No one but screeching fanboys deny this? Even the weakest 3D Mario is still the best 3D platformer there is. All the other lack moves and pure platforming levels
It had potential, but was clearly rushed and not made by Nintendo's A team. It's such a huge drop in quality from the NES to N64 days. It almost made me quit Nintendo.
It's just fascinating how unlikely of an oddity it is. Like why would you follow up your very first 3D Mario with something so gimmicky and risky instead of just doing the obvious?
It's always hilarious to me that people portray Nintendo as that evil company that only does safe rehashes like EA or something. It's nothing but risk taking for them. Since ever
I adore the GameCube era because of how out of their comfort zone Nintendo went. They actively made an attempt to get third party support back after the big names largely abandoned the N64. Lots of unique exclusives like Eternal Darkness and Baten Kaitos.
Once you get over the superficial change of the art style you get an OoT rehash that reminds you at every turn "'member OoT?" It's a game with literally no identity of its own.
I think Wind Waker’s characterizations of Link, Zelda and Ganondorf are all superior to OoT. The story in general is more compelling and acts as a really solid sequel to Ocarina.
Biggest problem is it is unfinished, and Zelda's weird heel turn in her personality deflated that ambition in her being a pirate.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
I think that’s the biggest issue with the GameCube’s core library. Several of the big first party games felt a little rough around the edges by Nintendo standards. I’ll always stick up for MK Double Dash though.
Art style is a strawman. The game is garbage with 3 dungeons and the world makes it seem like it wasn't ever supposed to be a Zelda game but got repurposed.
So...it's Zelda...without dungeons or world.
I’m a Wind Waker defender and it’s my favorite 3D Zelda. I love the ocean setting and it’s my pick for best story/writing in the series. Guess I just love beachy feeling games since Link’s Awakening is my favorite 2D one.
Art style is a strawman. The game is garbage with 3 dungeons and the world makes it seem like it wasn't ever supposed to be a Zelda game but got repurposed.
So...it's Zelda...without dungeons or world.
>NOOO, just ignore the thing that wasn't safe, then it's safe!
Fans waited years for another OoT-like Zelda and feared that they'd never see one again. The controversy was massive and many are mad to this day (well, doesn't help that TP is the only non-toon Zelda we got since then)
I'd argue slowly navigating an ocean, empty as they are, wasn't the safest bet to make either
I think it’s pretty clear that OoT and Majora were both meant to have cartoony, stylized looking characters. It’s just that the limitations of the N64 meant they were all blocky and angular looking.
Does this look cartoony or like Wind Waker to you?
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
I’m not what you’re trying to convey with these webms of empty buildings when my post
I think it’s pretty clear that OoT and Majora were both meant to have cartoony, stylized looking characters. It’s just that the limitations of the N64 meant they were all blocky and angular looking.
was referring to the character models.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>I’m not what you’re trying to convey with these webms
That N64 Zeldas obviously weren't meant to look like cartoons, let alone Wind Waker-level. That you dismiss the entire game world and specifically make it about character models just shows that you're a Nintendo hater who accidentally stumbled into a Nintendo thread again
You made this thread recently
[...]
And I would bet you just made this post
This shows you haven't played it since it launched and you were a kid.
as well
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Ocarina of Time was meant to have the sort of anime style that was popular in the mid to late 90s. Wind Waker was clearly going for more of a Studio Ghibli thing.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Ghibli has nothing to do with the look Wind Waker is ripping off-- I mean "is inspired by"
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Is Wind Waker "uninspired" or is it bad that it's inspired by something? You have to make up your mind
https://desuarchive.org/vr/thread/10370251/#q10371056
Anon, I’m in a Nintendo thread defending Wind Waker lmao.
List the posts you made then
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
I made this post
I’m a Wind Waker defender and it’s my favorite 3D Zelda. I love the ocean setting and it’s my pick for best story/writing in the series. Guess I just love beachy feeling games since Link’s Awakening is my favorite 2D one.
and this post
I think it’s pretty clear that OoT and Majora were both meant to have cartoony, stylized looking characters. It’s just that the limitations of the N64 meant they were all blocky and angular looking.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
So your "Wind Waker defending" is one post where you declare yourself a Wind Waker defender... And you admit being the retard who spams OoT character models and thinks the N64 wasn't capable of unrealistic graphics. Got it
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
The N64 was capable of producing what could be described as realistic looking graphics, but the Zelda games were definitely meant to be anime-ish.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>but the Zelda games were definitely meant to be anime-ish.
They look just the way they were meant to, and that isn't Wind Waker-ish at all. Every post you're making is retarded and pointless and admitting that you are a schizo (like most Nintendo shitposters) also didn't help your case
It was an unsafe rehash.
>rehash
If a game is a rehash for retaining the core formula of the franchise because that's what the people who like the franchise want from the franchise, then every series is rehashes and the word means nothing
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
I never once claimed that OoT/MM were meant to look like Wind Waker. I did however correctly point out that they were meant to be stylized and not realistic. See also:
[...]
Pretty much all Zelda games since ALttP have had cartoony characters interacting with a 'realistic' world. The chibi designs in ALttP and the Game Boy Zeldas aren’t actually what the characters look like.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>stylized
No you said cartoony and implied N64 Zeldas were meant to look similar to WW (downplaying the WW transmogrification) but didn't because of N64 limitations
I think it’s pretty clear that OoT and Majora were both meant to have cartoony, stylized looking characters. It’s just that the limitations of the N64 meant they were all blocky and angular looking.
. It's just weird autism noises as per usual from you
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
I did not imply that and Ocarina of Time does often have cartoony looking characters.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Then what exactly is your point here
I think it’s pretty clear that OoT and Majora were both meant to have cartoony, stylized looking characters. It’s just that the limitations of the N64 meant they were all blocky and angular looking.
if not to push back against the notion that WW was a drastic visual change? It's like you just wanted an excuse to spam your OoT character models again...which you're still doing lol
irreversibly brainbroken
>Zeldurfags hijack another thread
As expected. This board is such a makeshift Discord shitshow.
Not Zelda's fault you can't help but lie and shitpost when you see the WW boxart
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Everyone that disagrees with me is the same person
Go back to Discord, underaged.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Another high-quality post from you because of a Zelda boxart
My point was that if the N64 hardware had been capable, the N64 Zelda games most likely would’ve looked much more like an anime. Similar to what they’ve settled on with BotW/TotK. They were never meant to look 'realistic'. As a result, the NPC designs in OoT especially are kind of all over the place.
>My point was that if the N64 hardware had been capable, the N64 Zelda games most likely would’ve looked much more like an anime
The N64 has plenty games that look more stylized and more anime than OoT. Not even sure what makes you think a flat toon game is more demanding and requires more complex textures and polygons than a realistic game. Thanks for admitting you just wanted to talk about OoT because of your obsession and nothing you have to say even challenges the fact that WW was a drastic change, though >Similar to what they’ve settled on with BotW/TotK
Literally the opposite of what you're saying applies to SS and BotW. They decided to go with a toon look (with literal Mii NPCs) because the hardware is weak as shit
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
The only way we will ever see a more realistic Zelda again is another powerful Nintendo console
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Literally the opposite of what you're saying applies to SS and BotW. They decided to go with a toon look (with literal Mii NPCs) because the hardware is weak as shit
Also the same reason they stylized Okami instead of going with what they initially had in mind
I really hope they dissect a Nintendo shitposter's brain in the future to see what makes them this way
>Mario Sunshine thread >derails into a Zelda thread 8 posts in
Nintendo shitposters gonna shitpost
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
But Anon. You're engaging in the Zelda slapfight too.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Ocarina of Time heavily used pre-rendered buildings and interiors because of the N64’s limitations. Doesn’t change the fact that the main characters all have big anime eyes.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Looks pretty toon-inspired to me.
No one said OoT isn't at least part anime or tries to be hyperrealistic. It's a mix like countless other Japanese games. You're moving the goalposts because losing and unintelligent
But Anon. You're engaging in the Zelda slapfight too.
You should push back against dishonest bullshit when jannies refuse to do it. Literally self-defense. Ignoring doesn't help because they do it in every thread all the time
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>because they do it in every thread
And by "they" I mean mostly one samefagging freak who literally has no real life
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>No one said OoT isn't at least part anime or tries to be hyperrealistic. It's a mix like countless other Japanese games.
That’s been my argument all along, anon. You’ve been the goofball denying it.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>That’s been my argument all along, anon
Yeah, that's what I'm pointing out. You bring up N64 Zeldas here
I think it’s pretty clear that OoT and Majora were both meant to have cartoony, stylized looking characters. It’s just that the limitations of the N64 meant they were all blocky and angular looking.
in reply to a post about WW just so you have an excuse to take shots at as many Zelda games as you can and spam your OoT NPCs again, something you literally made a thread for just a few days ago
[...]
[...]
[...]
Just jumping in to say that it’s EXTREMELY dishonest to post these pre-rendered images from tech demos and such rather than from the game itself. For shame.
When someone says OoT would look anime or close to WW if not held back by limitations, there is indeed merit in sharing official Nintendo renders that show what Nintendo has in mind if not held back by limitations
You could just read one of the countless Nintendo interviews in which they clearly differentiate between more realistic Zelda games and WW. Hell, even Miyamoto was absolutely opposed to the toon overhaul at first
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>there is indeed merit in sharing official Nintendo renders that show what Nintendo has in mind if not held back by limitations
Nah, I’m calling bullshit. Those renders are from well after Ocarina of Time was released. You need to apologize.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Nah, I’m calling bullshit.
You're the only one posting headcanon bullshit
>they initially wanted WW realistic like OoT and had a prototype ready >even Miyamoto was opposed to toon Zelda >settled on WW's style because they didn’t have the staff to create a realistic-looking Zelda and a toon Zelda could be made in a fraction of the time
Toon Zeldas are the cop-out, not the other way around. Nintendo didn't accidentally stumble into realistic backgrounds and color palettes. That you're allowed to go on and on with your disinformation campaigns just because you can't afford a psychiatrist is flabbergasting
>Wind Waker is a soulless rehash of OoT
Are you confusing WW with TP? It doesn't even make sense to call WW a clone of OoT, they're nothing alike. The way I see it, there are two styles of mainline Zelda games, one prioritizes exploration (TLoZ-WW-BotW-TotK), the other puzzles and combat (aLttP-OoT-MM-TP-SS).
To call any 3D Zelda (that isn't TotK) a rehash is fanboy derangement. Zelda is all about exploring overworlds and dungeon crawling. They all have a completely different overworld and dungeon layouts and add their own unique gameplay elements and flair. There is a reason why there is so much infighting in the Zelda fandom
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
What I’m calling bullshit on is you posting renders from years after Ocarina was released. See
I think you’re better off posting Link’s model from Melee, which is based on his OoT look. I’d say it looks like Nintendo’s typical anime fantasy style shared by Fire Emblem.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
I already explained that to your samefag
>That’s been my argument all along, anon
Yeah, that's what I'm pointing out. You bring up N64 Zeldas here [...] in reply to a post about WW just so you have an excuse to take shots at as many Zelda games as you can and spam your OoT NPCs again, something you literally made a thread for just a few days ago [...]
[...]
When someone says OoT would look anime or close to WW if not held back by limitations, there is indeed merit in sharing official Nintendo renders that show what Nintendo has in mind if not held back by limitations
You could just read one of the countless Nintendo interviews in which they clearly differentiate between more realistic Zelda games and WW. Hell, even Miyamoto was absolutely opposed to the toon overhaul at first
>When someone says OoT would look anime or close to WW if not held back by limitations, there is indeed merit in sharing official Nintendo renders that show what Nintendo has in mind if not held back by limitations
And besides Smash always changing characters to make them blend in with Mario and talking animals, you still have relatively normal proportions and details. No one denies that OoT is a blend between realistic and stylized, like countless other Japanese or even western games. Nowhere near fully toon or WW levels, though. You're just derailing Nintendo-related threads with negativity for the sake of it (also mental illness, nothing to play on your systems)
Wait, wait, I just reread this post and NOPE. If you’re referring to the Space World Link vs Gandondorf tech demo, that is NOT a prototype. Dishonest post.
>If you’re referring to the Space World Link vs Gandondorf tech demo
I did not. Though I love that you are no longer even trying not to sound like a troll and go wild with the all-caps. Telling
Miyamoyo legit has horrible instincts sometimes. Koizumi should’ve been put in charge of Zelda instead of Aonuma.
>predicted that WW won't sell well
Yeah, horrible
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Okay then what were you referring to when you said they had a prototype ready? You’re a fucking slimeball, dude. You’ve been fudging stuff this whole argument. And again, your excuse is not valid. Posting pre-rendered images from years after OoT came out is bunk.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>You're just derailing Nintendo-related threads with negativity for the sake of it (also mental illness, nothing to play on your systems)
Buddy, this whole argument boils down to you liking Ocarina more and me preferring Wind Waker. Why do you keep accusing me of being anti-Nintendo?
>Okay then what were you referring to when you said they had a prototype ready?
The interview addressed in the DYKG video >Why do you keep accusing me of being anti-Nintendo?
I explained that here
>That’s been my argument all along, anon
Yeah, that's what I'm pointing out. You bring up N64 Zeldas here [...] in reply to a post about WW just so you have an excuse to take shots at as many Zelda games as you can and spam your OoT NPCs again, something you literally made a thread for just a few days ago [...]
[...]
When someone says OoT would look anime or close to WW if not held back by limitations, there is indeed merit in sharing official Nintendo renders that show what Nintendo has in mind if not held back by limitations
You could just read one of the countless Nintendo interviews in which they clearly differentiate between more realistic Zelda games and WW. Hell, even Miyamoto was absolutely opposed to the toon overhaul at first
Going to reply to you less now because I'm not a janny so I don't have to be here and you disgust me on multiple levels
Fact Check: Wind Waker still sold well, just not as well as Ocarina.
It officially sold below expectations and half as much as LA, which had a shoestring budget
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
So I guess to sum everything up: Do you like Wind Waker or not? I like Ocarina of Time, dislike Majora’s Mask and adore Wind Waker. Miyamoto was wrong.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Fact Check: Wind Waker still sold well, just not as well as Ocarina.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>You're just derailing Nintendo-related threads with negativity for the sake of it (also mental illness, nothing to play on your systems)
Buddy, this whole argument boils down to you liking Ocarina more and me preferring Wind Waker. Why do you keep accusing me of being anti-Nintendo?
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Miyamoyo legit has horrible instincts sometimes. Koizumi should’ve been put in charge of Zelda instead of Aonuma.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Wait, wait, I just reread this post and NOPE. If you’re referring to the Space World Link vs Gandondorf tech demo, that is NOT a prototype. Dishonest post.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>a klabautermann snuck in and finished the golf island at night
The only thing that makes zelda more soul is looking up how it's made
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
That Tetra game looks much better than I thought. Shame about the GBA shit
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
I think you’re better off posting Link’s model from Melee, which is based on his OoT look. I’d say it looks like Nintendo’s typical anime fantasy style shared by Fire Emblem.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Looks pretty toon-inspired to me.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
My point was that if the N64 hardware had been capable, the N64 Zelda games most likely would’ve looked much more like an anime. Similar to what they’ve settled on with BotW/TotK. They were never meant to look 'realistic'. As a result, the NPC designs in OoT especially are kind of all over the place.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Then what exactly is your point here [...] if not to push back against the notion that WW was a drastic visual change? It's like you just wanted an excuse to spam your OoT character models again...which you're still doing lol
irreversibly brainbroken
[...]
Not Zelda's fault you can't help but lie and shitpost when you see the WW boxart
The only way we will ever see a more realistic Zelda again is another powerful Nintendo console
Just jumping in to say that it’s EXTREMELY dishonest to post these pre-rendered images from tech demos and such rather than from the game itself. For shame.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
So your "Wind Waker defending" is one post where you declare yourself a Wind Waker defender... And you admit being the retard who spams OoT character models and thinks the N64 wasn't capable of unrealistic graphics. Got it
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Ocarina of Time was meant to have the sort of anime style that was popular in the mid to late 90s. Wind Waker was clearly going for more of a Studio Ghibli thing.
Future Boy Conan was clearly a massive inspiration on Wind Waker, both in terms of setting and story (flooded world, leaving home segment, rescue mission, stealth tower sequence, etc.) and that anime was proto-Ghibli. That said, the character style in the Little Prince and the Eight-Headed Dragon might be a clearer basis for Wind Waker, but the actual world and story is effectively a fantasy version of Future Boy Conan.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Going a little further on Future Boy Conan since there's actually remarkably little online about how much of it got redone in Wind Waker. I don't want to have to take a shitload of screenshots, but the entire Forsaken Fortress is taken almost wholesale from the anime. Conan sets off on a ship to infiltrate the heavily-guarded Triangle Tower (in the city-state of Industria), where his friend Lana is locked in a room high above. He discovers her location by spotting the gulls flying near her window, lit up as a portal of light in the night, knowing she had an affinity for the birds and could speak with them. He sneaks through the tower, climbing up to her window, before the two escape while being searched for with bright yellow spotlights.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
I’m intrigued. I’ll give it a watch.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
I'd highly recommend. It's a really great anime, and if you're a fan of Wind Waker it's cool to see spot what the devs lifted from the show.
Not vidya, but Akage no Anne is also another really good, light-hearted series from the same studio. It's based on Anne of Green Gables, and though I haven't read the books I'm quite certain that it stays faithful to them.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Going a little further on Future Boy Conan since there's actually remarkably little online about how much of it got redone in Wind Waker. I don't want to have to take a shitload of screenshots, but the entire Forsaken Fortress is taken almost wholesale from the anime. Conan sets off on a ship to infiltrate the heavily-guarded Triangle Tower (in the city-state of Industria), where his friend Lana is locked in a room high above. He discovers her location by spotting the gulls flying near her window, lit up as a portal of light in the night, knowing she had an affinity for the birds and could speak with them. He sneaks through the tower, climbing up to her window, before the two escape while being searched for with bright yellow spotlights.
I'd highly recommend. It's a really great anime, and if you're a fan of Wind Waker it's cool to see spot what the devs lifted from the show.
Not vidya, but Akage no Anne is also another really good, light-hearted series from the same studio. It's based on Anne of Green Gables, and though I haven't read the books I'm quite certain that it stays faithful to them.
Funny, Conan's an even bigger inspiration on Megaman Legends, that series wears the similarities on its sleeve. And once you know what it's about, you can piece together the similarities between it and Wind Waker. It also happens to feature the oldest Goku-type anime protag, the sequence of events of the first episode and Conan himself is damn near identical to Dragon Ball's beginning.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
I've never played Megaman Legends, but I'd say the exact same about Wind Waker. I imagine both simply pulled different elements.
>oldest Goku-type anime protag
Man I'm pretty sure the hero's journey archetype has existed a lot longer than Future Boy Conan. A Link to the Past was much later, but it's also very similar in how it opened, and you're going to find the pattern in all kinds of stories across literal millenia. The archetype always begins with the hero having to leave his cloistered, comfortable life, optionally with his attachment being severed somehow---which death does perfectly.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
No I don't mean hero's journey, I mean the quintessential shonen MC. Meaning some super powered strong retarded boy from bumfuck nowhere that doesn't understand what's going in the story he gets thrown in and beats everyone up with his abnormal powers to protect the other MCs who do care because they're his friends. Also see Naruto, Luffy, Gon.
As a bonus both Goku and Conan grew up with their grandpas and their journeys are kickstarted by a fateful meeting with a girl after hunting a big fish hmmmm.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
I didn’t make that thread but OoT’s character models are definitely a weird mixed bag of styles.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>I didn’t make that thread
I think you did. I also think you need to take your meds and stop shitposting your life away in Nintendo threads. It's annoying because sometimes I think I'm having an honest exchange and then I realize "oh, it's this lifeless psycho again"
If it's because you're a janny so you have to stick around here all day, then just stop being a janny. Not like you get a cent for it or like it's real authority when everyone can just avoid your bans
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Anon, I’m in a Nintendo thread defending Wind Waker lmao.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Yes
That's hyperrealism compared to Wind Waker and what toon graphics the N64 was perfectly capable of doing
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Does this look cartoony or like Wind Waker to you?
Pretty much all Zelda games since ALttP have had cartoony characters interacting with a 'realistic' world. The chibi designs in ALttP and the Game Boy Zeldas aren’t actually what the characters look like.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Who designs a temple so that you have to approach it from the side in a cramped alley way overlooking the side of some guys house?
>The controversy over Wind Waker’s art style alone shows that it wasn’t the safe choice
The toon thing also permates every aspect of the game and isn't merely visual >animations >wind mechanics >picking up oversized enemy weapons >Link being launched into the air by buds >using a dragon's tail for your grappling hook
and a million other things
People say they do safe rehashes because Nintendo likes to lean on its popular brands when trying new ideas a lot of the time. They could have made a new IP with the cel shaded style that was an adventure game on an open sea in a flooded world, but they decided to go with the Zelda branding. Not saying that’s wrong, but to people on the outside looking in, Nintendo makes lots of Mario and Zelda games instead of “innovating” by constantly creating new worlds and characters.
I love Sunshine. The only thing the game is missing is a blue coin counter to show how many you are missing in each stage.
Odyssey is the worst 3D Mario, but that's not retro.
Worst 3D Mario game, and the only one that's a complete chore to 100% that practically requires a guide to do so. >no blue coin counter >some blue coins require arbitrarily spraying water at an object but only when a specific episode is picked otherwise it will never spawn
I also think its a good game though, it just doesnt hold hold up to the others.
I'm starting to think the majority of the regulars on /vr/ who discuss Zelda are /vg/ rejects that just discuss the same things with the same comparisons with the same arguments thread after thread after thread.
What did you expect? Zeldurfags are some of the worst autists on this board next to Segatards and Sonicfags. These threads are just full of underaged and speedtrannies.
Cubies have the thinnest skin of all the console generations, and they will crawl out of the woodwork if you dare to imply their games are badly made, rushed, or not fun.
This is hands down one of the best things ever in a Nintendo game:
%3D%3D
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
real. for me its the title theme though. did you know shiggy played the mandolin in it?
>trying to trick people who don't know Link will look in whatever direction you're tilting the analog stick when pressed against a wall
Now show his eyes doing that when he's not pressed against the wall.
tf are you talking about? it just looks full of life
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Still the best Zelda mobs. TP was also good but then everything after is trash
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>zombies rocking leopard print undies
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>trying to trick people who don't know Link will look in whatever direction you're tilting the analog stick when pressed against a wall
Now show his eyes doing that when he's not pressed against the wall.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
How is that a trick? You need to calm down, friend.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
The image is trying to imply Link's watching the shadows on his own, not that the player is making him do goofy eyeball tricks. There's no soul here.
>Wind Waker is a soulless rehash of OoT
Are you confusing WW with TP? It doesn't even make sense to call WW a clone of OoT, they're nothing alike. The way I see it, there are two styles of mainline Zelda games, one prioritizes exploration (TLoZ-WW-BotW-TotK), the other puzzles and combat (aLttP-OoT-MM-TP-SS).
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
He’s also ignoring the fact that every 3D Zelda game up to Skyward Sword followed the template set by A Link to the Past, ie:
>Forest/Fire/Water dungeons first >major story event >More dungeons
Cubies have the thinnest skin of all the console generations, and they will crawl out of the woodwork if you dare to imply their games are badly made, rushed, or not fun.
I like that cool water shotgun move you can do by clicking R down and pressing A. I chain that shit in the air and wipe out a lot of sludge in a hurry.
Being able to slightly wet the ground and then dive onto it to rocket forwards is also good.
No one but screeching fanboys deny this? Even the weakest 3D Mario is still the best 3D platformer there is. All the other lack moves and pure platforming levels
>Even the weakest 3D Mario is still the best 3D platformer there is
literally makes no sense
Obviously I mean outside of other Marios
It is. Shame about the analog triggers.
>Shame about the analog triggers.
But the way the triggers work in Sunshine feels nice and satisfying. Is it hard to set up in emu?
Yes. It's way better to play on real hardware, but I don't feel like taking out my GameCube just to replay Sunshine.
Stil looks insane for its time. Also one of the best games with this setting
It had potential, but was clearly rushed and not made by Nintendo's A team. It's such a huge drop in quality from the NES to N64 days. It almost made me quit Nintendo.
FOR ME TO POOP ON!
It's just fascinating how unlikely of an oddity it is. Like why would you follow up your very first 3D Mario with something so gimmicky and risky instead of just doing the obvious?
It's always hilarious to me that people portray Nintendo as that evil company that only does safe rehashes like EA or something. It's nothing but risk taking for them. Since ever
I adore the GameCube era because of how out of their comfort zone Nintendo went. They actively made an attempt to get third party support back after the big names largely abandoned the N64. Lots of unique exclusives like Eternal Darkness and Baten Kaitos.
>posts the safest rehash in existence
The controversy over Wind Waker’s art style alone shows that it wasn’t the safe choice. Twilight Princess was the safe one.
Once you get over the superficial change of the art style you get an OoT rehash that reminds you at every turn "'member OoT?" It's a game with literally no identity of its own.
I think Wind Waker’s characterizations of Link, Zelda and Ganondorf are all superior to OoT. The story in general is more compelling and acts as a really solid sequel to Ocarina.
Biggest problem is it is unfinished, and Zelda's weird heel turn in her personality deflated that ambition in her being a pirate.
I think that’s the biggest issue with the GameCube’s core library. Several of the big first party games felt a little rough around the edges by Nintendo standards. I’ll always stick up for MK Double Dash though.
It was an unsafe rehash.
Excluding my post:
17 posts are on-topic
48 posts about Zelda/unrelated
That like, what, close to 70 ~ 75ish% unrelated to the thread?
TP is a rehash, not WW.
Art style is a strawman. The game is garbage with 3 dungeons and the world makes it seem like it wasn't ever supposed to be a Zelda game but got repurposed.
So...it's Zelda...without dungeons or world.
I’m a Wind Waker defender and it’s my favorite 3D Zelda. I love the ocean setting and it’s my pick for best story/writing in the series. Guess I just love beachy feeling games since Link’s Awakening is my favorite 2D one.
>NOOO, just ignore the thing that wasn't safe, then it's safe!
Fans waited years for another OoT-like Zelda and feared that they'd never see one again. The controversy was massive and many are mad to this day (well, doesn't help that TP is the only non-toon Zelda we got since then)
I'd argue slowly navigating an ocean, empty as they are, wasn't the safest bet to make either
I think it’s pretty clear that OoT and Majora were both meant to have cartoony, stylized looking characters. It’s just that the limitations of the N64 meant they were all blocky and angular looking.
No
?
Does this look cartoony or like Wind Waker to you?
I’m not what you’re trying to convey with these webms of empty buildings when my post
was referring to the character models.
>I’m not what you’re trying to convey with these webms
That N64 Zeldas obviously weren't meant to look like cartoons, let alone Wind Waker-level. That you dismiss the entire game world and specifically make it about character models just shows that you're a Nintendo hater who accidentally stumbled into a Nintendo thread again
You made this thread recently
And I would bet you just made this post
as well
Ocarina of Time was meant to have the sort of anime style that was popular in the mid to late 90s. Wind Waker was clearly going for more of a Studio Ghibli thing.
Ghibli has nothing to do with the look Wind Waker is ripping off-- I mean "is inspired by"
Is Wind Waker "uninspired" or is it bad that it's inspired by something? You have to make up your mind
https://desuarchive.org/vr/thread/10370251/#q10371056
List the posts you made then
I made this post
and this post
So your "Wind Waker defending" is one post where you declare yourself a Wind Waker defender... And you admit being the retard who spams OoT character models and thinks the N64 wasn't capable of unrealistic graphics. Got it
The N64 was capable of producing what could be described as realistic looking graphics, but the Zelda games were definitely meant to be anime-ish.
>but the Zelda games were definitely meant to be anime-ish.
They look just the way they were meant to, and that isn't Wind Waker-ish at all. Every post you're making is retarded and pointless and admitting that you are a schizo (like most Nintendo shitposters) also didn't help your case
>rehash
If a game is a rehash for retaining the core formula of the franchise because that's what the people who like the franchise want from the franchise, then every series is rehashes and the word means nothing
I never once claimed that OoT/MM were meant to look like Wind Waker. I did however correctly point out that they were meant to be stylized and not realistic. See also:
>stylized
No you said cartoony and implied N64 Zeldas were meant to look similar to WW (downplaying the WW transmogrification) but didn't because of N64 limitations
. It's just weird autism noises as per usual from you
I did not imply that and Ocarina of Time does often have cartoony looking characters.
Then what exactly is your point here
if not to push back against the notion that WW was a drastic visual change? It's like you just wanted an excuse to spam your OoT character models again...which you're still doing lol
irreversibly brainbroken
Not Zelda's fault you can't help but lie and shitpost when you see the WW boxart
>Everyone that disagrees with me is the same person
Go back to Discord, underaged.
Another high-quality post from you because of a Zelda boxart
>My point was that if the N64 hardware had been capable, the N64 Zelda games most likely would’ve looked much more like an anime
The N64 has plenty games that look more stylized and more anime than OoT. Not even sure what makes you think a flat toon game is more demanding and requires more complex textures and polygons than a realistic game. Thanks for admitting you just wanted to talk about OoT because of your obsession and nothing you have to say even challenges the fact that WW was a drastic change, though
>Similar to what they’ve settled on with BotW/TotK
Literally the opposite of what you're saying applies to SS and BotW. They decided to go with a toon look (with literal Mii NPCs) because the hardware is weak as shit
The only way we will ever see a more realistic Zelda again is another powerful Nintendo console
>Literally the opposite of what you're saying applies to SS and BotW. They decided to go with a toon look (with literal Mii NPCs) because the hardware is weak as shit
Also the same reason they stylized Okami instead of going with what they initially had in mind
I really hope they dissect a Nintendo shitposter's brain in the future to see what makes them this way
Nintendo shitposters gonna shitpost
But Anon. You're engaging in the Zelda slapfight too.
Ocarina of Time heavily used pre-rendered buildings and interiors because of the N64’s limitations. Doesn’t change the fact that the main characters all have big anime eyes.
No one said OoT isn't at least part anime or tries to be hyperrealistic. It's a mix like countless other Japanese games. You're moving the goalposts because losing and unintelligent
You should push back against dishonest bullshit when jannies refuse to do it. Literally self-defense. Ignoring doesn't help because they do it in every thread all the time
>because they do it in every thread
And by "they" I mean mostly one samefagging freak who literally has no real life
>No one said OoT isn't at least part anime or tries to be hyperrealistic. It's a mix like countless other Japanese games.
That’s been my argument all along, anon. You’ve been the goofball denying it.
>That’s been my argument all along, anon
Yeah, that's what I'm pointing out. You bring up N64 Zeldas here
in reply to a post about WW just so you have an excuse to take shots at as many Zelda games as you can and spam your OoT NPCs again, something you literally made a thread for just a few days ago
When someone says OoT would look anime or close to WW if not held back by limitations, there is indeed merit in sharing official Nintendo renders that show what Nintendo has in mind if not held back by limitations
You could just read one of the countless Nintendo interviews in which they clearly differentiate between more realistic Zelda games and WW. Hell, even Miyamoto was absolutely opposed to the toon overhaul at first
>there is indeed merit in sharing official Nintendo renders that show what Nintendo has in mind if not held back by limitations
Nah, I’m calling bullshit. Those renders are from well after Ocarina of Time was released. You need to apologize.
>Nah, I’m calling bullshit.
You're the only one posting headcanon bullshit
>they initially wanted WW realistic like OoT and had a prototype ready
>even Miyamoto was opposed to toon Zelda
>settled on WW's style because they didn’t have the staff to create a realistic-looking Zelda and a toon Zelda could be made in a fraction of the time
Toon Zeldas are the cop-out, not the other way around. Nintendo didn't accidentally stumble into realistic backgrounds and color palettes. That you're allowed to go on and on with your disinformation campaigns just because you can't afford a psychiatrist is flabbergasting
To call any 3D Zelda (that isn't TotK) a rehash is fanboy derangement. Zelda is all about exploring overworlds and dungeon crawling. They all have a completely different overworld and dungeon layouts and add their own unique gameplay elements and flair. There is a reason why there is so much infighting in the Zelda fandom
What I’m calling bullshit on is you posting renders from years after Ocarina was released. See
I already explained that to your samefag
>When someone says OoT would look anime or close to WW if not held back by limitations, there is indeed merit in sharing official Nintendo renders that show what Nintendo has in mind if not held back by limitations
And besides Smash always changing characters to make them blend in with Mario and talking animals, you still have relatively normal proportions and details. No one denies that OoT is a blend between realistic and stylized, like countless other Japanese or even western games. Nowhere near fully toon or WW levels, though. You're just derailing Nintendo-related threads with negativity for the sake of it (also mental illness, nothing to play on your systems)
>If you’re referring to the Space World Link vs Gandondorf tech demo
I did not. Though I love that you are no longer even trying not to sound like a troll and go wild with the all-caps. Telling
>predicted that WW won't sell well
Yeah, horrible
Okay then what were you referring to when you said they had a prototype ready? You’re a fucking slimeball, dude. You’ve been fudging stuff this whole argument. And again, your excuse is not valid. Posting pre-rendered images from years after OoT came out is bunk.
>Okay then what were you referring to when you said they had a prototype ready?
The interview addressed in the DYKG video
>Why do you keep accusing me of being anti-Nintendo?
I explained that here
Going to reply to you less now because I'm not a janny so I don't have to be here and you disgust me on multiple levels
It officially sold below expectations and half as much as LA, which had a shoestring budget
So I guess to sum everything up: Do you like Wind Waker or not? I like Ocarina of Time, dislike Majora’s Mask and adore Wind Waker. Miyamoto was wrong.
Fact Check: Wind Waker still sold well, just not as well as Ocarina.
>You're just derailing Nintendo-related threads with negativity for the sake of it (also mental illness, nothing to play on your systems)
Buddy, this whole argument boils down to you liking Ocarina more and me preferring Wind Waker. Why do you keep accusing me of being anti-Nintendo?
Miyamoyo legit has horrible instincts sometimes. Koizumi should’ve been put in charge of Zelda instead of Aonuma.
Wait, wait, I just reread this post and NOPE. If you’re referring to the Space World Link vs Gandondorf tech demo, that is NOT a prototype. Dishonest post.
>a klabautermann snuck in and finished the golf island at night
The only thing that makes zelda more soul is looking up how it's made
That Tetra game looks much better than I thought. Shame about the GBA shit
I think you’re better off posting Link’s model from Melee, which is based on his OoT look. I’d say it looks like Nintendo’s typical anime fantasy style shared by Fire Emblem.
Looks pretty toon-inspired to me.
My point was that if the N64 hardware had been capable, the N64 Zelda games most likely would’ve looked much more like an anime. Similar to what they’ve settled on with BotW/TotK. They were never meant to look 'realistic'. As a result, the NPC designs in OoT especially are kind of all over the place.
Just jumping in to say that it’s EXTREMELY dishonest to post these pre-rendered images from tech demos and such rather than from the game itself. For shame.
Future Boy Conan was clearly a massive inspiration on Wind Waker, both in terms of setting and story (flooded world, leaving home segment, rescue mission, stealth tower sequence, etc.) and that anime was proto-Ghibli. That said, the character style in the Little Prince and the Eight-Headed Dragon might be a clearer basis for Wind Waker, but the actual world and story is effectively a fantasy version of Future Boy Conan.
Going a little further on Future Boy Conan since there's actually remarkably little online about how much of it got redone in Wind Waker. I don't want to have to take a shitload of screenshots, but the entire Forsaken Fortress is taken almost wholesale from the anime. Conan sets off on a ship to infiltrate the heavily-guarded Triangle Tower (in the city-state of Industria), where his friend Lana is locked in a room high above. He discovers her location by spotting the gulls flying near her window, lit up as a portal of light in the night, knowing she had an affinity for the birds and could speak with them. He sneaks through the tower, climbing up to her window, before the two escape while being searched for with bright yellow spotlights.
I’m intrigued. I’ll give it a watch.
I'd highly recommend. It's a really great anime, and if you're a fan of Wind Waker it's cool to see spot what the devs lifted from the show.
Not vidya, but Akage no Anne is also another really good, light-hearted series from the same studio. It's based on Anne of Green Gables, and though I haven't read the books I'm quite certain that it stays faithful to them.
Funny, Conan's an even bigger inspiration on Megaman Legends, that series wears the similarities on its sleeve. And once you know what it's about, you can piece together the similarities between it and Wind Waker. It also happens to feature the oldest Goku-type anime protag, the sequence of events of the first episode and Conan himself is damn near identical to Dragon Ball's beginning.
I've never played Megaman Legends, but I'd say the exact same about Wind Waker. I imagine both simply pulled different elements.
>oldest Goku-type anime protag
Man I'm pretty sure the hero's journey archetype has existed a lot longer than Future Boy Conan. A Link to the Past was much later, but it's also very similar in how it opened, and you're going to find the pattern in all kinds of stories across literal millenia. The archetype always begins with the hero having to leave his cloistered, comfortable life, optionally with his attachment being severed somehow---which death does perfectly.
No I don't mean hero's journey, I mean the quintessential shonen MC. Meaning some super powered strong retarded boy from bumfuck nowhere that doesn't understand what's going in the story he gets thrown in and beats everyone up with his abnormal powers to protect the other MCs who do care because they're his friends. Also see Naruto, Luffy, Gon.
As a bonus both Goku and Conan grew up with their grandpas and their journeys are kickstarted by a fateful meeting with a girl after hunting a big fish hmmmm.
I didn’t make that thread but OoT’s character models are definitely a weird mixed bag of styles.
>I didn’t make that thread
I think you did. I also think you need to take your meds and stop shitposting your life away in Nintendo threads. It's annoying because sometimes I think I'm having an honest exchange and then I realize "oh, it's this lifeless psycho again"
If it's because you're a janny so you have to stick around here all day, then just stop being a janny. Not like you get a cent for it or like it's real authority when everyone can just avoid your bans
Anon, I’m in a Nintendo thread defending Wind Waker lmao.
That's hyperrealism compared to Wind Waker and what toon graphics the N64 was perfectly capable of doing
Pretty much all Zelda games since ALttP have had cartoony characters interacting with a 'realistic' world. The chibi designs in ALttP and the Game Boy Zeldas aren’t actually what the characters look like.
Who designs a temple so that you have to approach it from the side in a cramped alley way overlooking the side of some guys house?
>The controversy over Wind Waker’s art style alone shows that it wasn’t the safe choice
The toon thing also permates every aspect of the game and isn't merely visual
>animations
>wind mechanics
>picking up oversized enemy weapons
>Link being launched into the air by buds
>using a dragon's tail for your grappling hook
and a million other things
Correct
People say they do safe rehashes because Nintendo likes to lean on its popular brands when trying new ideas a lot of the time. They could have made a new IP with the cel shaded style that was an adventure game on an open sea in a flooded world, but they decided to go with the Zelda branding. Not saying that’s wrong, but to people on the outside looking in, Nintendo makes lots of Mario and Zelda games instead of “innovating” by constantly creating new worlds and characters.
Star Fox Adventures is a good game too.
Don't you play as Krystal for like 5 minutes?
The first 20 minutes of the game or so
GameCube was peak vidya
I love Sunshine. The only thing the game is missing is a blue coin counter to show how many you are missing in each stage.
Odyssey is the worst 3D Mario, but that's not retro.
Did they add a counter to the Switch port?
Yes
This shows you haven't played it since it launched and you were a kid.
Worst 3D Mario game, and the only one that's a complete chore to 100% that practically requires a guide to do so.
>no blue coin counter
>some blue coins require arbitrarily spraying water at an object but only when a specific episode is picked otherwise it will never spawn
I also think its a good game though, it just doesnt hold hold up to the others.
>Zeldurfags hijack another thread
As expected. This board is such a makeshift Discord shitshow.
I'm starting to think the majority of the regulars on /vr/ who discuss Zelda are /vg/ rejects that just discuss the same things with the same comparisons with the same arguments thread after thread after thread.
i know?
>Mario Sunshine thread
>derails into a Zelda thread 8 posts in
What did you expect? Zeldurfags are some of the worst autists on this board next to Segatards and Sonicfags. These threads are just full of underaged and speedtrannies.
Cubies have the thinnest skin of all the console generations, and they will crawl out of the woodwork if you dare to imply their games are badly made, rushed, or not fun.
>50 % of posts made by people who don't like nintendo
>in a nintendo thread
>heh, they are so thin skinned
homosexual
You can like Nintendo and still think Wind Waker is a soulless rehash of OoT.
it doesn't get more soul than wind waker
This is hands down one of the best things ever in a Nintendo game:
%3D%3D
real. for me its the title theme though. did you know shiggy played the mandolin in it?
tf are you talking about? it just looks full of life
Still the best Zelda mobs. TP was also good but then everything after is trash
>zombies rocking leopard print undies
>trying to trick people who don't know Link will look in whatever direction you're tilting the analog stick when pressed against a wall
Now show his eyes doing that when he's not pressed against the wall.
How is that a trick? You need to calm down, friend.
The image is trying to imply Link's watching the shadows on his own, not that the player is making him do goofy eyeball tricks. There's no soul here.
>Wind Waker is a soulless rehash of OoT
Are you confusing WW with TP? It doesn't even make sense to call WW a clone of OoT, they're nothing alike. The way I see it, there are two styles of mainline Zelda games, one prioritizes exploration (TLoZ-WW-BotW-TotK), the other puzzles and combat (aLttP-OoT-MM-TP-SS).
He’s also ignoring the fact that every 3D Zelda game up to Skyward Sword followed the template set by A Link to the Past, ie:
>Forest/Fire/Water dungeons first
>major story event
>More dungeons
You guys need to stop posting like this.
Fuck you, it’s really not.
Sunshine = kino
Wind Waker = kino
Simple as.
I like that cool water shotgun move you can do by clicking R down and pressing A. I chain that shit in the air and wipe out a lot of sludge in a hurry.
Being able to slightly wet the ground and then dive onto it to rocket forwards is also good.
>it's a good game
but not good enough
Sunshine gets too much hate. Super Mario 64 has its fair share of clunker stages too.
SM64 was a revolutionary game.
Still doesn’t mean it’s above criticism for some bad level design at times.
Wind Waker has been vindicated by history as a masterpiece that easily stands alongside Ocarina of Time. It’s okay to love both.
Shit compared to SM64 but still the second best retro platformer