how would you fix the thief reboot without turning it into another dishonored? for me it's
>return old voice actor which has also voiced corvo in dishonored 2
>remove redundant hand animations
>add jump instead of slide
as minimum
how would you fix the thief reboot without turning it into another dishonored? for me it's
It's not about individual mechanics or mistakes. The entire game is fundamentally designed wrong. Every aspect of the design is formulated around a story-driven experience where the developers and level designers decide every available outcome for you. That is the opposite of how Thief games were supposed to be designed. The entire thing needs to go, and a completely different thing needs to replace every part of it. Thief 2014 isn't a 0 / 10 game because it's bad. Thief 2014 is a -7 / 10 game because it's wrong. It's worse than nothing. It is less fit for purpose than something that doesn't work.
It can't be fixed. Although your suggestions would improve the basic gameplay, it's like says. Everything in the game is designed wrong, starting with the levels. There's no exploration, just walking a set path to the next cutscene while picking up forks, plates and scissors like a cleptomaniac.
There is a salvageable framework for a stealth game, sure, but all the actual content needs to be remade.
>There is a salvageable framework for a stealth game
Even that is debatable, considering that 1. light is arbitrary and functionally does not represent how much it makes you visible, 2. sound propagation does not exist and enemies can just hear things that they've been scripted to react to, and 3. the AI is so dumb that they can lose you and return to patrol two seconds after the last sighting of you, after chasing you into an inaccessible place. I don't know what you could salvage from that framework. Perhaps the bare minimum of body awareness in whatever constitutes "free" movement in the game? Your legs are procedurally animated in open spaces, but all the other animations are contextually, physically bound to whatever the animation is trying to visually flavor.
Oh yeah, I forgot about the godawful sounds. I could never figure out where the enemies were since the sounds made no sense. The originals had a much more advanced system.
The AI would probably be fixable to a certain extent, just make them remain alerted much longer. The original games had the enemies remain more alert for several minutes after the chase, and they remained twitchier even when they had seemingly resumed patrol.
But you're right, at that point might as well start from scratch.
This is dumb, opening windows, doors and drawers animation is good design because it serves as part of the difficulty as to when to loot and move at the right time.
Any big fan who has played Thief 1,2,3 like a ghost dreamt of something like that to increase immersion and difficulty.
I feel like only casuals who played Thief 1,2,3 will cry over this change because they blackjack everything and then just want to get done with the game by fast looting everything.
This is the least concern
The problem with Thief 4 is not the interaction animations, it's the needlessly large hub world and corridor like levels populated by basic AI and the inability to jump and rope arrow.
The lack of sandbox levels is the biggest problem in Thief 4.
that webm is pure autism
well fucking said.
It really comes down to this. Linear level design, scripted routes, scripted scenes, too high of a non stealth gameplay to stealth gameplay ratio, too much information makes the game trivial (they just give you a minimap with a marker on it).
The one thing I think they could take from it is the vague general idea of an open world between missions that you can do stuff between, but instead of implementing it like they did where each mission will cutscenes you to the next and the jobs are less than 3 minutes excursions and they use the same prebaked solutions for everything, make a world that interacts with the tools they give you and navigating it feels natural and wants you to explore and you can find some really good extras along the way.
I would never sacrifice good levels for that which is what would inevitably happen, but having to arrive at a mission organically could be really interesting.
Fpbp
The devs of t4 never knew what made t1 and t2 good. Originally you were detected at the end of every level in t4 and had to play an escape sequence, thankfully somebody pointed that out in the very first presentations of t4
>but how is he a master thief if he gets caught and has to flee at the end of every level?
>oh, well, uuh...thats a good point, Ill check on that with the team
That was the first moment where I had fat doubts about t4
I don't believe for a second that you have actually played the game. At least not longer than the intro mission.
It's a fundamentally bad game, but there certainly were things that could be polished up to become on the level of the new Deus Ex games, say.
You do not understand Looking Glass game design at all if you are capable of having this opinion. You can't look at Thief 2 and Thief 2014 and come to the conclusion that they used the same design philosophy. It's not polishable. The entire ground work for what constitutes the base of design is not the correct one. Thief 2014 is designed to convey a specific story using specific setpieces, precisely the way the designers intended, by inclusing an enumerated array of pre-determined activities for the player to activate explicitly. If you don't know why that's the opposite of what Thief needs to have, then you're about as inoperable as Thief 2014 is unfixable.
I think that the new Deus Ex games are polished turds, if you will. They start from a bad beginning but are very well made.
It's a lousy way of making good art, but it is what it is.
And yea, of course you wouldn't be able to make a proper thief game with the direction they went in, but if you played the game you will see the glints of creativity from at least some of the devs.
I don't personally know what went wrong, but I always lean on the side of it being an issue with the higher-ups.
Especially when it comes to these, directionless, split design products.
>I don't personally know what went wrong, but I always lean on the side of it being an issue with the higher-ups.
The original team went to make a direct sequel to Deadly Shadows hence why it was called Thi4f. It was the fourth game. The team got the boot and another team came in and was asked to reboot that project. So they messed around with making it like AC through the fact it was heavily third-person and had parkour elements. That design went to hell so they rebooted it again and tried to recuperate their losses by making a game that tries to grab the largest audience. You see this later in the development interviews where the project leads clearly have no idea what makes a Thief game a Thief game. So to defend their incompetence they just throw terms like "immersion", "the way we play games today is different to how we played them in the past" and "modern gamers are different".
It's essentially the start of the rot that we see very commonplace now in interviews with devs.
>i have a different opinion so you didnt play it
seeing this retarded take thrown around here a lot for some reason
take note from Hitman reboot trilogy
>literally the same gameplay from the old trilogy (absolution huh? whats that?)
>but now its more polished
>handholding is entirely optional
>return old voice actor
I keep hearing he's old and can't do the voice tho.
What does he sound like in Starfield then?
I think it's insane how the devs of Deus Ex Human Revolution perfectly understood what made Deus Ex gameplay good and tried their hardest to do that again, but the devs of Thi4f didn't have the slightest understanding of anything that made Thief's gameplay good and basically implemented the polar opposite of how it should be done. How do you divide dev teams that efficiently into the good and the bad camp? It almost reminds you of Ion Storm. Ion Storm Austin made Deus Ex and Thief 3, and Ion Storm Dallas made Daikatana.
Deus Ex devs made Thief 3? I have only played Thief 3 and remember it was good for me when I was younger. However, I keep hearing people saying that Thief 1 and 2 are the best. Was Thief 3 considered trash by the community when it came out, kinda like Thi4f?
It was considered pretty bad. Fundamentally solid but suffered from major consolitis because they wanted to make it work on the Xbox. That meant pretty graphics but tiny levels segmented with loading screens, and some of the most fun elements like rope arrows were gone. There was also the extremely shallow faction system that was shoehorned in as was the trend at the time, causing the hub levels to often devolve into chaos because the areas were tiny.
However it was nothing like the disaster the reboot was, it was still a solidly designed Thief game, just with issues making it a disappointing sequel.
Should I play them in order from the first one, or start from II? I am not sure how the graphics will appeal to me now.
Play 1 first, I would say, but I'm not sure how much it matters.
Play them in order.
You play 1. Then 2. Then maybe fanmade content.
And that's it.
All three in order since it's a continuous story, and II has the same gameplay as the first one anyway, just with extra trinkets and a different overall theme.
>Was Thief 3 considered trash by the community when it came out
Somewhat. The game was criticized for the animation-based removal of rope arrows and swimming due to the insistence on having third person perspective for the console kiddies. The animation-centrism also made the game clunky to control, and the consoles dictated the levels to be smaller and divided by loading screens. Other than that, the game tries its best to be a Thief game despite its console-dictated limitations.
It was over a decade later that Randy Smith finally admitted that rope arrows and swimming were cut because of animations.
I wouldn't say that mankind divided is a good deus ex game, but good point regardless
>how would you fix the thief reboot
How would I know? I never played it because everyone says not to, calling it a soulless abomination.
Just mod the original.
Isn't that gas FX based on the same exact stock explosion video that is in the intro of MacGyver?
Are there any mods that improve the AI/make it more lethal? That's the one thing I think has aged somewhat poorly.
dont listen to boomers, killing everyone is the best part of the game
I am a boomer/played it in my teens. It's just on revisiting it I can run loops around most enemies.
>how would you durrr hurrrr pffffff rrrrrr asdsasdasd
>how would you fix the thief reboot
By not making it.
make the level design actually good, and reintroduce the arrows as the best part was to use them strategically
I would rather prefer someone remade Thief 3 while keeping the plot intact and just fixing leveldeisgn and expanding the city.
As for sequel T3 had potential sequel bait with the girl apprentice.. Oh, wait that's just Dishonored 2, kek.
I don't think it's possible to come to the conclusion that Garrett would have an apprentice if you knew the character from the three games. He may have accepted what his role was in the keeper order, but his entire personality is completely against teaching anyone. And he is against sentimentality, and there would be no reason for him to care if someone continues his work. He always wants one big score so that he could retire on his own terms before a time when he's incapable of doing the work himself.
the ending of thief 3 is a reference to the beginning of thief 1. just like garret was able to see the keeper, the little girl was able to see him. he saw himself in the girl and decided to help her the way the keepers helped him
Cock ring
I'd turn it into another thief instead.
Just go play Dark Messiah you fucking cry babies
Its made by OG thief devs and dishonored devs
>retard thinks he's the first one to play dark messiah as if not everyone in this thread has played it
No but you clowns will always bring up Dishonored and DarkMod but never talk about Dark messiah for Thief alternatives
what's there to talk about besides 'xana is a miracle of the universe'? dm is flawless, thief on the other hand is interesting to discuss in the context of how a pure stealth game could be made nowadays
yea dark messiah plays so much like thief guys
>how would you fix the thief reboot without turning it into another dishonored
turn it into a thief game you stupid retard
>Bring Stephen Russell back
>Bring Eric Brosius back for a soundtrack
>Bring Daniel Thron back as art director
>Bring Terri Brosius and Ken Levine back as writers
This would be a start.
I honestly think if given the proper care and time VR is honestly the way to go for stealth games. Get a studio like Valve that is passionate for pushing the tech to an extreme level
>mom said it's my turn to rob Lord Bafford's manor
just use metal age as a foundation
update the graphics
improve the enemy AI
keep garrett as the master thief that he is, not some hotheaded rookie
don't add a fucking sidekick
the old cinematics were perfect
no waypoints
rope arrow, water arrow, blackjack and a sword should be part of the core gameplay
fuck, i'm going to play dark project and metal age again, bye
what's your favorite thief mod? thoughts on shadows of the metal age?
very oc donut steel but otherwise great