>give water to a homeless man. >a hit squad comes to murder you

>give water to a homeless man
>a hit squad comes to murder you
Is it possible to implement karma systems in games without them being stupid?

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  1. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    why didn't he just get up off his ass and stop being a lazy frick

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous
    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      how is this guy still alive

      who feeds him

      he's a beggar, that's his job and how he gets food.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      It's not in his programming

  2. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Something like New Vegas but scaled even further.
    Reputation system relative to geographical and social and personal interaction.

    At this point might as well wait for some kind of LLM that manages a player narrative, and interprets what youre doing and assigns some kind of value to a karmic and/or reputational system.
    Have an NPC companion like Navi that asks you what you're doing/did and why if it needs help.

    Would be able to better integrate information sharing and dynamic dialogue too.
    This shopkeeper is smart, so he knows about this, or atleast who to ask.
    This shopkeeper is dumb, so he doesnt.
    This shopkeeper is so dumb, that he sends you the wrong way.

    Bethesda is too technically incompetent to integrate this though.
    It will have to be somebody else.
    Maybe Obsidian if they dont get shut down.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Obsidian hasn't been shut down but they have been thoroughly replaced Ship of Theseus-style. They aren't gonna do it

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        Yeah, I know.
        But they're only other AAA even trying to create open ended TES style RPGs.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      I'd love if reputation with factions in games wasn't just funneled into good and bad, but broken down into many aspects that mix and match. Like there is a separate tracker for killing in favor of the faction, a separate tracker for being lawful, for being a suspected thief, for being a redhanded thief, for being someone who always demands reward, for being altruistic, etc.
      And then different people treat you differently depending on your status. Like to this faction you have been known to kill their enemies, be very lawful, and never ask for money, so they think of you as some kind of Jeebus the savior, or at least a wannabe. Most people would expect you to go fight raiders for them and not offer anything for your trouble, but some would feed you and offer you shelter for free. But if you were known as someone who kills their enemies, is a suspected thief (shit disappears when you come to town, but they never manage to catch you, so they hate you but don't try to apprehend you), and always ask for a reward, you'd be seen as a cuthroat merc and offered bounties for a compensation, but most inns would never allow you to stay the night lest you swipe all of their candle holders and disappear.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Throw in the witness system from RDR2. Wiping out a camp shouldn't affect your reputation if there's nobody left to spread the word

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Trying to balance it out with Tenpenny hiring a hit-squad against you for doing nice things is laughable. Having a hit-squad going against you for going kill-crazy is more than reasonable. Someone somewhere will pick up on this, and will want the serial killer taken out. the story and setting of Fallout 3 is totally nonsensical and focused on gameplay not story or plausibility.

      >karma

      Just call it "Reputation", which is what it is. I saw new vegas director Josh Sawyer hemm and haw about whether Caesar should get a neutral or Evil Karma, which implies even HE doesn't get it. It should just be what the general public sees you as: a kind and generous person, or as a malicious psychopath.

      >Something like New Vegas but scaled even further.
      >Reputation system relative to geographical and social and personal interaction.

      I'm fine with overall rep + faction rep. It can work like "Yeah that guy's a loose canon, but thank god he's on OUR side!" kind of thing.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        >I'm fine with overall rep + faction rep. It can work like "Yeah that guy's a loose canon, but thank god he's on OUR side!" kind of thing.
        I think thats how it tends to work in FNV but the scaling for what grants you good and evil karma is so fricked. I made it a mission one playthrough to be the biggest bastard but still stay in good graces with the NCR and I would get NPC dialogue commenting on that karma+faction rep dynamic. All that went to shit though once I killed about 10 ghouls and became jesus

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        >Trying to balance it out with Tenpenny hiring a hit-squad against you for doing nice things is laughable. Having a hit-squad going against you for going kill-crazy is more than reasonable.
        I wonder why one sided karma is more of a thing.
        I was thinking of an Anarcho-Tyranny setting for an RPG where the alignment has reverse effects.
        >CE
        As long as you don't hurt any of the badguys, the human rights lawyers will save your ass in court like in GTA.
        >NE
        You actively help the badguys out.
        >LE
        You try to take over the badguys within the system
        >CN
        You inadvertently help the badguys.
        >TN
        You ultimately did nothing.
        >LN
        You get to see how messed up the system is.
        >CG
        You try and fail to reform the system.
        >NG
        You are an outcast the media pumps propaganda against you
        >LG
        You are public enemy number 1.

        Also, there is a fake choice where you are told to do something terrible for black mail material but getting around it doesn't actually matter because just getting into the "island" via invitation already implies that you did it.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          Calling everything "good" or "evil" gets rid of the nuance and vague bullshittery inherent in calling things "good" or "evil". Unironically, hide the chaotic-neutral-lawful evil-good-neutral system behind something like the political compass, some faction bullshit, etc., because the point of being "good" while everybody is out to get you is that you aren't "good" to anyone but yourself at best, and may in fact be bad, like in any case in which the old saying "the road to hell is paved with good intentions" applies, or cases in which some killer gets excused for committing a heinous crime just because they were too "young" or even "too pretty".

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      NV's karma system is even more fricked but to be fair they obviously didn't care about it outside of interacting with Cass.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        They put it into upwards of 1 quest and also made the final level perks reliant on it. Good karma even requires you to max it out if you want to benefit from the entire perk and not just a shitty chunk.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      The problem with New Vegas, vanilla New Vegas at least maybe there's mods that fix this, is to get Evil or Very Evil Karma you have to constantly steal everything that isn't nailed down which is not particularly beneficial from a game play stance. Even if you do something pretty evil like kill the brotherhood kill a couple of feral ghouls or a couple of fiends and it's offset and more than offset. In 3 if you wanted to be a nasty evil person it was much easier

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        Yeah it was very unbalanced. I think there are certain raider bosses, that also respawn, that give you +100 karma for killing them which is ridiculous. I mean getting positive karma for killing raiders/fiends in the first place is stupid since you would kill the guy trying to kill you whether you're good or evil. They should have just got rid of the system all together since they obviously didn't care much about it.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        Not him but to be perfectly honest, if you're into crafting then becoming a kleptomaniac becomes extremely lucrative.
        >wrenches, duct tape, glue, scrap for repair kits
        >sensor modules for satchel charges (although you can just use EDE for infinite charges)
        >medical tubing for snakebite tourniquettes
        >tin cans for sierra madre martinis
        >crunchy mutfruits that are worth their weight in solid fricking gold because of how rare they are (used in deathclaw omelettes)
        >potatoes for Cook Cook's Fiend Stew, a decent quality budget food
        >pinyon nuts for Desert Salad, a high quality not so budget food
        >an absolute bounty of plants from NCR sharecropper farms to convert into all sorts of drugs
        >drugs, particularly jet for Rushing Water and Turbo and maybe Rocket, Psycho for Slasher, Vodka for Battle Brew, etc
        >recycling mats - mugs, plates, toasters, clipboards, books, pencils, etc
        >even empty bottles can be turned into pure water at the Sink
        And I'm probably not even remembering everything.

  3. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Should have been one begger only, and involves a quest where you can teach him to rob people or something idk

  4. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    just bring back fallout 2 titles.
    giving water a lot gives you the WATER GIVER title after you, which doesn't send the Talon Company after you, but will make certain npcs call you Water Boy

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      >Stupid smelly hobos call me "Water Boy" and crowd me begging for water
      I'd rather get the hit squads

  5. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Without designing a very intricate reputation system with a shitload of moving parts - no.
    Ironically, Faster Than Light is the game that I believe to have handled morality in the best way possible. You allow people to surrender, you help innocent people out by attacking the ship bullying their outpost, you refuse to attack non-aggressive ships, you don't allow slavers to get away with their crimes against humanity, and what do you get in the end? A thankless miserable death at the hand of Space Hitler Battleship, all because you didn't kill, pillage, murder, and steal enough to invest into your ship and be able to fight back.
    And then you learn things. You slaughter surrendering forces without pause nor regret. You have a jolly laugh with a company of space pirates as you show them how to properly harass and torture civillians by teleporting napalm bombs into their outpost and they give you a weapon as a thanks for a good time. You kill a supply runner delivering cargo to a civillian outpost and you steal their cargo only to find out you can't make use of it because it's just meds for a local plague, so you toss them out the airlock. You attack a slaver ship for the sole purpose of being bribed with another crew member to mann your weapons. And you just grow numb. You don't care about the lives you've ruined. They were a necessary variable in your risk-reward computation, without which you would not have succeeded. Spec Ops The Line can eat rotten shit compared to this image of a monster you have made out of your own self.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      >caring this much about being good in a fictional world

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        >Being this low IQ and autistic that you can't even immerse yourself in a game

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          Wouldn't an autist be the type to be immersed in the first place

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            No.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        To be fair, most games reward you more for being a messiah.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      I'd love if reputation with factions in games wasn't just funneled into good and bad, but broken down into many aspects that mix and match. Like there is a separate tracker for killing in favor of the faction, a separate tracker for being lawful, for being a suspected thief, for being a redhanded thief, for being someone who always demands reward, for being altruistic, etc.
      And then different people treat you differently depending on your status. Like to this faction you have been known to kill their enemies, be very lawful, and never ask for money, so they think of you as some kind of Jeebus the savior, or at least a wannabe. Most people would expect you to go fight raiders for them and not offer anything for your trouble, but some would feed you and offer you shelter for free. But if you were known as someone who kills their enemies, is a suspected thief (shit disappears when you come to town, but they never manage to catch you, so they hate you but don't try to apprehend you), and always ask for a reward, you'd be seen as a cuthroat merc and offered bounties for a compensation, but most inns would never allow you to stay the night lest you swipe all of their candle holders and disappear.

      lmao I'm not reading this but it's hilarious, here's a (You)

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        (you)s aren't valuable, redditor.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      just like irl.

      It affects Cass, a few quests (think you need to be evil or at least neutral to be allowed to do Beyond the Beef for Mortimer), and the level 50 perks. The system is gay shit so I don't know why they tied something as important as those cool perks to karma.
      I don't think it's even possible to max out good karma without murdering the bugged NPCs like ghouls and fiends and legion soldiers. Fun fact - it's borderline impossible to get the evil karma house ending legitimately because you will jump from -1000 (max negative karma) to +1000 (max positive) by just defending yourself from the legion troops during the final battle.

      it's even funnier when you consider the main dev fixed it in a mod.
      like, dude, patch it in you moron

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        >just like irl.
        Ye. You're basically a war criminal and you'll forever be known as the hero of the whole galaxy. And there's nobody to chastise you, either. No polish autist to screech "BUT AT WHAT COST?!" at you. Just your own conscience deciding whether your means justified the ends.
        My favorite part is there is zero talk about this, it's just an inconsequential byproduct in a game thay is just star trek captain pew pew, with no fart-huffing clowns patting themselves on the back for it.
        >it's even funnier when you consider the main dev fixed it in a mod.
        >like, dude, patch it in you moron
        Maybe they're not allowed to work on it anymore after the contract reached its end.

  6. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    They should do what New Vegas did. Have the karma system in place, but it doesn't affect any aspect of the game, so it makes you wonder why they even bothered leaving it in.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      It affects Cass, a few quests (think you need to be evil or at least neutral to be allowed to do Beyond the Beef for Mortimer), and the level 50 perks. The system is gay shit so I don't know why they tied something as important as those cool perks to karma.
      I don't think it's even possible to max out good karma without murdering the bugged NPCs like ghouls and fiends and legion soldiers. Fun fact - it's borderline impossible to get the evil karma house ending legitimately because you will jump from -1000 (max negative karma) to +1000 (max positive) by just defending yourself from the legion troops during the final battle.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        >you will jump from -1000 (max negative karma) to +1000 (max positive) by just defending yourself from the legion troops during the final battle.
        Not if you sneak past/use stealth boys

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          Which nobody would do unless he knows about this shit and really wants the evil ending.

  7. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    The idea of Karma itself is stupid. It's one of those half-truths people tell you to make you just accept things and stop asking questions.

  8. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    how is this guy still alive

    who feeds him

  9. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Yes just tie it to your luck stat

  10. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    I was literally thinking about how New vegas needed a bad karma hit-squad and was gonna mod it in.

    >one bounty hunter in bounty hunter duster and hat, armed with laser or assault rifle
    >three combat armored mercs

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      It would be cool to have set ambush spots where they have a chance to attack rather than just having them appear in front of you when you exit a building.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      that mod already exists

  11. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    >homeless man
    How are you homeless in the apocalypse just find any number of ruins for shelter
    They're free!

  12. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Wait what? What's the logic behind this? I played the game and don't know what this mean

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Good karma players get random encounters with Talon Company Mercs. Bad players get the Regulators

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        Just go neutral then
        EZ PZ

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          It's actually fairly difficult to remain neutral since you get tons of karma for random shit. You would have to go out of your way to do it.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            Just be a raging kleptomaniac, always ask for money and rewards and remember to donate to church and feed the homeless every once in a while.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        LMAO this can't be real, what's the purpose of this

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          more bad guys to shoot

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          >what's the purpose of this
          To provide a sense of difficulty and weight to the main character's karmic actions I guess.
          Too bad it sucks absolute ass (outside of the regulators I suppose, they at least make sense as a bounty hunter crimstopper militia)

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          People out there don't like people like you. This ought to teach you to mind your own business

  13. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Talon Company made perfect sense.
    Chaos is a business opportunity you're directly impacting by doing good deeds.
    Resource scarcity, especially something as vital as water, is massively profitable.
    You give that man some water, nothing much comes of it.
    You give him enough that you're starting to be seen as a fricking saint? Word's gonna get around.
    There's a guy just giving shit away to anyone who asks. Does odd jobs, saves towns, does unbelievably dangerous deeds for pocket change.
    Why pay mercenary groups or price gouged markets for protection or basic resources when Infinite Water Monster Slayer Man is around, saving the Wasteland?
    Super Jesus must die, or business is ruined.

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