Is this game basically Devil May Cry?
>Yup.
Does it have gameplay as good as DMC games?
>Yup.
That means that the gameplay is good and it's a good game.
>That makes sense to me.
So then it's a good game, take it.
>It's not a good game because it's not a real Final Fantasy.
>it's not a real Final Fantasy.
Correct, and Yoshi P acting like a moron doesn't help.
It's a completely different thing to be a good game and to be a good game in a series. Though since it's FF I don't really care as they have different gameplay and story in every entry.
eh, it's precisely the issue that the gameplay was pretty consistent for like 10 entries. always turnbased 4 dudes in a row. that became the identity.
If FF was still turn based no one would buy it and the franchise would be dead
It's dead now
No, FFXIV saved it.
i dont disagree. it wouldn't be dead so much as treading water at lower sales. square wants it to be a juggernaut and to do that it needs to appeal to the masses.
the contingent of people who would purchase every entry if they were turn based is numerous enough to complain a lot when it's not turn based but not numerous enough to make the suits think turn based is a good route for sales
The franchise was still alive when it was turn-based. And turn-based games are still popular. We live in an age where even SMT and FE can sell more than a million units, and going turn-based didn't kill Yakuza at all. Hell, Yakuza 7's existence disproves this "turn based is unpopular" theory that guys like you and SE keep repeating.
Would you be fine with FF games that look like SMT and FE?
>Would you be fine with FF games that look like SMT and FE
That's not what I was alluding to nor does it have anything to do with the argument that was being made.
I love how people keep pretending Final Fantasy somehow will pull elden ring sales out of its ass just because it's le real time open world, all of you make it sound so easy when Square can barely make half a game with a 150 million budget and a dozen producers. Capcom will have to kind of try just so everyone can see what a real high profile japanese RPG is like for once.
Muh JRPG elements, you know saying...The times change, and if you don't change with them, you get left behind.
You're kind of ignoring the most successful FF ever. Also, 16 isn't open world. ALSO, Miyazaki and Fromsoft had no idea ER would sell as well as it did.
>“Honestly, I haven't analyzed it much,” Miyazaki replied. “It’s true that sales were higher than those of our previous games, but I have no idea what the reason was. So even if I wanted to reproduce that success, I wouldn’t be able to,” he laughed.
https://www.ign.com/articles/dark-souls-creator-miyazaki-elden-ring-no-idea?utm_source=twitter
Good? A rotting zombified corpse isn't exactly pleasing to look at just because it used to be someone you know.
You're a goddamn moron. The first three games had foud turn based dudes in a row, IV introduced ATB and changed the party size to five, V took it back down to four, VII changed it to three, IX changed it back to four, and X is three again but now it's fully turn-based with mid-battle party switching.
You're one of those morons who thinks ATB isn't turn-based aren't you?
Only if you consider ATB and turn-based to be the same thing.
>Enemies and members of your party take turns carrying out battle actions. The current action is shown here.
I mostly agree with them being essentially the same. But I know others who don't feel that way, never liked ATB, and loved when X returned to complete turn based.
I don't care whether ATB tards or full action tards get their booty hole blasted more
I just want comfy conditional turn based back
Completely omitting Amano's logo in the boxart is so fricking gay
Is this like SoP? Where that was just Nioh 3 with a FF skin. Is this just DMC 6 with a FF skin?
There's probably less DMC in it than Nioh in SoP since SoP was made mostly by Nioh people while 16 is mostly made by XIV people with a DMC person.
It could look like Yakuza 7, if you like.
>It could look like Yakuza 7, if you like
Did you fail reading comprehension? Can you read, black man? I'm not saying that FF should be like these other series.
A homie can only read so much. Anyways, here's another webm.
DMC is trash. FF is trash. It makes sense.
How will XVI make DMC's sandbag enemies not feel like the boring sponges they are on the first playthrough for a game that most people will only ever playthrough once? DMC itself only ever gets good in later playthroughs when you unlock everything and can actually combo.
>How will XVI make DMC's sandbag enemies not feel like the boring sponges they are on the first playthrough for a game that most people will only ever playthrough once?
It won't. In fact, it looks worse than DMCV in that regard.
most spastic camera I've ever goddamn seen
Anon, the world is on the brink of destruction. Take my hand, fight as an Einherjar!
Looks like shit. No wonder why it flopped. Should have been turn-based like the other games that are more popular than DMC.
Despite how janky it is, the combat is rather fun. Of course, there's always the joy of games like OTII as well!
Much better
I'm gonna call it even anon but goddamn this is bad too
Most people are pretty terrible at video games and just want to see their character do cool things. The only people it'll bother are the ones that bother to get to NG+ anyways.
>DMC games
>good gameplay
not the only difference. it's telling that you took a pic from a character who's doing a cutscene move. dmc has no cutscene moves. everything is under your control in combat, this is the major advantage true action games have.
>cutscene move
Nero's Devil Breaker moves, Judgement Cut End, and Dante's Judgement. And since this is an FFXVI thread. XVI has cutscene moves like in
keyed
>It's not a good game because it's not a real Final Fantasy
No one says this you strawmanning Black person. We have a problem with it because it's a single player action game not a Final Fantasy game. have a nice day
>No one says this you strawmanning Black person.
https://arch.b4k.co/_/search/text/%22real%20final%20fantasy%22/
Searching for posts that contain ‘"real final fantasy"’. 1084 results found.
>No one says this
>Then says it
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>write an entire game around summon monsters
>the earliest trailers show Ifrit and Phoenix using their distinctly fire-based powers to burn villages down
>take elemental affinities out of the game
Why does that matter if you can still burn and freeze things
The nintoddllers are making fun of us...
in exchange for no load times you have flickering shadows and pop in 10 feet from link and a lower average image quality. much lower. the tradeoffs we make
>redditbob
go back
>people are always like "turn based is outdated, FF can't do turn based anymore, you can't 'get away' with turn based nowadays"
>Pokemon exists
If pokemon didn't have the pokemon brand behind it, it wouldn't sell. The actual games are dogshit.
Pokemon's been turn based from the start. How come being turn based didn't kill its brand?
Because Gen 1 and Gen 2 were legitimately good handhelds games for the time, and the brand exploded in popularity due to the anime + trading card game + movies + games. It's the most profitable media franchise in the world.
Gamefreak in 2023 is one of the worst developers in the world. Pokemon games are currently rancid dogshit, they are legitimately horrible games. But they will still sell billions due to the Pokemon brand.
youre likely a zoomer so you dont remember or werent around for any of this.
>Because Gen 1 and Gen 2 were legitimately good handhelds games
So turn-based is good? Got it.
No one is saying turn-based can't be good. But back then it was much more popular, and today it is much less popular. And a good action game (like DMC3) has better gameplay than any turn based game that has ever been made, and that will never change.
>today it is much less popular
except for the cases of the franchises that have stayed turn-based their entire lifespans and remained more popular than games like DMC, like Pokemon and Dragon Quest where they are some of the largest brands in all of video games
>Dragon Quest is one of the largest brands in video games
Outside of Japan, Dragon Quest is tiny and barely sells. Your only example is Pokemon, which has dogshit games that only sell because of the brand.
Another example that proves you wrong is persona vs SMT. SMT has better turn-based combat than Persona, but people don't car and Persona sells 100x more because they are buying it for social links and romance.
>but people don't car and Persona sells 100x more because they are buying it for social links and romance.
And nobody is turned off from Persona being turned based. Persona 5 sold 8 million copies, and that's more than any KH or DMC game. All this started because of the moronic claim made in
>And nobody is turned off from Persona being turned based.
And nobody is buying Persona because it's turn based. You're obsessed with sales figures instead of caring about if a game is good or not. Making FF16 a DMC game isn't some sure-fire sales getter, it's a risky bet but they're making it because they like DMC. If you want them to pander with social links, romance, and pikachu just so you can have your precious turn based, lick my ass
>And nobody is buying Persona because it's turn based
It also means that being turn-based isn't something that's going to bottleneck sales.
>You're obsessed with sales figures instead of caring about if a game is good or not.
The subject matter is that FF would be dead if it remained turn-based which is wrong.
>Making FF16 a DMC game isn't some sure-fire sales getter
Then tell that to the people who claim otherwise.
>it's a risky bet but they're making it because they like DMC.
The people who like DMC can just play DMC.
>If you want them to pander with social links, romance, and pikachu just so you can have your precious turn based, lick my ass
Someone's uppity over coming to terms that turn-based isn't some franchise killer like
said it would be. Yakuza 7, Dragon Quest XI, and Deltarune don't need "social links, romance, and pikachu" to be successful. Why did does games do well? Or are you going to keep making excuses?
>yakuza 7
>deltarune
No one is buying those for the gameplay. They have bad gameplay by turn-based standards. In fact, the RPGs with the best turn-based gameplay actually tend to sell the worst, which is funny.
>No one is buying those for the gameplay.
Then why are these games popular Anon? How would a video game gain popularity if people couldn't find some enjoyment in the gameplay? It's almost as if
is full of shit.
>Then why are these games popular Anon?
Because Undertale has a huge fanbase. And no, the main appeal of Undertale isn't amazing turn-based combat. That's not why the fandom exploded.
But turn-based nearly killed FF according to
How come you can make all these excuses for all these franchise becoming popular despite being TB, yet TB (somehow) nearly killed FF?
>but some other person said some other thing
Okay? Argue with him then. Final Fantasy's brand lost appeal because 13 and 15 were horrible fricking games, and 12 (despite being a good game) wasn't designed for mass appeal.
Black person-homosexual, have you ever considered that you are a shitty judge of turn-based combat and what is good and bad?
Your autistic picks for
>better than Yak7
>better than deltarune
Are shit games.
have you ever considered that you are a shitty judge of turn-based combat and what is good and bad?
?t=19
This isn't good turn-based combat. The appeal of these games are the characters and music.
>you deal with enemy attacks with "shump" gameplay easier than Touhou 10 on easy
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>Argue with him then.
You aren't addressing any of the points being made. All these franchises are popular despite being turn-based. It isn't some deathknell that would bottleneck sales. The argument is that TB nearly killed FF. The counter argument is that all these series grew in popularity despite being TB. Some of these series, such as Undertale and Persona, are more successful than the game that FFXVI is trying to copy. One of these series, like Yakuza, saw success even when going the opposite route of FF. How come TB didn't kill these franchises like it nearly killed FF? Because it didn't. SE's just a mess that got lucky with XIV.
>oh but all of these games became popular because of reasons other than being TB
So fricking what? That applies to every video game and product. Even fricking action games need more than just gameplay to sell. Whether it's graphics, style, sex appeal, multiplayer, shilling, or celebrity endorsemen/involvement like slapping GRRM's name to Elden Ring. That's been true since the dawn of the video game industry or any entertainment medium.
Nor was anyone making the claim that TB games are the reason why these series are successfull. It's an argument that you made up because you can't counter the notion that TB isn't some series killer.
>The argument is that TB nearly killed FF.
That's your argument with that guy. I never said that. However, I do find it funny how your examples are always series that sell *despite* their mediocre gameplay.
ignored the rest of your wall of text
>ignored the rest of your wall of text
Yeah, because you can't disprove any of it.
>Yeah, because you can't disprove any of it.
Your arguments have constantly been shit and wrong. Let's skim your shit wall of text
>That applies to every video game and product.
Wrong, there's plenty of games that sell purely based on good gameplay despite lacking in every other area. Look at how Larian blew up with Divinity Original Sin
other than that, i dont care about your wall of text because youre arguing with some other poster who isn't here about an argument that i never made.
>Your arguments have constantly been shit and wrong
How
>Wrong, there's plenty of games that sell purely based on good gameplay despite lacking in every other area. Look at how Larian blew up with Divinity Original Sin
So now TB combat sells, why does it work for D:OS and not FF?
>So now TB combat sells
Youre arguing with some other poster who isn't here about an argument that i never made.
>How
also:
unmodded warband
map-painting games
total war
Do you even comprehend what this comment chain is about? My stance had been "TB doesn't kill games, look at all these games that are successful despite being TB" and questioning why all these series can gain popularity whereas FF somehow can't. Jesus, how many times do I have to repeat myself.
You keep responding to points that nobody has fricking made. You listed D:OS as an example of a popular TB game. There. It's done. I'm right since we both agree that TB doesn't kill games. This is fricking moronic.
>So fricking what? That applies to every video game and product. Even fricking action games need more than just gameplay to sell.
Dwarf Fortress
Factorio
Divinity Original Sin 1/2
>More then DMC or KH
Need proofs.
>KH3 sales
6.7 million
>DMCV sales
6.5 million
>Persona 5 sales
8 millin
Persona 5 = GTA 5 = Skyrim 5
and whats common theme with those games excluding the number 5?
casual slop
That too but my point is that they are getting milked and that's why profit margin is big.
Yet Final Fantasy somehow isn't? What do you call rhythm games, failed esports attempts, FF7 spinoffs, and a 16th mainline installment? Are you fricking moronic?
I'm not saying this disproves your point but P5 literally just hit 6.8 the 8 million is with Scramble and the dancing games so I wouldn't use a number like that.
Pokemon also sells for the same reason Persona does. THE GIRLS!
>Another example that proves you wrong is persona vs. SMT
yeah the fact that persona is an extremely popular series of turn based RPGs proves me wrong
people have been saying that shit for years and it was really more of a retroactive justification for continuing to be a fan of the series when the mainline series departed from turn-based in favor of FFXII's gambits, which the entire internet was making fun of for being a really dumb idea before release and the fanboys went "no you see they have to because-" and that's how this narrative that Final Fantasy NEEDS to stop being turn based came from.
>yeah the fact that persona is an extremely popular series of turn based RPGs proves me wrong
No one is buying Persona for the gameplay. SMT has better gameplay than Persona and sells 100x less because it doesn't have friend simulator and waifus. Persona is actually the worst example possible for your dumb argument because SMT exists.
>No one is buying Persona for the gameplay.
You realize that social links play a role in fusion which in turn aids with dungeon crawling and battles? You have played Persona, right? There's a gameplay reward for investing in S.Links which is why the system works well.
>You realize that social links play a role in fusion
Uhhh yeah, that's why Persona is so popular. Because romancing the waifus unlocks better fusion, lmfao. Every persona thread on any internet site is just waifu discussion.
>No one is buying Persona for the gameplay. SMT has better gameplay than Persona and sells 100x less because it doesn't have friend simulator and waifus
The dating sim parts is gameplay and people play it for that.
>The dating sim parts is gameplay
It's not turn-based combat. Dating sim and friendship simulator is something else entirely, barely qualifies as "gameplay", and it's the main appeal of PurseOwner.
And its still gameplay.
>DMC3 gameplay
HAHAHAHAHAAHHAH
DMC3 is one of the best videogames ever made. Zoomers disagree.
holy KEK
DMC-gays are this delusional
Dmc3 is the best action game ever, maybe NGB is arguably better. Which means those two games have the best combat ever put in a videogame. Not complicated.
>pokemon sell trillions because of "good gameplay"
lmfao, completely wrong. pokemon since X/Y are legit some of the worst games ever made.
OK, so. It's literally the best selling multimedia franchise in the world and it's a turn-based RPG. So is Dragon Quest and it's huge. I think a lot of people who follow this series nowadays and have commentary on how the games used to be don't actually know shit. They weren't even turn-based, they worked in real-time.
How come DMC isn't more popular? How come DMC hasn't broken 10 million in sales?
>How come DMC isn't more popular? How come DMC hasn't broken 10 million in sales?
Because it's a hardcore action series that has never tried for mass appeal. That being said, DMC5 has sold extremely well (I think over 6 million copies).
>hardcore
If it's so hardcore, then why aren't the enemies as aggressive as mobs in Souls games?
>
DMC3 on DMD is more difficult than any souls game, by a wide margin.
>DMC3
You can cheese DMD with Super Dante and still get S Ranks.
>you can turn on cheat codes and the game becomes easier
Insightful post, anon
also im pretty sure later versions of the game track ranks differently across costumes, but its been a while
>DMC5 has sold extremely well (over 6 million copies)
>Persona 5 did not sell well at over 8 million because...it just didn't okay!
>Persona 5 did not sell well
No one said this. You are mindbroken.
visual novels are not gameplay. they are visual novels.
Dating sims are gameplay.
>make turn-based Final Fantasy pokemon game
>doesn't sell as well as pokemon
Yeah because the games are what's popular about Pokemon.
They regularly sell 10-20 million copies
What more do you want?
Final Fantasy would kill for those sales
It's a sperg thread with some weird head-canon about what sells or doesn't sell and for what reasons.
Never read such moronic shit in my life. The new FF-gays are even worse than the old ones.
They would. Speaking of sales, I feel like FF16 really has to do well. I don't think the franchise can stand another 7 year wait for a completely new attempt at FF if FF16 isn't a huge success. It could still live on if it isn't, but I would think SE would seriously start to doubt the power of the brand if their best developer can't pull it off.
it's not like DMC you fricking moron.
those attacks are not real combos. they're long canned animations with no cancel frames.
it's like kingdom hearts but with even more cinematic and canned moves.
>they're long canned animations with no cancel frames.
The game has jump cancelling, and moves have cancelable frames.
not most of them. for instance that claw combo people were saying was an Ariel rave is really just one long scripted attack.
it's not DMC.
>Does it have gameplay as good as DMC games?
>>Yup.
???
Game's not even out yet
People buy DMC to feel like le epic devil hunter not for gameplay
I think FF16 doomposters are really in a pickle because they rarely post actual critiques of the gameplay. Their main complaints are actual completely divorced from the actual game.
>i don't like that it's called Final Fantasy
>i don't like the graphics
>i wanted it to be turn based
>the PS5 / sony sucks (i won't argue with this)
>I think FF16 doomposters are really in a pickle because they rarely post actual critiques of the gameplay.
Done here
At least DMCV is 60fps. Who would want to juggle sandbags at a cinematic 24fps? No wonder why FFXVI gets low views, yikes.
The last demo showed a 60fps mode. Also, stagger bar exists on larger enemies and bosses
The last presentation confirmed there will be 60fps performance.
Runs in 60fps.
Also coupled with a producer that has a whole decade of experience confronting audience concerns and just giving them concrete answers immediately. You can see the general shift from apathy/concern to hype with this latest panel. Probably some of the best PR for the game so far.
>Octopath 2 reveals a myopia of Square Enix that will be repeated in many future titles.
>Reader, who is the audience of games such as Octopath Traveler?
>“It would be those who enjoyed turn based RPG games such as during the 1980s and 1990s.”
>The battle gameplay of Octopath Traveler 1 and 2 are sublime, wonderful, and I cannot praise it enough. It is refreshing to an old format.
>But let us consider the perspective of Square Enix. The perspective of Square Enix is that there is little market interest in turn based battle systems.
>How do I know this? Well, Square Enix has said this on multiple occasions. All their big budget games, such as modern Final Fantasy, are abandoning the turn based battle system.
>If you are Square Enix and hold the premise that the market doesn’t like turn based battle systems, how do you process the sales success of games such as Octopath Traveler?
>Since Square Enix literally will not believe people enjoy turn based strategy, they are looking at something else. So we get…
>“…HD-2D.”
>“…eight travelers.”
>“…the stories.”
>“…the towns and NPCs.”
>The point is that Square Enix will believe people enjoyed the elements of Octopath Traveler they merely tolerated. And the elements of Octopath Traveler they did enjoy, such as the battle system, Square Enix cannot admit there is market interest in it.
>So Octopath Traveler 2 is the same exact game except with some quirks to the battle system.
>Should Octopath Traveler 2 disappoint in sales, I am sure Square Enix will conclude that its all due to the turn based battle system. So Octopath Traveler 3 will be 8 travelers, with shitty writing and shitty NPCs, but the game will be ‘action based’. This is how out of touch Square Enix is.
If FF16 sells well, will this end the debate? Nope, because look at Totk discussions. Pre-BotW zeldagays have been making a lot of their voices heard since yesterday.
webm reminds me of this
?t=255
I think this games gonna be kino.
There will be eternal debate anon, unless you decide to nuke Ganker.
The game looks great but it will suffer the same fate as XV. The enemies will be boring punching bags with terrible AI. Final fantasy will never solve this problem. Only Kingdom Hearts has with remind.
Nostalgic gays still lingers in past.
you made this thread yesterday, Barry
https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/632238849/#632238849
Why would barry make a thread saying FF16 is good?
He hates Nomura and Kingdom Hearts 2. I know this statement makes no fricking sense but its literally his logic.
This is an XVI-kun thread, learn the difference it could save your life.
>It's not a real Final Fantasy
What? Is this the new cope thing for this game now? They said the same thing about FFXV because it was too modern and weird, like how you're in a fancy car and going on roadtrips and camping, and the party is all guys.
Sorry, oldgays. The newbies are winning.
So who xvi-kun really is?
I am XIV-kun, my lady.
Whats the difference between you and XV-kun?
I
XVkun is Barry constantly defensive about ffxv and forspoken or luminous studio stuff and accusing every poster either SBK or Nathan.
XVI-kun i don't know yet but he's here everyday creating ffxvi threads either ends up raided by Barry or doomposters, or the thread goes into page 10.
You have my sword. I full intend to buy this game just to spite Barry.
At first im total skeptical about this game and this franchise might just go die, but knowing the teams (especially that capcom guy) my optimism restored. FFXVI might be the first and maybe the last FF (if they decide makes FFXVII to incompetent team) i excited about.
Also there's no point arguing with Barry, soon or later he will get btfo from all of this for sure.
>teams
>FFXII team from Matsuno
>DMC combat guy
>KH Tokyo Team from Nomura
This game is going to be kino.
>attempts to drag Nomura into this shit-show
For the record, no, this game has no Nomura in it whatsoever.
>DMC combat guy
One of over 15 battle planners, not "the" combat guy.
>Matsuno and XII
This is true, and a point against the game.
XVI won't change it's combat and we have no idea how XVII will play so I don't get the constant b***hing about TB vs real time, etc. Etc. I see some anons say they're mourning the series going this way when even Square probably doesn't have a fully planned out battle system for the next entry yet. It's strange honestly because I think it's one of the least interesting debates around this game especially since we've known about it's combat for almost three years now.
A lot of "fans" haven't paid attention to the series in ages is my only guess. No way anyone saw the Awakening trailer and thought "that's a command-based/turn-based combat system".
>no party
>character designs are ugly
>monster designs are ugly (including summons)
>shaky camera and chaotic battle presentation (same problem as XII continued onwards)
there's a lot of problems.
Then the game is not for you, simple as.
Agreed.
It's kinda funny, I remember having this same argument with my friend when FFXII but being on the side of "FF is only ATB or Turn based, frick this automated shit, and frick this weird MMO style shit." I'm a bit older now so I mostly feel "Yeah I just want to see another good Final Fantasy game come out before I die." Like frick it, make it a cart racer if that's what it takes for S-E to ship a good FF.
>poster count remains the same
XVIkun's thread always suffer this unless barry or doomposter raiding this thread.
Kino for sure but i don't expect major big success like ffxv sales. The difference between ffxv and ffxvi is ffxv was success in terms of sales because of hype not the game it self, while ffxvi offers more better product than ffxv but suffers in terms of hype. It's fair though, i just want good game not over-hypedshit game.
>Like frick it, make it a cart racer if that's what it takes for S-E to ship a good FF.
They tried that and they couldn't even get that right
It says everything for how fast this game got torpedoed by its shitty monetization that nobody even knows Ultros riding Chupon was added as the most perfect character combination.
Combat looks like a boring button masher with not much going on.
Will likely have to wait and see post release if its any good or not.
It's not looking good based on preview material though, SoP spoiled us
The only thing could ever top Nioh 2's combat is Nioh 3 and even that's not a sure thing. That game just can't be beat.
You're right, but I liked the final fantasy spin on the system
If I wanted to play DMC, I'd play DMC not Final Fantasy
Yes, because if I wanted to play DMC I'd play DMC. I'm looking for Final Fantasy which also happens to be a good game