If you think weapon durability is inherently a bad mechanic, you are an npc and a hoarder.
 |
 Tip Your Landlord Shirt $21.68 |
|
If you think weapon durability is inherently a bad mechanic, you are an npc and a hoarder.
If you think weapon durability is inherently a bad mechanic, you are an npc and a hoarder.
|
Tip Your Landlord Shirt $21.68 |
|
but i love hoarding
we're rich!
MUSHROOM!
MUSHROOM
More games need weapon durability, including armor and clothes.
>armor and clothes
shit I had to contain my erection the first time I played Soul Calibur IV with a friend. This is way more immersive than any bawd armor or nudepatch
good 'I can't believe its not porn' game
what game
>we won't get playable zelda with tearable sheikah clothes
Sucks.
>dude just stop criticizing anything
>just consume product
Unless this shit blows the roof off the board and beyond I'm voting with my wallet on this one. Nintendo needs to learn they don't get to charge sequel prices for a game thats 75% recycled content.
One round-eye dog not buying TV game softo isn’t gonna scare them.
then why do you care?
and you're some aggressively submissive cuck who bends over and hopes they lube up. Don't get mad when others are not some delusional gay and actually cares more than mere brand and ego. Nintendo nor any other company cares if you live or die but yet your kind worships them.
I'd vote with my wallet, but I never wanted Nintendo's shitty underpowered console. Like I did with most of their exclusives that looked good to me so far, I'll play it on PC, if not on release then whenever any major emulation bugs are dealt with.
Frick them for not releasing a console capable of running games that barely look better than PS3 titles at least 1080p60. If they don't want my money I'm happy to pirate.
durability is a mechanic.
just like diversity, it is neither good nor bad. it simply is a concept.
is durability a well used mechanic? most of the time, no.
Nah "diversity" is bad for white people.
diversity is bad to any ethnically homogeneous society, not only whites. They are also trying to bring Blacks to Japan, you know.
>They are also trying to bring Blacks to Japan, you know
That's not diversity though.
hetereogeneity in population is diversity, though.
then why don't the racist bigots at israel open their borders?
sounds like they don't want diversity.
I dunno for all the b***hing around here I’ve never felt like it ever did shit to me
I don’t self insert though
Bad analogy because diversity is inherently bad for working people as imported labor is used to put downward pressure on wages and dilute thr labor market
Diversity and weapon durability are universally terrible.
Like how morons missed the point.
welcome to Ganker
Durability is not a mechanic, no more than punching is a mechanic. It is the skin that covers a mechanic.
It's to make exploration a key part of the game through out.
Take fallout 3: You can get a kick ass shotgun early on, but you cant maintain it for a long time ahead, its special to use it and finding another to fix the old one feels good.
Now take fallout 4, if you get lucky, you can get an OP legendary that never brakes and you can use that game until the credits roll. There's no real reason to explore outside of sight seeing.
Durablilty is part of the base game concept.
BotW did the same
>your gun has broken!
such horseshit
just make it start to jam after 500 rounds and start to explode after 1000 unless you clean it.
just make it like real life, give weapons stats. Some guns that are brand new will jam after a few shots for reasons unknown, others will fire reliably even after being dug out of a swamp.
As far as I remember, they did a half-ass thing, where reloads just take a little longer a low durability, because Bethesda always half-asses it.
Far cry figured this shit out in what, 2004? 2009?
Monster Hunter has the best durability system for action games.
Fire Emblem has a good durability system for strategy games.
Breath of the Wild has a shit durability system that has a negative feedback loop with combat that drains the fun out of the game.
>padding is good!
go away
A tree branch should have durability, the super epic spear of destiny should not.
>get Jury Rigging
>use tree branch to fix super epic spear of destiny
>get jury rigging
>use super epic spear of destiny to fix tree branch
Having swords break in 3 hits just makes loot feel worthless.
they don't break in 3 hits, most of the powerful swords in the game last for a decent amount of time, and later on you can get Durability+ affixes on them, which makes them last even longer
Not to mention the fully upgraded Master Sword lasts so long between charges that most weapons become obsolete once you get it, I wouldnt expect Ganker to know about that though, since you have to be good at the game to acquire it
>It gets better 30 hours in
Not an argument.
>most of the powerful swords in the game last for a decent amount of time
The absolute MOST durable weapon (aside from the master sword) gets 80 swings while enchanted.
Fully upgraded Master Sword has to be paid to get
>since you have to pay for dlc to have it
Ftfy
>Not to mention the fully upgraded Master Sword lasts so long between charges that most weapons become obsolete once you get it
You mean the sword I get after I'm done with 99% of the game? What a joke.
You get it after the first of four divine beasts. You still have 75% of the game left.
>You get it after the first divine beast
>After doing every other dungeon because the divine beasts are shitty "dungeons"
>So really you have 4 left
No sword in BoTW breaks in three hits
>literally interprets everything exactly
>heh
That wasn’t the point god you fricking semantic fangays can’t ever defend this shit without being dishonest as frick. Frick off.
>Having swords break in 3 hits
>defend this shit without being dishonest
there was morrowind
I read if you glitch yourself into nigh-infinite strength and smash something into fricking atoms the usually tanky durability just shits itself
Funny you should bring that up when a Nickies thread was just posted.
>
>makes loot feel worthless.
Actually it makes look feel more worthwhile. Why would I care about a new weapon when I already have a much stronger one
Because your strong weapon will break in the next fight.
I feel like shooters solved this gameplay problem already by providing you with more ammo whenever you defeated enemies.
Item management in the middle of melee combat feels god-awful, it's a wonder that enormous studios can get away with it (not just nintendo)
In a good game, they'd do this by giving different weapons unique movesets or abilities.
>Actually it makes look feel more worthwhile that the things you get break easy
You people are insane.
It doesn't make it feel worthless. It is worthless.
No
EXACTLY
Good thing no sword breaks in 3 hits then?
It's not worthless. It's worth 3 hits, kek.
That said, it's the reason why I don't play BoTW.
I won't be playing ToTK either.
I literally don't care about anything else except for weapon durability. It ruined it.
i dont
i think botw has a terribly implemented durability system that punishes you for fighting
In a good title it's a good mechanic to have early-game that should become irrelevant later on as you gain experience or better equipment. For example REmake 4 gives you Krausers knife, then you can unlock the infinite knife. BoTW should have been similar, with The Master Sword being unbreakable.
But it wasn't. If you're not going to add depth to the mechanic then just give an option to turn it off or on.
>BoTW should have been similar, with The Master Sword being unbreakable.
That's literally the worst option possible, making a mechanic just entirely irrelevant over time. Kind of the issue with a lot of proposed changes for BotW, it often just turns into remove what makes it unique and make it more lie the old games. OoT6 isn't the solution when people were really done with the format by OoT4.
>its a pain to get another as good as it
You stock up on them fairly quickly late game, to the point where arguably you have too many and really needed some storage. Random enemies being a waste of a weapon did become a real issue but it seems like fuse is as much about making stocking up on enemy parts actually worthwhile.
>That's literally the worst option possible, making a mechanic just entirely irrelevant over time
>You stock up on them fairly quickly late game
Do you listen to yourself talk? You're constantly contradicting yourself to defend a shit mechanic
That's not a contradiction, you'll stock up on different powerful weapons. There's still a choice of what to use. You may not want to waste a elemental weapon on trash enemies, but you still have a selection of good weapons to use. This means you still vary up what you play with rather than just becoming Mastersword only.
Its pretty shit criticism then cause you're not actually trying to make BotW style better at its goals. You're just pretending that OoT6 is what everyone wanted, when by TP the style was already tired.
>Its pretty shit criticism then cause you're not actually trying to make BotW style better at its goals. You're just pretending that OoT6 is what everyone wanted, when by TP the style was already tired.
What killed TP was the pacing, everyone wanted to keep going with the metroidvania adventures as Link but no one wanted to play Link's life simulator.
Hell, the old Legend of Zelda games mostly told their stories through their dungeons, but BoTW activelly encourages the uses of glitches to sequence break or to finish the game ASAP since the only unique part is the overworld
I swear that copying Skyrim and having voiced cutscenes beyond those nonsensical Hylian noises are the only reasons for BoTW popularity, despite the writing being almost as good as Ocarina of Time
>OoT OoT OoT
Obsess much? I just like my Zelda's without shitty mechanics like weapon durability.
>you're not actually trying to make BotW style better
It's shit. Unsalvagable.
>it often just turns into remove what makes it unique and make it more lie the old games
Yes? I don't like the BoTW direction. I had way more fun with the Links Awakening remake than I did BoTW. This is also why I mentioned an option to turn durability off or on so that way the player has a choice. Those who want it “unique” as you put it can have that, and those that want a Zelda title can have no durability. Everyone is happy.
>Everyone is happy.
Nah, for everyone to have been happy BotW needed to be a new IP and for them to make an actual Zelda game.
>BotW needed to be a new IP
You're not wrong. In an era of endless remakes, remasters, and sequels, a new IP would be nice.
Krauser's knife does more damage so it stays relevant.
It's unbreakable late game though. One of the strongest swords in the game too.
Except durability as it used in BOTW encourages hoarding? By end game you get weapons that completely outclass anything you will pick up from fighting enemies so you are encouraged to avoid combat with them and save your good weapons for the real fights with bosses.
>Go through dungeon with a rusted bullshit sword
>Kill the boss
>Rewarded with the legendary sword with fire elemental
>Use it once and it's already broken
What the frick is the point. I'm not even saying degradation is bad. But why does it need to shatter after being used just a few times? Why can't I repair it? If there was a repair system in game and if the degradation rate was reduced heavily I wouldn't complain. But as it is it's just a bullshit system to pad play time. If they wanted to do it right they'd create a system where degradation is faster if you use the wrong weapon on the wrong enemy. But otherwise degradation is minimal.
>Defending BoTW combat
Yeah, those lynels sure were tough once. Then people stopped huffing paint and overcame the shin high bar.
Nintendo has always been an all ages, inclusive puzzle company. They aren't going to make something that comes close to hard.
I've seen OoT's water temple filter a lot of normalgays, just MM's tutorial was enough filter even more
The law is so vague that techically speaking even saving the game could be considering modding the game files, therefore potentially making illegal.
I had no idea but Japanese laws are irrelevant to me. Get off your lazy asses and go tweak what you don't like about the game. Pausing over and over mid combat is not fun.
Monster hunter is the only game to ever make durability interesting
Anon, have you even played Hakoniwa Explorer Plus?
Great game, needs a sequel.
They're so different they don't even compare. In fact it's not even durability, it's "sharpness" and it works because you make interesting decisions with multiple systems.
If your weapon is too dull for a monsters threshold, you still do damage but your weapon bounces off and you don't get to do smooth combos. Do you:
-build ultra sharp weapons that need resharpening frequently mid-fight?
-build balanced weapons that just barely meet a threshold or work on a vulnerable part of the body?
-build armor sets and gems that enhance your sharpness at the loss of other potential
Armor bonuses?
-do all of the above but alternate your setup depending on the hunt?
-do a lazy build that just barely works on everything but does nothing well?
What about Fire Emblem
Fire Emblem's durability system is effective as it makes you think about your loadout for any given chapter.
How many funds are you willing to allocate to your troops? Do you afford more powerful weapons to an MVP, do you need to make sure everyone has at least a baseline affordable weapon that should last them the battle and ensure their survival?
The games are typically played chapter by chapter with limited opportunities to grind or farm resources to make later play easier, so there's a balance that the developers put in place.
fire emblem's durability is shit for the same reason I already explained. I went the entire game using only steel weapons and then got the tine final level with a bunch of hero swords and boltings in my stash that I never got a chance to use because I was saving them for a time when I would need them that never came.
>If you think weapon durability is inherenty a bad mechanic you are a hoarder
>Players are forced to hoard weapons due the whole "weapon breaking mid-combat"
I used cheats to turn it off, maybe you shouldn't let Nintendo cuck your experience and do some Googling. It never bothered me on my first playthrough, but I prefer the game without using my D-pad to pause every single fight It's called having options and Nintendo is terrible at them unless you seek it out yourself.
This, unless you have a recent Switch and a shitty computer there's no reason to deal with durability anymore.
Oh, so that's why modding games is illegal in Japan, huh?
I don't think that counts as a mod but the mods are pretty cool too. Wtf are you people doing playing Vanilla BotW? b***hing, apparently.
I would never stoop so low as to cheat at a Zelda game. I don't know how you value yourself, but this kind of shit is something I wouldn't admit to ever, not even here. Whatever shitty justification you might pull out of your ass, a cheat is a cheat.
Dude just eat around the shit
Item durability is a hassle only autists want in their games. Unless there's meaningful smithing gameplay involved in creating or patching shit back up then it can frick off. Also, having the main character in a game being able to become a god tier smith on the side, frick right off with that shit, give us an entourage that we can take control of to deal with that sort of thing, even poorgay Gallowglass warriors IRL had someone to take care of this.
I think its pretty funny, you guys have so little to actually criticize with the game that you stick to weapon durability which is a complete non issue when you can get multiple copies of every weapon in seconds
>You guys
Who? It's a big issue in the game that's making people less excited for the sequel. And the answer in the sequel isn't that good of an answer either.
Its a non issue thats been completely overblown. You can get multiple copies of any weapon in the game, the durability is only an issue for unique weapons
It was never an issue, there's never been a single moment while playing BotW where I said "oh shit I'm out of weapons"
This, so why do idiots complain about it so vehemently
>>Why do you hate durability are you some kind of hoarder?
When did I ever say this?
>I'm expected to pick up and make the weapon 5 times as rare as a drop
This is an incredibly stupid idea, I would hope that youve played enough videogames to understand why low drop rates on necessary equipment are bad. I do agree that there should be a way to repair weapons but the durability itself is not the problem. Also its not bad game design just because you dont like it, I very much enjoyed collecting and using new weapons constantly
>why do idiots complain about it
autism and/or OCD. its the same kind of psychology behind why people don’t use megalixirs until the final boss
Low durability is literally the problem. If weapons didn't break after like 3 fights nobody would care. Nothing more frustrating than getting to an enemy you know how to defeat but you can't because you don't have enough weapons to do the mechanic. Killing shrine guardian is trivial until you realize you don't have enough shield durability. It's a bullshit mechanic to increase play time. Simple as. And I know you didn't say it. But it's two contradictory points made by people defending durability.
Ok if the problem is low durability, then what is the issue with the solution Totk provided.
>nooo my favorite sword will have a stupid rock stuck to the end of it
Whos to say they dont allow some sort of transmog feature that allows the weapon to stay the same visually? Maybe a unique mineral
If durability doesn't matter because you always have a hoard of weapons then why have durability at all? It just turns the game into inventory item management simulator. That, or you don't bother with combat since you get nothing out of it.
I ran out once, right at the start of the game, and only because it was master mode.
I just bombed the enemies to death and then never ran out again.
Wow almost like it wasn’t necessary at all but hey let’s make everyone menu during action just because. Let’s balance the whole game around it too so rewards never matter and you’re punished for engaging in combat in your open world game with no endgame. Notice how nobody is begging Nintendo for durability on armor. They could easily put it in. Funny how they don’t have turning off this shit mechanic in the menu.
The durability system is objectively terrible, time wasting, and makes everything you pick up turn into shit. I could design 10 different weapon systems that limit them in a way that is better than “steel claymore shattered into pieces on this chuchu” I’m a game that has fricking sound and temperature meters and no climbing when wet. How do fricking people not realize how un immersive that is???
>Notice how nobody is begging Nintendo for durability on armor
Now that you mention it: Oh durabilitygays in this thread, how would you feel if armour could only take 3 hits before turning to dust?
>if armour could only take 3 hits
I dunno why anyone would use a leaf as an armor, but you'd be able to hoard armor too so it'd be the same as the weapons.
I don't know what you're getting at here.
There's only a single set of every armor in the game. If there was a way to obtain the armor again like weapons it would be fine.
>Why do you hate durability are you some kind of hoarder?
>Durability is a non issue just hoard multiple copies of the same weapon
Are you moronic? Why don't they just make the one weapon have the combined durability of the 5 copies I'm expected to pick up and make the weapon 5 times as rare as a drop. Then give me a fricking npc that repairs broken weapons?
You don't need to do all of these mental gymnastics to defend bad game design. Christ.
because they decided to make the map fricking gigantic and didn’t want players to get bored because they went 5 minutes without finding something new. That’s the real issue with botw and open world games in general. how to fill a big world with stuff that is fun and unique
Koroc seeds, shrines, and just general world puzzles would solve that. Goblin camps holding rupees good be the reward for combat and those rupees could be used to power upgrades on weapons that would allow for different play styles.
>farm the same goblin camps x times just for 1 weapon upgrade
I swear you people dont play videogames
>The same
Why would I farm the same one when I could take my reward and go to a harder one? The reward shouldn't respawn. Just the enemies. Same as it is currently. Only difference is you don't get a useless weapon that breaks after 2 fights.
Whichever one is the strongest one will be the most efficient
Rewards are a part of game design. Progress towards what? If youre not being rewarded for your work then you wont be progressing towards shit. Unless you think a giant sandbox where you just run around for no reason with no incentive to do so is fun and will keep players entertained for more than 5 minutes?
It's almost like putting Zelda in a sandbox was a mistake
>Rewards are a part of game design. Progress towards what?
Guy is actually asking for a skinner box, jesus christ. Remember when you used to do things because it was fun, or to see if you could?
If only they decided to put in a reward that mattered.
Put a korok seed in every enemy camp, make quests that ask you to clear out a camp in exchange for materials.
Every time you open a chest and it is a weapon you haven't gained anything, and quite possibly you've lost more than the weapon is worth.
Even if they just gave me rupees I wouldn't take issue with it since the reason you explore is to find shrines and fight things.
sounds like they play mobile games
>farm the same dragon scales x times for y
Wow, game of the century
people are already pissed off at the amount of korok seeds in the game. imagine if there were twice as many, plus the chests in shrines gave you korok seeds. add to that the fact that korok seeds would be even more useless than they already are since their only purpose is to let you carry more weapons.
Nintendo built the entire game around cycling through lots of weapons. You can’t just bypass that or the entire system falls apart
I can and I will. PC chads stay winning.
it really doesn't, I turned it off and it's more enjoyable.
Based, if the rest had any knowledge or willpower they'd already be experiencing the thing they want instead of whining on the internet.
>It's a non issue that has been completely overblown
>The durability is only an issue for...
I love arguments designed for self-sabotage
Unique weapons as in amiibo weapons which barely count as core gameplay. Otherwise there are no weapons in the game that you cant get multiple of. (You can even get multiple amiibo weapons, its just tedious)
I'm not a hoarder. I literally just want to use the Master Sword and Hylian Shield and nothing else.
goddamn what a shitty artstyle
the face in the first frame looks extremely ripped straight outta dragon ball
the third frame just really shows how terrible the artist is
it shouldn't degrade if you hit a fricking puzzle switch with it
the problem with weapon durability is that when your weapon breaks its a pain to get another as good as it. You can fight a group of enemies, but you'll end up objectively worse off because the fight takes more from you than what you gain.
It's not inherently bad, but the system they used in BOTW was terrible.
The weapons didn't last long enough, and there was no option to repair them, you just use them till they break.
A condition bar for the actual weapons would have been better, just have it do half damage when it's in bad condition. That way you can keep your favorite ones and repair them instead of having to hoard a bunch of copies.
I don't mind durability if you can repair your weapons or like in S.T.A.L.K.E.R. SoC, where they don't wear down too quick and can often get something better before your gun is crap.
which is worse?
>having to use dozens of short-lived items
>being rewarded with dozens of weapons that are completely worthless since their stats are worse than your current weapon
durability is a bandage on a much bigger design issue but I can see why nintendo did it. it allows every weapon reward to at least be theoretically useful, even as fodder against weaker enemies
Why reward weapons in the first place?
So what should be rewarded then dumbass?
Garbage reward, no reward, it makes no difference. You don't have to fight them anyway, and if you do, progress is its own reward. Stop turning video games into maintenance simulators.
Souls solved this over a decade ago by creating a shitload of unique movesets to accomodate lots of playstyles and builds, making finding those weapons interesting. Meanwhile in BOTW you have four movesets for 99% of the game (Club/Boomerang, Sword, Spear, and Great Sword) and a very rare few instances of something slightly different like Katanas
I don’t know? Maybe don’t design your shit weapons around beat stick stats and 3 basic weapon types??? Maybe have more charge up moves for the weapons?????
>I only use better number
This isn’t fricking Elden Ring you fricking morons it’s a sandbox game. People need to stop acting like balance mattered in this game at all, hearty food breaks the whole fricking game, but uh oh someone might enjoy playing with the weapons they enjoy. OH NO!
I just want them to show something that isn't the breath of the wild world but yellow and some floating rocks, it will likely be good when it comes out but this game so far has 0 identity thanks to the horrible marketing
>lets artificially prolong the game for no reason by forcing the player to hoard weapons that can break after 4 hits
such a dumb mechanic
it is one of those mechanics that if you remove it, the game becomes better immediately
it add nothing to the game and just makes is more tedious and less fun
same with stamina bars
I used to think this until I actually made the weapons unbreakable and all of a sudden it became really boring
That probably says more about BOTW's combat than the durability problem though
OP sucking wiener for all to see once again.
>I point out the option of just turning it off
>you people still at it
I think you're just here to argue.
>I think you're just here to argue.
What gave it away?
Needing more than 1 main weapon in a Zelda game is a flaw, durability in BOTW is a unnecessary padding mechanic that artificially extends playtime and adds nothing to the game, and the game designers know this and thats why they added it. It actually only takes away from the games progression keeping the player mostly in place. If you like this system, that's your perogative you can like what you like. I cannot take that away from you. But do not pretend a LIMITATION is a good feature, you're cucking yourself out of progression features, rather, you're enjoying being limited in a way that allows developers an easy lazy out to lengthen their game. And yes before you say it I'm aware of how fast you can beat the first botw in a speedrun, that's how the game is designed. in a proper playthrough this is pure outright padding.
This is not an opinion, this is not b***hing, this is not blind botw hate, there is no filtered. This is a game design facts, thanks for your time and actually bearing with your ADHD to actually read this BOTW cultists.
>But do not pretend a LIMITATION is a good feature
This line alone proves that you are an idiot. Should every game just have creative mode as the default state? You realize limitations are an integral part to game design, every game has limitations
That is a outright red herring fallacy. Having less or no limitations is not giving the player god mode or creative mode, that's called NORMAL FRICKING GAME DESIGN you no taste having, no standard having, casual wiimote flipping zoomer homosexual.
This shit started around the mid to late 2000's where instead of fricking making a normal game that uses level design, enemy design, and boss design to directly challenge the abilities afforded to the player character. They limit the players abilities, give them less control over the game, give them stamina, and in some cases strip away abilities (here comes the metroid false flag) to limit the players ability to go through the game. Do game devs have a good reason to do this nowadays? Yeah because making games now is far more complex than it used to be, but i'd rather play a shorter well designed game than a long padded out one thats made for people who enjoy getting cucked.
tl;dr this shit is not normal, normal game design is not god mode or creative mode, its normal game design made for the purpose of making a game fun. BOTW is not fun, there's your opinion for you to solely focus on instead of addressing my actual arguments since i know you wont read because zoomer phonegay ADHD.
Are you genuinely stupid or are you trolling. Before I go on I'd like you to provide some examples of these so called normally designed games that dont limit the player
Contra.
a lot of your woes are the fault of two to three games: minecraft, roblox, and gmod. they are endless games with limitless potential, well worth whatever price is paid for them long after they are paid for. and roblox is free, to my knowledge.
Are you okay?
I worry for you anon, I'm afraid the reddit withdrawals are getting too much for you.
Its a shit mechanic, but I don’t care anyway. I play on PC and just cheat to give myself infinite durability
Weapon durability isn't a bad mechanic, but it's only good when you can repair your weapons. In real life warriors didn't just pick up random weapons and used them until they broke, they use the same sword and keep repairing it because you learn how to use a specific weapon. I can buy a sword and learn to swing it around pretty good, but if I grab a slightly different sword I'm not gonna be as good at swinging it around as I would my old sword.
tl;dr weapon durability is gay unless you can care for your weapon and form a meaningful bond.
I'm glad TOTK looks like you can actually put older weapons to good use to increase durability and shit for your current weapons
If you make weapons invincible in BOTW you just immediately make 50% of exploring worthless because whatever weapon you find won't be better than what you have
You're explaining exactly why weapon durability is a shit mechanic made to pad out the game. The exploration was already pointless. The game could have been a 10th the size with better reasons to explore and with weapons actually worth a shit.
Actually no the games exploration is just worthless. Finding more weapons never feels progressive or meaningful after the first 20% of the game. It’s a terrible fricking system and they made the whole game around it.
Battlefields of all ages are littered with broken weapons. You can reshaft polearms or replace spear tips but there's so much you can do to a sword that got fricked up. A lot of bent swords were turned into dirks for example.
>if I grab a slightly different sword I'm not gonna be as good at swinging it around as I would my old sword.
If they're similar? No, not really. Even jumping from one oakeshott type to the other shouldn't be an issue for an experienced swordsman.
>In real life warriors didn't just pick up random weapons and used them until they broke
Nah you're fricking wrong mate, in a long battle swords get chipped and continually lose effectiveness. If you find a fresh one that cuts better, you use it, it will save your life.
>source: japanese bushido student commenting on american samurai movie
correct
Occasionally you might get foreign armies fighting each other with vastly different weapons, then it's just a soldier's instinct. Fricked up blade with a good balance? Fresher blade that feels weird? Think fast. When you cut someone, you want it to pierce, you want them to die
Most blades through history weigh a couple pounds, people figured out this shit and haven't changed it much, at least until gunpowder was viable and there was the evolving terco (third) formation: 1/3rd pike, 1/3rd sword, 1/3rd gun, that slowly became just more gun
Weapon durability outside of survival games is the most reddit mechanic there is.
It's a mechanic that exists solely to pad content by making it harder to climb the equipment ladder and wasteful to quickly clear old enemies using high grade equipment. Basically, it's a goyslop mechanic like level-scaled enemies in Oblivion.
Swords don't break after 6 swings, you don't eat 20 times a day, you don't run out of stamina after jogging 20 feet or climbing 5.
Those are all bad gameplay mechanics to trick low IQ zoomers into thinking they're playing something good.
Sorry it's raining, guess you just can't play the game. Come back when it's not raining.
Oh were you about to die from fall damage or combat? Just pause and instantly teleport out.
It's like they actively don't want you to play the game.
Why do you poor fools require incentive to engage in the game's combat beyond it being fun to kill things? Are your brains melted by looter shooters?
>you should only play elden ring with 1 build
>you should only play dmc with 1 character
>
>you should only play dmc with 1 character
Sword Master all day every day baby, yeah!
I'm not sure what your point is, the gameplay loop has more variety than either of those games even with durability set to infinite.
>the gameplay loop
you can shut up now
I won't. DMC has one thing to do, combat. Elden Ring has one thing to do, combat. BotW has many activities, whether you like them or not.
>the gameplay loop has more variety than either of those games
You have 3 shallow movesets and like 8 enemies.
Funny that you mention DMC. People also brainlessly complained about devil breakers needing to be expended to switch.
I hate tendies.
Weapons last several months/years irl, it breakers after 20 hit in game. This is bullshit
why doesn’t link ever have to take a piss? this is bullshit
I remember when tendies said crafting was bad until zelda did it lmao
I simply don't want my weapons to break. Why can't tendies understand this very simple concept?
Agreed
>DURR GOLD HILT IS PRETTY, ME WANT TO SEE GOLD HILT
Vain, materialistic gay
I think there should have been at least one weapon of every weapon type you could find/unlock that doesn't break. Namely those special ones you got that were unique to the area. Like the Zora spear and shit. Make them do middling damage. Have them entirely used as a fall back when the stronger disposable option are cast aside.
But your inventory is always full. Either you are in the early game and there's no reason to not use the unbreakable weapons, or you're further in and there's no reason to ever use them.
>But it gets better 30 hours in
Not
An
Argument
Durability is fine, it was great in launch DS2 on pc as it made using 2 weapons almost mandatory which gave you a little bit of variety.
The way it's implement in BotW is just straight up dogshit as when it comes to combat it's just a minor inconvenience. But when it comes to overall exploration it means that any cool weapon you find is just "meh whatever" so exploration doesn't feel rewarding in a game entirely about exploration.
BotW is an entire game filled to the brim with counter-design just like that.
How many times do we have to explain this the problem isn't weapon durability as a concept because plenty games have durability system for the weapons and the only game that gets it this much ire of itis BOTW because it implemented it the worst way possible. You can not have a durability system with no means to repair the weapon this is objectively bad design and anyone disagrees is being deliberately dishonest. The other obvious problem is the length of time you use a weapon before it breaks. I would rather be limited to 5 weapons but have assurance that weapon is durable enough to last more than 30 minutes.
I’ve never seen anyone defend weapon durability in any game but BotW/TotK. Why is this?
Because it's always ok when Nintendo does it.
Monster Hunter is one of the few games that does durability right.
>durability done right
>stopping mid fight to rub a stone against your hammer or combat bagpipe
lol
Skill issue.
I didn't really mind it in BotW since weapon drops were everywhere. Kept it fresh with having to use whatever you can find. My one complaint is that I wish the master sword had better durability
>you're a hoarder, this is bad
>uses this argument to defend the game in which you mash the A button every five seconds to grab your 1,286th mushroom and 543rd rock
>gif
I don't remember him saying that
The whiteboi sword is just weak.
I like the BotW durability system for weapons.
It was fricking moronic for the shields since it was way harder to run out shield durability by actually using them, and unlike with weapons the breaking hit conferred no bonus. Durability on shields only served to make shieldsurfing less fun by occasionally telling you to go frick yourself for trying.
I think you should have been able to drop shields (and swords and bows, really) from the quick select screen
I didn't mind durability in BoTW, but it could definitely use a better system.
I like when games force you to use different weapons.
I love it more when the game rewards you for using different weapons, like in Rune Factory you get small stat boosts every level up you get from using X weapon.
In Zelda it could be used to get new abilities for using the weapon long enough.
>In Zelda it could be used to get new abilities for using the weapon long enough.
I think it should be the opposite, actually. Weapons should confer more rewards for breaking the shit out of them, like how they already give a damage/knockback bonus on the hit that breaks them. Maybe breaking enough weapons on an enemy gives you a "frenzy" buff or something.
I like when games force you to use different weapons because different weapons usually force you to change how you play.
Every weapon in botw has a specialty, obviously, but enemies are so braindead that no matter what weapon you're forced to pull out, you can just keep swinging it.
Obviously this is so that people don't feel obligated to pass up good weapons just because they're not the type they like. I understand it. I respect it. But I would be much happier with something like you say, where you're given some sort of passive incentive for using a variety of weapons, so that the constant switching doesn't serve only as a reminder that the enemies are fricking stupid.
>I like when games force you to use different weapons.
Too bad the weapons all behave the same beyond the overall type having a different swing/jump attack/throw. And the differences aren’t that game changing unless you want to bonk a smaller enemy off a cliff which ends up making weapons into disposables. And then the elemental combos turn the game into a menu sequence rather than a combat one. I kinda wish there was a quick swap setup with weapons that had more differences between them.
I think the problem stems from a combination of people being attached to loot they obtain and frustration kicking in once the enemies level up and the more common stuff stops being viable for fighting.
the problem is that its not a zelda game, stop being moronic
previous games:
>get item
>that item is completely unique and permanent
>generally changes the way you play by adding new and unique abilities to your arsenal
>upgrades exist to make the item stronger as you progress
botw:
>get item
>extremely likely chance that the item is a copy paste reskin of one of 4 weapon types
>doesnt change the way you play unless its a rare item like the magic rods, and even then you'll try to save it due to its rarity and low durability.
>upgrades dont exist for said items, you just use em and throw them away like trash.
inb4 runes and champion abilities, the runes are frontloaded at the start and extremely shallow in comparison while the champion abilities are just passive boosts on cooldown. its also easy to replicate the champion ability effects.
you are just a blind tendie that will defend the shit they shove down your throat to death
It's like hunger systems. There's a few games it works for, but will drag down most games when it's arbitrarily shoehorned in.
you're a moron OP. limited-use items are useless in vidya:
>limited uses in a game with infinite enemies. spend it and lose it forever. the item might as well not exist. if you can have make more, then you might as well scrap the whole durability system since it turns into item repair with a few extra steps
>if you make unique, limited items too good, they become skip boss buttons
>if you rely on the player relying on the former, then this can trap the player in unwinnable scenarios (think, running out of ammo and/or having 5 HP with no medkits in an old FPS)
>if they're too mediocre then why keep them at all when you have better tools that can be reproduced infinitely and/or don't break?
This is true.
This is false.
Item durability isn't an inherently flawed concept, but is often paired with scarcity mechanics that make it so.
BotW and TotK are designed to encourage improvisation and selective usage of "good" items where you think the risk of losing the item merits the reward you'd get from using it. The rewards are obvious: tough enemies have good weapons, and to beat them, you might have to expend a good weapon or think of other more novel ways to defeat them in an effort to conserve what you have. Do you choose tedium for max reward or use everything you have to gain just a little? Some weaker enemies aren't worth expending more valuable items, and if you have to fight through them, you'll use weapons you don't mind breaking and replacing with the junk they'll drop. You have to think about what you engage and how you'll do it before you start the encounter. That's called "strategy".
Without the durability mechanic, you would always use the best weapon you have to beat everything. The way games have historically added friction to that is with resistances and damage types, and corresponding weapons that deal specific damage types, which is literally babby-tier color matching strategy.
TotK even further iterates upon durability-inspired improvisation strategies by introducing field crafting and impromptu weapon upgrades. If your weapon is about to break and you don't want it to, fuse it with something nearby to refresh its durability and change its performance characteristics. You'll now additionally look at your environment and inventory for upgrade materials, and potentially have to engage in a way that allows you access to those materials during the fight. If you don't like this, it's probably because you're too used to turning your brain off for goyslop.
Your welcome for this informative blogpost.
>enemies that are strong against your weapon, forcing you to change
>"babby-tier color matching strategy"
>every enemy you fight reduces the durability of your weapon, forcing you to change no matter which you use
>"that's called strategy"
>and to beat them, you might have to expend a good weapon or think of other more novel ways to defeat them in an effort to conserve what you have
I want to play the game, not autistically manage my weapon stock.
>Without the durability mechanic, you would always use the best weapon you have to beat everything.
absolutely not:
>what are weapon tiers and upgrades
>what are weapon strengths (range, speed, impact, parrying, etc.)
>what are enemy weaknesses (can be staggered, great range but slow startup, fast and short-ranged, trippable, etc.)
>fuse it with something nearby to refresh its durability
lmao so it's a half-assed poor man's repair system? thanks for proving my point
>change its performance characteristics
like sub-weapons in an FPS, got it.
>You'll now additionally look at your environment and inventory for upgrade materials
lmao, crafting is looked down upon as worthless padding (and that rarely fails to be the case).
Weapons in BotW are supposed to be like Kirby copy abilities. You're supposed to grab them, use them and lose them, and they vary by stage so (initially) it's not designed in such a way that you can keep going back and grabbing your favorite. Once in a while you'll get a really strong one (like UFO) but that too is fleeting and you eventually lose it.
The problem is that people approach BotW like a traditional game expecting the same weaponfu (with incremental upgrades) to carry them all the way through. If anyone approached Kirby with that mentality they'd hate it too because it doesn't fit their exact ideal that they've been conditioned to expect from other games.
>"Wtf bros, I lost my copy ability, this game sucks, why do I have to keep getting new ones? Why can't I just stick with the same one and have the option of never losing it?"
The current weapon durability system may or may not be the ideal solution to the design philosophy the devs were following, but it does embody what the overarching theme of the gameplay is, even if it's imperfect. The theme of the game is freedom. You're supposed to scavenge whatever you get. You don't even get "recipes" for cooking, no, you just toss shit in a pot that sounds like it'll work, and see what happens. You beat the tutorial and see "destroy ganon" and can go straight to him. Whatever concessions were made and flaws that resulted was the result of an absolute dedication to this theme, it risked pissing players off who wanted "classic" dungeons and wanted to obtain new dungeon items steadily but I respect the devs for going the distance rather than making A Link to the Past #20, and doing what every other Western open world game wishes it could be.
The fact that TotK lets you combine items to make makeshift weapons is further proof of this design philosophy. It's now almost like combining abilities from Kirby 64.
In Kirby, copy abilities serve specific purposes throughout stages. Sometimes there are challenges to keep a certain one for a certain length of time, in order to get rid of an obstacle that REQUIRES that copy ability. Copy abilities also all play differently, and create variety through the frequent enforced change. All of this is used to make copy abilities feel good and worthwhile, to make the game breezy and fun while you switch constantly on the fly.
BotW does none of this. No part of the game DEMANDS a specific bow or sword or axe or anything; at most they might expect a bow in general for some range, or a weapon in general to cause some knockback on a stasis'd object. It is never a challenge to hold on to one, because you're almost never REQUIRED to fight, thus nothing is designed around the difficulty of such. And most importantly, none of them change how you do the main thing you do with them: Fight.
>have to pause and frick with inventory constantly
I hate this shit, but it's a zelda game, what do you expect?
IMO it compares to DSII where weapon durability was a garbage shitty feature where you just had to carry around two or more copies of your favorite weapon. Or the more likely fricking Metro games, where you have to ration every single shitty bullet and obsessively search and dig for more ammo.
At least with the melding(tm) ability in open world zelda launch version 1.5 you can take broken shit stick and just combine it with whatever's smashy. BOTW seemed like godawful garbage to me but if they include the fricking magic wrecking ball conjurer then item durability turns from a stupid chore into a total laugh.
Crafting is shit, durability is shit, but if rock + broken stick magically makes the dumpster hammer then I'm impressed, bravo.
Kirby abilities are more unique than BotW weapons and usually have synergy with either the level or puzzle design in a given area, bad analogy
>kirby powerups all do the same thing
moron
You are right except Botw has one flaw and this is that you can grind down your weapons faster than you can get a new one.
You will always want to have some good weapons as backup for stronger enemies which in turn encourages hoarding again.
Weapons should use up way less durability against weaker enemies. This is highly fragile system to balance. Ideally durability should depend on how the weapon is used.
Hitting shields, heavily armored enemies, etc. should grind down a Sword more than striking flesh.
>you can grind down your weapons faster than you can get a new one.
this is literally a skill issue
more like an iq issue, weapons are so common that it generally impresses me people can’t replenish them
>you can grind down your weapons faster than you can get a new one.
Not true, unless you're doing some dumb shit like hitting rocks. An enemy drops a weapon that will do more damage than the monster had health.
>Weapons should use up way less durability against weaker enemies.
They do. If an enemy dies in one hit it takes up one durability, if it dies in ten hits it takes up ten durability.
>kill enemy in 2 hits
>kill enemy in 1.002 hits
besides shit enemies drop shit weapons or none at all.
Not something you want to waste your rare magic sticks otherwise you trade badly, no matter if you can kill 40 Bokoblins in a single hit.
ever fought a Hinox or Linel. It pretty much evens out
Lynels can be killed without breaking a single weapon
>lynel taming event in ToTK
imagine
Every single Kirby ability is different AND feels good to play. It's literally not a comparison.
Also I want my zelda games to be consistent in flavor, that is Nintendo's entire MO. You get a game and you know exactly what you're going to be doing with some new variety to spice it up.
BotW is a pretty boring open world with dogshit dungeons. Even Skyrim inspires people more and it's absolute garbage.
i don't mind weapon durability but i'd like it a lot more if there was a repair mechanic
problem solved
I'd like a decent game for fricking once. You almost have the right idea.
How about this:
>cut through flesh
>sword takes zero durability damage
>bash sword on shield or armor
>sword visibly gets nicked, beaten
>also progressively loses damage, to a lower limit
>stabbing attacks, while slower, counter armor
>sword takes about zero durability damage stabbing through armor
so if you play like a moron you get punished
>sharpening repairs minor damage, whenever you can rest
>after enough damage you need it reforged at a smith
>too much abuse and the sword will break
devs are too lazy imo, damage stick have health bar, good enough
>after enough damage you need it reforged at a smith
>too much abuse and the sword will break
in a linear game this would be fine, but with modern games that let you get out of a fight and fast travel to a smith this leads to annoying maintenance where you constantly dropout of fights to keep your weapons alive.
Basically like Pokemon where you can heal for freely and usually don't face any risks except wasting time walking all the way back
Fast travel is best classified as "lazy idea that circumvents a critical design flaw". Good level design? Unlocking shortcuts? Beautiful environment? Frick that.
Logical fast travel between city hubs is fine, but at-will teleporting is a lazy fricking idea. "Bonfire warp" is definitely on the lazy side of things.
If someone has to retreat and go back to a city to get something they missed, or re-evaluate strategy, or change plans, sure. If you have to go back to a smith to repair your weapon because half the dungeon eats three quarters of your sword-meter, then it's all trash.
if you can go through a whole dungeon without using up a single weapons durability than you can just as well drop durability.
This is what DS did and it was pretty much a redundant system except for maybe Crystal Weapons, because they are unrepairable
OP we both no that you are a Nintendo d r o n e who will autisticly defend any thing Nintendo does.
If Ninendo went to your home to shoot your mother you would cheer them on.
Actually it's not often that Kirby levels force you to use something that isn't near by. And if you want to be real, most abilities are "range attack, melee attack, or body touch attack". It's not complex.
its bad, especially when the legendary blade of evil's bane breaks. what a fricking joke.
i don't really get the big deal with durability, it feels like it just rewarded playing smart and punished you for wanting to just run up to enemies and beat them to death. even losing a weapon to any enemy isn't even that big of a deal either since the boko club line of weapons are actually good just because they get +10 damage while on fire so they're way better than they appear.
The last hit of a weapon when it breaks does extra damage so it's not even a real downside if one breaks in combat.
>it feels like it just rewarded playing smart and punished you for wanting to just run up to enemies and beat them to death
>it feels like it just... punished you for wanting to just run up to enemies and beat them to death
>it feels like it just punished you for wanting to play a zelda game and not super duper ninja 9000
good job! you got it!
you don't have to play super duper ninja 9000, you could also freeze enemies and then hit them with an electric weapon to deal damage to the entire group instead of hitting them one by one with your weapon and break it, you can also throw them off a cliff or into water, use fire while they're in tall grass like in the webm, drop a box on them, shock them and just take their shit when they drop it, etc. there are so many methods to conserve durability that aren't stealth so i don't get your complaint
>it feels like it punished you for just wanting to play a zelda game and not crazy ice bonker
>it feels like it punished you for just wanting to play a zelda game and not goblin tosser
>it feels like it punished you for just wanting to play a zelda game and not pyro (tf2)
>it feels like it punished you for just wanting to play a zelda game and not box bashing boy
>it feels like it punished you for just wanting to play a zelda game and not electro wizard simulator
>there are so many ways to not play a zelda game i dont get your complaint
Are you also the guy that posts the webm of some dude just hitting the stalfos shield in OoT for a minute straight and baits saying it's super combat?
no, sorry to get your hopes up at a "epic own" by trying to call me out. i know you normalgays like those.
Frick, well there goes my day.
look, you don't like botw, that's fine, it's trying to be different than the other zelda games and not everybody has to like it. for me, i like botw's because the combat isn't just some combination of mashing the attack button, doing helm splitter or back slice, or simply just waiting for the enemy to attack before you're allowed to touch it. you actually have different ways to approach combat and that's fun for me, whereas in other zelda games the most different an encounter might be is that you'll fight two stalfos instead of just one, enemy encounters can be very different in botw. you have to avoid the enemy on lookout to get the jump on the group, or enemies might be using shock arrow or bomb arrows, or there might be a high tier enemy mixed in with some low tiers. it makes me approach it differently and makes me consider how best to deal with it with the tools i have available, maybe i'll want to use up that royal broadsword to burst down the higher tier enemy, or maybe i'll just freeze him until i kill the other guys first. i like that and think it's fun.
>different good
go away
> it's trying to be different than the other zelda games and not everybody has to like it
THEN MAYBE NINTENDO SHOULD HAVE MADE A NEW IP YOU PIECE OF SHIT ZOOMER
lol nah, too much money is at stake
use popular IP, make popular game, make most money.
Zelda is a fricking chimera of different genres for good or ill, there's no overall gameplay structure to expect. Expect Metal-Gear-tier spinoffs going from top-down sprites to tacticool to cyborg ninja to zombie fort. Whenever the next big gaming fad has come and gone (the next "open world") then you'll see nintendo stuff zelda with it
should nintendo have made a new IP rather than make OOT?
OOT was a transition into 3d, completely different than a game thats literally nothing like previous zelda games mechanically.
skyward sword, aside from the motion control abomination, is still a zelda game mechanically.
stay mad, tendies.
Should Nintendo have made a new IP instead of Skyward sword?
Not him but yes
frick skyward sword
Zelda games sucked. There's a reason Botw was the only successful one.
please leave, normalgay.
why do I need to fight using fricking sticks and stones that I constantly have to pick up when you could just give me a god damn sword befitting of the hero of kvatch?
The durability system in BOTW's not a big deal because killing one enemy makes them drop a weapon fit for the area they're in. The real question is why the frick they bothered given how irrelevant it is.
I didn't play BotW a lot but I discovered shield surfing and it was really cool for about 5 seconds until my shield broke.
No amount of pseudo-intellectual homosexualry about game design will restore my ruined fun.
You can get shields that last much longer with surfing. Also if you surf on paths or "soft" terrain they don't break as quick, and they take no damage on sand and snow.
SS was basically all dungeons and people rail that game hard. They should have doubled down on SS.
SS was also railroaded to hell and back with the most obnoxious handholding and interruption-heavy gameplay ever. BotW is a direct response to criticism in regards to SS
Durability in botw was pure trash, and the worst part is, it totally skewed the way game rewards you because of it. That said, im willing to give it another go in totk, fusing seems like it could be fun
Durability is a mechanic to create immersion and put you in a scarcity mindset, just like sleep, hunger and hunger meters, which is why its is good for survival games of any type, be it linear horror survival or grindy survival.
Scarcity meters (that's all "item durability" is, another ammo to keep track of) are for best used for adding tension and pressure, not to have a good time. scarcity meters belong in the Sims and survival sims only, nowhere else. In the Sims it's the core gameplay, everywhere else it's a chore.
Minecraft isn't even fun and that piece of shit cursed the whole fricking industry with item durability. This durability shit all comes from 2008/2009 with minecraft and fallout 3, those were fricking flukes, those games were fun at the time, but nothing in those games was actually well-designed or really well-implemented. They did well, so the industry copied them, dumbasses.
>he thinks durability started then
LOL
LMAO
Dark Cloud had weapon durability you moronic youngin, and it didn't stop people from enjoying it.
yeah I'm sure PS2 jrpg #30491 really rocked the industry
>it didn't stop people from enjoying it
you almost understand
look at the thread, nobody enjoys item durability, it's a masochism feature. In crafting games they put it in to make it feel like you need to collect resources - like you need to play the game. This shit is never fun on it's own unless you want the whole game to make you feel like you're sweating from pressure, and Zelda is a game for little kiddies
>I'm sure
And moron post discarded.
yeah PS2 jrpg #30491 really rocked the industry
>it didn't stop people from enjoying it
you almost understand
look at the thread, nobody enjoys item durability, it's a masochism feature. In crafting games they put it in to make it feel like you need to collect resources - like you need to play the game. This shit is never fun on it's own unless you want the whole game to make you feel like you're sweating from pressure, and Zelda is a game for little kiddies
I still remember how the projectile characters became almost mandatory in the later dungeons because the melee weapons lost durability based on what they hit, and the projectile weapons lost durability just from when they fired. Weapons capped at 99 WHP, but some bosses could take 11 WHP from you for each hit. Meaning you could land 8 swings with a melee character before having to repair it.
Or you could land 98 shots with a projectile character.
You also had auto repair powers and normal repair powders so unless you were going balls to the wall and never left the dungeons it was a non issue.
I just remember Demon Shaft being super annoying with my melee, since you had to bring so much repair powder with you. Then again I played the game when it was new and it's been a while, so my memory on it is still a bit hazy.
It just felt bad that for a ranged character you could go through and repair powder once a floor, while for a melee character you sometimes had to repair every few fights.
Durability is fine, the way BOTW did it was fricking awful.
Test
>graphicsgay cancer
The reason games cost a moronic amount today.
Weapon durability is a good idea in concept but it leads to collecting tons of fodder for lower tier enemies and saving stronger or "rare" items for higher tier one because you dont know when a weapon could break on you out of nowhere.
While you can use both types effectively this requires knowledge that is only available for people who have played the game extensively or actually developed the game.
Or just not hoarding things.
It's the eternal "elixir" issue, where people hoard powerful things until they need them but never actually need them so they never use them.
Just use the shit, have fun and take it easy instead or worrying.
durability is good because it forces you to use a variety of weapons instead of just using the same one for the entire game. it also makes it so you have to choose when to use each one.
>choose
nah, you just whack enemies with whatever you have and replenish them with whatever drops up until mid to late game in which you avoid enemies entirely
Your game sold 30 million copies. It's a game for NPCs.
And if it sold 10k and only had 30 max players a a time you'd call it shit still.
I don't call it shit. I like it. But the durability could work better.
Still, if a game sells millions of copies, most of players have to be normals.
No I just like to not have games to try and force me to use shitty weapons I don't want to and prefer to use the ones I actually like. Every weapon durability defending homosexual needs to be shot
if you don't have at least some hoarder instinct it means you lack the ability to delay gratification and are low iq. it's literally the marshmallow experiment, or the grasshopper and the ant fable.
>no you need item durability otherwise people will only use the best weapon all the time
>Weapon Durability before Nintendo did it
>”Yeah man that shit sucks I wish games didn’t have this shit”
>Weapon Durability after Nintendo did it exactly how other games did before
>”FILTERED FILTERED GUYS WEAPON DURABILITY IS A GREAT MECHANIC ONLY NPCS THINK OTHERWISE STOP CRITICIZING GREAT GAME OF ALL TIME”
Why are Nintendo fans like this, especially Zelda fans?
>”Yeah man that shit sucks I wish games didn’t have this shit”
I've always said this and looked like this.
They aren’t Zelda fans, they’re Breath of the Wild fans.
I can’t respect the opinions of someone so talentless. If anything shitty drawings are a reason to disagree with their viewpoint.
There was nothing mechanically wrong with weapon durability in BotW and anyone who says otherwise was playing the fricking game wrong. The game wanted to change weapons into a consumable resource, not a primary persistent tool, and it wanted to encourage players to branch out with the tools at their disposal instead of relying on one thing like a crutch. With that in mind, the system worked just fine and you were never strapped for weapons and could even strategically utilize weapon breakage to gain damage boosts in fights. I think they overall did a good job on the system in that it was never in my way or negatively impacting my enjoyment.
That being said, I have subjective complaints about the system because even if the system works and doesn't impede gamplay, it's not a system I enjoy as much. I like weapon systems where the player can use them as a means to suit their personality, playstyle, and preferences. I think durability was fine but I would have loved it so much more if there was also weapon upgrading/customization options to give you a weapon you could connect with and attach to and carry with you through your adventure. Just make repair options more resource intensive to keep the player from fully relying on it the entire game but allow them to slowly amass a more personalized arsenal that means something to them. I think that would have been more fun.
>The system worked as the devs intended!
That doesn't mean it is immune from criticism as a dog-shit design foundation.
>People somehow have problem with durability in BoTW
>When weapons are scattered fricking everywhere, plus different game mechanics to defeat an enemy + master sword
Sometimes I feel like I play a different version of the games, the ones for non-morons I guess.
Games that intend to be played as like hybrid-class stuff need to come with a warning label or the end users might just try and use a sword to kill everything,.
I played bioshock infinite and it was dogshit because the developers clearly intended you to use the magic powers through the entire game. I have magic powers IRL, I want to use a gun. System Shock 2 let you pick gunman or wizard, but Bio Infinite forces you to be a hybrid-class, or else it just sucks.
DaS1 durability was a fricking joke, you paid fifty cents every now and then to fix something, it was just a stupid chore. You could upgrade crystal weapons to cheese those, but that was fine, I guess.
DaS2 durability for dex weapons would break in an instant and it was solved by bringing two or three of them, it was still dog shit. Why the frick would you ever include durability in a game that has copies of weapons and infinite inventory?
upgrade materials were not infinite and finding duplicates rare except for basic stuff.
>can
you can kill everything with bombs
you're moronic for trying to compare how you can technically kill shit with bombs just because they're infinite use but do pitiful damage to how mounting a lynel does 5 hits for full damage but takes away no durability
When are you gaslighting homosexuals going to get it's about getting to keep the weapons you enjoying playing with and also having your gameplay not get interrupted by having to switch to another weapon?
I you think weapons should break into nothingness when you wack a Bokoblin five times over the head you're just stupid.
Weapons getting weaker and needing to be maintained is fine. The problem is weapons shattering like they're made of glass after five minutes of use. There's a right way to do this mechanic and it sure as hell isn't how Zelda does it.
>weapons shattering like they're made of glass after five minutes of use.
You should stop using tree branches
The highest hit count of any weapon in game is 60.
60!
If you think you are getting even 5 minutes of combat at out of any weapon you are deluded.
Sorry, I never fought for 5 minutes straight
>You should stop using tree branches
Then I get punished for not having any non-metal against Thunderblight Ganon. Going into that fight blind was a fricking slog.
I don't have any problem with weapons breaking often early to mid game, but then when you get the really strong stuff it becomes annoying, and when even the master sword has its own durability then it's bullshit
You don't need 4 frames
now you made it look like the bird kicked the sword instead of stand on it
wtf did he poop on the sword
>break weapon
>pick from the dozen other weapons that do the same exact thing
The system doesn't do anything but make me sometimes open up a quick menu and press left or right.
I am fairly ambivalent, the system just kinda exists but isn't overly annoying.
I'd rather not have it, or they actually make weapons matter.
As it stands it doesn't mean much since every weapon of that type as has the same moveset.
shields I think get the shortest end of the stick since I don't think there is any reason I used one over another except for the sake of matching one to my armor.
All depending on the combat system tbh.
I dont like botw durability mainly because it's so small and linear.
I hope totk gets rid of the linear damage, defense, and durability and follows a more modular percentage based approach
I have autism and form attachments to inanimate objects in real life so I would prefer to keep the first wood cutting axe I get.
What did my percentage durability post have to do with that?
durability.
Wow you were right about the autism
durability is a shit mechanic.
1. devs have no way of knowing how players are going to use the resources they are given
2. players have no way of knowing how resources are going to be given out
3. devs don't want to let players put themselves in fail states where they can't progress because they broke a weapon they weren't supposed to
so devs have to assume that players are going to be low impulse control Black folk and break every weapon as soon as they get them and design the game so that its still winnable in that condition. on the other hand intelligent players are going to assume that the dev is making a game for intelligent people and look at it from the perspective of "this weapon looks strong so maybe I am supposed to save it for an upcoming strong enemy" which just results in ending up with a bunch of weapons you never get to use. basically it's a mechanic that only works when the player is the kind of moron who lives paycheck to paycheck and punishes non-moron players for having reasonable expectations.
I agree with you but in Zelda's case, the dungeons at least are designed to be and feel as predictable as possible. Some of the older ones like Ocarina's water temple had some serious curveballs, but nine times out of ten, if you recognize a gimmick that it tries to tutor you for, you'll know how to beat the entire dungeon.
>1. devs have no way of knowing how players are going to use the resources they are given
I use my Master Sword as a broom, but don't tell Nintendo
Consider the following:
>weapon breaks
>drops materials
>you can craft new weapons out of materials
>rare weapons drop a core material and require more common material as well to make to reward using low value weapons as well
>you can actually make completely novel weapons out of the material
There, now you actually feel rewarded for using different weapons and don't feel too stingy with using rare weapons
>tHeRe wAs nOtHiNg mEcHaNiCaLlY WrOnG WiTh wEaPoN DuRaBiLiTy iN BoTw aNd aNyOnE WhO SaYs oThErWiSe wAs pLaYiNg tHe frickiNg gAmE WrOnG. tHe gAmE WaNtEd tO ChAnGe wEaPoNs iNtO A CoNsUmAbLe rEsOuRcE, nOt a pRiMaRy pErSiStEnT ToOl, AnD It wAnTeD To eNcOuRaGe pLaYeRs tO BrAnCh oUt wItH ThE ToOlS At tHeIr dIsPoSaL InStEaD Of rElYiNg oN OnE ThInG LiKe a cRuTcH. wItH ThAt iN MiNd, ThE SyStEm wOrKeD JuSt fInE AnD YoU WeRe nEvEr sTrApPeD FoR WeApOnS AnD CoUlD EvEn sTrAtEgIcAlLy uTiLiZe wEaPoN BrEaKaGe tO GaIn dAmAgE BoOsTs iN FiGhTs. I ThInK ThEy oVeRaLl dId a gOoD JoB On tHe sYsTeM In tHaT It wAs nEvEr iN My wAy oR NeGaTiVeLy iMpAcTiNg mY EnJoYmEnT.
Damn. How long did it take you to make this.
3 seconds
The smartest durability hater
Weapon durability is a good mechanic
Swords that break after one battle (or worse) are a bad mechanic
It's one of those things where it's great when done correctly and awful when it isn't.
Yep, durability was never a problem from day one.
It depends on the gameplay, but weapon durability rips away any illusion of a game being anything other than a skinner box. There is no permanent progress for completing challenges, only things you receive to acquire more things.
All the whining about muh durability and breakable weapons is 100% a presentation issue. Everyone already tolerates ranged weapons being limited by ammunition rather than durability, as it makes sense for ranged weapons to have limited shots. Yet melee weapons having durability magically does not make sense or magically is not fun anymore, which probably has to do with people being conditioned by games to believe that melee weapons are your last resort weapons, causing them to kvetch whenever a game dares deviate from conventions or "best industry practices".
Limited ammunition and limited durability are the exact same system with a different skin. There is functionally no gameplay difference in being able to shoot a gun eight times before it runs out and being able to swing a sword eight times before it breaks. In shooters you pick up the same weapon you already have to replenish ammo for that weapon, and with games with breakable weapons you pick up the same weapon you already have to have it as a spare in case your current one breaks. It is absolutely the same thing. You could change Doom so that each gun has infinite ammo but instead finite durability, with "ammo pick-ups" being renamed to "durability repair kits". On a gameplay-level it wouldn't change a thing. Presentation-wise it is different, but the dumbfricks in this thread are trying to justify their presentation pet peeves using gameplay-level arguments.
Since we know that limited durability and limited ammunition are functionally the same system, all the arguments levied against durability could therefore easily be applied to limited ammunition, which would expose just how utterly stupid they sound given the vast amount of shooters that have limited ammunition and don't suffer from the issues people allege the durability in BotW causes. Naturally limited durability creates caveats like limited ammunition does, but to then call the idea of durability itself inherently bad is utter horseshit
your gun doesn't fricking break when it's out of ammo moron. people would absolutely complain if a shooter made you drop a gun when it was empty instead of being able to pick up more ammo from boxes and shit, and people already do complain about games that have arbitrarily low ammo capacity where you can find an ammo item and not be able to pick it up because you're already at max.
>people would absolutely complain if a shooter made you drop a gun when it was empty
Guess what, that was the plan for Bloodlines 2 and people did complain!
yeah, and instead BotW hands you multiple copies of the same weapon, and if it had guns it would work that way too
there is no functional difference between "im out of ammo, i cant use my gun and have to use another weapon", and "my gun is out of durability, my gun is broken and I have to use another weapon"
the way you replenish them, either by finding ammo or durability repair kits or copies of the same weapon are also all functionally the same thing
it already works that way in Hotline Miami, most playable characters cant even reload guns and just have to find some other shit to pick up, on top of some melee weapons being breakable
nobody complained
Hotline Miami does play out in seconds. Loading a magazine with rounds actually requires you to sit down and stuff metal pez back into a dispenser for a minute or two. Loading a gun with a new magazine takes a second or two, but even that is too slow for Hotline Miami. Decent game, that. Hotline is about as far it gets from any open world game in terms of pacing. Open-worlders usually try to at least approximate what happens in downtime, Hotline Miami is classic vidya, it just doesn't care.
it's different because letting you keep the gun even with no ammo creates an expectation that you're going to get ammo back and keep using the same gun. if your sword breaks you don't know if you will ever get another one that's the same.
>people would absolutely complain if a shooter made you drop a gun when it was empty instead of being able to pick up more ammo from boxes and shit
Far Cry 2 did exactly this and I bet there are survival and horror games that do this as well
>your gun doesn't fricking break when it's out of ammo moron.
It's functionally the same shit. You can't use the gun until you get ammo, you can't use a weapon you don't have cause it broke.
This really just boils down to people liking a weapon and wanting to keep it forever and hating that they can't.
It's moronic because there's only 4 weapon types in BotW anyway (not counting wands, torches, leaves, etc) so it's not like there's much reason to get *too* attached anyways
>You can't use the gun until you get ammo, you can't use a weapon you don't have cause it broke.
One of those is fixed by finding ammo. The other is only fixed by finding an entirely new weapon.
Ammo is a Pokemon not being able to fight (except Struggle) when it's out of PP.
Durability permanently breaking a weapon is like a Pokemon releasing itself as soon as it runs out of PP (with no way to get it more PP).
They're similar but different, and the difference is pretty big.
bows
>bows can break
>bows can also run out of ammo
It's not "inherently a bad mechanic" but it wasn't used well in Breath of the Wild.
Not inherently. It's just bad in most cases, like in nintendo's piece of shit.
>Weapons break
>Scaling enemy levels
>Running 10 minutes back to boss after dying
If you ever end up defending any of these, you are absolute troony
Yahtzee has been criticizing weapon durability for over 10 years
>you are an npc and a hoarder
pretty much this, they're also plagued with player's anxiety.
Can't believe how much i had fun with Elden Ring knowing full well it had dungeons, actual level design, no weapon durability, playable females, amazing enemy variety and multiplayer.
I hate excessive inventory management.
I hate item durability.
I hate anything that interrupts the flow of combat.
>find cool weapon
>enjoy using it
>lose it almost immediately
but nah it's fine, i can just go pick up a fricking twig off the ground and use that as a replacement
thanks nintendo! frick you
durability sucks
They should at least make it so you get shit after your weapon breaks. Oh, a basic sword breaks? Okay, you get iron bits which can be used in crafting. Oh, your stick broke? Okay, you got some wood which can be used in crafting.
the best games in the series dont have a breakable main weapon.
there is nothing fun about being forced to use garbage. also, TOTK's "main gimmick" is stolen from nuts and bolts. using a stick and rock is not "innovation".
I like durability when it's done well. Unfortunately I've only played one game where it was done well and it's not BOTW
>scroll through thread
>tendies are comparing durability to ammo again and saying they are the same thing
dont you guys get bored of that bait?
It’s not bad it’s just ammo for physical weapons. People are just automatically married to the idea that if it’s physical it NEEDS to last forever. I think TotK looks bad btw.
At least with ammo I can reload without fricking around in a menu. If durability is the ammo in BOTW then how come I don't get infinite arrows?
weapon durability is good in pre-skyrim bethesda games, everywhere else its trash
I've played each Zelda on release since ALLTP and I thought Breath of the Wild was a Breath of Fresh Air with not having the same kinda of item based exploration as the past games. If I wanted to get the same kinda of items again in a new game in a series, I'd play more Metroid.
The only reason why I hate it is because generally it does nothing but add a useless bill. Durability in every game does nothing. Do you do less damage the less durability you have? Do you take more damange if your armor has less durabilty? I don't know any game that does something like that, it's always once you hit 0 your armor slightly goes away till you repair it.