>genre is called MMO RPG. >designed to rush you to endgame. >all you do is rinse and repeat raids and PvP forever

>genre is called MMO RPG
>designed to rush you to endgame
>all you do is rinse and repeat raids and PvP forever
why? actual RPGs aren't like this

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  1. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >the absolute state of
    who coined this moronic saying

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It's a fairly common saying when referring to something that used to be better. Not everything is coined by some 2004 eceleb, the world did exist before the Internet zoomie

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >It's a fairly common saying when referring to something that used to be better
        By who is the question being asked

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          hitler. yes i am a holocaust survivor

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I think Abraham Lincoln coined the term with, "The absolute state of these Southerners".

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >It's a fairly common saying when referring to something that used to be better.
        Circa. 2019
        It wasn't used until the last few years as clickbait youtube video titles.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Tell me you're a newbie without telling me you're a newbie.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >2004 eceleb
        stfu you moron you know nothing

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Mark Antony

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Look at the fricking state of you.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I think it's British slang that goes back decades. At the very least it was used on Ganker like 15 years ago

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Kino English phrase that makes people seethe.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It's a British saying. Same with "absolute unit" for a physically imposing man.
      t. English

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Ganker popularized it on Ganker whenever a team chokes

  2. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Because MMORPGs are designed for people who don't like RPGs, which makes a lot of money, hence the genre's stagnation

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Hardcore gamers, metagamers are a problem when you're trying to do something comfy like an RPG. Combat, combat, combat when I care more about exploring the world to help npcs and discover lore

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >MMORPGs are designed for people who don't like RPG
      they didn't used to be, old mmos were literally just multiplayer rpgs its only modern shit for literal morons (WoW and its clones) that are so focused on never making you interact with another human unless you're trying to make a meme esports career in raidgayging or whatever

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I cringe when images like this say grinding for bullshit is what makes an mmorpg an mmorpg, any gmod rp or gta rp server provides more of the social mmo experience without needing to waste 300 hours grinding for the snail wiener of doom

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >RPshit
          >noo i have to put effort in to get a shiny weapon it should be given to me for free right now
          yeah get filtered homosexual stay out of my genre

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            everyone is staying out of your shitty boomer genre, that's why you gays keep crying that it's dead

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              yes yes zoomerboy keep eating that slop

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Grinding isnt really that much of effort tho.
            Hard quest - yes. Some class mechanics check (like tower in Legion) - yes. Traveling to frickshitwhere to get some special item - yes.
            But simply sitting on your ass for weeks killing same mobs again and again isnt difficult or complicated, its just tedious.
            Also gameplay like "grind shit 12 hours daily" kills the game ven faster, because the only people who can and want to do this are poopsocking nolifers, wich are extremely small part of any MMO population.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >UH YOU MEAN I HAVE TO GRIND IN THIS GRIND GENRE
              do you also complain about gambling in a casino you fricking moron

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >grind genre
                I hate you. The very idea of you. You walking cancer.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                mmorpgs don't have to be THE GRIND GENRE goofy ass Black, boomers that think that's what an mmo is are what continue holding the genre back until someone like Riot comes along and changes it like they've stated about wowgays being an outdated target audience

                Its an RPG you mongoloid. You clearly don't want to play RPGs so frick off.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >he never played a low level game
                You are a casual shitter and a caveman.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I have never meant this as much as much as I mean it right here, right now.

                have a nice day. Sincerely. You are the cancer killing videogames.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >i have a literal neanderthal brain and i can only enjoy myself if i see numbie get bigger hahah numbie get big hahah! BIG NUMBIE YES AFTER THREE HOUR I GET ONE MORE NUMBIE HEHEHEHEEE NUMBIE

                Off yourself, mongoloid.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Ganker is the only place I encounter the elusive statgay in the wild that thinks an rpg is entirely about stats but doesn't actually give a frick about role play, even /tg/ knows better

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Nah, tabletop gaming is still full of these subhumans who think a game about rolling dice and making stories based on that is all about efficient character builds. Even with the influx of moron normies from Critical Role, these munchkin mouthbreathers still pollute the space.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >RPG = grind
                homie u gay

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                mmorpgs don't have to be THE GRIND GENRE goofy ass Black, boomers that think that's what an mmo is are what continue holding the genre back until someone like Riot comes along and changes it like they've stated about wowgays being an outdated target audience

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Riot comes along
                You are the stupidest and most gullible person in the thread. gratz

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I don't care much what you think, riot is the only company making an mmo right now that has experience making hit games and they know their audience

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >know their audience
                morons? I guess we will be getting another wow level of dogshit game to ruin mmos even further huh

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Their "hit" games are literally just the same shit that already exists but with an ugly skin and obscene amounts of marketing and constant pushing of e-sports.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                well why the frick you complain about genre being dead?
                boomers who played MMOs in 00's cant (and wont) play anymore cause grinding several hours daily pretty much impossible for anyone with any life besides that MMO
                zoomers wont play MMOs cause they arent used to mind-numbing "grind those skeletons for 8 hours using 2 abilities" gameplay
                at this point MMO is just a genre without any significant audience

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                > impossible for anyone with any life besides that MMO
                weird how jobs magically came into existence within the past 20 years, like no one had a job to pay for ultima online, everquest, or ff11 its weird how those games existed huh
                >zoomers wont play MMOs cause they arent used to mind-numbing "grind those skeletons for 8 hours using 2 abilities" gameplay
                and yet they eat up the slop of grinding multiple battlepasses for fomo shit, curious..

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >ultima online, everquest, or ff11
                what was playercount of those?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Pretty good for the time before gaming was forced to be slop for the lowest common denominator.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >slop

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                You seem to know a lot about reddit maybe you should go back.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >at this point MMO is just a genre without any significant audience
                I said this earlier about how mmos right now don't even know what their target audience is supposed to be, the pvp sucks, pve sucks, and rp sucks, so they just shit out some weird daily content with no clue what will actually work. On the bright side Riot flat out said they think the current mmo audience is moronic and is going to the drawing board to figure out what an mmo designed for untapped zoomer audiences would be like

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                There is no untapped MMO audience. MMOs as a concept are almost entirely pointless in an era where everyone does their socialization on other ubiquitous and immediately accessible platforms.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                The most popular games being played right now are large scale multiplayer games of dumbass kids running around talking to eachother like roblox, minecraft, rust, and fortnite
                The potential market for mmos is huge if they stop trying to make them for 50 year old fossils chasing unicorns of their youth and instead looked at what's currently popular

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                What makes you think these kids would want to add more rpg elements to the games they already enjoy?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Stuff like scum and rust are already RPGs.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                rpg doesn't have to mean the game now sucks with boring shit, it can just as easily be rp like planetside 2 or eve online where once you have large groups of people together they start naturally forming different roles

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Kids "play" these games primarily for the socialization aspect, not for the gameplay. They don't actually like video games and won't play anything that doesn't have voice chat, because for them it's just a way of virtually hanging out; the activity itself doesn't really matter to them and needs to be as brain-off as possible. MMORPGs can't function like that, they require too much focus and attention to the game itself.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >won't play anything that doesn't have voice chat, because for them it's just a way of virtually hanging out
                zamn the kids these days like games for mmo reasons more than mmo boomers

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                when you're playing the same game for literal YEARS you most probably will go crazy about effectiveness and shit

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                at that point boomers are supposed to pivot into playing arpgs in retirement

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >but what about my character? i played it since 2005! muh mounts muh character titles muh rare items!

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      its stagnate since multiplayer is no longer a novelty and then you pair up mmo combat with other games and its just not up to par. The only unique things would be the bosses but everything else is just mediocre.

      Until the tech catches up i think the "future" for mmos is just less people in a combat situation for a more hardcore/better combat system.

      Like a party of 5-8 people is how the combat system is designed to so they can make the combat more modern and up to date.

      Gives them more room to make fights even more unique

  3. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    when you have
    a rp server
    mmo
    rpg
    rp
    server

    hopefully we get a multiplayer mmo online rpg rp server

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Not a single video game RPG has been designed for RPing in the tabletop pen and paper sense. This includes MMORPGs old and new. If you can't affect the state of the world you can't RP. There are no consequences to your RPing at which point it is cringe.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        The original EQ was unironically pretty good for RP.
        >Tons of flavor skills like languages and alcohol tolerance to add flavor to social situations
        >In depth faction system that let you befriend dungeon enemies and make permanent enemies of town guards
        >NPC of different races were often outright racist and would refuse service to certain races.
        Yeah they dropped most of this later to chase WoW money, but its sad reminder of what the genre could have become.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          EQ and UO are the closest we got but I don't think they're very good for RP still. How the factions and races work in EQ is great and all but I don't think it is enough. I just don't think video games are a very good foundation for RPing. They're too limited in what you are allowed to do. You can in theory RP within the extreme limits of the game but I don't find that a very satisfying experience.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        There's a game called Illarion that forces you to submit a fleshed out response to a writing prompt for manual review in order to make an account and start playing because of how much it's focused on roleplaying.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Kenshi may unironically be the closest modern-ish game we have for freeform sandbox RPG.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >pointless empty indieslop
          uhhh no thanks

  4. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    MMos as a genre only work if you have free time and only play them and nothing else.
    And this used to be just fine when most of us ware in school and had free time.
    Nowadays there is way to much competition. And the kids nowadays play different kinds of time consuming games.
    And even the top 5 MMOs have made themself less time consuming to play unless you specifically want to grind.
    You can easily play FFXIV and WOW casual and just enjoy all non hardcore raid content.

    I am pretty sure 90% of people who play XIV and WOW are adults.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      > And the kids nowadays play different kinds of time consuming games.
      No, it's literally just gacha shit took MMOs place in the scheme of things because modern kids are antisocial and don't want to talk to others.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >You can easily play FFXIV and WOW casual and just enjoy all non hardcore raid content.

      Ironically, even the 'hardcore' raid content only takes a few hours a week. It's the casual content that takes hundreds of hours. Do you have all your relics done yet? Got your racing chocobo mask? Completed your Triple Triad collection?

      Casual and hardcore have pretty much swapped definitions.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        the only hardcore thing in hardcore content is the hardcore gatekeeping
        >people demanding raid gear for ST run

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I would go even more casual than that and just say the main story takes 300 hours to get through which is completely ludicrous, a clunky shirt story filled with 99% singleplayer mmo tier filler is dogshit to demand of a normie to get through when they can go play bg3 and play a comparatively outstanding 200 hour single player rpg
        Every new person I've seen drop an mmo was within 15 minutes or less because it's that obvious that it's a bullshit game in that time frame

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Ironically, even the 'hardcore' raid content only takes a few hours a week.
        It's still tens of hours of straight raiding to clear the hardest content, and guilds that can genuinely clear cutting edge insisting on a 3 hour a week raid night schedule are few, far between, and prone to failure.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          This is just low IQ cope, back in BfA, I transferred realms to do CE Jaina, 5 weeks (15hrs total raid time) and it was done. People barely had mythic tier pieces.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Try it again in War Within and see the level of attrition we're dealing with.

  5. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    play dead early 2000s mmos

  6. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    there's a reason most MMOs are simply referred to as MMO now and not MMORPG.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      there's nothing MMO about them either

      XIV having other players act as NPCs in your world isn't multiplayer or massive, it's barely online in the sense that it is basically an always online DRM

  7. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Unironically raid homosexuals.
    People would rather be at "max" level and grind item gear level instead of being at "not max" level and grinding levels doing the literal exact same things.

  8. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    MMOs are competitive so grinding to be best is a core mechanic, in single player rpgs is just you and the npcs

  9. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    What they call MMORPG nowadays aren't actual MMORPGs.

  10. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    That's what the MMO playerbase demanded. It's why Classic WoW will never feel like it used to, the players changed, not MMOs. Every multiplayer game suffers from these insufferable tryhard metahomosexuals btw I swapped exclusively to singleplayer and coop years ago.

  11. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    MMOs were literally better when leveling was a journey and endgame was something most players would have never reached. The prospect of getting to a higher level spot and equipping cooler gear were the carrots, it worked and it was cool and satisfying. It kept most of the playerbase around a general level range where they would most interact with each other. People who wanted to blaze through the entire world map as the tutorial only to grind the last 5% of content for 1k hours then b***h that there's no content left to do are the homosexuals that ruined MMORPGs.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >MMOs were literally better when leveling was a journey and endgame was something most players would have never reached.
      Yes.

      WoW introduced the endgame mentality with their casualization of the leveling process, allowing everyone to solo it and focusing on end game updates and expansions.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I mean just look at the general economy of most MMOs. Non endgame shit is worthless, the only thing that's worth anything at all to a new player is the entry level to endgame shit gear that they will spend the next few hundred hours slowly upgrading just to do a boss 10% faster. Back then a lv50 player could make a lot of money selling shit to a lv30 player, a lv 30 player could sell shit to a lv20 player, people actually used most of the gear in the game because most of the playerbase was in the early to mid game.

      Now you're either max level and endgame gear selling entry level endgame gear or you're entry level endgame gear and you have nothing to sell at all until you get to the same point of the people selling you the gear you need. Or nowadays there's just no selling at all and it's only grinding, it's fricking gay inorganic trash that makes the entire world of the MMO not matter.

      >MMOs were literally better when leveling was a journey and endgame was something most players would have never reached.
      Yes.

      WoW introduced the endgame mentality with their casualization of the leveling process, allowing everyone to solo it and focusing on end game updates and expansions.

      asiatic MMOs played a huge part in this too with their tendency to utterly powercreep any design philosophies the game had in it's early stages. The only MMO i've ever seen that's tried it's hardest to stick to it's roots is OSRS.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Not only that but most asiatic MMOs followed the lead of Lineage 2 with the soulless world design that was zones filled with distinct areas of mobs where level went up so you could just hop through these to level up. The world had no stakes, it only served as a place for the player to level up.

        Compare L2's world to EQ, FFXI or even old WoW. L2's world feels fake. It is not very immersive. Most of the asiatic games that followed that did it even worse, like they doubled down on that aspect of the zone design.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          You didn't play L2 in any major capacity, especially during c1-2. It was immersive as frick at its time, world was incredibly dangerous and there was a fricking lot to discover or just poke around, map was gigantic.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I tried but stopped because I had better games to play back then.

            I'm not saying it is all bad but it is definitely where most of the shitty Korean MMO tropes got started.

  12. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Massively multiplayer
    >Entire genre caters to antisocial losers that want to play the games alone, never chat and never engage in group content
    >Any group content that exists is handled with dungeon finders, so you never have to talk to another person
    >All trading is done through impersonal auction houses
    >Any criticism of this is immediately met with the autistic shrieking of "REEEEE BUT MUH EXP/HOUR" or "BUT ITS SO CONVENIENT MUH GOLD/HOUR"
    It's the same level of addict brains that demand battle passes and gacha titles. They just want to get the dopamine hit from seeing the number go up, and it doesn't matter if they have to drag the entire genre down into the shitter to get it. MMO's were better in the past because the playerbases were better. People still went outside occasionally and would play these games with people they knew in real life, and because they had that smallest experience with social interaction it would translate into a virtual world that felt like it was being populated by actual human beings, not just dopamine addicts trying to level up by themselves in a corner.

    The appeal of MMO's was that for once instead of scripted and lifeless NPC's, you could have a world that was populated by people. As it turns out, people are more like NPC's than NPC's ever were. At least NPC's can give dialogue and be scripted to interact with you.

    And don't even fricking start with me about MMO apologists coming in with 'NOO YOU CAN STILL HAVE SOCIAL INTERACTION YOU HAVE TO TRY HARDER JUST JOIN SOME DISCORDS AN-' I shouldn't have to try hard to get the experience that these games are supposed to give, and I sure as frick shouldn't have to join any discords either.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Why wtf is that webm

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >wholesome husband/wife couple transporting food from father to mother so she can feed her kids
      odd but cute

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >MMOs were literally better when leveling was a journey and endgame was something most players would have never reached
      For all the hate I give Korean MMOs, I really enjoyed just dicking around killing stuff with friends online. WoW was also great for this, especially since exploring THE World of warcraft was an actually rich experience.
      As you said, The leveling aspect in MMOs now is the worst part of the game, when it should be one of the richest parts. Leveling now feels like a time waste just until you get to max level and enter the endless formulaic grind they've adopted a few expansions back.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      genre caters to antisocial losers that want to play the games alone, never chat and never engage in group content
      That's the people who don't want to play MMORPGs but were marketed to play them post-WoW. They're playing the games that were neutered in order to cater to them, people who don't want to play MMORPGs. That's why the genre is so fricked.

      Back in the day they were THE social game. Social media wasn't a thing yet so these games were often used to make new friends and keep in touch with current ones.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      it is hilarious that antisocial schizos like you complain about mmos not being as social anymore

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Oh, you want games to be more social? That must mean you're an antisocial schizo!
        >How so?
        >B...because you just are okay???
        I'm a married man with a good job and friends I meet up with IRL. By anyone's standards Im a bog standard normie. Don't project onto me you fricking rodent.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        it's always the people who are so caustic and unlikeable that they needed old systems where people were forced to hold their hands

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >censorship rope is getting tighter every year
      >wtf why nobody chats

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        this is pretty true, if I can get banned, losing all the money I spent on the game, all my items and time invested for offending someone then I'll just not talk and level silently in the corner, the trannies can lick each other's axewounds and I'll just mute them

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        that's part of it definitely, but it's also the fact that if you talk and distinguish yourself from the anonymous sea of other players and use your ign anywhere else you're likely to have someone swat you or send you a cum tribute

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >have someone swat you or send you a cum tribute
          I'm not worried about either of those things but it is annoying that if you get into an argument with someone or whatever then there's a good chance that the autist will start stalking you, trying to track down all your social media and any speck of personal information about you so they can post it everywhere and use it against you, or start messaging your friends and family about what you said in a video game, god forbid you have a job and then they start sperging at your company too, just like no thanks, I'm not dealing with the chronically online fricking autists and their games of canceling people, I'll just turn the chat off

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I still play retail FFXI where there is absolutely no moderation whatsoever and still nobody chats

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Because everyone is on discord.
          Censorship has nothing to do with it.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            So we agree that anon is a homosexual

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Cause and effect. Besides, not everything requires discord, i.e BG / 5ppl / LFR, and yet you can't see any good trashtalking, why's that?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      All true but one thing I think should also be mentioned is that these days the people who you are most likely willing to run into that do socialize in current day MMOs are absolutely not the type of people you actually want to talk with. It's extremely hard to find a normal bro who just wants to play games in the sea of degenerate ERP gays and literal schizos that make up the playerbases of today.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      XIV in a nutshell.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      genre caters to antisocial losers that want to play the games alone, never chat and never engage in group content
      it's worth mentioning that every single time a game in this genre has tried to force social interaction in a non-disposable pug way it has been an absolute dogshit experience because people are largely moronic buttholes.
      given the opportunity and without an explicit reason to act in a socially "good" manner, players will abuse their fellow man and responding to their barbs in any manner is typically taken as permission to spend an unhinged amount of time stalking and maligning them.
      decades of this have led to a culture of not talking and not interacting with other players lest you incur their gaymer rage and tools like discord and the prevalence of consuming "second monitor" content made it even easier to ignore other players.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        You're not wrong, people have gotten worse. But, that's likely because antisocial behavior has been skyrocketing. The playerbases of older games usually had intact families and real life routines. Entire generations of maladjusted "raised by ipad" children are online now and so all you get is that aggressive antisocial behavior. Older games didn't have to force social interaction, it just happened naturally. Honestly, I don't know what the solution is besides requiring timestamped proof that each player has touched grass in the last 24 hours or what, but you can't fix MMO's with the current playerbase.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        You're not wrong, people have gotten worse. But, that's likely because antisocial behavior has been skyrocketing. The playerbases of older games usually had intact families and real life routines. Entire generations of maladjusted "raised by ipad" children are online now and so all you get is that aggressive antisocial behavior. Older games didn't have to force social interaction, it just happened naturally. Honestly, I don't know what the solution is besides requiring timestamped proof that each player has touched grass in the last 24 hours or what, but you can't fix MMO's with the current playerbase.

        And the major cause of this is auto-matchmaking and cross-server groups. Being a dick carries no consequences because 90% you have no idea who the people in your group are and being a moron doesn't matter because you'll most likely never see them again after you finish whatever instanced content your doing. Even if they kick you, you can just queue for the dungeon again and get dropped in with another group of random people who might as well be NPCs.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          THIS
          Matchmaking and finders in general in MMOS is why modern MMOs are fricking dead. You want to go on adventures with people whom you may want to make friends with, or try meeting up with people so you can tackle dungeons, or become a specialized class made only to do one thing? Too fricking bad. Here's a finder that tells you that you have to play the game like an e-sports venue where you're statistically going to be matched with someone you will be incapable of even messaging because they'll be on another shard/instance.
          You'll also be expected to perform within the top 1% of players in your class even if you've never touched this content before

          Hope you weren't expecting to stay around and watch the story or cutscenes! Get kicked noob, watch that shit on youtube. We're here to rush through for the 50th time.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            matchmaking isn't the problem, there are millions of zoomers making friends in shitty massively popular games right now from matchmaking, the problem is mmos suck

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Hope you weren't expecting to stay around and watch the story or cutscenes! Get kicked noob, watch that shit on youtube. We're here to rush through for the 50th time.
            Another self-made problem, since most of the people in the group only queued it to run their dailies.
            Holy frick I dailies and weeklies.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I'm not at rock bottom yet. That guy isn't me. Neither is Anthony Burch.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >play niche old ass MMO
        >tell the veteran players I'm new and don't know where the dungeon they're doing is at
        >one comes back and leads me there manually
        >get deleted by a high level trap I didn't know was there
        >veteran player comes back and revives me even though I'm entirely unnecessary to finish
        >these aren't one-off occurrences, and I can recount multiple examples of each
        >only one singular solitary instance of me getting kicked out of a group
        >leader was using a temporary experience bonus potion
        >he explained why he couldn't really wait for me to keep up with the group
        >still had the patience to wait for me to say I understood, wish them all luck, and leave the party myself
        You're just used to playing with children.

  13. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Because devs are STILL only imitating a game from 20 years ago. A game that wasn't even popular to begin with because of it's gameplay.

    Until MMOs start trying to be real RPGs, MMOs will stay dead. Simple as that. Socialization online isn't novel anymore and so people can't pretend grinding the same shit content over and over to see a number go up is fun.
    But if it hasn't changed in 20 years, it's not changing anytime soon.

  14. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    play older games and private servers

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >private servers
      >full of trannies and metaBlack folk efficiencymaxxing
      >get clique'd out by pinoy, brazilian and chinese exploiters/botters/cheaters
      >rmt rampant
      Private serves are not the same as the OG experience.

  15. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Anyone got that infopic of that old poop-sock raid group who influenced future mmo raids to be designed for no lifers?

  16. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    1. MMOs attract the highest IQ players
    2. The IQ continues to drop year after year

    QED
    You're a homosexual

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      more like mmos attract the autistic trannies who have no friends irl to play games with

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        That's what I said?

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          autistic trannies are not high iq, they just get obsessive about a particular subject, usually a subject that nobody else cares about so they can pretend that they're good at it, or they would win world championships in games that actually matter

  17. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    how's mabinogi?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Completely broken since they added the Blaid's questline thing that just basically skips the entire game for you by shitting out XP.
      You can just ignore it but the problem is, no one else does, so you won't find anyone else doing any content that's not endgame.

      The engine also hasn't been updated ever so it's... Really, REALLY shitty in a variety of ways.
      It's a shame, because Mabinogi has a lot of ideas that no other MMOs do. Even the combat, as simplistic as it is, is far more strategic/interesting than most MMOs with their 50 buttons that all do the same shit.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Completely broken since they added the Blaid's questline thing that just basically skips the entire game for you by shitting out XP.
        that's the age old problem of "how do you get late comers quickly up to par with existing players?" no mmorpg has really resolved without resorting to skipping old content. not to mention alts as people don't want to replay the same shit over and over again.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          The answer to that question is 'you don't'.
          This idea that new players need to catch up as quickly as possible is cancer.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            It is a problem spawned by the obsession of endgame. It didn't use to be a problem when the journey was the game.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            This. If you have a friend joining the game after you've reached max level, just frickin' create a new character and play together.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            That problem only EXISTS because games treat everything until end game as training wheels. Your MMORPG needs to be meaningful beyond endless raiding and endless PvP.

            Except that is an actual problem in any mmo. Eventually playerbase will get very top heavy and new blood will find themselves playing alone and begging in world chat or whatever for help with bottlenecks that require group. There is no elegant solution to that.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              If the playerbase gets 'top heavy', then the game is poorly designed.
              Being endgame/max level/whatever should never trivialize the rest of the content.
              It's not complicated. If your max levels are not out there, using the open world and doing stuff, and are just waiting on their weekly rotation of instances, your game is shit.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Then every mmo is poorly designed. Playerbase getting top heavy happened in literally every mmo to ever release, including korean infinite grind simulators.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Every MMO is poorly designed
                Mostly, yeah. Kind of the point of the thread. If a game were well designed, playing through it should be fun, and therefore, I should want try it again with different strategies/paths, etc, so I reroll or make and alt.

                But MMOs NEVER make the core content fun. It's all just a checklist to get to endgame. So yeah, most MMOs are designed like shit. They're too afraid to let players experience things that others can't.
                >quest, investigate this haunted mansion
                >a rogue can pick locks and choose multiple points of entry, and sneak around to avoid stronger enemies
                >a paladin/cleric has powerful undead repelling powers/spells, which makes them extremely effective in this kind of mission
                >a warlock passes a lot of lore checks and knows what kind of enemies are haunting the place and how to capture them to use them as summons later

                This kind of shit. Developers are terrified of doing this, because players will go 'HURR SO I'M PLAYING A RANGER SO I'M NOT GOOD AT THIS PARTICULAR QUEST AND CAN'T SEE ANY OF THIS UNIQUE CONTENT OTHER CLASSES GET HURRR UNBALANCED SHITTY GAME BUFF ME BUFF ME BUFF ME, etc.
                Same reason factions in MMOs are always shit and never do anything. Players piss and shit themselves when even the slightest suggestion that one faction might be stronger, however momentarily, than the other one.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                we should have gotten a game like this by now, just a crpg in terms of your characters choices mattering but with large servers in persistent world, make a bg3 style mmo already devs

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Yes, we should've.
                Unfortunately, BG3 was only popular because it catered to waifutards and normie shippers/femcels in equal measures, despite legitimately being a really solid RPG gameplay wise. You can do some really creative strategic shit in combat, and interactions outside of it also have a ton of variety and possibilities based on your character and spells.

                But all people talk about is muh romances, muh clickbait bear sex, blah blah blah so I'm not holding my breath. Even Ganker does this, reduces the game to a singular meme cutscene that doesn't show anything and is literally 0.01% of the game. Nobody actually gives a frick about how good of an RPG it actually is.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >BG3

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                dude haha he talked about the bear meme and then... get this... you posted it haha isn't that just the funniest thing?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Yes, it is fun.

                >it's a justifiable concern
                That's not the game's fault, like my post said. That's players optimizing the fun out of everything.
                Me? If I was designing a game like WoW that featured faction conflict as it's centerpiece, I'd make it that if a server ever gets like that, it shuts down, lore-wise. Hell, I'd make that the driving force of the entire game.

                >Horde reduces Alliance to 10-5% of one server.
                >Serverwide announcement says Alliance have gotten so buttucked, there is now permadeath active (with character creation timeouts so people can't cheat it)
                >If the population doesn't stabilize, a cutscene plays or whatever, explaining how the horde captured a vital part of the world/did something massive and gained huge power.
                >server resets, everything is wiped, maybe have some sort of system where players of the winning faction get some sort of bonus to the next character they make (not a level bonus, just some convenience and/or cosmetic shit)
                >this continues until the new expansion is announced
                >Blizzard tallied all the alliance/horde victories across all servers and created the narrative/updated the world to reflect that.

                There. Now it's really world of WARcraft. Maybe some extra things here and there to help prevent curbstomps, but nothing major. The story will unfold however it goes. Plenty of people enjoy, no, prefer playing on a losing side, struggling, etc. It would be lots of fun. It would make EVE look like a children's game.

                Letting the side that piled on win is a good idea. Dunno about flat out nuking the game. Maybe introduce schisms in the lore, so the winning alliance spliters up and the biggest polulation race goes solo or allies up with some race they enslaved from the other faction or something.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                All good ideas and again, the kind of stuff WoW shoud've been playing with. Instead, nothing matters, it's all just pointless grind so you can get to endgame, so you can do the same raids over and over to get a 0.1% dps increase.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >points out morons in Ganker disregarding a game entirely because of a 5 second scene meant to be a joke
                >out comes the literal mouthbreather proving him right
                Can't make this shit up

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Players piss and shit themselves when even the slightest suggestion that one faction might be stronger, however momentarily, than the other one.
                In a game with faction PvP, that is a justifiable concern. Just look at classic WoW, servers literally became 90:10 for either faction and if you were the 10 you'd just get fricked and farmed by the 90 whilst travelling or questing.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                my friends got me to try classic and tbc classic with them. the game is shit and the servers were a fricking mess. god they dropped the ball so fricking hard so many times

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >it's a justifiable concern
                That's not the game's fault, like my post said. That's players optimizing the fun out of everything.
                Me? If I was designing a game like WoW that featured faction conflict as it's centerpiece, I'd make it that if a server ever gets like that, it shuts down, lore-wise. Hell, I'd make that the driving force of the entire game.

                >Horde reduces Alliance to 10-5% of one server.
                >Serverwide announcement says Alliance have gotten so buttucked, there is now permadeath active (with character creation timeouts so people can't cheat it)
                >If the population doesn't stabilize, a cutscene plays or whatever, explaining how the horde captured a vital part of the world/did something massive and gained huge power.
                >server resets, everything is wiped, maybe have some sort of system where players of the winning faction get some sort of bonus to the next character they make (not a level bonus, just some convenience and/or cosmetic shit)
                >this continues until the new expansion is announced
                >Blizzard tallied all the alliance/horde victories across all servers and created the narrative/updated the world to reflect that.

                There. Now it's really world of WARcraft. Maybe some extra things here and there to help prevent curbstomps, but nothing major. The story will unfold however it goes. Plenty of people enjoy, no, prefer playing on a losing side, struggling, etc. It would be lots of fun. It would make EVE look like a children's game.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                if asmongolds zerg raped my faction, server, and character to permadeath I would uninstall the game and charge back my purchase in milliseconds

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Would you?
                Here's the thing, though. When permadeath activates, it also activates for the other faction.

                And I guarantee you the second that happened, you'd have 50 rogues hunting down Asmongoloid 24/7 and he'd either not be able to play the game or he'd die.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                And you think he wouldn't have morons trailing his ass 24/7 protecting him?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Have you played WoW?
                If even just 3 rogues jump on you from stealth, you are dead as frick. Let alone the fricking 50 or something you'd have trailing that idiot.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                permadeath pvpBlack folk like
                >uh well full loot permadeath pvp has never actually been tried
                you homosexuals get like one of these every few years and it dies because non autistic players dont want to be at the mercy of nolife mouthbreather homosexuals

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Have to go look for a server census on faction distribution before making a character
                That's even more meta-game shit and extremely unfun. The thought of some random e-celeb joining my server, fricking up the faction balance and causing my 500hr character to get wiped would kill any interest I had in such a game.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                see

                Would you?
                Here's the thing, though. When permadeath activates, it also activates for the other faction.

                And I guarantee you the second that happened, you'd have 50 rogues hunting down Asmongoloid 24/7 and he'd either not be able to play the game or he'd die.

                But also, it sounds like you're doing exactly the shit we're complaining about.
                >I'm only going to play the game if we're on equal footing and everything is perfectly balanced, because the only thing that matters is winning or losing!
                Funnily enough, e-celebs would be the ones who get fricked up the most from this.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                No, it's not about being on equal footing, it's about having morons who are only there to play the game for like a month having the ability to permanently frick me over because the devs paid a random e-celeb to check out the game or some shit. Constant server wipes and resets are inherently fricking garbage for MMORPGs anyway.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                The system would automatically cull e-celebs just by virtue of existing. Again, in this system, you are significantly more powerful than they are.
                >you, a nobody, can go anywhere, coordinate with people secret, learn what are current hotzones, and generally only face the usual pvp
                >some moron like Asmongoloid, with tens of thousands watching his every move, would probably be spawncamped to death anywhere he goes and this would only double if permadeath ever activates

                I disagree with you entirely. I think attaching value to 'how many hours' you put into a character is fricking garbage and a big reason why MMOs are shit. The only value your character has in modern MMOs is how long you've played them. That's fricking stupid. You can be dogshit at the game, never having done anything of note, not have a single strategic or creative bone in your body, but you've got 1000 hours on the game so you win.
                It's shit.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Yeah, but your entire system hinges on faction % so if an influx of morons join one side, it's over.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Maybe flood the loosing side with ubber strong NPCs that can assist the players as they go about? Then start to make the trade off the conquring side may be able to scrap unquie/valuable shit from the ultra god whatever alliance, but it also means even doing mundane shit as the horde will be met with extreme resistance and getting attacked by 10 30 level NPCs whenever you wipe your ass.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                That barely even possible in singleplayer games, let alone something that has to track persistent progression of thousands of players. We are nowhere near technology for making dwarf fortress adventure mode working simultaneously online with every one being on the same persistent map.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >we don't have the tech
                Nothing in my example would need 'persistent progression'.
                Even if it was non-instanced (instanced shit isn't a big of a deal as people make it out to be, even if I don't like it), tracking whether a door is locked or not, or giving a character a skillcheck when they passed a perception check to notice some ghost cum on the floor to see if they know what kind of ghost it is, isn't anything that needs any complicated tech or tracking.

                >not even singleplayer games do this
                Because a lot of singleplayer games are also creatively corrupt. You think Skyrim is a good RPG? Singleplayer devs are often just as lazy and uninspired. This doesn't have anything to do with technical limitations.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              The solution is a dynamic world/game. Something like how roguelike games shuffle up the content or how dayz's map channels people deeper as they get experience.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Correct. And ditching the vertical progression.
                A wolf is a wolf. A wolf should always be dangerous in the right circumstances. Sure, if you have a good armor and weapon, you can kill it quickly, but a pack of wolves can still surround you and take you down if you aren't careful.

                I don't like Souls games much, but that is something they do right. No moronic level bullshit attached to things. Things just ARE. Progression needs to be strategic. Maybe you're a fire mage with lots of AOE spells. Maybe you're wearing a shitton of armor and tank everything. Maybe you spec entirely into buffs and CC and control the fights. That's what progression should be about, customizing a character. Not upping a number that makes your attack do 12 damage instead of 10.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >There is no elegant solution to that.
              >DDO just looped progression
              >Hit max level
              >Set yourself back to level 1
              >Get a tiny boost for doing so
              >Boost is permanent for the rest of that character's existence
              >Boosts can be stacked
              >Remake character from the ground up
              >New race, class, stats, everything
              >Players always spread throughout every level range from looping with new builds
              >Has support for having multiple alts as well
              >Do enough quests on one character
              >Any future alts you make on that server start with more stat points
              >Future alts can be created above level 1
              >Capped characters are handy to keep for gathering leveling gear for alts or future lives
              >The entire leveling process means content can be developed for all levels
              >Massive amounts of variety in options for leveling at all ranges
              There's a ton more potential in MMOs than the people with money are willing to explore.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                DDO you mean Dragon's Dogma Online?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Dungeons and Dragons Online.
                Dragon's Dogma Online is dead officially, but has a private server.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Oh I had no idea it had that sort of system.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                god I wish mmos did the rebirth system more, its not really possible with how modern mmos force a storyline down your throat instead of being able to just chill and level at your own pace because you gotta rush rush rush to endgame and raid raid raid like its a fricking esport

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >with how modern mmos force a storyline down your throat
                That's a mistake that shouldn't be a thing.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I don't mind a story in an mmo. I think it should be focused more on like lore and worldbuilding than a directly in your face story where you are FORCED to do everything to progress. God knows I would have hated maplestory if I was literally not allowed to frick around and grind maps unless I did some stupid main scenario. There are quests that unlock areas sure but you dont NEED to do them.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Any sort of MSQ doesn't belong in an MMORPG. Leveling through questing is also a mistake. It was fun when WoW did it because it was new. Now it's tedious as hell.

                The occasional quest for lore, flavor and unlocks or special rewards are nice.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                > It was fun when WoW did it
                fricking lmao shut the frick up it was never good you stupid homosexual

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                It was a new alternative to grinding. It was fresh for a while but then everyone started copying it.

                >Leveling through questing is also a mistake.
                Why would this be bad way of gaining levels? I can understand if SOME quests shouldn't award exp, like collect 10 bear ass cheeks, the exp was from the killing the bears. The reward comes from handing it in.
                However if your quest is something like an escort quest or assembling some artifact. Shouldn't you be rewarded exp for completing a more difficult task than usual?

                Because inherently quests favor soloing and favoring soloing is bad for MMORPGs. Soloing can be possible but it should never be the focus.

                There's also the narrative disconnect of all these people doing the same quests but there never being any actual result or impact on the world when those quests are done. That's the prime reason why MSQ doesn't work in an MMORPG but the same applies to regular questing. That's why you can only do quests sparingly.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Because inherently quests favor soloing and favoring soloing is bad for MMORPGs. Soloing can be possible but it should never be the focus.
                Isn't in the opposite though? For example, if you were in area grinding mobs, not for a quest but for exp. If another player came by you'd be quite hostile to their presence, telling them to go away, or moving away yourself (maybe killing them if PVP was an option). While questing typically encourages grouping in order to avoid such scenario. No need to split up over a kill X quest when it counts equally while in a party.
                >There's also the narrative disconnect of all these people doing the same quests but there never being any actual result or impact on the world when those quests are done
                I'll agree with this though. Honestly if you have 100 chinese bot farmers in an area all doing the same kill quest, the animals should probably go extinct. Best idea I could come up with that also avoids the MSQ issue as well is to just have player driven quests. Rather than collect 60 mithril ore for some quartermaster, you're doing so for another player who posts that quest on a billboard. First to deliver the quest item reaps the rewards and you'd be incentivize to group up to finish it faster than other groups trying to complete the same quest.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Isn't in the opposite though? For example, if you were in area grinding mobs, not for a quest but for exp. If another player came by you'd be quite hostile to their presence, telling them to go away, or moving away yourself (maybe killing them if PVP was an option).
                Nta, but no, when that happens people usually group up anon. Have you never played a pre-2010 MMO?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Nta, but no, when that happens people usually group up anon.
                absolutely fricking not true
                >Have you never played a pre-2010 MMO?
                Have you? Bullying other people out of farm was a common occurrence in old MMOs. Even today in games like runescape people will immediately hop worlds if you show up to their farm so they dont have to share, or tell you to frick off and do so

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >absolutely fricking not true
                Absolutely is true. Assuming you or they are not already in a full party, grouping up to farm was common. Even in the few shitty F2P KMMOs that I've played like Flyff and Cabal it was common.
                >Have you? Bullying other people out of farm was a common occurrence in old MMOs. Even today in games like runescape people will immediately hop worlds if you show up to their farm so they dont have to share, or tell you to frick off and do so
                It wasn't, and comparing the mentality of MMORPG players today, regardless of the game, to the mentality of players in the past is a worthless comparison.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                telling people to get the frick out of your farm is standard and always has been
                >It wasn't, and comparing the mentality of MMORPG players today
                theyve been doing it for 20 years moron, the fact that it persists today should make it obvious why your moronic idea doesnt work

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I'm not saying it never happened, but it was far more common (at least for me) to group with the other couple of people farming or to get invited to a group that was already there.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Have you never played a pre-2010 MMO?
                I did.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Asking a board where the average age is 15, if they played a game genre 14+ years ago.
                Real big brains in here today

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Runescape, WoW-TBC when it live, can't think of any other major MMO at the time. Maybe it was just a WoW problem where the overworld mobs are very easy. But I remember very often getting into PVP battles with other players trying to do my Isle of queldanas daily quests on that small ass island. Given that wasn't grinding for exp but rather for rep.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Have you never played a pre-2010 MMO?
                I literally still have screenshots from 2007.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >If another player came by you'd be quite hostile to their presence
                You're still thinking of this from a soloing perspective. Yeah if you're solo grinding shit you don't want anyone to come contest your spot.

                In party grinding games an etiquette forms. You don't step on another party's toes if you don't want to be seen as an butthole. If a camp is taken you go elsewhere.

                >if you have 100 chinese bot farmers in an area all doing the same kill quest, the animals should probably go extinct.
                Would be so cool to see some game try this. I believe UO originally did something like this and it was a disaster because everything was dead but if you adjusted it in a way that over grinding an area makes it quiet down but then another area in the game becomes more active. Throw in some dynamic systems about how the monsters spawn and what kind of monsters can spawn and you could potentially get a cool dynamic world that keeps changing. If you get such a system functional you could possibly employ an anime style Adventurer's Guild providing quests for the active areas in the game dynamically in a way that makes sense in the context of a multiplayer game. All local adventurer's are tasked into this area to take care of the problem type of thing. That sort of quests could work.

                Player driven quests would be another interesting idea but I think it would have to exist without an AH because it's too easy to just buy shit you need then why would you task anyone to get them for you.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Because inherently quests favor soloing
                >make quest to kill strong enemy
                >enemy is made too strong for a single player to kill it
                >this somehow favors soloing simply by being a quest
                Are you high?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                And where are the MMORPGs where every quest requires a party? Party quests are rare if they exist at all. Sometimes you got those looping public events like Age of Reckoning but those are shit too.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >every quest requires a party
                what are you supposed to do if nobody doing those quests?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >And where are the MMORPGs where every quest requires a party?
                What does that have to do with your ridiculous claim that quests are inherently favor soloing?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Leveling through questing is also a mistake.
                Why would this be bad way of gaining levels? I can understand if SOME quests shouldn't award exp, like collect 10 bear ass cheeks, the exp was from the killing the bears. The reward comes from handing it in.
                However if your quest is something like an escort quest or assembling some artifact. Shouldn't you be rewarded exp for completing a more difficult task than usual?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >HP/MP of player/mobs is always the same
                >sidequests are rewarded with some items
                >'main' quests are rewarded with skillpoints
                why is it so hard to do something like this?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                That's literally how Maplestory is though. Every new class has a blockbuster introduction quest that leads you through levels 1-30 and it always takes around an hour to get through these shit quests.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I ment old maplestory, before big bang and shit.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Mabinogi does that kind of system, right?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                DDO seriously does and has so much cool fricking shit that even to this day no other MMOs match or get right. It's just a shame it is old as sin, with Vista tier servers and one of most cringe DLC models ever conceived. If a half decent IP (like the League one or DnD itself or something) copied as much shit from DDO as possible, i'm convinced it could not possibly fail.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I'd kill to see a modern take on it.
                Regardless of what anyone's opinions on it are, it's something different that works well enough to sustain itself, and that alone is something the genre needs more of.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              FF14 literally solved this with the duty finder

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Self-made problem
                >Solved

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              This is implying people don't get bored with the game, level up new characters or that there isn't a steady influx of new players. All disproved by my experience back in the day with FF11.
              The real reason is that a long-winded grind doesn't agree with today's ADHD design. It's always about the destination but never the year-long journey. It's not about socializing in global and making life-long friends anymore.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >The real reason is that a long-winded grind doesn't agree with today's ADHD design. It's always about the destination but never the year-long journey. It's not about socializing in global and making life-long friends anymore.
                This is well put. It is a problem both on the playerbase side of things but also on the developer side of things. I'm not sure exactly if we as players were conditioned to play differently or if it was the gaming industry evolving along with internet that caused it but we game differently than we did 10 or 20 years ago.

                I would like to go back approaching games differently but even when I want to it is very difficult to do so. I can't even imagine how difficult it is from the developer side of things trying to appeal to people with those slower paced games that don't feed our self-induced-ADHD -riddled brains immediately.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              daily/weekly quest in lower level areas. just because the games you play insist on a shitty antiquated game design doesn't mean it isn't a solved problem.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >daily/weekly quest
                have a nice day

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >you MUST go around 1 shotting irrelevant mobs to complete your chores
                nobody wants this dogshit

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >daily/weekly quest

                I fricking HATE dailies. Nothing makes me want to drop a game harder than player engagement bullshit like this, rather than devs making a game that just makes me want to log in and fricking play it or else fomo.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          That problem only EXISTS because games treat everything until end game as training wheels. Your MMORPG needs to be meaningful beyond endless raiding and endless PvP.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            This. Old Everquest and Final Fantasy 11 were great because they were difficult and dangerous from the start. You couldn't just run around one shotting things to level cap.

  18. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Reject MMOs, go back to MUDs.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Most muds suck ass and somehow suffer from the exact shit that makes MMOs shit, ie endless grinding instead of interesting quests and mechanics.

  19. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Problem is the RPG part from MUDs never really carried over successfully and fell entirely on players' initiative aka RP servers.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >WoW RP
      Man, moonguard was a fun time. No idea how it is now. I wish WoW back then had even half the modding support XIV has now, the RP community in WoW was huge.

      I think they still run that daily RP news segment in Moonguard, don't they? The Gnews. A nightly RP event that they've been doing for... Probably a decade now?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >he's using the Guild Wars 2 add-on for the World of Warcraft
      Great choice.

  20. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >MMO RPG
    >not massive
    >barely multiplayer
    >its online so they got one
    >dont roleplay
    >narrowly can be considered a game so two
    Boutta sue these homies for false advertisement

  21. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The reality is that MMOs need to get rid of cooldown skills and magic, and do away with "rotations". Also, linear growth needs to go. I dunno how such a game would look like. Maybe ultima online's redistributable skill points with shitty "souls-like" ARPG gameplay. But the important thing is that MMO gameplay and progression is garbage that just leads to people skipping the game. And people skipping the game is what has lead to a lot of the stagnation and such.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      sounds closer to gta online rp servers than mmorpgs, and the issue that gta online servers run into is that most people just aren't interesting, when given a sandbox to play around in where there's very little gamified sense of progression and you can be a random loser for a year or become a gang boss in a week depending on your actual skills then most people will just dig a little hole in the sand, get confused, then leave, mmorpgs need a large playerbase to justify their existence, but 99% of those players are uncreactive, boring and suck at games, mmorpgs have all these streamlined, linear, gamified progression systems so mouthbreathing, antisocial autists can enjoy and feel a sense of progression even though they themselves never improved in any sense, they didn't get better at games, they didn't get more charismatic, their character just got numerically better, but that's good enough for them to feel a sense of accomplishment

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        gta rp servers are more of an mmorpg experience than like 99% of the things calling themselves mmorpgs right now

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        excuse me i feel proud too, don't leave that out i love buying mounts

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        GTARP suffers from there being no game. I watched a little bit some time ago and the server didn't allow NPCs or buying equipment or missions or otherwise doing anything other than drive and talk to people.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          every server is very different because they all use mods that they made in house, some are more dynamic, some are less, the one I watch is a lot more action oriented than most, it has a lot of missions and stuff that turns into 10vs10 shootouts and stuff
          https://www.twitch.tv/fantasista_jp/clip/FancyPluckyGooseMcaT-qzHa-E9l6TR_RTfO
          https://www.twitch.tv/yufuna/clip/PowerfulAttractiveStorkPhilosoraptor-jUMA8HSKPFwvsmjd
          https://www.twitch.tv/fantasista_jp/clip/RoughHotEelShazBotstix-wDfzPOLWy8QABzHO

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      New World did all that and it was a stinking pile of shit.
      Souls games do not make for good RPGs.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I just looked it up and IT HAS ROTATIONS COOLDOWNS AND VERTICAL PROGRESSION YOU LIAR. Also, it's visual diarrhea.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      stats need to be toned down to the point of the way they are in mobas, normans are going to log out of any piece of shit outdated game that has bloated paragraphs of stats every time they hover over an item.
      There also shouldn't be skill bloat like in ffxiv, if I have to use 25+ keys then your game designers and skill programmers failed.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Continent of the Ninth had the perfect combat system years ago, but it was korean grind shit so nobody paid attention to it.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >The reality is that MMOs need to get rid of cooldown skills and magic, and do away with "rotations".
      Well i dont mind cooldowns but i agree. i hate everything about the "modern" MMO, like for example how in FFXIV every skill you have is not a tool to be used based on the situation but is instead simply a small pre-baked piece of the intended greater class ability rotation. So fricking ass. I guess they foegot that rotations only even existed as a byproduct of players attempting to optimize their damage in a tab target combat system, it was not an "intended" game mechanic

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Cooldowns are fine, what they need to get rid of is hyper combos and button spam. Having 6 different buttons that all do generic DPS numbers, but you have to press them in an order to do maximum DPS is fricking boring.

      Instead they need to start thinking about interaction between players and monsters, AOE tanking robs players of the agency of engaging with a fight, such as using a CC or defensive ability to avoid a monsters attack and organizing everyone to engage with a pull rather than a tank being the only one who engages with a pull and everyone else spams cleave spells and abilities, which devolves a game down to a DPS stat check with instant death groundfire floor is lava tedium.

  22. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    runescape isnt like this

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Runescape is worse.
      >entire game is solved, everyone can play it blindfolded
      >the only thing left to do is grind out levels which serves literally no purpose
      >grinding out levels almost always equates to clicking an item/node 5000000 times
      >combat is borderline a non-interactive stat check

      I won't even mention the visuals but it is really annoying how RS players always try to paint it as this haven of good design and creative gameplay when it's just as bad if not worse than most MMOs.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Best exp/hour zones are also the most click intensive, so either nobody socializes or they go out of their way to play on dead worlds for less competition
        >Every new and old skill winds up being like this
        >Grand exchange was added to the game for some fricking reason, deleting all of the social interaction around trading
        >Clans sequester to their clan chats or private discords, bot problem worse than ever so most of the "people" you encounter aren't even real
        >Gameplay involves just monotonously clicking nodes, never talking, quests are just pointless "oh you don't have 38 woodcutting, a wad of wet clay, four glass mugs and a wizard hat? Walk all the way home and get it then!"-tier stat check designs
        Always amazes me how much people will fellate OSRS for being a true to form classic MMO when it isn't at all. Ironically, the free to play experience is so much better than the membership simply because it's inefficient and everyone is just chilling at leveling spots and talking to eachother.

        boomers clinging to the old days are going to hold the genre back like an anchor until someone comes along and revolutionizes the genre by making mmos that the current generation wants and not what people wanted 20 years ago, it turns out doing boring slow bullshit isn't what people want now that internet is fast enough to do more than deliver 40 vials of breast milk to static npcs scattered around a barren map with 6 mobs placed inbetween

        MMO's ARE catering to what modern gamers think they want. That's why they're fricking trash.

  23. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    because i'm the only person who enjoys the early game and mid game more than the endgame of this shit

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      You're not the only one. They simply stopped making games for us because they're chasing that normie money.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >"early game"
      >Do quests, visit new locations, meet NPCs, fight monsters
      >People want to skip this
      >"Endgame"
      >Press button, wait for matchmaking, press rotation, repeat
      >People live doing this

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Early game
        >Shitty quest : kill 15 wolf
        >No skills available yet, no mechanic of any kind, entire gameplay is "press 1-2"
        >Story is shit since it's early game "the adventurer guild needs you to capture an apple thief!"
        >Endgame
        >Finally meaningful quest that usually requires you to do shit
        >All your skill available, bosses have mechanic now, require coordination and knowledge with your team
        >Story is now interesting, you're actually fighting the big bad of the world, there are finally stakes.

        Geez I wonder why

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Story
          Opinion discarded

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          You play ffxiv. I can tell because that's the only MMO i have ever played with those specific early game issues like "no skills". Most other MMOs give you tons of skills from the start that branch later. Also, there is no such thing as "endgame quests". If you have quests left, by definition, you are not at endgame.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >thinks there are stakes
          opinion disgarded.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Story is shit since it's early game "the adventurer guild needs you to capture an apple thief!"

          I guarantee you, if the game was fun and devs had a single creative bone in their body, that quest could be super fun. Even generic kill 10 boars quests could be super fun if devs put even a minimum amount of effort into it/into a game's combat.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Story is shit since it's early game "the adventurer guild needs you to capture an apple thief!"
          It was buckets of grape and it was kino.

  24. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Serious question guys: has anyone ever played pic related? I haven't, but it feels like it could address some problems with the MMO genre in the modern context. It seems based around exploration and discovery, and building bonds with the people you meet along the way. Any players comment?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It's a walking simulator. There's nothing to talk about.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        That's really it? That's disappointing.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          It's a sidescroller. What else did you think it could be. It's your usual artsy 'less is more' pretentious 'emote at people and pretend that it's somehow deep' slop tons of games tried to do before.

  25. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    boomers clinging to the old days are going to hold the genre back like an anchor until someone comes along and revolutionizes the genre by making mmos that the current generation wants and not what people wanted 20 years ago, it turns out doing boring slow bullshit isn't what people want now that internet is fast enough to do more than deliver 40 vials of breast milk to static npcs scattered around a barren map with 6 mobs placed inbetween

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      current generation doesn't want mmorpgs that's why modern "mmorpgs" are shit

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        roblox and fortnite are the two most popular games with young people entirely because the social aspect and large amount of players, young people would still like mmos if mmos weren't designed to be archaic boomer shit

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      FFxiv is nothing but zoomers, and presumably wnat theh want in an MMO. What the frick are you talking about?

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        ffxiv is entirely played by dysgenic millennials, a disastrous generation really

  26. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    People don't use their characters as virtual representation, so why wouldnt you just play candy crush instead of an mmo.
    And I'm not talking about representing yourself in a game, the average mmo character today is just an obstacle for mmo players

  27. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The fact that every new gachaslop that comes out is immediately popular despite obvious being the same as old chinese shovelware that would get laughed at and ignored in the past makes me know with 100% certainty that MMOs will never be a thing again.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      normies and mobileshitters ruined gaming

  28. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    because the game is centered around combat. if the combat is shit in an mmo, the rest of the game will be as well. fighting is how you level and understand your class/role, progress the story, collect loot and cosmetics, and spend time with other players. there has to exist a pinnacle event—this is where raids come in—in which to get the best gear. if it dropped guaranteed or quickly then no one would do it after a short while. these games are designed to be around for 10 years or so with years between major expansions. it’s a long treadmill, that’s why you repeat the raids. the shit part of it comes from item level or vertical progression in which all your hard work is immediately invalidated when the cap increases. the only game I played that handled this well was FFXI at 75 cap. off the top of my head there were at least 6-8 major avenues in which to get pinnacle gear and they all were equally valuable in different ways and most of them could be used on the same class through gear swapping

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      People say Black Desert has the BEST COMBUTT EVURR HURR and the rest of the game is still shit.
      Mind you, the combat is also shit, people just see flashy animations and particle effects and start clapping, but still.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      you can play mmos just fine without gear treadmilling
      only like 1% of the playerbase cuts the edge and are mazed in life

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        that’s true. I don’t think it should be a treadmill so to speak, but these events can be used to bring people together to socialize the same as leveling. I don’t think you can go back after having wow and xiv gays running so many tools and parsers for so long, making them elitist and paradoxically shit at the game also. These people also ruin the experience for those trying to socialize

  29. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Designing your game around the loud minority of hardcore gamers.
    So you either get a complete grind because no lifers rush to the end instantly and you want to draw things out.
    Or you get to the endgame super fast and there it's all just repeating the same super grindy content to get only marginally better gear for the same reasons.

  30. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The only MMO worth playing today is EVE online because it's a unique game like no other. I don't care about your excuses, if you never played it and didn't screw over your corp on a few billion ISK you're not a gamer.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Make a few billion isk
      >now what
      Just explained the reason why nobody plays EVE, except autistic sociopaths with a hard-on for spreadsheets.
      There's no real reason to do anything other than piss people off. And if I wanted to do that, I'd just play a fighting game and stomp on people.

      There's no crazy shit to find, no unique, super rare ships, no crazy mechanics and loopholes, it's just autists throwing ISK at each other and pretending anyone cares that they 'control' a section of space when it fricking means nothing.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Lol moronic zoomer
        You play EVE to grief people or grief the griefers

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >calls me a zoomer
          >too adhd to read my post and see where I said literally the same thing he's saying now
          I'll repeat it for your dopamine deprived brain.
          If I wanted to grief players, I'd play games that are much better for it.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Ahahahah zoom zoom zoomie thinks Fortnite and Pubg are better

  31. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    WoW classic won.

  32. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    mmos suck because they're designed for bullies
    vampire socialization will never be fun

  33. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    they stopped being RPGs after WoW released. Then they became PVPMMOs for teens and autists. good luck stick to single player or small groups of friends for real RPG experiences.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Except every mmo has moved away from pvp and towards pve focus, the genre is catering towards and ran by gays that don't even know what game they want any more because the pvp sucks, please sucks, and rpg mechanics suck

  34. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Because there is no RP in MMORPG

  35. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >why?
    Paypigs
    That is all.

    The games are designed for paypigs in mind, and if you don't make it to end-game because the rush there isn't any fun at all? You got filtered, you were never going to stick through with the game and spend $1000 on swimsuits and gacha like what the devs intend.

    >Just make it fun, then!
    If they could do that, do you think they would bother making an MMORPG? No, they would make a single player game and port it to every console. Tab targeting slop gets made because it'a an easy vehicle.

    Modern games don't even do that, they just make a gacha and put it straight on phones.

    You don't live in a sane time lead by rational men.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It seems pretty rational to me, companies make low effort gacha shit now instead of mmos because it's probably 1% of the work for 1000% the profit and you don't have to deal with the boomer mmo fan base

  36. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    where's the essex gacha tier list but for mmos

  37. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Here's a massive world
    >Oh boy can't wait to explore
    >Btw everything you can find in the world is useless once you hit max level.
    >Ok but maybe i need it to get to max level?
    >No leveling is moronicly easy
    >And endgame is?
    >Just instanced content nothing happens in the world at all

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      And then endgame in korean MMOs is just item RNG with randomised lines where out of 30 possible stats only 5 are decent when the chance of the item dropping in first place is already 0.1%.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >item RNG with randomised lines where out of 30 possible stats only 5 are decent
        This started in western games, though. Mainly diablo.
        Old korean games did have item rng, but mostly it was different weapons had different effects kind of thing.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          The classic korean mmo experience I know was ultra low drop rate with refinement RNG that will break your item. Tree of Savior was the last MMO I played that had this and it was not the only but one reason why it leaked players like mad. They replaced item breaking with the diablo system as mentioned where you have now tons of useless stats with only a handful being usable, all stats having absurd min/max ranges and items having an advanced or even superior version that is better than the previous tier but with the highest tier being something you can be happy to drop once in a lifetime just to be ruined by useless lines.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >tons of useless stats with only a handful being usable, all stats having absurd min/max ranges
            I used to hate western games because of this shit. Back then I liked the card rng system Ragnarok Online had more.
            But now every game even korean ones have this.
            Bummer.

  38. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >not a single person mentioning Guild Wars or it’s sequel in a thread about MMOs and how the old formula has to be changed
    Did ANet frick Wizard of Pooscure up so much that they are finally on suicide watch?
    Will Ganker forgive them if GW3 is just the original guild wars but with jumping?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I played guild wars 2 and it was barren, the landscape flat and the quests "kill 10 guys" tier. The game appearing to be rushing me through it for le ebin endgame didn't help. I liked the skills on weapons, tho.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Odd, especially the early game zones put a lot of emphasis on alternative solutions to the ‘quests’.
        I understand feeling rushed nowadays since reaching level 80 is the requirement to play 75% of the actual game by now.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      gw2 is the only mmo I currently play and it's solely so I can log into pvp, play 2 or 3 matches, and log off. As far as mmo design goes it probably gets more right about what mmos need to be like than every other one but nobody plays it

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      GW1 sucked and I have no idea why there's a brigade of morons constantly sucking it off.
      It was literally EQ lite. It was shit.

  39. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >genre is called MMO RPG
    >it doesn't MM your O into an RPG

  40. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Doomer thread made by depressed MMO addicts who have realized their chosen game they've sunk thousands of hours into is dying.

  41. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >and PvP forever
    FF14 has no PvP
    >inb4 it actually does
    Literally nobody plays those garbage game modes.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It has two PVP modes which are populated, Frontlines during Peak hours and Crystalline Conflict (split into Casual and Ranked) for most of the day.
      >t. CC enjoyer

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >FF14 has no PvP
      Is that the one where people prostitute themselves? I would consider that a form of PvP

  42. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Secret World Legends
    >Some of the worst combat I've ever seen in an MMO and that's saying something
    >But the setting is super cool, there's cool ass cutscenes for every quest, and quests can actual involve genuine investigations, puzzle solving, teamwork, stealth, etc.

    Still never saw another MMO that had quests are fun as TSW. There was one that required you to know how to read sheet music and research a real world musical piece outside the game.

    I know people would just look up solutions for everything but frick I want this kind of stuff so bad.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The death of classic secret world will haunt me till the end of my days. I can't believe anyone looked at the new combat system and was like "yup this is way better, ship it". The fact that the story will now never be finished is a crime.

      Combat in the old game was also pretty uninspired, but it was leagues better. At least you could make an actual build instead of just assigning the 3 passives you're allowed to have in the new game. So fricking dumb.

  43. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Are there any current MMORPGs with the design sensibilities of CRPGs?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      No.

  44. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    your complaints are literally all about casualshit MMOs

  45. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >designed to rush you to endgame
    >all you do is rinse and repeat raids
    blame WoW

  46. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous
    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Factual.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Is the red pin where we take a break to dialate?

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Nice "dungeon".

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Anon that's a dungeon not the overworld you disingenuous frick.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Are you implying dungeons nowadays shouldn't be expected to be labyrinthian or branching in design either?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            God I miss dungeons being massive locales you were supposed to spend multiple visits exploring in a group instead of short railroads to some loot.

  47. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I firmly believe that "QoL" features and emphasis on end game are the primary things killing MMORPGs.
    >take away the need for players to interact
    >prioritise hyper autistic end game grind
    The best moments I've ever had in MMOs is some random player interactions during early and mid game like 15 years ago.
    >have a mini boss quest and just randomly gather a group of people who just hang out nearby
    >chaotic overworld PvP, before devs added gay PvP flags
    >raid other faction's cities just for fun
    This is amalgamation of several MMOs I played in the late 00s, but now all suffer from the same issues
    >gay dungeon/party finder or even just straight up bots as party members
    >PvP flags or only dedicated PvP zones
    >early and mid game zones are ghost towns because everybody just rushes through them as it's a chore to get to the real game
    >end game is dominated by hyper autismal spergs who think you should be online 24/7
    I swear the only times MMOs are good nowadays is if it's a new MMO that just dropped and devs didn't yet ruin it with fun sucking features. New World early end mid game was really enjoyable, until you got to the most moronic end-game grind I've ever seen.
    It's as if players only need a game world and human interaction to have fun.
    And maybe forever-games are just not a good idea in general.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >take away the need for players to interact
      youll need significant amount of players in every activity and every step in that activity if you want people to interact to do something
      >try to play TBCC
      >leveled to 70 somewhere in BT patch
      >basically stuck cause absolutely nobody doing 5ppl anymore

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >emphasis on end game
      Emphasis on endgame is inevitable. That's literally just demographics, mmo starts with a lot a new people, but at some point their number decline and you're left with way more endgame player than new ones.

      Basically, it's a country where people don't frick, and old people don't die. So you might as well build retirement homes instead of school and playground.

  48. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Stealth thread to seethe at FFXIV

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >fragile ffxivsister enters the thread after a brief scan to make it about xer game

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I'm just here to live rent free in your head

  49. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Remove teleporting in MMOs. All forms of it. All of it.
    Ride carriages, boats, airships, trains, whatever the frick, or get a horse (that doesn't have infinite stamina).
    Add dynamic WORTHWHILE events and things that happen all over the map. Add a fluctuating economy. Make sure the world is big.

    There. I just made a great MMO even if every other single system detail is shit, it would still be fun.
    Teleporting is cancer.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Teleporting and flying. Flying is fricking lame shit and reduces the size of the world. The boats and airships have to be actual real time travel too none of the ff14 shit of its just a npc that teleports you

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        funnily enough ffxiv had boat travel before the ARR relaunch
        hell, it had a lot more travel in general
        trannies b***hed and moaned about it and so it became the loading screen teleport fest you know today

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I really love the "game that respects your time" homosexuals ruining everything.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Somewhat true.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Ride carriages, boats, airships, trains
      >alt tab and do other shit or watch netflix on second monitor
      Nobody will give a shit to chat with you while traveling no matter how much you push for it.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Partially true. The point isn't to create a socializing space though, even though that could be done.
        It's to get people to go to different places and utilize the world. And make it an endeavour, an actual quest instead of just 'teleport to a, kill thing, teleport back to b' that is every MMO.

        If it took time to get somewhere, I might actually stay there. Do some side-quests there, explore a bit, try and find other ways of leveling instead of just going back to the main quest or whatever. But no. We teleport everywhere. Nothing matters, I just follow the map marker. The world might as well not be there.

        That's the point. As for the socialization aspect? Add shit to do in the boats and trains. Can play gambling games with other players, do lifeskills, interact with NPCs that have a chance to spawn in your particular boat/airship, spar, shop for stuff, etc etc. There's lots of ways to make travel fun and not just an alt-tab.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          The audience suffers brain rot is the issue.
          Like for example a lot of people in runescape don't know you can use your crops on the tool leprechaun to turn them into bank notes, making trips to the bank not as necessary and making inventory management way better. Do you know why people have to be told this? Because they don't talk to the NPCs, they spacebar through quest dialogue because it doesn't keep their attention and they want their goodies.
          The modern MMO audience is almost entirely comprised of sigma grindset freaks who won't give the world or its people the time of day. They want to speedrun a marathon instead of just taking a walk once in a while.
          >gambling games with other players
          This would get axed because of the anti-gambling regulations in place nowadays in Europe.
          The other issue I would foresee is the same audience (borderline) datamining the game and getting its wiki page up in a day so you're stuck with an efficient quest guide with things to skip, unless all the quests offered something substantial in which case the guide is just "do them all, here are the markers."
          Even if you have an interesting world, people will inevitably interact with it through a wiki page sooner than just exploring themselves most of the time. That is the era we're dealing with.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I still don't understand how all the anti gambling shit doesn't stop the gachas, literal slot machines for actual money, from existing, but blocks fricking in-game currency shit.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              They were too busy going after the black market conversions (from real money to game money and back) to stop the core problem.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I dont understand how ff11 has a wiki and is very much a wiki game but still to this day in the modern age has shit people still don't fricking understand about it 100%. Like the myths and shit about crafting directions mattering lasted forever until devs outright said "no thats not real". Like datamining the game didn't make any of the weird obtuse mechanics actually make sense or anything. How did they manage this that no other mmo can manage to replicate.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Ching chong spaghetti code hard to understand.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                if that were the case then ff14 would never get datamined either

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Because back in 2003 we barely had the concept of a wiki and its information was not always reliable, but the game was still intentionally designed around the sharing of information being necessary. The designers weren't afraid to make things obscure and impossible to solve individually, so there was always this air of mystery that made you feel like any insane theory was plausible and you might be the first person to discover something. The mystique was further enhanced by FFXI having a multilingual community.

              Data mining wasn't very prevalent back then, either, and it sounds like you're confusing the extraction of things like models and textures with actual code decompilation. No one was actually pulling apart the code and figuring out how exact mechanics worked, especially because many of those calculations and conditions were being done on the server. To this day, that is why private servers don't get all the details right.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I dont understand how ff11 has a wiki and is very much a wiki game but still to this day in the modern age has shit people still don't fricking understand about it 100%. Like the myths and shit about crafting directions mattering lasted forever until devs outright said "no thats not real". Like datamining the game didn't make any of the weird obtuse mechanics actually make sense or anything. How did they manage this that no other mmo can manage to replicate.

                Reminds me of Guild Wars 1 having a sword that got found in a couple days only after one of the devs said something about it existing after 8 years

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Ashes of Creation is 20 years away from release and already has probably over 300 wiki pages fully detailing its systems, classes, maps, etc. Gonna be real fricking epic when that trash releases and is already 100% discovered and minmaxed

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              The majority of that wiki is outdated info and speculations.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Ashes looks like the most generic survival/crafting slopfest ever anyway
              infinite budget and time and it still looks/plays like some shitty unity game made by some slav in his mother's basement

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Survival/crafting
                So you know nothing about the game I see

  50. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I think MMOs need to move away from compulsory grinds

  51. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    MMOs slowly died when Teamspeak and Skype was on the rise
    Nowadays Discord took their places and made the MMO concept obsolete

  52. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Well second life is still going with all the weird middle class single white moms if you want an rpg that badly.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      SL stopped being relevant the instant they nerfed casinos

  53. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    MMOs dying has nothing to do with the players. It's 100% the games. They still haven't moved past trashy 20 year old outdated WoW combat that literally nobody enjoys anymore. People prefer action rpg gameplay. Tbh it's not hard at all to make a game like that, developers are just moronic and ruin any game that has potential with shitty p2w elements or moronic systems. Every time there's a new mmo teased people get hype as hell hoping that it'll finally be the one golden mmo that won't be shit, only to be let down every single time. There's still hope for the genre, but developers need to understand what players actually want and act upon it and not cave into the pressure to ruin their game for a quick buck and they would be rewarded with massive playercounts and more money than if they took the scum route. Players aren't gonna flock to something that's shit most people with a brain are smarter than that, and otherwise most people are sheep bangwagoners anyway that will hop on board if others are playing it.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >People prefer action rpg gameplay
      No. Every action MMO is basically dead for a reason.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Nah, people still praise Tera combat, PSO2 would be alive if SEGA didn't kill it with shitty decisions, and Vindictus would've been more popular if not for Nexon. People like that type of gameplay in MMOs that's actually interactive, and the fault with those games was never in the combat systems.

        >People prefer action rpg gameplay.
        Ah yes, this is clearly why FFXVI was so popular and nobody cared about BG3

        talking about mmos here buddy, don't bring singleplayer games into the mix

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >No. Every action MMO is basically dead for a reason.
          tera

          Tera is fricking dead, PSO2 and Vindictus are not MMORPGs. I repeat, nobody likes action gameplay in MMOs, they always die or almost always have shit world building and incoherent visual designs.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >nobody likes action gameplay in MMOs
            >they always die or almost always have shit world building and incoherent visual designs
            what combat has to do with worldbuilding or visual design?

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              It's just a trend I've observed is all. Every action MMO I've played always fails at everything except the combat. So they just end up looking like a disjointed mess with no coherent vision.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I still haven't seen an action mmo with good combat
                it's always just flashy animations and dodge spam

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                That's usually the case yeah.
                Though personally I really liked Blade and Soul's combat, was a good mix of tab target abilities and action, shame about the rest of the game.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            If shit like Runescape is an MMO, Monster Hunter is 100% an MMO.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              The most a main franchise MH has ever been an MMO was probably Dos and even that's a stretch. You could have a lobby of 10 people but could only go on a quest with 4. Sad they never went back to that bustling town feeling in the future titles.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >The most a main franchise MH has ever been an MMO was probably Dos
                Do you not remember Frontier?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >main franchise
                Also let me raise you the chink MHO

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Do you not remember Frontier?
                It's why I said main franchise. Haven't played it but I'm sure Frontier was the most MMO like of them. Vaguely remember Raviente being fought with more than the standard 4 players at a given time when I used to watch all the monster fights on youtube ages ago.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              are you moronic?

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >No. Every action MMO is basically dead for a reason.
        tera

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Tera died though, the servers got put down
          Though it's probably justified since it's an old game, the combat was damn good, too bad the new elyon game the compagny released was so damn fricking bad

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            [...]
            Tera is fricking dead, PSO2 and Vindictus are not MMORPGs. I repeat, nobody likes action gameplay in MMOs, they always die or almost always have shit world building and incoherent visual designs.

            I thought TERA died because the korean dev went bankrupt due to some shenanigans I've forgotten, not because there wasn't people who still wanted to play it, though?

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous
    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >but developers need to understand what players actually want
      what player?
      pvpBlack folk, casualgays, poopsocking sweatlords, streamer trash?
      you cant please everyone

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >People prefer action rpg gameplay.
      Ah yes, this is clearly why FFXVI was so popular and nobody cared about BG3

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It's 50% games 50% people.
      The MMO genre and its problems are stale. The people are also stale.
      >but developers need to understand what players actually want and act upon it
      Some of them do, but not the suits towering over them.
      I like exploring worlds personally doesn't really matter if it's hotbar, point and click or whatever weird shit atlantica online was on when they decided 3x3 formation turn-based.
      >players aren't going to flock to something that's shit
      haha oh you

  54. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Overall feels like MMOs as a genre died after 2016, rightfully so, not much different than zombie games, battle royales, or other temporary mainstream stuff

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      moronic wowBlack person, mmos died after wow shat up the place and brought in undesirables that continue to shit up the genre

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I'm not that anon or a wow player but what's with the mmo boomer archetype that is convinced that the reason mmos died is because the most popular mmo of all time that everyone in the civilized world has heard about released, if anything mmos would be RTS genre dead tier right now without wows release

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I'd rather mmos be dead then forever chasing a lightning in a bottle that only happened because it dumbed down the genre to cater to the majority of the population being morons that got filtered by simple mechanics.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Because a piece of media can only become "one of the most popular of all time" by catering to the lowest common denominator, which WoW did. It killed MMOs by putting dollar signs in studios' eyes, so they all immediately started chasing WoW's success by emulating it instead of focusing on making good games and innovating the genre and holy shit, look at that, they're all fricking dead.

          Nah, people still praise Tera combat, PSO2 would be alive if SEGA didn't kill it with shitty decisions, and Vindictus would've been more popular if not for Nexon. People like that type of gameplay in MMOs that's actually interactive, and the fault with those games was never in the combat systems.
          [...]
          talking about mmos here buddy, don't bring singleplayer games into the mix

          >talking about mmos here buddy, don't bring singleplayer games into the mix
          Stupid goalpost moving moron, you're talking about gameplay, it doesn't matter if the context is an MMO or single player game; if people like action RPG combat, they'll play it in an MMO if it delivers the same gameplay experience they'd get in a single player game.

  55. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    They are a dead end of game design and bastardization of DnD beginning with EQ. Graphically advanced virtual tabletops like Talespire to run actual DnD modules in is what people *should* be playing. You can even make them "massively multiplayer" if you have enough coordinated group and play something like west marches.

  56. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I have exactly no game design experience. I have assembled a team of twenty five individuals of varying skill to build an actual next gen (gameplay) mmo.

    I'm going to fix this my brothers. I promise. Pic moderately related to nothing.

  57. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I'm having fun in FFXI

  58. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    We need a new Elin race to save MMOs.

  59. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    to rush you to endgame
    The only game which is designed this way and is still relevant is WoW.

  60. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Just play guild wars 2. It's the only mmo that respects your time

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      GW2 is one of the most braindead games I've ever played, shame on you for recommending such garbage.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Did you only play it at launch or did you actually play the expansions?

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I played it for like 30 hours recently and no I didn't give these c**ts any money.
          >BUT IT GETS GOOD 200 HOURS IN
          Frick off.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Man no one thinks the base game is good
            The expansions is where the fun is at

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              The expansions are just more of the same shit, the only difference is that it costs money to unlock.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        show us your tournament wins?

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        This anon knows the truth. GW2Black folk are some of the most brainwashed morons. It's the same shit as every other awful MMO, even though they're all convinced it's so different.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          maybe it's become a bit samey over the last 12 years due to the number of new MMOs and updates for older MMOs copying the things that used to be unique about it. of course it is still just an MMO but that is a tautology if you're not really into MMOs to begin with.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >GW2Black folk are some of the most brainwashed morons
          ever met ESO players?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            ESO actually has some good quests and stories in it unlike GW2 where you go from event to event mindlessly completing a checklist.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              And unfortunately it's all wasted because it's piss easy due to everything being synced. It even ruins the rewards, since again, everything is level synced. There's no point to anything. You never feel stronger and you are never challenged.

  61. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    MMOs "respecting your time" is codeword for you there is like 1 hour of content in the game max daily.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I'd even go as far as to say that to be a proper MMORPG it has to not respect your time. MMORPG mechanics can't exist in a game that respects your time.

  62. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    MMOs are supposed to feel like living worlds which means developers need to keep players playing (that's also how they make money) but, in all video games, it takes months to develop content which players will beat in just a few hours. This means developers need to make the games as grindy as possible. End-game is a godsend because developers no longer need to create new abilities or new monsters or new locations, they can just say, "Go do this one dungeon with this one monsters 5000 times for slightly better equipment," and players desperate for content do it.

    PvP is also nice because it's essentially players making their own content. The story and locations might tide you over for 20-100 hours, but PvP can tide you over for 100-5000 hours.

    At some point, people uninterested in these things began trickling out, and so players interested in these things became the main demographic, which meant new MMOs were designed specifically for them instead of trying to bring the old players back. It was a misinterpretation by developers and it's why the genre is no longer recognizable.

  63. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Because the point is not beating the raids, it's showing everyone in the main city that I did.

  64. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    MMO is terrible platform for RPG, its elements usually ends up being straight up ignored because eberybody does rush to the endgame anyway and nobody gives two fricks about anything else.

    Want RPG, go play real RPG.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It's a bad medium for rpgs because making impactful choices in a multiplayer game means fricking with other players experience
      I think the best they could do is a psuedo-democratic system. Like if during week 1 enough players side with the necromancer he becomes a boss for week 2. Or having factions more meaningful and fluid rather than befriending everyone

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It's a bad medium for rpgs because making impactful choices in a multiplayer game means fricking with other players experience
      I think the best they could do is a psuedo-democratic system. Like if during week 1 enough players side with the necromancer he becomes a boss for week 2. Or having factions more meaningful and fluid rather than befriending everyone

      Terrible posts.

  65. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >MMO RPG
    >Focus is on Massively multiplayer roleplaying games.
    >99% of them are solo-focused with as few RPG elements as possible.
    >Wtf, why are they failing!????

  66. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    gacha is the new mmorpg

  67. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >actual flaw in mmos
    >when WoW does it its good actually
    every fricking time jesus christ

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >wow
      >doing anything good
      even vanilla was pretty shit game

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        It was turbo shit and thats why millions of flies gathered around it. These homosexuals that think mmos started with WoW need to die genuinely.

  68. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    MMOs are just social media for people too autistic to use regular social media.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I'm also too autistic for MMOs though.

  69. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Ashes of Creation will save us, or maybe Star Citizen

  70. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The kind of person that wants to play an RPG will play a singleplayer game and not waste their time with dogshit gameplay in MMOs.
    The RPG there is only thanks to your characters having stats, that's it.

  71. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >youre never going to play the archeage alpha again
    Why live?

  72. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    MMORPGs were at their peak before the age of social networks, when they were both games and places people used to hang out online. Then came MySpace, then Facebook, then Twitter and Discord, and so MMORPGs lost their social function. What remained was autistic competitive grind that relies on gambling mechanics and time sinks, that's the only reason people play these games anymore.

  73. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >play MMORPG
    >find group to complete a dungeon
    >everyone just rushes through from objective to objective
    >no time to soak in the beautiful scenery of the locale, immerse yourself in the adventure, or even read the quest text, because then I'd be holding the group down
    >come back to the dungeon and solo it after leveling up a bit
    >it's actually fun and immersive this time
    See this kind of shit is exactly why I play MMOs solo 99% of the time.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      if you find soloing mindless mobs enjoyable you have brain damage

  74. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    There's nothing more autistic than RPing in an MMORPG. Their worlds are always insanely static, linear and don't account for anything. Player characters are also always very simplistic and don't really do anything other than combat. There are a few exceptions, like EVE Online, or Star Wars Galaxies before it went to shit, but those games are very different from the mainstream MMOs like WoW or FFXIV.

  75. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    the problem with mmos is always the audience, they get into the world which acts as a great equaliser and then the second people climb the hierarchy better than them they demand everything be sped up and equalised, so nothing matters anymore and there is nothing to do and then they quit playing after the devs raped the game to appeal to them.
    +the minmax everyone wants to be a career youtuber and streamer mindset.
    >hold devs hostage that you will quit unless they bend to your dad gamer time constraints instead of just moving on with grace
    >devs cave
    >quit cause there is nothing to do and no achievment matters or is special
    😮

  76. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    MMORPGs were only popular back in the early 2000s because the concept of an online living breathing world full of other real humans that you could communicate with was novel as frick
    once social media became a widespread thing, that entire appeal of mmos was lost overnight and all we were left with was the gameplay, which just kept getting more and more streamlined over the years to the point where it's not an RPG anymore

    it's not an MMO and it's not an RPG, it's just crap

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      modern MMO gameplay is 100x better and 100x more complex than old slop featuring auto attacks or out of combat rez spam

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        no it isnt

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Yes it is
          Name anything from an old game that can match a modern WoW or XIV raid

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Nope, not telling. Stay away from my game.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >immediate cope
              >shilling a game around gear swap macros
              lmfao

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I'm not shilling anything, I'm explicitly telling you to stay the frick away because you are too moronic to play.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Theres nothing skillful about boomerslop, thats why geriatrics love it instead of faster modern games

  77. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >sitting through a vn and pressing 1 button "combos" fast is skill
    lmao

  78. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Blame the e-gay streamers who treat it like a job of the current year and the poopsock no life Black folk of yesteryear. I can't think of a problem that wouldn't be fixed if devs didn't actively tell them to frick off or not design garbage around them

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I can only imagine size of the shitstorm if some gamedev tell streamers to frick off.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Ripping off the bandage is the worst part, might as well get it over with. All of them are addicted gays that suffer from beaten wife syndrome anyway, always have been, their threats are meaningless.

  79. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Both ffxiv and osrs have a couple hundred hours before hitting end game and that’s if you sweat runescape, which is more like thousands

    It’s why both these games are more popular than wow right now

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Neither of those games are more popular than WoW, they aren't even close to WoW. And FFXIV's couple hundred of hours mainly consists of watching shitty cutscenes with barely any voice acting until SB and garbage /emote animations.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Both are more popular than wow

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          No they're not, you'd have to be delusional to think otherwise.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Both are much more popular than wow

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              homie are you on drugs
              FF maybe, but no fricking way OSRS is more popular than wow

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                One T4 shooting star has more players, not even counting bots, than dalaran in the highest pop wotlk realm

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >wotlk realm
                why are you counting private servers?

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              FFXIV's highest sub count is still less than WoW's lowest

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Is what you would like to believe

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Yes, I choose to believe facts.

                The latest phase of season of discovery legit had like 4 people in stormwind when it launched. Zero chance wow has more than a million subs. Don’t know ffxiv but they have got to have atleast a million

                How many versions of WoW is available one sub?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >How many versions of WoW is available one sub?
                Brown detected

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Gonna answer the question?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                REDEEM QUESTION SAR

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Gonna answer the question?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                *smacks lips* how many version is be available

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Getting this hung up on a grammatical error
                I accept your concession moron

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >being brown

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                The latest phase of season of discovery legit had like 4 people in stormwind when it launched. Zero chance wow has more than a million subs. Don’t know ffxiv but they have got to have atleast a million

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >sod
                >classic
                majority is STILL playing the latest expansion

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                By every metric classic is more popular than retail like it’s not even an argument

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >By every metric

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Vanilla classic back when it was the only version.

                Both cataclym and SOD are simply not retaining players because both of them have the same issues as retail, namely repetitive timer/waiting boredom, but without new raid to do.

                Just log in

                The gap is huge it’s literally like RS3 to OSRS

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Just log in
                How can i count total amount of players on all servers by 'logging in'?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Vanilla classic back when it was the only version.

                Both cataclym and SOD are simply not retaining players because both of them have the same issues as retail, namely repetitive timer/waiting boredom, but without new raid to do.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Both cataclym and SOD are simply not retaining players because both of them have the same issues as retail
                It really is a shame that we don't have a new version of this graph leaked for post cata launch. I really wanted confirmation if Cata really was as horrific for subscribers numbers the second time as it was the first time.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Subscribers (Rolling average)
                Where are the numbers?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                You'll have to go grill Metzen for that. I was only posting this to show the trend for both TBC/WotLK classic and subs. We'll never get absolute numbers from blizzard again cause it'll be too shameful admit what a pile of shit the current game is.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >We'll never get absolute numbers from blizzard again cause it'll be too shameful admit what a pile of shit the current game is.
                Sad

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >osrs have a couple hundred hours before hitting end game and that’s if you sweat runescape, which is more like thousands
      OSRS is only popular because there is a good, working, mobile version of the game, and it actively encourages afking because skill training and rewards are being actively held hostage but fake veteran gays who never played before 2010. It also doesn't help that people eat up the garbage youtube series that streamer Black folk shit out because they have insanely good video editors on their team. I don't see that level of quality in literally any other MMO on youtube. The end game is fricking atrocious in OSRS. Don't forget OSRS popularized that awful ironman mode, which the company said they wouldn't cater around, and yet almost every new update is specifically designed for them. So there's even more appeal for solo players to play
      t. 2002 player with infernal and ornament kits from all raids

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        What abject schizophrenia

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Do you even know what schizophrenia is or do you just repeat forced memes/insults all day long?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Read your own post

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Just say you don't play osrs but still wanted to argue pointlessly, it's fine

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                You don’t play osrs, you suffer from schizophrenia

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I accept your concession

  80. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >people get to do pvp
    Try to do that in some korean f2p without paying. Anyway mmo is a relic of the past. Want some adventuring? Play good single player rpg. Want some pvp? Play a game made for that. Want to be a fricking degenerate? Install discord.

    MMOs are too slow nowadays and every aspect of the genre is made better in other games.

  81. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    MMOs have been taken over by morons who want to monetize the frick out of them.

    Sadly because of this MMOs are doomed because Gacha fills that type of players autism better and real MMOgays have abandoned the genre outright.

    Also no one knows what the frick an MMO is anymore, they think retail WOW is an MMO when you're running the same 5-10 man dungeons and raids on repeat and the world is so fricking dead that if more than 40 people engage in combat in a single area the world server litterally crashes

  82. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    wow is the most dead it's ever been and it's the biggest MMO. In the twitch streamer FOTM pump and dump game meta MMOs have no place there. Also modern monetisation practices run counter to the immersions of an MMO world. MMO players also can't resist forking over extra cash to skip the gameplay and then in turn kill the game world.
    The modern audience will always min max, speed run, exploit and then gatekeep a game to death within the first month.

  83. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >literally made xiv player piss and shit themselves in anger and confusion

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      no it made the invading wowfugee population shit and piss themselves, thats why it got patched after shadowbringers lmao

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      To this day I remember an FC mate lala that died to this guy's aoe swipe the same moment he performed his leap back and it looked like he just baseball batted him out of mid air. I laughed to tears seeing it.

  84. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >no story, quests and other singleplayer features
    >no Groupfinder forcing you into group content
    >exclusive solo player content
    >no level-gated content
    >horizontal progression, zero obsolete content
    >no race-to-endgame, you reached it after the tutorial
    >can take breaks without ever falling behind, no fomo
    >completely f2p, cash shop only sells skins
    >filters PvE carebears
    >runs on everything, low system requirements

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >totally ruined by poopsockers and RMT

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >themepark player cope

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        so every MMO? If there is some kind of competition pathetic whales will always come in any pay their way to the top.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      You forgot
      >looks like mobile slop from decade ago
      >still has separate zones instead of seamless world despite point above
      >plays like shittiest lol clone imaginable
      >pve is even more braindead than lol forest camps somehow
      >gvg is gay as frick 20vs20 shit that is also instanced
      >no lore, no worldbuilding, no coherent setting, no sense of adventure or exploration, just a glorified pvp battleground

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >it's not like WoW so it's bad

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >still has separate zones instead of seamless world
        no MMO anyone plays today has a fully seamless world, even black desert doesn't have a fully seamless world.

  85. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    this single thing single handedly killed an entire genre
    and it's called
    DUNGEON FINDER

  86. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >wow/ffxiv fricking suck. loved ffxiv at one point but it keeps getting casualized and the story sucks
    >gw1 is amazing, gw2 is awful
    >all korean games are p2w garbage or dead now. lost ark would be perfect if not for the p2w/rng
    >new world, swtor, etc are garbage
    >tera, secret world dead
    I just want to go back.

  87. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Because grinding is inherent to the genre and grinding gear at not max level is fricking pointless
    Call it a flaw or whatever but it is what it is

  88. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The problem is that ffxiv completely solved the genre, so there's no reason to play anything else

  89. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Thoughts about Ashes of Creation?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Only MMORPG I have even a modicum of hope in atm

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      At least they're almost out of alpha, and then there's only 2 beta tests before launch, so hopefully getting a realistic schedule sometime soon. They seem to be less focused on instanced stuff and more focused on world bosses and feeding resources into nodes for area building, which is cool. They're probably trying to balance classes and areas at the moment. I don't like how they set up a shop already for alpha test skins and stuff but as long as they don't fall into MTX shit or cater to giga sperg poopsock pvp autists and raidgays it should be decent at least

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Out of alpha? Bro, the 2nd alpha test is only starting this fiscal quarter

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          That is literally the last alpha test version before the beta tests. Check the schedule on their website mate

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Yeah, I know it's the last one, I misread your post and thought you said "At least they're out of alpha"

  90. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Mmorpg was always with this fault, the only time this was less evident was early 2000, with no widespread wikis, no datamine, no meta. In just for few months minmaxxers started to discover shit, but internet was slower. Now everyone is a minmaxxer, back in the day staying in a guild with epic equipped players was like free masonry to the eye of the casuals, so at least min maxxing had a roleplay factor in the server

  91. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    To make people play a long time so they keep paying for the subscription. yes it's as bad as it sounds. But gating stuff behind time is also the only way to not have everyone has the best gear. Thats why rank 14 in wow was what it was. Unless you lock it behind money. Or skill but grinding arena fricking sucked (although TBC gameplay didnt help)

  92. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    How to fix MMOs
    No instancing
    Heavily reduce vertical progression, increase scope of horizontal progression
    Character improvement is learning new abilities, not getting bigger numbers
    Quests have an actual impact on the world. No Rifts. No Fates. When a character says "can you murder 10 goblins for me" it's because they want the goblins gone and when enough people complete the quest the goblins are gone and replaced with something else that fills the niche. If not enough people murder the goblins then that town gets taken over by the goblins. And this applies to all factions, not just the generic evil ones. Sometimes you gotta kill the noble Good humans who are sending scouts in the nearby swamp because you want to learn vampire skills and the trainer that spawned in rolled really good abilities.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >No instancing
      Psychopath take. You're asking people to grief raids on pvp servers.
      I know it because I used to grief people farming the gorillas in STV lmao.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        The best part of raiding in EQ was fighting other guilds for the right to take on the boss. Get rid of cross-server playing and griefers will frick themselves over due to having a poor server rep.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >muh rep
          Nobody cares.
          You can ninja loot the most godly item and only a few people will be mad at you until you buy a name change, then you can do it again.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I know, the solution would be not to sell name changes (which'll never happen I guess) or to have a sort of family name that can't be changed.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          No one but no lifers enjoyed this, this will not work nor be fun in 2024. the planes of power being released in the current mmo state would be overrun by streamers and minmaxers who would snowball and kill the server pop within a month
          >rep
          lol. just... lol

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >No one but no lifers enjoyed this
            Yes. Devs are constantly trying to shit out new content to satiate their rabid players, so just make the frickers fight for the right to attempt the content. As long as the game isn't a shitty theme park where there's nothing to do but raid, I think it could work.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Yeah you don't design for them anymore unless you want your game to die, this only works for games like Rust and DayZ because they have wipes, and Rust still has a myraid of problems outside of that

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Well then, who do you design for this days?
                Zoomers with attention span of gnat, who blasts through content in a week and then b***h about no content?
                Gamer dads who play 3hrs a week and b***h about how there's too much bloat and the game doesn't respect their time?
                ERP gays?
                Solo players who'd be better off playing a traditional single-player game or a lobby based game like GW1, PSO2 or DnDO?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Basically the last two, zoomers still resub for biggers update and gamer dads will play, they just stagnate until you throw them a bone and get them out of the level gear bracket by some inevitable powercreep content update. You're seeing this as some autistic black and white dilema, you can design content for higher level, more skilled players, you just don't design garbage that caters to 0.1% of the playerbase who shits their diapers because they play 20+ hours a day, that's all m8

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Basically the last two
                So why even bother making the game an MMORPG at that point? Just make it a lobby game with a housing zone.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                basic they want to see some level of progression and gameplay and also keep up the illusion of potentially interacting with hundreds of other players even if it's few and far between

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                You can still have the progression and the illusion, just increase the lobby size. Most people already play MMORPGs as if they're lobby games anyway, might as well stop pussy footing around it and pull the trigger.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >would be overrun by streamers and minmaxers who would snowball and kill the server pop within a month
            That literally happened in throne & liberty KR kek

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        The faction system handles that. Steal loot from other players and you get negative faction reputation with the factions they are in good standing with. It's not a timer system either, it's a permanent loss until you quest to regain faction rep.

        Good luck griefing when you lose access to every bank, merchant, trainer, and crafting station because you're a jackass. Oh also you drop your equipment so now you're exiled in every settlement and have frick all if you die.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          If you're going to handhold this hard just play pve servers. The whole point of pvp is to frick other people.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      MMORPG can't worl, because if you fix them you basically create a second life, and I prefer to live the original one. The only advantage of an mmo second life is that you don't die

  93. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Playing dragon gae mad eme realize MMOs are kind auspposed to be baldurs gate except you control only one character. I think they dont make more advanced content because they want to make a shitload of content so people keep playing which means it can't be as dense

  94. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I want to be fricked in my ass by a cute trans girl with small dick while my girlfriend actually sits on my face with her fat ass (I'm suffocating).

  95. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Removal of leveling or reduction in its importance, entirely horizontal progression, and a world that constantly shifts in shape and eventually decays into ruin before being completely reset is probably the way you'd make a foundation for a modern MMO now. This covers your dad gamers, your zoomies, and your wikigays but will alienate anyone who wants permanent progression.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >completely reset
      This gay ass mentality needs to frick off. Why are morons so obsessed with resets and fresh starts?

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Whatever MMO you're playing will eventually shut down and all your progress will be lost, the only remaining thing being the memories you've made. You'll be resetting and starting fresh in another title if you're not dropping gaming altogether.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        New players will not play on your old server because they don't want to be behind. MMORPG servers are without exception the most active when they are new. WoW is experiencing record player numbers again because of countless new servers. Why not make progression wipes part of the game?

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          You'd have to make it without leveling and other mmo trappings. People don't wanna invest time to get rug pulled.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            How about making levelling fun? Most WoW players would agree that early progression is some of the most fun you can have in this game.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Find me a single good player who thinks auto attacking through deadmines or ragefire is fun

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                It's good for what it is. A tutorial dungeon. Better to teach players the importance of watching your groups HP/Mana, looking out for packs and managing threat when all you have to do is spam frost bolt.
                If someone doesn't understand group play, that's where they'll turn from a shit to "good" player (hopefully).

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Nobody is behind in WoW and retail still utterly mogs all versions of classic, your post is moronic

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >but will alienate anyone who wants permanent progression.
      This is a lot smaller audience than people think. Notice how huge season based arpgs go. They are grind heavy games that still dumpster progression and people still play them.

  96. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    MMOs need to stop pushing people to endgame just so they can grind several hundred hours for 10% incremental increases in gear. When the frick did people want that shit? To experience basically 95% of the whole game world in a few days or weeks and then you're stuck grinding the same shit forever? Part of what made MMOs fun was hitting level based milestones that allowed you to unlock cooler skills and see areas you couldn't survive previously. Where the frick is the fun in having access to the majority of a game right off the bat, especially when it's all devoid of other players?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      > MMOs need to stop pushing people to endgame just so they can grind several hundred hours for 10% incremental increases in gear.

      Clearing a tier in xiv takes 8-16 hours, depending on your group, and the gear is synched down in everything except two dungeons and three raids. People still rush to end game and do ultimates for no reason other than an ugly weapon and title 95% of the player base doesn’t even understand. People still rush to endgame because it’s where their friends are.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >XIV
        Why would you not rush endgame? It's not like levelling is fun or interesting, and there's no exploration to be had.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          To digest the story. 130 hours of cutscenes is grueling in anything less than 3-6 months.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >rushing to endgame in ffxiv
          You know ffxiv is story first right and I don’t care if you think the story is shit or not but millions of people do like the story and don’t rush to endgame. Endgame rusher are cancer in all mmos second to open world pvpgays, they b***h about nothing to do other than high levels fights then cheat when they do get high level stuff.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        This post gave me cancer.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          It took me longer to farm that mount than clear the current savage tier

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Maybe other games handle this better but I cannot stand the parabolic xp curve idea they have in runescape/osrs and korean MMOs. Ideally if a game had level 1-100, every level should be meaningful and you should be at every level level roughly for the same time period, maaaaybe slightly more towards the higher ones. That way if they made raids and dungeons, you could actually do them for awhile at each incremental level bracket instead of going to one dungeon and getting to level 12 almost instantly and then spending 200 hours going from 95->96

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      People rush to endgame because that's where the gameplay is actually fun
      Big skill gain milestones just means the time spent before that feels like dogshit with a half baked class

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Endgame
        >fun

  97. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Only 30+ boomers want to play a PvE-focused themepark forever game like WoW. Nobody has time for that.
    These days most online games are about round-based competitive PvP. The majority of MMORPGs are WoW-clones with unbalanced PvP (ganking and getting ganked).

  98. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    rpg just means there's some kind of level system from what I've seen. it's got nothing to do with what the acronym should actually mean anymore.

  99. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >play modern mmo
    >no one talks to anyone
    >finally break into a clique
    >it's full of drama and passive aggressiveness
    >any women involved have a basket list of mental illnesses
    >most of the men want nothing to do with others, or are mentally ill and lonely prison gays

  100. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    World of Warcraft was fun because it was a chatroom with swords.
    Final Fantasy VIXIVXXI is a troony discord with swords
    That's the 'legs' of an MMO. The gameplay only gives the players something to talk about and flex over.

  101. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Why did FFXIV fail?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      For the same reasons you did.

  102. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I just want a game that drops me in a random town and tell me to explore as i please, and don't gatekeep me in any way, remove leveling if need be, it's utterly meaningless and a cursed legacy they keep adding to pretend their games are still RPGs. Let me discorver new skills, traits and gear to customize my character however i please instead of forcing me into a static class that is boring as shit to play and railroad me into specific leveling/story locations.
    Unironically i'm starting to find appreciation for Tree of Savior because at the very least, i could reinstall the game, play through the terrible linear content and build a meme character of my own making. Most other modern MMOs can't even pretend at something similar.

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