now, but with more powers available earlier on

          • #460653
            Anonymous
            Guest

            Read the full thing that’s linked. Basically it was going to be an FPS/RPG hybrid and it got massively simplified during development.

    • #460633
      Anonymous
      Guest

      I mean here’s the actual definition you wankers, from Looking Glass themselves. Bioshock ain’t one.

      • #460642
        Anonymous
        Guest

        And for those of you who can’t be bothered reading here’s the short version

      • #460734
        Anonymous
        Guest

        And for those of you who can’t be bothered reading here’s the short version

        TLDR: giving players a variety of ways to interact with enemies and the environment, with the goal of allowing the player to complete objectives in whatever way they can think of, even if it’s something the devs never thought of.

        • #460747
          Anonymous
          Guest

          >giving players a variety of ways to interact with enemies and the environment, with the goal of allowing the player to complete objectives in whatever way they can think of
          So, basic features that should be in every game by default.

          • #460749
            Anonymous
            Guest

            yes, you should be able to talk the tetris pieces into organizing in neat rows

    • #460634
      Anonymous
      Guest

      a game that gives you a bunch of cool systems to work with where you can find unintended ways to do stuff, break the game, do things in a complete non linear fashion, etc.

      • #460636
        Anonymous
        Guest

        it supposed to be a design style not a genre

        this is the right idea
        immersive sim is supposed to describe how you play not what you are playing

      • #460656
        Anonymous
        Guest

        i always thought that a good way to know if a game is an immersive sim is after playing through it, I could go on youtube and watch a "good" player playing through it making me go "what the fuck, you can do that". That usually causes me to replay the game using whatever tricks I might see other players using and experiment with my own ways of doing things which might cause me to play the game in a radically different way

        • #460658
          Anonymous
          Guest

          i found out like earlier this year you can block laser grids in deus ex with a fire extinguisher. and ive played through the game multiple times for 2 decades.

          • #460661
            Anonymous
            Guest

            that feeling is the best lmao. Probably the reason why I love games like this so much

          • #460662
            Anonymous
            Guest

            and the pepper spray works for blocking laser grids as well

          • #460698
            Anonymous
            Guest

            Fire extinguishers are surprisingly handy in Deus Ex, human enemies are really easy to knock out by spraying them with one and then hitting them once with the baton.

            • #460701
              Anonymous
              Guest

              pepper spray became my most used tool after I realized it pretty much disables any enemy besides commandos setting them up for a quick knowckout

    • #460635
      Anonymous
      Guest

      It’s when you see a lot of guards at the gate, but discover a convenient, man sized vent/sewer, hidden behind a box or potplant, that helps you avoid the encounter

    • #460638
      Anonymous
      Guest

      If I can’t pick up or interact in some way with the majority of objects in the environment then its not an immersive sim.

    • #460640
      Anonymous
      Guest

      ATTENTION Ganker. Ganker ADMIN HERE. IT IS TIME TO CALL IMMERISVE SIMS "IMMIDWIT SIMS" SO WE WILL DESTROY ALL TRUMP SUPPORTERS WHO SUPPORT THE MISOGYNISTIC NATURE OF THESE DANGEROUS GAMES. THIS RULE WILL GO IN PLACE IN ONE HOUR

    • #460641
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Apparently any game that has stealth mechanics and either a stat to manage other than HP or at least one nonlethal weapon

    • #460643
      Anonymous
      Guest

      I only played SS1, not gonna play anything else there

      • #460644
        Anonymous
        Guest

        Thief 1 and 2 and Ultima Underworld are legit really good. Ultima Underworld is in desperate need of a source port ala SS1 Enhanced though.

        • #460645
          Anonymous
          Guest

          Ok I’ll check them out

          • #460646
            Anonymous
            Guest

            With Thief you need to download the TFix/NewDark patches. Would recommend TFix Lite though, full TFix changes too much shit especially in the first game. Same devs as System Shock 1 too.

          • #460654
            Anonymous
            Guest

            based easily swayed anon

    • #460650
      Anonymous
      Guest

      immersive sim is a game that relies on emergent gameplay rather than scripted sequences.

    • #460652
      Anonymous
      Guest

      rpg-lite action game

    • #460655
      Anonymous
      Guest

      You are playing an immersive sim when you don’t know that it’s an immersive sim. Simple as

      • #460657
        Anonymous
        Guest

        If you die in an immersive sim do you die for real?

        • #460659
          Anonymous
          Guest

          No, you are only playing an immersive sim, dying is virtual, you

        • #460663
          Anonymous
          Guest

          Yes. A good friend of mine died playing Thief. Fucking Hammerites.

          • #460665
            Anonymous
            Guest

            may the builder rest his soul

        • #460682
          Anonymous
          Guest

          Yes. Can confirm. I died in Deus Ex and then died for real.

          • #460683
            Anonymous
            Guest

            How are you messaging if you are dead?

            • #460684
              Anonymous
              Guest

              I quicksaved before I died.

              • #460685
                Anonymous
                Guest

                based circumventor

              • #460687
                Anonymous
                Guest

                Hope you don’t try that irl

    • #460660
      Anonymous
      Guest

      A retarded name

      • #460705
        Anonymous
        Guest

        >0… 4… 5… 1…
        >*beep!*
        >YAAASSS!!!

      • #460707
        Anonymous
        Guest

        SOME BITCHES

    • #460664
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Bioshock was like any other linear story shooter from that 00’s era. I’ve been seeing a resurgence of that in the last few years from indie/bedroom and AA devs. Most recently as of this month, Industria. Immersive sim is also a stupid name for a genre.

    • #460666
      Anonymous
      Guest

      It’s tiem for a new shock?

      • #460667
        Anonymous
        Guest

        theres no money in it. deathloop is how the genre dies.

        • #460668
          Anonymous
          Guest

          You now remember Underworld Ascendant exists

          • #460671
            Anonymous
            Guest

            >exists
            thats an awfully strong word

            • #460673
              Anonymous
              Guest

              Well, at least I didn’t say it was finished.

          • #460709
            Anonymous
            Guest
            • #460712
              Anonymous
              Guest

              the hell?

        • #460669
          Anonymous
          Guest

          i really hope arkane tries to make another game like prey, deathloop seems a bit simplified compared to their past games

        • #460670
          Anonymous
          Guest
    • #460672
      Anonymous
      Guest

      a first person shooter that’s bad with bad guns

      • #460674
        Anonymous
        Guest

        Ah yes, Thief: The Dark Project, one of my favorite shooters. Shame the guns are a bit weak

        • #460679
          Anonymous
          Guest

          bad guns yes

        • #460680
          Anonymous
          Guest

          well 2 does have robot cannons so there

    • #460675
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Why do you need rpg building in an ‘imsim’ anyway? Never cared about it, its more like an adventure of the surroundings.

      • #460676
        Anonymous
        Guest

        Well it’s worth noting that Looking Glass, who came up with the whole concept with Ultima Underworld, dropped all the traditional crpg shit when they made System Shock and Thief. It’s the devs that came after them that put all the rpg shit back in.

      • #460677
        Anonymous
        Guest

        don’t think an imsim needs to be an rpg, I mean look at the thief games, zero roleplaying or stat building and it is still regarded as quintessential imsims. As long as you can creatively explore your surroundings and accomplish your objectives it’s an imsim

        • #460678
          Anonymous
          Guest

          You could try reading the actual original definition:

          I mean here’s the actual definition you wankers, from Looking Glass themselves. Bioshock ain’t one.

    • #460681
      Anonymous
      Guest

      More shooting then? Call of duty blends terrible with stealth. There is much effort in cinematics though

    • #460686
      Anonymous
      Guest

      as the name suggests, the game gets so deep you forget you’re even playing a game and witnessing and participating in world events.

      Only Deus Ex did that for me, the rest were fun games but didn’t immerse me as much. Bioshock 2 was a bit more immersive because the politics have been dealt with and you’re just going through life underwater

    • #460688
      Anonymous
      Guest

      I am not entirely sure, all I know is that they tend to be the greatest games of all time.
      They allow the player to really express themselves and play their way.

      • #460689
        Anonymous
        Guest

        Someone literally posted the definition already:

        I mean here’s the actual definition you wankers, from Looking Glass themselves. Bioshock ain’t one.

        • #460692
          Anonymous
          Guest

          games that have open ended solutions and multiple ways for players to express themselves. thats all it really is. Using the computer generated simulation to its natural advantages instead of sticking strictly to tabletop mechanics.

        • #460694
          Anonymous
          Guest

          >posts a fucking article
          >definition is literally posted

          • #460695
            Anonymous
            Guest

            Here’s the short version:

            And for those of you who can’t be bothered reading here’s the short version

            • #460700
              Anonymous
              Guest

              That’s not short

              • #460702
                Anonymous
                Guest

                based adhd sufferer

    • #460690
      Anonymous
      Guest

      >What the fuck is an immersive sim?
      Meme term parroted by bandwagoners.

      • #460691
        Anonymous
        Guest

        zoom zoom

        • #460736
          Anonymous
          Guest

          And the counterargument: more parroted memes. Good job.

    • #460693
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Are bethesda games immersive sim?

      • #460696
        Anonymous
        Guest

        they are in a way of solving a linear set of quests. You can choose high telekenisis skill or get high sneak, but it lacks the narrative choice.

      • #460699
        Anonymous
        Guest

        nah, the choices you get are strictly narrative choices, in a dungeon you pretty much always proceed through it how the devs intended. Locked door? If you cant lockpick it you are out of luck. See an area that might look out of reach? You’re probably not even alowed there. While in games like deus ex you might blow the door up, break a nearby window etc, or in prey just gloo gun you’re way up to the out of reach area.

    • #460697
      Anonymous
      Guest

      a genre somehow even more poorly defined than action RPG

    • #460703
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Something a guy made a video about now vzoomers repeat it

      • #460704
        Anonymous
        Guest

        post it

    • #460706
      Anonymous
      Guest

      A genre that has never had a truly great or even finished game in it.

      • #460708
        Anonymous
        Guest

        Example?

        • #460711
          Anonymous
          Guest

          Do you want me to name every single immersive sim or something?

          • #460714
            Anonymous
            Guest

            Just one

            • #460717
              Anonymous
              Guest

              Well Thief and Deus Ex are the obvious examples, Prey for something more modern, this genre is cursed to have rushed dev times and budget constraints for some reason.

              • #460719
                Anonymous
                Guest

                >Thief was unfished and not great
                Absolutely shit taste. Get off my board faggot

                • #460721
                  Anonymous
                  Guest

                  All three games have been praised on the internet up and down.

                  I mean ‘truly great’ as in ‘the best they can possibly be accoridng to the devs’ original vision’. These games were rushed towards the end of development due to the reasons I listed.

                  • #460722
                    Anonymous
                    Guest

                    No. That was Thief 2. Thief: The Dark Project wasn’t rushed. What the fuck are you on about anon? You’re just fucking wrong.

                  • #460725
                    Anonymous
                    Guest

                    It all comes down to your personal game pleasure in the end, they want to listen, I’m sure of it

                    • #460727
                      Anonymous
                      Guest

                      >It all comes down to your personal game pleasure in the end
                      Is my fleshlight an immersive sim?

                      • #460729
                        Anonymous
                        Guest

                        Yea, I wish I had one

                      • #460732
                        Anonymous
                        Guest

                        If it was made by Looking Glass? Sure.

                  • #460726
                    Anonymous
                    Guest

                    I like the idea of an beginning and and an end. When you have closure and it was great

              • #460720
                Anonymous
                Guest

                All three games have been praised on the internet up and down.

              • #460723
                Anonymous
                Guest

                This will seem like cope, but unfinished games can be and have been great. Nearly every game in existence has cut content (even if you don’t know about it) and many release unpolished but still achieve what they set to.

                Dark Souls (not saying that it’s an imsim) will be praised forever and after even though Izalith is in it.
                Deus Ex is buggy and flawed yet it’s still open ended, fun to play and has a great story and world.
                The original System Shock existed in an era before standarized controls for first person games yet it still has great level design, story and action. highly enjoyable once you get used to it.

                No game ever comes out as their creators intended to or with all the content they wished to have but that’s how games are made.

                • #460737
                  Anonymous
                  Guest

                  >Deus Ex is buggy and flawed
                  In what way? I can’t remember any bugs not fixed by official patches and the only flaw I can think of is some items and augs are worse than others, as they would be in real life as well

                  • #460740
                    Anonymous
                    Guest

                    The AI is messy,
                    >when blowing up a door with an explosive there is a 50/50 chance NPCs will get upset
                    >npcs will block doorways
                    >rockets are considered stealthy
                    >snipers insta-kill you (can’t even hear their gun when they shoot)

                    And then there is a few weird balancing and flaws I can think of
                    >tranq darts are very inconsistent
                    >pepper spray is very inconsistent
                    >escaping Paul’s apartment through the window considers Paul died, even if you cleared the whole building of Unatco soldiers
                    >lockpick and multitool pause exploit
                    >Dragon’s Tooth nosedives the difficulty of the game

                    And these are just a few things I can think of. They are not a big deal to enjoy the game but these flaws are present nonetheless

    • #460710
      Anonymous
      Guest

      It kinda weirds me out how many normies like Bioshock – cus it’s definitely not good as a pure FPS either. It’s one of those hitscan shooters where you rhythmically tap the heal button to soak up damage in every firefight. The plasmids don’t really allow for much fun dynamic combat. 2 improved on this in some regard with cleverer level design but it’s still too thin as an IS and too flimsy as a shooter.

      Also the story isn’t smart, if you think so your brain hasn’t developed past 16

      • #460715
        Anonymous
        Guest

        normies like the story because they can spout ayn rand ideologies without having read her book and appear smart

      • #460718
        Anonymous
        Guest

        >Also the story isn’t smart, if you think so your brain hasn’t developed past 16
        I think most Bioshock fans were about that age when they played the first game, and the game does feel clever for someone that age. As for the gameplay, I think the shotgun probably helped the game to gain popularity with people who don’t usually play FPS. I know I rarely played FPS when I was younger, and when I did I couldn’t hit anything, but Bioshock was incredibly easy to hit what I was aiming at.

    • #460713
      Anonymous
      Guest

      unless you seriously cant find a commonality between these games (excluding bioshock, thats just a lame shooter), you already have your answer, even if you can not put it into words.

      • #460716
        Anonymous
        Guest

        They’re practically all made by Looking Glass Studios or ex-LGS devs? How’s Flight Unlimited not one then?

    • #460724
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Not Bioshock that’s for sure.

    • #460728
      Anonymous
      Guest
      • #460731
        Anonymous
        Guest

        comfy

    • #460730
      Anonymous
      Guest

      a first person game where you can choose to either pick a lock on a door or go through a vent to bypass the door

    • #460733
      Anonymous
      Guest

      One word
      >Kingdom Come Deliverance

    • #460735
      Anonymous
      Guest

      It’s what happens when a game focuses on an experience, rather than a particular archetype of game. As such they tend to blend genres, and provide different types of interaction with every aspect of the environment.

      If you need to escape a spaceship attacked by aliens, a FPS would have you shoot through it, an adventure game would offer puzzles, a stealth game would provide ledges and dark areas… and an immersive sim would simply design a spaceship, and the systems to do all of that.

      It’s not that hard.

    • #460738
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Why haven’t you played Ultima Underworld anon?

      • #460739
        Anonymous
        Guest

        i hear it doesn’t even have mouselook. no thank you

      • #460743
        Anonymous
        Guest

        It’s not on steam and yes I’m a faggot

        • #460746
          Anonymous
          Guest

          It’s so fucking old you can play it in your browser anon:
          https://archive.org/details/msdos_Ultima_Underworld_-_The_Stygian_Abyss_1992

          • #460750
            Anonymous
            Guest

            You misunderstood, I’m a faggot because I won’t play it until it’s on Steam. Shame because I like underground settings, just about done on my Avernum playthrough.

            • #460751
              Anonymous
              Guest

              >You misunderstood, I’m a faggot
              At least you’re honest

      • #460748
        Anonymous
        Guest

        But I have.

    • #460741
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Is MGSV an immersive sim?

    • #460745
      Anonymous
      Guest

      A buzzword.

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