>arbitrary feature >directional attack
lol, the game has tons of combat that just boils down to get close to them and spam the attack button, which isn't the case for just about ALL metroidvanias.
The platforming is god tier tho, and the bash mechanic is one of the best mechanics I have ever seen in any metroidvania
I've played Super Mario World, the platforming in that game makes Ori's lame platforming look utterly pedestrian.
it doesn't, but the artistry of the game is overhyped. how many actually striking screens are in ? city of tears fountain and the cave trial top row middle column are the only two that inspire any kind of thoughts of "that looks nice"
its more about the atmosphere
the ambient sounds and music play a big part
Haven't played in years but here's what I remember off the top of my head:
>can't warp between benches cause muh stag station sidequest bullshit >except stag stations are so poorly placed that it's often quicker to run from one end of the map to the other which causes needless backtracking in the second half of the game >combat never progresses beyond mash X forever to win; to combos or parrying or light/heavy attack >money becomes meaningless too early >no primary weapon beyond the nail >Deepnest is literally worse than Blighttown >forced to waste a charm slot just to see your character on the map >filling in the map is an unnecessary three step process (buy map from spider, wander around, sit on bench to update) instead of being streamlined into one step like every other game ever made >annoying screen freeze when taking damage
He means the game is a glorified bullet hell game. As in it doesn't have a real combat system where enemies have actual attack animations with different patterns you need to learn.
>glorified bullet hell game
The most bullets you dodge at once is maybe three from random mobs that die in one hit. What is wrong with Hollow Knight disablers?
Haven't played in years but here's what I remember off the top of my head:
>can't warp between benches cause muh stag station sidequest bullshit >except stag stations are so poorly placed that it's often quicker to run from one end of the map to the other which causes needless backtracking in the second half of the game >combat never progresses beyond mash X forever to win; to combos or parrying or light/heavy attack >money becomes meaningless too early >no primary weapon beyond the nail >Deepnest is literally worse than Blighttown >forced to waste a charm slot just to see your character on the map >filling in the map is an unnecessary three step process (buy map from spider, wander around, sit on bench to update) instead of being streamlined into one step like every other game ever made >annoying screen freeze when taking damage
Metroidlikes are not for you.
The money complaint was totally valid on release though, although they later fixed it.
Blighttown is one of the best areas of Dark Souls wtf
>Blighttown is one of the best areas of Dark Souls wtf
NTA but the shittiest area of first game was not Blighttown, or Lost Izalith. It was fricking New Londo Ruins.
1 year ago
Anonymous
The upper bit when the water is high? Frick no, that shit was great. When you've drained the water? Yeah it was kinda underwhelming.
1 year ago
Anonymous
New Londo Ruins is great, it's the best of the 4 paths in the second half
Oh frick off. Symphony of the Night and Super Metroid came out 20+ years prior to Hollow Knight and are better in literally every way. Ori 1 & 2 outclass Hollow Knight as well. Metroid Dread is one of the only games I've 100%. Bloodstained had its problems but was a lot of fun to break in half. Even Blasphemous was less of a chore to play and I found it a step below the others.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Ori was too dull for me to bother playing more than a couple of hours. Maybe it gets good, but if it does, it's awfully paced. More likely it doesn't get good.
If you don't like being unable to fast travel and having to actually know your area instead of relying on maps then it really doesn't seem like the genre is for you.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Oh frick off. Symphony of the Night and Super Metroid came out 20+ years prior to Hollow Knight and are better in literally every way. Ori 1 & 2 outclass Hollow Knight as well. Metroid Dread is one of the only games I've 100%. Bloodstained had its problems but was a lot of fun to break in half. Even Blasphemous was less of a chore to play and I found it a step below the others.
Oh, and you seem fixated on the combat for some reason. In a metroidlike? You sound like one of those people who play Souls games for the bosses.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Saying "the genre isn't for you" doesn't actually address any of the game's problems, of which there are many. My only hope is the developers learn from their mistakes with the sequel but my guess is for every problem they fix they will ruin something else.
1 year ago
Anonymous
But they're not problems. I love how you can't rely on a map constantly. I love that you don't have the ability to fast travel everywhere and that the world is easy and fun to traverse manually. Those are things I like about the game, and I don't want casuals removing them in the name of accessibility.
There are plenty of Metroidvanias with complex combat. HK's problem is that that combat is shitty HP bloated nonsense and its exploration is unfun at the same time.
Metroidlikes don't need complex combat because it's not what you're focused on. They can have them, sure, but it's not bad if they don't have them.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Cool. I sunk 10 hours into HK before I gave up on it ever getting better. That is complete fricking unacceptable for a Metroidvania of all genres. It has the worst pacing I've ever seen from a game of its type.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>Symphony of the Night and Super Metroid came out 20+ years prior to Hollow Knight and are better in literally every way.
No they arent at all, HK has much better combat, platforming, bosses, story/lore and exploration, the only thing castlevania does betters is the music and super metroid is good but HK is still a better game, I cant belive people defend Metroid when the only reward you get for exploring is more missiles and the ocasional energy tank
1 year ago
Anonymous
>HK has much better combat
No >platforming
No >bosses
Yes, but the boring combat ruins it. >story/lore
No >exploration
Frick no.
1 year ago
Anonymous
k buddy, stay alone with your wrong opinion.
1 year ago
Anonymous
I don't even like SotN and I feel like SM is dragged down from being the apex of the genre by mediocre combat. HK is just shit.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>HK >better exploration than fricking Super Metroid
I pray this is bait, because I don't know what level of sycophant you have to be on to believe it.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>launch a super bomb on this screen to break a block that looks like every other block ever to find a health tank
Very sugoi exploration
1 year ago
Anonymous
I'm sorry that your intuition is that damaged from decades of eating junk food.
1 year ago
Anonymous
The majority of Ganker is underage and has never played most of the games they talk about
1 year ago
Anonymous
this is actually true, since anyone unironically praising SotM and SM has clearly never played those games
1 year ago
Anonymous
Do you not have enough self esteem to feel shame when you write these ridiculous reddit switcheroo posts? Do you need attention from strangers on a website that badly?
1 year ago
Anonymous
>I cant belive people defend Metroid when the only reward you get for exploring is more missiles and the ocasional energy tank
Compared to geo that barely matters, Not-Pieces-of-Heart from Zelda that don't do anything until you get enough of them, or charms, only a few of which actually make a real difference, SM rewards you far more for exploration and it rewards you faster.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Lets see
SM rewards from exploring: >HP upgrades, ammo upgrades
HK rewards for exploring: >HP upgrades, Damage upgrades, mana upgrades, upgrades for your spells, new charged attacks for your nail, money, charms, optional areas, optional bosses, grubs (wich give you various rewards depending on the amount that you already have collected), a map that leads you to the grubs you missed, lore, a final platforming challenge
Btw the charms are always useful, even if you are not going to use them they allow you buy more notches, and once you have them all you unlock an upgrade that aplies to all benches
1 year ago
Anonymous
No. Go frick yourself if you're going to be disingenuous like that.
1 year ago
Anonymous
That's a concession if I ever saw one
1 year ago
Anonymous
You ignored the upgrades you actually got in SM. It's not a concession, it's calling you out on being a homosexual.
1 year ago
Anonymous
That anon isnt me
You dont get optional upgrades in SM for exploring (besides the health and ammo), if I counted those then I would also have to expand the rewards you get in HK for exploring
1 year ago
Anonymous
Yes you do, there are so many completely optional upgrades in SM that you can complete the game without and that's not counting the ones that are only barely not mandatory like the Varia or Gravity Suit.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>I-It doesnt count!
Concession acepted
1 year ago
Anonymous
>play HK, hyped for it because it's supposedly a good Metroidvania >bored the entire time until I finally drop it, no part of it is good >wonder if I've grown out of Metroidvanias >play Dawn of Sorrow to test that >It's fun right away and I have enough fun with it to replay it again immediately after I finish it
Go frick yourself. Metroidvanias do not have a single shape they must always take.
1 year ago
Anonymous
If you're fixated on complex moment-to-moment combat and hate exploration then I think it's fair to say that games which focus on exploration and don't care about complex moment-to-moment combat might not be for you, angry-kun.
1 year ago
Anonymous
There are plenty of Metroidvanias with complex combat. HK's problem is that that combat is shitty HP bloated nonsense and its exploration is unfun at the same time.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>HK's problem is that that combat is shitty HP bloated nonsense
unironic skill issue
Well, the combat stays mostly the same but the enemies and bosses are plentiful and vary a lot, not two encounters really play the same. I don't know many people who said they were bored of the combat, even fully knowing that the nail was mostly all you had because the game is varied enough that it doesn't feel boring.
The rest are just very personal nitpicks, most of which made it a better game for me, a worse blighttown is everything that I ever wanted in a game and I don't think Deepnest even comes close to that in the first place.
>backtracking
You have stagways, shortcuts, trams, and a fricking Dreamgate >combat
a proper parrying mechanic could be nice, I agree. Charge attacks exist and become viable at the cost of one notch >money
yeah, the game provides you with too much money and no real way to spend it >one weapon
personal preference, just like ds / sekiro. magic is a viable build >deepnest
there's nothing difficult or annoying about it. Literally an early game location and you get the map for it right away. skill issue >compass
one notch is nothing >map
skill issue >screen freeze
?
Oh frick off. Symphony of the Night and Super Metroid came out 20+ years prior to Hollow Knight and are better in literally every way. Ori 1 & 2 outclass Hollow Knight as well. Metroid Dread is one of the only games I've 100%. Bloodstained had its problems but was a lot of fun to break in half. Even Blasphemous was less of a chore to play and I found it a step below the others.
>Symphony of the Night and Super Metroid
I'm glad this meme still exists because it immediately outs you as a moron trying very hard to fit in
I don't get what's so special about that game >there is no innovation in the gameplay (same player character and memory-based damage sponge bosses as every other 2D game); >the only post-game challenge they could think of is a permadeath mode; >the story is Bloodborne but boring and simple, with pointless depressing atmosphere in every area of the game because that was cool at the time; >it's presented in a cryptic and pretentious way, as if they wanted to force you to think that this game is deep and different than others. >Same thing for the art direction (for example, the contrast between the cute drawings and the sad plot confuses the dumber players by lowering their expectations, so they find more impactful the otherwise stupid story); >the infection is just another excuse to make everyone attack you because they couldn't come up with a decent antagonist; >there is no variety among the areas, every zone is the same cave with a different color palette; >the music is forgettable and there is no variety, every song is sad and slow; >the sound design is boring, the voices of the npcs and bosses are annoying.
The target audience of this game are those people that have been playing AAA PlayStation games for so long that they forgot how the good 2D games actually look like.
I love how every post is >list of things I personally don't like
and then ends up with the assumptions that people who like it must be zoomers/casuals/morons
>there is no innovation in the gameplay (same player character and memory-based damage sponge bosses as every other 2D game);
The bosses in HK are much better than anything on Metroid or Castlevania, and while its true that Hollow Knight doesnt innovate that much, the pogo attack gives the combat and platforming much more depth than other metroidvanias >the only post-game challenge they could think of is a permadeath mode;
You didnt play the game, there is an entire optional area that serves as a final platforming challenge and there is like 4 super bosses, there is also a boss rush with new bosses and harder versions of some of the easier ones >the story is Bloodborne but boring and simple, with pointless depressing atmosphere in every area of the game because that was cool at the time;
You dont know HK story if you think its the same as bloodborne, they only thing in common with BB is that there is an infection, the world is also much less depressing than the usual stuff that you see in fromsoft games where everything is apocalyptic >it's presented in a cryptic and pretentious way, as if they wanted to force you to think that this game is deep and different than others.
How? Fromsoft does the same thing, in fact this game is much less cryptic than elden ring or bloodborne >Same thing for the art direction (for example, the contrast between the cute drawings and the sad plot confuses the dumber players by lowering their expectations, so they find more impactful the otherwise stupid story);
This is just you rambling, the art style was chosen because its simplistic not because its cute
>(Cont) >the infection is just another excuse to make everyone attack you because they couldn't come up with a decent antagonist;
Metroid, fromgames and castlevania do the same shit and I dont see people complaining about it, and the game does have a clear antagonist its not my dault that you didnt play it >there is no variety among the areas, every zone is the same cave with a different color palette;
This one is true but atleast it has more variety than Metroid, in HK there are some areas with a unique desing like the pala e or the crystal caves >the music is forgettable and there is no variety, every song is sad and slow;
This one is also true but from and metroid do the same shit, only castlevania has actual music >the sound design is boring, the voices of the npcs and bosses are annoying.
That is your opinion I find the noc voices funny and so do most people
In conclusion you didnt play the game, if you did you would complain about actual shit desing choices in the game instead of projecting your awful taste
1 year ago
Anonymous
Thank you for making arguments to counter what I said >You didnt play the game, there is an entire optional area that serves as a final platforming challenge and there is like 4 super bosses, there is also a boss rush with new bosses and harder versions of some of the easier ones
Still I feel like the game could have done something to make you play it again, Mario and Kirbi games have NG+, most arcade games give ratings to levels and combos so that you can try to beat them. I admit it wouldn't work very well in a Metroidvania. >You dont know HK story if you think its the same as bloodborne
I thought the Radiance was something like the Moon Presence since it's the cause of the infection and the hollow knight is your predecessor who failed etc... I didn't really care about the Pale King lore but that's on me >How? Fromsoft does the same thing, in fact this game is much less cryptic than elden ring or bloodborne
I know, but they are also bigger and more complex. This game didn't need to be so obscure. >This is just you rambling
I know lol I didn't know how to explain it. To me the style doesn't fit the themes, but it's about personal opinion like everything else I said. >This one is also true but from and metroid do the same shit, only castlevania has actual music
finally someone admits it >In conclusion you didnt play the game, if you did you would complain about actual shit desing choices in the game instead of projecting your awful taste
No shit, i didn't want to complain about the same things that even it's fans know about, I wanted to discuss aspects that are often ignored.
I love how every post is >list of things I personally don't like
and then ends up with the assumptions that people who like it must be zoomers/casuals/morons
Yes they are things I personalli didn't like, so what?
1 year ago
Anonymous
>Still I feel like the game could have done something to make you play it again, Mario and Kirbi games have NG+
I'd much rather have a superboss or an optional area instead of a NG+
>the pogo attack gives the combat and platforming much more depth than other metroidvanias
Jesus fricking christ you morons are obnoxious. YOU HAVE NEVER PLAYED ANY OTHER METROIDVANIAS if you believe the dumb shit you say. >muh pogo attack
Not a new invention. Play Ducktales on NES once and have your zoomer mind blown.
1 year ago
Anonymous
I never said it was inved by HK you fricking brainlet
1 year ago
Anonymous
You act like it's impressive. It is absolutely not. It is basic as frick.
>the music is forgettable and there is no variety, every song is sad and slow
I don't get people who say this. The OST is top tier at conveying actually distinct tones for the areas. Far from just sad tracks. My favourite tracks are greenpath and fungal wastes, neither which are sad by any means.
>I don't get people who say this
Well you should know that musical tastes vary a lot between people. Btw my favourites were city of tears and the crystal mountain one, which were quite sad.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Sure, but I wouldn't say it lacks variety, since it doesn't.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Sorry I was only talking about the music being "forgettable", I don't know why I didn't read the rest. Well yes there is some variety but to me the songs that weren't sad and slow, except greenpath, weren't very good.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Then it ends up being a matter of taste, which means you're music taste a shit :^)
>there is no variety among the areas
This one is repeated often even by "reasonable" people but I can't 100% agree with it. Maybe one could say there isn't a STRONG enough variety, with for example things like the tileset being the same all the time, and platform arrangement being kinda similar with floating blocks everywhere.
But the areas do have a decent amount of variety. King's Edge is very open and vertical, making you take care not to fall down and reset the area. Deepnest is all corridors that loop around each other, and you have to find the path while monsters come out of the ground and centipedes pass through. Forgotten Crossroads and Greenpath are pretty similar for being #1 and #2 you visit, but Greenpath is more expansive and has stuff like the acid and the monsters you pogo off to cross it. Crystal Cave has multiple gimmicks that no other area uses. City of Tears has the elevators and is probably the most varied zone in terms of layout, it even has two sub-zones and multiple entrances.
Maybe it's not to the extent that you're playing a different game in every zone, and there are some repeats (mushroom -> greenpath, sewers -> deepnest although they do have their differences) but I don't think the "no variety" argument is entirely applicable.
>OH EM GEE is that a heccin cute small featureless minimalist naive blank faced creature in a busy as shit ugly noisy overwrought unreadable hostile aggressive dark world >HE'S JUST LIKE ME FRFRFR THIS IS HOW I FEEL WHEN I GO OUTSIDE THIS IS WHAT THE WORLD FEELS LIKE TO ME
Letting zoomers use internet before they were aware of themselves was a mistake
That is absolutely true.
It doesn't look anything like Hollow Knight though.
1 year ago
Anonymous
We've already established that the height of the Flash range is above Hollow Knight which means it could've realistically been a Flash game
1 year ago
Anonymous
Anon, OP isn't saying "Hollow Knight looks like it could have feasibly maybe been a flash game", because that wouldn't even be an insult or a worthwhile comment to make. As you say, Machinarium is a flash game, and it looks drop dead gorgeous. OP is saying that Hollow Knight looks like it IS a flash game. OP believes there's a specific flash game style which Hollow Knight looks like.
1 year ago
Anonymous
It looks like Alien Hominid with busy "babby's first Photoshop" deviantArt backgrounds
not that anon but lanterns cost money and effort to keep lit. most people aren't going to dangle them off a cliff so the birds living on the ledge under their house can see at night. debatably every face of that building would've been a better choice for the lanterns actually illuminating a place where people walk.. which might be important on sketchy paths along the top of the mountain.
Lets you know the place is still open before you treck up there would be my guess. Alternatively would be used as some kind of warning / messaging system.
As a zoomer I've never been able to finish Super Metroid because it simply isn't as fun as HK. I probably should some day and it was pretty cool, just not miles above Hollow Knight.
>Zoomers think calling something a "Flash game" is an insult
I feel so bad for your generation
It's a good insult. Stupidly reductive, has a seed of truth in it and pisses you the frick off.
OP only mentioned it once yet it has 32 matches. It bore fruit so it is a good insult.
>still pretending "flash game" is an insult
You're half right but it's less an insult and more a backhanded compliment. Like complimenting in an aggressive tone, it elicits confusion more than seethe. But you tried, 6/10 analysis.
The game is a masterpiece but it has one of the worst fanbases in gaming. I wonder what the concentration of troons and homosexuals is in the HK fanbase compared to the general population.
People like to say Chrono Trigger is the most overhyped game ever, and it certainly is overhyped, but not nearly as much as this game is.
I played this expecting a life changing experience and the greatest "metroidvania" ever and all I got was a decent game at best, but nothing special. What a ripoff.
Only if you paid full price, which is stupid in this day and age. At like, 10-15 dollars it's worth it. For the personality if nothing else. It has real personality.
I've never seen anyone call HK life-changing. It's just a good game. There are people that consider it the best Metroidvania, and I'm not one of those people but I'm also not that far off.
>t. zoomie who never played flash games growing up
I'm not even the biggest fan of this game but to say it looks like a "flash game" just exposes you as a fricking moron
>it looks like a cheap flash game you'd play in a web browser.
this is because you associate the style with it. it has nothing to do with quality and "looking like a flashgame" isnt a bad thing whatsoever
>game gets popular >Gankertards become massively insecure about it
Next you're going to pretend that this site always hated Undertale and totally wasn't in love with the 2013 demo.
I don't care about Undertale. Never played it, probably never will.
I bought Hollow Knight because some anons on Ganker convinced me it's great. Not just Ganker, some of my ''online'' friends as well. The game is shit. >30 hours long Metroidvania
is not fun. And don't start again with >i-i-it's 30 hours gameplay for only 15 eurodollars, dude!
The gameplay isn't that good either. It's part of the zoomer wave along with dark souls where zoomers think cheap quarter extraction mechanics from 80s arcade games are what makes a game "good".
>''Hollow Knight is one of the best metroidvanias, guys! The best! There are no games like this! It is sooooo preeeetty!'' >Gleamlight comes out >''Reeeeeeeeee!''
You don't get it, anon. I hate both games.
But since Gleamlight has no fans, I hate only HK fanbase.
Frick Hollow Knight, frick Gleamlight, frick CrossCode, frick Dark Souls 3, frick Path of Exile and Diablo 2 fans, and most of all, frick you Hollow Knight fans.
Isn’t this game a crappy chink knockoff? I’ve got no problems with a game wearing its influence on its sleeve but I’m pretty sure the bad reviews are because it’s actually not fun to play.
If you want a game that just straight up lifts whole areas from HK but is also not shit, try Haiku the Robot.
nah I used to think that too but after revisiting it recently SOTN is way, way better. and I think SOTN's only the second best game mentioned in this thread
I hate HollowKnight because its a boring and uninspired dodge roll + attack game but this is a moronic take. Probably 50% of my favorite games from the last few years look like flash games and the other 50% look like they were made before the year 2007. It is sad to see people hate on indie because they haven't seen any indie games besides the biggest memes. Indies are 100x better than anything coming out from AAA devs and its just getting better. Every single year since 2018 indie games have seen an exponential increase in average quality and games released. easily 75% of all indie games ever released have come out since 2019 yet the vast majority have never been seen. Favorites this year for me are
RollerDrome
Gedonia
Synthetik 1
A Violent Revalry
Sail Forth
End of Dyeus
I could make this list 50 games long but you get the point. Also the webm posted here is a test. If you hate on the game because the graphics look bad you fail.
Hollow Knight is becoming the new Dark Souls in terms of how insufferable and naive its underage evangelist fanbase is. The Rick and Marty of video games.
Reminder that you do not have to prove anything to a bunch of mentally ill anonymous, the game is already a success and there is nothing they can do about it except for cope posting
>Reminder that you do not have to prove anything to a bunch of mentally ill anonymous, the game is already a success and there is nothing they can do about it except for cope posting
Said the mentally ill anon in his cope post
Hollow Knight plays fine and looks fine.
Its problem is that its gameplay is very simple and interesting enough to carry a very short game, like the ones they had in the NES age where a perfect player can beat them in like three or four hours (first playthrough).
But it's not three or four hours, it's instead thirty or forty hours.
I guess people who just want to waste time doing the same things over and over feel good about it, like a platforming version of those forklift simulators, but for me it's unbearable after a certain point.
I haven't looked at Silksong at all, but those frickers NEED to make it smaller and put some meat on its bones.
>NEED to make it smaller
no they don't. if you want a short game then play something else. Some of people enjoy hk the way it is and want more of it, so a longer game is welcome
that would be cool. I expected corruption to spread to other areas if I spent too much time dawddling/tackle bosses in certain order or any other triggers, but it never did. Guess that sort of interactivity would be hard to implement for a small team
I thought it was a fun play on the map mechanic by making the existing one obselete by blocking some of the previous paths. Having to think up a new route was peak exploration gameplay in my opinion. Just imagine going up, thinking what next and then finding out that to get back down you need to discard most of your previous route knowledge.
Probably just a silly dream however. I just hope some game does this at some point.
Game is varied enough with area gimmicks and bossfights that it never feel like its combat is too simple, if anything HK feels more like the gift that keeps on giving rather than a game that drags out for way too long without offering anything new.
>Game is varied enough
No it's really really really fricking not. I got bored of its combat in like 30 minutes and it never really added anything substantial to it. >if anything HK feels more like the gift that keeps on giving rather than a game that drags out for way too long without offering anything new.
You play a lot of forklift simulators huh? What's the hottest one?
>its gameplay is very simple and interesting enough to carry a very short game
Idk man, the bosses in the Pantheons are interesting enough that I practiced them for dozens of hours. I've beaten pretty much everything there is to beat so I probably won't ever do a real playthrough again but it gave me 150 hours of fun.
I don't like them and i tell everyone about how I don't like them at any opportunity. People get annoyed at me because they're so autistic, it's unbelievable!
Combative confidence in incorrect information, weird obsessiveness to the point they bring the game up in unrelated conversation for years, bizarre need to tie their self worth to whether people like a video game and the resulting rage outbursts when they encounter someone who doesn't, etc. They're just unpleasant and unintelligent people who can't seem to form coherent sentences without memes and tiktok pidgin, and they make the board worse. It's unfortunate, because like Dark Souls, the game itself is decent, if not great, but there's so many people around it that behave like foot fetishists or hentai enthusiasts that the game gets tarred and feathered by association.
>bizarre need to tie their self worth to whether people like a video game and the resulting rage outbursts when they encounter someone who doesn't
You can see the truth of this immediately.
Nah Dark Souls is shite, I can't believe homies gassed up this mediocrity for over a decade to the point that even its creator is ready to move on.
nah I used to think that too but after revisiting it recently SOTN is way, way better. and I think SOTN's only the second best game mentioned in this thread
I did the opposite and had the opposite reaction. SotN just falls through the floor in quality once Inverted Castle hits. Love me some Finale Toccata though that's a good ass song.
Remember that there's a sizeable chunk of easily manipulated idiots who bought the game because they saw their buddies on Ganker saying it was great and now they're disappointed because their buddies on Ganker LIED to them.
They aren't very good at forming their own opinions so they genuinely think that people having different opinions than them must be some sort of shill conspiracy rather than just...a normal part of life.
It was a birthday gift. I don't like HK at all but there are things it does well enough that I look forward to Silksong hoping for improvements.
>What is it about this game that makes people seethe so much?
Counterreaction to the fans screaming it's the best metroidvania game ever made, when it's mid af and most people quit it midway through because it's boring.
NTA, but I'm 35, and yes, it feels like a flash game. It reminds me of when Xbox live arcade was first a thing, and there was a sudden glut of newgrounds style flash ports.
Remember that there's a sizeable chunk of easily manipulated idiots who bought the game because they saw their buddies on Ganker saying it was great and now they're disappointed because their buddies on Ganker LIED to them.
They aren't very good at forming their own opinions so they genuinely think that people having different opinions than them must be some sort of shill conspiracy rather than just...a normal part of life.
Hollow Knight has almost the exact same depth in its system as Castlevania. Not Castlevania: Symphony of the Night, but the first Castlevania from 1986.
You have one weapon with three (3) upgrades that do nothing but increase damage, and one additional trick that you can pick from a few options.
Castlevania 1986 can be beaten in less than one hour easily.
You fogot a tiny detail
The pogo attack in hollow knight is one of the core mechanics of its platforming and combat, that alone with the boss and enemy desing puts Hollow Knight way above castlevania and even Sympony of the Night
i hate to admit it, but i'm a brainlet who didn't know pogo attacks existed until after I finished the game. I did have problems, probably because of it, with some parts though
I genuinely can't tell if you're joking or if you're really so delusional you think one extra attack is a significant enough difference to even mention.
Hollow Knight takes a million fricking years to beat and runs out of interesting things 45 minutes in.
NTA but
After i beat P5 with all bindings on, i was 100% certain HK had more depth to the combat than any other simplistic 2d metroid-like the other anons mentioned. The depth is not exactly necessary, nor does it necessarily come into play for the average player in their first playthrough, but it is there. This isnt because of just the single attack, but primarily due to the enemy design
anon, fancy extra combat moves dont mean much if the enemies remain so simplistic and the gravity/flow isnt very great. this alone makes p5 all bindings feel a lot higher skill ceiling than old metroid-castlevania games, most of which i have played. Ultimately it mostly entirely boils down to the enemy design
Look at Ori 2, for example. That game easily has a core movement system, a core moveset, and abilities that could make the game by far the most complex and in depth 2d-sidescroller combat of all time, with extremely great and precise movement, the ability to combo enemies in very extensive and creative ways. But none of that matters, because that is simply not the game the devs wanted to make, and therefore the bosses are very simple and basic, digestible for a casual crowd and the player moveset isnt specifically timed for moves to flow with eachother.
You and I have wildly different tastes if you don't like Hollow Knight and outright hate Dark Souls 1.
I don't hate DS1, I don't think it's very good but there are absolutely things in it I liked, but the main issues I had were the sluggish start and everything falling to pieces after Anor Londo. That said I don't know how much fun I would have had without the Great Club. Big stick is 100% the way to play that game and it made up for me not being all that engaged by the combat
No, it's a very good point. It illustrates how little content HK has compared to its insane length.
Hollow Knight is TRIPLE the length of Symphony of the Night (seriously, look it up, three fricking times the length) and has maybe 1% of the content of SotN. It is mind-boggling that some people are insane enough to claim that's not a problem.
The comparison made was NES Castlevania, a completely different style of game. Castlevania and Mega Man were simple as is typical of the era but their enemy and level designs accommodated for that to provide an intense challenge that would very likely take many attempts and actual mastery to overcome. Hollow Knight is far too long for sure but it's clearly keeping in mind Metroid, Zelda 2, or Faxanadu insofar as 2D platformers go. After that slap on some superficial Dark Souls shit and boom.
As a zoomer I've never been able to finish Super Metroid because it simply isn't as fun as HK. I probably should some day and it was pretty cool, just not miles above Hollow Knight.
It's a far shorter game so in theory it shouldn't be an issue. Maridia exists though.
>It's a far shorter game so in theory it shouldn't be an issue
Yeah, I've always lost interest about an hour or two in. I still haven't played all that many games when all is considered, there's just so many to play. I'll finish it someday. I do think a lot of people are blinded by nostalgia with Super Metroid. Not to say it's bad or anything but the movement and combat is a lot stiffer than a game like Hollow Knight.
Super Metroid is absolutely put on a pedestal. Zero Mission is much, much better, play that.
Anon you called Dark Souls 1 "shite". You can't turn around and say "ummm ahhhh actually there are good things too!" the moment you face the mildest resistance to your views.
Anyway, I would never call Dark Souls' start "sluggish", wtf. It's a great romp through a classic fantasy setting which still manages to have its own character.
Even things I dislike have positives. I'd consider it maybe a 4/10. It's bad overall but it has some merit. I express myself in hyperbole but there is nuance here.
Anon you called Dark Souls 1 "shite". You can't turn around and say "ummm ahhhh actually there are good things too!" the moment you face the mildest resistance to your views.
Anyway, I would never call Dark Souls' start "sluggish", wtf. It's a great romp through a classic fantasy setting which still manages to have its own character.
No, it's a very good point. It illustrates how little content HK has compared to its insane length.
Hollow Knight is TRIPLE the length of Symphony of the Night (seriously, look it up, three fricking times the length) and has maybe 1% of the content of SotN. It is mind-boggling that some people are insane enough to claim that's not a problem.
Your mistake is assuming combat is the sum total of depth. Hollow Knight is about exploration first and foremost. Combat is there to help curate the tone of each area, not to be the thing you focus on.
The combat is actually pretty good, but it doesn't really have enough depth to merit repeat playthroughs, especially when I can fight every boss in the DLC
Haha you're old enough to know what flash is and have strong feelings about it, how about you shut the frick up old homosexual a rocking chair would suit you more
>old men feel personally attacked by new thing
Tale as old as time. They will keep spouting someshit about Super Metroid like a broken record until the day they die, and they will be convinced they're right.
>children feel like their limited experience of a thing is the sum total of the thing
Tale as old as time. They will keep spouting someshit about Hollow Knight like a broken record until the day they die, and they will be convinced they're right.
There are insurmountable amounts of hate within you
I'm 36 and I couldn't care less about old games, they're not the gold standard and their only redeeming factor is nostalgia.
Metroidvanias have evolved so much since super metroid and sotn, they're history and well worth mentioning for how they spawned better games and for outdated they are, that's all.
HK is fricking great, and so are La Mulana, ESA, Rain World (it barely qualifies but people bring up Ori all the time which is not only just alright but also barely a metroidvania).
>but people bring up Ori all the time
The ones who bring up Ori 1 are straight up wrong because it's in NO way a metridvania. Ori 2 is a proper one though.
>children feel like their limited experience of a thing is the sum total of the thing
Tale as old as time. They will keep spouting someshit about Hollow Knight like a broken record until the day they die, and they will be convinced they're right.
>starts ranting about funko pops out of the blue
No, I don't own any funko pops. You bring that up because you're unable to argue a point on its own merits, and so anyone who disagrees with you about anything must be turned into a straw man representation of anyone who has ever disagreed with you about anything. This is childish behavior, and a consequence of the childish way you've invested so much of your self worth into the popular acceptance of a mediocre video game.
The idea behind a variable swap is to try and get across to you that what you're saying is lazy, dismissive, and hollow. Unfortunately, even provided with a clear example, you're not intelligent enough or mature enough to understand. "Anyone who likes (game I don't like) is (pejorative), so take that you (pejorative)!" is what flies for a meaningful statement when you're 9. It's not something anybody old enough to post here should be doing.
Hollow Knight isn't even the best metroidvania indie flashlike. It really seems to only have a following among the sort of zoomer who thinks playing "hard" games is a personality.
It is? That hasn't been mentioned even once in this thread.
I think you're reaching a little bit.
The only hard part is Godhome and that's because it's a boss rush but none of the bosses are considered hard individually except maybe Radiance but mostly because he comes after the HK in the base game and that makes it more stressful.
I don't think it looks bad at all but I don't like how every enviroment looks so same-y minus a different color fog-tint. It's the one thing that's kinda keeping me from playing it, it doesn't look all that enticing to explore compared to something like Symphony of the Night where every single area has a unique feel and purpose to it with unique tilesets etc.
>it doesn't look all that enticing to explore
you're right. Not only are the environments boring and samey but you're never going to find anything interesting, it has some of the worst loot in the genre.
>it has some of the worst loot in the genre
It actually has some of the best loot in the entire genre, just because you can find absolutely broken stuff in castlevania it doesnt mean that the game is better
Just don’t think it’s anywhere near a masterpiece like so many people say it is. I’ve beaten it and all the dlc, and i did it all just to see what the fuss was about. I didn’t really enjoy myself. It’s like the game is anti-fun a lot of the time. The combat and world exploring are two of the most essential elements in its gameplay, but it all just feels like such a drag. Room to room combat takes so much longer than it feels like it needs to, and it’s slowed down by the god awful healing time with every stray hit you take. Nearly every room that doesn’t have some kind of set piece in it, is just a copy paste “ biome “ room with the same enemies from that biome over and over again, and boring platforming. I think I find the platforming boring mainly due to a lack of weight on your character. Just feels unsatisfying to move to me. The game’s bosses and set pieces are great, but the main bulk (99% of the other stuff ) just feels so bogged down by tedium, annoying empty worlds and unsatisfying combat / platforming.
I'm not new to difficult games. I enjoy them. Enter the gungeon, Cuphead, Furi, Dark souls, Sekiro, Boshy etc. These are all games I've played, haven't finished ETG or Boshy though. And like in every game, not just the ones mentioned above, you're usually put in scenarios where bosses have much more health than you do and hit harder than you do. And because you're in such a disadvantaged position, the game then tries to level the playing field by giving you the ability to either dodge or deflect your enemies attacks. Its what makes the game difficult, but fair.
Hollow Knight is not a fair game. Boss attacks are poorly telegraphed, giving the player no time to react at all. That, coupled with bad RNG leaves you in situations where you're forced to take damage. It leave the player feeling like when they do finally beat the boss, that they just got lucky instead of through skill.
Now this isnt every boss obviously. I also get that there are people who do no hit any% runs. And that's obviously an achievement on its own, but even they skip certain bosses and use very specific charms that someone on their first playthrough might not know about.
But overall, its a shame. I think it does so many things right, music, atmosphere, storytelling, exploration etc, and with this game receiving such a huge amount of praise, I really wanted to enjoy it. But some of the boss fights just ruin the experience for me. Basically, would not recommend.
Yeah I don't get it either.
When it comes to bosses HK feels like one of the more polished games, there's no RNG or constant barrage of attacks that you're forced to eat up, it's all very fair and readable.
I'm absolutely abysmal at platformers and beat Hollow Knight (the main bulk of it anyway, I'm not autistic enough for Godhome) just fine, sounds like you just suck.
Zote is probably the only boss that's 'unfair', but he's basically a joke boss anyway
They also made Blaster Master Zero, two Bloodstained games, they have a new game next month, etc. >Weebslop
Bro they made bishonen Zero. Also Gunvolt is more of a scoring game and I do think it's kinda jank but Copen feels a lot better to play as.
the real tragedy of this game is that its actually good and worth playing
the problem is that putting a boss rush mode at the end, instead of telling a complete story, is very unsatisfying
if you enjoyed hollow knight, I recommend playing MegamanX 1 2 and 3, and then stop there. Its the same gameplay, with better environments and secrets, but doesn't leave you feeling 'hollow' at the end.
Hollow Knight is a really good 8/10 game that gets ruined by autists spending years of their life trying to push it as the second coming, and it can't live up to that. It's a nice little indie game, not perfect, not bad.
the real tragedy of this game is that its actually good and worth playing
the problem is that putting a boss rush mode at the end, instead of telling a complete story, is very unsatisfying
if you enjoyed hollow knight, I recommend playing MegamanX 1 2 and 3, and then stop there. Its the same gameplay, with better environments and secrets, but doesn't leave you feeling 'hollow' at the end.
I really enjoyed the boss rush tbh. I don't really care about story in games, atmosphere matters more to me.
They absolutely do. You can't honestly enjoy a game when you're fully aware that people you hate are also playing it. If you favorite game has trannies among its fans, it'll inevitably sour the game for you.
>You can't honestly enjoy a game when you're fully aware that people you hate are also playing it. If you favorite game has trannies among its fans, it'll inevitably sour the game for you.
This is the most autistic think I've ever read, and I've been on this site a while
>tfw as a kid only played x4, x5, x6 >loved them >internet comes out, check what people say >apparently they're all shit and only the previous ones were good
i refuse to believe
It just bored me to tears. Exploration wasn't particularly fun and the game tosses almost nothing but the most lame upgrades at you in the first several hours, with 1 exception.
not him but rabi ribi has a completely different approach to combat so i dunno what's the point of comparing. hk is about fluidity and how you can simultaneously dodge attacks based on telegraphs while hitting the boss back, getting 'inside' their pattern in a way. rabi ribi has static combos and static dodge phases, you have to get good at each separately.
i think rabi ribi ends up being more intense on the proper difficulties (hard and above, especially if you do no pots/no buffs) but it isn't as fast-paced as hk and many people would mark that as an objectively bad thing (i don't).
1 year ago
Anonymous
>so i dunno what's the point of comparing
People don't compare things that are identical anon. The entire point of comparison is to highlight the differences.
1 year ago
Anonymous
but there's also no point to comparing things that are wholly dissimilar. what has better combat, pokemon or half-life? question doesn't compute.
now i'm not gonna say rabi ribi and hk are THAT different from each other, but if we want to make a judgement about which one 'has better combat' then i say there are no real reference points to start with. most other metroidvanias and action platformers can be compared much more directly with hk since their dodge/attack dynamic is essentially identical, but rabi ribi is different (and i can't think of that many games that do what rabi ribi does)
1 year ago
Anonymous
>what has better combat, pokemon or half-life?
Half-life. Pokemon Combat is turn based, so even ignoring that it's essentially level based and a glorified rock/paper/scissors, it's inferior to Half-Life.
>question doesn't compute
I think you need to download more RAM then or something, buddy.
1 year ago
Anonymous
why is turn-based objectively inferior? see that's where i say you have no reference point. you're just blatantly dropping your opinion, which anyone can do.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>why is turn-based objectively inferior?
It by definition has less elements than real time making it less complex. Having the leeway to wait for your opponent to move before you can do anything is simplistic, and less immersive.
There ARE turn based games that are more complex as a whole than some real time games, for an extreme example we have Civilization vs flappy bird, but I'm only comparing the elements of real time VS turn based here. And even if Pokemon combat WASN'T turn based, it would still suck.
>you're just blatantly dropping your opinion
Damn dude, what tipped you off? That I was making a post lmao? The fact is that my opinion has more depth to it than what just anybody can do.
>letting the orbs chase you in P4 instead of pogoing on her head so they despawn when they move offscreen
The only trick is you’re also offscreen so you need to keep mental track of your own position and be ready to dash when she teleports.
>floaty, with bad combat
This is the lamest non-critique I've ever seen on here. It's like you can't find anything to fault the game for but you want to find fault with it anyways, so you just make up some vague nonsense about how it "feels" """floaty""" and then you claim the combat is "bad" without providing any context or argument.
Flash games don't look this good. And besides, those illustrations were drawn at a pretty high resolution, which takes up a lot of disk space. Not at all ideal for storing on a web server.
Not like the base game should ride on difficulty. It's not the point. I'm sure Silksong will have some bullshit post-game stuff, maybe not on release but still
You literally couldn't make this game in flash because it uses layers to achieve a parallax effect. The art direction is brilliant. The usage of color is wonderfully composed; you instantly know where you are just by the color palette. The blending of hand-drawn animation with procedural effects is really tastefully done. The environments are shockingly detailed and subtly tell an entire story. The characters/enemies are bold and simple with lower-frame animation to help them stand out from the scenery. I do kind of get where OP is coming from, because lots of cheap games look very similar in a few still images so I disregarded it as first too. But in-motion, fullscreen it becomes very evident that it's a cut above.
There was a time where I thought I was becoming disillusioned with games because I'd try these hyped products and they wouldn't hold up. Played Hollow Knight a couple years ago, started slow but once I got the wall grab and the map opened up I was blown away. The combat/movement felt tight, the upgrades/unlocks felt meaningful, the music tracks complemented everything exactly the way they needed to, and the exploration... Man, I don't think a game has been able to so consistently pull me into hours-long detours since Skyrim. For a map so large, it has a lot of thought put into the world design.
>Pretty sure the game literally started off as a flash game.
And? That speaks to their artistic vision if anything. Tons of software projects out there use fancy tooling for no other reason than "that's was serious developers use". In my own life, I was told to get a service running on Kubernetes because that's the hot buzzword in my line of work. After studying the application, it became obvious that the program could (and should) be optimized to run on a single machine nullifying Kubernetes's primary upside. What this tells me is Team Cherry were focused on the game design not showing off their tech, and only changed tooling when they knew there were specific things they wanted out of it.
The art direction is very good. That's probably the defining trait of any indie game that gets noticed. Dollars to donuts it's because the visual design grabbed people.
Just brought it yesterday.
So far really fun and the game has gorgeous art.
I love when games have an environment that makes sense for their specific world.
>it looks like a cheap flash game you'd play in a web browser
definitely not. Flash games were waaaaaaaayy cheaper looking you have no idea what you are talking about. HK has many layers of 2D art to create amazing and immersive visuals. It is not flash art, it is pure animation kino
>”No way I can beat the Radiance but I’ll give it a few tries at least.” >”Okay Nightmare King is way too hard but I can see if I can at least get a little further in.” >”Damn Trial of the Fool is no joke but I think I was pretty close there I just have to not be stupid on that one part.” >”Maybe I’ll do a couple of the easy Pantheons but I’m definitely not getting past four.” >”Okay so even though I’ve done everything else P5 is insane I will for sure never beat this but I know there’s some cool new bosses and I might as well at least check it out.” >”Well damn I guess I got gud.”
You've never played a flash game if you think hollow knight looks anything like one. Or you've never played hollow knight and are just looking at screenshots. Give me the name of a flash game that has over 25 layers of parallax
Wrong board
I'm from Ganker and I like Hollow Knight.
soul
bump
Share 47 flash games that look like that and play like that.
Also YWNBAW
It doesn't compare to other indie games like Ori
>Ori
>indie
True, hollow knight is much better
Ori is fricking dogshit lmao, there isn't even a directional attack.
>omg no [arbitrary feature]
Why would it even matter? Hollow Knight doesn't even have online multiplayer wow what a shit game
And Ori doesnt have a taunt button
Can you even call that a game?
>arbitrary feature
>directional attack
lol, the game has tons of combat that just boils down to get close to them and spam the attack button, which isn't the case for just about ALL metroidvanias.
I've played Super Mario World, the platforming in that game makes Ori's lame platforming look utterly pedestrian.
The platforming is god tier tho, and the bash mechanic is one of the best mechanics I have ever seen in any metroidvania
ori 2 literally has a directional attack you moron
And were we talking about Ori 2? Anon?
>moron
Not even literate and calling people morons lol.
ori is ugly, and therefore i'll never play it.
>Ori is ugly
Ori is literally the best looking game ever made
Are you blind?
Shades of purple and blue really do it for you huh?
>Shades of purple and- AIIIIIEEEE MY NARRATIVE
No! A nitpicked example! How will I ever recover?
please share some flash games that look like this
Looks like shart
it doesn't, but the artistry of the game is overhyped. how many actually striking screens are in ? city of tears fountain and the cave trial top row middle column are the only two that inspire any kind of thoughts of "that looks nice"
its more about the atmosphere
the ambient sounds and music play a big part
get good lol
"Good" graphics don't make up for the dogshit gameplay and shitty mechanics, chud.
Can you be more specific?
He means the game is a glorified bullet hell game. As in it doesn't have a real combat system where enemies have actual attack animations with different patterns you need to learn.
But they do? Are you speaking from experience?
>glorified bullet hell
What the hell am I reading?
>glorified bullet hell game
The most bullets you dodge at once is maybe three from random mobs that die in one hit. What is wrong with Hollow Knight disablers?
Holy shit how misinformed can you be? That's gotta be it, because I refuse to believe someone is this much of an imbecile.
>different patterns you need to learn
Souls tryhards are fricking clueless.
Haven't played in years but here's what I remember off the top of my head:
>can't warp between benches cause muh stag station sidequest bullshit
>except stag stations are so poorly placed that it's often quicker to run from one end of the map to the other which causes needless backtracking in the second half of the game
>combat never progresses beyond mash X forever to win; to combos or parrying or light/heavy attack
>money becomes meaningless too early
>no primary weapon beyond the nail
>Deepnest is literally worse than Blighttown
>forced to waste a charm slot just to see your character on the map
>filling in the map is an unnecessary three step process (buy map from spider, wander around, sit on bench to update) instead of being streamlined into one step like every other game ever made
>annoying screen freeze when taking damage
Metroidlikes are not for you.
The money complaint was totally valid on release though, although they later fixed it.
Blighttown is one of the best areas of Dark Souls wtf
>Blighttown is one of the best areas of Dark Souls wtf
NTA but the shittiest area of first game was not Blighttown, or Lost Izalith. It was fricking New Londo Ruins.
The upper bit when the water is high? Frick no, that shit was great. When you've drained the water? Yeah it was kinda underwhelming.
New Londo Ruins is great, it's the best of the 4 paths in the second half
Oh frick off. Symphony of the Night and Super Metroid came out 20+ years prior to Hollow Knight and are better in literally every way. Ori 1 & 2 outclass Hollow Knight as well. Metroid Dread is one of the only games I've 100%. Bloodstained had its problems but was a lot of fun to break in half. Even Blasphemous was less of a chore to play and I found it a step below the others.
Ori was too dull for me to bother playing more than a couple of hours. Maybe it gets good, but if it does, it's awfully paced. More likely it doesn't get good.
If you don't like being unable to fast travel and having to actually know your area instead of relying on maps then it really doesn't seem like the genre is for you.
Oh, and you seem fixated on the combat for some reason. In a metroidlike? You sound like one of those people who play Souls games for the bosses.
Saying "the genre isn't for you" doesn't actually address any of the game's problems, of which there are many. My only hope is the developers learn from their mistakes with the sequel but my guess is for every problem they fix they will ruin something else.
But they're not problems. I love how you can't rely on a map constantly. I love that you don't have the ability to fast travel everywhere and that the world is easy and fun to traverse manually. Those are things I like about the game, and I don't want casuals removing them in the name of accessibility.
Metroidlikes don't need complex combat because it's not what you're focused on. They can have them, sure, but it's not bad if they don't have them.
Cool. I sunk 10 hours into HK before I gave up on it ever getting better. That is complete fricking unacceptable for a Metroidvania of all genres. It has the worst pacing I've ever seen from a game of its type.
>Symphony of the Night and Super Metroid came out 20+ years prior to Hollow Knight and are better in literally every way.
No they arent at all, HK has much better combat, platforming, bosses, story/lore and exploration, the only thing castlevania does betters is the music and super metroid is good but HK is still a better game, I cant belive people defend Metroid when the only reward you get for exploring is more missiles and the ocasional energy tank
>HK has much better combat
No
>platforming
No
>bosses
Yes, but the boring combat ruins it.
>story/lore
No
>exploration
Frick no.
k buddy, stay alone with your wrong opinion.
I don't even like SotN and I feel like SM is dragged down from being the apex of the genre by mediocre combat. HK is just shit.
>HK
>better exploration than fricking Super Metroid
I pray this is bait, because I don't know what level of sycophant you have to be on to believe it.
>launch a super bomb on this screen to break a block that looks like every other block ever to find a health tank
Very sugoi exploration
I'm sorry that your intuition is that damaged from decades of eating junk food.
The majority of Ganker is underage and has never played most of the games they talk about
this is actually true, since anyone unironically praising SotM and SM has clearly never played those games
Do you not have enough self esteem to feel shame when you write these ridiculous reddit switcheroo posts? Do you need attention from strangers on a website that badly?
>I cant belive people defend Metroid when the only reward you get for exploring is more missiles and the ocasional energy tank
Compared to geo that barely matters, Not-Pieces-of-Heart from Zelda that don't do anything until you get enough of them, or charms, only a few of which actually make a real difference, SM rewards you far more for exploration and it rewards you faster.
Lets see
SM rewards from exploring:
>HP upgrades, ammo upgrades
HK rewards for exploring:
>HP upgrades, Damage upgrades, mana upgrades, upgrades for your spells, new charged attacks for your nail, money, charms, optional areas, optional bosses, grubs (wich give you various rewards depending on the amount that you already have collected), a map that leads you to the grubs you missed, lore, a final platforming challenge
Btw the charms are always useful, even if you are not going to use them they allow you buy more notches, and once you have them all you unlock an upgrade that aplies to all benches
No. Go frick yourself if you're going to be disingenuous like that.
That's a concession if I ever saw one
You ignored the upgrades you actually got in SM. It's not a concession, it's calling you out on being a homosexual.
That anon isnt me
You dont get optional upgrades in SM for exploring (besides the health and ammo), if I counted those then I would also have to expand the rewards you get in HK for exploring
Yes you do, there are so many completely optional upgrades in SM that you can complete the game without and that's not counting the ones that are only barely not mandatory like the Varia or Gravity Suit.
>I-It doesnt count!
Concession acepted
>play HK, hyped for it because it's supposedly a good Metroidvania
>bored the entire time until I finally drop it, no part of it is good
>wonder if I've grown out of Metroidvanias
>play Dawn of Sorrow to test that
>It's fun right away and I have enough fun with it to replay it again immediately after I finish it
Disingenuous: the post
Go frick yourself. Metroidvanias do not have a single shape they must always take.
If you're fixated on complex moment-to-moment combat and hate exploration then I think it's fair to say that games which focus on exploration and don't care about complex moment-to-moment combat might not be for you, angry-kun.
There are plenty of Metroidvanias with complex combat. HK's problem is that that combat is shitty HP bloated nonsense and its exploration is unfun at the same time.
>HK's problem is that that combat is shitty HP bloated nonsense
unironic skill issue
Nope.
Well, the combat stays mostly the same but the enemies and bosses are plentiful and vary a lot, not two encounters really play the same. I don't know many people who said they were bored of the combat, even fully knowing that the nail was mostly all you had because the game is varied enough that it doesn't feel boring.
The rest are just very personal nitpicks, most of which made it a better game for me, a worse blighttown is everything that I ever wanted in a game and I don't think Deepnest even comes close to that in the first place.
>backtracking
You have stagways, shortcuts, trams, and a fricking Dreamgate
>combat
a proper parrying mechanic could be nice, I agree. Charge attacks exist and become viable at the cost of one notch
>money
yeah, the game provides you with too much money and no real way to spend it
>one weapon
personal preference, just like ds / sekiro. magic is a viable build
>deepnest
there's nothing difficult or annoying about it. Literally an early game location and you get the map for it right away. skill issue
>compass
one notch is nothing
>map
skill issue
>screen freeze
?
>Symphony of the Night and Super Metroid
I'm glad this meme still exists because it immediately outs you as a moron trying very hard to fit in
it kinda sounds like you just suck at video games bud
I wish I sucked at videogames. They become much more fun that way.
>i can't just fricking teleport anywhere i want to
do homies really
literally what game just lets you instantaneously go anywhere you want to
Any fromsoft game after DS1
their only point of reference is skyrim
I don't get what's so special about that game
>there is no innovation in the gameplay (same player character and memory-based damage sponge bosses as every other 2D game);
>the only post-game challenge they could think of is a permadeath mode;
>the story is Bloodborne but boring and simple, with pointless depressing atmosphere in every area of the game because that was cool at the time;
>it's presented in a cryptic and pretentious way, as if they wanted to force you to think that this game is deep and different than others.
>Same thing for the art direction (for example, the contrast between the cute drawings and the sad plot confuses the dumber players by lowering their expectations, so they find more impactful the otherwise stupid story);
>the infection is just another excuse to make everyone attack you because they couldn't come up with a decent antagonist;
>there is no variety among the areas, every zone is the same cave with a different color palette;
>the music is forgettable and there is no variety, every song is sad and slow;
>the sound design is boring, the voices of the npcs and bosses are annoying.
The target audience of this game are those people that have been playing AAA PlayStation games for so long that they forgot how the good 2D games actually look like.
I love how every post is
>list of things I personally don't like
and then ends up with the assumptions that people who like it must be zoomers/casuals/morons
>there is no innovation in the gameplay (same player character and memory-based damage sponge bosses as every other 2D game);
The bosses in HK are much better than anything on Metroid or Castlevania, and while its true that Hollow Knight doesnt innovate that much, the pogo attack gives the combat and platforming much more depth than other metroidvanias
>the only post-game challenge they could think of is a permadeath mode;
You didnt play the game, there is an entire optional area that serves as a final platforming challenge and there is like 4 super bosses, there is also a boss rush with new bosses and harder versions of some of the easier ones
>the story is Bloodborne but boring and simple, with pointless depressing atmosphere in every area of the game because that was cool at the time;
You dont know HK story if you think its the same as bloodborne, they only thing in common with BB is that there is an infection, the world is also much less depressing than the usual stuff that you see in fromsoft games where everything is apocalyptic
>it's presented in a cryptic and pretentious way, as if they wanted to force you to think that this game is deep and different than others.
How? Fromsoft does the same thing, in fact this game is much less cryptic than elden ring or bloodborne
>Same thing for the art direction (for example, the contrast between the cute drawings and the sad plot confuses the dumber players by lowering their expectations, so they find more impactful the otherwise stupid story);
This is just you rambling, the art style was chosen because its simplistic not because its cute
>(Cont)
>the infection is just another excuse to make everyone attack you because they couldn't come up with a decent antagonist;
Metroid, fromgames and castlevania do the same shit and I dont see people complaining about it, and the game does have a clear antagonist its not my dault that you didnt play it
>there is no variety among the areas, every zone is the same cave with a different color palette;
This one is true but atleast it has more variety than Metroid, in HK there are some areas with a unique desing like the pala e or the crystal caves
>the music is forgettable and there is no variety, every song is sad and slow;
This one is also true but from and metroid do the same shit, only castlevania has actual music
>the sound design is boring, the voices of the npcs and bosses are annoying.
That is your opinion I find the noc voices funny and so do most people
In conclusion you didnt play the game, if you did you would complain about actual shit desing choices in the game instead of projecting your awful taste
Thank you for making arguments to counter what I said
>You didnt play the game, there is an entire optional area that serves as a final platforming challenge and there is like 4 super bosses, there is also a boss rush with new bosses and harder versions of some of the easier ones
Still I feel like the game could have done something to make you play it again, Mario and Kirbi games have NG+, most arcade games give ratings to levels and combos so that you can try to beat them. I admit it wouldn't work very well in a Metroidvania.
>You dont know HK story if you think its the same as bloodborne
I thought the Radiance was something like the Moon Presence since it's the cause of the infection and the hollow knight is your predecessor who failed etc... I didn't really care about the Pale King lore but that's on me
>How? Fromsoft does the same thing, in fact this game is much less cryptic than elden ring or bloodborne
I know, but they are also bigger and more complex. This game didn't need to be so obscure.
>This is just you rambling
I know lol I didn't know how to explain it. To me the style doesn't fit the themes, but it's about personal opinion like everything else I said.
>This one is also true but from and metroid do the same shit, only castlevania has actual music
finally someone admits it
>In conclusion you didnt play the game, if you did you would complain about actual shit desing choices in the game instead of projecting your awful taste
No shit, i didn't want to complain about the same things that even it's fans know about, I wanted to discuss aspects that are often ignored.
Yes they are things I personalli didn't like, so what?
>Still I feel like the game could have done something to make you play it again, Mario and Kirbi games have NG+
I'd much rather have a superboss or an optional area instead of a NG+
>the pogo attack gives the combat and platforming much more depth than other metroidvanias
Jesus fricking christ you morons are obnoxious. YOU HAVE NEVER PLAYED ANY OTHER METROIDVANIAS if you believe the dumb shit you say.
>muh pogo attack
Not a new invention. Play Ducktales on NES once and have your zoomer mind blown.
I never said it was inved by HK you fricking brainlet
You act like it's impressive. It is absolutely not. It is basic as frick.
>the music is forgettable and there is no variety, every song is sad and slow
I don't get people who say this. The OST is top tier at conveying actually distinct tones for the areas. Far from just sad tracks. My favourite tracks are greenpath and fungal wastes, neither which are sad by any means.
>I don't get people who say this
Well you should know that musical tastes vary a lot between people. Btw my favourites were city of tears and the crystal mountain one, which were quite sad.
Sure, but I wouldn't say it lacks variety, since it doesn't.
Sorry I was only talking about the music being "forgettable", I don't know why I didn't read the rest. Well yes there is some variety but to me the songs that weren't sad and slow, except greenpath, weren't very good.
Then it ends up being a matter of taste, which means you're music taste a shit :^)
>there is no variety among the areas
This one is repeated often even by "reasonable" people but I can't 100% agree with it. Maybe one could say there isn't a STRONG enough variety, with for example things like the tileset being the same all the time, and platform arrangement being kinda similar with floating blocks everywhere.
But the areas do have a decent amount of variety. King's Edge is very open and vertical, making you take care not to fall down and reset the area. Deepnest is all corridors that loop around each other, and you have to find the path while monsters come out of the ground and centipedes pass through. Forgotten Crossroads and Greenpath are pretty similar for being #1 and #2 you visit, but Greenpath is more expansive and has stuff like the acid and the monsters you pogo off to cross it. Crystal Cave has multiple gimmicks that no other area uses. City of Tears has the elevators and is probably the most varied zone in terms of layout, it even has two sub-zones and multiple entrances.
Maybe it's not to the extent that you're playing a different game in every zone, and there are some repeats (mushroom -> greenpath, sewers -> deepnest although they do have their differences) but I don't think the "no variety" argument is entirely applicable.
>the voices of the npcs and bosses are annoying.
holy fricking FILTERED
>it looks like a cheap flash game you'd play in a web browser.
that's how it plays too
looks aside the gameplay also sucks
>OH EM GEE is that a heccin cute small featureless minimalist naive blank faced creature in a busy as shit ugly noisy overwrought unreadable hostile aggressive dark world
>HE'S JUST LIKE ME FRFRFR THIS IS HOW I FEEL WHEN I GO OUTSIDE THIS IS WHAT THE WORLD FEELS LIKE TO ME
Letting zoomers use internet before they were aware of themselves was a mistake
>busy as shit ugly noisy overwrought unreadable hostile aggressive dark world
Color me confused
>looks like a flash game
>looks like a browser game from 2006
How do you counter this as a gamedev?
Make it look actually good
Soul vs Soulless
just looks like a generic gba game
Post one GBA game that looks like that so we can laugh at you
Post one flash game which looks like OP so we can laugh at you
Machinarium looks much better than Hollow Knight
That is absolutely true.
It doesn't look anything like Hollow Knight though.
We've already established that the height of the Flash range is above Hollow Knight which means it could've realistically been a Flash game
Anon, OP isn't saying "Hollow Knight looks like it could have feasibly maybe been a flash game", because that wouldn't even be an insult or a worthwhile comment to make. As you say, Machinarium is a flash game, and it looks drop dead gorgeous. OP is saying that Hollow Knight looks like it IS a flash game. OP believes there's a specific flash game style which Hollow Knight looks like.
It looks like Alien Hominid with busy "babby's first Photoshop" deviantArt backgrounds
No it doesn't
It does
Does not
>pic unrelated
Why are there lanterns hanging on the cliffside of the building? WHAT are they lighting?
lighting so aeroplanes don't crash into it
>WHAT are they lighting?
Themselves? I don't get it. They're lanterns. They look nice. What's the deal?
not that anon but lanterns cost money and effort to keep lit. most people aren't going to dangle them off a cliff so the birds living on the ledge under their house can see at night. debatably every face of that building would've been a better choice for the lanterns actually illuminating a place where people walk.. which might be important on sketchy paths along the top of the mountain.
They take seconds to light and candles are cheap
He should be pointing at the text, not away from it. moronic image.
>2023
>not using the left-handed page layout
Better
Lets you know the place is still open before you treck up there would be my guess. Alternatively would be used as some kind of warning / messaging system.
this looks like shit though
Least disingenuous HKgay
Very generic despite looking good. Lacks a personality.
Literally best selling metroidvania of all time, and that includes both Metroid and Igavanias.
The anal devastation over HK is delicious.
The entire genre is shit and I'm tired of pretending it's not.
Are you in a shit taste competition?
Only Metroid and Castlevanias are good any other metroidvania I've tried playing was sleep inducing.
Metroid Dread has sold 2.9 million
reddit knight sold 3 million
reddit knight $14.99
Metroid dread 60 $
Dread is also not multiplat
>nintengoycattle massively overpay for their shit
We know. Fact remains that more people played HK.
Zoomers only care about new shit, so they overhype the first metroidvania they play.
It's the Breaking Bad effect.
As a zoomer I've never been able to finish Super Metroid because it simply isn't as fun as HK. I probably should some day and it was pretty cool, just not miles above Hollow Knight.
>looks like a cheap flash game
Why do underagies think this is an insult? Flash games were great.
They had fun gameplay for its time but not its looks. The best looking flash games were stickshit for frick's sakes.
It's a good insult. Stupidly reductive, has a seed of truth in it and pisses you the frick off.
OP only mentioned it once yet it has 32 matches. It bore fruit so it is a good insult.
>still pretending "flash game" is an insult
You're half right but it's less an insult and more a backhanded compliment. Like complimenting in an aggressive tone, it elicits confusion more than seethe. But you tried, 6/10 analysis.
Same reason people say 3D games look like PS2 games - they never had one and just kind of assume what it was capable of.
normalgays think every flash game is like the three dogshit ones they played when they were five
You never played a flash game in your life
Ori gay seething
Over the mountains
Over the hills
Insert text here
Frick Hollow Knight shills
>flash game you'd play in a web browser.
These don't exist for over decade now
I used to like Hollow Knight when it was new and not a lot of people heard about it but now that it’s popular I hate it.
I like still love the game but I can't defend its people, shitposters are even worse though.
The game is a masterpiece but it has one of the worst fanbases in gaming. I wonder what the concentration of troons and homosexuals is in the HK fanbase compared to the general population.
When's Silksong then?
It would be out already if developers were actually working on a game instead of posting on Ganker
People like to say Chrono Trigger is the most overhyped game ever, and it certainly is overhyped, but not nearly as much as this game is.
I played this expecting a life changing experience and the greatest "metroidvania" ever and all I got was a decent game at best, but nothing special. What a ripoff.
Only if you paid full price, which is stupid in this day and age. At like, 10-15 dollars it's worth it. For the personality if nothing else. It has real personality.
I've never seen anyone call HK life-changing. It's just a good game. There are people that consider it the best Metroidvania, and I'm not one of those people but I'm also not that far off.
For me, it will always be Super Metroid, but HK is #2. Haven't played any of the castlevania ones though.
>I played this expecting a life changing experience
why
>a hollow knight critic finally admits they never played the game
I am shocked
>t. zoomie who never played flash games growing up
I'm not even the biggest fan of this game but to say it looks like a "flash game" just exposes you as a fricking moron
Looks like a cheap flash game
seethe
I liked it. The style was what drew me in initially. The overall ambience was what kept me going.
>it looks like a cheap flash game you'd play in a web browser.
this is because you associate the style with it. it has nothing to do with quality and "looking like a flashgame" isnt a bad thing whatsoever
Looks better than shitstained, stay seething.
looks better than SotN garbled pixelated models
I don't care what the graphics are like, I care about the gameplay. And I hated HK's gameplay. Utter dogshit game.
>game gets popular
>Gankertards become massively insecure about it
Next you're going to pretend that this site always hated Undertale and totally wasn't in love with the 2013 demo.
I don't care about Undertale. Never played it, probably never will.
I bought Hollow Knight because some anons on Ganker convinced me it's great. Not just Ganker, some of my ''online'' friends as well. The game is shit.
>30 hours long Metroidvania
is not fun. And don't start again with
>i-i-it's 30 hours gameplay for only 15 eurodollars, dude!
My most top 3 played games last year all look like cheap shit browser games
That's because it was. Or at least, the knight was a flash vector asset I believe. Look up "Hungry Knight"
The gameplay isn't that good either. It's part of the zoomer wave along with dark souls where zoomers think cheap quarter extraction mechanics from 80s arcade games are what makes a game "good".
>I don't care how good the gameplay is
Neo-Ganker right there.
>''Hollow Knight is one of the best metroidvanias, guys! The best! There are no games like this! It is sooooo preeeetty!''
>Gleamlight comes out
>''Reeeeeeeeee!''
This is why normal people hate you HK shills.
>looks pretty go...
>mixed reviews
almost got me there, Gleamlight dev
You don't get it, anon. I hate both games.
But since Gleamlight has no fans, I hate only HK fanbase.
If it pays the bills, keeping up the shilling of your game is just being an ass.
Read again
Frick Hollow Knight, frick Gleamlight, frick CrossCode, frick Dark Souls 3, frick Path of Exile and Diablo 2 fans, and most of all, frick you Hollow Knight fans.
>Gleamlight
Never heard of it. It has "mixed" on Steam, but it's hard to tell if that's genuine or HK cultists.
Don't play it, anon. Don't even pirate it.
My point is that look exactly like Hollow Knight, visually, which is why they're having a meltdown.
Isn’t this game a crappy chink knockoff? I’ve got no problems with a game wearing its influence on its sleeve but I’m pretty sure the bad reviews are because it’s actually not fun to play.
If you want a game that just straight up lifts whole areas from HK but is also not shit, try Haiku the Robot.
>because it’s actually not fun to play.
...just like Hollow Knight.
not even that big of a hollow knight fan tbh but you still sound like a homosexual
>Rain World is the best metroidvania
>it isnt even a metroidvania
absolute state of this 'genre'
if this board got filtered by hollow knight theres no way anyone here played rain world kek
just did a replay of this. It was still a superb experience.
Aria of Sorrow is better than every game mentioned ITT
>can't get the true ending without reading a guide
Maybe if you're moronic, the game spells out for you the shit you need. Also I'm gonna shill the Blaster Master Zero trilogy while I'm at it.
nah I used to think that too but after revisiting it recently SOTN is way, way better. and I think SOTN's only the second best game mentioned in this thread
DUDE WHAT IF DARK SOULS BUT 2D
No, that's Salt & Sanctuary. Another game that's better than Hollow Knight.
I hate HollowKnight because its a boring and uninspired dodge roll + attack game but this is a moronic take. Probably 50% of my favorite games from the last few years look like flash games and the other 50% look like they were made before the year 2007. It is sad to see people hate on indie because they haven't seen any indie games besides the biggest memes. Indies are 100x better than anything coming out from AAA devs and its just getting better. Every single year since 2018 indie games have seen an exponential increase in average quality and games released. easily 75% of all indie games ever released have come out since 2019 yet the vast majority have never been seen. Favorites this year for me are
RollerDrome
Gedonia
Synthetik 1
A Violent Revalry
Sail Forth
End of Dyeus
I could make this list 50 games long but you get the point. Also the webm posted here is a test. If you hate on the game because the graphics look bad you fail.
>dodge roll
>dodge roll + attack
>Dodge roll
Anon habe you even seen a single photo of hollow knight or did you decide to hate it just because?
Hollow Knight is becoming the new Dark Souls in terms of how insufferable and naive its underage evangelist fanbase is. The Rick and Marty of video games.
If you want (you)s you should add more buzzwords to your post.
4/10
>proving his point
Ngmi
>Ngmi
That's a good start. Next practice the typing part so you don't make a fool out of yourself complaining about something you can't even spell.
>is becoming
You people have been saying this for years like a broken record, find a new argument
>entire thread rushes to prove correct
Loved Hades and don't know anything about Metroidvanias. Should I play this and or Dead Cells next?
Play Guacamelee.
>Guacamelee
This. Significantly better than HK in every way, far better map, better combat, actually visually interesting.
Guacamelee isn't even a metroidlike
A metroid fusionlike maybe kek
Understand words before trying to use them
>Guacamelee isn't even a metroidlike
>a game where getting new abilities opens up new areas previously unaccessable isn't a metroidvania
Guacamelee is too linear and uninterested in exploration.
Zoomers have no idea what these terms even mean. The anon that said HK was their first good game and so they've lionized it wasn't far off.
Reminder that you do not have to prove anything to a bunch of mentally ill anonymous, the game is already a success and there is nothing they can do about it except for cope posting
>Reminder that you do not have to prove anything to a bunch of mentally ill anonymous, the game is already a success and there is nothing they can do about it except for cope posting
Said the mentally ill anon in his cope post
Hollow Knight plays fine and looks fine.
Its problem is that its gameplay is very simple and interesting enough to carry a very short game, like the ones they had in the NES age where a perfect player can beat them in like three or four hours (first playthrough).
But it's not three or four hours, it's instead thirty or forty hours.
I guess people who just want to waste time doing the same things over and over feel good about it, like a platforming version of those forklift simulators, but for me it's unbearable after a certain point.
I haven't looked at Silksong at all, but those frickers NEED to make it smaller and put some meat on its bones.
>NEED to make it smaller
no they don't. if you want a short game then play something else. Some of people enjoy hk the way it is and want more of it, so a longer game is welcome
I'm really hoping they expand upon the idea of infected crossroads with more coverage with silksong.
that would be cool. I expected corruption to spread to other areas if I spent too much time dawddling/tackle bosses in certain order or any other triggers, but it never did. Guess that sort of interactivity would be hard to implement for a small team
I thought it was a fun play on the map mechanic by making the existing one obselete by blocking some of the previous paths. Having to think up a new route was peak exploration gameplay in my opinion. Just imagine going up, thinking what next and then finding out that to get back down you need to discard most of your previous route knowledge.
Probably just a silly dream however. I just hope some game does this at some point.
Game is varied enough with area gimmicks and bossfights that it never feel like its combat is too simple, if anything HK feels more like the gift that keeps on giving rather than a game that drags out for way too long without offering anything new.
>Game is varied enough
No it's really really really fricking not. I got bored of its combat in like 30 minutes and it never really added anything substantial to it.
>if anything HK feels more like the gift that keeps on giving rather than a game that drags out for way too long without offering anything new.
You play a lot of forklift simulators huh? What's the hottest one?
>its gameplay is very simple and interesting enough to carry a very short game
Idk man, the bosses in the Pantheons are interesting enough that I practiced them for dozens of hours. I've beaten pretty much everything there is to beat so I probably won't ever do a real playthrough again but it gave me 150 hours of fun.
What is it about this game that makes people seethe so much? Is it its popularity?
I think it's the autistic fans. They're worse than anime people.
what's autistic about its fans?
I don't like them and i tell everyone about how I don't like them at any opportunity. People get annoyed at me because they're so autistic, it's unbelievable!
Combative confidence in incorrect information, weird obsessiveness to the point they bring the game up in unrelated conversation for years, bizarre need to tie their self worth to whether people like a video game and the resulting rage outbursts when they encounter someone who doesn't, etc. They're just unpleasant and unintelligent people who can't seem to form coherent sentences without memes and tiktok pidgin, and they make the board worse. It's unfortunate, because like Dark Souls, the game itself is decent, if not great, but there's so many people around it that behave like foot fetishists or hentai enthusiasts that the game gets tarred and feathered by association.
that describes any fan
Nope.
Imagine typing all this out just to whine about people liking something you don't like
>bring the game up in unrelated conversation for years
what conversation? sounds like seethe
>bizarre need to tie their self worth to whether people like a video game and the resulting rage outbursts when they encounter someone who doesn't
You can see the truth of this immediately.
Nah Dark Souls is shite, I can't believe homies gassed up this mediocrity for over a decade to the point that even its creator is ready to move on.
I did the opposite and had the opposite reaction. SotN just falls through the floor in quality once Inverted Castle hits. Love me some Finale Toccata though that's a good ass song.
It was a birthday gift. I don't like HK at all but there are things it does well enough that I look forward to Silksong hoping for improvements.
You and I have wildly different tastes if you don't like Hollow Knight and outright hate Dark Souls 1.
Ganker is where 11 year olds go to blow off steam
success breeds jealousy
>What is it about this game that makes people seethe so much?
Counterreaction to the fans screaming it's the best metroidvania game ever made, when it's mid af and most people quit it midway through because it's boring.
>mid
opinion discarded
Mid is a useful word for describing things that are mid af.
People are tired of the homosexual fans
Shitters seething over this game is the only thing sustaining fans as they wait for the sequel.
So stop posting here and work on your game, mister developer.
it will release with game pass, you just wait!
You never actually played a flash game, zoomer.
NTA, but I'm 35, and yes, it feels like a flash game. It reminds me of when Xbox live arcade was first a thing, and there was a sudden glut of newgrounds style flash ports.
there is always more posts complaining about the fans than fans themselves
really makes you think
Remember that there's a sizeable chunk of easily manipulated idiots who bought the game because they saw their buddies on Ganker saying it was great and now they're disappointed because their buddies on Ganker LIED to them.
They aren't very good at forming their own opinions so they genuinely think that people having different opinions than them must be some sort of shill conspiracy rather than just...a normal part of life.
>there is always more posts complaining about the fans than fans themselves
gee, I wonder why.
fans
>constantly liking things and discussing them
>posts weird porn
>never stays in their own threads
fans
>circulate fresh air
>cools down the room
>emit satisfying brown noise for relaxation
it's almost like one is a board experience ruining contributor whereas the other is a comfort-inducing appliance
*le gasp*
I've seen a thread for a game I don't care for!
Board ruined!!
liking things and discussing them
those fricking rascal
>it's a flash game because t has outlines
summed up this whole thread for you guys
Hollow Knight has almost the exact same depth in its system as Castlevania. Not Castlevania: Symphony of the Night, but the first Castlevania from 1986.
You have one weapon with three (3) upgrades that do nothing but increase damage, and one additional trick that you can pick from a few options.
Castlevania 1986 can be beaten in less than one hour easily.
yeah true if you ignore all the things that make HK's combat more complex it has the same gameplay as pong good point
You fogot a tiny detail
The pogo attack in hollow knight is one of the core mechanics of its platforming and combat, that alone with the boss and enemy desing puts Hollow Knight way above castlevania and even Sympony of the Night
i hate to admit it, but i'm a brainlet who didn't know pogo attacks existed until after I finished the game. I did have problems, probably because of it, with some parts though
I genuinely can't tell if you're joking or if you're really so delusional you think one extra attack is a significant enough difference to even mention.
Hollow Knight takes a million fricking years to beat and runs out of interesting things 45 minutes in.
NTA but
After i beat P5 with all bindings on, i was 100% certain HK had more depth to the combat than any other simplistic 2d metroid-like the other anons mentioned. The depth is not exactly necessary, nor does it necessarily come into play for the average player in their first playthrough, but it is there. This isnt because of just the single attack, but primarily due to the enemy design
All your post tells me is that you have not played any other games in your life.
anon, fancy extra combat moves dont mean much if the enemies remain so simplistic and the gravity/flow isnt very great. this alone makes p5 all bindings feel a lot higher skill ceiling than old metroid-castlevania games, most of which i have played. Ultimately it mostly entirely boils down to the enemy design
Look at Ori 2, for example. That game easily has a core movement system, a core moveset, and abilities that could make the game by far the most complex and in depth 2d-sidescroller combat of all time, with extremely great and precise movement, the ability to combo enemies in very extensive and creative ways. But none of that matters, because that is simply not the game the devs wanted to make, and therefore the bosses are very simple and basic, digestible for a casual crowd and the player moveset isnt specifically timed for moves to flow with eachother.
Cope, HK has actual enemy desings and bosses, something that castlevania never learned and it took metroid until Metroid dread to learn
b-but the combat in HK is bad because you only have the nail!
That's a bad point to make my guy
I don't hate DS1, I don't think it's very good but there are absolutely things in it I liked, but the main issues I had were the sluggish start and everything falling to pieces after Anor Londo. That said I don't know how much fun I would have had without the Great Club. Big stick is 100% the way to play that game and it made up for me not being all that engaged by the combat
>That's a bad point to make my guy
No, it's a very good point. It illustrates how little content HK has compared to its insane length.
Hollow Knight is TRIPLE the length of Symphony of the Night (seriously, look it up, three fricking times the length) and has maybe 1% of the content of SotN. It is mind-boggling that some people are insane enough to claim that's not a problem.
The comparison made was NES Castlevania, a completely different style of game. Castlevania and Mega Man were simple as is typical of the era but their enemy and level designs accommodated for that to provide an intense challenge that would very likely take many attempts and actual mastery to overcome. Hollow Knight is far too long for sure but it's clearly keeping in mind Metroid, Zelda 2, or Faxanadu insofar as 2D platformers go. After that slap on some superficial Dark Souls shit and boom.
It's a far shorter game so in theory it shouldn't be an issue. Maridia exists though.
>It's a far shorter game so in theory it shouldn't be an issue
Yeah, I've always lost interest about an hour or two in. I still haven't played all that many games when all is considered, there's just so many to play. I'll finish it someday. I do think a lot of people are blinded by nostalgia with Super Metroid. Not to say it's bad or anything but the movement and combat is a lot stiffer than a game like Hollow Knight.
Super Metroid is absolutely put on a pedestal. Zero Mission is much, much better, play that.
Even things I dislike have positives. I'd consider it maybe a 4/10. It's bad overall but it has some merit. I express myself in hyperbole but there is nuance here.
Anon you called Dark Souls 1 "shite". You can't turn around and say "ummm ahhhh actually there are good things too!" the moment you face the mildest resistance to your views.
Anyway, I would never call Dark Souls' start "sluggish", wtf. It's a great romp through a classic fantasy setting which still manages to have its own character.
Your mistake is assuming combat is the sum total of depth. Hollow Knight is about exploration first and foremost. Combat is there to help curate the tone of each area, not to be the thing you focus on.
even flash porn animations don't look as good and those were times better than flash gaymes
>Zoomers think calling something a "Flash game" is an insult
I feel so bad for your generation
and that is precisely why i like it. SOUL
ori is my favorite game
and i now post anything that implies Ori is an indie game in every single thread to piss off the autistic origay
I like hollow knight but the combat is bland. For such a massive game it lacks depth. Its hollow
The combat is actually pretty good, but it doesn't really have enough depth to merit repeat playthroughs, especially when I can fight every boss in the DLC
Haha you're old enough to know what flash is and have strong feelings about it, how about you shut the frick up old homosexual a rocking chair would suit you more
>old men feel personally attacked by new thing
Tale as old as time. They will keep spouting someshit about Super Metroid like a broken record until the day they die, and they will be convinced they're right.
There are insurmountable amounts of hate within you
I'm 36 and I couldn't care less about old games, they're not the gold standard and their only redeeming factor is nostalgia.
Metroidvanias have evolved so much since super metroid and sotn, they're history and well worth mentioning for how they spawned better games and for outdated they are, that's all.
HK is fricking great, and so are La Mulana, ESA, Rain World (it barely qualifies but people bring up Ori all the time which is not only just alright but also barely a metroidvania).
>but people bring up Ori all the time
The ones who bring up Ori 1 are straight up wrong because it's in NO way a metridvania. Ori 2 is a proper one though.
>children feel like their limited experience of a thing is the sum total of the thing
Tale as old as time. They will keep spouting someshit about Hollow Knight like a broken record until the day they die, and they will be convinced they're right.
>parroting
Oops, old man was broken so hard he reverted to kindergarten. Thanks for playing.
>child isn't able to understand the example of his own statement with a simple variable swap
I expected nothing less.
>variable swap
Beautiful description of a mindless "no u" argument. You are very intelligent and I bet you own many rare funko pops.
>starts ranting about funko pops out of the blue
No, I don't own any funko pops. You bring that up because you're unable to argue a point on its own merits, and so anyone who disagrees with you about anything must be turned into a straw man representation of anyone who has ever disagreed with you about anything. This is childish behavior, and a consequence of the childish way you've invested so much of your self worth into the popular acceptance of a mediocre video game.
The idea behind a variable swap is to try and get across to you that what you're saying is lazy, dismissive, and hollow. Unfortunately, even provided with a clear example, you're not intelligent enough or mature enough to understand. "Anyone who likes (game I don't like) is (pejorative), so take that you (pejorative)!" is what flies for a meaningful statement when you're 9. It's not something anybody old enough to post here should be doing.
The bug motif disgusts me more than the art style itself tbh
GRIME is better.
Hollow Knight isn't even the best metroidvania indie flashlike. It really seems to only have a following among the sort of zoomer who thinks playing "hard" games is a personality.
It's not considered a hard game though
You'd think that, right? But anon's correct; it has a reputation for being super hard because of the bosses.
It is? That hasn't been mentioned even once in this thread.
I think you're reaching a little bit.
The only hard part is Godhome and that's because it's a boss rush but none of the bosses are considered hard individually except maybe Radiance but mostly because he comes after the HK in the base game and that makes it more stressful.
>It is?
Not on Ganker, anon.
It has the same reputation as fromshit, hence attracting the same repugnant audience
It depends how deep you go into the game.
What game is the best metroidvania indie flash game them?
Shadow Complex, Guacamelee, Ori were all better.
I don't think it looks bad at all but I don't like how every enviroment looks so same-y minus a different color fog-tint. It's the one thing that's kinda keeping me from playing it, it doesn't look all that enticing to explore compared to something like Symphony of the Night where every single area has a unique feel and purpose to it with unique tilesets etc.
>it doesn't look all that enticing to explore
you're right. Not only are the environments boring and samey but you're never going to find anything interesting, it has some of the worst loot in the genre.
>it has some of the worst loot in the genre
It actually has some of the best loot in the entire genre, just because you can find absolutely broken stuff in castlevania it doesnt mean that the game is better
Just don’t think it’s anywhere near a masterpiece like so many people say it is. I’ve beaten it and all the dlc, and i did it all just to see what the fuss was about. I didn’t really enjoy myself. It’s like the game is anti-fun a lot of the time. The combat and world exploring are two of the most essential elements in its gameplay, but it all just feels like such a drag. Room to room combat takes so much longer than it feels like it needs to, and it’s slowed down by the god awful healing time with every stray hit you take. Nearly every room that doesn’t have some kind of set piece in it, is just a copy paste “ biome “ room with the same enemies from that biome over and over again, and boring platforming. I think I find the platforming boring mainly due to a lack of weight on your character. Just feels unsatisfying to move to me. The game’s bosses and set pieces are great, but the main bulk (99% of the other stuff ) just feels so bogged down by tedium, annoying empty worlds and unsatisfying combat / platforming.
I'm not new to difficult games. I enjoy them. Enter the gungeon, Cuphead, Furi, Dark souls, Sekiro, Boshy etc. These are all games I've played, haven't finished ETG or Boshy though. And like in every game, not just the ones mentioned above, you're usually put in scenarios where bosses have much more health than you do and hit harder than you do. And because you're in such a disadvantaged position, the game then tries to level the playing field by giving you the ability to either dodge or deflect your enemies attacks. Its what makes the game difficult, but fair.
Hollow Knight is not a fair game. Boss attacks are poorly telegraphed, giving the player no time to react at all. That, coupled with bad RNG leaves you in situations where you're forced to take damage. It leave the player feeling like when they do finally beat the boss, that they just got lucky instead of through skill.
Now this isnt every boss obviously. I also get that there are people who do no hit any% runs. And that's obviously an achievement on its own, but even they skip certain bosses and use very specific charms that someone on their first playthrough might not know about.
But overall, its a shame. I think it does so many things right, music, atmosphere, storytelling, exploration etc, and with this game receiving such a huge amount of praise, I really wanted to enjoy it. But some of the boss fights just ruin the experience for me. Basically, would not recommend.
I don't think there's a single boss in HK with bad telegraphs and/or significant RNG factors.
I think the only boss with some shit RNG is Zote and even then it isnt that bad
Yeah I don't get it either.
When it comes to bosses HK feels like one of the more polished games, there's no RNG or constant barrage of attacks that you're forced to eat up, it's all very fair and readable.
I'm absolutely abysmal at platformers and beat Hollow Knight (the main bulk of it anyway, I'm not autistic enough for Godhome) just fine, sounds like you just suck.
Zote is probably the only boss that's 'unfair', but he's basically a joke boss anyway
>basically a joke boss anyway
Zote is literally a super boss tho
>indie game has pixel art
OH WOOWWW HECKIN RETRO NOSTALGIA xDDdd
>indie game doesn't have pixel art
OH WOOWWW IT LOOKS LIKE A FUGGIN FLASH GAME KEKE
What is the win condition?
the win condition is that you stop listening to people because there will always be some moron who hates your art style
the win condition is not reading the exaggerated seething of Gankerirgins on 4chins
Well made pixel art is a fricking treat and it's one of the reasons why I like Inti-Creates
Too bad inti-creates only makes weebslop nowdays
Why the frick is the level desing so shit in gunvolt?
They also made Blaster Master Zero, two Bloodstained games, they have a new game next month, etc.
>Weebslop
Bro they made bishonen Zero. Also Gunvolt is more of a scoring game and I do think it's kinda jank but Copen feels a lot better to play as.
Sometimes I forget inti does more than gunvolt, still the level desing in gunvolt makes those games unplayable and copen isnt that good to play as
the real tragedy of this game is that its actually good and worth playing
the problem is that putting a boss rush mode at the end, instead of telling a complete story, is very unsatisfying
if you enjoyed hollow knight, I recommend playing MegamanX 1 2 and 3, and then stop there. Its the same gameplay, with better environments and secrets, but doesn't leave you feeling 'hollow' at the end.
Hollow Knight is a really good 8/10 game that gets ruined by autists spending years of their life trying to push it as the second coming, and it can't live up to that. It's a nice little indie game, not perfect, not bad.
Fair enough, the fanbase is shit
I really enjoyed the boss rush tbh. I don't really care about story in games, atmosphere matters more to me.
Games don't get ruined by morons on forums. That's entirely on you for hanging around the morons in the first place.
They absolutely do. You can't honestly enjoy a game when you're fully aware that people you hate are also playing it. If you favorite game has trannies among its fans, it'll inevitably sour the game for you.
>You can't honestly enjoy a game when you're fully aware that people you hate are also playing it. If you favorite game has trannies among its fans, it'll inevitably sour the game for you.
This is the most autistic think I've ever read, and I've been on this site a while
>tfw as a kid only played x4, x5, x6
>loved them
>internet comes out, check what people say
>apparently they're all shit and only the previous ones were good
i refuse to believe
You should play through them all
Yes even X7, marathoning the entire X series was an interesting experience
It just bored me to tears. Exploration wasn't particularly fun and the game tosses almost nothing but the most lame upgrades at you in the first several hours, with 1 exception.
Bros... how am I ever going to kill the radiant version of this? I took like 10 hits on ascension.
just avoid his attacks and deal damage and you'll be fine 🙂
>his attacks
Radiance uses she/her pronouns you fricking bigot
Why? After I beat PoH I was satisfied and basically retired from the game
if you're going to play a challenge mode why not just play an actually good game like rabi ribi?
Rabi ribi doesn't even have as good combat or bosses as Hollow Knight and that's all the game has going for it.
are you fricking moronic lol
Ok anon, explain how Ribi Ribi has better combat than fricking hollow knight.
not him but rabi ribi has a completely different approach to combat so i dunno what's the point of comparing. hk is about fluidity and how you can simultaneously dodge attacks based on telegraphs while hitting the boss back, getting 'inside' their pattern in a way. rabi ribi has static combos and static dodge phases, you have to get good at each separately.
i think rabi ribi ends up being more intense on the proper difficulties (hard and above, especially if you do no pots/no buffs) but it isn't as fast-paced as hk and many people would mark that as an objectively bad thing (i don't).
>so i dunno what's the point of comparing
People don't compare things that are identical anon. The entire point of comparison is to highlight the differences.
but there's also no point to comparing things that are wholly dissimilar. what has better combat, pokemon or half-life? question doesn't compute.
now i'm not gonna say rabi ribi and hk are THAT different from each other, but if we want to make a judgement about which one 'has better combat' then i say there are no real reference points to start with. most other metroidvanias and action platformers can be compared much more directly with hk since their dodge/attack dynamic is essentially identical, but rabi ribi is different (and i can't think of that many games that do what rabi ribi does)
>what has better combat, pokemon or half-life?
Half-life. Pokemon Combat is turn based, so even ignoring that it's essentially level based and a glorified rock/paper/scissors, it's inferior to Half-Life.
>question doesn't compute
I think you need to download more RAM then or something, buddy.
why is turn-based objectively inferior? see that's where i say you have no reference point. you're just blatantly dropping your opinion, which anyone can do.
>why is turn-based objectively inferior?
It by definition has less elements than real time making it less complex. Having the leeway to wait for your opponent to move before you can do anything is simplistic, and less immersive.
There ARE turn based games that are more complex as a whole than some real time games, for an extreme example we have Civilization vs flappy bird, but I'm only comparing the elements of real time VS turn based here. And even if Pokemon combat WASN'T turn based, it would still suck.
>you're just blatantly dropping your opinion
Damn dude, what tipped you off? That I was making a post lmao? The fact is that my opinion has more depth to it than what just anybody can do.
>letting the orbs chase you in P4 instead of pogoing on her head so they despawn when they move offscreen
The only trick is you’re also offscreen so you need to keep mental track of your own position and be ready to dash when she teleports.
>casually mogs every metroidvania ever made
Yeah it just mogs in the kusoge competition.
No it doesnt.
You have never played a flash game in your life, contrarian homosexual.
no it doesn't
Remove the background and it will
remove yourself from life
Seethe
Damn who would've thought that Ganker hates hollow knight
I honestly found Hollow Knight floaty, with bad combat, and utterly derivative of Dark Souls in its story.
>floaty, with bad combat
This is the lamest non-critique I've ever seen on here. It's like you can't find anything to fault the game for but you want to find fault with it anyways, so you just make up some vague nonsense about how it "feels" """floaty""" and then you claim the combat is "bad" without providing any context or argument.
gameplay is insanely boring in hk, idk what morons shill it this hard
Flash games don't look this good. And besides, those illustrations were drawn at a pretty high resolution, which takes up a lot of disk space. Not at all ideal for storing on a web server.
>godmaster trains you to be a god at this game
>silksong comes and is piss easy in comparison
Oh uh did I frick myself over here?
Not like the base game should ride on difficulty. It's not the point. I'm sure Silksong will have some bullshit post-game stuff, maybe not on release but still
Joining the plain white protagonist indie thread
You literally couldn't make this game in flash because it uses layers to achieve a parallax effect. The art direction is brilliant. The usage of color is wonderfully composed; you instantly know where you are just by the color palette. The blending of hand-drawn animation with procedural effects is really tastefully done. The environments are shockingly detailed and subtly tell an entire story. The characters/enemies are bold and simple with lower-frame animation to help them stand out from the scenery. I do kind of get where OP is coming from, because lots of cheap games look very similar in a few still images so I disregarded it as first too. But in-motion, fullscreen it becomes very evident that it's a cut above.
There was a time where I thought I was becoming disillusioned with games because I'd try these hyped products and they wouldn't hold up. Played Hollow Knight a couple years ago, started slow but once I got the wall grab and the map opened up I was blown away. The combat/movement felt tight, the upgrades/unlocks felt meaningful, the music tracks complemented everything exactly the way they needed to, and the exploration... Man, I don't think a game has been able to so consistently pull me into hours-long detours since Skyrim. For a map so large, it has a lot of thought put into the world design.
>You literally couldn't make this game in flash because it uses layers to achieve a parallax effect.
Pretty sure the game literally started off as a flash game.
>The art direction is brilliant
lol Frick off, inexperienced, child.
I think hungry knight was made in flash
But that game has nothing to do with hk besides being made by the same devs
the art is pretty great it's not even subjective what's your problem dude
Absolute moron. You wouldn't know art if it hit you in the face.
>Pretty sure the game literally started off as a flash game.
And? That speaks to their artistic vision if anything. Tons of software projects out there use fancy tooling for no other reason than "that's was serious developers use". In my own life, I was told to get a service running on Kubernetes because that's the hot buzzword in my line of work. After studying the application, it became obvious that the program could (and should) be optimized to run on a single machine nullifying Kubernetes's primary upside. What this tells me is Team Cherry were focused on the game design not showing off their tech, and only changed tooling when they knew there were specific things they wanted out of it.
The art direction is very good. That's probably the defining trait of any indie game that gets noticed. Dollars to donuts it's because the visual design grabbed people.
>lol Frick off, inexperienced, child.
The irony of calling somebody a child with that sentence structure.
Just brought it yesterday.
So far really fun and the game has gorgeous art.
I love when games have an environment that makes sense for their specific world.
It has better visuals than 99% of AAA games. You are a moronic philistine.
>it looks like a cheap flash game you'd play in a web browser
definitely not. Flash games were waaaaaaaayy cheaper looking you have no idea what you are talking about. HK has many layers of 2D art to create amazing and immersive visuals. It is not flash art, it is pure animation kino
>”No way I can beat the Radiance but I’ll give it a few tries at least.”
>”Okay Nightmare King is way too hard but I can see if I can at least get a little further in.”
>”Damn Trial of the Fool is no joke but I think I was pretty close there I just have to not be stupid on that one part.”
>”Maybe I’ll do a couple of the easy Pantheons but I’m definitely not getting past four.”
>”Okay so even though I’ve done everything else P5 is insane I will for sure never beat this but I know there’s some cool new bosses and I might as well at least check it out.”
>”Well damn I guess I got gud.”
Yeah, you'll "get it" when you play it in motion.
The only real issue with this game is the unsatisfying conclusions to the story, which you have to fight unreasonably hard to even see.
You've never played a flash game if you think hollow knight looks anything like one. Or you've never played hollow knight and are just looking at screenshots. Give me the name of a flash game that has over 25 layers of parallax