In a state where I'm once again coping that Thief is the answer to all my problems.

In a state where I'm once again coping that Thief is the answer to all my problems.

So, back when I played a bit of thief. The best way I could describe it is "loose" like most stealth games. Not gunna elaborate specifically on that cuz it should be pretty obvious what that means if you're not moronic.

What I remember, was that the stealth felt very stupid because guards were dumb, and just hiding in the shadow for an opportunity was so straightforward that I never really thought about. Water arrows, Moss arrows, Rope arrows are a cool idea in theory, and Infact the main thing that draws me, since they turn the game into more of a sort of light adventure game. But I found that most of the times you're expected to use them are pretty straightforward, or just unnecessary.

I can't remember a single time I actually particularly had to think in regards to thief. It was just about patience and going slow. Nothing more, nothing less. Honestly people make it sound so much more complicated than it is with the way they wank light and sound, you go in expecting so much more.

And on the topic of level design. This Is more complicated to dissect and I could write an essay on it (I did in the past) but basically it's another one of those levels I like to describe as "meandering" or "wandering". There are so many levels where I'd just wander around till I got to where I was going. It's not the same as being "lost" because in the end, I was found the way forward without thinking about it. But I'd almost describe thief as "too open" for its own good. There is so much wasted space. So many rooms with either nothing in it. Or random shitty treasure that never feels that rewarding personally cuz it's just the equivalent of a fetch quest.

Anyway, so what's the point of this thread? To just ask if I missed anything about the game cuz I like the idea and stuff.

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  1. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Black person I aint reading all of that, just fricking play it, if you like it, keep playing it, if you don't, go and play something else.

    The frick is wrong with people.

  2. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    go join a gaming forum to spew thoughts like this, Ganker is for spamming memes

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      what the Anon above me said. try rpgcodex. pic related is a good thought in regards to Thief
      stealth games are bad

      My problem is that gaming forums tend to either be dead in my experience, or don't update actively like text messages. Does that make sense?

      You're probably right, and Ganker really isn't the place for me in my experience. I've had somebody tell me to my face that my threads don't get engagement because im not interesting, even compared to all the bait threads. Which is funny because interesting is subjective so he essentially made a circular argument. But reality and especially humans aren't logical, so he's probably right regardless. It's less interesting to engage with posts like mine, than to just shitpost in all the stealth porn threads and politics threads.

      It's such a depressing fact to have to confront but..
      whatever man I guess lel.

  3. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    what the Anon above me said. try rpgcodex. pic related is a good thought in regards to Thief
    stealth games are bad

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Based Desperados boomer, and he's describing Hitman as well, both mog Thief

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Most Thief levels on Expert disallow you from killing anyone. The exceptions are the levels where you're dealing with undead which are a change of pace from the stealth gameplay.
      The biggest problem I have with Thief is how much you can abuse quicksaving, which is a problem in a lot of games, in particular PC games. For stealth games it's a major issue because instead of having to plan things out and deal with your choices you can just trial and error it until you get the result you want. Yes you can just not use saves but then it becomes a question of when exactly is a "fair" time to save, it turns into an annoying arbitrary guessing game, it's much better when the developers actually put thought into it.

  4. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Props to actually playing the games before shitting on them unlike most of Ganker. But I can't agree with much of this.

    >guards were dumb, and just hiding in the shadow for an opportunity was so straightforward that I never really thought about
    No arguments here

    >But I found that most of the times you're expected to use them are pretty straightforward, or just unnecessary.
    Can't agree, Thief 2 in particular has a lot of cases where all the arrows and gadgets are quite useful.

    >It was just about patience and going slow. Nothing more, nothing less. Honestly people make it sound so much more complicated than it is with the way they wank light and sound, you go in expecting so much more.
    I'm sorry people exaggerated these aspects to you, but hopefully in time you can relax on that and not hold it against the games.

    >Level design paragraph

    This is where you lost me, but I think it comes down to fundamental personal preferences. I really love that Thief levels are so huge, complex and full of meaningless shit. It makes me feel like I'm in a real place, rather than just a video game space perfectly designed for stealth. I really like seeing all the attention to detail for everything, no matter how unnecessary it is from a gameplay perspective. That sort of stuff goes a long way with me. What you consider "wasted space" is detail and immersion to people like myself who have been playing these games and fan missions for decades. I like finding the treasure because it feels like a reward for being so thorough, even though it has very little intrinsic game value. I suppose a lot of the reward of Thief is extrinsic in that sense, stuff like immersion, atmosphere, worldbuilding etc that tickles a part of your brain but has little to do with the gameplay itself.

    Its probably just not the series for you, but props for giving it a go. For reference, some of my favourite games are other immersive sims, the old Resident Evils and dungeon crawlers.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >No arguments here

      I mean there literally are. The fact you don't engage with them or actually sufficiently demonstrate how they're invalid makes me uninterested in continuing this further. Probably last chance I'll give.

      >Can't agree, Thief 2 in particular has a lot of cases where all the arrows and gadgets are quite useful.

      I don't know what you're responding to? Nobody said anything about them not being useful. It's that they're either straightforward or unnecessary. Believe it or not. "Necessary" and "Useful" are different words. Crazy right. Wtf man. I'm getting so discouraged immediately again from ever trying to have discussions on Ganker. How does this happen so frequently.

      >I'm sorry people exaggerated these aspects to you, but hopefully in time you can relax on that and not hold it against the games.

      Yeah well. Doesn't make them any less simplistic, whether people exaggerated them or not, they don't meaningfully or substantially contribute any depth to the game.

      Stand in the blackest shadows. Don't stand in the lightest shadows right behind a guard. If you need a blacker shadow then shoot a water arrow. It's pretty straightforward, and infact, I don't think I ever even remember using the sound system. I'm pretty sure I played the game largely with the sound off or low. Especially because the guards are fricking annoying. The game simply isn't that deep.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        “No arguments here” usually means that the writer/speaker doesn’t have any counterarguments. It means agreement

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Oh sorry if I misunderstood. I'm used to be disagreed with on here without sufficient reason, so I interpreted it as saying "You're not making an argument". My bad, my apologies. I can obviously be a bit defensive or stand offish as you can see because I've been targeted and lambasted on here pretty commonly. My perspective on how people communicate here, is a bit warped therefore.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        "No arguments here" means I agree with you, ESL-kun.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >but I think it comes down to fundamental personal preferences.

      Yes. As all videogames are.

      >I really love that Thief levels are so huge, complex and full of meaningless shit. It makes me feel like I'm in a real place, rather than just a video game space perfectly designed for stealth. I really like seeing all the attention to detail for everything, no matter how unnecessary it is from a gameplay perspective.

      At the very least, this is the first reply you've given that I can respect. I disagree, and think it's a stupid perspective because videogames can feel real AND have meaningful use. My favourite examples is Dark Souls 1. But I have a feeling people would say "It's not real enough" because "dying desolate world with magical powers" may sound too far fetched subjectively (which I want to reinforce btw that a Vidya place feeling "real" is ultimately subjective anyway)

      But another even BETTER example. Is Outer Wilds. One of the most humble, simple and focused games ever. Wastes absolutely no space whatsoever, ever area, space and interaction is meticulously designed and purposeful, aswell as equally unpurposeful (made up word for my convenience) particularly before the world reveals something you used to think to be unpurposeful as purposeful

      >I like finding the treasure because it feels like a reward for being so thorough, even though it has very little intrinsic game value. I suppose a lot of the reward of Thief is extrinsic in that sense, stuff like immersion, atmosphere, worldbuilding etc that tickles a part of your brain but has little to do with the gameplay itself.

      You're using the word wrong. Extrinsic means that the game itself gives it value. And Intrinsic means that you derive value from the game...just because, the game doesn't make that value in any particular way, you just like it.

      That's what tends to be the case for more subjective, and gameplay unrelated things like atmosphere, immersion, world building and story etc.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Its probably just not the series for you, but props for giving it a go.

      Probably yeah, unlucky I guess.

      >For reference, some of my favourite games are other immersive sims, the old Resident Evils and dungeon crawlers.

      Kek, maybe this means something. I despise the entire concept of "immersive sim" and think it's a completely made up word. I also hate most of the classic resident evil games except 2 the least. And I've literally played all of them except for the spinoffs and 1. But my relationship with Resident Evil is more complicated because I actually like the concept, and idea, I just hate some of the way it's done.

      And the only dungeon crawler I've played is System Shock Remake, and I also didn't like it much. But unlike thief, it's for a similar and different reason to it's level design.

  5. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >And on the topic of level design. This Is more complicated to dissect and I could write an essay on it (I did in the past) but basically it's another one of those levels I like to describe as "meandering" or "wandering". There are so many levels where I'd just wander around till I got to where I was going. It's not the same as being "lost" because in the end, I was found the way forward without thinking about it. But I'd almost describe thief as "too open" for its own good. There is so much wasted space. So many rooms with either nothing in it. Or random shitty treasure that never feels that rewarding personally cuz it's just the equivalent of a fetch quest.
    Entire thing here vs average level design is Looking Glass made proper locations rather than just game levels. You're meant to be lost until you find your way around. Nothing is telegraphed to you and even the maps are usually just sketches rather than pixel accurate topographic representations.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Entire thing here vs average level design is Looking Glass made proper locations rather than just game levels. You're meant to be lost until you find your way around. Nothing is telegraphed to you and even the maps are usually just sketches rather than pixel accurate topographic representations.

      Something I don't like about a lot of "boomer" gamers, that they do often in arguments is that they lecture or explain rather than actually making an argument. Honestly I'm not even mad about it here, because you haven't been bad faith, so excuse me if I'm being a bit abrasive. But let's just breakdown what you said for a second.

      "Entire thing here vs average level design is"

      This is an explanation. You realize that right? I never brought up any other stealth games in my analysis of thief because it's unfair too. It's an old game, and it can be evaluated on its own merit. The fact that it isn't like something else doesn't make it better or worse. "Good" shouldn't be a preference. So whether it's like "typical" level design or not is irrelevant. Especially because level design being designed like Game levels can be a good thing. And I can think of a dozen games that try to be "proper locations" that are ultimately empty: Read Dead Redemption 2, Most Assassin's Creed Games, Call of Duty games, etc. All these games have a high attention to detail and make their places look "proper" but suck at making them actually interesting to engage with.

      Also at the end you said "Nothing is telegraphed to you" which reads to me as another explanation because I never complained that nothing was telegraphed, and you also explain that I'm "meant to be lost" but I explicitly said in my post that I DONT feel lost. Because that's an important distinction to me. It feels like wandering my way to where I need to go. Not actually thinking about how to navigate something complex. I never actually felt lost because id just stumble to the right place.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >it's not an argument because I can't follow any explanation that is longer than one sentence
        You are actually a woman, right?
        Typical woman behaviour: short attention span and incapable of following anything slightly more complex than a couple words, yet expecting others to listen to your endless monologues.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Are you guys mentally ill? Literally everything was addressed to a T in that reply. You MUST be mentally ill otherwise because not only have you ironically not actually made a point or argument specifically here. But you're also literally just ignoring reality to craft a version that you like better and project it onto someone else.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Literally everything was addressed to a T in that reply
            but it wasn't an argument

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              And in what way was it not an argument? Because I deliberately and explicitly elaborated on why it wasn't in regards to that guy, and you conveniently didn't address any of that, just to make some moronic genuinely delusional and mentally ill likening to "This is typical woman behaviour and that's bad because I'm a brainrotted bot that thinks woman bad because I feel like it"

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >I deliberately and explicitly elaborated
                so you lectured and explained, instead of giving an argument, m'lady

  6. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    shitty thread from another braindead zoomer incapable of noticing good game design

  7. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I haven’t played Thief but I assume the levels are mazelike like a lot of older games. Just enough to them to keep you from just going in a straight line or finding the correct path right away but not complex enough to make you get really lost and frustrated.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It's less about it just being mazelike, and the fact that levels genuinely feel too "open". It unironically feels like a lot of wasted space sometimes. Like rooms are just there just for rooms to be there and make the place feel "real" and less to have any actual engaging gameplay element.

      But yeah, this thread is dead so it doesn't really matter that much does it.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Thief was already experimenting and pushing the medium in ways no one had seen before; you can't expect it to retroactively check all the boxes you came up with over 20 years later. Besides, Deus Ex 1 is an example of a game that fills in a lot of that empty space you see in Thief with alternative pathways, nooks and crannies with hidden rewards or just lore/world building areas. And what would you know it was inspired by and made by some of the guys that made Thief, crazy. Almost as if the devs would have included these features in Thief if it was made later on and not as one of devs first games.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Uh sure. Whatever bro, because my argument was definitely that it didn't check boxes in games 20 years later??? Because no other games has big complex levels that didnt feel empty with little carefully utilized space. You're so smart literally making up arguments projected from your deluded mind to argue against. Whatever.

          Also Deus ex came out literally only 3 months after Thief 2. And System Shock 2 came out 2 years before it. You're moronic. But again. Whatever.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >devs first games
          Is here maybe a dev present?

  8. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I was gonna reply in good faith to your counter points but you've chosen to be a snippy, feminine homosexual about it so I'm not gonna bother. Talk like a man if you want people to engage with you on a genuine level.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >I was gonna reply in good faith to your counter points

      Don't really need any more replies then, since plenty others were able to do it already.

      >but you've chosen to be a snippy, feminine homosexual about it so I'm not gonna bother. Talk like a man if you want people to engage with you on a genuine level.

      I don't even know why I'm doing this, since any moron that characterizes and dismisses somebody on such an arbitrary basis couldn't possibly have the capacity to be good faith. But I'll bite.

      What metric are you using to determine a form of speech as "feminine", what are the parameters of that metric. And what is the basis of the idea that somebody shouldn't be engaged with for being "feminine"?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >what are the parameters of sounding snippy and feminine

        Overuse of question marks that make you sound overly emotional and like the person saying it is a dumbass. Look into "uptalk" and realise thats how people read you. Immediately whining and becoming discouraged at the slightest disagreement. Sperging out over someone gently disagreeing with you and resorting to personal attacks.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Overuse of question marks that make you sound overly emotional and like the person saying it is a dumbass.

          "Sound like"

          "Like"

          >Look into "uptalk" and realise thats how people read you.

          "Read you"

          >Immediately whining and becoming discouraged at the slightest disagreement. Sperging out over someone gently disagreeing with you and resorting to personal attacks.

          "gently disagreeing with you"

          "personal attacks"

          Kek holy fricking shit. I really should have put "objective" in front of metric like I initially intended to, but I kind of wanted to bait a response this stupid tho.

          The most baffling thing about this response is how much it genuinely sounds like something I've heard on R*ddit. Like almost exactly to a T. They even used the same word "personal attacks".

          I always theorized why Ganker is so genuinely shit and moronic. Everytime I said "Ganker is like r*ddit" I meant it, but at the same time I sort of doubted myself.

          But seeing THESE responses. This many of these type of responses in a row, that use words that are so similar and exact to the same ones that were used on R*ddit?

          It really puts my theory into perspective. Ganker ACTUALLY is reddit. Like LITERALLY r*ddit, down to its core. The same arbitrary dismissiveness, where they never actually need to justify anything they say. Never apply context. Always try deflect to a perceived aspect of someone's character (I don't even think anybody here understands what "perceived character" means else they wouldn't be responding like this) And pulls the same passive aggressive shit where they are literally calling you "emotional" to be dismissive and then will be like "I'm gently disagreeing with you". Holy shit it's comical.

          The only barely meaningful difference is that you'll be called a slur on Ganker. This is genuinely so fascinating. For how much this place lambasts r*ddit, it is literally exactly like it in substance.

          Thanks for helping to prove this theory.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Dude you've made so many of these threads and so many of these posts, who are you trying to fool? You're just as big a schizo as the people who spam the same threads over and over, you just think more highly of yourself. You're not smart, you're annoying, and yes there is a difference.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >Dude you've made so many of these threads and so many of these posts, who are you trying to fool? You're just as big a schizo as the people who spam the same threads over and over, you just think more highly of yourself. You're not smart, you're annoying, and yes there is a difference.

              Wow. Nice non argument "your just the same because i feel like it and my feelings are right" why are you even in this thread lmao? If you want to validate your feelings you can deal with it on your own. You're not even responding to anyone or anything here so just leave. Kek. Jesus Christ some of you are seriously fricking stupid, like no self awareness whatsoever I don't know how you get through the day.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I am once again reminding anons that OP is a repeat offender. He does this multiple times a week, spews walls of text without inviting discussion before devolving into nonsensical diatribes and arguing with people in the thread.

      He's the worst person on Ganker by a country mile. Once I learned to recognize his style and manner of replying to others I began to hate him more than ick on eck, more than Kris, more than ACgay and all the various schizos. Because he's just a genuinely terrible person who thinks he's immune to criticism because he types more than the average Ganker poster.

      This is how anyone who enters a thread from this homosexual OP should reply before promptly closing the tab. He's an actual piece of shit, a disgrace to imageboards and chan culture.

  9. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Put down the adderall and stop taking everything written on a Cantonese basket weaving forum so personally man. You seem very frustrated and unnecessarily emotional over the fact that you don't like a stealth game series from the 90s. You don't seem like a happy person.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I won't say anymore because what I'm about to say speaks for itself. But it's funny how this statement sounds EXACTLY like something straight out of reddit. Like exactly. Only redditors from my experience, randomly focus so specifically on their perceived impression of someone's emotions and happiness as an excuse to never engage with anything said. I have to imagine it's some sort of programmed response to contention and dissent, because Reddit TRULY cannot handle disagreement, or differing expressions and temperaments.

      You don't have to reply. I've said all I wanted to :p

  10. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    671727053
    homosexual

  11. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The most valuable thing to me was the atmosphere. It’s akin to a minor religious experience that a game has been able to deliver. A beautiful unfolding of mystery and unraveling of a grand scheme. Problem with modern games, even something like bioshock, feels too gamey, like it was made for the player to experience “x”. Whereas thief is not as concerned with player experience, but rather it’s its own world where you just happen to be there, in a sincere way. I struggle to articulate this but I hope you are able to see where I’m coming from.

    For example, my favourite level - Life of The Party. So many unique NPCs with their own lives which you get to experience voyeuristically like Hitchwiener’s Rear Window and then finally seeing the Mechanist tower with the winged angel . The realisation that only half the level is over, is truly mindblowing. It’s hard to describe but I felt the world they created feels broad, limitless, mysterious with the war between two religious groups, the music, the scriptures, etc. All of this compensates for the jank, enemy ai and dated gameplay mechanics.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I guess I can understand this somewhat. I guess I just value gameplay too much. Things like "atmosphere" or "feeling like you're in a world" are far too subjective and nebulous for me. They can't directly translate to anything, and they're also so immediate to appreciate. The closest I can analogize is Silent Hill 2. I genuinely feel scared and unsettled by that game, like I'm going through a (boring) dream world. Where nothing quite makes sense. But when I think back to the game. I can't actually remember any of those "feelings" or "vibes" I can only recall that I DID feel them. Because there's no substance there for me to hold onto and appreciate. It's "immediate" as I said. I felt it because I just did. There's no coherence or rationality to it. No reason for it meaning anything. I just happened to feel something.

      The only time I get any "feelings" of the game resurface, is when I listen to the OST. And not even every song, just some. Like especially "True"

  12. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous
  13. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Emilslop
    Lmao

  14. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    You type like a massive homosexual OP. And I'm not saying it because I disagree with you or anything(never played Thief), but try acting less gay if you actually want some discussion. Or just go back to where you originally came from

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >but try acting less gay if you actually want some discussion.

      I almost wish, because I'm more good faith than you deserve. That people like you would understand, that the EXACT type of person that doesn't want to have a "discussion" because of a perceived impression of somebody acting "gay". Is the exact type of person that fundementally cannot be good faith or objective enough to have a meaningful discussion. I could explain this in depth, but honestly. It's such a fricking pain when I know it's not worth it and nobody will care. Because I know none of you are remotely responding this way on any logical basis, because literally the number one logical fallacy ever that almost everybody knows is "Ad hominem". And your entire point is basically justifying the concept of ad hominem. And anybody who justifies ad hominem is a fundementally illogical person, and discussion without logic is meaningless. It's just an affirmation, and validation of one person's ideas compared to another's. It can be reduced to the principle of "You're a moron for not liking chocolate ice cream and should have a nice day. I like chocolate ice cream because I have taste"

      *sigh* I'm tired. My faith in Ganker just died again and it doesn't matter one bit. Cuz nothing matters here.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >"try to be less gay"
        >gay wall of text

  15. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    yeye

  16. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >le *sigh*
    >faith in humanity status: lost

  17. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    dunno wtf happened but it was only supposed to be directed to OP's post

  18. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Reddit spacing
    Didn't read any of that not any of the other posts in your dogshit thread

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Case in point, look at him still going. He did not make a thread about Thief, and he does not want to talk about game design. He wants to simultaneously fight anons and sniff his own farts.

      Guy, every single thing you post on Ganker is filibustering an admission of your own midwit homosexualry. Log off or rip the cord out, because you're obviously too much of a b***h to have a nice day.

      Based. He actually called me a stalker too LMFAO

  19. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    >Can you please elaborate on that?

    I'll elaborate if you help report this

    I am once again reminding anons that OP is a repeat offender. He does this multiple times a week, spews walls of text without inviting discussion before devolving into nonsensical diatribes and arguing with people in the thread.

    He's the worst person on Ganker by a country mile. Once I learned to recognize his style and manner of replying to others I began to hate him more than ick on eck, more than Kris, more than ACgay and all the various schizos. Because he's just a genuinely terrible person who thinks he's immune to criticism because he types more than the average Ganker poster.

    This is how anyone who enters a thread from this homosexual OP should reply before promptly closing the tab. He's an actual piece of shit, a disgrace to imageboards and chan culture.

    Unbelievable moron that obsessively stalks from thread to thread to harass, that mods are too much of fricking vegetables to ever fricking do anything about despite the fact he should so fricking clearly be perma banned if they remotely did their jobs instead of posting in femboy threads like the worthless losers they are.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      have a nice day troon

  20. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    what are some games

  21. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >I played the game largely with the sound off or low.

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