Whoever came up with this term should seriously kill themselves, it's almost as bad as MOBA
It doesn't even make sense, an immersive simulation, that sounds more like something like the battletech pods or those megaautism tank games instead of a FPS/RPG hybrid like Deus Ex or System Shock 2.
Just call them 0451 games
this literally only works for games that Origin made, anyone else that does this is a fag.
This might've been the best "immersive sim", but they just had to explain every single interaction.
>Whoever came up with this term
It was Warren Spector, creator of Deus Ex. If you can create something outside of traditional genre scope, you can name it however the fuck you want, kid.
It's not outside of a traditional genre, it's literally an FPS, Warren Spector is a fucking hack and deserves absolutely no credit for shit.
>It's not outside of a traditional genre, it's literally an FPS
Brainlet
>NOO YOU CAN SNEAK PAST ENEMIES SO IT'S LITERALLY A DIFFERENT GENRE
Room Temperature IQ
That's why you are brainlet, you don't even understand what's the difference between immersive sim and fps.
I don't think you understand that it's still a first person shooter, and calling it an immersive sim is a retarded term that says absolutely nothing of the genre, as said in the OP it's like a MOBA it's a meaningless term.
FPS/RPG is a decent term but I prefer FPS Adventure or Action-Adventure game myself because that's exactly what they are.
>FPS Adventure
Oh yeah and where Thief enters? Because it doesn't play like any fps
>Action-Adventure
This even more retarded you are saying to me Deus Ex is the same genre as Uncharted or Tomb Raider?
>Oh yeah and where Thief enters? Because it doesn't play like any fps
I would put in in a category I call "trash" because it fucking sucks
yeah, actually
>there is zero difference between Deus Ex and Doom
Call of Duty is also different from Doom? Doom is also different from Wolfenstein, it being different doesn't make it a different genre.
At best you can call Deus Ex an FPS with RPG elements, which again is a normal thing to call something. You do not need to invent some stupid fake genre because a game has a (minor) experience system and an unusual accuracy mechanic. As the other poster said, it's literally an FPS.
It's more accurate to say there is zero difference from Deus Ex to Unreal or Doom to System Shock but yes there is a difference however it's not major and it's more inline with the evolution to an FPS than a full genre shift, you can play System Shock like Doom and you can Play Deus Ex like unreal and if you claim you can't you are a retard, even if it's not the intended way to play it's a viable way to play.
This wouldn't even make sense as a comparison of fps games. You can't play System Shock like Doom because there's like 2 projectile enemies in all of System Shock and enough hitscanners to make a comparison to Blood vaguely more accurate.
>Warren Spector, creator of Deus Ex
subtly the funniest post of the year
>doesn't include the two games that literally invented the genre
Jesus fucking christ
Did they ever figure out mouse look for these?
Skyrim is the best immersive sim
what is the definitive trait of the genre?
>It's an immersive simulation game in that you are made to feel you're actually in the game world with as little as possible getting in the way of the experience of "being there." Ideally, nothing reminds you that you're just playing a game -- not interface, not your character's back-story or capabilities, not game systems, nothing. It's all about how you interact with a relatively complex environment in ways that you find interesting (rather than in ways the developers think are interesting), and in ways that move you closer to accomplishing your goals (not the developers' goals)
Hideo 'failed movie director' Kojima did
It's what he called his shitty MGS series because it's more about cinematic and directing than gameplay
genuinely curious how you got this impression
It literally is what he claimed it is
It was an immersive sim of a spy-action genre that he, of course, according to his fanbois, invented
So, let's start simple. What exactly are the supposed parallels between games Kojima has directed and games like Ultima Underworld, Deus Ex, or Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines?
Sweetie, I don't like Hideo 'failed movie director' Kojima's sloppy shit he calls 'cinematic'.
Perhaps start a MGS thread and ask his fanbois or email the gay himself and he'll respond with 'Ii invent camera' or whatever sperg shit he thinks he did in reality
I have never seen a Jimbo thread on Ganker where someone praised him for his ridiculous statements. Are you suffering from paranoia?
Okay...what does that have to do with so-called immersive sims?
Name one thing Hideo "La Creatividad" Kojima didn't invent.
I'm waiting.
good dialogue
Tactical Espionage Action
People get way too worked up about genres and subgenres and things, I have to assume it's an autism thing. Like the kinds of people who freak out if different foods touch on their plate.
Maybe it should be named something like “shock-like” so it fits into every other unimaginative genre name these
>thief 1 outside of basis
>mankind divided and prey 2017 in top notch
>bioshock in popular, but bloodlines is not an immersive sim
excuse me, what kind of corporate shill made this shit?
A literal slav made it don't expect it to be good or accurate.
Bioshit is not an imsim
Why not?
If Bioshock is one, then Half-Life 1+2 and Doom 3 are also Immersive Sims.
I mean, in Bioshock's defense, the use of physical elements is still pretty in line with games archetypal of that label insofar as how it affects combat. Bioshock's mission design is just made for elementary school kids, which is absolutely invalidating of player autonomy.
>the use of physical elements is still pretty in line with games archetypal of that label
Meaning?
Electricity behaves in water in a way that at least resembles real life. Fire behaves with oil in a similar way. These are just shallow because they are only in service of direct combat. I don't remember if the ice plasmid interacts with water at all.
That would make Half-Life an Immersive Sim too then.
Depends, can you electrify water absolutely anywhere where there is water? Or is it just 'this one electrified body of water in this one corridor here'?
You can turn power on and off here and kill enemies with it. Later, you also control Air Strikes at one point with an interactive map, or lure an enemy into a big electrocution trap.
How often does it need to occur to count as Immersive Sim?
>you also control Air Strikes at one point with an interactive map, or lure an enemy into a big electrocution trap.
Once again scripted sequences that does nothing for players choices.
>How often does it need to occur to count as Immersive Sim?
There is no set amount. It’s about giving the player the tools to do it when they see fit.
>It’s about giving the player the tools to do it when they see fit.
Then why are Bloodlines and Thief 1 not listed under "Basis", but Bioshock is in popular? The only choice in Bioshock is your choice of weapon, no?
>lure an enemy into a big electrocution trap
The boss? Isn't that basically how it's supposed to work?
>How often does it need to occur to count as Immersive Sim?
'Immersive Sim' is a bad term and I try to refrain from using it, however I think the proper frame to view that concept is more as a category of design ideas than a category of games themselves. The games that are called Immersive Sims most often are simply games made with explicit goal of adhering to that kind of design as much as was possible. Even within that label, there's a lot of variation in terms of that adherence. Ultima Underworld probably being the most 'simulator' game among them, down to your character's eating and sleeping still making more logical sense than in Red Dead Redemption II, but features a rudimentary conversation system (sadly it's exactly as advanced as conversation systems in games today). System Shock doesn't feature any elemental simulation to speak of in my memory, and Deus Ex maybe marginally more. Thief will maintain an objectives screen at all times, breaking diegesis significantly more than System Shock did.
Basically, immersive sim 'elements' are all about simulating a more complete reality without arbitrary limits that keep you in a 'game'. Ideally, you can manipulate anything in a simulated world, not just what the game designer has said you can pick up. Elements like water and fire work like in real life and everywhere like in real life. Sound is affected by distance and the surfaces involved, and have a spectrum of reactions within the AI.
And a general emphasis on player autonomy via a lack of handholding and openness toward player methods of problem-solving whereby the reality systems mentioned above may interact in ways the devs didn't intend, simply because they didn't hardcode solutions out of the game. Thanks for reading my blog.
>Thief will maintain an objectives screen at all times, breaking diegesis significantly more than System Shock did
Every Immersive Sim has clear objectives of what you should do next, how those objectives are presented to you is completely irrelevant to the gameplay.
>Basically, immersive sim 'elements' are all about simulating a more complete reality without arbitrary limits that keep you in a 'game'.
Then Bioshock is not an Immersive Sim and should not be on this list at all, and Fallout should be put on it.
>Then Bioshock is not an Immersive Sim and should not be on this list at all
Not the game as a whole simply because I don't think Ken Levine has ever been interested in that stuff, but those elements are and the fact they were included in a game not concerned with simulated reality seems like what I would've called progress if the industry were in better shape since 2007.
>but those elements
bro you literally upgrade magic power and weapons at vending machines. I have no idea what game with Immersive Sim elements you played, but it wasn't Bioshock
Yes, as I said in some post ago, the fact that electricity consistently works in a way a analogous to real life is a element of what makes so-called immersive sims what they are.
Except if the electricity is controlled by a light switch (like in Half-Life 1), then it doesn't count?
I'd call it a relatively limited implementation of the real effect of electricity in contact with water.
limited implementation of electricity (NOT Immersive Sim):
>water on floor
>hit light switch
>floor is electrified
>can now kill enemy and you (does nothing else)
full-on popular implementation of electricity (100% Immersive Sim):
>water on floor
>electricity comes magically out of character
>floor is electrified
>can now kill enemy and you (does nothing else)
comes magically out of character
That's not the only source of electricity in Bioshock. iirc the flamethrower's electric gel ammo has the same effect in bodies of water. What this means is that the player is less likely to think "this power or this gun does X" and more likely to think "electricity does X, and this power and this gun release electricity", though ideally you'd want more than just two gameplay tools doing something like that in a simulated reality. As long as there are more types of scenarios where electricity does X or even a higher number of the same single type, yeah I'd consider that a relatively greater use of the 'electricity does X' simulation; not perfect or ideal, just higher up the ladder. If that framework places that aspect of Bioshock above that aspect of Half-Life, then so be it.
>That's not the only source of electricity in Bioshock. iirc the flamethrower's electric gel ammo has the same effect in bodies of water.
What this boils down to is that the environment has sometimes patches of stuff that the player can use his own stuff on and create an effect. For example, exploding barrels and crates in Half-Life ("environmental patches of stuff") can be interacted with the help of ~12-13 weapons ("player's stuff) to make them explode. This will not only destroy nearby enemies, but also various destructible objects like wooden crates. This would make Half-Life and most FPS games Immersive Sims.
>Immersive Sims
I guess we just aren't gonna see eye-to-eye on whether this term makes more sense to apply to entire games or just their moving parts.
>For example, exploding barrels and crates
>will not only destroy nearby enemies, but also various destructible objects like wooden crates
>This would make Half-Life and most FPS games Immersive Sims
I'd argue that programming the explosion to have effects other than damage to enemies definitely comes from that creative place in games of wanting to make a more complete virtual reality, maybe in the service of things like more enjoyable high octane action gameplay, but the end result is very much in the vein of a greater reality. In real life, water (of adequate mass) puts out fire just like in a game like Thief. In real life, an explosion (of adequate tonnage) will visibly degrade wooden structures. The difference would be whether the wooden structures are programmed to be destroyed strictly by grenades, barrels or other weapons, or if those things simply cause an explosion effect (alongside any other explosion effect throughout the game) and the wood is specifically responding to the explosion effect.
Why haven't we gotten a good matrix game? Why let that IP rot like this when it has so much potential?
Best you can hope for atm are Remedy's Max Payne remakes in the northlight engine with those very nice destruction physics. I have no idea why, and this is the really retarded part, WB hasn't drafted Monolith (which they've owned for a decade) into making Matrix games instead of fucking Lord of the Rings and Wonder Woman.
That’s a scripted occurrence you can’t play around with it or use it to any actual advantage.
I guess Divinity Original Sin 2 is an 'immersive sim' too then?
This shit reminds me of how people misuse RPG and roguelike to mean basically fucking anything and the genre loses all meaning because of a bunch of ignorant retards
see
>I think the proper frame to view that concept is more as a category of design ideas than a category of games themselves
Is Dark Messiah any good?
I just call them crpgs, some good ones in that pic
I guess some of those aren't rpgs though
How is Bioshock 2 and E.Y.E. Divine Cybermancy considered the same level of "indy"? Bioshock 2 was packaged with a vinyl record of all things.
something about this shitty list is very off. it's inches away of listing bioshock infinite, I smell bullshit.
That's everytime someone starts talking about "Immersive Sims". Could've been a useful term if not for the lower IQ applying it to everything without contextual controls.
Dumb but serious question, is Iji technically an immersive sim platformer?
Why would it be?
Immersive sim seems an extremely reddity term.
They're just first person action adventure games.
>no Beyond Citadel
Post the GOATs
How I interpret immersive sim is a game that goes all in on trying to immerse you in it's world. Similar for life sims, where they have basic life elements like eating and sleeping. The two are best combined together.
That makes far more sense to me than whatever its actual definition supposedly is.
add Farming Simulator to that picture
I agree, I saw this term come up on youtube and thought "so, you mean first person rpg"?