Did the Bakshi version do anything better than the Jackson version?

Did the Bakshi version do anything better than the Jackson version?

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  1. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    musical numbers

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      I dunno, I think Jackson's version of Gimli singing Memory from cats was pretty decent.

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      Bakshi version mostly sucked, but I dug the Isenguard march theme and the When There's A Whip theme.

      I can't tell if I'm being baited, but you're both thinking of the Rankin-Bass film

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        Rankin Bass was the Hobbit, Bakshi did LotR

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          Rankin-Bass did try their hand at Fellowship, but the only thing of note there is Where There's a Whip There's a Way because it's a good song.

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      WHERE THERE'S A WHIP *WH-PSH* THERE'S A WAY

  2. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    My mom didn't let me watch this as a kid because it was too "frightening". Yes, I was extremely sheltered.

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      Boromir getting executed in the cartoon was pretty crass.

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      It's a shame your mom is the reason you became autistic but I know that feeling.

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      Honestly, the balrog was just an old school demon and I can see it terrifying a kid.

  3. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    Aragorn felt more like a Chad. I also have a bit of a soft spot for 70s fantasy art but the Jackson films are still goat.

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      I came to this thread to post this the Jackson Aragorn has nothing in common with Tolkiens Aragorn. Jackson turned him and Arwen into something worse than parodies (they also completely inverted Eowyn's character arc because they either hated her original character or simply didn't understand what she was about despite Gandalf literally explaining it loudly and slowly for anyone who didn't get it).
      I think the Jackson hobbits are probably better than the Bakshi ones.

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        Agreed.
        Except for your comment about the hobbits. Cartoon Sam beats that goonie kid to death with his frying pan, tbh. And live Frodo is a carbon copy of cartoon Frodo. Merry and Pip? maybe - they certainly got more screentime.

        But, yeah: Aragorn wasn't Aragorn in the live movies - and I like the live movies (well, the first one, anyway). Bakshi captured Aragorn and the hobbits better - hell, all the characters feel better in the Bakshi version, now that I think about it.
        Hmmmm. Yes. Bakshi's characterizations were superior. More visceral, more true to the tale. Jackson and team tried to modernize the characters, I guess? And that's why they feel 'off'?
        I'm not sure....

        Would have loved to see Bakshi's take on Eowyn.

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          Eowyn is such an interesting point to examine because they really are exact opposites from Tolkien to Jackson. The slaying of the witchking was the beginning of her lowest moment in the books but it was her highest pinnacle the films. She was in a constant race to the bottom and once she hit it she had no where to go and basically lost all purpose until she chose to love Faromir instead of her own ego. Jackson ripped out all of the nuance and turned into a girl power moment.
          It rufles my fathers in literally all the wrong directions. Gandalf word for word says that her discontentment was a symptom of Wormtongues manipulations. JACKSON LITERALLY SIDED WITH WORMTONGUE!!!
          AAAAAAA
          How can that guy call himself a tolkien fan and literally take the side of the villains?

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            Eh some things are a given from hollywood. And considering how later GIRL BOSS moments would be handled in film (LotR even), I''d still rank Eowyn firmly in the good category. I mean that she still had to struggle and get a Hobbit assist alone makes it better than most new cinema. It's not ideal but it's a sacrifice of adaptation. We're already juggling a lot of character arcs.

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            I think that not all "modernization" changes are inherently bad.
            The movies, largely due to their runtime, couldn't effectively do the healing houses, so they couldn't give Eowyn her full original closure. I get why they'd just make her a heroic figure in that context.
            It also bears saying that the fact that the only character who evolves by deciding not to do violence is also the only woman with a character arc, which while understandable in Tolkien's context can be a bit uncomfortable to modern audiences (I always thought it was a little bit cringe and I read the books years before Jackson's films came out). I know I'm taking a risk saying this shit on Ganker but I trust Tolkien fans (which you'd have to be to still be reading this thread) to be somewhat more thoughtful than the average shitposter. Time will tell.
            >Gandalf word for word says that her discontentment was a symptom of Wormtongues manipulations.
            I'm currently reading through the books again and just got to Helm's Deep; I don't recall anything like that, though it's possible I missed it. Can you provide a citation?

            • 10 months ago
              Anonymous

              >the only character who evolves by deciding not to do violence is also the only woman with a character arc
              A weak man will get shit on for it, but nobody will ever care if a woman is weaker than her peers or not, and that's because physical and fighting ability are masculine, not feminine traits. Women ought to be feminine and refine their ability to be compassionate, support and care for others, etc. That's all there is to it and it's perfectly natural.

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                OK boomer

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                >Implying Luthien didn't carry Beren's ass on their quest
                >Implying Haleth didn't kick seven kinds of ass
                >Implying all Rohirric women weren't trained in combat
                >Implying Galadriel didn't fight in several battles in her younger days
                >Implying Elrond and Galadriel don't do literally the same job
                >Implying Aragorn's primary identification isn't literally that he is a healer
                >Implying you could ever be more masculine than even the most feminine woman of Rohan

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                Tell me you are a virgin without telling me you are a virgin, the post.

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                Just because you can embrace reality doesn't mean reality is good. nor is the solution bad. Women being kind and desirable and soft lead to a race of harpies for whom no men would ever say no. Only now that they take up the sword of lonelyness along side men can they be cleaned from their own sins, before that, any woman who decided against that selection was forced to dirty the entire inside of the vessel of humanity by peer pressure alone.

                No matter how much you may hate it, life is a moving thing, and to freeze it in time is just as corrupting as to defile it.

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                > weak man will get shit on for it
                yeah by other shitty weak men. You ever notice how real chads dont shitpost about virgins and cucks on the internet all day?

            • 10 months ago
              Anonymous

              > Can you provide a citation.
              Yessir. From Return of the King chapter 8

              ‘My friend,’ said Gandalf, ‘you had horses, and deeds of arms, and the free fields; but she, born in the body of a maid, had a spirit and courage at least the match of yours. Yet she was doomed to wait upon an old man, whom she loved as a father, and watch him falling into a mean dishonoured dot-
              age; and her part seemed to her more ignoble than that of the staff he leaned on.
              > ‘Think you that Wormtongue had poison only for Theoden’s ears? Dotard! What is the house of Eorl but a thatched barn where brigands drink in the reek, and their brats roll on the floor among their dogs? Have you not heard
              those words before? Saruman spoke them, the teacher of Wormtongue. Though I do not doubt that Wormtongue at home wrapped their meaning in terms more cunning.
              My lord, if your sister’s love for you, and her will still bent to her duty, had not restrained her lips, you might have heard even such things as these escape them. But who knows what she spoke to the darkness, alone, in the bitter watches of the night, when all her life seemed shrinking, and the walls of her
              bower closing in about her, a hutch to trammel some wild thing in?’

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                That explains why I hadn't gotten to it yet.
                That said, I'm not sure I agree with your interpretation. Certainly some of her restlessness was the result of Wormtongue's poison, but I think the desire to prove herself rather than spend her life passively was inherent to her. Her downward spiral was at least partially the result of the despair caused by Wormtongue, with that I agree; but it's not clear to me, from the text, that she only wanted """manly""" things because Wormtongue instilled that desire in her. She was always a proud shield-maiden.

            • 10 months ago
              Anonymous

              This.
              Tolkein was an undeniable storycrafting genius, compassionate man, and very well educated. But he was also a 1920's conservative, born before most women had the right to vote and sometimes, that does show through in his work.
              I agree with Jackson. He can't show every single character ending, and in many ways, each character arc is worthy of its own film, so he avoids broaching what would demand a lot of setup and screentime to not be labeled as straight misogyny, he rounds her character arc off with the classic "not a man" answer, shows her spirit and courage in facing down a rumored invincible warrior in battle, and though tested, claims victory.

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                It's this interesting case where if Tolkien lived today I'd wager there would be a very different balance of men and women doing things and in how men and women are described in the narrative.
                Even for Tolkien's time period and context, it's almost laughable how Luthien (and her dog) do practically everything; and at the same time, Beren is always described as tall and strong and badass, while 99% of adjectives applied to Luthien are some sort of adjective for skinny. It's borderline Whedon-esque.

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                nobody has the right to vote moron.

            • 10 months ago
              Anonymous

              This.
              Tolkein was an undeniable storycrafting genius, compassionate man, and very well educated. But he was also a 1920's conservative, born before most women had the right to vote and sometimes, that does show through in his work.
              I agree with Jackson. He can't show every single character ending, and in many ways, each character arc is worthy of its own film, so he avoids broaching what would demand a lot of setup and screentime to not be labeled as straight misogyny, he rounds her character arc off with the classic "not a man" answer, shows her spirit and courage in facing down a rumored invincible warrior in battle, and though tested, claims victory.

              It's this interesting case where if Tolkien lived today I'd wager there would be a very different balance of men and women doing things and in how men and women are described in the narrative.
              Even for Tolkien's time period and context, it's almost laughable how Luthien (and her dog) do practically everything; and at the same time, Beren is always described as tall and strong and badass, while 99% of adjectives applied to Luthien are some sort of adjective for skinny. It's borderline Whedon-esque.

              The whig theory of history is antithetical to LOTR, Tolkien, and Christianity.

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                Irrelevant to the linked posts. Nobody's saying history is a march forward (certainly not Tolkien) but it's factual there are certain attitudes prevalent today that weren't when Tolkien was writing. While Tolkien wasn't exactly keen on technologist progress, he seemingly did his best to be even-handed and unbigoted; and today, that would look different from how it did in the 1930s.

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                the story and idea behind lord of the rings would not survive that kind of bs. not that it is all that grand mind, but even he struggled with orcs and the idea behind them in his theming. the book literally wouldn't survive modernization.

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          >all the characters feel better in the Bakshi version, now that I think about it.
          >Caveman Aragorn and D&D Barbarian Boromir are great
          You nostalgiagays contrarians are something else

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            Feel and look are different things.

            • 10 months ago
              Anonymous

              Correct, but my point still stands.
              Additionally, you can't just ignore visual presentation and, in case of Aragorn, mannerism in a visual medium.

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            >muh, it's not like the movies!
            You ignorant lazy kids are something else.

            I'm with you - Galadriel passed the test long ago. Her laughter afterwards shows us her bemusement at Frodo's trust and naivety and utter lack of interest in power. Her soft sad voice tells us she fully knows taking the Ring as a gift was impossible. In Bashki's version, she's informing Frodo how the Ring would corrupt even her. She's not passing a test, she's showing Frodo why he can't just give it to her or anyone else. The moment was to demonstrate to Frodo there could be no easy way out, and that the burden of the Ring had to be his alone.

            [...]
            Blanchett's Galadriel is too hollow and cold, and that scene really lost me when she delivers her 'I pass the test' line as if even she is surprised in that. ('I pass the test?') . Pretty sure there was no laughter afterwards either. Which make sense if she was really (barely) passing a test that would have changed the entire fate of Middle Earth. But it doesn't match the text of the scene or, imo, the entire vibe of Galadriel and Lothlorian.

            >The moment was to demonstrate to Frodo there could be no easy way out, and that the burden of the Ring had to be his alone.
            Brilliant!
            You understand, anon.

            >note the girlish giggle
            That's only in the Bakshi.
            >if she wanted the Ring, she would have taken it as soon as he set foot in her forest, and left the companions on the edge of Lothlorien as arrow-riddled corpses
            She quite literally said, in the preceding paragraph, that she entertained the thought of doing exactly that.
            >It is NOT explicit that she sought to rule her own domain. At all. Where did you get that?
            >She DID rule; she has the RIGHT to rule. But did she SEEK it? Don't think so.
            "...and like her brother Finrod, of all her kindred the nearest to her in heart, she had dreams of far lands and dominions that might be her own to order as she would without tutelage." -The History of Middle Earth, volume 12, page 337

            You don't understand.
            Yeah, the girlish giggle was in Bakshi - that was my point: Bakshi understood the scene, and had her giggle deliberately.
            She DIDN'T kill the Fellowship.
            She sought dominion and ruled in the past, you know, while she was undergoing 'the test' - she also (probably) participated in or endorsed the Kin-slaying. She was a typical noldo.
            But she grew.
            And she passed the test.
            Frodo just let her prove it. He was the final stroke of Doom. He was the New Fourth Age. With his coming was her going. She had the chance to take the Ring and power, sure: but for her to actually take that chance and resume her quest for power would have gone completely against her character at that point in her life.

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        Jackson completely switched the characters of Merry and Pippin for no reason

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          I mean, they dont really do much in the jackson movie. Them an ghimlie got the shit end of the comedy relief of the stick. Its sad you didnt get to see them go from dumb yokles to more serious war vets in the movies.

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            >shit end of the comedy relief of the stick
            Most if not all that comedy is also in the books, so ...

            • 10 months ago
              Anonymous

              Literally none of the Gimli slapstick is in the books. Gimli is an eloquent, intelligent, and sensitive nobleman, with perhaps too much violent chivalry.

  4. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    Gave Gandalf schmovement

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      >de_dust2

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        zozzle

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      This animation clean tho

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        Bakshi is GOAT tier animator.
        Coonskin and Fritz the Cat are also cool

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      I love (hate) the inconsistency in how he portrays orcs. In some shots they're these weird shadow human demon people, in others they're short diminuitive cartoon turtle people.

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        that's Bakshi for ya, guy's got serious problems staying focused.
        probably because of all that cocaine he was doing.

        Agreed.
        Except for your comment about the hobbits. Cartoon Sam beats that goonie kid to death with his frying pan, tbh. And live Frodo is a carbon copy of cartoon Frodo. Merry and Pip? maybe - they certainly got more screentime.

        But, yeah: Aragorn wasn't Aragorn in the live movies - and I like the live movies (well, the first one, anyway). Bakshi captured Aragorn and the hobbits better - hell, all the characters feel better in the Bakshi version, now that I think about it.
        Hmmmm. Yes. Bakshi's characterizations were superior. More visceral, more true to the tale. Jackson and team tried to modernize the characters, I guess? And that's why they feel 'off'?
        I'm not sure....

        Would have loved to see Bakshi's take on Eowyn.

        Bakshi handled the character moments pretty decently, but spending half the movie in the fricking aether kinda kills it, especially after Boromir dies and takes the budget with him so that Helms Deep happens in a goddamn void of red dust

  5. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    Here’s a decent retrospective on the film that also includes some info on Bakshi’s career overall. The guy concludes that Bakshi’s version has a few strengths over Jackson’s (Aragorn’s performance in general, Frodo’s stand at the river, the “speak friend” scene, and a few other scenes that were simply executed quite well) but by and large it’s a mess owing Bakshi’s eccentricity, studio waffling, the tech not being where it needed to be, and those three things crashing against the wall of limited time and budget.

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      I remember retroactively learning after watching Wizards he was the guy who did Coonskin and he made a Lord of the Rings movie.
      Which made actually watching his Lord of the Rings even wilder.

      Is it good? Bad? Both? I don't know but I'm glad his stuff exists.

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        Bakshi is a fricking terrible influence on western cartoons. His one legacy he left is that all adult cartoons in the west need to be irreverent and obsessed with sex, drugs, and alcohol. His movies are ugly and miserable because he is an ugly and miserable person.

        Seth Rogan’s Sausage Party is the result of his legacy.

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          Personally I'd blame Groening (and by extension his imitators MacFarlane and Parker/Stone) for that and Groening sure as hell wasn't imitating Bakshi, he was channelling things like Rosanne and Married With Children in a deliberate attempt to make American sitcoms edgy.

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            Decent take. That kind of cynicism and irony defined the mindset generations of USA kids. Can see it in the comedy too. I bought in, myself. Regret it - I'm better now but not my fellows.

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          Fitting, given Tolkien was a terrible influence on western fantasy. I'm pretty sure the entirety of Middle Earth was made to cater to his belief that he was a reincarnated survivor of Atlantis.

          Literally, it's in his letters.

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Fitting, given Tolkien was a terrible influence on western fantasy.
            > Fitting, given Tolkien was a terrible influence on western fantasy.
            Tolkien as Tolkien is 100% fine the problem is, at least in the US, the people who picked up on and really embraced Tolkien did not share his underlaying worldview and assumptions about the world so the people who he influenced adopted the window dressing but forgot or didn't understand that there was a whole house that that dressing was intended to decorate. In the way you ended up with windows in open fields letting you see through into nothing from out of nothing.
            Unironically Lewis' explicitly Christian messaging though hindering it's mass popular appeal (at least modernly speaking, it was astoundingly successful in it's day and in the generation following and will likely persist as a part of the Western fantasy canon if not the literary canon at large) insured that any attempt to divorce it from it's core worldview would utterly abolish the work as a whole and can't suffer the same degradation as Tolkiens work has. Tolkiens implicit Catholicism just wasn't a strong enough defense.

            This serves to teach us a very apt lesson. If you go halfway something or somebody else is going to meet you from the other end.

            • 10 months ago
              Anonymous

              I think it's simpler that Tolkien just didn't present an interesting fantasy world. Sharing or not his worldview doesn't change things like the small village of Bree being, literally, the only settlement of any intelligent life for hundreds of miles in a hospitable Central European climate.

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                Hospitable though it may be climate wise, it was the last refuge in a world where intelligent wolves, goblin bands, and magical plagues are deliberately conjured and sent after any Free People. It would be utterly destroyed if not for the Rangers, who are diminishing and can not keep the watch of old.

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                Which makes no sense. We know that those wolves and goblins are complete pushovers. Hurin as a little kid kills trolls and an army of orcs attacks the Shire and flees from a lone hobbit. They're a non-issue in the setting (one of its flaws imo). The plagues are one thing but there hadn't been a plague for over 1500 years by the time of the LOTR's events, yet for some reason the entirety of Eriador was around 200 people living in a small hamlet, and the Shire had like a thousand hobbits in it tops.

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          >Bakshi is a fricking terrible influence on western cartoons. His one legacy he left is that all adult cartoons in the west need to be irreverent and obsessed with sex, drugs, and alcohol. His movies are ugly and miserable because he is an ugly and miserable person.
          Hmm...
          >Ralph Bakshi was born on October 29, 1938, in Haifa, British Mandate of Palestine, to a Krymchak israeli family.

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          > Bakshi is responsible for Brickleberry

          The most unforgivable sin.

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          Let me guess, you also whine when a fictional RPG church is portrayed as evil

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      Ah, this guy is generally good.
      Tangentilally, his video on The Book of Henry and another guy's video (link) on Jurassic World convinced me Colin Trevorrow is a psychopath with no understanding of human morality.

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      >has a few strengths over Jackson’s
      He said the performance is solid, he never said is better.
      I find fascinating how our own bias alters the perception of a small video.

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous
  6. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    Is that caveman supposed to be Aragorn?

  7. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    No, but Rankin-Bass's did.

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      I know people shitpost about SOVL a lot here but man you can just feel the passion and care in this image.

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      I have mixed feelings. Nostalgia glasses on full for me as I watched it as a kid. I like the aesthic and old school vibes. As a film though, the pacing is weird as shit and bilbos dialouge is always starts to annoy me as he has to spell out his every thought. "Gosh. I? I bearer of the ring? Curious... a hobbit, to carry a ring? No that's something. Indeed. Clever. A ring to be carried by me. A burglar. A burglar who is carrying THE ring? But why?" (Que enjoyable yet awkward music) also the movie constantly just telling you "this is very special, it's special you'll see, it is a special time, so special indeed." And the music sort of deflate any tension when bilbobis going into the mountain.

      Prefer the last unicorn if I want that sort of lost era of animation vibe, as it's a little less awkward. That constant Rankin hand postures always make me laugh a little, but they work. Everyone constantly doing big stage manerisms.

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        sounds like you could just redub it, but I kind of like that.

  8. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    I much prefer Bakshi's Galadriel, especially the voice actresses' more measured and goodly response to being offered the Ring.

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      Jackson went too far on the sfx, but reading that scene I get the sense that he portrayed Gal's actions fairly accurately. She was genuinely and fiercely tempted, so much so that it made her instantly resign herself to giving up leadership and power.
      Cartoon Galadriel feels like she's just reading words off a page with little direction and no understanding of their context or weight. When Frodo offers her the ring, she laughs it off and delivers the lines that are supposed to convey her temptation as though they were terribly droll, and when she says "I passed the test" it makes no sense because there was no test being portrayed.

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        Well, that's certainly Jackson's interpretation and yours. But mine was more in line with Bashki's - that Gal was never seriously going to take the ring, it was more of a brief daydream/nightmare to demonstrate to Frodo that the Ring would even corrupt her, even the most goodly, that there is *no* alternative to its destruction. I think that was the point of the scene - to show Frodo and the reader that there was really no alternative to going to Mordor, as terrifying as that prospect was.

        Bashki's version preserves Gal's goodliness and wisdom better, and I like that. Of course she would not take the ring - she was too wise to, and Frodo had to learn there was no alternative solution to its destruction in Mordor.

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          I can accept that this is the interpretation he was going for, but even with that in mind it falls flat for me. She's literally dancing and giggling while describing the evil future that will result if she takes the ring, and it's very jarring tonally.
          Plus, again, her line delivery throughout the scene is very odd. She seems like the type of whimsical, flighty fairy that Tolkien specifically tried to avoid; her voice carries zero gravity in 90% of the lines. She sounds like Glinda, cheerfully informing Dorothy that she did a murder and asking her if her dog is a witch.
          The scene LOOKS great, but the Galadriel voice acting is failing to carry the scene emotionally.

          Remember that Aragon doesn't have a bear.

          Actually there are still a handful of wild brown bears in Aragon, although they are critically endangered.

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            Man, we really see that scene differently. I love the voice acting, and was disappointed in Jackson/Blanchett's version, which I found over the top (but then again, I found alot of Jackson's over the top).

            Oh well, I like differing takes on the same material. I like to think there is yet another LotR movie in the future that will be different than either Bashki, or Jackson, but still very worthwhile.

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            >but the Galadriel voice acting is failing to carry the scene emotionally.
            Nah, man.
            She already passed the test; she'd passed the test a thousand times previously. Her tone was correct: Frodo was silly to offer her the ring, and she expressed that.
            She's Queen of the Elves, one of the great powers of Arda.- she has considered becoming master of the world; she's seen kin destroy themselves with power. She's fought for and against them.
            She's thought long about the temptations of power in Arda.
            She chose long ago to stand against that.

            Now, in Jackson, he delightfully shows us this decision on-screen: very cool. Good for movie audiences. But that's not really how it went down.

            • 10 months ago
              Anonymous

              I just can't read it that way.
              >"All shall love me and despair!"
              >She lifted up her hand, and from the ring that she wore there issues a great light that illumined her alone and left all else dark. She stood before Frodo seeming now tall beyond measurement, and beautiful beyond enduring, terrible and worshipful. Then she let her hand fall, and the light faded, and suddenly she laughed again, and lo! she was shrunken: a slender elf-woman, clad in simple white, whose gentle voice was soft and sad.
              >"I pass the test," she said. "I will diminish, and go into the West, and remain Galadriel."
              There is a clear moment, after she says she wondered what she could do with the Ring were it to fall into her hands, where she is clearly still tempted by its promise. Jackson was over the top, but the big dramatic moment is right there in the text, and completely absent from Bakshi.
              She then says "I PASS the test," present tense; this is not a casual mention of past events, but a recognition of something that just happened. And note that immediately after, she says it's time for her to leave Middle-Earth behind (i.e. her queendom and power and authority, all things that she was wrong to seek out to begin with). Mastering the temptation of the ring is the final test proving that she is no longer the power-hungry Noldo she was when she first came to Middle-Earth -- regardless of whether she followed Feanor or chased him, it is explicit that she sought to rule her own domain, and that this was wrong and prideful.
              And Bakshi completely misses this entire context, instead portraying a woman not tempted in the slightest and already worthy of sailing West. To me, the text communicates something very different, and Jackson's version (with all its MANY flaws) at least tried to capture it.

              Man, we really see that scene differently. I love the voice acting, and was disappointed in Jackson/Blanchett's version, which I found over the top (but then again, I found alot of Jackson's over the top).

              Oh well, I like differing takes on the same material. I like to think there is yet another LotR movie in the future that will be different than either Bashki, or Jackson, but still very worthwhile.

              For what it's worth, I do think it's valid to have a different take on the scene, especially if you don't expect your audience to know (or care) about a minor character's backstory.

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                Nah man.
                She was just showing Frodo what a mistake he had made.
                There was no temptation in that moment: note the girlish giggle, anon.
                No, she was never tempted by little Frodo's offer: if she wanted the Ring, she would have taken it as soon as he set foot in her forest, and left the companions on the edge of Lothlorien as arrow-riddled corpses.
                You felt what Frodo felt; Jackson showed what Frodo felt; but what Galadriel felt was a weariness mixed with a passing mirth.
                "This little fool thinks to tempt a Lady of the Eldar with The Enemy's weapon? How quaint..."

                She knew the test of the Ring was coming. She had known for thousands of years: that was the only temptation she had yet to prove - PROVE - she could overcome: she couldn't PROVE it until it occurred; but she had long long ago given up any pursuit of power in Arda.
                It is NOT explicit that she sought to rule her own domain. At all. Where did you get that?
                She DID rule; she has the RIGHT to rule. But did she SEEK it? Don't think so.
                Bakshi portrayed her rightly. She resolved this conflict ages ago. Frodo was the final temptation; but her heart was tutored by Feanor and his Doom, and the massacre of the Teleri.
                Bakshi's portrayal was exactly correct: a faery queen making light of the little man's super serious offer.....because he really doesn't understand the powers he's wielding.
                Galadriel WAS worthy. She had lived her worthiness for thousands of years. Her refusal of the Ring was merely the final overt act. Her heart was already past the temptation.

                Now, none of that has to be shown, because it's implied in her dialogue and acting. Bakshi didn't need to have an uber-evil moment, which Jackson loves to do in his movies. Bakshi showed it as it appeared in the books.

                Bakshi is accurate and correct and tonally true to the story and the original books.

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                >note the girlish giggle
                That's only in the Bakshi.
                >if she wanted the Ring, she would have taken it as soon as he set foot in her forest, and left the companions on the edge of Lothlorien as arrow-riddled corpses
                She quite literally said, in the preceding paragraph, that she entertained the thought of doing exactly that.
                >It is NOT explicit that she sought to rule her own domain. At all. Where did you get that?
                >She DID rule; she has the RIGHT to rule. But did she SEEK it? Don't think so.
                "...and like her brother Finrod, of all her kindred the nearest to her in heart, she had dreams of far lands and dominions that might be her own to order as she would without tutelage." -The History of Middle Earth, volume 12, page 337

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                I'm with you - Galadriel passed the test long ago. Her laughter afterwards shows us her bemusement at Frodo's trust and naivety and utter lack of interest in power. Her soft sad voice tells us she fully knows taking the Ring as a gift was impossible. In Bashki's version, she's informing Frodo how the Ring would corrupt even her. She's not passing a test, she's showing Frodo why he can't just give it to her or anyone else. The moment was to demonstrate to Frodo there could be no easy way out, and that the burden of the Ring had to be his alone.

                >note the girlish giggle
                That's only in the Bakshi.
                >if she wanted the Ring, she would have taken it as soon as he set foot in her forest, and left the companions on the edge of Lothlorien as arrow-riddled corpses
                She quite literally said, in the preceding paragraph, that she entertained the thought of doing exactly that.
                >It is NOT explicit that she sought to rule her own domain. At all. Where did you get that?
                >She DID rule; she has the RIGHT to rule. But did she SEEK it? Don't think so.
                "...and like her brother Finrod, of all her kindred the nearest to her in heart, she had dreams of far lands and dominions that might be her own to order as she would without tutelage." -The History of Middle Earth, volume 12, page 337

                Blanchett's Galadriel is too hollow and cold, and that scene really lost me when she delivers her 'I pass the test' line as if even she is surprised in that. ('I pass the test?') . Pretty sure there was no laughter afterwards either. Which make sense if she was really (barely) passing a test that would have changed the entire fate of Middle Earth. But it doesn't match the text of the scene or, imo, the entire vibe of Galadriel and Lothlorian.

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                The fact that immediately after saying "I pass the test" she continues "so Imma peace out and stop ruling Lorien" is pretty clear evidence that something just happened with her. What would that be, if not a final test and redemption from the pride of lure of power that resulted in her being unwelcome in Valinor?

                Guessing Frank took a little artistic license to give us an Eowyn worth remembering. Also, Frazetta dudes have great asses too.

                Stupid sexy orcs

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                >The fact that immediately after saying "I pass the test" she continues "so Imma peace out and stop ruling Lorien" is pretty clear evidence that something just happened with her. What would that be, if not a final test and redemption from the pride of lure of power that resulted in her being unwelcome in Valinor?

                She knows Frodo is taking (and must take) the Ring to Mordor. Whether it is destroyed, or it is captured by Sauron, either way Lothlorien is doomed.

            • 10 months ago
              Anonymous

              No you fricking dumbass moron piece of shit. You don't get it. Nobody passed the test. Nobody is pure enough to resist the fricking One Ring. That is the entire point. It is a force of absolute corruption, those who take it are selling their soul forever and though Galadriel managed to muster the strength of will to resist it this time, the next time Frodo offered her the ring she could very easily fall to it regardless. The whole fricking point is that absolute power corrupts absolutely, because all it takes is one little moment of weakness and suddenly you are doing Sauron's bidding for him. This is the entire reason why everyone who ever touched the One Ring had to leave Middle-Earth (die), they were still tainted by it and had the seeds of evil deep in their heart. Holy fricking shit, I have never seen anyone miss the point of the story this badly.

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                How easily people forget that Frodo's ptsd nightmares were about the ring being destroyed.
                You're right -- Galadriel was in very serious danger. It took millenia of learning self-control just to keep from taking the ring by force, and then he just offers it. She almost broke.

                I'll even go further:
                That she refused had two effects: one, to finally fully understand that even she is not above the corruption of power; two, to prove to the Valar she finally learned her fricking lesson.
                That's why "I pass the test"->"I'll leave Middle-Earth forever now."

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                Wrong. Wrong. Wrong some more.

                How easily people forget that Frodo's ptsd nightmares were about the ring being destroyed.
                You're right -- Galadriel was in very serious danger. It took millenia of learning self-control just to keep from taking the ring by force, and then he just offers it. She almost broke.

                I'll even go further:
                That she refused had two effects: one, to finally fully understand that even she is not above the corruption of power; two, to prove to the Valar she finally learned her fricking lesson.
                That's why "I pass the test"->"I'll leave Middle-Earth forever now."

                She knew it all along you simpleton. Its right there in the text.

                Re-read the whole chapter again. Carefully, this time. Don't come back until all the text matters, not just the words you like. And also touch grass.

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                >Nobody passed the test! Nobody is pure enough to resist the fricking One Ring!!

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                When you got goldberry waiting for you at home there's nothing any dark power can tempt you with.

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                Hey dol! merry dol! ring a dong dillo!
                Ring a dong! hop along! fal lal the willow!
                Tom Bom, jolly Tom, Tom Bombadillo!

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        >I passed the test"
        It's because the line is "I pass this test"

        As in, she's not looking to enduring the temptation because she knows what she's going to become (exactly what she just described).

        She's leaving it to Frodo, who, despite originally wanting to test his heart, she has concluded is of markedly purer heart even than she, having literally just offered her the ring, having no desire at all to hoarde it, use it, or even get the glory for having destroyed it, and whose only concern in that moment is that the elves will suffer if he commits this necessary task.

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          Right. It's (unwittingly) Frodo's test that she passes. Which is ironic (and laughter-evoking) because Galadriel was there to test Frodo, not the other-way around. Frodo offering her the Ring made him pass her test (that he didn't know he was taking). Her refusing the Ring made her pass Frodo's test (that he didn't know he was giving). Its ironic, but its also sad. In passing each other's tests, their respective dooms are sealed.

          This discussion has made me dislike Jackson's version even more. He really does muck up some deeper moments for the sake of drama. Made for a more popular movie in modern times, but when you watch old movies with more shade, more subtleness, the modern emphasis of visual spectacle and action replaces that subtleness.

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            No no. Not as in getting past it. As in passing it on, to Frodo.

            • 10 months ago
              Anonymous

              That's a pretty massive stretch of the language. It's so much simpler to interpret that line as her not failing a test.

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                It isn't when you look at the full sentence in the book. "I pass the test, I will diminish, and go into the West, and remain Galadriel."

                "I will not attempt to use the ring for good and thus carry the burden of the ring and risk falling to it, I will instead simply stay myself, accept that times are changing, and that we elves must return to Valinor."

  9. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    Traditional games ?
    Wrong board

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      Wrong.
      /tg/ is a scifi and fantasy board

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      Commander Keen rule, you furgay.

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        I'm a newbie who's only been here eight years, what's the commander keen rule?

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          TL;DR: If it's /tg/ adjacent, it's on topic, and if you disagree ur a furgay

          it was originally made to talk about some vidya on /tg/, but if we can talk about dragon age down here, than we can also talk about LotR adaptations

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          Pre-2010. Whatever you think of it, Tolkien is a central column of our hobby and on-topic.

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            can I make a thread about ufo defense 1993?

            • 10 months ago
              Anonymous

              You mean XCom? Sounds legit.
              https://web.archive.org/web/20030319170043/http://www.cpjohnston.freeserve.co.uk:80/xcom/index.htm

            • 10 months ago
              Anonymous

              Yes. Please do.

            • 10 months ago
              Anonymous

              I fricking love this game and I'm playing the OXCE version in me cellphone and it's frickin great.
              As teenager I did so much /tg/ content related to xcom in my homebrews that it's unreal.

              Also MASTER OF ORION

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            thank you, descendant of BJ Blasckowicz.

            • 10 months ago
              Anonymous

              >calling someone a filthy trailer trash israeliteess
              Wow, rude.

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                All that proves is that quality skips a generation as The Commander is a respectable individual

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        Wrong.
        /tg/ is a scifi and fantasy board

        If a thread about vtubers streaming RPGs can get zooted off the board, then this shit should be too.

        I’m going to thcweam and thcweam until you get fricked over too (this is sarcasm)

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        >Just let me shitpost, even if the rule doesn't even apply to this thread
        Suck my dick, homosexual.

  10. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    Bakshi version mostly sucked, but I dug the Isenguard march theme and the When There's A Whip theme.

  11. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    How about the Russian 1985 version of The Hobbit?

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      Holy shit that looks bad. Like high-school production-bad.

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      Soul.
      Bad, but soul.

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      This looks great, gonna save it for later

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        But can we get this one colorized too?

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        But can we get this one colorized too?

        I'm not usually one to complain about sexy armor, In fact I love it a lot, I just think it's really funny when you remember she's supposed to be disguised as a dude.

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          Guessing Frank took a little artistic license to give us an Eowyn worth remembering. Also, Frazetta dudes have great asses too.

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          Look, that's as much skin as Frank can bare to cover on his heroes, alright? He had to down a fifth and bite a stick the whole time not to put her in a bottom-only loincloth made of scrap leather.

          Honestly I'm more surprised by Sauron only showing some ankle. I didn't know Frank even knew what sleeves were.

  12. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    It kept it at a watchable time.

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      This reminds me that the hobbit trilogy should have just been one goddamn movie instead of being padded out into the mistake it became.
      It's why for all its faults the first animated hobbit movie is less of a frick up despite making Bilbo a jackass that peaces out during the battle of five armies then just says he was knocked out instead.

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        It was going to be two, but literally a couple weeks before An Unexpected Journey came out, it was forced to be made into 3 movies.

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        Bakshi and Rankin/Bass did way better with less than Peturd Hackson.

        What kills me about The Hobbit movies is they cut important shit, like most of Riddles in the Dark, while adding fricktons of moronic shit like Radagast with his Rabbit sled and weed jokes. Another bit that killed me is he had a scene with Elrond, Galadriel, and Gandalf all in the same room and didn't bother showing The Three.

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        >jackass that peaces out during the battle of five armies
        Its been a while since i read the book. But iirc that basically what he did wasnt it? Outwide of the arkenstone and skipping the warebear/druid guy the rankin and bass hobbit is pretty spot on when compared ot the books. If im not mistaken most of the diolouge is also copy/pasted from it.

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          No, he took up the guard around the elf king and used the one ring to hide from goblins but never left. He was still smote by a large rock and knocked unconscious for the rest of the battle when he saw the eagles arriving.

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      Didn't do that by just abruptly ending at helms deep?

  13. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    Tolkien would likely have hated the Bakshi movie just because Bakshi was known for directing adult stuff that the Don would have found obscene.

  14. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    >5 hobbits

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      Alternate reality where Fatty Bolger joined the fellowship

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        Fredegar's lot in life is to be forgotten while his friends got to hang out with ents, bang warrior women, see the sea of the greatest kingdom in the world, and walk the cracks of doom and ride eagles and come back to marry his childhood friend or whatever Rosie was.
        The moral of the story is don't be fat.

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          Just wait until the next Mandela Shift happens and Fatty is the one who throws Frodo into Mount Doom and saves Middle Earth

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          Or rather, if you're going to be fat, be a Dwarf.

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      Bilbo

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      gollum

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      Me

  15. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    Bakshi was very fond of rotoscope.
    Not sure if it was a dead-end technology but at least at the time it looked fairly clunky.

  16. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    I'm familiar with asspulls but I don't usually see Goatses.
    Shameful really.

  17. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    Why was he a viking again?

  18. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    Honestly the best form of Aragorn wasn't even in either film, it would have to be Liam Neeson in Rob Roy which Bakshi Aragorn channels, if only a small amount.

  19. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    I haven't been too active online lately but when the hill did online LoTR become so b***hy

  20. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    Remember that Aragon doesn't have a bear.

  21. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    This

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      I didn't need these feels, anon.

      Eowyn is such an interesting point to examine because they really are exact opposites from Tolkien to Jackson. The slaying of the witchking was the beginning of her lowest moment in the books but it was her highest pinnacle the films. She was in a constant race to the bottom and once she hit it she had no where to go and basically lost all purpose until she chose to love Faromir instead of her own ego. Jackson ripped out all of the nuance and turned into a girl power moment.
      It rufles my fathers in literally all the wrong directions. Gandalf word for word says that her discontentment was a symptom of Wormtongues manipulations. JACKSON LITERALLY SIDED WITH WORMTONGUE!!!
      AAAAAAA
      How can that guy call himself a tolkien fan and literally take the side of the villains?

      This.

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      I didn't need these feels, anon.
      [...]
      This.

      It's nice but I wish Rankin/Bass did all the books The Hobbit (1977) version will always be the perfect version over even the lotr. I mean just listen to the soundtrack if doesn't fill your soul with warmth, wanderlust, and spirit adventure I'll find you a liar.

      Rankin/Bass

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        might help if I link the fricking song

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          frick

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            Wow, we used to teach our kids to be brave, go out, and live your lives.
            Now, we teach them how to be useless sucks, and brainwash them into being slaves.
            We teach fear, now, not bravery.
            We teach obedience, not independence.

            • 10 months ago
              Anonymous

              >We teach obedience
              When was this ever not the case?

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                Some parents want their kids to do what they're told.
                Good parents want their kids to do what they choose.
                Sorry you got the first batch, I guess?

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                In Tolkien's day they whipped children until they bled for saying the wrong words or being late to a class. What the frick moronic blanket statements are you making about how free and wonderful it was then? Frick off, revisionist.

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                >straw man
                >ad hominem
                You kinda suck at this, don't you kid?
                It's the butthurt: the butthurt has unbalanced your reason - that's why you sperg out and fail at reading comprehension.
                You're a good, obedient little boy.

  22. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    I have never read any of the books except the hobbit, and I saw the Bakshi film first through some freak accident.
    My first experience with watching the Jackson trilogy was when a friend got our gaming group together to watch the extended cuts of the films, and during this watchparty he would angrily shush us when we tried to riff or do anything, despite the fact that he had seen the films at least a dozen times by this point.
    So I like the animated one more, without irony or anything.

  23. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    Lord of the Rings isn't very good.

  24. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    Basically everything. Jackson stole all the best parts shot for shot, but Bakshi's version is much more true to the spirit of LotR.

  25. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    REMOVE JACKSON remove jackson you are worst director. you are the peter idiot you are the peter smell. return to new zealand. to our new zealand cousins you may come our contry. you may live in the zoo….ahahahaha , orlando we will never forgeve you. elf rascal frick but frick butthole peter stink orlando sqhipere shqipare..peter jackson genocide best day of my life. take a bath of dead jackson..ahahahahahaJACKSON WE WILL GET YOU!! do not forget hobbit part 2 .WETA we kill the king , WETA return to your precious New Zealand….hahahahaha idiot jackson and orlando smell so bad..wow i can smell it. REMOVE MIRAMAX FROM THE PREMISES. you will get caught… you will the hobbit part 2/ Mike Ploog alive in Bakshi’s adaptation, Ploog making album of Bakshi’s adaptation . fast painting Ploog Bakshi. we are rich and have gold now hahahaha ha because of Ploog… you are ppoor stink Jackson… you live in a hovel hahahaha, you live in a sound stage
    tupac alive numbr one #1 in Bakshi ….frick the Jackson ,..FRICKk PETER JACKSON no good i spit in the mouth eye of ur adaptation and movie. Mike Ploog aliv and real strong wizard kill all the jackson farm aminal with artistic magic now we the Bakshi rule .ape of the zoo presidant Peter Jackson fukc the great satan and lay egg this egg hatch and Viggo Mortensen wa;s born. stupid baby form the eggn give bak our clay we will crush u lik a skull of pig. Ralph Bakshi greattst moveie

  26. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    the songs, hobbit songs are comfy

  27. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    You fellas aren't honestly pretending you've watched the cartoon versions?

    I downloaded them over 10 years ago but quickly realized it's not worth watching.

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      I say it first run in the theatre, b***h. It, Shogun and Star Wars were the 3 things that had the most impact on my childhood.

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        >It, Shogun and Star Wars were the 3 things that had the most impact on my childhood.

        Are you me??

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        Well I guess if you're born in the dark ages you play with sticks, and if you're born in the 60s you watch cartoon LOTR. You do the best with what's available to you.

  28. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    Wrong board

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      >Just let me shitpost, even if the rule doesn't even apply to this thread
      Suck my dick, homosexual.

      Frick off you sad piece of shit.

  29. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    Brapditional James

  30. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    Bakshi LotR was terrible. Rankin/Bass Hobbit was great though. Shame Rankin/Bass didn't get a license to do the whole LotR trilogy.

  31. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    Characterizations are way better. There are a few scenes where the rotoscoping and actual animation mesh really well into a good action sequence. Making orcs be footage of real people gives them an otherworldly quality that would have worked if the costuming wasn’t terrible.

    The characters can get away with stuff that would look ridiculous for a real person. Legolas is a great example, where he’s animated and voiced in such an effete way that would look uncomfortable seeing someone like Orlando bloom doing that. The characters are much more themselves, that is to say, pure to the books, than Jackson’s characters, because Jackson’s had to be more grounded in reality.

    Also they made the movie for like $20 so like props to Bakshi for being able to make a multi-billion dollar film long before it would ever be feasible, while doing all the drugs ever.

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      My unpopular take: I like the rotoscoping. Its weird and different and creepy.

  32. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    yes

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