How come Xbox emulation on the 360 was so shoddy compared to Xbone and Series?

How come Xbox emulation on the 360 was so shoddy compared to Xbone and Series?

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  1. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    google it

  2. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The PowerPC CPUs of the time were horrible. 3 cores at 3GHz seems decent, but only until you realize that efficiency-per-clock is worse than on a Pentium 4 or Pentium D. What's more, Xbox used x86, which a Little Endian architecture. PowerPC was Big Endian at the time. This means that the way multi-byte integers are stored in memory is backwards when you translate code from one architecture to another and has to be corrected. The guy who wrote the official Xbox emulator for the Xbox 360 stills owns patents for improving the efficiency of those translations and only translating what's actually necessary. Overall, it's a miracle that as many titles run as well as they do. Imagine Xemu running relatively smoothly on a PC with a Core 2 Quad. That would be easier to achieve than good Xbox emulation on Xbox 360 if Xemu developers actually had full access to all of the internal documentation at Microsoft.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >The guy who wrote the official Xbox emulator for the Xbox 360 stills owns patents for improving the efficiency of those translations and only translating what's actually necessary

      >do some math faster than normal
      >get a DMCA letter from Microsoft

      Man software patents are a fricking joke

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I'm not a fan of software patents either, but the good thing about them is that they expire after "only" 20 years. And those patents that he owns have quite specific use cases. They are only useful for emulating Little Endian devices on Big Endian devices. No one does that nowadays because Big Endian is effectively dead as far as local processing on consumer devices is concerned. It only lives on as "network byte order", it's the primary way integers get encoded in network protocol packets. But most client AND server machines also use Little Endian nowadays, so you effectively have Little Endian devices talking to one another over the network using Big Endian encodings with two byte order translations where there could be zero... just because Little Endian was the unusual byte order back in the 70s when those standards were first developed and no one wants to break compatibility. Modern processors are so fast that those order translations don't really affect the performance in any noticeable way.

        I think that copyright is the greater evil overall, because it lasts much longer. Lifetime of the author and additional 50 years on top of that is insane when you think about it. The original Super Mario Bros on the NES is still technically protected by copyright. Even if Miyamoto dies today, it will still be additional 50 years until it becomes public domain. Me and you will probably be dead ourselves by then. IMO we really need legislation that brings the copyright terms length back into sane territory. Doing that would effectively acknowledge the status quo, because the truth is that no one cares about works from 20+ years ago. Trying to report sellers selling "reproductions" of old games on eBay and seeing the results is enough proof of that.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >nooooooooo i can't wait 50 years to steal someone else's idea i need to steal it now!!!!!!!!!!!!

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I struggle to imagine a dumber reply to that guy's post than this.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Entitled baby cope.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I'm not a fan of software patents either, but the good thing about them is that they expire after "only" 20 years. And those patents that he owns have quite specific use cases. They are only useful for emulating Little Endian devices on Big Endian devices. No one does that nowadays because Big Endian is effectively dead as far as local processing on consumer devices is concerned. It only lives on as "network byte order", it's the primary way integers get encoded in network protocol packets. But most client AND server machines also use Little Endian nowadays, so you effectively have Little Endian devices talking to one another over the network using Big Endian encodings with two byte order translations where there could be zero... just because Little Endian was the unusual byte order back in the 70s when those standards were first developed and no one wants to break compatibility. Modern processors are so fast that those order translations don't really affect the performance in any noticeable way.

      I think that copyright is the greater evil overall, because it lasts much longer. Lifetime of the author and additional 50 years on top of that is insane when you think about it. The original Super Mario Bros on the NES is still technically protected by copyright. Even if Miyamoto dies today, it will still be additional 50 years until it becomes public domain. Me and you will probably be dead ourselves by then. IMO we really need legislation that brings the copyright terms length back into sane territory. Doing that would effectively acknowledge the status quo, because the truth is that no one cares about works from 20+ years ago. Trying to report sellers selling "reproductions" of old games on eBay and seeing the results is enough proof of that.

      While PowerPC CPUs had their limitations and the endian mismatch posed significant hurdles for emulation, these challenges also drove innovation in software development. The development of efficient translation methods for emulating Little Endian devices on Big Endian systems, as in the Xbox to Xbox 360 case, represents a remarkable achievement in software engineering. This challenge fostered advancements that could be applied in other contexts where similar architectural translations are needed.

      Software patents, despite their specificity, can be crucial for encouraging innovation. The protection they offer can incentivize individuals and companies to invest in research and development, leading to technological advancements. While they do have a limited lifespan, this period allows inventors to potentially recoup their investment and profit from their innovations, which might not be possible in a highly competitive market without such protection.
      The longevity of copyright does indeed extend well beyond the active commercial life of many works. However, this duration is intended to benefit the creators and their heirs, acknowledging the effort and creativity involved in producing such works. Additionally, copyright protects not just the economic interests but also the integrity and originality of creative works. It's a delicate balance between protecting creators' rights and allowing public access, and there's a valid debate about the optimal duration of these rights.
      While it might seem that works over 20 years old are less relevant, many of them continue to have cultural, artistic, and educational significance. Older games, for instance, are not just nostalgic items but also part of our digital heritage. They influence modern game design and are subjects of academic study. Therefore, their preservation and accessibility remain important.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      You seem like you know your shit anon what are your thoughts on the Xbox One's CPU? t.just a curious coder.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I'm so glad endianness is essentially a thing of the past now. And that the one true endianness won in the end.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        There is no true endianness.

  3. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Emulating X86 on PPC is fricking awful. Talk to anyone with a Power Mac G5 trying to run VirtualPC.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The G4 contained instructions for dealing with endian differences but those were removed in the G5 necessitating a large rewrite of the cpu emulation. Connectix saw the writing on the wall and sold themselves to Microsoft who bought them for their patents and shit out a G5 compatible Virtual PC out of obligation that they promptly abandoned in favor of making VirtualPC for Windows. So it's a similar situation to the 360, do it poorly, release, never improve it.

  4. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    They didn't put a whole lot of effort into it and abandoned it early after only a few updates.

  5. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The 'bc' versions on the Xbone/Series are ports.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      You sure about that? There are a few small instances (like the text in the DOA games, and flickering textures) that makes me think it is being emulated

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I think it's basically the same as Wii VC, where it is technically being emulated, but the emulators are loaded with so many game-specific compatibility hacks that it might as well just be a port.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          There's an old Eurogamer article where MS engineers discuss their BC and they specifically mention recompiling the games. An Xbox One can't emulate an original Xbox, the Jaguar APU is far too weak.

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