They added a lot of quality of life improvements, from improved aesetics including making areas look more unique. It's way harder to get lost in the ps1 games. And omg, being able to see the spell descriptions helped so much. I did a SMT playthrough and had no idea what 1/2 of the spells did.
Is it seriously the same artist? It's like night and day. Left is more grounded with more realistic proportions, and right is more anime and child like. See how much more narrow his shoulders are?
Yes, it's the same artist. Note that on the left it's colored by the same artist as the lineart, but on the right coloring/shading is done by a different one.
I mean, that makes sense. Even in manga industry coloring/shading/backgrounds/etc is rarely done by mangaka in order to save time. No way Kaneko would have time to do all that shit after Atlus became bigger company.
>GS: Your designs seem to have become more cold and stoic over the years. Why has that happened? >KK: Well before it reaches final CG stage, it's not just me that works on it. I do the original illustration, but sometimes there are other inkers, and texture mappers and things like that. This all comes together, hopefully forming the full character. And of course at the beginning, I have to draw in such a way that other people can work on it. I think it has to do with how it's created, really. >GS: What is your approach to character design? >KK: I'm involved in the process from the very beginning, figuring out the scenario and all that. I already know in my head what kinds of characters they'll be, like this guy has a short temper, this guy gets picked on all the time, and from there, the properties of each character are set. Then I think about their backstory �" what kind of life they lead that made them the way they are. Once that's established, if this guy is cool, he might dress in black, leather, with spikes, like you for example. >GS: Do you still use traditional art media, or just computers? >KK: Well first I draw it with pencil, largely, then I scan it and it's scanned into the computer. They do the painting there…I mostly just focus on the line drawings. Atlus is working on the next game, and I'm mostly involved in scenario work, there.
Kaneko started off coloring by himself, then Soejima took on that job, then Shiraishi, who stayed the colorist until Kaneko retired.
Look in bottom right corner in picrelated - there are small signatures from Kaneko and Shiraishi.
I think his modern style is pretty cool, and like you said, stylized. It's true that his earlier work is more derivative, but...it really does just look really fricking cool.
Me too, it's absolutely perfect. I don't mind Kaneko's newer designs, hell even Doi's SMTV designs look good. But, it's not quite the same, so earlier SMT definitely has a distinctive feel.
Why are they like that with those games? I think they're fricking fantastic, and I know other people would love them too. First person dungeon crawling really isn't super tough, and early SMT games aren't brutally hard or anything. Actually, I think they might be some of the easier games in the series; it's a great jumping off point for people to dive into the games.
For the stat thing, lemme help with what I remember:
Luck is useful for running away and getting pre-emptive fights, but not for crits. Crits are tied to Agility, but the formula's borked so it's not a flat increase if you keep pumping it every level. Try to go for about once in every five levels. Strength is good, but a lot of, if not all, of the physical skills scale off of Vitality, so you should be leveling that up with Strength the most. Physical builds accel, but some magic, like Magma Axis, and, much earlier earned, Tornado, can be pretty good too.
In terms of general tips, just in case this is your first SMT game, or for anyone reading who might be interested in the series: >Use buffs and debuffs. You'll want both, because the enemy can sometimes dispel all of the buffs, debuffs, or even both. Buffs stack up to 4 times, and are incredibly helpful. >Don't be afraid to fuse new demons. You generally won't be using the same demons for any large stretch of the games, so if some are lagging behind, it's recommended to fuse some new ones in order to pass their useful skills onto even stronger demons. >Don't try to out grind everything. It's one thing to grind until the next level so you can learn a skill on a demon or your main character if it's a game like Nocturne or 4, but generally speaking, a strong game plan and a good team of demons is way more valuable than just leveling up.
I like the newer combat systems but the actual dungeon crawling in the early games is great. I'd personally love if they did another one like SJ, even if the setting was more like a standard Megaten game.
I'd take an abstract combat system and first person crawling since it feels very close to tabletop rpg roots over less abstract people standing around and elaborate spell casting animations. That's not a step up, it's a step backwards. In my mind battles should be either complete abstractions, or they should be real time or mostly real time. I never pictured the characters in turn based battle just standing there like idiots, they were moving around and fighting like you'd see in a real fight, it just wasn't showing every singel thing and leaving it up to your minds.
Heh. I'd make some games in the SMT mold, but with a lot of ideas from Wizardry as well as things like skills and more classes. And then after a few first person games try to make something 3D.
I think the PS1 versions are peak aesthetic.
They added a lot of quality of life improvements, from improved aesetics including making areas look more unique. It's way harder to get lost in the ps1 games. And omg, being able to see the spell descriptions helped so much. I did a SMT playthrough and had no idea what 1/2 of the spells did.
Was never gonna happen. Couldn't stop Kaneko from ruining his own designs
Is it seriously the same artist? It's like night and day. Left is more grounded with more realistic proportions, and right is more anime and child like. See how much more narrow his shoulders are?
explain
Yes, it's the same artist. Note that on the left it's colored by the same artist as the lineart, but on the right coloring/shading is done by a different one.
>on the right coloring/shading is done by a different one
shit, I thought everything was done by Kaneko himself
I mean, that makes sense. Even in manga industry coloring/shading/backgrounds/etc is rarely done by mangaka in order to save time. No way Kaneko would have time to do all that shit after Atlus became bigger company.
https://gamasutra.com/view/news/9291/E3_QA_Atlus_SMT_Character_Designer_Kazuma_Kaneko.php
>GS: Your designs seem to have become more cold and stoic over the years. Why has that happened?
>KK: Well before it reaches final CG stage, it's not just me that works on it. I do the original illustration, but sometimes there are other inkers, and texture mappers and things like that. This all comes together, hopefully forming the full character. And of course at the beginning, I have to draw in such a way that other people can work on it. I think it has to do with how it's created, really.
>GS: What is your approach to character design?
>KK: I'm involved in the process from the very beginning, figuring out the scenario and all that. I already know in my head what kinds of characters they'll be, like this guy has a short temper, this guy gets picked on all the time, and from there, the properties of each character are set. Then I think about their backstory �" what kind of life they lead that made them the way they are. Once that's established, if this guy is cool, he might dress in black, leather, with spikes, like you for example.
>GS: Do you still use traditional art media, or just computers?
>KK: Well first I draw it with pencil, largely, then I scan it and it's scanned into the computer. They do the painting there…I mostly just focus on the line drawings. Atlus is working on the next game, and I'm mostly involved in scenario work, there.
Kaneko started off coloring by himself, then Soejima took on that job, then Shiraishi, who stayed the colorist until Kaneko retired.
Look in bottom right corner in picrelated - there are small signatures from Kaneko and Shiraishi.
>ruining
Kaneko's modern style is one of a kind and distinctive. His old art style looks like plenty of 80s anime.
I think his modern style is pretty cool, and like you said, stylized. It's true that his earlier work is more derivative, but...it really does just look really fricking cool.
Er, you said one of a kind, not stylized, sorry about that. It's definitely both, though.
You see but that art-style and character design wouldn't turn impressionable kids into trannies, so why would it get funding?
90's anime art is comfy
90's is dogshit, you meant 80's
>90's is dogshit
Me too, it's absolutely perfect. I don't mind Kaneko's newer designs, hell even Doi's SMTV designs look good. But, it's not quite the same, so earlier SMT definitely has a distinctive feel.
It saddens me that Atlus is fine with never bringing SMT1 and 2 to modern platforms
Why are they like that with those games? I think they're fricking fantastic, and I know other people would love them too. First person dungeon crawling really isn't super tough, and early SMT games aren't brutally hard or anything. Actually, I think they might be some of the easier games in the series; it's a great jumping off point for people to dive into the games.
I'm starting my playthrough on the HD port of Nocturne, anyone have any pointers and or that image with why some stats are broken
For the stat thing, lemme help with what I remember:
Luck is useful for running away and getting pre-emptive fights, but not for crits. Crits are tied to Agility, but the formula's borked so it's not a flat increase if you keep pumping it every level. Try to go for about once in every five levels. Strength is good, but a lot of, if not all, of the physical skills scale off of Vitality, so you should be leveling that up with Strength the most. Physical builds accel, but some magic, like Magma Axis, and, much earlier earned, Tornado, can be pretty good too.
Great, I really appreciate it
In terms of general tips, just in case this is your first SMT game, or for anyone reading who might be interested in the series:
>Use buffs and debuffs. You'll want both, because the enemy can sometimes dispel all of the buffs, debuffs, or even both. Buffs stack up to 4 times, and are incredibly helpful.
>Don't be afraid to fuse new demons. You generally won't be using the same demons for any large stretch of the games, so if some are lagging behind, it's recommended to fuse some new ones in order to pass their useful skills onto even stronger demons.
>Don't try to out grind everything. It's one thing to grind until the next level so you can learn a skill on a demon or your main character if it's a game like Nocturne or 4, but generally speaking, a strong game plan and a good team of demons is way more valuable than just leveling up.
It's a damn good thing they don't play like that anymore.
I like the newer combat systems but the actual dungeon crawling in the early games is great. I'd personally love if they did another one like SJ, even if the setting was more like a standard Megaten game.
I'd take an abstract combat system and first person crawling since it feels very close to tabletop rpg roots over less abstract people standing around and elaborate spell casting animations. That's not a step up, it's a step backwards. In my mind battles should be either complete abstractions, or they should be real time or mostly real time. I never pictured the characters in turn based battle just standing there like idiots, they were moving around and fighting like you'd see in a real fight, it just wasn't showing every singel thing and leaving it up to your minds.
Yeah they did. It was called Strange Journey and none of you frickers bought it.
I was young at the time! I didn't know!
same. That mix of tech and occult/magic was awesome. now it's just 100% magical shit.
anon you could make a spiritual successor using gamemaker!
you'll be a thousandnaire!
MAYBE I WILL
do it!! become a BIGSHOT
Heh. I'd make some games in the SMT mold, but with a lot of ideas from Wizardry as well as things like skills and more classes. And then after a few first person games try to make something 3D.
Surprisingly nice thread.