Dragon Quest

Where the frick is it?

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  1. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Switch 2

  2. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    At Square Enix somewhere.

  3. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Considering both Sugiyama and Toriyama died after XI, DQ XII is most likely in development limbo. Horii still owns the IP, so you won't see Square Enix push it out anytime soon.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Nonsense. Toriyama's work as a concept artist would have been completed years ago, and it doesn't take 3 years to find a new composer.

      The game was announced early, as SE tends to do, and its development was likely slowed by the new combat system they developed for it, as well as the pandemic. Now that everything FF they had in the pipe is out, I expect to see them go hard on DQ.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        These three people have been the stable of DQ since 1986. Sugiyama owned all the music and Toriyama owned all the character designs. Could be legal problems there, too.

        Two of the three core people have died, of course that has huge effects on the development.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Two people of import passing away isn't going to bring a game's development to a standstill. They may have owned their respective creations, but they were still created under contract with SE, contracts that would ensure their right to make use of those assets as they saw fit.

          >and its development was likely slowed by the new combat system they developed for it, as well as the pandemic. Now that everything FF they had in the pipe is out, I expect to see them go hard on DQ.
          You do realize DQ's teams are completely separate from the FF ones, right?
          The DQX staff don't even operate in the same building as the FF MMORPG staff.

          Obviously. I'm reffering to SE not competing against itself by promoting one big RPG at a time.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >I'm reffering to SE not competing against itself by promoting one big RPG at a time.
            DQ and FF do not have similar target audiences.
            FF targets a Western demographic with expectation of Eastern diehards to buy it in smaller numbers.
            DQ has an Eastern demographic overall, with no real thought paid towards a Western one.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Yes, they do. Me.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >but they were still created under contract with SE, contracts that would ensure their right to make use of those assets as they saw fit.
            This is false. SE owns nothing when it comes to DQ, they just publish the games.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Right to use =/= ownership. SE publishes the games, yes. That means they fund their development. Which means there's a contract. Its only reasonable that said contract allows them to use what they pay for as they see fit, even if they don't 'own' it.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Entirely depends on what the contract looks like. But just look how few DQ games there are compared to FF. It's obvious SE can't do whatever the want.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Entirely depends on what the contract looks like
                Are you seriously implying the contracts for DQ12's art and music wouldn't give SE express permission to use them for DQ12? Because mind you this is the crux of this argument, whether the passing of Toriyama and Sugiyama resulted in issues related to the use of their contributions to the work.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Who holds the rights to music and characters after their deaths? It's not SE, that's for sure. So then it depends if the rights holders allow their work to be used.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >It's not SE, that's for sure
                Entirely depends on what the contract looks like :^)

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Who holds the rights to music and characters after their deaths?
                Unless the contract was written up by the most incompetent team of lawyers in human history SE would.

                SE quite literally doesn't own the music or the art. A simple glance at the copyright for the games shows that the former is owned by Sugiyama's estate and the latter defaults to Bird Studio.
                There probably are contracts in place in regards to the reuse of art and assets, but we don't know the full extent.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >rights
                Owning the rights to an IP =/= ownership of the IP itself. You are a lawlet.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Yeah, that's not what I'm saying. Yuji Horii owns the IP, that's not in contention.
                But similarly, as stated in the copyright for the games, Sugiyama's estate owns the music and Bird Studio owns the art. That's why DQ is seen as having three main staff as well, and why Sugiyama could do orchestral showings of the music all the time without paying SE a dime.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                And I will say it again: unless SE has the worst team of lawyers in existence they still own the publishing and use rights for those assets after the creator's deaths. There are a lot of shitty lawyers in this world but they don't typically get to draw up contracts for multi billion $ franchises. Contracts involving that much money typically involve an entire team of lawyers at a large firm meaning you would need at least a dozen people to be an impressive level of stupid.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >And I will say it again: unless SE has the worst team of lawyers in existence they still own the publishing and use rights for those assets after the creator's deaths.
                The publishing deal was made prior to SE's formation and was part of a game development competition where Enix would fund someone's game idea, which is why the rights are as weird as they are. You're using your lack of knowledge on DQ's initial development to project ultimately easily disprovable ideas.
                >don't typically get to draw up contracts for multi billion $ franchises
                It is highly unlikely any contracts were rewritten, otherwise things wouldn't be so sketchy in regards to usage of orchestral soundtracks nor would Horii still have so much control as to completely change the direction of spin-off titles (which is what happened recently with Treasures, which was initially concepted as DQM3 before DQM3 became a Psaro game and Treasures was made from the original version), nor would all three groups be individually credited above SE.
                It is very likely the exclusive publishing deal just has not changed since then, with SE's control mostly extending external media like Emblem of Roto or the Dai no Daibouken projects.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >It is highly unlikely any contracts were rewritten,
                It is completely the opposite. IPs don't blow up to that extent without people wanting to renegotiate. There is a bigger pie at that point and parties naturally want a bigger slice for their contributions. Also you don't necessarily need to completely redo a contract, many points can simply be addressed with an addendum.

                Anon it's Sunday but I have reviewed more distribution agreements in my life than you can possibly imagine. That's how the game works.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                And literally nothing about how the games are made and released has not changed. The only notable changed was starting with DQIX, the games actually started being developed in house, which was likely a cost saving measure more than anything rather than outsourcing work to Level 5 or similar companies now that it was being published by a larger group with actual on hand development staff.
                SE is still iffy on using orchestral music for the games, all art is still done by Bird Studio, etc.
                The only area of DQ where SE has shown to be more involved directly is with external media, as already mentioned, and that had already been the case prior to the merger with licensing out the IP for anime like Dai no Daibouken and Yusha Abel Densetsu.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Publishing and distribution contracts don't necessarily have anything to do with development. Addendums can be filed to adjust everyone's cur, extend the term, revise the language of a single paragraph, etc. There is a 0.01% chance that a contract for a multibillion dollar franchise was left completely untouched for 30+ years. It would be unheard of. Realitically things were probably reviewed at least every 2-4 years unless both parties were agreeing to insanely long terms which would be in nobody's best interest given the amount of money being discussed.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Who holds the rights to music and characters after their deaths?
                Unless the contract was written up by the most incompetent team of lawyers in human history SE would.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                This is the same company whose CEO took his business advice from a fricking psychic. Of course they would pick the most incompetent lawyer I can’t believe there is even any doubt

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Horii (Armor Project) = Owner of the Dragon Quest IP
                >Sugiyama Kobo Co., Ltd. = Owner of Dragon Quest's Music
                >Square Enix = Publishing rights holder
                Argue till your fingers bleed, it's not going to change a damn thing. Sugiyama Kobo Co., Ltd. owns all of Dragon Quest's tracks, past and present until they go with some other composer. In Smash Bros. Ultimate, he is credited as the sole owner of the composition and arrangement of said music track. "Composition and Arrangement: Sugiyama Kobo Co., Ltd."
                >https://www.ssbwiki.com/List_of_SSBU_Music_(Dragon_Quest_series)#Composition_.26_Arrangements

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Yes, I'm aware. No one is debating that. I suggest you learn the difference between IP ownership and the use and publishing rights of said IP.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Are you seriously implying the contracts for DQ12's art and music wouldn't give SE express permission to use them for DQ12?
                We don't know the full extent of how music works with DQ, but given how much the games flip between MIDI and orchestral, SE probably does have far less control over that than one would expect. It's more likely the music, which is owned directly by Sugiyama, is not composed as part of a contract but composed and then licensed out to the games.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >and its development was likely slowed by the new combat system they developed for it, as well as the pandemic. Now that everything FF they had in the pipe is out, I expect to see them go hard on DQ.
        You do realize DQ's teams are completely separate from the FF ones, right?
        The DQX staff don't even operate in the same building as the FF MMORPG staff.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        This is why Sony NA acquiring SquareEnix was a mistake. You don't even understand the culture when it comes to a gap. No wonder why after all the good staff who leaves a game company spells the death of them.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Sony NA acquiring SquareEnix was a mistake
          That hasn't happened, anon.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >thing that only happened in my own sub-80iq mind was a mistake
          You don't say?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I keep forgetting Toriyama died. Jesus Christ.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Dude DQXI released on 2017 and conceptual work would have had to start even before that.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      You don't think Sugiyama and Toriyama did any work for DQXII in the 4/7 years between DQXI's release and their respective deaths?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous
  4. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Since this is current day SE, DQ12 will feature NFTs that you can purchase.

  5. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Sugiyama was already prepping Hayato Matsuo to be his successor, i'm sure that bereavement aside there will be no problems on the music side.

  6. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    yuji horii said a week ago
    "There has been some worry about Dragon Quest XII, but I was actually in a meeting [about it] until just a bit ago. While I can’t share any details yet, I want it to be something worthy of the posthumous work of the two Akira Toriyama and Koichi Sugiyama who passed away. I’ll do my best!"
    so it's not like it's announced and there's 0 news about it like most of these cases
    the game still exists and is in development

  7. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    they are going to announce the Lotto trilogy remakes HD2D to deflect the fact that this is still at least 5 years away.

  8. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Who cares?

  9. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Switch 2 launch title.

  10. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Gotta wait for the Switch 2 Direct/Presentation. Notice how Nintendo always gets first dibs on Dragon Quest games nowadays? Hopefully, it's not that far out anymore.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Notice how Nintendo always gets first dibs on Dragon Quest games nowadays?
      That's primarily because DQ games are released on primary Japanese markets, the current one being the Nintendo Switch.
      DQXII itself probably won't be seen this year though.

  11. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Unironically might be cancelled because it's the same shit as FF16/FF 7 Remake and both of those flopped + SE is in a crisis + 2 out of three key figures died

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >might be cancelled
      It isn't.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      FF16 and Rebirth underperformed due to their PS5 exclusivity, it was their AA output (which WAS multiplatform) that has been dragging them down in recent years
      Hence why they recently cancelled a bunch of smaller games in pre-production and their strategy going forward is to focus on AAA development while abolishing exclusivity contracts
      DQ12 will be made, its games like https://store.steampowered.com/app/1895810/Infinity_Strash_DRAGON_QUEST_The_Adventure_of_Dai/ that are going to disappear from SE's future lineup.

  12. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Get off the videogame board.

  13. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Let them work. If Square Enix fails also with DQ it's truly over.

  14. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    If it's not a homies in a row game anymore I won't be interested. Final Fantasy went to absolute shit. I don't want that happening to Dragon Quest.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      This but unironically

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I was already unironic though

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          You weren’t unironic enough to not be in this situation

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Final Fantasy went to absolute shit
      Bro that happened 35 years ago, get over it

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >If it's not a homies in a row game anymore
      You are not in a row in XI you can free move

  15. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Not on söystation hopefully

  16. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Who cares? Where the frick are the pc (not epic) ports for all the series is what you should ask.

  17. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Will they frick up all the character names again for no good reason?
    And give everyone moronic accents?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      bong accents are soulful.

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