JOHTO GYM LEADERS

>Fix'd

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  1. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    why is pryce easier than bugsy

  2. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    Why keep Clefairy if you're going to change most of them to Johto?

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      This. I would have suggested maybe Smeargle of at least Furret.

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      Whitney's team is fine. Clefairy is an iconic normal type. Whitney's gym is shaped like a clefairy

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      I like the off type choices like Murkrow, Marowak and Lapras

      I'd give Chuck Primeape back mainly because him having only two Pokemon never made sense and Primeape is like the one Gen 1 Pokemon the never gets to be on teams.

      Her gym is literally a Clefairy, makes no sense to remove it.

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        Whitney's team is fine. Clefairy is an iconic normal type. Whitney's gym is shaped like a clefairy

        aye.
        except that not even GameFreak recognize it sometimes.

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          I can still see it on the bottom.

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            It's vaguely there but the shape is fricked up in spots like the protruding bit at the top and the way they decided to do multiple colours just ruins it. It looks like they somehow weren't aware of what it was supposed to be.

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            No. I mean Whitney didn't use her Whitney in Type Expert/World Leaders or Challenge the Champion Lance! in B2W2. If Clefairy is really iconic to Whitney like everyone says.

            • 10 months ago
              Anonymous

              *use her Clefairy

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          HG/SS is stealth soulless, people are just too distracted by following pokemon or are just zoomers who are unaware of all the details from the originals that were overlooked

  3. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    I like the addition of Marowak, but not the addition of Lapras. Too far of a stretch.

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      Claire's team has a "sea serpent theme"

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        Lapras isn’t a serpent.

  4. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    There should be a rational amount to spoil to make gym leaders look good.

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      How does using new Pokemon make gym leaders look good?

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        It should they have rare and unique pokemon?

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          It shows*

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          How does that make them look better?

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Johto redesign hater
            >brain damaged
            like a clock

            • 10 months ago
              Anonymous

              >unova zoomer
              >quickly runs out of arguments when his moron logic is questioned
              like a clock

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                Argument was stated, you just chose to ignore it. My argument still stands.

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                You have no argument except "it looks cool because it looks cool"

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                it does look cool though

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                You will love this

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                10/10, thank you for not spoiling anything <3

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                imagine if all the new pokemon were in kanto post game <333333

  5. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    >Geodude spoiled
    >Onix spoiled
    >Staryu spoiled
    >Starmie spoiled
    >Voltorb spoiled
    >Tangela spoiled
    >Koffing spoiled
    >Weezing spoiled
    >Muk spoiled

    We're allowed to 9 spoils because gen 1 did as many or more

    >Shuckle, Heracross, Miltank, Misdreavus, Murkrow, Hitmontop, Steelix, Delibird, Piloswine

    same number, but you didn't know that you retaded ZOOMZOOM idiot who didn't even play gen 1

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      Gen 1 has 50% more Pokemon than Gen 2, dumbass.

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        >Sandshrew in Pewter Gym
        >Horsea, Shellder and Goldeen in Cerulean Gym
        >Magnemite in Vermilion Gym
        >Exeggcute in Celadon Gym

        cope

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      Genwun's design is suddenly good and something we should imitate now?

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        >moving goalpost

  6. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    Why are zoomers so bad at designing thematically fitting teams?

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      You need to say more so we can judge if you can.

  7. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    This is even worse because Johto Pokemon fricking SUCK

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      >This is even worse because Johto Pokemon fricking SUCK

  8. 10 months ago
    Marioipod13

    I like most of this but I think you should add a Hitmontop to Chuck's team, Bugsy's Scyther back to his team, and a Wobbuffet to Whitney's team. The way you fixed Clair's team is perfect.

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      >a Hitmontop to Chuck's team
      assuming you mean Heracross

      >a Wobbuffet to Whitney's team
      why Wobbuffet?

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        Ignore the tripgay's blatherings. He is mentally ill.

      • 10 months ago
        Marioipod13

        Wobbuffet because it's more frustrating to fight than a Miltank. Whitney's Miltank is overrated but...

        Wobbuffet is FRICKING NIGHTMARISH to fight!

  9. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    no

  10. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    Shuckle + Heracross is way too much for a second gym, I'd drop them for something like Ledian and/or Ariados
    There's not much you can do for Morty considering ghost types.
    Chuck should get Heracross or another fighting type like Machoke to fill out his team.
    Rest are fine

  11. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    it's not 1998 anymore grandpa, leakers and dataminers show off all the pokemon before release anyway

  12. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    The only one I ever really thought needed changing was Morty. It's just so weird that they filled the entire gym with only the gengar line.

  13. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    But Unova does the same thing as Gen 1, quite a few mons aren't used by important trainers. Feel free to point me to the leaders with Ferrothorn, Heatmor, Durant, Amolamola, or Mandibuzz if I'm wrong.

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      And Gen 1 is generally accepted to be shit.

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        Nobody ever complained about it before

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          I did

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            congratulations

  14. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    Okay, but the distribution of mons isn’t consistent. This is my gyms and caps

    Falkner: Hoothoot, Pidgeotto LV 15
    Bugsy: Yanma, Pineco, Scyther LV 20
    Whitney: Clefairy, Furret, Miltank LV 24
    Morty: Misdreavus, Haunter, Ariados, Gengar LV 30
    Chuck: Machoke, Poliwrath, Primape, Heracross LV 35
    Jasmine: Skarmory, Magneton, Forretress, Steelix LV 41
    Pryce: Jynx, Lapras, Weavile, Mamoswine LV 46
    Clair: Gyarados, Dragonair, Ampharos, Kingdra LV 50
    Will: Jynx, Slowking, Espeon, Exeggutor, Girafarig LV 56
    Koga: Qwilfish, Foretress, Electrode, Weezing, Crobat LV 57
    Bruno: Hitmonchan, Hitmonlee, Hitmontop, Donphan, Machamp LV 58
    Karen: Vileplume, Honchkrow, Gengar, Umbreon, Houndoom LV 59
    Lance: Gyarados, Charizard, Kangaskhan, Aerodactyl, Dragonite, Tyranitar LV 60

  15. 10 months ago
    Anonymous
    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      remove c******** from Lance's team

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        who should i replace it with

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      >gen 4 evos

  16. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    >100 New Pokemon
    >8-16 of them showcased with important characters

    Oh mY gOD sPOiL ThEm ALl!!!

    Stfu

  17. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    Why are you moronic?

    Falkner - Hoothoot - You see it before the gym
    Bugsy - Spinarak/Ledyba - You see the before the gym
    Morty - Misdreavus - Post game, no one uses it, is the only new Ghost type, no reason why he shouldn't get it.
    Chuck - Hitmontop - You can get Tyrogue before the gym giving access to Hitmontop.
    Jasmine - Pineco can be found before the gym, therefore Forrttress can be as well.
    Pryce - You can find Sneasel and Delibird literally right after the gym.
    Clair - 99% of the pokemon are seen before her gym.

  18. 10 months ago
    Marioipod13

    I seriously think Whitney should get a Wobbuffet. Sabrina had a Venomoth so it's not too much of a stretch. Besides, Wobbuffet looks more similar to a normal type than say for example Jigglypuff does.

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      okay Chris-chan

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      Wobbuffet doesn't fit Whitney. give it to Chuck instead.

      • 10 months ago
        Marioipod13

        Wobbuffet fits Whitney more than you might think. You know how MandJTV hates Miltank because of how frustrated it has made him during the battle with Whitney?

        I have no problems with Whitney but I have had problems with Wobbuffet, and it's the only Johto Pokemon that I have ever had decent trouble fighting. Technically Brendan's Grovyle was hell to fight in Generation III but that's not a Generation II Pokemon. So Wobbuffet fits better with Whitney than Grovyle.

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          >you know how some random eceleb did something

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous
        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          whitney isn't intelligent enough to use wobbuffet

  19. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    You've clearly done a good job balancing this, Falkner just needs a Lugia and you're all set

  20. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    No.
    I didn't even look at it, because we've done this same thread numerous times and if I did an in-depth breakdown of your shit, you'd be shitting the board for weeks.

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      >if I did an in-depth breakdown of your shit, you'd be shitting the board for weeks.

      Try me. You haven't even looked at it but you're already belly aching

  21. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    >whitney, morty, and claire still have pokemon that arent their type
    how is this a fix

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      >whitney has pokemon that isn't her type

      Uh oh. Zoomer alert!

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        Clefairy was never not fairy.

  22. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    C'mon now. Absolutely zero reason for a gym past the second one to not go all out within their given typing or theme. The games are easy enough with shit movepools and AIs.

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      >giving claire non dragon types
      aye carumba

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        Oh dear, what a catastrophe. Half of Lance's team are non-Dragon types, because there's not enough of them, so they had to go with "Dragon-like" instead.

        >Shuckle by the 2nd gym

        I thought it was a bit too much, but for some reason didn't fix it in my version. It could be replaced with a Parasect, a Venomoth or Ledian and Ariados. It'd be a nightmare to take down with anything that can't poison it.

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          aye carumba

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      While I was at it, I gave them post game teams for rematches. Unfortunately Claire pulled a Steven and was replaced by a Water-loving gay guy, since it's fricking annoying to try and do a Dragon themed team in Gen II. Similarly, Morty decided that "Spooky" is enough of a theme since actual Ghosts are rare.

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      While I was at it, I gave them post game teams for rematches. Unfortunately Claire pulled a Steven and was replaced by a Water-loving gay guy, since it's fricking annoying to try and do a Dragon themed team in Gen II. Similarly, Morty decided that "Spooky" is enough of a theme since actual Ghosts are rare.

      Oh and btw, while making these, I realized that every Gym leader in Johto has a typing theme that's effective against the next Gym, aside from Whitney, who's infamously unbalanced. This makes me think she was supposed to maybe be a Dark type leader, but it was scrapped in favor of making a Dark type E4 member, and they hastily replaced her with a Normal type team with a "too hard" Miltank in it. Was this commonly known? I was completely unaware until now.
      Flying > Bug >"Dark" > Ghost > Fighting > Steel > Ice > Dragon.
      Took me +20 years to realize.

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        The 3rd gym leader was never meant to be a Dark-type one. We have an entire development history to go off of.

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          Ah, I didn't even think about that possibility. Do you know where I could find the info regarding gym leaders during development? I checked a few online resources with information about the dev history but none mentioned anything about gyms.
          Also, it is still quite a coincidence how every Gym type is effective against the next, aside from Whitney. The trend also curiously fits with E4: Psychic > Poison > Fighting > Fighting, but then stops with the Champion. I was thinking that maybe they originally had Lorelei in place of Karen, who would've fit the theme, but felt like they'd want more new Trainers with new types and decided to move the Dark type Gym from Goldenrod to E4 as Karen, and then just hastily threw together a Normal type gym. Well, neat detail anyway.

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            >E4: Psychic > Poison > Fighting > Dark is what I would've written if I wasn't mentally challenged.

            • 10 months ago
              Anonymous

              Same was in gen 1
              Rock < Water < Electric < Grass < Poison < Psychic = Fire < Ground < Ice < Fighting < Ghost = Dragon

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            https://tcrf.net/Pok%C3%A9mon_Gold_and_Silver
            This entire page will have everything you need, specifically in the prototype section and you can find the earliest info in this 97 build of the game:
            https://tcrf.net/Proto:Pok%C3%A9mon_Gold_and_Silver/Spaceworld_1997_Demo
            Battles for later gyms weren't programmed in yet at this stage, so technically there's no way to know, I just find it unlikely. Also worth noting that in this build, Normal was 2x effective against Dark.

  23. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    >Shuckle by the 2nd gym

  24. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    Now Johto is truly fixed.

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      >changing aces
      >fairy type at normal gym
      >3 pokemon at 5th gym and further
      >4 pokemon at 8th gym
      >onix at e4
      fix that

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        >changing aces
        third versions chance aces all the time
        >fairy type at normal gym
        zoom zoom
        >3 pokemon at 5th gym and further
        wasn;t a problem when Unova and Kalos did it
        >4 pokemon at 8th gym
        which is more than Unova and Kalos
        >onix at e4
        wasn't a problem when KANTOOOOO did it

        Even then, what does it do that Kingdra doesn't? It makes half of her team week to electric which is specifically resisted by dragon types. I wish that would have made Ampharos electric/dragon like in the beta, he would have fit very well

        nta, but as long as half her team is still dragon it don't think its that much of a problem. If Bird Keeper Lance can have CHARIZARD, then Swimmer Clair can have Lapras

        >I wish that would have made Ampharos electric/dragon like in the beta
        I mean, nothing wrong with adding Ampharos in if its meant to be a dragon in lore, It takes care of the electric weakness problem

        While I was at it, I gave them post game teams for rematches. Unfortunately Claire pulled a Steven and was replaced by a Water-loving gay guy, since it's fricking annoying to try and do a Dragon themed team in Gen II. Similarly, Morty decided that "Spooky" is enough of a theme since actual Ghosts are rare.

        All good except CHARIZARD, Lance and Red already have one

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          >third versions chance aces all the time
          johto is consistent
          >zoom zoom
          future proofing
          >wasn;t a problem when Unova and Kalos did it
          it's always a probem
          >which is more than Unova and Kalos
          it's always a probem
          >wasn't a problem when KANTOOOOO did it
          Onix was fully evolved then, now it's more pathetic

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          >All good except CHARIZARD, Lance and Red already have one
          Sure. Swap it out for Dodrio or even Gligar. In latter case, Xatu and Gligar swaps places, I tried to put the weakest Pokémon of each team in the front, as the lowest level Pokémon of each team. Charizard would then be replaced by Pidgeot, I think.

  25. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    Gym Leaders aren’t as impressive once you see Pokemon they can use in the wild.

  26. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    >Faulkner
    Both Natu and Noctowl are ass. He was fine considering he's the first gym leader, but if you have to change him give him a Hoothoot and a Skarmory respectively, if you can't beat him with your starter you can go catch a Growlithe in the next route over

    >Busy
    Pineco is okay I guess but shuckle does literally nothing. Give him a butterfree and give heracross reversal much much earlier than it does now

    >Whitney
    Literally perfect, maybe give it a couple of the punch moves + metronome and attract

    >Morty
    He doesn't need four mons, and he definitely doesn't need a team that is half non-ghosts. Misdreavous, Haunter, And Gengar

    >Chuck
    Fighting types got fricked this gen. Give him a Machoke as well

    >Jasmine
    In the game she canonically just became a steel type gym leader because her Onix recently evolved so there's no reason to explain why she would have a fully built team of steel types at this point, it actually made sense for her to have weak steel types like Magnemite, maybe give her a rock type/another pokemon that evolves into a steel type like pineco with explosion to represent that

    >Pryce
    Ice types just suck when used by the opponent. Too frail and doesn't hit anything you would send in supereffectively. That being said his team is fittingly mediocre, but if I had to make a change I would swap out Delibird for a Sneasel with swords dance and slash. Also make his signature Pokemon a Jynx with lovely kiss and ice punch

    >Claire
    I never liked that "dragon" is more of a vague archetype than and actual type for dragon trainers. I don't think Lapras even qualifies as a dragon but otherwise this is fine. Give Gyrados and Kingdra outrage

    Idk what your definition of fix is but you did a sloppy job. Faulkner is boring because both of those mons aren't even that interesting or challenging to fight unless you have a Chikorita. Bugsy, Morty, and Claire look tedious as frick and Pryce puts me to sleep more than he actually does in-game.

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      >I don't think Lapras even qualifies as a dragon but otherwise this is fine
      Iris uses it as a dragon

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        Even then, what does it do that Kingdra doesn't? It makes half of her team week to electric which is specifically resisted by dragon types. I wish that would have made Ampharos electric/dragon like in the beta, he would have fit very well

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          She already has Kingdra. Ice would be good against other dragons.

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          >She already has Kingdra
          That's my point, why just give her a worse Kingdra? What unique purpose does it have?

          >Skarmory
          stopped reading there

          I don't see how it's any different from Brock's onyx, it's a single stage Pokemon with high stats for the point of the game that requires you to actually think about type matchups

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            A single stage Pokemon with a blatant weakness in it's low special attack I might add

            • 10 months ago
              Anonymous

              is it going to be using special moves?

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                I meant special defense, that's my bad, I haven't been proof reading my posts

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                70 special defense is not "a blatant weakness"

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                It kinda is compared to spamming scratch and it only being level 8. It would have a special defense stat of 18 at most and worst case scenario you can adjust the game to make mareep accessible before you beat the gym, Growlithe learns ember at level 9 which doesn't take that long. It's a perfectly reasonable challenge that can be easily worked around if you picked the grass starter that gets screwed over anyway in the flying type gym. Skarm's strongest move would be peck, so you can just wear it down with any effective special attack, but it will most likely take down one of your mons first. If I could I would revamp the gym entire and take away his access to mud-slap since that's the only issue I can see

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            She already has Kingdra. Ice would be good against other dragons.

            • 10 months ago
              Anonymous

              Against your singular Dratini that is a shittier version of the extreme speed variant you can get immediately after? Her entire team already deals with them using her signature move dragon breath vs your twister with is a direct downgrade. Like I said, it doesn't really do anything and is redundant

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                You can make an argument for a rest talk Lapras. It shows off a unique combination actually as a bulky buffer to wear you down before she sends out her gyarados. Although it constantly healing itself to full health would get old fast

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                We're not giving her smogon team. Calm down. One Pokemon more will make her stronger no matter what.

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                You missed my point entirely. I'm saying that it should do something to stand out and Kingdra does everything it does but better

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                If anyone disagrees then suggest what you can do to actually make it unique, her team has 0 issues with dragons and her Dragonair already uses ice beam, like I said, Lapras does nothing to stand out

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                It doesn't. It's has different type learns different moves.

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                >Different type
                That only adds more weaknesses to a type that it supposed to be highly resilient

                >Learns different moves
                Lapras and Kingdra's learnsets have drastic overlap and even then it doesn't cover anything that Dragonair and Kingdra don't. Difference is both of those are dragons and compliment Claire's overlyaggressive personality. Lapras is literally one of the friendliest Pokemon in the series

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                Literally 0 sense in anything you write.

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                >No valid argument

                Maybe we should decide what a "fixed" team is then?

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      >Skarmory
      stopped reading there

  27. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    Not allowing the player to use healing items in battle would help a lot

  28. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    where's the 10% zygarde?

  29. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    Falkner: Hoothoot, Spearow, Pidgeotto.
    Bugsy: Ledian, Ariados, Scyther.
    Whitney: Clefairy, Aipom, Miltank.
    Morty: Haunter, Umbreon, Girafarig, Gengar.
    Chuck: Machoke, Primeape, Granbull, Poliwrath.
    Jasmine: Magneton, Ampharos, Skarmory, Steelix.
    Pryce: Dewgong, Piloswine, Slowking, Jynx.
    Clair: Dragonair, Gyrados, Seadra, Feraligatr, Kingdra.

  30. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    Are there any romhacks or patches for base GSC that rebalance the difficulty?

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