>I gag the wizard as a grapple with my gauntleted fist to stop them from casting verbal spells

>I gag the wizard as a grapple with my gauntleted fist to stop them from casting verbal spells
>you, the GM, look down at the wizard you had prepared and realize he's boned if this goes through, no useful non-verbal spells and the player has two 7/8 chances of success to grapple
As the GM, how would you rule this situation?

No, this isn't a caster vs martial thread.

No, I don't want to hear how you, a wizard player, have prepared for this. I know more counters than you do anyway.

I'm asking how you, as a GM, would play this out.

  1. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Is wizards player okay with initiating combat?

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      reread the OP and think about that question again.

  2. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    If the martial player has somehow managed to get within grappling distance of the wizard despite all his precautions, then he should be allowed to go ahead and disable the spellcaster.

    I commend the martial player for his ingenuity and proceed with the game.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >despite all his precautions
      This is why concentration was added to spells

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      One of my favorite bits in KOTOR was an extended discussion on how to kill Jedi, which included things like poison mist and long-range turrets, rockfalls and pit traps, and so one. Countermeasures like playing poker in your head or thinking about porn, a lot of porn.

      For the same reason I tend to try and homebrew a "wizard-killer" prestige class in most games I have where I'm making my own setting, as well as an "anti-wizard", which is a prestige class built around the idea of being a demolitionist to the Wizard's architect.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      /thread. Can't imagine why I would do anything other than continue to play the game.

      Ignoring the retards who think think this is a caster vs. martial thread for a moment, I have prepared NPCs that die immediately before doing anything cool all the time. That's just part of running a game, the players will sometimes catch your bad guys off-guard. If you think this is anything other than a good thing (and maybe a sign that you should mix up your encounters a little) then that's a red flag that you may be a bad GM. Roll with it and don't let your ego get in the way.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >I have prepared NPCs that die immediately before doing anything cool all the time.
        Is THAT what OP is getting at? Yeah, christ, you can't get attached to NPCs. Drive them like stolen cars, and design locations that look better on fire too.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Correct, also, any decent system should still allow the caster a fairly good chance of wriggling out of the martial's grasp unless he's incredibly frail.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      As said.

      If I really wanted some kind of combat this session I can always put a dragon in the next room or something.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      SPBP.
      Playing a STR+CON focused grappler in 5E and it's fun. Sometimes I chokeslam the wizard into the environment. And when I slip up, I get charmed by the wizard and roll max to damage the warlock.

  3. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    "Alright, Mr Martial. You can either grapple the caster and stop him from moving, or cover his mouth. But then he will be able to move. Okay, so you cover his mouth. Caster failed the check. Caster, you can either make a contested strength roll to free your mouth, or move out of the fighters combat range to speak and cast again. He gets an attack of opportunity for that. You also may roll a D20. If you hit 10 or above, you manage to mumble into the gauntlet and the spell still takes effect."

    There you go.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Extremely lame ruling, my dude.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        Your taste is not my concern. Go along with it or get another table.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          "Alright, Mr Martial. You can either grapple the caster and stop him from moving, or cover his mouth. But then he will be able to move. Okay, so you cover his mouth. Caster failed the check. Caster, you can either make a contested strength roll to free your mouth, or move out of the fighters combat range to speak and cast again. He gets an attack of opportunity for that. You also may roll a D20. If you hit 10 or above, you manage to mumble into the gauntlet and the spell still takes effect."

          There you go.

          le ebin balance video game GM

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >implying you can't gag someone AND stop them from moving

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >what is game balance
        >why dont you give martials an i win button
        Yeah, i wonder why that is

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          Oh so NOW casterfags care about balance.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >dm, i want to restrict this guys ability to move and nullify his action with a single move
            >its not in the book btw, i just made it up
            >wtf, why dont you allow it?
            >fucking casterfag, REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
            Touch grass.

            • 2 months ago
              Anonymous

              But if it was a single spell, that'd be okay

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                Yes, because that's in the rules

            • 2 months ago
              Anonymous

              But hold person is just fine. Eat shit wizard

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                See

                >sorry anon, but you can grapple someone without resource cost involved
                >thus its too powerful, i dont allow it.

                Hold Person isn't over powered because it costs a spell slot.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                And grappling isn't overpowered because it locks you down as well, while a caster can Hold Person and do other things afterwards.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >implying wrestling would work while in full armour

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          That's literally one of the core skills for knights. Including grappling while armed with two handed weapons.
          Though in GURPS I always preferred sweeping their legs and then doing a finisher strike. It's much faster than going for full grapple. But you rarely can kill people that fast in D&D without being a charger build.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        Not without multi attack you won't

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >um
      >roll check
      >check
      >aoo check
      >roll check
      >strength check
      Sounds like tedious gayry to wish away the reality that someone can be muffled and restrained at the same time. The more checks you put in there, the more obvious it is that you don't want the player to succeed

  4. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    According to the grappling rules. Why would it be a big deal? Do you think I'm emotionally invested in every random NPC?

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Well done anon. Just keep in mind though that some DMs are.

  5. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    > "Well played, anon, well played"

  6. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >As the GM, how would you rule this situation?
    Id ask you to reread the grappling rules, he'd need to be restrained for that. Hes grappled though so good job, he cant... move i guess?

  7. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    A caster getting gagged is like a martial getting disarmed.
    If you let it happen, and you have no backup options, you deserve whatever comes next.

  8. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >sorry anon, but you can grapple someone without resource cost involved
    >thus its too powerful, i dont allow it.

  9. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Still spell and silent spell feats

  10. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >how should I play out a martial that has literally grappled a caster
    >with a fist cover their mouth and presumably enough leverage to hurt them really badly at a moment's notice
    I'm not sure I understand the question. Are you implying there are GMs that will tell the martial he can't do that?

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >Are you implying there are GMs that will tell the martial he can't do that?
      Yes, because casters will whine at any inconvenience.
      But honestly if you're a caster and let yourself get grappled while having no options in such a scenario, you fucking deserve it.

      "Alright, Mr Martial. You can either grapple the caster and stop him from moving, or cover his mouth. But then he will be able to move. Okay, so you cover his mouth. Caster failed the check. Caster, you can either make a contested strength roll to free your mouth, or move out of the fighters combat range to speak and cast again. He gets an attack of opportunity for that. You also may roll a D20. If you hit 10 or above, you manage to mumble into the gauntlet and the spell still takes effect."

      There you go.

      Caster should have to make a concentration check, no? Or did 5e get rid of those too.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >Or did 5e get rid of those too
        It has them but they're only triggered by taking damage

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          Yet more reasons to dislike 5e I guess
          Even 3.PF, infamous for caster supremacy, has better concentration check rules

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >get to level 6
            >concentration modifier is (if you're not retarded) so high that you literally can't fail unless they deal enough damage to kill you anyway
            yeah real good rule there

  11. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >how would you
    I wouldn't, because none of my settings have "wizards."

  12. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Champ this is a magical girl game, leather club's two blocks down.

  13. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    I played a vanara monk. Last fight of the campaign was a lich. We had already dealt with the phylactery, said lich died with his face in a monkey's armpit

  14. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Is he in range? Does he have an action?
    How would you prefer to refute his turn?
    I’d prolly cost him his standard to grapple and quick to shore up the choke, no role on the latter.

  15. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    In The Dark Eye, spells have a verbal and a motion component. For every 4 points you put into a spell you can use a spell modification at a cost of -1 on your roll. Two possible spell modifications are "silent" and "motionless", so the caster can cast spells that he knows well enough, but he gets mali for the casting process. Also he needs to pass a self-control check to see if he manages to cast while being physically attacked.

  16. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Sounds fine to me. I play Pre-Greyhawk OD&D, so there’s no stupid “melee spells” (shocking Grasp, etc) to be rendered useless by this strategy.

  17. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >mot wearing an amulet of gauntlet immunity
    amateur mistake.

  18. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    We're playing 5E bitches, grapple can't do that. If the rules don't say you can do it then it is physically impossible. Show me the gag skill on your character sheet!

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      You'll be gagging on my dick in a few minutes.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      That has never been how D&D works.

  19. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    It'll require two attack actions and two successful grapple checks (one to initiate the grapple and one to pin - without the pin he's still able to speak) but if that succeeds then, yeah, wizard boy is fucked. Shit's literally in the rules bro.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >5e
      Grapple a rope

  20. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Man, my DM was Chad enough that when my loxodon barb got into melee with a spellcaster, he let me grab his arms to stop somatics and grab him by the throat with my trunk to stop vocal, and he just kinda accepted that guy was fucked without giving me trouble over it.
    Can't wait for that guy to start up a game again

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Man, I'd love to play with an umpire who let me walk the bases after missing two swings and getting a foul.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >missing two swings and getting a foul.
        In this case, what, "Making the wrong class, picking a weird species, and daring to assault a perfect, unimpeachable spellcaster who may never ever come to harm"?

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          No, being allowed to do something that isn't in the rules due to some arbitrary decision.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Taking a shit isn't in the rules so I guess your character's bowels fucking explode with all of the backed up shit you're full of.

            • 2 months ago
              Anonymous

              No, there isn't anything written mechanically that people produce waste, so your false equivalency doesn't work.

  21. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Ah, this reminds me of a dark heresy game I ran years back. I'll skip the boring parts and get right to the fun bits.
    >the party is a collection of interesting inquisitorial acolytes under a eccentric inquisitor, but for us, only a vostroyan guardsman that carries huge quantities of explosives is important
    >the party and the inquisitor have acquired a pair of identical and probably possessed melta guns
    >the inquisitor gets a genius idea: use a possessed melta pistol to shoot at the other possessed melta pistol
    >so he arranges just that
    >the crew is called up and lines up in good firing positions, the vostroyan prepares demolition charges in case he needs to throw them or collapse the passage, the inquisitor places himself in a good observation port and a servitor goes forwards to shoot the melta gun and the other melta gun
    >the trigger is pulled and, to noones surprise something bad happens
    >a fucking lord of change claws its way out of the warprift before it closes
    >the party immediately opens up, full auto shotguns, autocannon tier automatic snipers, lasguns, hellguns, bombs, it all goes downrange at the LoC, but fails to kill him
    >for some reason, the LoC tries teleporting the acolytes away, but the gunfire proves a bit too powerful, forcing the LoC to bend the knees to avoid being tipped over and ends up kneeling, while only person that gets teleported - the vostroyan guardsman
    >and where is he teleported to?
    >to just below the LoC (halfway up his thighs into the ship floor) and he manages to not pass out
    >the firing continues, tho it misses the vostroyan and when his turn comes i ask him what he wants to do
    >i look up, is there an asshole
    >i pause for a bit and think
    >then i decide to not think and flip a coin
    >"There is an asshole."
    >"Can I shove explosives up it?"
    >So this legless vostroyan guardsman takes a primed demo charge and shoves it up a anus of a LoC and destroys his own arm and the LoC's prostate

  22. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >As the GM, how would you rule this situation?
    Note the player's decision, roll initiative for the round (with modifiers for distance, spellcasting etc), the winner's declared action goes off first.
    If the martial makes it, he makes it.

  23. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >As the GM, how would you rule this situation?
    Why would I have to? D&D has lots of rules for this very situation. This doesn't appear to be an edge case I have to make any decisions over.
    What is the question behind this question, anon? What do you mean?

  24. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Lie and give the wizard some non-verbal spells?

  25. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    The dice speak. It goes how it goes, for good or bad.

  26. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    The wizard can have a wand up his sleeve for precisely such an occasion. The wand has 2 or 3 spells, could be a nice reward after as well. Now the fighter has to either shut the wizards trap or get the want in place.

  27. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    "I take my secret to the grave, because my ancestors are smiling at me, filthy martial."

  28. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    All the casterfags here trying to have the DM crutch casters to make it ~~*balanced*~~
    Logically, the scenario would play out with the warrior winning.

    Personally, I've played two handed warriors in games like Skyrim. With balance mods, casters can definitely kill you from a distance, so there's nothing better than getting the drop on them, sprinting up and caving their skull in before they can even muster a spell.
    It's the obvious, obvious downside of wizards and the reason why buff dudes who swing heavy are still gratifying to play

    I get you want to make a challenge for your players, but let them have this one. Next time, have them fight a different type of monster caster, or someone with nonsomatic spells

  29. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    ok, that will take two contested contested grapple checks. one to grapple, one to silence. which means it will require two actions.

  30. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    RAW. Leave the door open to skip the boss.

  31. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    If he's the boss and the fight would end up boring and anticlimactic, I'd pull out some bullshit like enchanted gear he made that expends itself to save his life somehow just this once. If they get to him again, sure fine. But by then the tension has gone up and they're excited to win thru adversity.
    Because I'm here to make fights fun, not fair.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >I'd pull out some bullshit like enchanted gear he made that expends itself to save his life somehow just this once
      If I manage to grapple a powerful enemy caster, and then the DM on the spot visibly starts making some shit up about "Uh, he has anti-grapple enchanted gear!", I think I would just leave that table.
      Would make it pretty clear any success on our part would have to, at best, be arbitrarily earned depending on how the DM feels about it. And at worst is impossible because the DM is a railroading fuckwit.

  32. 2 months ago
    DJ Foxy

    This is what martial classes are for. Any GM that thinks otherwise is a moron.

  33. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >As the GM, how would you rule this situation?
    "No, that's not how grappling works. Fucking read the rules retard."

  34. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    ITT: RAW fags getting butthurt by glorious RAF chads

  35. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    I would not sperg out and scream. "NO YOU CANT DO THAT! I PLANNED THIS ENCOUNTER TO TAKE UP THE ENTIRE SESSION AND SPENT TWO DAYS PLANNING IT! I WONT LET YOU WAST ALL MY EFFORT BY INSTAKILLING A REALLY CLEVER MAGE END BOSS!"
    I would also not insist we restart the encounter, killing off the warrior in the first turn with a no save Death Spell, like a DM I used to play with once did.

  36. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >caster is a druid
    >responds by wild shaping into a dire porcupine
    Gonna need a reflex save to see if you manage to let go of him quickly enough to avoid getting turned into a pincusion. An an unrelated note, is there anything on your character sheet that specifies that he's wearing a metal codpiece?

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      My barbarian rage just means the needles give me an erection

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        Anon, I don't think that's going to work very well when you have multiple puncture wounds in your dick.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          >trying to apply sense to Rage
          >reduces damage from a battle axe to the neck
          >gives you a spidey sense
          >lets you survive falls from terminal velocity
          >keep fighting at 0hp

          >b-but your dick! the needles!
          Don't give me that pussy shit anon.

  37. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    If he actually managed to get a grapple and a gag on a competent wizard in my game? Well fuck, mate, you earned it, throatfuck that bitch.

  38. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >I'm asking how you, as a GM, would play this out.
    By informing the grappler's player that the game doesn't work that way. It isn't possible to gag the target via grapple, same as it isn't possible to break their fingers, gouge their eyes, crush their balls etc. There are systems that support such things, but we aren't playing one.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      The squat is like a moron. It's a racial slur. We have a clay hut living savage moron and a Wakanda forever techno armored moron. Both are going to be called morons by other people.

  39. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Play it as you should, the player got the better of you, he played smart and should get rewarded for it. GMs who always have to be the smartest person at the table are miserable to play with.

  40. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    If there's nothing on the wizard's sheet that stops this, he dead. Oh well. A lot of my villains die in somewhat anticlimactic ways like this.
    The last guy crit failed a defense and then his save versus kncokdown (Failure by 5 or more knocks you out cold and not just down,) from a sword to the throat and just gurgled and fell over.
    Sometimes that how it do be.

  41. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Grog, the wizards buff manly 'friend' walks in and charges at the warrior for wrestling HIS man and property.

  42. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    I would rule it that the Wizard must succeed a check against the Warrior on his turn before he can cast spells. Constitution/Endurance, something like that vs. the Warrior's strength/body score.

    If the Wizard succeeds he is barely able to utter the incantation through choked croaks. On a failure his windpipe is crushed shut and he can't speak.

    Seems fair.

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