Why did general audiences hate these two games so strongly?

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    • #475222
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Why did general audiences hate these two games so strongly?

    • #475224
      Anonymous
      Guest

      >inferior product nets inferior results
      Whatโ€™s the question?

      • #475229
        Anonymous
        Guest

        But both games massively improve over their predecessors.

        • #475233
          Anonymous
          Guest

          Based and true
          TLOU2 may be bad but TLOU1 was worse

        • #475268
          Anonymous
          Guest

          Based and true
          TLOU2 may be bad but TLOU1 was worse

          they are inferior in a sense that they delivered a lesser experience on what people actually liked about these games.
          TLOU2 is better gameplay wise but people only cared about the franchise because of the story and the second game fucked that up.
          In HM case the first game had small rooms that you could go on a killing spree at your hearts content, basically a power trip, hm2 though it would be cool to have open fields and enemies being able to notice you from ranges you can’t see even after zooming in and a few other things. it is a collection of dlcs put together and it shows.

          • #475270
            Anonymous
            Guest

            >LOU2 is. Enter gameplay wise
            You mean all three hours of it that’s not walking and talking?
            2 hours if your good at the combat sections according to speed runners

          • #475277
            Anonymous
            Guest

            >filtered by HM2 level design
            Every time.
            My only complaint was that it’s not as replayable, but it was longer and hard mode was good too.
            Both games work together though, I don’t see any reason to separate them.

            • #475289
              Anonymous
              Guest

              >Sequel fundamentally fucks up what was good about the first game
              >"Filtered"
              Every time.

              • #475291
                Anonymous
                Guest

                Here’s your level design bro

                • #475292
                  Anonymous
                  Guest

                  I’ll take that over being shot off-screen in the mall over and over again until I autistically learned the placement of enemies I couldn’t even see.

                  • #475293
                    Anonymous
                    Guest

                    >over and over again
                    It’s not the game’s fault that you’re retarded

                    • #475294
                      Anonymous
                      Guest

                      >Getting shot off screen by shit you can’t react to without pre-knowledge is good game design

                      • #475295
                        Anonymous
                        Guest

                        Yes

                      • #475302
                        Anonymous
                        Guest

                        yeah because it happens 1-3 times and then you learn to adapt to the situation you actual retard lmao
                        did you not learn problem solving or spatial awareness skills when you were a kid?

    • #475225
      Anonymous
      Guest

      What’s the point in making these threads when you can just read what people have already said?

      • #475234
        Anonymous
        Guest

        I’ve barely seen anyone draw comparison between these two controversial sequels that subvert audience expectations while being hyperviolent murder sprees.

    • #475226
      Anonymous
      Guest

      HM2 had a better soundtrack than the first one

      • #475288
        Anonymous
        Guest

        Terrible taste

      • #475309
        Anonymous
        Guest

        Hotline 1’s soundtrack was may more cohesive than 2’s which was basically just a greatest synthwave hits album

        • #475311
          Anonymous
          Guest

          BEEP BOOP BOOP BAP BEEP BOOOB BEEB BOOB BAB BAB

      • #475328
        Anonymous
        Guest

        True and based

    • #475228
      Anonymous
      Guest

      >general audiences
      only Ganker

    • #475231
      Anonymous
      Guest

      TLoU2 was actual dogshit which tried to do the whole LE SUBVERT EXPECTATIONS incredibly poorly and HLM2 was an amazing game with shitty sections which did LE SUBVERT EXPECTATIONS with actual class, it saw the flaws of the first game narratively/gameplay wise and switched it up enough to actually be engaging and memorable, it wasn’t just changing shit or doing dumb narrative bullshit for the sake of WOW BETCHA DIDN’T EXPECT THAT ONE EHHHH CHIEF???

      • #475254
        Anonymous
        Guest

        Take your meds schizo.

        • #475255
          Anonymous
          Guest

          >I have no argument and am absolutely upset by what was said
          >better cry like a fag
          lmao pathetic

          • #475257
            Anonymous
            Guest

            tlou1’s trash, cope

            • #475260
              Anonymous
              Guest

              agreed, and 2 is embarrassingly bad compared to that, how the fuck did you possibly get ANY indication of me saying otherwise you fucking retard

              • #475266
                Anonymous
                Guest

                2 was better, just skip cutscenes and turn off sound

                • #475267
                  Anonymous
                  Guest

                  even as far as movie games go it still wasn’t "better" you’re fucking delusional
                  also the sound design is one of the only highlights of TLoU series next to the graphics

                • #475271
                  Anonymous
                  Guest

                  >just skip cutscenes
                  You’d still have to deal with the walky talky sections though, which is half the game.

                • #475287
                  Anonymous
                  Guest

                  >Skip cutscene
                  >almost 2 minutes of loading
                  >Turn off sound
                  >Still have to slowly walk while the characters chat about random shit I don’t care about
                  It’s still shit

    • #475236
      Anonymous
      Guest

      >general audiences
      Funny because "general audiences" bought millions and millions of copies of TLOU2

      • #475237
        Anonymous
        Guest

        Show those sales numbers, if not it still has sold 4 million copies

        • #475259
          Anonymous
          Guest

          So like i said, millions of copies then

    • #475239
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Pretentiousness.

    • #475242
      Anonymous
      Guest

      TLOU2 pulled an MGS2 and had similar results. People wanted a new adventure with the old characters they liked. Not a new game with the creators totally awesome perfect new character. HM2 was great, but people had issues with the fact you could get sniped from off screen on almost every map.

    • #475243
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Because they’re shit.

    • #475244
      Anonymous
      Guest

      HLM2 is better than the first in every way Tbh

    • #475246
      Anonymous
      Guest

      >rape is… LE BAD

    • #475248
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Because the shitch has no games

    • #475249
      Anonymous
      Guest

      One is a movie with shit gameplay, the other have good gameplay downed by bad game designs choices (like offscreen snipers). Very good soundtrack, love roller mobster.

    • #475251
      Anonymous
      Guest

      People hate HM2? Why tho

      • #475262
        Anonymous
        Guest

        Some people just didn’t like how the story went

      • #475324
        Anonymous
        Guest

        Maybe I talked in an echo chamber but I never knew of people disliking HM2 until the last month or so.

    • #475252
      Anonymous
      Guest

      I don’t know, but Hotline Miami 2 is severely underrated

    • #475263
      Anonymous
      Guest

      >Hotline Miami 2
      Was it really hated? I personally loved it.

    • #475265
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Hotline Miami 2s levels were incredibly long each one was about 30mins, especially towards the end.

      This ruined the pick up and play nature of the game and also took away risky behaviour because the checkpoints were further away.

      The Last of Us 2 was pretty much a copy of Last of Us 1 but they focused way to hard on the lesbein story, looked good though

    • #475269
      Anonymous
      Guest

      lots of people like HLM2, its just not as consistent as the first

    • #475272
      Anonymous
      Guest

      I think LoU2 triggered a shift to move on from movie games. There will be plenty of attempted movie game later on, but the clamoring for them has already peaked and other trends will come along.

      • #475273
        Anonymous
        Guest

        >There will be plenty of attempted movie game later on
        mainly from a certain company which leads the market sadly, then retard philly spence will try and keep pace which will just lead to absolute dogshit games while nintendo pumps out the most low effort shit out there ever 1/4 of a year

      • #475297
        Anonymous
        Guest

        I hope you’re right, I think it will be most telling what Naughty Dog’s next project will be after Factions 2. I’m just hoping that Druckmann fucks off out of the industry after the HBO show.

    • #475274
      Anonymous
      Guest

      People hated Hotline Miami 2 because the level design is way worse and filled with open areas where the CPU can easily see and kill you. This led to a ton of bullshit offscreen deaths and making the player feel less like a quick and dirty killer but a scared little man hiding around corners trying to kite people out.

      People hate The Last of Us 2 because they watched the cutscene where Joel dies and never got over that initial hurdle. The game is an improvement on The Last of Us 1 in literally every department except for the story, and 2’s story is only worse because it’s way less concise.

      • #475276
        Anonymous
        Guest

        >People hated Hotline Miami 2
        *Tony twinks hated Hotline Miami 2

      • #475278
        Anonymous
        Guest

        >This led to a ton of bullshit offscreen deaths and making the player feel less like a quick and dirty killer but a scared little man hiding around corners trying to kite people out.
        uhhh DUDE it’s LUDONARRATIVE METAPHOR to… uhhhh…

      • #475283
        Anonymous
        Guest

        >2’s story is only worse because it’s way less concise.
        That’s an understatement, it was a bloated mess that overstayed its welcome.

    • #475275
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Was it ever explained how Abby in the TLOU2 was so buff? Like was it confirmed she was a tranny or on hormones or what?

    • #475279
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Both games were extremely unpleasant deconstructions of themselves. People don’t like that, see: The Last Jedi. It really is that simple. However, unlike The Last Jedi, TLOU2 and HM2 actually have redeeming qualities.

      • #475298
        Anonymous
        Guest

        >Both games were extremely unpleasant deconstructions of themselves.
        yes
        >People don’t like that, see: The Last Jedi
        yes
        >However, unlike The Last Jedi, TLOU2 and HM2 actually have redeeming qualities.
        and only one of them is good.

        • #475299
          Anonymous
          Guest

          Yeah, Hotline Miami 2. TLOU2 actually has fine "gameplay" but there’s only a couple of hours of it in total throughout the 20+ hour experience.

    • #475281
      Anonymous
      Guest

      HM2 is much harder than HM1 and much more dependent on guns. It feels like half the time you die in HM2, you got shot through a window you weren’t paying attention to, and often times it’s from enemies that weren’t even on screen. I’ll admit I thought this was bullshit on my first playthrough but since getting good, the game has been addictive to me and I find HM1 painfully simplistic in comparison. Also people complained that HM2 somehow ruined HM1’s oh so mysterious atmosphere by explaining everything but HM1’s story just feels half done without the context HM2 provides.

    • #475284
      Anonymous
      Guest

      >TLOU2
      >Revenge bad! Are you sad yet! We don’t use the word fun! Take our movie game seriously!!!
      >HM2
      >Revenge bad but damn is it fun. Here, have a flamethrower.

    • #475286
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Hotline Miami 2 had multiple levels where it felt like you were compelled to use a gun or you’d just get off-screen shot down by enemies.

      HL1 was very close quarters, all about chaining melee attacks, finishers and throwing weapons in quick succession, with guns often being rare bonus items. This felt way more satisfying to play.

      • #475301
        Anonymous
        Guest

        >tony using beta male detected
        you’re an absolute pussy, stop kidding yourself

    • #475290
      Anonymous
      Guest

      rooms were too big in hotline miami 2. dont mind it being harder but being shot off screen just isnt fun man

    • #475296
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Hotline Miami is one of the current peaks of narrative achievement in vidya and uses it’s level design, pacing of said levels, a kaleidoscopic lens of characters murdering across decades to build and expand it’s narrative to end up at what is the only conclusion that is possible between the constant escalation of violence.

      TLOU is a movie that uses it’s level design to give a chest high wall shoot out sometimes, it uses it’s non-linear timeline for "oh what innocence our leads have lost", it’s multiple characters is interesting but neither of them killing the other is insane and makes all the prior murder completely fucking pointless. One might say that was the point but Abby’s existence implies any random npc could have a family member go on a revenge quest for them and Ellie did murder hundreds of people for nothing. She doesn’t even have a self defence, kill or be killed defence of her actions like Joel, Ellie just walked into a warzone for a conflict she had no connection too, started in discriminately murdering, and spent the game wondering why she was sad.

      Hotline Miami is one of the the best vidya storytelling up to this point as it uses what makes the medium unique, TLOU is a shit movie.

    • #475300
      Anonymous
      Guest

      can’t speak for shitty movie game, but HM2 had a worse campaign than 1 and didn’t launch with the level editor to compensate. I think if people could have done custom levels from the start, the shitty campaign would have gotten more of a pass. look at ass games like Skyrim where people don’t even care about the have itself because all they do is mod the engine to do dumb shit.

    • #475303
      Anonymous
      Guest

      Never played TLOU2. HM2 is a game that looks and feels like a fuck you from the devs to the fans.

      • #475305
        Anonymous
        Guest

        if you’re actually a fan and not a faggot secondary then it actually feels like a love letter outside of the whole off screen window shooting bullshit
        thanks for outing yourself

        • #475306
          Anonymous
          Guest

          The game literally ends in an drug-crazed trip where you kill the trippy manifestations of fans (and fan expectations). It’s based.

          • #475313
            Anonymous
            Guest

            ‘fan expectations’ died in Act 3, as for the reprise of "killing fans" in the finale I’m still unsure what to take from it. I always took that level as a tongue in cheek but nightmarish take on the sentiment:
            >whoa hotline miami is just murder and drugs
            and making it literal.

            >it actually feels like a love letter
            Elaborate

            not him but HM2 delivers not just "more of the thing you like" via The Fans, but also expands Hotline Miami in various interesting narrative and gameplay styles before ending perfectly.
            t. liked the hawaii levels.

            • #475316
              Anonymous
              Guest

              >expands Hotline Miami in various interesting narrative and gameplay styles
              I did like how each character had a different play style. I didn’t enjoy all of them, but it did shake things up.

        • #475307
          Anonymous
          Guest

          >it actually feels like a love letter
          Elaborate

      • #475308
        Anonymous
        Guest

        >HM2 is a game that looks and feels like a fuck you from the devs to the fans.
        Why do people here always say this like this? Hell why does this sentiment exist for a lot of popular media on this site? If a "fuck you fans!!" looks like End of Eva and Hotline Miami 2, according to Ganker that is, I hope more creators tell fans to fuck off.

        • #475314
          Anonymous
          Guest

          >Why do people here always say this like this?
          Because the devs said they didn’t want to do a sequel, but fans kept pressuring them into doing it, so they added an overly complex story and many shitty combat situations and literally blew everything up so they’d never have to make another one after it.

          • #475320
            Anonymous
            Guest

            >Because the devs said they didn’t want to do a sequel, but fans kept pressuring them into doing it
            they themselves started work on the DLC which became HM2 immediately after HM1.
            >so they added an overly complex story
            Devs said themselves they knew the Beard/Jacket relationship while making HM1 and I believe I saw pre-HM1 art of Alex
            >many shitty combat situations
            either you can’t change playstyle or you got filtered.
            >and literally blew everything up so they’d never have to make another one after it.
            and it was fucking based, Trilogies are overrated. HM2 did everything the series could have done.

            • #475325
              Anonymous
              Guest

              >Trilogies are overrated.
              Never asked for a trilogy. In fact, if Hotline Miami was one and done, it would have been perfectly fine. Sequels are overrated.

      • #475310
        Anonymous
        Guest

        Dude what? HLM2 takes everything that made HLM1 good and cranks it up to 11. The first game feels like a fucking tutorial in comparison.

        Don’t tell me you actually got filtered because you have the spatial awareness of a potato? Just utilize your peek and understand basic concepts like long lines of sight and object permanence. That’s literally all you need to not get filtered.

        • #475312
          Anonymous
          Guest

          To be fair, one issue with HM2’s (and the first game to a lesser degree) presentation is that telling which objects you can shoot through can sometimes prove problematic. As in, you can shoot through/over cars but not trucks. It’s messy.

          • #475315
            Anonymous
            Guest

            >As in, you can shoot through/over cars but not trucks. It’s messy.
            That… makes sense though…. Even if you wouldn’t know how the game would approach something like that, it literally just takes one death (at most) to find out..

            • #475319
              Anonymous
              Guest

              That’s just a clear example. Sometimes things that look like tables aren’t, and others it’s hard to tell in the middle of combat. It just takes a death to learn, sure, but it’s still a flaw that requires memorization to get used to regardless.
              Though a lot of HM2 levels really play on the whole rote memorization side of things. I don’t mind it, but I can see how the actual thought process would bother people that enjoyed the first.
              There’s a reason why a lot of people hate the Hawaii levels, even though I think that’s HM at its peak.

        • #475317
          Anonymous
          Guest

          >filtered
          I still beat the game, unless the definition of filtered has changed.

          • #475318
            Anonymous
            Guest

            Unless you beat it on Hard and got S-ranks then no, you didn’t beat it

            • #475321
              Anonymous
              Guest

              Why is this the requirement?

              • #475327
                Anonymous
                Guest

                It’s like credit feeding through a shmup on the easiest settings and saying you beat it.

                • #475329
                  Anonymous
                  Guest

                  What if I’ve never cared for shmups? Why is Normal difficulty so villified?

    • #475304
      Anonymous
      Guest

      people who got filtered by HM2’s gameplay are subhumans and not worth talking to.

    • #475322
      Anonymous
      Guest

      I played the entirety of 1 and 2 up to stronghold without knowing you could look forward. People who complain about muh unseen enemies are kidding themselves.

    • #475323
      Anonymous
      Guest

      HM2 is pure shit.

      One of the greatest appeals of HM1 is the juxtaposition of the omniscience you have as a player against the brutal difficulty of the game. You have perfect information – you can see everything that goes on in the building from a bird’s eye view. To even the odds, you’re up against a ton of guys who are all better equipped and can 1-shot you. The challenge is to figure out and execute the perfect plan that lets you kill everything safely without being harmed. You can choose your route through a building, decide which doors to slam through, and if you fuck up and die it’s your own fault for making a bad plan when you have perfect information.

      In HM2, you’re still against an army of guys who can 1 shot you, but you no longer have the benefit of perfect information. Instead of skulking through cramped buildings and being able to set the pace based on the order of rooms you go through, you instead have to travel through open areas while snipers fire at you from offscreen. The only way to find out what tactics will get you killed is now trial & error. You can’t come up with a plan and refine it anymore, your only option is to throw shit at the wall and see what sticks. The game fundamentally misunderstands what made the first one good.

    • #475326
      Anonymous
      Guest

      TLOU 2 was flatout better than TLOU unless you were filtered by the story

      HM2 was flatout better than the first one, full stop

    • #475330
      Anonymous
      Guest

      cant speak for HLM, but for TLoU2 it was

      1) They killed big zaddy Joel
      2) unconventionally attractive female lead
      3) making gamers see things from another perspective

    • #475331
      Anonymous
      Guest

      I don’t understand people who complain about Hotline Miami 2’s levels, most of the game is more HM1.

      Act 1 was wall to wall HM1 level design with only Pardo’s level breaking away with larger sightlines because he literally starting shooting up a 7/11
      Act 2 is similar but has Evan as a pace and thematic changer that slows down the pace to force you into a slightly more deliberate playstyle that matches his character or (you) can choose give up on that, and The Henchman as glass canon among glass canons since the russian mafia is in a delicate position post HM1.
      Act 3 has the first war level which is another new playstyle but matches the setting of being in a warzone, Pardo’s 2nd level is another case of him shooting up a place with little thought, both fans levels here are great (except the Bear’s floor in Death Wish imo)
      Act 4 is 2 war levels, 1 Evan level, 1 Jake level. So two ‘normal’ levels if you want.
      Act 5 is fantastic the whole way through.
      Act 6 + Apocalypse is closer to HM1 except Son uses more guns since he is the head of a mafia, of course he has more guns available too him.

      >3 war levels that change your playstyle or "break pace"
      >2 Pardo levels where he shoots up in a bad spot, only 1 of which being hard. Pardo’s 3rd level is great.
      >Evan’s levels you can play like HM1 if you really want too.

      Seems to me people just got filtered by the game being harder, the only levels I remember have difficulty with windows was all 3 war levels, Pardo level 2, and Death Wish Bear.

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