Find a flaw

Find a flaw

POSIWID: The Purpose Of A System Is What It Does Shirt $21.68

Homeless People Are Sexy Shirt $21.68

POSIWID: The Purpose Of A System Is What It Does Shirt $21.68

  1. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >MMO
    here's your flaw

  2. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I don't play MMORPGs

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      best post right here

  3. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    healer has no gameplay

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      not all MMOs are FFXIV

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Heavensward Scholar was the most fun I ever had healing...

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Watching DPSissies struggle is the best gameplay.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      cause the game is shit, soraka in league of legends plays well

  4. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Better party:
    Healer that can also tank
    Healer that does damage
    Healer that buffs

  5. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    You could be doing more damage

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >I lost because the other DPS sucked
      where's the difference?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      monster hunter
      makes me long for the holy trinity

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >wants to turn monster hunter into MMOslop
        actually frick off.
        you already have the hunting horn and SnS equipped with heals, you dont need role-homosexualry in monster hunter

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          After Rise, there is a need for more method to the madness. Four people going at it is just a total clusterfrick now.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >not quad damage
      NGMI

  6. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    tank usually ends up doing the most damage

  7. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    two of the classes arent fun

  8. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    the flaw is you get games that go so rigidly into the trinity you get 0 interesting class skills literally only "tank gets enmity and defense cooldowns and maybe a stun" "dps doesn't get any cool abilities you get damage button damage button damage button damage button" and healers get "a single damage button and a bunch of samey heal buttons MAYBE a buff" bring back support classes with CC and buffs classes that are basically useless solo and NEED a group to even level

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Classes with CC as well as buff/debuff were phased out with the abilities sprinkled about the remaining trinity because they were far too niche. Effectively also unplayable solo which made dependence on other players even worse, but that was the style at the time anyway.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Effectively also unplayable solo which made dependence on other players even worse
        this is a bad thing in a MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER ONLINE GAME why?

        The flaw is that 99% of the playerbase just wants to do damage and not worry about anything else.

        >blames the players instead of the devs being homosexuals and not wanting to put in the effort of balancing interesting class skills
        nah shut the frick up zoomer

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >this is a bad thing in a MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER ONLINE GAME why?
          Because you're rarely playing in ideal conditions. it sucked being unable to progress beyond starter areas simply because you couldn't find a group. And those classes had it worse because they were effectively undesirable until the end game and occupied a party slot that could be filled far far better while leveling.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            the ideal condition is to force people to interact sorry that conflicts with some homosexuals "tanking/social anxieties" you signed up for an MMO the MMO should not become a singleplayer game because a small subset of braindead morons picked the wrong genre of game to play and are now crying.

            It doesn't matter what you do, most people will NEVER want to tank or heal. They want to the be the stabby murder-hobo, not the human shield or the weak homosexual in a dress.

            people would want to tank and heal if modern class design didn't literally rip away any and all interesting design from the roles. Of course no one wants to play a healer that just sits there with their thumb in their ass until damage comes out and then they can press 1 uninteresting "heal for X" button. Devs just don't want to balance anything interesting.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >the ideal condition is to force people to interact sorry that conflicts with some homosexuals "tanking/social anxieties" you signed up for an MMO the MMO should not become a singleplayer game because a small subset of braindead morons picked the wrong genre of game to play and are now crying.
              This is 100% correct in theory. Sometimes there just aren't enough players around. Imagine starting to play an MMORPG late and there's no one to actually group up with? Ironically, this is less of a problem today than it was 20+ years ago as player numbers are insane, but the need to play with others is nonexistent.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Sometimes there just aren't enough players around
                basically a non issue, if you are joining an mmo late you can ask people experienced players for help in game or communities outside of the game if you really can't find help. You might be behind sure but the experience of grouping up even if you're getting carried is a magical experience in old mmos. I don't think you should even start trying to compensate for lack of players until you're game is completely dead and even then I don't think you should change the mmo at all you should just build a singleplayer version something like DQX offline.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                That's a pretty optimistic take

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                You can get help playing basically any old niche mmo if you go looking bro. Like even on this website. Tons of boards with threads about old "dead" games that still have a tiny community with people that love to help new people see what they saw in games they loved when they were new. Its really magical to take a step back from modern slop and check out these games and the communities that still have passion for them.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >you can ask people experienced players for help
                ignored, blocked or called a homosexual noob then ignored and blocked
                >communities outside of the game
                join our discord, stay at least a day in read only mode, pass two evaluation interviews and never speak against numerous established cliques

                We do not live in anime mmo timeline anon, community is fricking garbage in the first place and that is the biggest problem with mmos.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          It doesn't matter what you do, most people will NEVER want to tank or heal. They want to the be the stabby murder-hobo, not the human shield or the weak homosexual in a dress.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            there's plenty of people who would try other classes simply because DPS gets stale. there's only a problem if the devs make healers or tanks the easy class for girl gamers and morons. as the result the DPS has an excuse to always blame others because his role requires skill. at this point this mindset is so entrenched that girls default to pick healer, morons default to pick tank and buttholes default to pick DPS, even if the skill requirement is the same. I think DPS is boring

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >there's plenty of people who would try other classes simply because DPS gets stale
              it helps when you can change class on the fly.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I think it sucks the souls out of an MMO when you can easily change core aspects of your character

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Considering you usually start classes from zero, there should be no reason why you can't just learn something else.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I think he means the aspect of permanent job roles adding more meaning to ones character and the value of other players you meet.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                yeah, this was an appeal of wow classic
                because you were so much more limited and inconvenienced, having a mage around to just spawn food or a portal had real practical value

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >permanent job roles adding more meaning to ones character
                Yeah I love having my entire character invalidated because of a balance patch or the new content tier not favoring my class

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                This is only a problem when raiding is the be-all and end-all of an MMO.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                No it isn’t pvp characters are just as vulnerable to getting “time to reroll frickboy”d

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >pvp gets affected
                >dungeons get affected
                >raids get affected
                ERP is unaffected, true. Fortunately nobody cares about xiv or second life.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                What's the difference between rolling a new character and leveling up and gearing new job?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Because tank classes are always shit from an aesthetic and intrinsic point of view. FFXIV is a shit game, but Dark Knight is so fricking cool that I went out of my way to play it, even if it is a tank. Give healers and tanks edgy classes and people will play them no problem.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Or how about making these cool classes not tanks or healer shit. Hate playing those gimmick shit roles for strangers.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >no one wants to play tank or healer due to shitty aesthetics
                >what if we gave them options with cooler, edgier themes?
                >nooooo make those dps classes I don't want to tank or heal
                Sounds like a personal problem.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              What games have you been playing where tanks have shit aesthetics? In XIV since you already mentioned it warriors are crazed blood ragers, and paladins are classic paladins, only gunbreakers are whatever. In WoW there are sword-and-board warriors, classic paladins, death knights with skulls and all that, druids for furries and baras, drunken style monks and edgy DH. Even in shit like lineage there are classic sword and board tanks, paladins and edgy dark elves with a panther companion and probably a light elf one, dodn't remember anything about them.
              And intrinsic value depends on the balance. In Wow you could pull a shitton of mobs and aoe all of them even before they completely casualized levelling.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Yeah, I should've proofread what I typed, meant to tank AND healers usually have shit aesthetics, healers more so. And I meant to say extrinsic, not intrinsic. Rough morning for me.
                Anyway, I think giving cooler aesthetics to tanks and healers would help a lot, but the classes are inherently unpopular because they are the foundations for a successful dungeon run or raid. A good tank or healer can carry shit DPS, but a good DPS carry a shitty tank or healer is next to impossible (though it can still happen sometimes).

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >ff14
              >cool
              I think you're part of that homosexual category he mentioned

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >he says while posting a screenshot from a game where hybrids and the CC-specialist class were great at soloing.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Effectively also unplayable solo
        bards and enchanters were two of the best solo classes in everquest.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Not only what

        >he says while posting a screenshot from a game where hybrids and the CC-specialist class were great at soloing.

        and

        >Effectively also unplayable solo
        bards and enchanters were two of the best solo classes in everquest.

        said, but they were also the easiest classes to get groups with.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The flaw is that 99% of the playerbase just wants to do damage and not worry about anything else.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Find a flaw
        The players.

        >the playerbase

        The answer is so obvious that no one wants to accept it. You either need to cater to the casuals, which means that every class is boring. Or to the hardcores, who are a niche audience, and can't support a Triple-Ayyy production.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        The problem is that DPS is the only class with a metric where you can be “good” at it
        Tanks and healers are basically interchangeable with any other tank/healer as long as you “don’t lose” they’re good enough.

  9. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    xp is gained by killing, so DPS is the only reasonable choice

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      raids are typically done at max level, so you can equip the raiding gear. But what do you know? you're a dumb frick DPS who can barely manage his rotation and breathe at the same time

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Stick to WoW, raids fricking suck in MMOs, they only work because the general gameplay design in the open world is trash. Defending raids is literally defending shit.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          [...]
          harsh truth is raids were always reserved for no life kings who treated the game as their job

          the topic is on the MMO trinity. if you need tanks and healers for dungeons and levelling, you're trash, ie. DPStard

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        DPS is where the morons go.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Stick to WoW, raids fricking suck in MMOs, they only work because the general gameplay design in the open world is trash. Defending raids is literally defending shit.

        harsh truth is raids were always reserved for no life kings who treated the game as their job

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Raiding is the worst part of MMOs

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >raids are typically done at max level
        >"you're not allowed to try this content until you can steamroll it"
        tourist cancer like you are exactly who killed the genre

  10. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I don't like the definitions because the names give an idea that limits creativity.
    Tanks soak up damage, healers remove it.
    Should be renamed to:
    "Damage preventer, Damage Dealer, Mistake Reverser"

    So the mission of a tank is to just prevent the rest of the party from taking damage. There can be more ways to do it than just "soaking up damage". How about a light armor, dodge based tank class that just... never takes damage because you dodge everything? Making it high risk, high reward. (You still have an insanely high HP pool).
    Or take the Illisionist from Dragon's Dogma 2... also a tank. By virtue of placing illusions that take on aggro, even though the caster himself is very squishy.

    A healer could then maybe also be a "time mage" that can reverse time in certain places, i.e. "rewind a big AoE attack", as well as all the damage done (and positioning of the party) so everyone gets a 2nd attempt to dodge it. Or slow down attack animations to make dodging easier. Instead of just reversing damage after it occured, you can give the rest of the team an easier way to not take damage in the first place even if they are actively being targeted. Just actions that give players an "undo" button for whatever problem their own mistakes caused.

    Also: if you have job switching like FF14 you shouldn't strive for perfect balance, which is FF14's flaw... a class can be more optimal for some content than others as long as every class is optimal for the equal amount of content overall. This would also encourage players to multiclass in the first place. Embrace less balance in favor of more interesting mechanics as long as it leads to more fun.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I'm not reading all that

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Frick unique mechanics, just give me bars that go down in different patterns and let me fill them back up.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I'll agree that "Tank" feels like a misnomer. When I think of tanks, I imagine a heavily armored vehicle that fires high-explosive rounds that can destroy just about whatever they hit, not a meatshield that hits like a wet blanket..

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I respect the effort at outside the box thinking, these are some solid ideas. Alas, they're wasted here. Maybe try /tg/?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The issue with mage cc based tanking is that it doesn't play well with healers. Maybe give them a passive where overhealing restores their mana?

  11. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    upside down pedo pyramid

  12. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    It lacks the "support" addition. Rifts was alot of fun before they gutted the crazy builds.

  13. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Human element is the flaw. If all three were equally played there would be no problem.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      this is why games just require fewer tanks and healers to play the game. it's a very easily fixed flaw.

  14. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The requirement to having a tank, healer, and dps for regular dungeon content is fricking stupid.

    Have Tank be able to self-sustain, have healer have some supporting buffs instead of just healing, and have dps have crowd control.

    They all can dps btw, just the actual dps has ways to increase their own dps through self-buffing/conditionals.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Have Tank be able to self-sustain, have healer have some supporting buffs instead of just healing, and have dps have crowd control.
      Yeah, that's what Guild Wars has done. Problem is you cannot keep designing your content like you still have a trinity when you don't. Also, some players are apparently incapable of keeping themselves alive forcing devs to effectively implement healbots in a system they cannot exist in.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Funny how all threads like this seems to suggest that Guild Wars did everything right yet no one mentions that game.

        GW2 sucks bro

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Yeah, that's what Guild Wars has done
        In the past. Sure.
        >Everyone shits out perma 25might, alac or quickness and has infinite boon uptime.
        >balance game around it
        Bravo, Anet. Fricking shitass game that is good for like, one patch every blue moon and they ruin it with no remorse.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      people like to shit on wow for having a rigid trinity but it has all of those things you said, and has for well over 10 years now

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        People shit on WoW because they support gays, transgender, and mythic+ players.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          and that is bad why?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Because I fricking said so.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            no idea what anon's problem is. why wouldn't blizzard support their own customers

  15. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >mfw MMORPGs always seem focused on having more damage classes than all others
    Just look at FF14 as a more recent example. It's hilarious how many BIG DAMAGE variants one can come up with compared to four tanks and four healers.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Thats because damage dealers are popular because they have the least responsibility.

  16. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Only 3 roles for dumb ass normalgay Black folk instead of the superior 6 or 7 roles.

  17. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    there should be no such thing as healers and tanks
    healing should be your own responsibility with healing potions and not taking damage
    combat should be about immobilizing and stunning enemies with flawless combos like in fighting games
    the holy trinity is garbage

  18. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I like to play Healer or Tank.

    DPS is for big homo.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      My homie

  19. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    there isn't one, it provides the most variety in gameplay styles you can achieve without getting into absurd territory

  20. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I'm reminded a perfect MMORPG, one focused on community, already exists and not enough people play it.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I would play it if I could be a knight slaying dragons

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >perfect MMO
      >peak gameplay is camping a gate and wait for a miner to warp in

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      eve is the kind of game autists either thrive or find it absolutely impenetrable depending on what kind of autist they are. social aspect is insane, but most people are second class citizens.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Albion Online is the same game with actual gameplay, less bullshit and 10 times the playerbase. There's no reason to play Eve anymore.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Albion Online is the same game but for ADHD riddled ASShomosexualS players.
        FTFY

  21. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The flaw is mostly that for every tank/heal/support role you have 3 melee classes each, making a huge imbalance in what classes are available at a given time, especially considering that most people want to play unga-bungah-big-damage classes to compensate their micro penis.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      flaw is that tank is too good

  22. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Healers ruin these games, MMOs would be better off with only DPS classes.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Those fricking healers. They need to be punished. Severely.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      wildstar is dead, anon, it's time to let go

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Wildstar had a comically troubled development. Damn shame.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >boobgate
          >the SJWs bullied the devs into reducing character breast size
          Fricking hell, don't remind me of this

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Didn't Kit Brinny or whatever was her name ended with with BIGGER breasts after that?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      DPS is the brainlet normie class. If you main DPS, I respect you less. DPS brainlets are why MMO's are fricking dogshit. They just want to hop in a dungeon finder, get placed into a team, stack crit and leave. Personally, I think they should all be killed.

      t. Tank, and sometimes healer if the game has decent enough PVP.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Healers slow the game down to a crawl, PvP is especially awful due to it becoming a battle of attrition. Take WoW for example, arenas/bgs with only DPS classes are really quick and fun, but as soon as you introduce healers into the mix every battle becomes a tedious grind. PvE is also better without dedicated healers as designers doesn't have to put unavoidable damage into every fight so healers can play their little islotated game of HP bar whack 'a mole. The games would also be better without the shitty conventional aggro system that makes every enemy behave like a brainless moron attacking the tank all the time, MMOs need to progress past all this shit.

  23. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Are there any MMOs with frontline battlepriests aside from DDO?
    I know paladins are pretty common but they're typically treated more like spellblades than anything

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Are there any MMOs with frontline battlepriests aside from DDO?
      warhammer online had warrior priests who were textbook example of that. also known as "fear and terror of t1 pvp".

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I will forever kick myself for missing out on AoR

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        god i miss this game so much
        the private server just isnt the same

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      What the frick do you mean by that?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      LotRO's Captain is close enough
      Heavy armoured party buffer/healer/pet class hybrid that fights with two handers, absolute chad class

  24. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Like how it has to clarify that dps is damage.

  25. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Theres nothing wrong with it. The roles themselves need have interesting mechanics that adhere to the fantasy and identity of holding back a horde of ogres single-handedly, dealing ridicuolus damage while evading attacks and finally buffing, restoring health or bringing the entire party back from the brink with a well timed spell or ressurection. That, or the classes can be simple, but you are constantly thrown into new and interesting scenarios. Preferably both. Unfortunately, all MMOs, with FF14 being a crown example had both and threw both away for streamlined samey jobs and corridor dungeon design.

  26. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I wish DPS was melee
    In most MMOs, the optimal DPS is usually ranged (archer or mage). These classes main attribute should be their range, imagine giving them the best DPS on top of that how fricking stupid this shit is, all that to pander to moronic normies because these classes are the most popular they should be made the strongest

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      why do you care about what is meta? you aren't a world first clearer and you arent a 99 parser. pretty much every mmorpg is designed where every instance can be cleared with even the worst classes. i hate parse culture and morons that are adamant that they need to copy the top 0.1% for their shitty weekly guild raid.
      i cant think of an mmorpg where all the melee dps suck

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Often you won't get into instance groups if you're not meta enough, or you get mowed down in PVP by metagays.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          melee classes usually do really well in pvp of that's what you're talking about, rogue in wow has been the undisputed best pvp class since wow released

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Melee can't as easily switch targets so it'll always be subpar for anything that isn't trying to gank a single boss, and even then you hope the boss doesn't have some kind of AOE or chain attack that keeps the tank from protecting you

  27. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Tank-healer-damage dealer trinity system isn't bad in of itself. What's bad is how it's commonly implemented.
    First of all, leveling is practically always braindead easy. You're almost never in the danger of dying. In these situations, playing a damage dealer is always the optimal choice, as damage dealers do more damage and therefore kill things faster. If things were different, enemies were more dangerous, you could have a system where tanks and healers have their own advantages via much greater survivability, while damage dealers would be glass cannon high risk high reward oriented. However, since most "casual" players pick damage dealer role, that would cause massive issues.
    Another issue is asymmetry between group composition of parties and raids. You want one healer and one tank per party. In raids, the number of healers is generally equivalent to the number of healers in parties, while tanks, on the other hand, are in much lesser demand. You want one, maybe two, but rarely more than that, tanks. So if you play a tank, you have an easy time finding party content but hard time finding raid content. And the other way around, too, if you're a non-tank, your groups will struggle to find tanks for party content but not have to worry about finding one for raid content. Another issue here is how games handle tanking in raids. You usually have a main tank, and an off-tank Playing main tank feels great. Playing an off-tank feels horrible. It's the least fun role in the game - you taunt off main tank sometimes, maybe pick up some adds or soak, but that's about it. Raid content would need to be drastically different than it currently is design-wise to support equal amount of tanks in raids as it does in party content. Instead of always fighting one big monster, you would need more raid encounters that are more like pitched battles, fighting numerous enemies at once, with tanks each having their own tanking target - think of something like Four Horsemen.

  28. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The problem is that the presence of a strict trinity implies that the game focuses entirely on instanced PvE autism, where classes are nothing more than numbers, a rotation and the color of their spells.

  29. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Find a flaw
    One offline and you can't play
    All round job > holy shitnity

  30. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Healer
    There is your flaw.

  31. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >a 200 billion dollar investment just to make a fancy software to encapsulate what is literally essentially a game of rock-paper-scissor
    lol

  32. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The trinity means that in games where 100% of the gameplay is about killing shit, the essential classes don't get to kill shit.

  33. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >does all three at the same time

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Thrall is a fricking cuck though

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        nah, not in WC3 and Hots

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Definitely not in Warcraft Adventures.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Definitely not in Warcraft Adventures.

          wrong link

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            If this game had actually released I feel like Metzen would have been more invested into the lore.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Why is Turalyon all Scottish and painted and shit?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Zul'Jin is an incredibly gay shop keeper.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >still no tanking class for shaman in wow
      it wouldn't even be that hard to implement, just make them use shields and make pic related apply to all their attacks

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        SoD had a tank shaman but it's only competent at AoE tanking.

  34. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The trinity only "works" via a contrivance. Without the moronic Aggro mechanic, the Tank does not function period.
    Without the Tank having absurd health/defense and Aggro, the healer can not keep the Tank alive.
    Without both of them doing an extremely simple and moronic routine, the extremely simplified role of DPS can not freely whittle enemies down.

    Remove Aggro and the shitty system falls apart, but then opens up actual gameplay variety. Classes and roles with more freedom instead of just propping up the most nonsensical bullshit side-minigame of two players and the boss playing grabass on the side while the rest mindlessly slap the boss's ass.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The regular aggro system is still 100 times better than random aggro, where the bosses spaz the frick out and run between players. Nobody likes that and nobody would ever want that.

  35. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Replace obligatory party tanks with an objective you have to protect. Make it a tower defense type of thing where the tower follows the party around. The party is unified by this one thing, and that's what enemies target most of the time. It's got a lot of health and heals over time, so even a team of nothing but damage dealers can defend it by killing everything fast enough. But it also has attacks of its own if well protected, so those who want to focus on defending and supporting it get backup damage to make up for it. Everyone can contribute in their own preferred ways without requiring anyone to take on specific roles because all those roles are accounted for. It even facilitates variable party sizes.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >everything becomes an escort mission but worse
      I'm glad you don't make video games.

  36. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    XIVgays should be gassed along with their shit fricking game

  37. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The main problem with whole trinity is how it kills variety and forces players to engage in style they usually don't want to experience. Personally, I really like healing and support in dungeons but many people don't, likewise, acting as tank is often considered "boring" by many players. At the same time, it also kills class variety as any "hybrid" is automatically at disadvantage due to not being as good in given role as "pure" class. Some sort of "battle priest" or "paladin" is automatically worse healer than pure "priest" and worse tank than pure "warrior" while any mmo, especially in times of rapid data mining and minmaxing being easier than ever, quickly gets dominated by "optimal" strategies and minmaxing powergamers.

  38. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Which modern MMO will let me comfortably play healer or support and help random people in small, 5-man dungeon runs?

    Please don't say FF or WoW, I don't want to pay monthly subs (one time payment is fine).

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Guild Wars 2 and Elder Scrolls Online are the only other popular mmos

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      play with dolls in your room

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        It's not the same when they don't talk back.

        Guild Wars 2 and Elder Scrolls Online are the only other popular mmos

        GW2 is good game and I already have over 1k hours in it since release but it's not "traditional" in a sense that you don't have strict roles like healer. TESO was fun when I played it but lacks in classes variety and thus have basically only one option for healer. No idea why they decide to have only 3 classes.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      maybe try making the most out of your sub time so you don't have to keep resubbing if you don't want to keep playing?
      ffxiv is pretty forgiving in how there's virtually no fomo

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Players from the partyfinder don't talk. They're strangers and not your friends. They don't care about you playing the undesirable classes.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I don't like the very idea of subs by how they forces fomo-like experience by its own nature - when you pay for 30x24h, you feel compelled to play as much as possible instead of comfortable 1-2h per day or from time to time. When I played TESO, I would play only when I wanted to, happily enjoying the game. When I played, briefly, WoW, I felt bad about "wasting" paid hours. I, however, refused to submit completely, my school friend didn't and ended up with severe addiction as a result, ignoring absolutely everything not related to game and even counting money in wow subs (like new GPU being "6 wow subs worth" and so on).

        I hate subs systems since then (I don't even have Netflix or similar shit, the trauma is too big).

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I never said anything about subs but I get what you mean.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >I don't like the very idea of subs by how they forces fomo-like experience by its own nature - when you pay for 30x24h, you feel compelled to play as much as possible instead of comfortable 1-2h per day or from time to time.
          That's why you make that decision before hand give yourself clear goals of what you want to do. Like I will sub to XIV to see what the new dungeons and classes. I don't sub for the live service aspects, so when I don't unsub its not an issue.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      City of Heroes. You can also be an actual support because healing is the worst type of support.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Dark/Dark defender
        >Dark/Dark controller
        The greatest "healers" ever conceived.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      FFXIV free trial for the first 200 to 300 hours

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >no PMs even if someone messages you first
        >no guilds
        >no storage
        >no marketboard
        >no PvP
        >no created parties
        >no proper triple triad tournaments

        XIV's a singleplayer game most of the time anyway but that free trial strips out the social element entirely

  39. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The trinity formed because it was often the optimal strategy in party based games. The issue is that it is now the ONLY strategy in party based games. Instead of balancing a game around free-form party composition where everyone does what they want, you have one tank, one healer, and everyone else does damage. That's it, besides bigger parties where it might require you bring two tanks and healers. Just let people do what they want. Optimal strategies will be adopted for high level play, but forcing it at all levels is just not fun.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Instead of balancing a game around free-form party composition where everyone does what they want
      WoW and FFXIV have class agnostic dungeons, and guess what, they fricking suck. Designing content with no guarantees means that everything has to be designed with whatever baseline universal abilities players will have access to, regardless of their class. Alternatively, it just ends up being a "don't stand in the danger circle" dungeon.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >don't stand in the danger circle
        because tank and spank fights are so riveting

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Stop being moronic.

          Your takeaway seems to be that removing the trinity is bad, using those dungeons as an example. What you don't realize is that those dungeons show you exactly what's wrong with balancing your game exclusively around the trinity, and how things instantly fall apart the moment you try giving players any actual freedom. "Just stick to your role."

          No, my point is that you need some sort of structure that designers can work around. You can't expect any sort of interesting content when the people making the content have to design it around party potentially not having a healer, debuffer, tank or cleanser.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Honestly I think it'd add interest to add challenges that just require you to have one guy with one specific thing.
            Bring a rogue to lockpick this or it'll be a nightmare or something, like yeah it's a drag but that's the shit that immerses you, working around inconvenient shit with teamwork

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              I'll agree with you, if the game and dungeons are designed like old-school MMOs, where they were apart of the world and not instanced content. Otherwise, most parties, especially pugs, will just not do the content unless they have the class to unlock the easy route, like rogue in your example.

              You can actually, you just need to design it over objectives and not individual class mechanics. morons at fricking bungie managed to do it.

              I know you're not trying to compare Destiny, to a traditional MMO, please tell me you're not that stupid.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >especially pugs, will just not do the content unless they have the class to unlock the easy route, like rogue in your example.
                That's not necessarily a bad thing, as it gives super-special routes to super-special classes. Makes it more special than DPS Class A and DPS Class B.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Again, that would only work if it was designed like an school MMO. If it was designed like modern MMOs, then people would just not do the dungeon unless they had the class that opened the alternate route in the party.

                Destiny dungeons and raids are absolutely comparable to mmos though, especially mmos now where everything is a fricking instance. You absolutely can make raids and dungeons class agnostic without resorting to colored circle ddr, you just need to make them into puzzles.

                Modern "MMOs" are shit, so that's not a saying much in Destiny favour. The classes in Destiny are also just a couple of abilities, then don't have entire gear, stats and mechanics that are designed around them. Everyone class in Destiny can run, jump, sprint, slide, throw grenades, melee and have a projectile weapon. Designing content when the only thing you have to worry about is damager numbers, is far easier than designing content where a party make not have a class that is crucial to dealing with a specific mechanic in a raid.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Once again that is the fricking point. You don't need to design around numbers vomit, class identity etc to make challenging encounters in raids or any other deliberately organized content of newage mmos.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                moron.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Destiny dungeons and raids are absolutely comparable to mmos though, especially mmos now where everything is a fricking instance. You absolutely can make raids and dungeons class agnostic without resorting to colored circle ddr, you just need to make them into puzzles.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            You can actually, you just need to design it over objectives and not individual class mechanics. morons at fricking bungie managed to do it.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Your takeaway seems to be that removing the trinity is bad, using those dungeons as an example. What you don't realize is that those dungeons show you exactly what's wrong with balancing your game exclusively around the trinity, and how things instantly fall apart the moment you try giving players any actual freedom. "Just stick to your role."

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I always liked DND take on party composition more
      >martials are both tanks and top dps
      >rouges are skill monkeys with some middling dps
      >clerics are buffbot tanks
      >mages are weak and useless for the most part but they have powers to turn unwinnable fight winnable

      trinity is only a thing these days because games enforce with mechanics or grouping tools not because it's always optimal.

  40. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The flaw in the game design is unless there is a timer on the encounter the DPS is fundamentally unecessary, it just serves to make the combat end sooner and not be boring. Supports and tanks can win anything by attrition.
    See also competitive games with these roles like mobas, overwatch, etc. Whenever someone finds a sustain strategy it is just unbeatable and the game is solved until it gets patched. The safest and surest way to win is always the best way, even if that entails bleeding out the opponent very very slowly.

  41. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Find a flaw
    Caduceus instead of correct Rod of Asclepius.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Finally someone pointed it out. This is one of those major ultimate totally Americas fault things.
      Ambulances have them because Hermes is a swift deliverer of things and they're an emergency vehicle. It's a glorified get out of the way motherfricker symbol in that use.

      It doesn't mean healing, that's the one-snake staff which is used at hospitals.
      Amerifats fricked it all up.

  42. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I bring my own tank (overheads) and healer (tuna)

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      *dscimmys you*
      What now big boy?

  43. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Replace DPS with buffer

  44. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    How did PSO1 manage to be an mmo without this 24 years ago and why did no one try and replicate it?

  45. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    XI did it right with hard supports like Bard and Geomancer whose sole purpose through most of the game is to just support and buff/debuff. No other MMO has done it aswell as XI and none will ever be able to replicate it.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >i want to be afk and get carried because nobody wants to play glorified buffbot

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        bard was the busiest class in the game for like a decade.

  46. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >play healer in PvP
    >killing me becomes the main objective
    >tank bros using their CC to protect me
    >DPS cucks seething when I undo all their damage
    Maybe quit playing these lame PvE MMORPGs like WoW or FF14.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      PvP's the only time XIV is remotely fun

  47. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I don’t respect dps players.
    simple as.

  48. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The trinity is at its best when you change healer to support (which includes healing but is not limited to it) and make it a sliding scale instead of an either/or thing.

  49. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Anything that can alter the terrain. What's the healer going to do if they're boxed inside a sudden corridor?

  50. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Dumb Peasant Scum are complaining about queue times again

  51. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The trinity is a flawed solution to a limited premise. Enemies in dungeons and raids should not just be standing idly or patrolling passively even when they're in direct line of sight to you. If enemies were more realistic or more engaging, then a fourth role would naturally arise - crowd control.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Did you not read the thread or play EQ? CC classes were a thing, they just got split and had their abilities distributed between the traditional trinity classes. In fact, if my memory serves me right, EQ also had a class for pulling/gathering mobs.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Do the enemies in EQ also just either stand idly or patrol passively, even if they're in direct line of sight to you? I'm thinking the moment your party or group enters a dungeon or raid or otherwise alerts the enemy to your whereabouts, all of them start immediately heading towards that location.

  52. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Cope tropes.
    >Tank: Painbawd.
    >Healer: Carebawd
    >DPS: Useless protagonist.

  53. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    it relies on the enemies being brainless, affected by taunts and focusing their effort on something that's neither real danger or weak spot like they should

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      This is by far one of the most moronic complaints about MMO combat
      I could get the exact same gameplay by just giving tanks “if you don’t attack me within X seconds I do a gazillion damage”

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        you could, but no one does that
        so every enemy you ever fight is a mindless swarm
        positioning doesn't mean shit, you don't need to hide your casters behind the tanks to protect them, you never use some sort of cover or terrain advantage, they can stand anywhere their please and not be touched as long as the tank keeps pressing the button
        and solely focus on pressing their buttons when the timeout runs out
        I get it it's probably a necessary compromise for a fast-paced multiplayer game, but doesn't mean that's 'good'

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >they can stand anywhere their please and not be touched as long as the tank keeps pressing the button
          That is literally not how any MMO works all of them have “boss vomits out moves everyone has to dodge and if the tank dies he also starts killing you with his undodgeable attacks

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            wasn't really talking about bosses, but there's plenty of 'regular' enemies on the way to them
            bosses have their own issues, like when they often just do their own song and dance routine with aoes ranged attacks, turning invincible and summoning adds etc totally on their own no matter what players are doing or just based on their HP bar % but that's not really related to trinity
            But also them solely focusing on the tank and not the guy that actually hurts them is pretty dumb of them
            I mean OP challenged me to nitpick, to find a flaw
            and I would say "enemies need to be dumb" is one. Doesn't really mean the whole system is irredeemably bad or can't be fun just because it's not absolutely flawless

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >But also them solely focusing on the tank and not the guy that actually hurts them is pretty dumb of them
              It’s an AI no matter what and they want the AI to attack the tank for the purpose of game mechanics. Would the game magically be better if instead of a direct threat system tanks “threat” would be that if the enemy stops attacking them they take a shitload of damage, ensuring that the enemy AI calculates that they need to keep attacking the tank? It’s the exact same result.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >It’s an AI no matter what and they want the AI to attack the tank for the purpose of game mechanics.
                yes, which means it has to act like a dumb frick taking an obvious bait every single time and try to chew on a steel wall, and not to get rid of a guy in pajamas that's actually doing the hurting asap.
                If it's handled by taunt or some delayed damage thing it doesn't really matter, as you said it's the same result, but it is an inherent flaw of the system that none of the enemies can act with their own best interest in mind. An acceptable compromise, probably, yeah, but still a 'flaw'. Am I nitpicking? Maybe, but that's the point of this tread is it not?

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I think you don’t understand what I’m saying. If the AI is attacking the tank because it will be punished if it doesn’t then it IS acting in its best interest. But it also makes zero difference; at the end of the day it’s still doing an aggro calculation.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >at the end of the day it’s still doing an aggro calculation
                yes, and this IS a flaw. It is not allowed to be smart, to spread out and even in your hypothetical 'punishing tank' scenario do just enough damage to tank to not trigger the response but also to harass the dps, I mean how is "you can't have the AI be too smart" not a flaw? Even if its an unavoidable one?

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I designed my tank classes so that the calculation always favors continuously attacking the tank because that’s what I want the boss to do. Any attempt at spreading out damage=trigger

  54. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    healer is the only class where I feel like I'm responding to what the boss does lol, tank and dps in most games are just playing solitaire.

  55. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    It's a problem when the games lean too heavily on it to the point where nobody else can afford to take a hit and shit like tanks and healers doing zero damage.

    In the old good ones the roles were less binary. They also had support, cc and debuff focused classes.

  56. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I haven't played a fun tank since Neverwinter's barbarian

  57. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    DPS isn't reactive enough and in most cases is just botting through the same one-two-three rotation until either the tank or the healer fricks up and gets you killed

  58. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Healer is boring so queue times are longer for everyone looking for one and dps is the most fun so queue times are longer for them. Having "roles" or "classes" is moronic and pointlessly restrictive. It's better for everyone to start as a blank slate and then as you progress over the game each player begins to specialise in dozens of niches and combinations of niches, instead of just three.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      You are wrong, healers are far more prevalent than tanks. Its easier to find a healer and much harder to find a tank, because tanking is a lot more responsibility.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Depends on the game. However in every game the DPS role always has the longest queue times and that should tell you everything you need to know. DPS is the most fun, most players want to be the ones doing damage, so games should be built primarily around that. Tanking and healing are both moronic concepts that do nothing but pad out the game time with moments where you're doing nothing but standing there doing your rotation over and over. Mitigating damage should be focused around avoiding damage in the first place and it should require good timing, whether it's a block or a dodge. Having support/utility skills are good but they shouldn't be attatched to one role and they should never involve healing.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >doing nothing but standing there doing your rotation over and over.
          Anon that describes every ranged DPS

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Because they have healers to keep them healthy and tanks to make sure they never have to avoid damage, this gives them the ability to just stand there and do rotations over and over again. Remove those things and they have to actually use skill and reaction to avoid damage and maintain dps at the same time.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              If it were divided into melee DPS that takes the attention (or else the enemy gets mauled), ranged DPS that mindlessly rotates, and a buffer, the trinity would more-or-less be the same. I think you might just be looking for GW2.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Melee DPS would have to avoid melee damage, ranged DPS would have to avoid ranged damage. Guild Wars 2 tried but they still have a trinity because while every class can heal tank or dps certain subclasses are objectively the best at healing tanking or damaging.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Why wouldn't the melee DPS have to avoid ranged damage? Ranged enemies would be targeting their most immediate threat.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >that should tell you everything you need to know
          DPS requires the least brainpower so normalgays are attracted to it, I know.
          >Mitigating damage should be focused around avoiding damage in the first place
          Also yes, that's how tanking works. You have your damage reduction CDs and external damage reduction CDs and you have to use them as efficiently as possible.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            DPS is the hardest role in most MMOs because you can do your job poorly whereas tanks/healers are more of a yes/no binary

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >DPS is the hardest role in most MMOs
              You do not play MMOs.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                What’s your “parse” for a good or bad tank?
                >inb4 I-uh if the party LOSES
                At high levels in MMO as long as the tank knows the fight his input doesn’t matter much, it comes down to DPS playing efficiently to beat the rage timer

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Damage mitigated (or prevented wholesale) and damage output. Everybody does damage, DPS just does it on a macro.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >damage mitigated
                Healers job as much as the tank; no matter how good you are the healer has to keep you alive and that’s very easy
                >damage dealt
                Tanks have very simple rotations and difference in damage based on skill is minuscule

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Healers job as much as the tank; no matter how good you are the healer has to keep you alive and that’s very easy
                Speaking from LOTRO, the healer does not have to babysit the tank, and the three main tanks are either capable of self-sustain or can heal others.
                >Tanks have very simple rotations and difference in damage based on skill is minuscule
                Again, this depends on the game. DPS rotations are not complicated, and if you can afford to build damage into a tank based on skill in handling cooldowns, that's a skill I'd measure for tank performance.

  59. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Tank is boring
    Dps is moronic
    Healer is a bawd

  60. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    There is none, every autist who claims there is is a total moron who doesn't understand that most games rune on the principle of the trinity for gameplay.

    All you you need to understand is simply
    >DPS = Progress towards win goal
    >Healing = Factor against losing
    >Tank = Navigation (management over black swan events occurring within the parameters of the two other concepts)

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      There is absolutely zero reason why healing has to exist in a game. It's an utterly pointless mechanic. If the tank isn't enough to prevent the team from dying without being healed then the enemies can have their damage reduced. Healing adds nothing of value and support classes should be fully focused on creative utility.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Healing is fun, it's there for skill capped players

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Healing is boring as shit and serves no functional purpose

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        When you snip off one part of the trinity it is simply allocated to another role.

        Lets use Mario as an example. In Mario getting to the flag pole against the time limit is DPS. Jumping is ultimately your healing, as jumping allows you to deflect the threats of falling into a pit or getting hit by an enemy.

        A tanks role in the game would ultimately be your ability to navigate the level, as well as utilize items like coins to gain extra lives, or powerups.

        Progression, Avoidance, Management all placed into a single role as Mario.

        The MMO breaks down these roles into separate classes to ensure team work.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Jumping is ultimately your healing, as jumping allows you to deflect the threats of falling into a pit or getting hit by an enemy.
          That would make it tanking. Healers don't prevent damage, they undo it.
          >A tanks role in the game would ultimately be your ability to navigate the level, as well as utilize items like coins to gain extra lives, or powerups.
          This would the support class, which I have no issues with. As long as they can't heal.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Prevention and Repair are the same thing.
            >This would be a support class
            A support class such as a buffer or debuffer is basically another form of tank that focuses on the inner rpg workings of control rather than factoring in the "damage routes" of aggro.

            The reason they're often weeded out or baked into other classes is because this mode of control makes for less entertaining game play compared to the tank.

            The thing about a tank is its tool set of "control" is very dependent on the basic rules the game provides where as DPS and healing are far more straightforward.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >Prevention and Repair are the same thing.
              No they're not, one is proactive the other is reactive. Any ape can see "oh health is low time to press heal button" it takes skill to know damage is coming and act accordingly and quickly to avoid or mitigate it.
              >The reason they're often weeded out or baked into other classes is because this mode of control makes for less entertaining game play compared to the tank.
              That's why I said "creative" because you can make support classes interesting by letting them alter the rules of the battlefield. Mesmer from GW2 is a good example. Even something as simple as replacing healing with shields instead makes the support class more skill-based because they have to anticipate incoming damage and time their abilities properly.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >No they are not
                You are splitting unnecessary hairs. If the fundamental aspect of DPS is progress towards a win condition and the fundamental aspect of healer is regression of the lose condition, whether the damage mitigation is preemptive or post really doesn't matter.

                You're really not getting that "healing" in the context of lose condition regression can be whatever suites the games design?

                Saying the healer is "pointless" because someone can create a class like a Messmer which avoid damage by creating shadow clones is completely moronic. Yeah you can replace your direct heals per second gameplay in your MMO rpg by creating a convoluted form of bubble shield, that doesn't replace the le heckin pointless role you knuckle dragging ape it just creates a variation of it

                GW2 is a funny example of how deconstruction of the trinity removes team work. Dodge became your healer with micro support heals becoming a minor role. It wasn't until later they re-introduced the trinity because players weren't actually beating things with anything resembling team work.

                You really REALLY don't understand that the trinity is separating basic aspects of a single player games "ability" into 3 different roles. You're seeing it as some dumb arbitrary thing while proclaiming variations of the same fricking thing to be intuitive.

                Like all trinity challengers, you have failed.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                fricking a, use paragraphs you turboredditor

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                illiterate moron it's ironically reddit spaced which is even EASIER to read than a proper paragraph

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >you failed to argue your position because I just don't agree with it
                Your nonsense about the trinity representing aspects of single player games is just that, nonsense.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >whether the damage mitigation is preemptive or post really doesn't matter
                it kind of depends. if mitigation is timed (ie not a permanent defense increase) and encounters aren't based on fixed timelines, then it absolutely matters. you can't pre-empt random and/or unexpected damage

  61. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I don't understand why Ganker hates healers so much. In these threads, most of the replies amount to "healing is the problem, make everyone DPS, nobody likes healing." For one thing this isn't even true, there are a lot of people who like healing and find it engaging.

    But what I find truly bizarre about is it that healing might be the most distinctive feature of MMOs. MMOs are pretty much the ONLY genre where its even really a thing. What other games outside of MMOs offer a healing experiencing like you can do in WoW? There are virtually no other games where I can play like a Holy Priest or Resto Druid. There are tons and tons of games where you can be a dude dealing damage, but very very few where you can be a healer. So why get rid of it?

    And over the past few years there has actually been an emphasis on healers DPSing, and I don't even think it's been a positive direction. Making everyone DPS is just boring. I actually think MMOs would be more popular if the roles were even more distinct, because my inclination is that players tend to gravitate toward specialized roles rather than hybrid ones.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >MMOs are pretty much the ONLY genre where its even really a thing
      CRPGs, JPRGs and dungeon crawlers/blobbers aren't a thing anymore?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It's an exaggerated mockery of MMO players in general.
      Everyone wants to be "the cool guy" in the game and doing high damage is your most brain dead aspect of displaying strength.

      This was first realized when people would wait an eternity for either a tank or a healer in most MMOs. It was realized by those brave enough to play as tank that in the limited scope of enjoyable MMO combat, the tank role was actually pretty fun.

      It was simply the moronic phenomenon of considering the fact that you aren't doing the highest damage that the role was dismissed.
      It may have also been the fact that earlier MMOS didn't let you respect easily for PVP and a big factor for getting gear before shit like WoW splitting pvp stats from PVE was getting good gear to trivialize PVP.

      The point is, MMO players were typically moronic and calling the healer a pussy wienerbawd who has Non-gameplay is just the last vestiges of the same morons who'd mock a tank for not being able to do "massive deeps". The playerbases simply ruined the quality of life for other players by trying to be the hero. They refused to be healers with this sentiment, but were also too moronic to realize the tank was the closer role.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >MMOs are pretty much the ONLY genre where its even really a thing
      CRPGs, JPRGs and dungeon crawlers/blobbers aren't a thing anymore?

      Not to mention MOBAs and hero shooters

  62. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    it more looks like thie imo

  63. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Only DPS are fun to play if you are a straight man

  64. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    DPS is the skilless homosexual class that does easy damage at no cost
    Tank does a shit ton of damage and has skills that help his team, always played by CHADS
    Healer is submissive and heals the chad tank, always played by mentally ill boys who think theyre girls

  65. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I tried playing wow and modern mmos are actually garbage
    >have to constantly watch hotbar for cooldowns up
    >don't even need to look at the actual game for what is going on
    >to compensate for this, add 'don't stand in bad' mechanics
    >people use addons to add screen clutter to make it easier to know what you actually need to do

    I used to hate autoattacking and waiting a minute for trash mobs to die in olde mmos and older kmmos, but now I realize why they designed them that way and it's superior.
    Modern mmo gameplay is too busy to be able to socialize with people outside of vc, but not deep enough to be interesting like games with real action combat like Monster Hunter and Souls games. Now World is a good example of this shitty "combat too busy to idle, but not interesting enough to pay attention to" game design.

  66. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    it should be a quaternity that includes support.
    i would've included enchanter over bard but their class icon sucks

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I had a lot of fun with linker when tree of savior launched

  67. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Are there ANY active mmos with fun/interesting classes?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Define "fun/interesting". I enjoyed head empty fel cleaving as a a warrior in FFXIV. I also enjoyed being meticulous with my CDs, abusing vengeance and dealing triple the damage of a single dps in MoP.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Define "fun/interesting"
        Unique mechanics or playstyles, clear class identity, going all in on the concept even if it's just "guy with big sword" with good feedback and skills that make you feel like a human blender
        For reference I think it does exist in XIV but mostly relegated to PvP, things like GNB getting the adaptable FF8 draw/junction meme and DRG's team wiping gigajump make those classes so much more fun than their PvE counterparts. If classes played like that all the time I'd still be subbed

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Basically most of the asian wuxia mmos. Blade and Soul, Sword of Legends Online etc.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Basically most of the asian wuxia mmos
            But anon, they're all dead
            Sword of Legends didn't even last two years before Gameforge pulled the plug
            Blade and Soul NEO might be the last hope but global still doesn't have a release date

  68. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    healer can't do anything on his own
    give him summons or something for if he has no friends so he doesn't have to slowly whack everything to death and his healer skills still have a use

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      MMOs always got way too over cautious about healers having access to damage like they could reliably use it in dungeons.
      Unironically give damage spells a boost to them when solo or something. It always seemed like an easy fix.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      GW2 had the best system. There are multiple healers with different focus and potency, and they all dish out more or less damage.

  69. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Wow classic showed how shit this system was by having tanks be dps instead (and more fun that way)

  70. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Tanks are pointless. PSO solved this problem 23 years ago.

  71. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    People keep trying to apply it to other genres and it's stale. You can do things with team tactics other than healing and tank beat trying to shoot people unless you shoot the healer first.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      You can make a fun fps game with a trinity if you design the tanks and supports well, but that's too high iq for modern game developers.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I haven't really played an FPS where the presence of the trinity felt like it greatly enhanced the experience. It's usually the opposite.

        Overwatch had fun healers and tanks but they were suffocating when you actually wanted to kill someone.
        in TF2 the medic fricking sucks to play but you lose if you don't play him.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Tf2 has no trinity because it has no tank.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            heavy has a lot of the hallmarks like shit range and mobility although he doesn't have the damage mitigation to be a true tank

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              His minigun has some of the highest dps in the game. One of his strongest strategies in both organized play and pubs is to get on the flank and shred through an entire team with the tomislav from an off angle. A heavy staying in main and trying to do actual tank things will just get blown up.

  72. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Has anyone played outriders? How's that?

  73. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Needs a status guy. One that debuffs or inflicts status conditions on foes

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Dedicated supports died with the 2000s

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        all the games that try dedicated support it ends up being phased out because it’s just a zero skill role you HAVE to have

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        all the games that try dedicated support it ends up being phased out because it’s just a zero skill role you HAVE to have

        As I stated earlier the reason support died is because you're just controlling how well numbers go up or down rather than actually doing any work
        Tanks became the more entertaining pace controller because aggro has a visual display to the math equation that is combat.

        The only reason buffs were retained is because it added validation for classes of the same roles to be added without being rejected for imbalance. Ultimately nobody cares about the background noise of a support role, with the exception of CC.

        Of course, the reason other MMO's didn't repeat the Enchanter from EQ is because it made more sense to just spread CC across different classes as another incentive to bring them like buffs.

  74. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    three damage dealers is best
    why take so long when you can burst the whole dungeon

  75. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    In MMOs, the trinity works fine. The problem is when the trinity started to pop up in games that aren't MMOs, which is where you see the system truly begin to break down and show it's flaws like in overwatch.

  76. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    healer only exists because tank/dps either can't avoid damage with skill (shitty tab target gameplay) or they don't have enough personal responsibility to be able to heal themselves

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It's been stated already that any part of the trinity exists as an arbitrary separation.

  77. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    "DPS" remains a deeply moronic name. It should be Damage Dealer or "DD". DPS is what a DD specializes in.

  78. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    MMO died the moment WoW gays started forcing endgame raiding crap down everyone's throat, until it eventually became the staple system that 99% of other MMOs follows to this day.
    The autistic "muh deeps" gatekeeping was so bad that it gave birth to the whole solo player scene, which ultimately killed the entire social aspect of MMOs as nobody wanted to socialize anymore.
    I want to go back in time and sabotage WoW into failing early on, MMO genre would be alive to this day if WoW didn't become the blueprint everyone wanted to inspire their shit on.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It was bound to happen because leveling progression became an "inevitability" while endgame content created division.

      In Vanilla you had a brief moment where leveling created some division because how hard it took to get to 60 but ultimately the inevitable simplicity of leveling up meant it was considered less important than getting gear.

      Basically if you want your general PVE system to have value you can't have a "lesser progression" tied to it in favor of a more interesting progression, because thats how end game raiding took over.

      GW1 had a better idea of tying skill acquisition to questing.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Lol this post is too smart for MMO boomers, they genuinely believe you should be able to hit the max level of power by doing anything you want no matter how easy it is

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          It's more that they somehow think the leveling process is necessary progression even thought its purpose is lost once gear progression becomes more interesting.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          It's more that they somehow think the leveling process is necessary progression even thought its purpose is lost once gear progression becomes more interesting.

          Disgusting WoW rats.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      no. the social aspect of mmos died because there are more ways to socialize online today and mmos are not special anymore. outside of the social aspect, the genre would also have been killed either way by other live service games being more accessible

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Genre died because only a certain subset of people will pick up MMOs at all, and those who do will (for better or worse, call it sunken costs or whatever) stick to the ones they picked, they have finite time and playing more than 1 is already too much.
      FF14 got lucky because of WoW self-sabotage and the overly generous free trial

  79. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The trinity system makes the game more of an combat simulator rather than an RPG

  80. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    DPS is the only fun one. I want to kill shit, not get attacked by every enemy in the game or tard wrangle dumbass teammates.

  81. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Shields are for pussies, but tanking is cool

  82. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Tanking and Healing aren't fun.

  83. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Healer is the least masculine sissy little b***h girl who is obedient and a slave to the other roles.
    >heh, I decide who lives and who dies I hold life and death in my ha-ACK
    Pic related
    Then comes ranged dps and that is a femboy who knows just to hide with his little sniper and gets pounded in the ass by tanks and dps.
    Then comes dps which is the normie with testosterone levels between below average and above average.
    And then comes the giga boss masculine alpha TANKS who frick every little sissy b***h up in an instant left and right any direction all day. Get fricked

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >transfers 25% of aggro
      Once upon a time, when RDM would blow it's load the start of the dungeon. You could kill them. I assume you are one of those powertripping tank tards that try to drag the tankbuster over to healer/dps and leave in disgrace when you fail to kill them?

  84. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >dozens of minutes wasted because one guy out of a big group of people made a small woopsie
    how do you guys even enjoy raiding?
    some collectivist group achievement mindset kind of shit?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Large group PvE content just sucks in MMOs. Mythic+ 5 mans are far and away the best group content MMOs have ever had and I don't know why nobody copies it.

      God I wish there was a good MMO to play.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Sounds like you don't want an MMO at all. Why not just go play Destiny?

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          What? I've been playing MMOs since 2001. In all old MMOs you spent most of your time in 5/6 man groups. Raids have ALWAYS been dogshit. even in ffxi/eq.

          You can't have engaging/meaningful mechanics and 20/30/40 people groups. Mutually exclusive.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Not quite the same, but FFXIV has Deep dungeon, the closest they'll ever get to Mythic+ sadily. Vanilla Gw2 had Arah and honestly at the time it was a difficult ten hour dungeon that required tactics even for trash mobs but the content has been shelved for worse content. I'd love to see an MMO focused around dynamic, difficult dungeons instead of raids. Much easier to get three or four people together who want to have fun and enjoy a challenge instead of seven or more who are only in it for the prestige.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Instanced raiding is shit. Raids in EQ were fun as frick with all the people around and prep time with the boys before hand were fun as frick. In fact, just fricking get rid of 90% of instanced content in MMOs and the genre would start healing.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Meant for

            What? I've been playing MMOs since 2001. In all old MMOs you spent most of your time in 5/6 man groups. Raids have ALWAYS been dogshit. even in ffxi/eq.

            You can't have engaging/meaningful mechanics and 20/30/40 people groups. Mutually exclusive.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Raiding in EQ sucked donkey pp. It did not feel like anything I did mattered and I didn't need to know anything about the fights. It had absolutely 0 appeal and was actually worse than modern MMO raiding.

              Small group content has always and will always be the ideal MMO content. Each player provides meaningful power and must have agency. Content can be intricately designed.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                That's where you are wrong. Raiding in EQ was about the spectacle, not the challenge. Guilds getting together and fighting against other players for the honour of taking on a huge boss is cool as frick. Obsession with mechanical difficulty ruined MMOs. I'd rather the difficulty come from preparation, not dancing around the boss like a moron and figuring out some stupid new mechanic that just amounts to standing in the right spot.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >dude the content SHOULD be piss easy. the best gear in the game SHOULD require absolutely 0 effort or skill
                LOL

                i despise how modern ffxiv 'raids' are literally just a boss battle in an arena. no environments, no lieutenants/elites, no hordes. how the frick is that a 'raid'? that's just a regular ass boss. do these japanese morons even understand what raid means

                the worst thing is that they actually do have things approaching raids like the ones in the forays, so it's like they have some inkling of how to make a raid, but they just don't do it 99% of the time and call some glorified trial a raid

                I haven't played ffxiv in quite a few years now but it used to have both types. some sprawling two hour barn burners across a whole castle and some 15 minute gang bangs vs 1 dude. not like that anymore?

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >some 15 minute gang bangs vs 1 dude
                that's all we have now. the last actual 'raid' we had was delubrum reginae savage which was in feb 2021. we might get one in the upcoming expansion, for a grand total of THREE raid-like duties in the entire game and countless glorified trials that are called raids because... because japanese people like how it sounds or something i don't know frick

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                absolute shame what ffxiv and wow are both getting away with. wonder if an indie mmo could steal enough players to be worth it.

                I'm certain ashes of creation is destined for failure if it were to ever release.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Grinding mats to make consumables
                >Gather and organising the raid
                >Making your way to the raid dungeon and having to fend off other guilds for the privilege of even attempting the boss
                >0 effort or skill
                moron.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >dude the content SHOULD be piss easy. the best gear in the game SHOULD require absolutely 0 effort or skill
                LOL

                [...]
                I haven't played ffxiv in quite a few years now but it used to have both types. some sprawling two hour barn burners across a whole castle and some 15 minute gang bangs vs 1 dude. not like that anymore?

                >Grinding mats to make consumables
                >Gather and organising the raid
                >Making your way to the raid dungeon and having to fend off other guilds for the privilege of even attempting the boss
                >0 effort or skill
                moron.

                mmo "gameplay" is dogshit, in fact gameplay in rpgs in general is dogshit
                preparation and how you interact with other players IS the compelling gameplay

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Exactly. No idea why a bunch of ADHD morons obsessed with testing their motor skills latched onto to such a slow paced genre in the first place. What's even more bizarre is that they don't play games that do exactly what they want, like Tera, Vindictus or Lost Ark.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I did enjoy PotD but yeah not the same at all. FFXIV does so much right in the world/mechanics department but I dislike the systems/loops and the class homogeny.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I'm in the same boat, plus the open world is virtually pointless, which sucks beacuse I like aimlessly wandering around and stumbling over puzzles and fluff. I think it's going to be awhile before a good MMO actually crops up. I hope it's sooner rather then later, but it's not looking good.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      of hours wasted because one guy out of a big group of people made a bait thread
      >how do you guys even enjoy 4chin?
      >some collectivist group moronation mindset kind of shit?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      People don't raid for fun. Most people get programs to solve the fight for them even. They raid to get the reward and afk in a hub in a desperate bid for attention. They don't care about the content, or the challenge, they don't care about the fight. The only thing that matters is having more shiny things so someone, anyone, will give them attention.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >dozens of minutes
      Unless you wipe at 15 minute mark, which is already an outlier for a boss encounter, you aren't spending more than 10 minutes between most tries.
      >one guy out of a big group of people made a small woopsie
      If you are raiding with people of your skill level you are as likely to make a mistake as the next guy, so, OK?
      >how do you guys even enjoy raiding
      I enjoy solving and executing mechanics, also raid nights are basically a boys' night out.

  85. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Trinity itself is the flaw, tardlet.

  86. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    i don't do any roles i just fish with the lads in Booty Bay

  87. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    .png

  88. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The Hunting Horn is a support weapon. You support the other players by hitting the monster in the head

  89. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Wow a tank is there to absorb damage but there's no way to draw aggro to get enemies to target the tank more often than the other party members now all the DPS and casters are dead just heal oh the healers are dead too wouldn't it be great if the healers could tank that would be too easy how about the tank is the DPS no that would make too much sense what you need is a mediocre DPS tank stop asking questions.

  90. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    There are six roles
    Tank
    Healer
    Damage Dealer
    Support
    Control
    Intel
    If your game does not conform to this then it is simply not good

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >intel
      Based. I hate assassins but the idea of a tricksy rogue sneaking around and gathering information and stealing things is so much fun.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Name a game with these kind of roles.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Dota2

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      What exactly does "Intel" do? What does it do that can't be accomplished by prior experience, a wiki, or any other player just observing the enemy?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >finds enemy's current positions and health values (enemies can heal themselves and can potential sandbag, positioning matters, especially in larger dungeons with many patrolling enemies)
        >determines weaknesses and resistances (status and elemental) and abilities of enemies (these statistics are largely randomized and unpredictable)
        >reports enemies' gaining positive and negative condition changes (the game doesn't tell you otherwise) so the party can properly react to them
        you just need a game with slightly more ambitious gameplay than "spam your dps rotation and don't stand in the lava"

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          enemy's current positions and health values (enemies can heal themselves and can potential sandbag, positioning matters, especially in larger dungeons with many patrolling enemies)
          Why can't a teammate do this with some positioning and math?
          >>(these statistics are largely randomized and unpredictable)
          How does this make sense? Why?
          >>(the game doesn't tell you otherwise)
          Why would this be impactful enough to necessitate an entire role for it? If there's zero indication of this condition change, isn't this just an asspull to make a role more necessary?
          What does this role even do while leveling solo or outside of a raid context?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            nta but i'm guessing intel classes would be like the treasure hunter archetype with access to hidden areas, enemies, loot and maybe better drop tables

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >why can't team mates do this
            because they don't have abilities to let them know enemy locations from distances, they only know what the player can immediately see, and math won't do shit when you don't actually have damage or healing numbers
            >how does this make senes? why?
            so that you don't keep running identical content over and over and over and dungeons quests and raids can actually be different every time
            >why would this be impactful... make a role more necessary?
            you take for granted that the game communicates all relevant information to you, having a game that makes that singular change enables an entire new role, it's a good thing, and being able to respond to conditions can be pretty damn important, for example a condition that changes what damage types work, or maybe make one type heal it or maybe it develops a condition where it does track aggro for a while so your intel guy tells everyone to nova it then, or a condition where it begins to counter certain attacks, the possibilities are only limited by your imagination
            >leveling solo
            leveling solo is bullshit, if your mmo has solo leveling its not a real mmo
            friendless spergs that can't put a pug together for levelling shouldn't be the target audience for mmos, a fundamentally socially-driven game genre, and appeasing those types results in homogenous class design (just look at ffxiv)

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >because they don't have abilities to let them know enemy locations from distances, they only know what the player can immediately see, and math won't do shit when you don't actually have damage or healing numbers
              The only way this works is if there's no consistency in what your hits do, how much health enemies have, and if they simply don't visually react to damage and just drop dead 100-0 when their health runs out, which will just make it look awkward. There will always be dedicated autists to measure how much damage is done with what equipment, and all an "Intel" role would do is be the dedicated yardstick to never waste a raid slot with.
              >so that you don't keep running identical content over and over and over and dungeons quests and raids can actually be different every time
              Is it actually a worthwhile difference if the fire elemental gets healed by water damage? What sense is there in making skeletons more vulnerable to bleeds and resistant to blunt?
              >a condition that changes what damage types work, or maybe make one type heal it or maybe it develops a condition where it does track aggro for a while so your intel guy tells everyone to nova it then, or a condition where it begins to counter certain attacks
              Either this can be tracked by visual indication, or the enemies are in some stiff reference pose the entire time to avoid giving players any information. This hypothetical game sounds like it's sacrificing all visual design for the sake of a class that would be solely played by people forced into it without any delusion of having fun with it.
              >leveling solo is bullshit, if your mmo has solo leveling its not a real mmo
              Name a real MMO.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >responding in good faith to a moronic "ideaguy"
                NGMI.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            he is moronic and his whole idea of a new archetype is
            >this class has a "scan" passive that lets them see otherwise invisible mechanics
            It's moronic. He's moronic.
            MMOs should have tank, damage (burst), damage (sustained), healer, support.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >intel class is just a scan passive
              you have a very limited imagination
              you know i'm not even making something up? there are class shooters and mobas that have intel classes already, it wouldn't be much of a stretch to apply it to an mmo, it just needs a marginally less brainless gameplay loop for it to fit

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >there are class shooters and mobas that have intel classes already
                give me the examples you're thinking of so i can call you moronic

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I already see him being disingenuous and calling the recon group in apex the intel class. To be fair they do fit the archetype if you forget his original idea was for this to be translated to MMOs which makes absolutely 0 sense.

  91. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    i despise how modern ffxiv 'raids' are literally just a boss battle in an arena. no environments, no lieutenants/elites, no hordes. how the frick is that a 'raid'? that's just a regular ass boss. do these japanese morons even understand what raid means

    the worst thing is that they actually do have things approaching raids like the ones in the forays, so it's like they have some inkling of how to make a raid, but they just don't do it 99% of the time and call some glorified trial a raid

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The raids are like that because that's what the Japanese playerbase likes. They're supposed to be like jrpg boss fights. It's not for everyone, but when you understand what they're going for it makes sense.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      ikr. btw this post was brought to you by...RAID SHADOW LEGENDS.

  92. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    It's boring and unoriginal. The flaw is I have dozens of ideas instead of this that are better.

  93. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    There needs to be a class whose gimmick is they have no gear. Call them a Barbarian or something. Legally not allowed to wear armor. Just a naked guy with a weapon and it's totally viable.

  94. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I think the better/more gear you are wearing, the slower you should earn experience. Kind of like how if a guy brings a gun to a boxing match he wins every time but he hasn't learned how to box. Saw it in some anime recently, the MC told some rich guy he will never learn how to fight because he only wears the best gear only rich people can afford.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      that only makes sense for gaining boxing exp
      why would limiting yourself to a worse fighting form make you gain more overall exp

  95. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Attaching roles to classes incentivizes players to ignore the flavor of the class and play the role instead.

  96. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Tanks balance mitigation and damage while doing boss mechanics
    >Healers balance healing and damage while doing boss mechanics
    >Damage dealers just deal damage.
    Damage dealers are the weakest link in the trinity and could easily be removed since they only exist due to inflated health pools and provide zero additional value.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Do you really want the average DD to be trusted with timing debuffs and CC?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I don't trust damage dealers to do anything. They're all morons.

        might as well say healers and tanks exist only to inflate enemy damage, by the way did you know that dps also have to do boss mechanics

        >might as well say healers and tanks exist only to inflate enemy damage
        Except tanks have to hold threat, position the boss, mitigate damage, and deal damage.
        Except healers have to decurse, heal, damage, coordinate cooldowns
        >by the way did you know that dps also have to do boss mechanics
        Damage dealers don't do mechanics because any picosecond spent not doing their rotation completely breaks their brains.
        Damage dealers can't even fricking silence, tanks and healers have to do it.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      might as well say healers and tanks exist only to inflate enemy damage, by the way did you know that dps also have to do boss mechanics

  97. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Whatever happened to using consumable items like potions to heal in MMOs? Do games even use consumables like that anymore or are they all just timed buffs like stat-boosting foods and cash shop exp boosters?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      If you're playing easier difficulties you don't need them. If you're pushing higher-end content they're a necessity.

  98. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Tanking is boring
    DPS and run away to hide behind the tank is boring
    Healing in a combat situation is unrealistic.
    Specialization is generally unfun, as is teamwork that boils down to knowing your "role" and never stepping outside it.
    MMOs are not fun.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      What, and having all damage dealers that kite enemies that randomly swap targets is fun??

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Did I make that claim? Real action games where you attack, defend, and manage your own character's health are sometimes fun. MMOs are not fun.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Ah, the soulsgay has arrived to talk down on everyone for his leg-hugging shitgenre.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >FEWER MECHANICS GIVE ME FEWER MECHANICS I JUST WANT TO BE ABLE TO DESCRIBE MY GIMMICK IN ONE OF THREE MAJOR ARCHETYPES AND HAVE THE SAME FIGHT OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              MMO bossfights are far more intricate than soulshit lmao

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Real action games where you attack, defend, and manage your own character's health are sometimes fun.
          Funny, you do all of that in UO.
          Leave, tourist.

  99. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >support caster

  100. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Lack of outside roles which could suit other playstyles. Pure buffer, tactical logistic, engineer/builders. So many more things could be added as unique roles.

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *