I fixed Magic: the Gathering

"Both players randomly mix in the same number of Wastes to their lands and put the combined pile in a zone called the Manabase. In the draw step, a player could choose between drawing from his library or from his own Manabase. Then instead of being screwed by having no lands at all, you would only be screwed off certain colors.

The stronger player could be forced to have more Wastes in his manabase. A player's ELO would dictate how many Wastes are added to their manabase. A newcomer would be a zero Wastes player, while a pro may have a Ten Wastes handicap. Professionals would have to maindeck generic artifacts to counterbalance the fact that they may never even draw colored mana."

  1. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >trying to fix it
    Why? They like it broken.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Don't you see? The mana system BECOMES the ELO system! I HAVE FIXED THE GAME

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Well. Yeah. Huh.

  2. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Wouldn’t it be annoying for grindy decks to have to draw every land? It’s important for them to have 2-3 lands in hand already with early protection to stay alive. If they have to draw 1 at a time they’ll be stuck with the same cards in hand for like four turns

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      The game is already broken. This fixes the power creep retroactively. Not only that, but unplayable garbage like Armillary Sphere becomes an exciting adventure

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        you would have to ban charbelcher though

  3. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    No.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      whatever, Zero Wastes player

  4. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >it's another "SPLIT THE LAND AND SPELL PILES AND THE PLAYER HAS TO CHOOSE BETWEEN THE TWO WHEN DRAWING" suggestion

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      MTGO already has an ELO system. You could literally make a chart that converts that to the number of Wastes to add to a player's manabase.

      We can even replace Stone Rains with effects that attack or mill the manabase like adding more Wastes or Jester's Capping the opponent's lands.

      Mono-Red may become too good, the banlists would all have to be re-evaluated. But adding a handicap system to MTG opens up really interesting opportunities

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >Mono-Red may become too good, the banlists would all have to be re-evaluated. But adding a handicap system to MTG opens up really interesting opportunities
        It really does not. Your ELO system is pure RNG. I don't know if you can understand this, but losing a game because I drew literally worthless cards for 5 turns is a fucking shit way tk design a game.

  5. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    That is fucking retarded. This makes the game entirely RNG. If you don't draw the cards you need on turn 1 you're fucked because you won't be drawing anything o. the first 1-5 turns at all. It makes Red the king of the game.
    This only works in Inscryption because the game's singleplayer AND designed around it, and even then it gives you a free resource on turn 1.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >This makes the game entirely RNG

      Then play colorless artifacts. The point is that you can't defeat not having lands with skill, but you can defeat color screw

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        But forcing your players to use certain cards to even play the game is cancerous game design. 90% the fun of MTG is playing around with different deck styles. If you force everyone to run colorless artifacts they'll have to pick cards that work alongside colorless artifacts and BAM! Everyone is running the same fucking deck!
        You are a moron. Also, you didn't address my first point. As you need to choose between drawing lands and drawing spells, if you don't get EVERYTHING you need in the first turn you're fucked a the way to Sunday becusse you can't draw anything before getting your lands online.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          >If you force everyone to run colorless artifacts they'll have to pick cards that work alongside colorless artifacts

          There are colorless cards that aren't artifacts. Maybe they could just make Devoid evergreen. As is, there is basically no penalty for playing 5 colors all of the time. There needs to be some reason for sticking to one or two colors other than Nykthos

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Have you ever played Inscryption?

            • 2 months ago
              Anonymous

              No, I thought of this because I noticed that choosing between running Absorb or running more copies of Field of Ruin was more fun than actually playing games of Magic: the Gathering

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                Well, you should. It uses a secondary resource pile and it addresses a lot of my concerns. Aside from my RNG concern, I worry that this system you're devising just isn't fun to play. Imagine Magic, but you can't draw for the first 3 or 4 turns. That's just a fucking slog of an earlygame that serves no purpose. It opens no new horizons and the Waste mechanic is just pointlessly punishing towards anyone who isn't running colorless cards. What is gained from that mechanic? Nothing. It just gimps a bunch of decks. No new ideas arise from this. It only removes viable tactical decisions while adding nothing.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                Yeah, someone would have to playtest it to see how it works in practice. I think that putting more emphasis on the differences between colors is a good idea considering the point of Magic is that the five colors are all different. Plus some weak colorless cards like Barbed Sextant and Chromatic Lantern retroactively become more interesting

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                You really should try out Inscryption. It's avaliable on GOG, so you can pirate it without any trouble. It's probably one of the best ways to implement a resource pile. It'll help you develop that idea of yours.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                thanks, i'll look into it. slay the spire does a good job too, but that wouldn't work in an analog game

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                The thing about Inscryption is that it's broken in your favor on purpose.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                i actually just dug up some new phyrexia draft decks and tested my mana system. initially i added 12 wastes to each player's manabase, but that proved too high. i'm not sure what the correct number would be

                during the game, you actually don't want to only draw spells. for tempo, there are times when you want to draw a land, even if it's a Wastes, just so you can cast two spells in one turn.

                the Wastes force you to pay attention to every colored pip on your cards so you can sequence your plays better. it feels significantly more skill-intensive, and you need to know what cards are in your deck to plan your draws ahead of time.

                i'm just not sure how mulligans and starting hands should work. do you draw 4 spells and 3 from your manabase? what happens if you mulligan, do you have to shuffle each deck? that would take forever. you should probably just put the cards back in the correct pile on the bottom in a random order.

                the gameplay was much more interesting compared to just drawing a card and curving out every turn, though. and the lack of mana screw means you never have non-games. it's certainly better than best of one like on Arena, is a completely random waste of time

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                then run an inshop event with your odd modifications
                that's the next step yes?
                put your pony where the cart ends, laddycakes

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            redo chroma again, but instead of "devotion", "oath" or some queer shit
            shit that is only playable when locked into 2 mana types
            or shit that is buffed when locked into certain mana types
            and to dab on mono, make green and red have strange and varied oath combos

  6. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Truly based. Far better than gay current mtg.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      even if this specifically isn't optimal, the idea of switching from land to color screw is clearly the direction the game should have went in

  7. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Posting in a dunning kruger thread

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >doesn't want to see Reid Duke have to run Patagia Golem as a finisher because his ELO is too high

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        Yeah I don't want to. Also, the ELO system is dumb. It's impossible to implement in cardgame Magic. Amd if you want to make MTGO an entirely different game from regular Magic, might as well make a new game, one that is DESIGNED for pile of lands.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          ELO doesn't work in team games. It absolutely works in Chess and Magic, plus every 1v1 fighting game like Tekken, SF, etc

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            But ELO in Chess or Magic doesn't change the game. It just puts you up against different opponents. Imagine chess.com made you lose a random piece for every 100 ELO you had above a certain threshold. It would lead to a cancerous game where you're entirely at the mercy of a diceroll.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >It absolutely works in Chess and Magic
            Not really, no. It's just the best we have so the Chess nerds put up with it.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          Terrible gameplay example:

  8. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    You know what's played a lot more than professional magic? Kitchen table magic. Just a bunch of friends getting together and playing each other.

    How many Wastes do they use?

    Follow up: What if players just learned how to balance their God-damned mana base?

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      This is a thinly veiled attempt to bring back kitchen table magic, you goof. You're ruining the surprise

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >to bring back kitchen table magic

        It's never gone anywhere. It's still the most popular "format" in that way, way, way more games are played casually among friends then they are in any tournament or professional setting. For every game played at a FLGS there's ten played at a kitchen table or on the living-room floor or in a cafeteria.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          But nobody even has two decks of comparable strength to play against each other. That is why I am making a handicap system

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            If your deck is badly designed, make a fucking better deck instead of seething endlessly about it.
            Your handicap system is just unworkable. Am I supposed to average out every match we ever did with the skill of my opponents so I can calculate my IRL ELO?

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >But nobody even has two decks of comparable strength to play against each other

            Given the sheer number of options in Magic, even in just a typical Type-2 format, I don't even know how you'd begin to calculate "comparable strength" between two decks.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          When I was on staff at a Scout camp back in the day before they completely fagged out, Magic was one of the principle pastimes of the youth staff (and some of the senior staff as well). From Reveille to Taps you could walk by the pavilion in the staff village and see at the bare minimum one Magic game being played, usually at least two or three. It was so popular that the main store in the tiny unincorporated town that catered to the camp had a corner dedicated to Magic cards.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Same with my old christian camp out in the sticks in the midwest.
            Only time you didn't have games going is when they had veggie tales popping.
            7th was going strong at the time so there was little rule bloat and anyone could slap down a functional setup.
            I kept an ashnods coupon in my wallet for almost fifteen years and used it for a bottle of johnny one halloween,
            I used to love magic so purely.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Kitchen table is and has always been the patrician form of Magic. But I suspect OP mostly plays on Arena, hence his focus on the random element of a card game.

  9. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Why yes I will mill the mana deck and spend all my time and spells drawing from it to manafuck my opponent. How could you tell?

  10. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    The thing is it's already possible to build a deck that completely avoids mana screw. Just load it up with the MDFC cards from Zendikar Rising that function as either a spell or a tapland. Throw in some other cycling cards for good measure and it'll be very unlikely for you to play a game where you don't get to play

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      this is true but you could theoretically make mtg into a totally skill-based game, the wastes are like a compatibility layer between players of different deck strength and skill levels. if we get this right casinos could literally run MTG tables like poker or craps

  11. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    just play it however you want, it's your cardboard lol
    /thread

  12. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Reading this thread makes my brain die. The worst part is that after removing manascrew "useless" draws because you can't draw a land, you intentionally add back in genuinely useless land draws to undo what you fixed.

    ELO is a meme, this game is made of cardboard.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >The worst part is that after removing manascrew "useless" draws because you can't draw a land, you intentionally add back in genuinely useless land draws to undo what you fixed.

      That's the entire point, we can reduce the variance and make the game more like Chess and Tekken while keeping almost the entire comp rules intact

  13. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    threadly reminder that Magic is THE ONLY GAME where losing before gameplay begins is considered acceptable

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