This post is aimed especially at boomers since picrel was released in 2007 (not talking about the expansion).
I've played it like week ago, finished all those campaigns, GDI on hard, Nod on medium and scrin on medium.
It's fricking amazing, this game. It really is good and has everything modern rts needs, but it does it in a different way than SC2 (king of the hill that basically killed the genre).
It has
>campaign that does not contradict itself
Like in previous titles GDI ending was the canon one. Boring.
>every single unit have a use and a role to fill
outside just spamming T1 units in first minutes they have upgrades and abilities that make even buggy, pitbull viable in late game
>extremely fast paced combat
Might be a con for some of slower clickers, but it's nowhere near SC1/2 levels of bullshit APM or quadra-base management.
>a good rock paper scissors
Well, every single C&C does it good, but it's surprising that EA managed to do so.
>proper levels of realism
In a timeline that always tried to be scientific one (Tiberium saga) we have got lesser armour on sides and back, infantry crawl when shot by heavy weapons, and player also has tools to manage such atrocities.
>game introduces tons of lore via intelligence data
I guess it was the easiest way to include some lore since it does not required putting up a cameras and make up of Joe kucan
So I'm asking you all a question, how did it die?
This game just seems too good to just be forgotten.
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>So I'm asking you all a question, how did it die?
It was made before games became never-finished, never-done, pay $20 every few months to bugtest our shit heappiles.
EA LA could produce games like it on a very tight schedule but they got fricked by the double-combo of 2008 Economy crysis and a change in EA's CEO, losing a C&C fan high up in the process.
Some of the guys behind it made Supergiant, so Bastion, Transistor, Pyre, Hades... every bad thing has it's positive side.
CNC3 is the last game I remember that had an old style expansion akin to Firestorm or Yuri's Revenge. Red Alert 3 had additional content but it wasn't like that
this was the first and the last game I ever pre-ordered. It was playable but nowhere near good. Multiplayer was pretty bad as well, as the only viable strategy was (back in the game) to use this one rush build not deviating from it at all in any way. Not to even mention the lack of features that were supposed to be in the game.
Dont feel like playing it again at all.
First of all, thank (you) all for answering. There's some good chunk of gamedev industry to be learned. Note that, even that I did not respond to every single one post here - its not because they lack in content, its just sometimes you deplete the topic and theres nothing else to say.
I've played it modded back to original balance, so I didn't experienced such bullshit like zone troopers getting wrecked by buggies 1v1.
https://www.moddb.com/mods/cnc-3-original-campaign-balance-patch
>lack of features that were supposed to be in the game.
What features? I'm really interested about any cut / unifinished content.
Very nice elaboration, thank you.
>EA really pushed a nascent "e-sports"
I heard that battlecast prime was a mistake and backfired on TW, KW, and RA3.
>Starcraft 2, (...) took over the entire competitive RTS space and completely dwarfed all the competitors
I've seen it kill entire genre due to being the one of few RTS that is not actively fighting aganist you (I mean there is no moronic pathfinding, borderline stupid AI and cheating bots).
Please elaborate
kek
What are you talking about. They never made a sequel to Kanes Wrath.
Another one good history lesson
>Bananan Anon
The hell that means?
>EALA fricked up badly the gameplay economy due attempting to pander to the e-sport image
Please elaborate. I did noticed slower build times in KW, more pricey harvesters and generally early rush is an all in instead of just one of many tries.
>see at Red Alert 3 art
I dont get it. Do you mean art direction was similar to MOBA games? I thought C&C4 did this one.
>As a consolation...
Nice mod. I'm trying the Forgotten today.
Cont.
I was around and conscious at the time. I can give you a quick run down.
C&C 3 was released in a hot year for RTS games. Other games that came out that year include: Supreme Commander; World in Conflict; Universe at War: Earth Assault; Sins of a Solar Empire; Medieval II: Total War Kingdoms; Empire Earth III
C&C3 at that time was viewed as a sort of 'throwback' or 'classic style' RTS game compared to some of the more innovative competitors at the time (especially Supreme Commander and WiC)
Many of the 'hardcore' C&C fans (and the burgeoning competitive scene around C&C Generals) was burned pretty bad because EA randomly stopped supporting Zero Hour after patch 1.2. This was not a big deal for the average person but they talked a lot of shit on forums
Despite all the above, the game sold well and was well received and people generally had a high but not ecstatic opinion of it
EA really pushed a nascent "e-sports" angle with C&C3. They had like sponsored tournaments, innovative (for the time) spectator modes, etc.
This never really took off, the game had a pretty decent multiplayer community but most people just played the single player. There were some 'hardcore' C&C players in MP but...
Starcraft 2, released in 2010, and basically took over the entire competitive RTS space and completely dwarfed all the competitors
This coincided with a decline in interest in the genre as a whole which relegated particularly games from this era to be forgotten. It's too modern to be retro like AoE2; too old to be playable comfortably today)
Finally, C&C3 (like many EA games at this time) lacked many modern features such as good widescreen / ultrawide support, capped FPS, merely OK netcode, etc. that meant that the game probably needs a remaster before it will be touched by a modern audience today
Oh yeah and finally it didn't get lots of good post-release support to the extent that would be needed to keep it relevant and interesting. EA RTS games were notorious for getting only a small handful of big patches.
This is a good summary. I remember being hyped for a return to classic C&C and it was a solid entry. Sadly it was the beginning of the RTS downturn with mobas exploding a couple years later
>capped FPS
Is that really that important to the modern audience? Sure there may be a difference between 30 and 60 FPS, but it's not large enough for me to not be able to play games in the prior.
Children are moronic and a significant portion of potential customers are going to be said children.
if your pc can handle 60 fps why does the game force you to use 30 fps? its bs
Would you truly notice the difference without an FPS counter? C&C is an RTS, you aren't going to be looking at animations up close.
NTA, but the autists definitely would, and that's half the userbase for RTS games.
In fact there is a mod to up to 60fps, sadly everything in the game seems to be link to FPS, which resulted in you having to turn to 65% speed when using such a mod in order to make the game work at human controllable phase.
>C&C3 at that time was viewed as a sort of 'throwback' or 'classic style' RTS game compared to some of the more innovative competitors at the time
Tiberian Sun was viewed exactly the same back in 1999, and received the same criticism (too archaic compared to its competition). Unlike C&C3, TS was NOT well received, though. But it's lacking gameplay is compensated by it's artstyle, atmosphere and OST, so it achieved cult status. C&C3, despite having far better gameplay, is very lacking in those areas (it's quite soulless, actually), so it's relegated to be forgotten.
Cont 2/2
I've found an issue of CD-Action that mentions TS breaking world record of sold copies. The same magazine includes review that got like 8 or 9 out of 10, and it praises Napoleonian tactics such as burning the trees to burn enemy infantry, and destabilising ice by artillery so the enemy team drown.
Funny thing is, several issues later when reviewing the Firestorm TS expansion they described the base game as archaic, and FS would be "repeating its predeccesor mistakes".
>compensated by it's artstyle, atmosphere and OST
True. TW has like three OST I could remember after beating entire game, main menu theme, loading theme, and victory theme.
Shame. It was supposed to be a good one C&C. Would probably be forgotten as an FPS.
>RA3 sometimes look like you are on acid
Kek. Its true tho.
This is a good recollection. I’d only add that, very simply, a lot of players had forgotten about C&C as a brand from 2003-2007. Generals was decent, but having a 4-year gap between releases was a kind of “kiss of death” imo, when just the rts landscape alone was crowded back then. Plus other genres, mmo time sinks like wow, and competing forms of entertainment (gaybook). People already thought of C&C as a nostalgia brand then.
It doesn't need a remaster. It plays perfectly well on Windows 10. I played through TW and KW no problem last year. I feel they still hold up very well.
World in Conflict is not an RTS
90% of people that play strategy games don't actually like strategy.
explain
>how did it die
EA
dEAth
C&C4 was probably the worst game ever made. They took some asian mobile game and slapped the title on it before promoting it with screenshots stolen from Starcraft 2. It was a professional assassination of the franchise. Personally I think that they outsourced the whole thing to demons because, while successful, C&C3 wasn't anywhere near as popular as their astronomical expectations. Mostly because of incredibly stiff competition and stubborn boomer homosexuals refusing to play the game at the time because of the EA logo.
>Mostly because of incredibly stiff competition and stubborn boomer homosexuals refusing to play the game at the time because of the EA logo.
I can't speak for other boomers, but I didn't play it at the time because the system requirements raped my PC. I loved generals and everything I'd seen of C&C3 pre-release looked great, but I wasn't going to buy new hardware for it.
It is true some people went fricking moronic on reception of C&C3, while some of them were AVGN funny in their level of nerdrage and trolling others simply went on for the sake of contrarianism and "hey look I am posting on internet", basically demanding EA to just make an expansion of TS without any sort of improvement in the UI or graphics, also, moderation at the official forums was complete garbage.
In general the whole thing suffered of bad mismanagement.
As for System Requirements, yeah, C&C suffered from requirement creep, not helped by the fact EA had the nasty custom of throwing more and more unnecessary effects in the game to the point RA3 sometimes look like you are on acid while saturation has been dialed up to 100 percent.
MOBAs killed rts etc
>AND THEN I SMASHED HER HEAD IN LIKE THIS!
>-Dota 2, probably
To make it short from Bananan Anon:
-EALA fricked up badly the gameplay economy due attempting to pander to the e-sport image, this in turn destroyed skirmish as the AI became moronic due all the huge nerfs to tiberium harvesting
-Once it became obvious this was not going to turn into an e-sport EA dropped support.
By the way, there is also the fact even SC2 was struggling to make a presence when MOBA was taking over anyone remotely capable of understanding unit tactics and strategy, for free, of course EA and other companies invested tons of money in MOBAs as well as the nascent mobile industry, the result was hilarious given the rate of failures seen at the industry.
EA being EA they are good for big yearly stunts but terrible at long term planning, they wanted to have stuff like LoL in MOBA or FGO in mobiles, but you only have to see at Red Alert 3 art to see they had no fricking idea what they were doing, they never have, they just believe in hype and truth be told average gamers too.
As a consolation C&C3 was released back when companies didn't see mods and fan-created content as competition and still managed to caught enough of an actually talented fanbase to keep the game alive for anyone who cared.
And to add to this, while it probably wasn’t a big factor for the game’s popularity, it has to be mentioned that all those MP-aimed unit and economy nerfs went straight to the single player campaign and the missions were never rebalanced. So, the game is A LOT harder now than it was on release, because you’re getting less money and some of supposed power units like Mammoth tanks are far weaker now.
Not really related to the main question, like I said, but just in case someone didn’t know this already.
Are there any mods that undo the nerfs?
You might need to look in fan forums for that.
>link posted three posts prior
>are there any mods that undo the needs?
It undoes the harvester shit but not the unit nerfs.
CnC G2 was found to be so bad that EA would not release it at the risk of having dropping share prices even tho the beta was finished.
A decade later these geniuses would pull off Battlefield vegana and 20x42%
>This post is aimed especially at boomers since picrel was released in 2007
The youngest boomer was 42 in 2007
Not too many of them were playing this game then
It didn't "die" though? This is like asking how Tiberum Sun died. It had a good run from the original release to Kane's Wrath (sound like you haven't played that one yet, you'll probably like it). Back then RTS games weren't really expected to survive indefinitely sure, games like AoE2 and RA2 had a small scene, and Brood Wars never really went away, but nobody was expecting perpetual support or new patches or anything like that. When fricking GameSpy died half of the zeroes catalogue fricking lost their multiplayer for a while. Point is, it sold well, had a good reputation, and people were finally looking forward to the next one after original developer change concerns and undeservingly harsh reception Generals got.
The real "killers" were RA3 and the so-called 4th entry in the Tiberium series. Now, the campaign in RA3 is great, but they lost the multiplayer scene completely to the point the expansion for RA3 didn't even have the multiplayer content. So in order to reclaim it they decided to pull a DoW2 with the next Tiberum game, except in reality they pulled a DoW3, if you forgive the anachronism.
They canceled Tiberium, the Commando FPS.
Another thing to note besides these other Anons, the old C&C games lives because EA made the old games up to RA1 freeware release officially even if they don't have the classics on their web page anymore. So right now you can get amazing fan support and non-shady downloads for the Tiberium trilogy up to Sun and Red Alert 2 and play them right now. There is even specifications for people having difficulties with Win10 and a very convenient installers.
Note: RA2 has an indepedent MP only version fans maintains, the game isn't released as freeware.
It doesn't feel like a sequel to Tiberian Sun.
>playing russian version of kane’s wrath
>select enlightned
>”my honour is loyalty”
>no such quote in english dub
Why do they do dis?
NOD subfactions in KW had really good voicelines. Blackhand for me all the way.
>Cииилa...этo пyть...к MИИИИPУ!
That weird-ass intonation gets me every time