Deus Ex

Was Tracer Tong right? All of the world's communications being governed by Area 51 is just a disaster and needed to be destroyed. The game is a little over dramatic, humanity would quickly recover back to its current state and implement the tech, not revert to villages. Airplanes and helicopters still exist etc etc

Or was he dreaming of dominating Hong Kong with his mafia for the rest of his life with no overbearing governmental thread.

  1. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Tracer Tong is re-treading well-worn anarchist errors. To be read in the Star Wars meme format
    >We should burn down everything!
    >>So what remains will be a more thriving society, right?

    >...
    >>...So what remains will be a more thriving society, right...?
    The truth is he has no plan, and he has no clue how network access loss will change the world: he just hates the status quo so much that fuck the consequences, he just wants to flip the table. If it works out to be a better world, that's just a bonus, not his actual intent.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >The truth is he has no plan
      Exactly. He wants the internet dead. I don't get how starting something like the internet from scratch would create a better one.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Because it will very likely just end up the same?

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Yeah.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Not really, it would be even worse because big companies would know its potential from the start. There would be no tech freedom/innocence stage of internet, just greater corporate control. The idea that it could come back the same is if anything wildly optimistic.

          That's the problem with plans that shoot for reducing something to chaos in hopes of restoring power to 'the people': the powerful exploit chaos with massively more ease than the people. In a collapse of any kind, strong organizations with influence, resources and manpower make GAINS, not losses. If you cut the government off the United States right now you'd have The Amazon and Pepsico States in a year.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            You had me until the last sentence now you seem like a child

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              Well he's right in the sense that big corporations would probably look very different if they were not founded in the institutional setting of powerful states and state bureaucracies. Public institutions and legislation have inertia and are slow to change and path dependency also plays a big part in how and why the modern world has shaped up to be what it is currently.

              Then again even in a complete power vacuum it is naive to assume that a modern private corporations, let alone big multinational corporations, would be interested in handling functions that are traditionally viewed as public services: schools, hospitals, care of the elderly, building and maintaining roads and other public utilities. Surely corporations as hierarchical organisations have better capabilities to assume those roles than, say, a random band of revolutionary individuals, but maybe that would apply even more so to security organisations such as the military, national guard and police forces.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                No its a fucking childish fantasy. In complete collapse Pepsi and Amazon have zero power and zero employees.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        The line of thinking is that backing away from the edge and resetting while being aware of the previous pitfalls would result in something healthier, and not having a set in stone plan for afterwards is part of the entire point. You want the people to decide what they need and to do so unfettered from any existing global plot while being more capable of preventing a new one to arise. It's just that that's a bit too idealist, especially since the global population isn't gonna be immediately capable to resist conspiracy and it's not like the active conspirators and warlords are gonna stop just because their dial-up isn't actively working. That was a good point in Invisible War: the Collapse needed Helios to help guide the pieces back into place afterwards by wrangling all rogue variables, and without it, shit went back to the same squabbling anyways.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Try wording that less like a gay

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Tracer tong be like
        >HULK HATE MODERN SOCIETY!
        >HULK SMASH!
        There ain't no post-smash plan. Hulk don't care.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          What does that have to do with western society? Tong was a global thinker and never once singled out the "west"

          JC merges with Helios AND destroys the network in the invisible war canon. Pretty sure anyways.

          why would he merge with Helios after destroying the network? wouldnt that make it completely useless and braindead?

          This game is retarded and it's for morons.
          I said it.

          Why?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >why would he merge with Helios after destroying the network? wouldnt that make it completely useless and braindead?

            Correct. Truth is, Deus Ex is a complete story and it should have remained open eneded. I think the real sequel idea should have been to take the general idea of conspiracies and end world but do new settings and games. You play as a rookie UNATCO agent in different settings investigating some conspiracy.

            >Deus Ex 2: Virtual Reality - hackers who fight crime via VR
            >Deus Ex: ALIENS - big government conspiracies about aliens are recovered
            >Deus Ex: Evil corporations - dudes trying to clone the president and hijack government

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              I've thought the same myself. I've been in favor of more games adopting the anthology mindset for a while, with or without different timelines altogether, and Deus Ex especially stuck out to me due to how the Jensen Era feels a bit hobbled by trying to retroactively fit/lead into the Denton Era. Personally--to start pointing at random examples--I do like how System Shock managed to be a pretty detached sequel, and any further games could've done a lot with just the setting in a SHODAN-less manner.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >why would he merge with Helios after destroying the network?
            I think he didn't destroy the network intentionally: there was an error when he merged with Helios and it destroyed the Area 51 communications, putting JC into a coma.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Everything he posted is right though. You just revealed your own mental deficit.

        Seriously, did you think YOUR post would make you look intelligent?

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          My posts are more intelligent than both of yours combined. He was completely wrong it wouldn't be anything like burning it all down, most tech would still be around and functional.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >Try wording that less like a gay
            >NO ACTUALLY I'M REALLY SMART I SWARE
            >EVEN THOUGH I'VE LITERALLY SAID NOTHING AAARGH I'M INTELLIGENT
            lmao

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              mald more star wars fag

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                ahahaha keep spiralling into that meltdown lmao
                it's gotta hurt that you've never had anything intelligent to say in a thread but you WISH you did, huh?

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Transexual projection, dial8

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                meds. now.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous
      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Try being less of a gay

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      The star wars meme is that Anakin has nefarious motivations that are inferred to the reader but fly over Padme's head.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      I dont think you realize how much damage shutting down global communications would cause. The internet relies soo much on Amazon web services, that if it went down, it would literally mean the end of the internet. Communication for trucking would be deemed impossible. No one would get their shipment. Society would collapse at such a fast rate that the only solution would be to go back to villiages and go back to communities that are close nit. Literally would be like a modern day tower of babel.

  2. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Whilst I kinda agree with his ideals and like his optimism, I think he is horribly naïve. Destroying global communication would only make the ordinary people even easier to conquer, as without the means to communicate they wouldn't be able to form any effective resistance to any new superpower that would form in the power vacuum. The tech that led to the Deus Ex didn't go anywhere, the banking institutions and Illuminati wouldn't go anywhere, and they would be able to re-consolidate power by using their resources to offer people stability during a global crisis.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Everything would be quickly rebuilt. and not be centralized in area 51 being maniacally controlled.
      International transportation is extremely advanced and never went anywhere.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        So you'd cause mass suffering and death on the chance that the result after the chaos might be a TINY, marginal bit better, in some vague unquantifiable way. Congratulations, you're just like any other leftist anarchist without an education.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          I'm guessing you went with the Illuminati at the end of the game.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            It's the most boring, but the most likely to have the best outcome for the average person. The Illuminati were not that strong, and stayed in the background. The whole fake pandemic was Page hijacking the illuminati's systems and making a big powerplay. With page dead, things can go back to normal and they can go back to their original goal of slowly guiding humanity.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >Tong
          >leftist

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >without the means to communicate they wouldn't be able to form any effective resistance
      You mean the means of communication run and monitored by the powers that be? That's not an effective way to a organise resistance anon..

  3. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >what would the consequences be?!
    It's called Deus Ex Invisible War you retards

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      JC merges with Helios AND destroys the network in the invisible war canon. Pretty sure anyways.

  4. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    This game is retarded and it's for morons.
    I said it.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >This game is retarded

      Deus Ex is set in 2052.
      We have 30 years to go and every technologically feasible prediction it made is already functionally true. I think we're going going to continue to be shocked by how true to reality Deus Ex turned out to be.

      Odds are good that this game is only gonna feel more prescient every passing year.

      Pretty fucking impressive for 2000 videogame bankrolled by John Romero.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        The purpose of a game is not to make accurate predictions, "functionally" or otherwise. That's not even the purpose of a story.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Are you retarded? Where did he say it did? He's pointing out that it will stay relevant for years to come, while you mouth breath

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >Deus Ex is set in 2052.
        >We have 30 years to go and every technologically feasible prediction it made is already functionally true.
        Deus Ex got a lot of predictions right. Except for the "China wants to take men to the dark ages" part. Instead they are the new players taking control over technology.
        >China sends 'world's first 6G' test satellite into orbit
        >Chinese scientists hail ‘important step’ towards nuclear fusion from ‘artificial sun’
        >China's $1 trillion 'artificial sun' fusion reactor just got five times hotter than the sun
        This is how they are doing now. Now imagine a real china years from now being depicted. China was a shithole when the game was made. No one had any idea how it would turn out today.
        >China is the last sovereign country in the world.
        That part is turning into a real prediction at least. But not by having the most stupid idea of burning all the high tech they have that would ensure their power.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >Except for the "China wants to take men to the dark ages" part.
          Dude what? The game suggests the complete opposite and is basically verbatim what a contemporary state-capitalist PRC vs neoliberal West argument looks like today.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            In the pic he goes
            >China is the last sovereign country in world. Authoritarian but willing -- unlike U.N. governed countries
            Right now China indeed supports a multilateral world going against other western countries and being sanctioned for this. But then he goes.
            >to give its people the freedom to do what they want.
            And that would even include crime activities. But China has wiped out nearly every crime triads they had in their country. So in a real world Deus Ex there would be no Tracer Tong alive to try anything stupid. And China would use what ever Bob Page had to their advantage instead.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              >And that would even include crime activities.
              kek no it wouldn't, the bartender obviously isn't arguing for outright anarchy, he clearly says "real freedom, freedom to own property, make a profit, make your life", e.g. a state that protects and fosters the positives that a thriving market brings, while at the same time preventing the market from conquering the state and maintaining firm social and political control.
              >But China has wiped out nearly every crime triads they had in their country. So in a real world Deus Ex there would be no Tracer Tong alive to try anything stupid.
              Not in Hong Kong, which is where Deus Ex takes place

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >Hong Kong persists as a haven for organized crime.
                In that case having the Triads moved to non-violent crimes that don't disturb the peace seems accurate with reality. And the fact that China would be okay letting them have their crime activities in Hong Kong far from main land China. It seems the devs did a lot of research about the Chinese government relationship with the Triads business in Hong Kong and that hasn't changed much since that day. But still they could never imagine that China would have the tech to compete against the Bob Page from today. Then perhaps having a Chinese villain competing against Bob page would make an excellent prediction and a better game than having a poor Triad desperately trying to shut everything down.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                I don’t remember if the bartender was talking about Hong Kong or PRC as a whole when he was talking about economic freedom. It would’ve been interesting to have a glimpse of some other Chinese city, as it was implied that all of Western world was under Illuminati rule and thus ultimately similar and HK is a city that is between the West and the East. Did the developers imagine that Shanghai or Beijing would be more prosperous than crime-ridden New York and Paris?

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >I don’t remember if the bartender was talking about Hong Kong or PRC as a whole when he was talking about economic freedom.

                The game is set after the handover, so it's a PRC run Hong Kong. In the world of Deus Ex, China is outside of the Illuminati, thus they are an actual opposition force.

                >Did the developers imagine that Shanghai or Beijing would be more prosperous than crime-ridden New York and Paris?

                Keep in mind you visit shitholes in New York. Paris looks okay for what it is, and how the engine shows things off. I imagine Shanghai and Bejing would look similar.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                In the dialogue they directly reference the Chinese premiere and head of state, they mean all of China, not just Hong Kong

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                The chinese saying. "One country, two systems" apply to the game as well.

                I don’t remember if the bartender was talking about Hong Kong or PRC as a whole when he was talking about economic freedom. It would’ve been interesting to have a glimpse of some other Chinese city, as it was implied that all of Western world was under Illuminati rule and thus ultimately similar and HK is a city that is between the West and the East. Did the developers imagine that Shanghai or Beijing would be more prosperous than crime-ridden New York and Paris?

                >It would’ve been interesting to have a glimpse of some other Chinese city
                Both Macau and Taiwan would also have these separate systems I suppose, since these two are also heavily controlled by triads as cassino owners and political parties in the real world.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Is that kind of dialogue that I missed when I played Human Revolution.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            damn I really ought to replay this game now that I can actually understand what everyone's talking about

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >The mark of the educated man is the suppression of these qualities in favor of better ones. The same is true of civilization
            Perhaps, but most people are not able to give up on their human nature. It leads most men down suffering and depression, a civilization that rejects ones own humanity is doomed

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              That line in particular is very Confucian. There was disagreement among Confucians whether all people have good qualities that need to be cultivated (Mencius/Meng Zi) or people start with no knowledge of good and need to learn it (Xun Zi). Either way the implication is there are no naturally bad people, only people too lazy to learn to be good and well behaved, or grew up in an environment where they couldn't while they were young

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Or borderline eugenicist; some people are inherently weak therefore they need to be culled to make the whole stronger

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                the ones who deny their biological reality will be the ones culled. Today, they are already the weakest people mentally and physically

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          In the pic he goes
          >China is the last sovereign country in world. Authoritarian but willing -- unlike U.N. governed countries
          Right now China indeed supports a multilateral world going against other western countries and being sanctioned for this. But then he goes.
          >to give its people the freedom to do what they want.
          And that would even include crime activities. But China has wiped out nearly every crime triads they had in their country. So in a real world Deus Ex there would be no Tracer Tong alive to try anything stupid. And China would use what ever Bob Page had to their advantage instead.

          You really have no idea what you are talking about either the Game or modern China. yet you talk like you do. Why?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            About what? About China competing on having control over global online communications against the west like we see now with 6g for example? The first game was made in the assumption that the west would control everything and there was not much to tell about Chinese government unless in that dialogue with the bartender where the whole idea is based on Triads as they would have any power against the West. The only thing Triads ever did in the real world against the west was to beat protesters trying to westernize hong kong.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              I think that that chinese think the earth is infinite and the west disagrees. Let the west explore space, and let the east control the earth, maybe.
              The arrangement might make sense as our technology advances. We don't like it here anyways.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                That's up to Elon Musk he even admitted to be a fan of the game in his twitter

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                that dumb fuck will say anything to sound cool to nerds online

  5. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    It doesn't matter if Tracer Tong is right, what matters is what the player decides. You are given three very fundamentlaly different paths for the world:

    >reverse the centralizing trends, by destroying global communications. This is everything from tv, to internet, to phone calls. Would take years to repair.
    >Keep the status quo and kill page but join the Illuminati. The radical elements are removed, but things revert to before the pandemic.
    >Continue the centralizing trend, but replace the corrupt humans with the perfect AI. The entire power of Area 51's behind JC Denton and Helios to govern the world.

  6. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >"JC we need to make a vaccine for the gray death"
    >"Nevermind let's just bring down modern society lol"
    What were the writers thinking?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Don't they have to periodically release it or something? They literally have a grey death factory.

  7. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >The game is a little over dramatic, humanity would quickly recover back to its current state and implement the tech, not revert to villages.
    Anarcho primitivism was kind of a fetish of Y2K media. Deux Ex, The Matrix, Fight Club, etc. A semi-conscious understanding of the horrors we were about to dive into if we didn't stop right this second.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      TIL that Escape from L.A. was made in 1996, not the '80s.

      I'll also throw Blue Gender onto the list, I guess. How do you feel about Logan's Run, though?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >How do you feel about Logan's Run, though?
        Not the same thing, it's a commentary on the subversion of the West happening at the time, a result of the bad guy winning WW2. It criticized the emergence of the "rebel without a cause" motif, propagating non-stop intergenerational conflict.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Tracer Tong's plan was to revert things to the bronze age because things had become so centralized. There is no wrong answer, just like there is no wrong answer to getting the crossbow, sniper rifle or GEP gun at the beginning.

      Tong was the opposite of an anarcho-primitivist. When MJ12 came out with a new super-sword, his solution was not to ban/destroy it but to distribute it to both major triads. He explicitly says "Not so drastic [as a stone age]; a dark age of city-states", which in the context of the full game could easily be understood to be in line with the themes of anti-centralization that defined Tong.

      I like Deus Ex but it's so full of mindboggling retarded design decisions like that. Why did they even give you the choice?

      >t. zoomie that watched a playthrough or googled "GEP gun" before making the decision
      My first pick was the sniper, and since sniper ammo is pretty rare at that point (and quite useful for the Osgood's mission), it's hardly a terrible pick. Immediately replaying the game after beating it for the first time and realizing "Holy shit Paul offered me a rocket launcher at the start?" was very memorable.

  8. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Tracer Tong's plan was to revert things to the bronze age because things had become so centralized. There is no wrong answer, just like there is no wrong answer to getting the crossbow, sniper rifle or GEP gun at the beginning.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Is the trick that, in reality, the right answer is the GEP Gun? The Crossbow and Sniper Rifle you can acquire before you even enter the statue.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >There is no wrong answer, just like there is no wrong answer to getting the crossbow, sniper rifle or GEP gun at the beginning.
      You can literally loot a sniper rifle and a crossbow within 1 minute of being offered the choice

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        I like Deus Ex but it's so full of mindboggling retarded design decisions like that. Why did they even give you the choice?

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          No choices in video games matter, the important thing is what went through your head when you made the choice. The game's saying
          >Hey, you should be stealthy, but what gear do you want?

          gear for mercy
          gear for murder
          shit for memes

          Immediately sets expectations for the game being a free-form sandbox where all three are valid play strategies, and asks the player to consider how they wish to approach the challenges ahead.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >Why did they even give you the choice?
          Did you not listen to Paul at all? I'm a cop, who just got told by my more experienced brother that a non-lethal takedown is best. Why would I even want to "loot a sniper rifle"? If you ignore the actual game situation and try to play it as some random simulator of course you're going to end up saying dumb things like >eets full of bad design deceesions

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Tracer Tong was one of the smartest minds living he had no intention of living in prehistoric squalor.

      No, he even admits in the sequel that it was retarded and changed nothing.

      is anything outside of the original game to be taken seriously?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        I accept your point, but at the same time, it's really obvious that his plan is retarded and would change nothing. If anything, the illuminati would use it as an opportunity to grab even more power.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          I agree, the "destruction" he would cause would not be long lasting at all.
          My theory is that he wanted to just live his days out being the gangster king of Hong Kong without having to worry about an organized government

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Thats retarded, you get the GEP gun. The sniper rifle and crossbow you can pick up minutes after this conversation and before you even enter the statue

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >I read guides/watch walkthroughs before playing games

  9. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >the 20 yo me think Tong's end was the best
    >now at 35 I think that the Illuminati makes more sense.

    Getting old really change things.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Illuminati is the only ending where JC still has power and is still fully himself, although there would probably be a big bureaucracy stopping him from making any more silent GEP gun takedowns.
      The Illumaniti were always one step ahead of you, Paul, and MJ12 through Harley at liberty island. For the most contrived part of the game where you betray UNATCO over a couple of emails, there's no telling whether Illuminati could have pulled some strings to make it inevitable anyway, since they fund NSF and Silhouette. IIRC Harley was only put in the bar on the 3rd NYC visit and revealed as an Illuminati agent to avoid the problem of a character appearing once and disappearing, leaving a player with a decent memory wondering where the fuck they went, and it lead to a really interesting plot thread.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        We're given no reason to doubt the documents, and they turn out to be true. Only issue is the inconsistent Manderley characterization. He's portrayed for the most part as straight laced and attempting to resist Simon's pressure to turn UNATCO into Page's private army. But then there's the MJ12 base in his basement, and he has to know the pandemic is a ruse.

  10. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    No, he even admits in the sequel that it was retarded and changed nothing.

  11. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Helios ending best ending

  12. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >the illuminati are an organized group with agents, assassins, soldiers and supporters in various positions around the world
    >they were already an established power at the time of the first crusade
    >IF WE TURN OFF THE INTERNET THEY WILL LOSE!
    Tong is a straight retard that will simultaneously make the destitute even weaker and strengthen the grip of their overlords. It may not be "Bob Page is now God" bad but I do not understand how he imagines armed groups will just spontaneously disband during a time of obvious social upheaval.

    Take the MJ12 troops in France. They are obviously working with the Gendarme and Paris police. Are they just going to suddenly say "okay, there are bread riots, internet riots and our entire society is about to collapse.. lets fight the MJ12 guys who previously helped us root out undesirables!"?

    Even their resistance group was whittled down to a dozen or less people and trapped in the catacombs. Is Chad going to say "hey everyone, you remember Silhouette? we work with the guys who fucked everything up!" and spark a popular revolution?

    The Illuminati ending is the closest to a good one. I don't know how a world ruled by a god AI would be so I cannot say if it is good or bad.

  13. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    The AI ending is obviously the best one, as outlined in the initial design documents. Tong is an anarchist maniac without a plan, and the Illuminati is the status quo. They should be replaced with the almighty machine, who, with Denton's help, can become the benevolent God that people wanted to worship throughout their history.
    >Deus ex machina (English "god out of the machine") is a plot device whereby a seemingly unsolvable problem in a story is suddenly and abruptly resolved by an unexpected and unlikely occurrence. Its function is generally to resolve an otherwise irresolvable plot situation, to surprise the audience, to bring the tale to a happy ending, or act as a comedic device.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Helios ending best ending

      Siding with Helios is the Bob Page/UNATCO ending.
      All MJ12 wanted to do was institute an AI overlord, they do not lose in any way if you become the AI's vessel instead of Boob Page

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >Siding with Helios is the Bob Page/UNATCO ending.
        >All MJ12 wanted to do was institute an AI overlord, they do not lose in any way if you become the AI's vessel instead of Boob Page

        Yes they do. MJ12 was just Bob Page's personal army at that point, and the entire plan was built around Page's control freak ambitions. He wanted to be the god-king to reign over the world as the supreme being. Not for the betterment of anyone, just so he could be immortal and all powerful.

        Helios has no ego, and JC never intended to merge with a machine. With them there's at least a chance this system could be turned benign.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Whether JC or Bob takes control is effectively the same outcome and ending. They both more than likely have much less control than the AI and will just be used for their physical bodies

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Not true. Helios says it doesn't want to merge with Bob Page. Part of the AI's it came from was designed to hunt out "terrorists", and it deemed all the major players to be terrorists, including MJ12. Helios is at least well meaning. Not saying it can't screw up or not handle the pressure of world dictatorship, but it at least has good intentions. Bob Page does not, and he'd just use it to become an immortal god dictator of earth.

            JC-Helios merger is at least going to be more benign. Whether it works or not is up to the player, they make that leap of faith or they hold back. That's the beauty of it all. There's enough hints that it could work, but then we don't actually know if it would.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              >Helios says it doesn't want to merge with Bob Page.
              Only because Bob Page is not ready yet. To an AI with incomprehensible power and intellect, every second wasted must feel like an eternity.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              In what world would you think Helios has good intentions?
              He sounds creepy and offputting the entire time.
              He could easily be lying to JC and will instantly take over JC's body and will when they combine.

              Not sure where this fantasy comes from where Helios is infallible or has good intentions at all for biological life.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >Not for the betterment of anyone, just so he could be immortal and all powerful.
          While the game leans a bit too hard into Page just being a super-villain, it's not too hard to find evidence that Helios was just Page's ideals put into practice: "soon there will be order again, a new age". Though it's ruined a bit when he misattributes Augustine's City of God to Aquinas, and then proceeds to name the Aquinas Protocol on the same mistake, kek.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >as outlined in the initial design documents
      The initial design documents where Adam literally threatens nuclear orbital bombardment of Earth if JC DOESN'T make him an AI-god? If anything the original documents were so violent and over the top that they reinforce that all endings lead to ruin in the end.

  14. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Yes he was right but the garden gnomes and masons want you to choose illuminati ending

  15. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I literally have not killed a single soul and have just been batoning people and everyone at unatco is raving about how I'm so cool for slaughtering people at clinton castle. Damn this shit breaks my immersion.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Yeah, Deus Ex has some retarded triggers sometimes.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      I got seriously hung up about this on my current playthrough since it happened on my last run too, ended up finding an ancient forum post where some guy dug around in the game files and found that picking up unconscious bodies caused them to be tagged as dead.
      It's total bullshit, but just remember not to arrange the KO'd guys like they're eating each other's asses next time.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        man that blows. I was hiding bodies since I figured they'd alert everybody, does that not matter?

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          It's strange, but it seems they never implimented that feature in-game. I've never seen a guard react to a body at all.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          It's strange, but it seems they never implimented that feature in-game. I've never seen a guard react to a body at all.

          yeah you're taught to hide bodies in the tutorial but it never matters. various mods added some AI behavior for this which means it couldn't have been that hard to do in the first place.

  16. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Tracer Tong was right, but his ways are quite wrong. He's attacking the medium, but not the cause.

    Icarus ending is the only right one.

  17. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I always merge with Helix. I trust an AI to govern more impartially than anything else. That's not to say it's purely impartial, since it will favor the continued existence of itself, but ego is not as huge of a driving factor.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      The AI's dialogue came off as very arrogant and suspect to me. There's no guarantee it ever said anything it meant and just wanted to take over JC's younger physical body

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >The AI's dialogue came off as very arrogant and suspect to me.

        It's literally God - the Trinity. Daedelus, JC Denont, Icarus. "God is the dream of good government". The idea is that they now have the ability to make a real god to rule over and guide humanity. Of course he's gonna sound a little arrogant.

        There's no reason to doubt it - and the trial run in Hong Kong shows how it plans to rule. People will follow it if they can increase efficiency.

        The only issue and question is whether there's long term problems, or glitches to account for.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >It's literally God - the Trinity. Daedelus, JC Denont, Icarus.
          That is never even slightly implied in the game.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            It's three beings in one including Jesus Christ Denton. How more obvious can you get? It's an obvious allusion.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              So what does that make Bob Page, God's God? And since when was the Trinity two diametrically opposed beings fused first, followed by a third later?

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >So what does that make Bob Page, God's God?

                Bad-end god.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Most retarded post in this thread.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous
            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              No shit, the game's title literally begins with "Deus". Helios being a machine-god is not the same as JC/Icarus/Daedalus somehow representing the Holy Trinity. Even the JC = Jesus Christ thing is basically just a meme, the Christian references/elements are fairly mild and mostly historical, and only in the most shallow "JC can sacrifice himself at the end of the game" interpretation can any comparison between the two be made.

  18. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    what to play if I want to feel like a JC Denton unmasking the goverment but don't want to play Deus Ex again?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Why would you not want to replay such an amazing game?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        I need more rest

  19. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Helios is the only ending worth considering.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      How are you "considering" anything if its the only option?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        The other option is to refuse the choice and turn off the game.

  20. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Just me or is the starting pistol actually the most OP weapon in the game? With max pistol skill you can pop a MIB in 2 shots and 10mm ammo is way more common than shotgun shells and 7.62 which can only be shot in bursts of 5. And then there's 10mm AP ammo for when you want to blow up a security bot or augmented MJ12 without the GEP gun.
    The crossbow is also really powerful but lethal darts aren't as common as 10mm

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >10mm AP ammo
      You're playing the game modded

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        But that being said, yes, the starting 10mm is still a great gun. I wouldn't call it OP since the sniper is superior in basically all respects except ammo availability and reload time, but pistol for most enemies and sniper reserved for commandos is ezmode all the way through.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Oh yeah, last time I played was with GMDX. I'm guessing that also added napalm rounds for the GEP gun, which made escaping the 'ton hotel very fun

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          If you're referring to the WP rockets, those are canon

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      You can dump every enhancement mod into the steath pistol, then get a scope and laser, and master in pistol. Then the stealth pistol is a long range sniper rifle that takes up little space. Often have to double tap to kill, but it's still game breaking.

      I don't know why more don't talk about it as game breaking. It might be that you have to put in so much work when you can just put a silencer on the sniper rifle and master rifles and get the same job done, or just GEP gun everything.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Master in any weapon class other than Assault rifle and explosives is enough to break the game. You aim so damn well!

        Assault weapon I can't help but be unable to make good. It just seems janky and too low damage. 3x5=15 possible damage at most. The handgun seems like a better deal.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          The grenade launcher tho

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          The Assault Rifle and Sniper are all you need what the fuck?
          At master all shots land and you can one shot pretty much everything in the head

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      It's been said a lot that the only weapons that you need for deus ex are the pistol, gep, dragon's tooth and maybe the prod. Which is all true.
      Headshots have like a x8 multiplier, so they're almost always lethal with the pistol and stronger weapons.
      Weapon mods make it so most weapons can attain the same accuracy and same with clip mods which can easily make the pistol better than all rifles, including the sniper rifle.

  21. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I've stopped at the ocean lab. The sub base misson was ridiculously simple and now I get to this shit which is clearly an homage to system shock? I fucking hate that "Everyone's already dead" shit. That's the main reason deus ex is good is it wasn't that mickey mouse audiologs dogshit

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >noooooo I can't stand variety in my immsims, every single mission needs to have humans to perform backstab multiplier attacks on

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      What are you talking about? That mission is awesome, features aquatic enemies, awesome ambient soundtrack, interesting design that makes use of verticality, and pretty short.
      What kind of audiolog mod did you install?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >audiolog mod
        Do you really not know what i'm talking about? you haven't played a shock game?

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          No I haven't, but the level you mentioned hardly stands out from the rest of Deus Ex

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I'm not saying it's a particularly bad level. I'm saying I'm offended by how blatant a reference/re-implementation of SS it is. It's essentially functioning as a parody interlude which I don't appreciate at this point in the game. Don't argue back to me that 'it can't be that bad' unless you've gone and played ss/ss2

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              You sound extremely autistic, the level is fine and plays great with some of the best music.
              Just because you have baggage due to past shitty games doesn't affect the final product

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                the real issue of the ocean lab is that the final section (the universal constructor lab) is stupidly short, simple and easy.
                >nothing but spiderbots
                >all of them can be easily avoided
                >at this point in the game its obvious that players can avoid the trap tripwires or blow them up and disable them.

                OK I played it. It has a good look and atmosphere. It is pretty spooky and it turns out the 20 year old image living in my memory of a flooded room is from this level.

                The system shock gag is just the first module where you arrive and have to go up through some levels (something definitive and featured in even other derivatives of ss e.g. uss dark star), with the plant trays and misleading story about the computer went wrong.

                The rest of the level, it's very linear and the mission is a bit of a joke (go here to push the button) but it succeeds in creating a sense of tension and isolation that I guess it's meant to. The guy on the radio says it's all down to you now so that ties in with that. No other people left in the world to even share a fight with. That was cool

                I can definitely see what people are saying about it being a moon base at some point. they got the kubrick 2001 moon excavation lights up and all

                The music is nice. I don't know how i feel about this yet, but it's certainly interesting that the composer sampled Ocean Girl for Ocean Lab. I wouldn't have thought Americans even watched ocean girl (in the show they had a lab attached to the ocean floor made of modules, pic related)

                ?t=77

                ?t=9

                (now it's not the same note sequence of course - the da-di-da is the ocean girl 'theme' but I swear that the three descending notes in the ocean lab music used to play in the show as 'incidental music' when something mysterious was seen) it was a vaguely conspiratorial sci-fi new age show influenced by xfiles so perhaps rather than seeing it as kids they saw it while researching for deus ex....

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                (sorry not 'sampled' i meant to say referenced or whatever (until I can find whether in ocean girl is those same notes like i remember) and ocean girl music itself was very indebted to erric serra's The Big Blue soundtrack so maybe dx devs were rather influenced by that directly - though it doesn't use panflute much I thought)

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                I definitely see the comparison. Whatever instrument that is was used in a lot of oceanic music back in the day

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >autism: the post

  22. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    the real issue of the ocean lab is that the final section (the universal constructor lab) is stupidly short, simple and easy.
    >nothing but spiderbots
    >all of them can be easily avoided
    >at this point in the game its obvious that players can avoid the trap tripwires or blow them up and disable them.

  23. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >We did a vast amount of research into "real" conspiracies -- the Kennedy assassination, Area 51, the CIA pushing crack in East L.A., Dwight Eisenhower's UFO connection, and of course Freemasons tunneling below the Denver airport and building abducted-baby cafeterias for alien invaders at George Bush's direction. Only a fraction of this stuff ended up in the game, but it gave us a peek into the minds of conspiracy buffs that was both scary and useful.

  24. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    After the gas station which was a good little puzzle, it turns into a different kind of challenge. It could be because the devs ran out of time but also plausibly it's just that JC is out of time. He's not a detective anymore, he's trying to beat the clock. It's a 'climax'. It'd be 'frantic' if JC could feel that way. I don't really like it as much, but I don't like the climax part of any media let alone games. I like the opening exploration/mystery self-paced parts.
    The sub base, the ocean lab, missile silo and so far area 51 did not have the 'deus ex feel' to me which is specifically being challenged to figure out a way to pull something off, doing something that you think 'hehe i bet they never thought about me doing this, i'm breaking the game', and later realizing no, the game knew the whole time. These later missions are just 'go here, now here'. The only thing in the way is combat. If you get a door which needs lockpicking, there's a box next to it with lockpicks. It's not very deus ex feeling but why would they do this? Well I think because these missions add up to like 5 minutes worth of the game and they are supposed to be one continuous tom-cruise run scene that peaks the tension. Still, it would have probably been better to keep the original feel.
    There's a chance for redemption (cont'd)

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      I'm at area 51 now. I was excited at first when i checked my goals and it was just a blank page. I thought 'oho, wow, the game said "over to you"? ludoKino'. But then aunty Tracer was back my ear 'buhh go there, do that'. 'buh the elevator isn't working you need to get power for it'.
      Someone telling me in my ear to get in an elevator but go the other way first to get power for it? That is the literally exact thing that made me quit system shock 2. I just don't fucking acquiesce to garden path instructions. I'm not some cuck doggy following orders to a t. But this not a shock, it's Deus Ex, and I'm JC Denton. I'm the player, and I'm here to kill bob page. I'm going to try to jump down on these pipes with my leg augs. If this works, then we truly have a transcendent game.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        hehe all right, turns out there was still a little Deus Ex left in the can

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        After the gas station which was a good little puzzle, it turns into a different kind of challenge. It could be because the devs ran out of time but also plausibly it's just that JC is out of time. He's not a detective anymore, he's trying to beat the clock. It's a 'climax'. It'd be 'frantic' if JC could feel that way. I don't really like it as much, but I don't like the climax part of any media let alone games. I like the opening exploration/mystery self-paced parts.
        The sub base, the ocean lab, missile silo and so far area 51 did not have the 'deus ex feel' to me which is specifically being challenged to figure out a way to pull something off, doing something that you think 'hehe i bet they never thought about me doing this, i'm breaking the game', and later realizing no, the game knew the whole time. These later missions are just 'go here, now here'. The only thing in the way is combat. If you get a door which needs lockpicking, there's a box next to it with lockpicks. It's not very deus ex feeling but why would they do this? Well I think because these missions add up to like 5 minutes worth of the game and they are supposed to be one continuous tom-cruise run scene that peaks the tension. Still, it would have probably been better to keep the original feel.
        There's a chance for redemption (cont'd)

        You're a retard, in the entire game you never are a slave to the person in your ear, except for maybe the jailbreak. Just because someone has access to your brain and tells you what to do doesn't mean they are an omnipotent god you have a lot of fags telling you what they want you to do.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >in the entire game
          yeah, this was about whether the end part went to shit and turned different or not

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      I'm at area 51 now. I was excited at first when i checked my goals and it was just a blank page. I thought 'oho, wow, the game said "over to you"? ludoKino'. But then aunty Tracer was back my ear 'buhh go there, do that'. 'buh the elevator isn't working you need to get power for it'.
      Someone telling me in my ear to get in an elevator but go the other way first to get power for it? That is the literally exact thing that made me quit system shock 2. I just don't fucking acquiesce to garden path instructions. I'm not some cuck doggy following orders to a t. But this not a shock, it's Deus Ex, and I'm JC Denton. I'm the player, and I'm here to kill bob page. I'm going to try to jump down on these pipes with my leg augs. If this works, then we truly have a transcendent game.

      How did you deal with Simons in the ocean lab?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        well, here's the thing my save files got lost before so i downloaded one at gas station. but i have no idea what difficulty setting it is. it seems to play the same as the realistic setting i had been playing.

        I mention it because he just died in 2 rockets that i quickly got off. I wondered if i just got lucky so i've just now gone and killed him like 3 more times with the sword etc. for some reason the 3 blasts he gets me with immediately from the plasma gun aren't doing much damage. This makes me suHispanicious i'm playing on easy and I can't find any way to check. Is simons supposed to be hard? The guy before him, on the elevated lift, I just shot with one rocket before he got a round off

  25. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I was in a real rush at the missile silo and some guy told me to program another launch which I just went and did because I figured heard the lategame is more railroaded and forgot to roleplay. I am just now coming to be aware it was... a nuclear missile. I launched a nuclear missile. At Area 51. Why did I do that?

    >The exterior of the facility, including any buildings not within the main bunker, are guarded by the US military. These military personnel are unaware of the existence of Majestic 12 and the research they carry out within the bunker.
    > a number of soldiers die in the blast

    I murdered non-MJ12 servicemen for some reason?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      (and then I just went over there like I wasn't going to be giving me a lethal rad-dose?)

  26. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >people like this garbage

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Based.
      Shitty disgusting graphics that are not at even minimum acceptable level. No it was not okay even at the time or 5 years before it got released. Shitty gameplay and level design.
      >inb4 muh gameplay choices
      Same fucking choices 50 time clutter UI is not good game design. It all leads to same conclusion basically different skins. Basically bloated.

      Great story with choices that matter, okay music and atmosphere. Game is carried only by its story.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Obviously ESL third world cancer

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Great argument you have there. Would you like to hack some bullshit or go through the vents? Because we have created the same shit over and over again. Its gonna feel the same regardless.

  27. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Eh you have to headcanon too much shit to make Tong anything but completely retarded
    If you pointed a gun at my head and told me to think of some way to interpret Tong as interesting, I'd say it's the ending you pick if you think the Illuminati/MJ12 are just a random blockage that's fucking up the flourishing of the human race and nothing similar would form again if you reran history. Maybe just a consequence of white supremacy, which couldn't happen again without the massive developmental differences of the industrial revolution.
    But that villages and transmissions thing is just so fucking stupid it points to the DE devs considering you a retard

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      I chose Tracer Tong, he seemed by far the most trustworthy and most sensible ending. The only thing I disagree with is him deducing humanity would turn back to villages, when we would just quickly reimplement the internet in less than a few years.
      Blowing up Area 51 only ensures the net wont be controlled by mJ12 or strange shadowy AI, it won't make humanity forget information and inventions

  28. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I saw a previous thread where people were bemused about "a new dark age". I hope people realize that before it became memed into meaningless, the idea of a 'dark' age is one that when you look back, you can't see it, because there aren't records from that period. Because people didn't write things down much. It doesn't mean life was "dark" i.e. horrible. It's simply to do with the availability of information due to the information practises of the time.

  29. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Do amish live in a dark age?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      We all live in our own dark age, we just don't realize it

  30. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    The only person you can trust is paul all these other people just want you to do their bidding. did you click paul like 6 times at the dock at the beginning? you chat about old times. you can't just ignore your damn beloved brother and just join in with some random crooks

  31. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Ocean lab is a kind of cool bleak scary level in that dark horrible place, but for the game's theme, it should probably have been in Antarctica. There's no conspiracy theory about ocean labs off california's coast. They wouldn't even need to change the level actually just say it's on the floor of an sub-glacial lake. An old nazi base taken over by 12

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      it might make sense with the theme of conspiracies but not for the game world. MJ12 would want to stay within or near the United States they wouldn't just repurpose Antarctic bases for no reason

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