IT'S A FUCKING ROLE PLAYING GAME!
Fucking, how, has the idea of 'meta' slithered itself into rpgs of all things. This ain't a fucking competition, so why do these retards purposefully remove the fun from the game for themselves? I get that these are 'content creators' that have to shit out a video every 3 days to appease the algorithm, but do people actually fall for this?
People have been metagaming every game for all of time you stupid fuck.
Playing a video game is like having the world's most autistic DM and minmaxing is necessary for survival.
Metagaming is a thing in tabletop, too, they just call it powergaming and the players powergamers, munchkins or twinks. Metagaming in tabletop refers to the player acting on knowledge his character shouldn't know. Players have always been divided on whether it's okay or not. Personally I'm of the mind that they actively ruin the game for everyone else and I find their entire way of thinking disgusting, to the point I'd like to genocide them for eugenic reasons.
Except it isn't because BG3 is piss easy.
>Making silly builds is part of the fun in RPGs
No. Making a silly character is, but treating player options like a buffet of ingredients to try and mix and max as efficiently as possible, as if making your character is a game in itself and you want to be rewarded for "winning," is cringe (as if that needed to be said) and ruins the game for everyone else at the table.
>Players have always been divided on whether it's okay or not
Divided between the 99% who think it's not okay and the 1% that do it anyways
Look up a D&D YouTube or go ask a fa/tg/uy about it and they'll tell you they understand both perspectives and think it's up to the table.
>ruins the game for everyone else at the table.
Good thing this is a video game not a tabletop game
also powergaming some builds don't even make sense in person, a DM would never allow you to take random class dips.
One person makes a successful video and all the little "YouTubers" follow along.
MOOOOOOOM WHAT DO YOU MEAN PEOPLE PLAY THE WAY THEY WANT TO THEY SHOULD BE DOING WHAT I WANT BECAUSE THAT'S THE ONLY REAL WAY TO ROLEPLAY
90% of the fun of these games is programming builds. If you don't spend dozens of hours planning and respeccing characters you're leaving the genre's best content on the table.
>dozens of hours
What kind of slow retard are you?
BG3 gives you 12 levels to pick SOMETIMES 2-4 different options of 4-12 different things (except the feats, where there are maybe 4 at best that even make sense for whatever build you're going for, if you're lucky but a LOT of bad options).
There is also ZERO way to plan your character in advance, as you have no way of knowing what future levels will bring without meta knowledge.
My first (and only) playthrough took about 5 minutes per level per character to level up and that's probably generous since some of the level options were just "click next" or "you get more spell points" or some shit and my characters were all stupid overpowered by the end of the game anyway without watching some gay youtuber.
>There is also ZERO way to plan your character in advance, as you have no way of knowing what future levels will bring without meta knowledge.
back in the day, we would just consult the manual, not everything needs to be spelled out for you inside the game
I wasn't complaining about it. I think it's fine ONLY because you can respec at will via the skeleton. If you couldn't, it would kinda suck because some classes are just utter trash and you don't realize it until level 5.
>If you couldn't, it would kinda suck because some classes are just utter trash
Uh, well, that itself is a problem, anon. Being able to change classes is not a viable solution to that. Although I don't know which classes you're talking about.
I'm not a super dnd 5e tabletop pro but I found the cleric to be underwhelming because they don't get extra actions. The monk was fun and OP but not being able to wear any of the cool armors or weapons I picked up got old (I know you could build a STR/armor monk but w/e, I didn't), aannnd I got sick of playing magic on my main character because longresting just to restock spells was tedious and I didn't want to use the boring cantrips 99% of the time on my main. I used them on my 4th char mage guy whatshisname but also didn't pay attention to whether or not he needed a rest.
>There is also ZERO way to plan your character in advance
I think this is something genuinely bad about the game. I've seen so many streamers look at Shadow Monk and go, "I don't care about magic," only to change their mind when chat tells them they get a teleport later. The game's not very friendly to people who haven't played 5e (and aren't streaming).
why do you sound so mad wtf lol. Do you not feel a bit silly typing all that out
>There is also ZERO way to plan your character in advance,
Not like it matters when your choices don't matter /that/ much, and respecs are basically free
I used caps for emphasis but re-reading I guess it comes off as angry. I like that the game doesn't tell you. No, I don't feel silly typing that. I'm 34, I work a lot, and I both enjoy video games and talking about video games.
>I both enjoy video games and talking about video games.
Bro, run for the hills. What are you doing here if you actually enjoy things?
t. dude thats older then you
lol I do feel like that sometimes but I've got thick skin anyway. There's not really another outlet to talk about video games though without having to worry about offending someone. I'll use my private discord once in a while but only because it has better chat features than mumble.
>There's not really another outlet to talk about video games though without having to worry about offending someone.
Tell me about it.
I fucking hate these place but there isn't anything better.
Really, I just largely stopped talking about vidya
nah it's always unsatisfying to min max in these games because the balance never actually accounts for it
Its fun to make new characters and is the only redeeming feature for Baldur's Gate 3 gameplay wise considering its just 5e with a couple house rules. There are a lot of classes to play so you get a good build variety. I'm not sure how much you can make each individual build "OP" though.
You can find forum posts from the 90s talking about optimized builds in BG2
This case isn’t a youtuber thing. There’s two types of table top dnd players, role playing adventure types and autistic number crunchers. That’s always been the case
>implying role players aren't autistic
Minmaxing and making broken shit is fun. People did this kind of shit in literally every single CRPG ever made. Thinking this is a problem outs you as a zoomer who has probably seen some viedo essay decrying "sweats" or something.
IT'S A FUCKING NERD HOBBY!
Fucking, how, has the idea of 'don't have fun optimizing numbers' slithered itself into neets of all things. This ain't a fucking social hobby, so why do these retards purposefully avoid the fun from playing the numbers? I get that these are 'low IQ neets' that have to shit out a post every 3 days to appease their autism, but do other neets actually fall for this?
Minmax your numbers yourself while playing and without prior meta knowledge of the game is the real challenge and fun.
Minmaxing with all knowledge of all possible builds is like watching a movie for the fifteenth fucking time and finding it exciting. You're functionally retarded.
there IS however a difference between doing it yourself and just carbon copying shit
the latter are gigagays lmao
figuring it out is where the SAUCE is
more people these days are just doing the latter though, no argument there lol
usin builds from guides is the gayest thing possible, making your own builds is peak comfy
What if a game is designed around guide following like Path of Exile?
>IT'S A FUCKING ROLE PLAYING GAME!
And i am playing as a Nature Cleric 1/Wizard 1/White Dragon Sorcerer 10. Making silly builds is part of the fun in RPGs.
>inb4 your build is bad
Think again.
The thing is, there's a difference between the "holy shit I can't believe that worked" builds, and pure minmaxing ones.
At the end of the day "RPGs" are just skirmish wargames that transfer some of the combat depth to out-of-combat depth. That's it. D&D (including 5e) in general is pretty rules-heavy, not the kind of design that you would expect from a game that was TRULY designed for RP in mind. And that's before you get into how unthematic the mechanics are: because they are so bad at simulation that whatever happens per-mechanics doesn't have clear narrative meaning, the mechanics are an obstacle and not a guide for emergent storytelling/RP.
Ironically, the video games that actually are the most suited for RP (indeed, contrary to supposed RPGs, some actually have been designed for RP as the foremost design goal, like Dominions and Crusader Kings), happen to be strategy games/wargames. So the type of games "RPGs" split off from originally.
https://1dGanker.org/wiki/Munchkin
"Metagaming" COMES FROM D&D, idiot
Being a martial artist god is one of the sweetest forms of RP
thats NOT roleplaying chud you need to be a dwarf and hes angry all the time and he drinks a lot and he swings an axe and he likes mining shiny things and he speaks funny and he carries a barrel of mead around which he stole from the bad guys which is why they want to kill him but he keeps going because he promised his mom he would make her proud
The combat is not fun and people want to get it over with as efficiently as possible.
>5e "min-maxing"
>BG3 """"""""""""""""min-maxing""""""""""""""""""
12 monk, tavern brawler. Chug a cloud giant potion. Congratulations, you beat the game.
you can say this about any game. Making a build that hits the character fantasy you want while also being broken is fun
>the internet ruins everything
congratulations, zoomer, you've taken your first step towards being less retarded.
People have always made guides and builds, but now people making Youtube videos get money if they can attract people to their videos so they're all making the BEST GOD TIER builds. Video games are also fixed in what you'll actually fight, if you look at class guides for tabletop D&D they include as many options as they can even if they are niche or not the best since somebody might want to play them at their table and the DM can take that into account when designing encounters. For a video game guide there's not really any reason to talk about options that aren't the best for overcoming the challenges that you know the game will have.
It's fun to be super strong though.
It aint a competition? Everything is a contest retard, if you haven't realized that you've lost at life.
Metafags have existed since the dawn of Dungeons 'n Dragons, shit for brains.
You can tell in this very thread who is 25+ and who isn't
yeah its all old people who need to look up guides to THE MOST EPIC BUILD!!! or else their ego will get hurt because they suck and cant learn themselves
t. younger than 25
t. cataracts
Ah, so I was right, thanks for the confirmation you fucking retard
dont give yourself a hernia old man!
>I hope I fit in now and they'll stop calling me a zoomer!
People try to meta even real life with the so called grindset btw
I don't find combat engaging in most CRPGs so I like making the most busted build possible that still fits within the type of character I want to play. Then it's easier to just stomp the combat so I can get to the actual story parts which are what interests me.
just play easy
Yeha but whats the build though. Or is it the tavern brawler throw stuff that i found boring.
bro is this your first crpg? There's videos like that for others too, like Pathfinder. It's not a meta thing, it's just builds.
OP whatever you do DON'T GOTO GAMEFAQS, IT HOSTS MECHANICS GUIDES FOR EVEN OLD GAMES AHHHHHHH AAVE ME moronMAN
People have ALWAYS been meta gaming, before you were born anon.
What, do you make sure to NOT notice effective strategies when playing something?
I agree with him here but Josh Sawyer is a fag, no way around it
go back 2 codex
Nerds were talking about monk builds before you were born.
I'm trying to really enjoy Baldur Gate and idk
Maybe I just don't get it. Maybe I'm too spoiled by modern games.
I feel like I'm mostly reading and seeing some cutscenes and idk, like I want to play and feel invested with actually playing.
Like I thought for example Druid would be fun but I'm transforming into a bear, shooting some stuff before and that's it. Maybe I should've gone with just wizardry shit instead.
Maybe it's because I'm into combat shit and CRPG combat is just.. not really fun?
It's not weird to not be interested in every single genre of video game. You just don't like CRPGs, that's fine.
You only have to interact with story stuff as much as you want.
Guarantee you could have fought but instead did the dialog route for a lot of things.
have a nice day normalfag
I have no idea. Betheschads would never optimise their character to the point of redundancy
>why are people powergaming DnD??????
Are you retarded
im surprise he didn't put a picture of tav with a photoshopped smile.jpeg on it like 90% of the other bg3 videos do.
is it so crazy to you that i may have played the game my way, then found out that there was a legendary mace that wouldve been cool to do if i didnt go the underdark way (which is still much cooler than the mountain pass) and its cool to find out the hidden stuff and play a 2nd character? isnt that the whole point of RPGs, replayability?
Replayability doesn't matter to Ganker who believe every first playthrough should be a 100% completionist run using the most broken items, spells, and feats they learned about through some thread here.
Tabletop combat system that has no real time mechanical skills or quick decision making involved, always boils down to one of two states
>RNG casino
>Math problem for you to solve
"Meta" is just people that would go for latter, rather than former. Eliminate the fucking RNG casino and play like a human with problem-solving brain and not like a shit-flinging baboon.
5e DnD ruleset is instead dedicated to a goal of eliminating ways to solve it and leaving only casino instead, that's why the existence of that putrid dogshit is outright insulting to anyone who aren't gacha-brained drooling retards, one of whom you seem to be.
uh what? Narrative rulesets like Blades in the Dark also rely on purely rng rolls. Kinda sounds like you're just regurgitating what other people say without actually playing any of these systems.
The only 5e game i've played was Solasta and that was more than enough for me. 5e provides you with no tools to eliminate rng dependency at least to the point of only losing upon rolling 1.
>But muh game master is supposed to work around you rolling 1
Video games do not have a game master and I've yet to see one where outcomes upon winning or losing RNG casino weren't completely straightforward you progress/you don't situation Disco Elysium maybe but it's not really a crpg.
Rolls make thematic and narrative sense. Consider for instance that you're exploring ancient ruins and see a boulder that has fallen off crumbling stoneworks and appears to be on top of a magical switch. So you want to lift the boulder to gain access to the switch. But can you? You estimate it weighs 80±40kg and you know you have lifted boulders that heavy, but those boulders were shaped so as to provide a good grip and this one doesn't seem so convenient but you haven't tried lifting it yet, and on one hand it's almost night and you are tired from the day of exploring, but on the other hand your love interest is watching and you're more motivated to lift the boulder than you've ever been in your life. Can you lift it? Well, you don't know! You can't exactly put all of these factors into a formula that tells you if you can lift it, and even if you had such a formula, it would be unthematic to know exactly how heavy the boulder is anyway. So you use a roll to resolve this narrative dilemma, in this case probably giving you roughly even odds of success.
The thing is, while I'm completely unfamiliar with Blades in the Dark, I'd wager it uses rolls sensibly, certainly if it's DMd by a human who can exercise their judgement to just arbitrate trivial cases. D&D on the other hand is extremely unthematic in its mechanics such that they hinder rather than support emergent narratives even in the best of cases (consider for instance a feat of strength of "average" difficulty, so 10, and a character at the absolute peak of human physique and +5 strength modifier: they'd have 1/4 chance to fail, so bad are the properties of d20 probability-distribution, and don't get me started on inadequacies of combat resolution...), and in CRPG context you don't have even that saving grace of a human DM.
There's nothing wrong with minmaxing
There's everything wrong with making faggy youtube videos about "OMG S-TIER BUILD 10,000 DPS PWN EVERYONE!!!!!!1!!!!!!!!"
OP would have sobbed if he ever stepped into a Path of the Righteous thread, those -60 AC builds are abominations
OP is a gatekeeping gay, who for some reason cares how people play singleplayer games they bought.
Buildmaking is one the main cool features of the genre, so if people try to break a game with different combinations of the mechanics - thats great, not terrible. I really enjoyed Pathfinder WotR fro that exact reason.
redditor
OP you know you can just not go to youtube, right?
let people enjoy things! stop complaining!
>things get worse
well you know you can just not!?!?!
shut up you gay ass sissy
Let me explain something to you. RPGs are long games. Most people playing RPGs don't have an intimate familiarity with the system that they are playing with. People don't like sinking 50 hours into a game and then realizing their build is scuffed, chipped, shit, or that a party member fills their role much better. That's where the meta comes in, people don't like having their time wasted.
I hope you understand that not everyone has the time to play the game over and over again.
>Most people playing RPGs don't have an intimate familiarity with the system that they are playing with
Then they are casuals and should fuck off
>people don't like having their time wasted
then stop being shit
aka geriatric gamers cant handle anything and just want heroin in the form of their childhood games
If you can respec, you don't need a fucking meta guide. Fuck off.
That said, I'd never play path of exile without at least referencing a build guide because of what you said. I don't play it enough to keep up with all the changes and you can easily build yourself out of content.
That's totally fair, but the game isn't that hard and there's a difference between multiclassing to get 20 attacks a turn and just, you know, picking Eldritch Blast on Warlock.
There are so many weird things you just said, but if you think 75% of the classes are bad, alright, you do you. Cleric can solo Act 2 by the way.
I didn't say 75% of the classes were shit. I just said some classes were utter shit, like cleric. Being viable in one act because all of them are undead or weak to light doesn't make it a good class. It's surprises me that you can solo the entire act with one character but I'm not a super meta gamer/youtube watcher and my experience with cleric was that they are shit and consistently have way less damage potential, healing potential, and tanking potential than a paladin does at any given time. Maybe that's not true, whatever.
>I just said some classes were utter shit, like cleric
my life cleric shadowheart was immortal and was doing 2 100 hp aoe heals while also applying bless and resistance to everyone in the party every turn
Cleric is the third best class in tabletop. I haven't played around with everything in BG3, but I kinda' doubt they're significantly weaker.
>way less damage potential
>tanking potential
>than a paladin
Yeah, that's true. Paladins are beefcakes. Clerics vary, but it'd be broken if they could be as strong as a Paladin as a frontliner when they're also better backliners. They're full casters after all.
>healing potential
..? At level 3, the most healing a Cleric can do (on any subclass) is 114. Paladin is 31.5. Clerics also get great spells that Paladins don't like Guidance, Spiritual Weapon, Spirit Guardians, Banishment, Death Ward. Not to mention Divine Intervention.
this isn't anything new but minmaxing in bg3 is huge overkill
CRPGs were comfy until Eurotrash devs sold out to China. Now they need bigbux to recoup literally millions in RMB marketing
based, all the games tencent has their hand in are actually really good like Path of Exile
>tfw no cold magic subclass
Reeew i deserve my winter domain cleric
Is it not weird to anyone else how people seem to be legitimately angry that people like the combat in Baldur's Gate 3? Anons will sperg out about how the combat isn't actually difficult as if that ever mattered in a game. People like planning out builds even in extremely easy games. That's just part of the fun.
I hate literally EVERYTHING about that game except the combat
DOOD I'M GOING TO BE A CONTENT CREATOR FOR LATEST POPULAR THING
Rate my build
Paladin 2/lol it doesn't matter paladin smite is busted
I remember when Ganker used to like busted broken stuff and balance was the enemy of fun
Nice, reminds me of my Gortash fight where he dashed close to my group, I put him in hold person and LaeZel nuked him in one turn
To be honest i get annoyed if a boss fight is too easy.
If it doesn't kill me at least once it feels wrong and not fun.
>Fucking, how, has the idea of 'meta' slithered itself into rpgs of all things.
You should have have been violently hostile towards MMO Roles and Raids two decades ago.