Depending on the system, there are dozens of trpg systems that basically go from extreme autism math in the advanced d20s to the more easy-to-use fate systems to mimic action-based cinematic gameplay.
And Homebrews are basically modded tabletop systems. No table top company is going to throw a god damn fit if you make your own homebrew to play with your group.
JRPGs always show me what a huge graphics prostitute I am. I love newer DQ games, but can't get into the older ones, despite them having the same gameplay.
There's just somethings that makes killing cute 3D slimes more fun than sprite-based ones.
It's not like the UI really changes that much in DQ games.
They sometimes modernize it for Wester versions of the games, but I usually play them in Japanese first.
The newer ones have made me realize how much of a graphicswore I am. The mirrors not working and the horse being poorly animated when traversing land made me realize the games are ugly AND have no gameplay worth a damn.
I like the pixel graphics and UI but hate the overall worldmap. I prefer travelling small routes like in Pokemon than a worldmap full of random encounters where I don't even know where to go.
I see no problem with turn based combat so long as the systems around it are fun/interesting. Party, Skills, Equipment, Jobs, etc are what make these kinds of games fun.
I love that Square still keeps iterating on FF with different battle systems. The classic FF turn-based system is the driest, dullest, most boring shit ever invented and I'm so glad we moved past it.
>Do an attack >Literally over a min later it finishes animating >Finally someone else can act >Picks who can (all atb gauges were maxed before I even did the first attack) entirely at random, making combos impossible >End up just mashing attack through the game with the mug dreessphere because of how non-fc**tional the game is with any attack that isn't instant
The combat fricking sucked.
Dragon Quest gets it right though. I never felt it was just "mash attack" like a Final Fantasy game. In Dragon Quest, you get a distinct feel for how much damage an enemy needs before dying, and you can plan things like Boomerangs and spells accordingly.
>They still have that same old turn-based menu combat since the 80s.
They don't. Almost all of JRPGs today are action-based and they all fricking suck.
Frick you op you tasteless b***h. Changing the topic, what are some jrpgs to emulate on my phone with a clip+xbone controller? I can probably do anything easier than PS2 graphics. I've been thinking ff7 because I somehow didnt play it. Lets get comfy.
>sometimes
this shit isn't an exception, it's the rule
the only difference is you have to mash attack, not hold it
that magnetic snap on attacks to dash to enemies ruined gaming
I am in the middle of my first playthrough of DQ11, my first DQ game I've ever touched. I went into it thinking it would be mediocre given that it's a modern title. But instead, I got kino. Also, Sylvando is fricking great.
Turn-based combat is such a timeless form of gameplay that it even precedes videogames. They just adopted the mechanics of D&D for the digital age and the tried-and-true formula has carried multiple subgenres to success throughout the decades. Can't fix what ain't broken.
Why does XI get shat on these days? I can believe some fans liking but not loving it, and even some finding it subpar to other entries but the hate seems weird for what is at worst an inoffensive if safe game in the series
All DQ games are good, you could argue some are better than others but the overall quality doesn't go below a 9/10 in my shitty opinion, those who b***h about DQXI are first comers to the franchise.
You aren't me but I still agree, DQII on the famicom made me think each battle beforehand, even item management must be in consideration if you want to beat the game.
>There is still no Dragon Quest mobile game made by Niantic where you can walk around to level up your account and occasionally run into monsters to battle them with key locations around you as hotels, NPCs, and events where you work with other players to defeat a big monster in the area
It would poop on Pokemon Go all day everyday
The only thing FF12 added was autoattacks
The character building in the re-releases is pretty good but the game isn't ever hard enough to warrant it outside of really out of the way optional fights.
the point is squareshit games are never complex enough to do anything BUT normal attack spam and kill everything
not even DQ itself is the exception because you can easily outlevel shit, though DQ is their only good series of games
If they keep adding Draconian Mode to future DQs then it'll be in a good spot. Really nailed the difficulty besides a couple bosses that got an extra turn added to their pattern way earlier than they should've.
It is hard to enjoy jrpgs after playing pokemon to be honest, playing against braindead AI with 1 billion hp will never be as complex as playing against people
Like complaining that chess is still around. >Chess is a living fossil. It still has the same old turn-based combat since A.D. 760.
That's how stupid you sound.
Why zoomers think action RPGs are automatically better or can't become just as stale as turn-based ones? I played the demo for Valkyrie Elysium over the weekend and it was the most dull run of the mill action RPG that I've already played a dozen times over the last decade. Nothing special or fun about it to make it stand out from the rest. All I could think while playing it was "wow, I wish this had the original VP combat system." Because despite being turn-based, it was actually unique and stood out from other turn based games and it was more fun despite just being "hurr menus, excel spreadsheets" like zoomers think these games are.
Same reason action games are generally more popular across every generation. The average person needs flashy action to hold their attention. This is nothing new.
>JRPG's are so good that they haven't had to innovate or change since the 80s
Meanwhile every other genre of game strives to get as good as the average jrpg.
Thanks for putting it in perspective fren
Rpgs still can be cool when it works like somethings as SMT4A system, for example. I'm OK with major series going for an action approach since traditional turn based trope was also convenient for system limitations, you can protray all that stuff in real time with modern technology. So yeah, it shouldnt dissappear cause it can be enjoyable and there's a market for it, but I want to see more action games as well
Post your examples of turn based jrpgs with better combat then
>you can protray all that stuff in real time with modern technology
Surprisingly you can't.
For some reason action games can't really portray the full might of *teleports behind you* and countermeasure stacking autism that high level combat on otaku stories provide.
It's hard but doable on turn based, but pretty much fricking impossible in action games.
Hell, even just adding a grid and movement is enough to make it shit.
Action games have fast and flashy combat, if you are talking about something like characters and/or scenario interactions throught a fight then I guess it's easier to do it with paused sequences, but you can still add cutscenes between combat phases and whatnot.
>Post your examples of turn based jrpgs with better combat then
Not that anon nor do I have an encyclopedia on turn based games, haven't played SMT4A yet, but I've always found the combat in FFX to be fantastic. For me the simple addition of seeing attack order change in real time even before you select an attack adds a lot more strategy instead of having turn order be this invisible wildcard stat.
I'm not particularly a fan of FFX but it's a good system, I agree
>Action games have flashy combat
That's fair. >Action games have fast combat
Haahahahahahahaha, no, they don't.
If you weren't an ignorant westoid you would know overall specs scale way higher than what action games can do.
It's not rare for speed-focused characters to perceive the world with accelerated thoughts to the point enemies look like they are standing still, while having the speed to match.
Then there's the casters, who can simultaneously pre-cast a dozen different spells and fire them as needed.
This can be easily done in turn based with a CTB system where faster characters get more turns and actions.
This is impossible in action based because everything has to be scaled down to the perception of a normaloid humie player and action games are for babies, so they can't be too hard when it comes to reflexes.
If you think vergil is fast, think again, he's slow as shit.
>Action games have flashy combat
That's fair. >Action games have fast combat
Haahahahahahahaha, no, they don't.
If you weren't an ignorant westoid you would know overall specs scale way higher than what action games can do.
It's not rare for speed-focused characters to perceive the world with accelerated thoughts to the point enemies look like they are standing still, while having the speed to match.
Then there's the casters, who can simultaneously pre-cast a dozen different spells and fire them as needed.
This can be easily done in turn based with a CTB system where faster characters get more turns and actions.
This is impossible in action based because everything has to be scaled down to the perception of a normaloid humie player and action games are for babies, so they can't be too hard when it comes to reflexes.
If you think vergil is fast, think again, he's slow as shit.
>you can protray all that stuff in real time with modern technology
Surprisingly you can't.
For some reason action games can't really portray the full might of *teleports behind you* and countermeasure stacking autism that high level combat on otaku stories provide.
It's hard but doable on turn based, but pretty much fricking impossible in action games.
Hell, even just adding a grid and movement is enough to make it shit.
I don't really give a frick about choice in story so long as I have some choice in gameplay. Enough room to frick up or do particularly well is all I ask.
Tabletop RPGs are like a living fossil.
They still have the same old turn-based sheet combat since the 70s.
Difference is that imagination is the best you can do sat at a table with friends. Video games have no excuse.
>finding something fun is only okay when it's in line with modern trends
have a nice day
They actually don't, though.
Tabletop RPGs have actually de-evolved and now play more like videogames than they do the RPGs of the 70's.
Depending on the system, there are dozens of trpg systems that basically go from extreme autism math in the advanced d20s to the more easy-to-use fate systems to mimic action-based cinematic gameplay.
And Homebrews are basically modded tabletop systems. No table top company is going to throw a god damn fit if you make your own homebrew to play with your group.
it’s your fault for playing fricking Dragon Quest
JRPGs always show me what a huge graphics prostitute I am. I love newer DQ games, but can't get into the older ones, despite them having the same gameplay.
There's just somethings that makes killing cute 3D slimes more fun than sprite-based ones.
You sure it's not the shitty UI?
It's not like the UI really changes that much in DQ games.
They sometimes modernize it for Wester versions of the games, but I usually play them in Japanese first.
You need to learn to enjoy pixel graphics anon
The newer ones have made me realize how much of a graphicswore I am. The mirrors not working and the horse being poorly animated when traversing land made me realize the games are ugly AND have no gameplay worth a damn.
This but with roguelikes. I can play weeb one way heroics but I wouldn't touch the old one even though it is said it's 10 times more technical
There's an updated one?
Mystery Chronicle: One Way Heroics. Generally not as liked as OWH Plus
>anon filters himself out of one of the best and most soulfoul genres of gaming
MCOWH is dramatically worse than the original in gameplay. It's not the same thing, it's worse.
I like the pixel graphics and UI but hate the overall worldmap. I prefer travelling small routes like in Pokemon than a worldmap full of random encounters where I don't even know where to go.
You should play the DS DQs.
I love Dragon Quest IX
If you liked that you might like the 3DS VII one.
Zoomer
So? don't play them
I see no problem with turn based combat so long as the systems around it are fun/interesting. Party, Skills, Equipment, Jobs, etc are what make these kinds of games fun.
zoomers be like
And yet they're still as kino as ever.
Remember when they thought turn based combat was bad in 2003 and they made whatever the frick this was?
X-2's combat is fine, it's the everything else that's the problem.
The job system is great, though, what are you on about?
I love that Square still keeps iterating on FF with different battle systems. The classic FF turn-based system is the driest, dullest, most boring shit ever invented and I'm so glad we moved past it.
>Do an attack
>Literally over a min later it finishes animating
>Finally someone else can act
>Picks who can (all atb gauges were maxed before I even did the first attack) entirely at random, making combos impossible
>End up just mashing attack through the game with the mug dreessphere because of how non-fc**tional the game is with any attack that isn't instant
The combat fricking sucked.
And that's a tood thing
Which is why they're so boring
I can't get into any DQ game because of that
how long have people been playing games where you click on heads?
Dragon Quest gets it right though. I never felt it was just "mash attack" like a Final Fantasy game. In Dragon Quest, you get a distinct feel for how much damage an enemy needs before dying, and you can plan things like Boomerangs and spells accordingly.
Wouldn't have it any other way, to be honest.
>They still have that same old turn-based menu combat since the 80s.
They don't. Almost all of JRPGs today are action-based and they all fricking suck.
Frick you op you tasteless b***h. Changing the topic, what are some jrpgs to emulate on my phone with a clip+xbone controller? I can probably do anything easier than PS2 graphics. I've been thinking ff7 because I somehow didnt play it. Lets get comfy.
Try out Lunar: SSS Complete and the sequel Eternal Blue
Lufia 2 is my favorite game of all time, play it
Another day another thread of westoids seething about JRPGs.
You really have nothing better to do, do you?
modern action RPGs sometimes have dogshit gameplay
>sometimes
this shit isn't an exception, it's the rule
the only difference is you have to mash attack, not hold it
that magnetic snap on attacks to dash to enemies ruined gaming
>the only difference is you have to mash attack, not hold it
not in XV, you can Hold O in that casual pandering garbage
Ff15 had a lot of issues, including in combat mechanics, but that isnt as bad as this meme protrays it
I am in the middle of my first playthrough of DQ11, my first DQ game I've ever touched. I went into it thinking it would be mediocre given that it's a modern title. But instead, I got kino. Also, Sylvando is fricking great.
exactly the same experience. I know it gets hated, but it is what introduced me to jrpgs tbh.
Sylvando is the hero and everyone is just his clique.
If you think he's cool now just wait until the endgame.
YOU RANG HONEY?
>* giant muscle bound man in pink mask saunters over*
>oi what you loikin' at m8?
I don't know what it is about DQ but I think the games are very boring.
I don't even dislike JRPGs
Turn-based combat is such a timeless form of gameplay that it even precedes videogames. They just adopted the mechanics of D&D for the digital age and the tried-and-true formula has carried multiple subgenres to success throughout the decades. Can't fix what ain't broken.
>Nooo you can't like what I don't like.
Frick you, nautiluses and horseshoe crabs have a good design and are still kicking.
Why does XI get shat on these days? I can believe some fans liking but not loving it, and even some finding it subpar to other entries but the hate seems weird for what is at worst an inoffensive if safe game in the series
they are just triggered by Sylvando
There are people shitting on XI? Aside from the normal Ganker contrarian hipster shit, I mean.
All DQ games are good, you could argue some are better than others but the overall quality doesn't go below a 9/10 in my shitty opinion, those who b***h about DQXI are first comers to the franchise.
Even DQ2?
Yes.
You aren't me but I still agree, DQII on the famicom made me think each battle beforehand, even item management must be in consideration if you want to beat the game.
WHEN YOU WALK AWAY
YOU DON'T HEAR ME SAY
PLEEEEEEEASE, OH BABY DON'T GO
IX was the best
>UM SWEATY YOU HAVEN'T REPLACED THE MECHANICS WITH TRIGGER WARNINGS YET OKAY YOU'RE CANCELLED
>There is still no Dragon Quest mobile game made by Niantic where you can walk around to level up your account and occasionally run into monsters to battle them with key locations around you as hotels, NPCs, and events where you work with other players to defeat a big monster in the area
It would poop on Pokemon Go all day everyday
There literally is, just not by Niantic and Japan only.
Literally one of the most mobile games played in Japan, called DQwalk.
Video games are a fossil yet you still pretend to play them.
They tried to fix turn based combat with ffxii and you all whined and b***hed and now we have shitty action games with moronic ai that you can't fix.
No one bought 12. Releasing it when new consoles are out is a fricking moronic practice. Don't blame others for SEs failure
The only thing FF12 added was autoattacks
The character building in the re-releases is pretty good but the game isn't ever hard enough to warrant it outside of really out of the way optional fights.
>the only thing ff12 added was automating the boring parts
Yeah, that's the point. And everyone b***hed and so now they automate everything.
the point is squareshit games are never complex enough to do anything BUT normal attack spam and kill everything
not even DQ itself is the exception because you can easily outlevel shit, though DQ is their only good series of games
If they keep adding Draconian Mode to future DQs then it'll be in a good spot. Really nailed the difficulty besides a couple bosses that got an extra turn added to their pattern way earlier than they should've.
It is hard to enjoy jrpgs after playing pokemon to be honest, playing against braindead AI with 1 billion hp will never be as complex as playing against people
Just stick to your shitty action games. In fact, FF is turning into exactly what you want so why even bother DQ with your shit taste?
Just the way I like it.
cool, so do side-scrollers,fifa games, racing games, city builders, shooters, and crpgs
don't fix what isn't broken and still prints money.
TALES OF ARE THE BEST JRPG SERIES EVER
>the jrpg that prides itself on its classic gameplay still plays the same
holy shit OP, why arent you discovering the mysteries of the world?
I have never played a Final Fantasy game.
Yeah, that's why people like Dragon Quest. It stays true to why fans enjoy it. Maybe other franchises could learn something from that.
Like complaining that chess is still around.
>Chess is a living fossil. It still has the same old turn-based combat since A.D. 760.
That's how stupid you sound.
Why zoomers think action RPGs are automatically better or can't become just as stale as turn-based ones? I played the demo for Valkyrie Elysium over the weekend and it was the most dull run of the mill action RPG that I've already played a dozen times over the last decade. Nothing special or fun about it to make it stand out from the rest. All I could think while playing it was "wow, I wish this had the original VP combat system." Because despite being turn-based, it was actually unique and stood out from other turn based games and it was more fun despite just being "hurr menus, excel spreadsheets" like zoomers think these games are.
>Why zoomers think action RPGs are automatically better or can't become just as stale as turn-based ones?
Absolutely abysmal attention span
ADHD and falling for the cinematic action meme.
Flashy lights and pressing buttons = good gaem.
Same reason action games are generally more popular across every generation. The average person needs flashy action to hold their attention. This is nothing new.
They don't care about actual gameplay. They like a game to look fancy because it makes them feel skillful.
>JRPG's are so good that they haven't had to innovate or change since the 80s
Meanwhile every other genre of game strives to get as good as the average jrpg.
Thanks for putting it in perspective fren
Rpgs still can be cool when it works like somethings as SMT4A system, for example. I'm OK with major series going for an action approach since traditional turn based trope was also convenient for system limitations, you can protray all that stuff in real time with modern technology. So yeah, it shouldnt dissappear cause it can be enjoyable and there's a market for it, but I want to see more action games as well
>SMT4A system
lol
lmao even
Post your examples of turn based jrpgs with better combat then
Action games have fast and flashy combat, if you are talking about something like characters and/or scenario interactions throught a fight then I guess it's easier to do it with paused sequences, but you can still add cutscenes between combat phases and whatnot.
>Post your examples of turn based jrpgs with better combat then
Not that anon nor do I have an encyclopedia on turn based games, haven't played SMT4A yet, but I've always found the combat in FFX to be fantastic. For me the simple addition of seeing attack order change in real time even before you select an attack adds a lot more strategy instead of having turn order be this invisible wildcard stat.
I'm not particularly a fan of FFX but it's a good system, I agree
A different way of representation
>Action games have flashy combat
That's fair.
>Action games have fast combat
Haahahahahahahaha, no, they don't.
If you weren't an ignorant westoid you would know overall specs scale way higher than what action games can do.
It's not rare for speed-focused characters to perceive the world with accelerated thoughts to the point enemies look like they are standing still, while having the speed to match.
Then there's the casters, who can simultaneously pre-cast a dozen different spells and fire them as needed.
This can be easily done in turn based with a CTB system where faster characters get more turns and actions.
This is impossible in action based because everything has to be scaled down to the perception of a normaloid humie player and action games are for babies, so they can't be too hard when it comes to reflexes.
If you think vergil is fast, think again, he's slow as shit.
>you can protray all that stuff in real time with modern technology
Surprisingly you can't.
For some reason action games can't really portray the full might of *teleports behind you* and countermeasure stacking autism that high level combat on otaku stories provide.
It's hard but doable on turn based, but pretty much fricking impossible in action games.
Hell, even just adding a grid and movement is enough to make it shit.
Turn-based party-based JRPGs remain the GOAT.
Frick any and all attempts to move away from it.
I wish japs would try making a CRPG like Baldurs Gate, curious how they would handle such a thing.
I'm curious too, but Japan doesn't really feel some special draw towards freedom in story so it's unlikely you'd ever see it.
How would you innovate it exactly
JRPG is like, illusion of choice since Wizadry.
I don't really give a frick about choice in story so long as I have some choice in gameplay. Enough room to frick up or do particularly well is all I ask.
If it ain't broke don't fix it.
Plus it's not like DQ and similar are the ONLY JRPGs out there.
Guess again Black person. DQ + Farm Simulator down your throat