Immersive Sim

Whoever came up with this term should seriously kill themselves, it's almost as bad as MOBA
It doesn't even make sense, an immersive simulation, that sounds more like something like the battletech pods or those megaautism tank games instead of a FPS/RPG hybrid like Deus Ex or System Shock 2.

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  1. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Just call them 0451 games

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      this literally only works for games that Origin made, anyone else that does this is a gay.

  2. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    This might've been the best "immersive sim", but they just had to explain every single interaction.

  3. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    >Whoever came up with this term
    It was Warren Spector, creator of Deus Ex. If you can create something outside of traditional genre scope, you can name it however the frick you want, kid.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      It's not outside of a traditional genre, it's literally an FPS, Warren Spector is a fricking hack and deserves absolutely no credit for shit.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        >It's not outside of a traditional genre, it's literally an FPS
        Brainlet

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          >NOO YOU CAN SNEAK PAST ENEMIES SO IT'S LITERALLY A DIFFERENT GENRE
          Room Temperature IQ

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            That's why you are brainlet, you don't even understand what's the difference between immersive sim and fps.

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              I don't think you understand that it's still a first person shooter, and calling it an immersive sim is a moronic term that says absolutely nothing of the genre, as said in the OP it's like a MOBA it's a meaningless term.
              FPS/RPG is a decent term but I prefer FPS Adventure or Action-Adventure game myself because that's exactly what they are.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >FPS Adventure
                Oh yeah and where Thief enters? Because it doesn't play like any fps
                >Action-Adventure
                This even more moronic you are saying to me Deus Ex is the same genre as Uncharted or Tomb Raider?

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >Oh yeah and where Thief enters? Because it doesn't play like any fps
                I would put in in a category I call "trash" because it fricking sucks

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            yeah, actually

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        >there is zero difference between Deus Ex and Doom

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          Call of Duty is also different from Doom? Doom is also different from Wolfenstein, it being different doesn't make it a different genre.

          At best you can call Deus Ex an FPS with RPG elements, which again is a normal thing to call something. You do not need to invent some stupid fake genre because a game has a (minor) experience system and an unusual accuracy mechanic. As the other poster said, it's literally an FPS.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          It's more accurate to say there is zero difference from Deus Ex to Unreal or Doom to System Shock but yes there is a difference however it's not major and it's more inline with the evolution to an FPS than a full genre shift, you can play System Shock like Doom and you can Play Deus Ex like unreal and if you claim you can't you are a moron, even if it's not the intended way to play it's a viable way to play.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            This wouldn't even make sense as a comparison of fps games. You can't play System Shock like Doom because there's like 2 projectile enemies in all of System Shock and enough hitscanners to make a comparison to Blood vaguely more accurate.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >Warren Spector, creator of Deus Ex
      subtly the funniest post of the year

  4. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    >doesn't include the two games that literally invented the genre
    Jesus fricking christ

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Did they ever figure out mouse look for these?

    • 3 months ago
      koshkamail

      Yeah, just read the title.

  5. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Skyrim is the best immersive sim

  6. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    what is the definitive trait of the genre?

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >It's an immersive simulation game in that you are made to feel you're actually in the game world with as little as possible getting in the way of the experience of "being there." Ideally, nothing reminds you that you're just playing a game -- not interface, not your character's back-story or capabilities, not game systems, nothing. It's all about how you interact with a relatively complex environment in ways that you find interesting (rather than in ways the developers think are interesting), and in ways that move you closer to accomplishing your goals (not the developers' goals)

  7. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Hideo 'failed movie director' Kojima did
    It's what he called his shitty MGS series because it's more about cinematic and directing than gameplay

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      genuinely curious how you got this impression

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        It literally is what he claimed it is
        It was an immersive sim of a spy-action genre that he, of course, according to his fanbois, invented

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          So, let's start simple. What exactly are the supposed parallels between games Kojima has directed and games like Ultima Underworld, Deus Ex, or Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines?

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            Sweetie, I don't like Hideo 'failed movie director' Kojima's sloppy shit he calls 'cinematic'.
            Perhaps start a MGS thread and ask his fanbois or email the homosexual himself and he'll respond with 'Ii invent camera' or whatever sperg shit he thinks he did in reality

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              I have never seen a Jimbo thread on Ganker where someone praised him for his ridiculous statements. Are you suffering from paranoia?

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              Okay...what does that have to do with so-called immersive sims?

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        Name one thing Hideo "La Creatividad" Kojima didn't invent.
        I'm waiting.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          good dialogue

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Tactical Espionage Action

  8. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    People get way too worked up about genres and subgenres and things, I have to assume it's an autism thing. Like the kinds of people who freak out if different foods touch on their plate.

  9. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Maybe it should be named something like “shock-like” so it fits into every other unimaginative genre name these

  10. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    >thief 1 outside of basis
    >mankind divided and prey 2017 in top notch
    >bioshock in popular, but bloodlines is not an immersive sim
    excuse me, what kind of corporate shill made this shit?

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      A literal slav made it don't expect it to be good or accurate.

    • 3 months ago
      koshkamail

      Thief1 was rough. Thief2 improved its every mechanics (but the horror).
      Yes, Prey & DX MD are top-notch games. Not CrueltySquad and not Deathpoop, surprise-surprise!
      Bioshock is popular, imagine that.
      VtMB is RPG, not a simulator - what kind of corporate shill you'd have to swallow to type this comment?

  11. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Bioshit is not an imsim

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Why not?

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        If Bioshock is one, then Half-Life 1+2 and Doom 3 are also Immersive Sims.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          I mean, in Bioshock's defense, the use of physical elements is still pretty in line with games archetypal of that label insofar as how it affects combat. Bioshock's mission design is just made for elementary school kids, which is absolutely invalidating of player autonomy.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            >the use of physical elements is still pretty in line with games archetypal of that label
            Meaning?

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              Electricity behaves in water in a way that at least resembles real life. Fire behaves with oil in a similar way. These are just shallow because they are only in service of direct combat. I don't remember if the ice plasmid interacts with water at all.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                That would make Half-Life an Immersive Sim too then.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                Depends, can you electrify water absolutely anywhere where there is water? Or is it just 'this one electrified body of water in this one corridor here'?

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                That’s a scripted occurrence you can’t play around with it or use it to any actual advantage.

                You can turn power on and off here and kill enemies with it. Later, you also control Air Strikes at one point with an interactive map, or lure an enemy into a big electrocution trap.
                How often does it need to occur to count as Immersive Sim?

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >you also control Air Strikes at one point with an interactive map, or lure an enemy into a big electrocution trap.
                Once again scripted sequences that does nothing for players choices.

                >How often does it need to occur to count as Immersive Sim?
                There is no set amount. It’s about giving the player the tools to do it when they see fit.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >It’s about giving the player the tools to do it when they see fit.
                Then why are Bloodlines and Thief 1 not listed under "Basis", but Bioshock is in popular? The only choice in Bioshock is your choice of weapon, no?

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >lure an enemy into a big electrocution trap
                The boss? Isn't that basically how it's supposed to work?
                >How often does it need to occur to count as Immersive Sim?
                'Immersive Sim' is a bad term and I try to refrain from using it, however I think the proper frame to view that concept is more as a category of design ideas than a category of games themselves. The games that are called Immersive Sims most often are simply games made with explicit goal of adhering to that kind of design as much as was possible. Even within that label, there's a lot of variation in terms of that adherence. Ultima Underworld probably being the most 'simulator' game among them, down to your character's eating and sleeping still making more logical sense than in Red Dead Redemption II, but features a rudimentary conversation system (sadly it's exactly as advanced as conversation systems in games today). System Shock doesn't feature any elemental simulation to speak of in my memory, and Deus Ex maybe marginally more. Thief will maintain an objectives screen at all times, breaking diegesis significantly more than System Shock did.
                Basically, immersive sim 'elements' are all about simulating a more complete reality without arbitrary limits that keep you in a 'game'. Ideally, you can manipulate anything in a simulated world, not just what the game designer has said you can pick up. Elements like water and fire work like in real life and everywhere like in real life. Sound is affected by distance and the surfaces involved, and have a spectrum of reactions within the AI.
                And a general emphasis on player autonomy via a lack of handholding and openness toward player methods of problem-solving whereby the reality systems mentioned above may interact in ways the devs didn't intend, simply because they didn't hardcode solutions out of the game. Thanks for reading my blog.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >Thief will maintain an objectives screen at all times, breaking diegesis significantly more than System Shock did
                Every Immersive Sim has clear objectives of what you should do next, how those objectives are presented to you is completely irrelevant to the gameplay.
                >Basically, immersive sim 'elements' are all about simulating a more complete reality without arbitrary limits that keep you in a 'game'.
                Then Bioshock is not an Immersive Sim and should not be on this list at all, and Fallout should be put on it.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >Then Bioshock is not an Immersive Sim and should not be on this list at all
                Not the game as a whole simply because I don't think Ken Levine has ever been interested in that stuff, but those elements are and the fact they were included in a game not concerned with simulated reality seems like what I would've called progress if the industry were in better shape since 2007.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >but those elements
                homie you literally upgrade magic power and weapons at vending machines. I have no idea what game with Immersive Sim elements you played, but it wasn't Bioshock

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                Yes, as I said in some post ago, the fact that electricity consistently works in a way a analogous to real life is a element of what makes so-called immersive sims what they are.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                Except if the electricity is controlled by a light switch (like in Half-Life 1), then it doesn't count?

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                I'd call it a relatively limited implementation of the real effect of electricity in contact with water.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                limited implementation of electricity (NOT Immersive Sim):
                >water on floor
                >hit light switch
                >floor is electrified
                >can now kill enemy and you (does nothing else)
                full-on popular implementation of electricity (100% Immersive Sim):
                >water on floor
                >electricity comes magically out of character
                >floor is electrified
                >can now kill enemy and you (does nothing else)

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                comes magically out of character
                That's not the only source of electricity in Bioshock. iirc the flamethrower's electric gel ammo has the same effect in bodies of water. What this means is that the player is less likely to think "this power or this gun does X" and more likely to think "electricity does X, and this power and this gun release electricity", though ideally you'd want more than just two gameplay tools doing something like that in a simulated reality. As long as there are more types of scenarios where electricity does X or even a higher number of the same single type, yeah I'd consider that a relatively greater use of the 'electricity does X' simulation; not perfect or ideal, just higher up the ladder. If that framework places that aspect of Bioshock above that aspect of Half-Life, then so be it.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >That's not the only source of electricity in Bioshock. iirc the flamethrower's electric gel ammo has the same effect in bodies of water.
                What this boils down to is that the environment has sometimes patches of stuff that the player can use his own stuff on and create an effect. For example, exploding barrels and crates in Half-Life ("environmental patches of stuff") can be interacted with the help of ~12-13 weapons ("player's stuff) to make them explode. This will not only destroy nearby enemies, but also various destructible objects like wooden crates. This would make Half-Life and most FPS games Immersive Sims.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >Immersive Sims
                I guess we just aren't gonna see eye-to-eye on whether this term makes more sense to apply to entire games or just their moving parts.
                >For example, exploding barrels and crates
                >will not only destroy nearby enemies, but also various destructible objects like wooden crates
                >This would make Half-Life and most FPS games Immersive Sims
                I'd argue that programming the explosion to have effects other than damage to enemies definitely comes from that creative place in games of wanting to make a more complete virtual reality, maybe in the service of things like more enjoyable high octane action gameplay, but the end result is very much in the vein of a greater reality. In real life, water (of adequate mass) puts out fire just like in a game like Thief. In real life, an explosion (of adequate tonnage) will visibly degrade wooden structures. The difference would be whether the wooden structures are programmed to be destroyed strictly by grenades, barrels or other weapons, or if those things simply cause an explosion effect (alongside any other explosion effect throughout the game) and the wood is specifically responding to the explosion effect.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                Why haven't we gotten a good matrix game? Why let that IP rot like this when it has so much potential?

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                Best you can hope for atm are Remedy's Max Payne remakes in the northlight engine with those very nice destruction physics. I have no idea why, and this is the really moronic part, WB hasn't drafted Monolith (which they've owned for a decade) into making Matrix games instead of fricking Lord of the Rings and Wonder Woman.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                That’s a scripted occurrence you can’t play around with it or use it to any actual advantage.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                I guess Divinity Original Sin 2 is an 'immersive sim' too then?

                This shit reminds me of how people misuse RPG and roguelike to mean basically fricking anything and the genre loses all meaning because of a bunch of ignorant morons

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                see

                >lure an enemy into a big electrocution trap
                The boss? Isn't that basically how it's supposed to work?
                >How often does it need to occur to count as Immersive Sim?
                'Immersive Sim' is a bad term and I try to refrain from using it, however I think the proper frame to view that concept is more as a category of design ideas than a category of games themselves. The games that are called Immersive Sims most often are simply games made with explicit goal of adhering to that kind of design as much as was possible. Even within that label, there's a lot of variation in terms of that adherence. Ultima Underworld probably being the most 'simulator' game among them, down to your character's eating and sleeping still making more logical sense than in Red Dead Redemption II, but features a rudimentary conversation system (sadly it's exactly as advanced as conversation systems in games today). System Shock doesn't feature any elemental simulation to speak of in my memory, and Deus Ex maybe marginally more. Thief will maintain an objectives screen at all times, breaking diegesis significantly more than System Shock did.
                Basically, immersive sim 'elements' are all about simulating a more complete reality without arbitrary limits that keep you in a 'game'. Ideally, you can manipulate anything in a simulated world, not just what the game designer has said you can pick up. Elements like water and fire work like in real life and everywhere like in real life. Sound is affected by distance and the surfaces involved, and have a spectrum of reactions within the AI.
                And a general emphasis on player autonomy via a lack of handholding and openness toward player methods of problem-solving whereby the reality systems mentioned above may interact in ways the devs didn't intend, simply because they didn't hardcode solutions out of the game. Thanks for reading my blog.

                >I think the proper frame to view that concept is more as a category of design ideas than a category of games themselves

  12. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Is Dark Messiah any good?

  13. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    I just call them crpgs, some good ones in that pic
    I guess some of those aren't rpgs though

  14. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    How is Bioshock 2 and E.Y.E. Divine Cybermancy considered the same level of "indy"? Bioshock 2 was packaged with a vinyl record of all things.

    • 3 months ago
      koshkamail

      E.Y.E. is indie. Wake the f*** up.
      It's the Bioshock'2s DLC placed to the indie sphere cause it was done by only 9 devs. Wash your e.y.e.s.

  15. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    something about this shitty list is very off. it's inches away of listing bioshock infinite, I smell bullshit.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      That's everytime someone starts talking about "Immersive Sims". Could've been a useful term if not for the lower IQ applying it to everything without contextual controls.

  16. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Dumb but serious question, is Iji technically an immersive sim platformer?

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Why would it be?

  17. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Immersive sim seems an extremely reddity term.
    They're just first person action adventure games.

    • 3 months ago
      koshkamail

      with stealth and variability.

  18. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    >no Beyond Citadel

  19. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Post the GOATs

  20. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    How I interpret immersive sim is a game that goes all in on trying to immerse you in it's world. Similar for life sims, where they have basic life elements like eating and sleeping. The two are best combined together.
    That makes far more sense to me than whatever its actual definition supposedly is.

  21. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    add Farming Simulator to that picture

  22. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    I agree, I saw this term come up on youtube and thought "so, you mean first person rpg"?

    • 3 months ago
      koshkamail

      Morrowind, Fallout3 and CP2077 are first-persom RPGs - and they are far away from immersive simulators.

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