Is Dark Souls the first truly hard rpg? Or is it the first too hard rpg?

Is Dark Souls the first truly hard rpg? Or is it the first too hard rpg?

  1. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Not RPG.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >has saving and loading
      >has weapons
      >has currency
      >has stats
      >has enemies
      "HURRR DUUUR NOT REAL ERPEEGEE ONLY BUILDERS GAYT REAL ERPEEGEE"
      Just be honest say you dont like videogames.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        bro, that's Super Mario Bros. for the NES

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I have found games that are just for you;
        https://etechstudios.itch.io/sbawngus

        ?t=707

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >>has saving and loading
        Isn't Souls closer to a checkpoint system?

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >has saving and loading
        duh
        >has weapons
        3pt shooting, stealing, etc.
        >has currency
        your points to improve
        >has stats
        duh
        >has enemies
        the opposing team

        NBA 2K MyPlayer is a RPG.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        The absolute state of this board. The lack of coherent thought, critical thinking and lack of self awareness is saddening.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          he's stupid and his reasoning sucks dick, but he's right at the end of the day. They are RPGs. They have builds that wildly affect play style, they have gear, stats, and leveling that also greatly affect gameplay. What else do you want? ARPGs are a subgenre of RPGs whether you like it or not. You can hate them all you want, but if you disagree, you're wrong, period.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            So games like Gradius are RPGs because you can customize what sort of load out your ship can get, obtain points to upgrade your ship, and decide what to upgrade when? It affects your play style, especially how your options follow you or the types of missile (or bomb) you obtain, along with shielding.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >It affects your play style
              But not enough. Compare an Ultra Greatsword build vs. a sorceries build and tell me with a straight face that it's the same level of variance in gameplay that you'd find in Gradius. Yeah, didn't think so...
              Diablo is a lot closer to Dark Souls than Gradius is. Next you're gonna tell me Diablo is not an RPG... or that the Ys series are not RPGs. They're Action RPGs, but RPGs nonetheless

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >But not enough
                Have you not played Gradius? Do you know how radically different your play style will be if the options don't trail you and are always in a fixed spread? You can't line them up to focus fire bosses anymore, or lead them into a line that will eventually go into a hard to reach spot, or try to get them above you when you expect threats to come from above. Are you also telling me the play style of someone with a 45 degree secondary shot will be the same as the person with the tail shot?

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >It affects your play style
              But not enough. Compare an Ultra Greatsword build vs. a sorceries build and tell me with a straight face that it's the same level of variance in gameplay that you'd find in Gradius. Yeah, didn't think so...
              Diablo is a lot closer to Dark Souls than Gradius is. Next you're gonna tell me Diablo is not an RPG... or that the Ys series are not RPGs. They're Action RPGs, but RPGs nonetheless

              >Next you're gonna tell me Diablo is not an RPG... or that the Ys series are not RPGs
              then again I wouldn't be surprised if you did think Diablo and Ys are not RPGs. After all, this is the board that says any Elder Scrolls that came after Morrowind is not an RPG... Sure Skyrim is more of an ARPG than Morrowind or Daggerfall, but it's an ARPG, which is a subtype of RPG.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >After all, this is the board that says any Elder Scrolls that came after Morrowind is not an RPG.
                No one says that but Notrpgtard, who only includes BG1 and rando slavjank titles as RPGs. He doesn't speak for anyone else here but himself.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Incorrect. You have to go back.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Post your games list then.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I don't share or discuss my exquisite taste with trannies and other undesirables like you.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              You're not even original, I trolled you with Gradius before when you started all that retarded Shadow over Mystara bullshit because of whatever got up your ass last week.

              If you're going to be such a lame calcified brain autist yuropoor you could at least have a little fun sometimes instead of whining constantly about what's an RPG and what isn't. Why don't you go pick fights with Ganker or /vg/ instead of this constant tiresome bullshit that no one cares about? Who hurt you? Was it Capitalism?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                What are you talking about you schizo?

  2. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Bubsy 3D is a wayyy harder rpg.

  3. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Wizardry 4 is considered an extremely difficult game. It is unforgiving of mistakes and bad luck as its predecessor trilogy, but unlike the trilogy, there are no experience points for defeating enemies, and therefore no reward for surviving difficult battles, or opportunities to grow stronger at the player's pace. The only way a player may grow stronger is to fight their way through the current level, and find a pentagram on the next level, no matter how overwhelmingly difficult the foes on the current level may be. Some of these foes include ninjas capable of killing Werdna instantly with a critical hit, mages with area-effect spells that can wipe out entire parties of monsters, thieves who can steal items that are critical to completing the game, and clerics capable of resurrecting Werdna's fallen adversaries.

    >Like the previous trilogy, mapping out levels is vital to avoid becoming lost. But the difficulty of mapping out levels is increased. While the previous games included occasional traps that could throw the player's maps off, such as dark areas, teleporters, pits, chutes, and rotating floors, these traps and many more are abundant in "The Return of Werdna". An early level contains a minefield, with an invisible safe path that can only be discovered through exhaustive trial and error. Another level is a series of seemingly identical intersecting pathways, with rotating floor tiles on each intersection. At the top of the dungeon is the Cosmic Cube, a 3D maze consisting of dozens of rooms, connected by passageways, chutes, ladders, and teleporters, all of which have their own unique tricks, traps, and mapping difficulties. In addition, some of the most deadly foes in the game roam the cosmic cube, and because it contains the final pentagram, no further strengthening is possible.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >
      Another major example that seriously hinders unfamiliar players is the seemingly impossible task of exiting the very first room. The only way out is a hidden door that may be revealed by casting a "light" spell called "Milwa". The only way to do this is to recruit a group of Priests. This seemingly simple task is made unintuitive due to the lack of any evidence that there is a door to begin with; the necessity of recruiting a group of Clerics, which are ineffective in combat and take the place of effective combat recruits; and the need to enter combat until the Clerics cast this spell. There is no suggestion in the context of the game as to what Milwa or any other Cleric spell name means; only players familiar with prior Wizardry games would understand its function. To a player unfamiliar with these earlier Wizardry titles, it would seem that the Clerics cast a useless spell. Furthermore, the Milwa/Light spell eventually expires, meaning that there is a limited time to find the door once the spell is cast. (Acknowledging the difficulty of this very first puzzle in the game, Sir-Tech included a sealed envelope in the game package containing its solution, to be opened if the player couldn't figure it out on their own.)

    • 2 weeks ago
      Dave

      I want to check out Let's play of this... but i don't think any decent exists

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I remember reading into the development history of this game and funny enough, Wizardry 4 was so hard that it actually had financial repercussions for Sir-Tech and changed the direction of the company. The game sold very poorly and even the hardcore players that they thought would be into it didn't bite. The Wizardry series from then on would be more streamlined, less cryptic, and with a bigger emphasis on story since the lesson they took from 4's failure is that brutally difficult dungeon crawlers just weren't the future. This game kind of marks the end of the first wave of CRPGs. At least if you're into that sort of game, you have a hell of a final entry to sink your teeth into.

  4. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    another full day of shitposting and making off topic threads because you cant accept RPGs are not for you

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      after playing Dark Souls series it's hard to go back to jrpgs and wrpgs (they are so easy and dull, and the stories and fluff can't carry them)

      what do? just wait until From makes a new rpg

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Dark Souls games aren't even hard.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Dark Souls games aren't even hard
          If we say Dark Souls isn't hard then all jrpgs and wrpgs are absolutely piss easy we must admit.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            They are, no one denies it.
            Reeetards here think they are hard, because normalfags rather play skill based games with their friends, instead of playing Grind Simulator With Clichéplot Chapter 2000.

  5. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Dark Souls is hard.

    The way a lot of players - suffering from toxic false masculinity and in absolute terror of being called pussies - play, makes it harder.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >suffering from toxic false masculinity
      You don't really talk like this in real life.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Nothing wrong with being masculine, don't bring that broken fag lingo here.
      There is a point that loser syndrome makes them such tryhards though. Games are the only thing they can have success in so everything is about the ending screen or whatever and you get this constant hypercompetitive assholery subtext that they talk about and judge every game through like all the short man syndrome dudes I see IRL. They don't really belong on RPG forums if they want to talk about beat em ups like they're some hypercompetitive FGC environment. It's amusing for a little while then you get that "oh you were serious" realization.

      Whereas a lot of the time for myself I just want to unplug and immerse in something after dealing with a RL career all day. Even then I play harder stuff than most, I just don't crap on an easy game if it has great immersion like Skyrim. You can also mod it to be much more challenging and immersive at the same time, same as PKM. Sadly, those that lack ability and patience seem to be able enjoy neither. I feel bad for them always waiting for someone to give them their perfect game while shitting on everything that doesn't meet their impossible standards.

      I think they feel if they can tear down everything else that doesn't meet their standards, it somehow makes them look better by comparison, but that isn't how anything works. They're just not having fun, and they reinforce their own misery this way. I try to give them a different perspective so they can have more fun here.
      >If you're reading this and are mad now, try MHW, Vermintide 2, EDF 5 or Valheim + Legends mod you might even make a friend! and you need friends.

  6. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >playing single player games for the difficulty
    why would anyone do this?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      because they are fun and good? and beating them is satisfying? simple as.

      because no worry about lag or disconnects
      because no worrying about the meta changing and your character getting nerfed to shit
      no dealing with shitters denying your victory and making excuses
      no worry about matchmaking wasting time
      no pay2win bullshit or paywalls
      no need for teams or clans or listening to fags whine in your audio
      no worrying about cheaters on opposing team
      no worrying about shitty team mates
      play any time, practice and get good whenever you want
      online shit is garbage 90% of the time, why would anyone bother

      The very best games have always been single player particularly arcade games from the 90s and early 2000s. Capcom beat em ups, ghouls n ghosts, metal slugs, Contra, hundreds of shoot em ups, etc

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >no dealing with shitters denying your victory and making excuses
        never seen a dark souls thread before i take it?

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        also if a game isn't challenging it's not worth even 10 minutes of your time and should be deleted asap. imagine playing any game for ''the story'' or fucking wandering around aimlessly looking at scenery (exploration) lmfao

        >poser acting tough in a single-player game
        >too low IQ and testosterone to play multiplayer games
        Imagine being such a boisterous retard.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          how do you pose in a singleplayer game lmfao there's no audience or opponent to boast to goofball

          >>too low IQ and testosterone to play multiplayer games
          singleplayer games are just as challenging and complex as anything going on online, I play both but prefer single player most of the time

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >singleplayer games are just as challenging and complex
            shitter detected. you should stick to being a soulsfag if you can't even reach the ceiling in those games.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              what do you know about the ceiling in arcade games? Nothing lmfao

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                ghost and goblins is a very easy game compared to guilty gear xx or quake live.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        none of those single player games are particularly difficult since i beat all of them with just 1 day of practice
        there are shmups like dodonpachi sdoj or zillion beatz and rhythm games like ez2a/ez2dj/beatmania iidx/bms double mode but they are the exception and not the norm.
        most of the time multiplayer games are harder than single player games.
        rocket league is far harder than any contra or metal slug game.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Hey idiot, difficulty is relative to the person playing the game. I'd also like to point out that you're a fucking liar.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      also if a game isn't challenging it's not worth even 10 minutes of your time and should be deleted asap. imagine playing any game for ''the story'' or fucking wandering around aimlessly looking at scenery (exploration) lmfao

  7. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Go play Valkyrie Profile.

  8. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Dark Souls isn't hard, you can fucking stunlock the bosses.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The only bosses I'd care to stunblock by fucking are Quelaag and Priscilla. Maybe Gwyndolin if I've had a few.

  9. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    It's just the first series in a long time to not hide the difficulty behind a hard mode.
    You have to choose to get rid of the challenge, instead of having to choose to make the game challenging.
    Then people bitch when they have to lower the difficulty and admit that they can't handle having to actually try.
    They'd rather just scream that it's a problem which needs fixing, instead of a game that simply wasn't made for them.

  10. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    You're children

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      battles are piss easy in wizardry games, only challenge is navigating retarded mazes where all the corridors look the same and hidden switches have no indicators

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >roll dice
      >die instantly
      difficulty implies some control over the outcome

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >difficulty implies some control over the outcome
        welcome to life, bitch

  11. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    It's been more than ten years since it came out and I still don't fucking get how Dark Souls is any harder than most other action games.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >don't fucking get how Dark Souls is any harder than most other action games.
      because we're comparing it to rpgs, the average action game is already 10x harder than the hardest rpg

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >because we're comparing it to rpgs
        Yeah we are, here now on Ganker. However people have been calling it hard *for an action game* since the beginning, and that's what I don't get.
        How does someone go from playing Devil May Cry, God of War, Ninja Gaiden, Monster Hunter, etc. to Dark Souls, and find the latter hard?

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Souls is on par with MH and DMC, and harder than GoW for sure. It's not as hard as Ninja Gaiden though.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            So basically by your own words it's middle of the pack, which is proves my point.
            Dark Souls was absolutely memed into being considered hard, it's nothing special difficulty wise.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              It's super hard by rpg standards, it's above average by action game standards. Dmc and MH are above average difficulty, they are not the norm, games like GoW are closer to the norm for action games and Souls is harder than GoW and more akin to MH or DMC.

  12. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Not an rpg at all.
    Kill thyself 🙂

  13. 2 weeks ago
    Dave

    some boss fights are horrible bullshit
    and its just suffocating experience

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >some boss fights are horrible bullshit
      Name them pls. It's always fun to see how everybody names different bosses whenever they complain. Only bed of bullshit is universally hated.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Dave

        i don't remember the names
        it was underground dragon or something in DS1

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Gaping dragon?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Dave

            I think so.
            I don't play the game because I don't have a game controller anymore. I mostly play old racing games and keyboard is way comfier anyway. Fiddling with a stick like a retard is not.

  14. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    It's not hard. You are just not a very clever person with difficulty at pattern recognition.

  15. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The problem with dark soul is that the protagonists are very pathetically slow and weak its downright immersion breaking.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >The problem
      ???
      Thats the entire appeal.
      Thats why people play FromSoft games...

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >appeal

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Souls PC's are the strongest characters in the game. Both in terms of damage and defense. Most people get overwhelmed by the spectacle of boss attacks and assume they're playing a mook. A vocal minority is so distracted by the size difference between bosses and player that they think the game is bad and the playable character sucks, when it's in fact just a skill issue.

      Any complaints about Sekiro being weak are 100% from scrubs. Once you figure out how to use his toolkit the game's enemies are almost laughably exploitable. Deflect alone is insane and way more than what most games give you.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Considering the size of the weapons ingame, I'd say the slowness is perfectly warranted.
      Stamina is pretty much in line with every other action game.
      Weakness is absolutely a fucking idiotic accusation. You go in a boss fight with an ugs you leave after 4-5 hits.
      There's almost no action game where the mc can hit as hard as Souls mc against appropriate level opponents.

      Souls PC's are the strongest characters in the game. Both in terms of damage and defense. Most people get overwhelmed by the spectacle of boss attacks and assume they're playing a mook. A vocal minority is so distracted by the size difference between bosses and player that they think the game is bad and the playable character sucks, when it's in fact just a skill issue.

      Any complaints about Sekiro being weak are 100% from scrubs. Once you figure out how to use his toolkit the game's enemies are almost laughably exploitable. Deflect alone is insane and way more than what most games give you.

      I feel like the sekiro being weak shit comes from the thousand cuts style of play. Just think about how many times you need to slash at the ogre or monkeys before they go down, it can get very grating to people who prefer STR playstyles like me.
      It's not like playing with daggers in souls games is any better, but at least in those I have the option to put down the dagger and pick up a weapon larger than my character.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I get that. You have some hard hitting options like the axe or charged ichimonji but nothing identical to clobbering enemies with a mace as a big as a school bus. As far as vitality damage goes then yeah, Sekiro is weaker than other PC's. But of course posture damage is the main show and due to all the punishment tools you have, Sekiro boss fights are insanely short once you figure them out. Demon of Hatred is the exception and I agree that that fight is kind of frustrating, probably the weakest in the game. That he's so alternative from every other boss is probably why he's optional.

        Sekiro was a ramp up in difficulty and most new players took a long time to figure out how to deflect. They tried to dodge roll like it was dark souls and chip away at the boss' health until they could deathblow and were aghast at how it was taking them upwards of 10 minutes every attempt. This probably contributed to the perception that Sekiro is weak more than anything.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >But of course posture damage is the main show and due to all the punishment tools you have, Sekiro boss fights are insanely short once you figure them out.
          Thing is, that kinda feels like prrying in the souls rather than actual fighting. Better than the souls obviously, but still passively waiting for the enemy to self destroy upon you rather to you rekting them.
          I think people who like this style of play seriously fail to grasp how irritating it feels for the unga bunga types like me. Thank god for the bigger sword, best part of the game even if it's pay per use (another thing I absolutely hate in videogames which sekiro went all in on btw, it's like Miyazaki specifically made a game to annoy me).

  16. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    It was never hard.

  17. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    No. Dark Souls is not hard.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It was never hard.

      If Dark Souls is not hard then no rpg is hard. Simple as that since Souls is harder than any jrpg or wrpg

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Some rpgs are harder at the top difficulties, but it's typically because at that point the randomness or enemy stat buffs become system breaking.
        Certainly I can't think of any rpg that's in any way challenging on normal

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >If Dark Souls is not hard then no rpg is hard
        Correct. Video games are not hard.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >since rpgs aren't hard then no game is hard!
          that's a cope

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            No. That's a fact. Video games are easy. If they were actually hard, you wouldn't play them.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              only if you think hard=unfun and easy=fun, which is common for zoomer gamers and journos

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >only if you think hard=unfun and easy=fun
                No. Hard games simply don't exist. Anything resembling difficulty is just learning how to play the game correctly.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Hard Games don't exist
                you might believe that if all you've been doing is save scumming in turn based rpgs, grinding and using OP builds. Have you played other genres, action games? multiplayer?

                >it's just learning how to play correctly
                That's half the challenge in real time games, the other is executing what you've learned, adapting, optimizing and progressing even further, depends on the game and goal.

                Explain how this is not ''actually difficult'' or ''hard'' to attain

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                no one here will understand wtf this is or why it's so godly difficult lol

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >no one here will understand wtf this is or why it's so godly difficult lol
                Of course they have no clue how scoring works or how the loops work, but they can fast forward to the final boss and see that absolutely mental fight....

                >literally told to copy by someone who insists copymonkeying isn't a thing
                ',:^)

                obviously learning from others is very beneficial, as it is in any game or hobby

                also copying in shmups isn't like copying a turn based rpg strat (use ice missile vs fire boss!!!) because you actually need execution to perform what you learned in a full run, which is hard as fuck because even tiny mistakes are punished hard, example go watch final stage or final boss of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIELWhnLicY&

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >copymonkeying someone else's shmup route is "hard"
                it's literally just mindless grinding. shmups are the biggest difficulty wank retard genre there is

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >copying a run that doesn't exist
                do you know what beating a world record means?

                >copymonkeying bla bla bloo bloo
                so you're a failed shmupper, with no achieves, many such cases!

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >set up tas
                >commit it to memory
                woah

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                you are absolutely completely clueless. and have never beaten a hard game.
                that guy has been playing DOJ for like 20 years, he invents strats and has multiple world records, you aren't going to catch up to him in your lifetime lmfao

                Go download Mame and try dodonpachi daioujou, try to copy his first stage and match his score, see how it goes, it's only 2.5 minutes long go for it big boy

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >literally told to copy by someone who insists copymonkeying isn't a thing
                ',:^)

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Bullshit cope.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Not a cope. Video games in general aren't hard. You're just shit at video games.

  18. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    It's harder than most RPGs, but it's nowhere near ADOM, Nethack, Angbang or thank god Wizardry 4. DS is the case of a niche game getting too mainstream, hence the endless crying.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      None of those games take player skill and execution rather they take bazillion retries of rng rolls

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        These games require patience and discipline, if you're relying on RNG you're playing these games wrong, git gud.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        So they are RPGs while Souls games aren't RPGs. Got it.

  19. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    They are babbys first "hard" game.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Souls is hard for rpgs, but there's not much competition in that genre

      [...]
      If Dark Souls is not hard then no rpg is hard. Simple as that since Souls is harder than any jrpg or wrpg

      Ys Felghana on inferno is definitely hard for an rpg at least.

  20. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Girl here I never found it hard I made it to blighttown withen the first 8 hours I beat it in a week.

  21. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >souls
    >hard
    Maybe play with both hands instead of facerolling over the keyboard.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      that's not the question. Question is ; Is Dark Souls the first truly hard rpg? Or is it the first too hard rpg?

  22. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    hard to call any game where you get unlimited tries with very little punishment "hard".

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      not really, you get sent back to a checkpoint and lose souls and resources. You can tell a part is harder than another by the amount of times it makes you die and are forced to reset.
      Monster Hunter is even less punishing than Souls yet it's plainly obvious when you encounter a hard challenge.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        but is that really "hard"? did you "get good" or did you smash your face on the wall until you finally found a tender spot and broke through?

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          No, I eventually learn the boss' reactions and attack patterns and get better at the game's mechanics and beat them, typically. Although getting lucky happens every now and then. It's a challenge and I got better. Is it as hard as raising a child with autism and is the improvement as meaningful as learning a new language? No, but I don't think that using a term like "hard" or "difficult" is misplaced here. It's a hard for a videogame. That just means it takes a while to get through it.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Is it as hard as raising a child with autism
            That's hard in a painful unfun way....hard can also be enjoyable like learning a new instrument or archery, etc
            >is the improvement as meaningful as learning a new language
            It can be more meaningful than that, learning some Nigerian dialect would be meaningless to me, winning a big fighting game tournament or beating a game I find interesting could be vastly more meaningful and important to me

  23. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The only hard thing about Dark Souls is putting up with the load times if you're on console. Otherwise it's an astoundingly consequence free experience for losing.
    >But muh soul drops
    Yeah fuck you. Not only are you given a chance to reclaim them for free, you can also use certain rings to keep them anyways, there's never any reason to hold onto a shit billion of them and by the time you even CAN get a shit billion you won't need them anymore.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Punishment and challenge are not the same. A boss or hard stage can wall you off and crush you for 20 hours straight, impeding your progress, and thats a difficulty you have to learn to overcome even if your character loses nothing and you have to simply reset over and over and retry until you get good.

      For example learning an instrument is a challenge, but the challenge doesn't disappear because no one is bashing you on the head as punishment each time you make a mistake.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Punishment and challenge are not the same.
        No but getting infinite retries to replay it will almost always result in so much pattern recognition and level memorization.
        >A boss or hard stage can wall you off and crush you for 20 hours straight
        If you're retarded I suppose.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >it will almost always result in so much pattern recognition and level memorization.
          and? the more you retry the more you learn and figure out strats that work, and discard strats that don't work. That's how all hard games function lol

          >If you're retarded I suppose.
          I had MH bosses in mind when I said that, not Souls. Solo Apex lvl140 Rajang in MH4G for example

  24. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Street Fighter 2 Turbo is a harder RPG. Before you have a rebuttal it's just as RPG as Dark Souls.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      dark souls is what rpgs should be like if vast majority of gamers didn't suck, but most rpgfans want le epic visual novel dating sim walking sim movie experience where gameplay is a distant thought and challenge is seen as unfair and frustrating totally UNFUN!

  25. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Shadow tower and King Field aside, King Field Aditional was released before the souls and is more rpg than anythibg FS has made

  26. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Is Dark Souls the first truly hard rpg? Or is it the first too hard rpg?
    nope, there were harder rpgs in the 90s like D&D Tower of Doom and Shadow over Mystara. Try and beat them on one credit

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Those aren't RPGs. Also this thread is embarrassing. Imagine getting filtered by Dark Souls, a game where you can just summon an NPC helper to tank every boss in the game for you if you aren't up for the challenge.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        they certainly have plenty of rpg elements without falling into the trap of actually being bogged down by them and bloated, like an rpg would

        most people would call Dragon's Crown an action rpg beat em up

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Yeah, and they don't comprehend what makes a RPG a RPG. Action games players can easily mitigate character skill through their own personal skill in getting use to the mechanics. In turn based games based on stats you'd need to number crunch hard to figure out optimal play at lower power levels, but you're still very constrained to the characters abilities even with your outside knowledge.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Dragon's Crown is more RPG than Capcom D&D (in a bad way) due to the grinding mechanics, but I don't know that I'd call it one.
          D&D has nods to the source material by having you "level up" and having "quests" and stuff, but it is a beat em up game.

  27. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Yes dark souls is hard
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_of_knowledge

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Yes dark souls is hard
      The people who say Souls aren't hard never explain why and never give examples of what qualifies as hard, specially not in the rpg realm.

  28. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Dark souls was the only somewhat challenging game that normies picked up within the last decade.
    It was not the first "difficult" action rpg nor the most recent at the time, otherwise things like Monster Hunter would have immediately been popular.

  29. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Dark Souls at its core it's an action game with some rpg elements.
    People only think it's hard because they're used to zero manual skill/reflexes required rpg, but if you're used to action games it's average difficulty at best.
    Shit like (pre-world) monster hunter, devil may cry, nioh, etc are all harder.

  30. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I recently played through the trilogy and could just barely finish it. If you can catch the lore and piece it together as your playing, it's pretty rad. I feel it's not as hard as what people forced me to accept over the years. At first, yes but the second you *click* to how everything works in each game then its almost too easy and kinda boring honestly.

  31. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Dark Souls isn't very hard. It's pretty much just figure out boss moveset dodge+attack timings, then easy game.

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