>has vram capacity so laughably low even by midrange pc gpu standards of yesteryear

>has vram capacity so laughably low even by midrange pc gpu standards of yesteryear
>equip it with blazing fast memory bandwidth players cant tell if textures are constantly been swapped during gameplay
was it a galaxy brain move?

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  1. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >was it a galaxy brain move?
    It's the kutaragi way

  2. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    good way to save money on RAM

  3. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >where your laser out faster
    >makes people have to buy another system
    >best selling home console of all time

    Universe brain.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      textures are being swapped from system RAM into VRAM, not from the disc into VRAM, otherwise swap speed would be limited by drive reads

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Wouldn’t the speed them be limited by the ram speed? Sorry I’m not a comp sci major.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Simplifying it, but there's two major parts:
          ram speed (how quickly it can move data)
          bus width (how much data it can shove out at once)
          The RTX 4090 GPU has 24GB of GDDRX6 and a bus width of 384-bits. Think of it as 384 lanes for it to shovel 24GB thru, it can do it very quickly of course.

          The PS2 has a bus width of 2560 bits (that's not a typo) so it basically doesn't matter how much data you have to move, or even how fast it moves, you have so much room to send data through that it's a ridiculously tough task to even fill it. Combine that with how much RAM the PS2 has, the target resolution, and how many other things like the vector units and scratch pad RAM it's basically an insanely fast machine for extremely specific tasks, said tasks which are extremely useful for game designers.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          The PS2 VRAM bandwidth is 54GB/s. With VRAM of 4MB. At 60 frames per second, in a single frame it can completely delete the VRAM and fill it again 100 times and still have bandwidth to spare.
          The newest consoles can do it at a single time every 3 frames.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >The newest consoles can do it at a single time every 3 frames
            yeah but how many times can they delete and fill 4mb per frame

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Pretty impressive. As a comparison the sms and gameboy would take about a quarter second to fill their vram.
            Snes and Genesis have DMA so are faster but for a full screen probably is over 3 frames or about 20 fps depending on how big a border you use or reusing tiles.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >where

  4. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Hi there assmad Dreamcast cucklord.
    The PS2 is not as powerful in some ways as many mid range PCs of the time, nor the OG Xbox, but it is still more powerful than the PS1, 3DO, Sega Saturn, N64, as well as the Dreamcast even.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Could you say it's more powerful than any Sega hardware ever made?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        The Genesis Mini thingy exists, so no.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >mogs the PS2

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >retropie
            >more Powerful than the PS2 or Gamecube

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Sorry bud, it's the truth. If Sega revealed that thing in 1999 it would have ended the generation before it started.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Sega didn't make that.

  5. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    too bad Sony didn't tell developers about this in time for the first year's worth of PS2 games to come out

  6. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    having Vice City for Xbox at home, i found it unplayable on PS2 due to its much shorter render distance D:

  7. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    real question is why every game on the ps2 looks so ugly compared to the gamecube and xbox. I RESPECT the ps2 and its library but its like every game you play on it you're viewing through some kind of shit filter. my first console of that gen was a gamecube and then the xbox. Even though I got a ps2 later it was a chore for me to bother playing it because the graphics looked terrible, and i only went deeper into its library after the ps3 launched after sheer curiosity due to its massive library.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The lack of both ram and vram compared to the gc and Xbox means lower texture quality and lower poly count and the disc drive is too poor to stream textures reasonably fast. And almost all games are 448i instead of 480i or 480p so unless you are playing on a crt tv it’ll look soft and it’ll shimmer if you don’t have a good deinterlacer

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        its a real shame, it feels like its graphics are stuck in the ps1 era, and i would just prefer playing old ps1 games at that point.

        the ps1 i can give them the excuse of it being the best they could do at the time and i can appreciate that for what it is, but with the ps2 it just gives me the impression they didnt care enough to make a quality product.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        448i and 480i are the same thing.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I mean you're technically incorrect, but the other anon is more incorrect. 448i just showed up with black bars on the top and bottom of the screen, mostly cut off by overscan on old consumer TVs, the television itself did not handle it as a discrete resolution

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            448i and 480i are the same thing.

            I meant more that ps2 games often internally run at 512x448 whereas all the other consoles including Dreamcast often ran at 480p internally and then output to 480i

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              yeah the PS2 rendering games internally with interlacing is generally why it’s impossible to get a good output from the thing

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      post examples

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        the example is any game that you play natively on the real hardware. im sure the games look much better emulated. never done it or tried it.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I don't see what it is you're talking about

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            everyone says the ps2 is the weakest looking of that gen, the games just dont look as good as the other consoles even if it has an exponentially larger library to select from. not saying it to argue im just saying it because its the truth.i dont know why all of the games i played on ps2 looked so graphically underwhelming compared to gamecube and xbox they just were, i cant explain it any more than that. my overall impression is that a lot of them had a murky look to them with no anti aliasing and many games just looked muddy or washed out and bland. im sure some games looked better than others but it seems like a problem with the ps2s hardware and not an artstyle thing independent to individual games.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Nobody thinks this, and if they do they're wrong.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                my argument here would be that the webm you posted looks nice for the time it came out but would have looked better on the gamecube or the xbox. the xbox especially had beautiful lighting for areas like that.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              real question is why every game on the ps2 looks so ugly compared to the gamecube and xbox. I RESPECT the ps2 and its library but its like every game you play on it you're viewing through some kind of shit filter. my first console of that gen was a gamecube and then the xbox. Even though I got a ps2 later it was a chore for me to bother playing it because the graphics looked terrible, and i only went deeper into its library after the ps3 launched after sheer curiosity due to its massive library.

              Try something like this:
              Play Half Life 2, Riddick, Doom 3, Thief 3, Morrowind and Splinter Cell 3. First play everything on PC, then switch to the Xbox version.
              I hope this breaks your illusion that the Xbox was somehow a powerful console. You are nothing but blinded by your nostalgia.

              In terms of cross platform games, it's clear that the PS2 will fall behind simply because its capabilities relies on effort and development time to extract its full power. Most developers and publishers don't have the time or budget to rewrite the game to take full benefits of the PS2 hardware.
              When you play games developed exclusively for the PS2, you have amazing looking games like Gran Turismo 4, Tekken 5, Metal Gear Solid 3, God of War 2, Soul Calibur III, and FFXII.
              The facial animation shown in FFXII is mind blowing for 2006 (if you did played it back then like I did) and was ahead of its time considering the 2001 hardware. It fully fulfills the envision and capabilities of the Emotion Engine.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >When you play games developed exclusively for the PS2, you have amazing looking games like Gran Turismo 4, Tekken 5, Metal Gear Solid 3, God of War 2, Soul Calibur III, and FFXII.

                you can just compare similar games on the xbox and gamecube though and it proves my point. it isnt to say there arent decent (for the time) looking ps2 games but any game made on the ps2 would have looked better on the other 2 consoles. there are some decent looking ps2 games and a lot of ugly ones. a lot of the ugliest xbox and gamecube games by default look better than the majority of ps2 games.

                Doom 3 might look better on pc but what does it matter? it looks great on xbox and the ps2 never would have been able to port it at all. many people had to upgrade their gaming pc on launch to even play that. its a testament to the strength of the xbox. all of the things you listed on pc still look very good on xbox and you wouldnt be able to even attempt it on ps2 at all. image what doom would look like on a ps2.

                Gran turismo 4 maybe something like project gotham racing
                tekken 4/5 dead or alive 3
                mgs3 looks worse than mgs2 on xbox which was a port
                god of war ninja gaiden black
                soul calibur 3 dead or alive 3
                final fantasy hard to compare this to a specific game off the top of my head with similar environments. xbox didnt have many jrpg games which is a point to the ps2 because it had a great library. my point was never that the library isnt good just that every game ever made on the ps2 was held back visually by the console itself. If it looked good on the ps2 it would have looked amazing on the xbox or gamecube. if it looked like shit on the ps2 it would have probably looked okay on the other consoles.

                i like the ps2 i just wish it wasnt visually so far behind the other consoles.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >xbox can't be a powerful console because PCs are better
                what do you call this logical fallacy?

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Sony's dev tools for PS2 were notoriously bad on launch and for a couple years apparently. It was popular for devs to roll their own solutions from scratch and then keep their own engines secret and improving them as they released additional games, but some even sold their dev tools too.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              This was plainly obvious to anyone who wasn't in diapers back then. You're simply full of shit if you disagree, and the Gamecube was debatably an even weaker system. Anti-aliasing goes a long way.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                im sure the gamecube was weaker in some regards than the ps2 but the games on average still looked better. despite the gamecubes hmble appearance it felt like a powerhouse and like a next generation machine compared to the nintendo 64 or ps1.

                One reason im so fond of the xbox ps2 and gamecube generation is that i do think it was the last time we had 3 consoles that all excelled at certain things and none of them felt like half a console. (saying that thinking of the wii and the wii u and the switch which i feel are gimmick machines) the early line up of gamecube games like luigis mansion, rogue squadron, supersmash brothers melee all felt like a massive step up than anything possible before.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Gamecube was debatably an even weaker system
                I swear you Black folk are something else. Sixth gen power is Xbox > GameCube > PS2. Everyone has known this for twenty years. Only you contrarian homosexuals would say otherwise

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >clock speed is everything!
                t. dumb homosexual

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        helicopters flying over in a racing game is my favorite trope

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          You won't see them anymore, they use camera drones now

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      the example is any game that you play natively on the real hardware. im sure the games look much better emulated. never done it or tried it.

      everyone says the ps2 is the weakest looking of that gen, the games just dont look as good as the other consoles even if it has an exponentially larger library to select from. not saying it to argue im just saying it because its the truth.i dont know why all of the games i played on ps2 looked so graphically underwhelming compared to gamecube and xbox they just were, i cant explain it any more than that. my overall impression is that a lot of them had a murky look to them with no anti aliasing and many games just looked muddy or washed out and bland. im sure some games looked better than others but it seems like a problem with the ps2s hardware and not an artstyle thing independent to individual games.

      my argument here would be that the webm you posted looks nice for the time it came out but would have looked better on the gamecube or the xbox. the xbox especially had beautiful lighting for areas like that.

      Why can't you post any examples?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        This is how the GC looks when unimpeded by the PS2 and Xbox holding things back.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          This looks worse than the PS2 webms that other anon posted.

          so what youre just asking me to make specific anecdotal title lists which is a worse way to argue my point because individual games can each have their own art styles? If you wanted to be objective just compare a game that has been ported and you can play it on xbox ps2 and gamecube like
          resident evil 4
          metal arms glitch in the system
          metal gear solid 2 on ps2 versus xbox

          games ive played and liked on the ps2 that were exclusives off the top of my head i remember looking like shit were
          shinobi
          onimusha warlords (had good art directions though its the ps2 itself thats the problem)
          Front mission 4
          Silent hill 4
          Resident evil outbreak series
          Kinetica would have looked way fricking better on the xbox
          soul calibur on gamecube xbox and ps2 just popped into my mind so there is another multiplat
          Gundam zeonic front is another game that would have looked way better on xbox or gamecube
          this is just shit off the top of my head if i sat and thought longer i could keep going

          >so what youre just asking me to make
          I'm not asking you to make anything, I just asked why you couldn't post any examples.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Only GC could do this.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              You do know that's a pre-rendered background, right? Onimusha 1 blows this out of the water in that regard.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            i didnt post any examples because i think its a worse way to argue this topic, like

            This is how the GC looks when unimpeded by the PS2 and Xbox holding things back.

            he could have picked any game and i would have chose metroid prime 1 which came out early in the gamecubes launch

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              You think posting a visual comparison to back up your claim regarding visual comparisons (

              real question is why every game on the ps2 looks so ugly compared to the gamecube and xbox. I RESPECT the ps2 and its library but its like every game you play on it you're viewing through some kind of shit filter. my first console of that gen was a gamecube and then the xbox. Even though I got a ps2 later it was a chore for me to bother playing it because the graphics looked terrible, and i only went deeper into its library after the ps3 launched after sheer curiosity due to its massive library.

              ) is a worse way to argue than posting a list of names and expecting other people to make the comparisons for you?

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >You think posting a visual comparison
                its a 20 year old topic i figure anyone who is on this board is familiar with the differences in how these consoles look i think its weird you would even ask for one at this point it isnt 2004. if you like the ps2 that much there is no fricking way that you havent seen the way a game looks on all 3 consoles when it comes to multiplat performance. every single fricking time, the ps2 looks worse without fail. and it sucks because i like every console from that gen. it just is what it is.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >bro it's worse just trust me
                I think I'm going to believe the guy who wasn't afraid to post examples.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                are you trolling me or something? google resident evil 4 gamecube versus ps2. google soul calibur xbox ps2 gamecube. i gave you examples already. im just going to listen to this guy and not reply anymore because youre acting purposely oblivious.

                bro you're arguing with an autist don't bother. he'll keep moving goalposts unless you admit defeat in the console war he's been fighting for 20 years

                bro you're arguing with an autist don't bother. he'll keep moving goalposts unless you admit defeat in the console war he's been fighting for 20 years

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >i won't post it because um well j-just look it up yourself!
                No.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                It's generally accepted PS2 games look superior these days. People can tell.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                No it isn’t

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Looks like raw shit.
          ZoomBlack person loses again. When will you leave this board.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Gotcha Force is kino. You should see what the PS2 game by the same team looks like.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            not him but as a gundam fan i think stuff like journey to jaburo or encounters in space would have been even better if they had access ro the hardware that the developers of rogue squadron for gamecube had. ps2 was basically the o nly way you could play gundam games back then.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Fed vs Zeon is a better comparison, and is also on GameCube.
            It also looks better than Gotcha Force.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              That is Fed vs Zeon and it doesn't have a Gamecube port.
              >It also looks better than Gotcha Force
              Not quite.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >doesn't have a Gamecube port.
                Shit you're right, it's Gundam vs Zeta Gundam that has the GameCube port.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              if gundam is on gamecube i was unaware, i was stuck with custom robo which is still a based game but not true mecha. sequel never.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Much better lighting, particles and texture work. Gotcha force is a crap game with terrible visuals.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              GF looks and plays better.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        so what youre just asking me to make specific anecdotal title lists which is a worse way to argue my point because individual games can each have their own art styles? If you wanted to be objective just compare a game that has been ported and you can play it on xbox ps2 and gamecube like
        resident evil 4
        metal arms glitch in the system
        metal gear solid 2 on ps2 versus xbox

        games ive played and liked on the ps2 that were exclusives off the top of my head i remember looking like shit were
        shinobi
        onimusha warlords (had good art directions though its the ps2 itself thats the problem)
        Front mission 4
        Silent hill 4
        Resident evil outbreak series
        Kinetica would have looked way fricking better on the xbox
        soul calibur on gamecube xbox and ps2 just popped into my mind so there is another multiplat
        Gundam zeonic front is another game that would have looked way better on xbox or gamecube
        this is just shit off the top of my head if i sat and thought longer i could keep going

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          bro you're arguing with an autist don't bother. he'll keep moving goalposts unless you admit defeat in the console war he's been fighting for 20 years

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Want a real answer? The aliasing and low res textures just look bad if don't play on a consumer CRT display that naturally smooths things out. My PS2 looks miles better on my shitty 14" CRT TV through SCART RGB than it looks on my 24" gaming monitor through component to HDMI adapter.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Because the PS2s video signal was really low quality. RGB mods really help to make the PS2 look good.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        It looks great with component output.

  8. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    IMO at that point there was no reason why they couldn't have just unified the main system RAM with VRAM like on Xbox, but maybe I'm just too stupid to understand Kutaragi's genius.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      PS2's VRAM is so fast because it's on die. You couldn't fit all of system memory on die.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        But how much of that speed is wasted constantly swapping data in and out?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >PS2's VRAM is so fast because it's on die.
        I thought it was fast because it's a 2560bit RDRAM connection? 4 Megabytes on die would have been impossible, we only reached similar numbers this decade, no way they gonna put that on the chip in 2001.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          You can see the RDRAM there right next to the EE on photos of the board, in two chips. I can't seem to find the actual RAM on photos of the board though - maybe it's underneath?

  9. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Every Capcom game that was ported from GameCube to PS2 got severely fricked (but sold better anyway)

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