Because the games need to be beatable by young children (less than 5). They should just add an option to disable all exp gains for people that want challenge runs.
It baffles and enrages me that they actually did introduce a selectable difficulty system in Gen V, but then made BOTH the easy and hard modes version exclusive, made it so you need to beat the game on another cartridge to unlock it, buried it under the unintuitive key system, and then completely discarded the idea in gen 6.
...yes? The entire fucking premise of every game ever is limiting how the player plays. Chess wouldn't be a game if you could move any piece to any spot on the board. Tic-tac-toe wouldn't be a game if you could mark any number of squares on your turn. "MORE OPSHUNS GOOD" is a braindead opinion only made by people who don't understand game design.
Oh no you're the guy on the autism spectrum that doesn't like volume sliders. We've gone over this in other threads; just because you don't like something doesn't mean other people also dislike it. Other people can have different likes and dislikes and that's fine. Don't let your anxiety get to you. Everything will be okay. Neither you, nor they, are playing the game "wrong."
>Oh no you're the guy on the autism spectrum that doesn't like volume sliders
? I like volume sliders.
>just because you don't like something doesn't mean other people also dislike it.
I agree. Which is why you should just play another game if you don't like it instead of begging it to turn into sandbox slop where you can mindlessly adjust all the mechanics.
It's dishonest to say that every aspect should be customizable.
At that point, you're making an argument against a strawman that doesn't exist.
There are thing that are perfectly fine to adjust, and Pokemon does those things less and less.
>There are thing that are perfectly fine to adjust
Yes. Like the volume. Or the text speed. Or the control scheme. What isn't fine to adjust is game mechanics.
>Level caps are working within the existing systme.
vanilla games don’t have level caps. for something to be part of an existing system, it has to exist.
>vanilla games don’t have level caps
Yes they do. I can't level my Pokemon above 100. I can't level my Pokemon above 50 in battle facilities. Putting a level cap based on gym badges is fine. The thing in the OP technically isn't even a level cap since the Bulbasaur is still getting 1 EXP.
>I'm terrible at designing romhacks for a series made for toddlers so I throw a tantrum when I need to actually use my brain instead of making my npc's number bigger than the player's number
great post anon, keep up the good work
>it's terrible design because it filters my poor skill
1 month ago
Anonymous
>Yes they do. I can't level my Pokemon above 100. I can't level my Pokemon above 50 in battle facilities.
splitting hairs is an admission of defeat. you know damn well what I mean, but you don’t have an argument so you’re trying to waste time with trivial bullshit.
ligma balls
1 month ago
Anonymous
>w-w-w-wait no those level caps don't count they go against my narrative
concession accepted
and it's fine anon, I won't put level caps in my game, I'll just make it so once you're past a certain level you only get 1 EXP per battle 🙂
1 month ago
Anonymous
I can just imagine you throwing a hissy fit in some discord server when someone mentions they use a gameshark code
1 month ago
Anonymous
The rate that Pokemon level up doesn't affect game mechanics. It's just there as a time saver for people that want it. Case in point, it's standard practice when playing nuzlock runs to just use rare candies and the newer games give out exp candies; should they not do that because it lets Pokemon level too quickly?
1 month ago
Anonymous
The whole point of pokemon is adjusting the game mechanics to your liking. Some people plan their team in advance, some people just pick whichever pokemon they like. Some keep their pokemon from the beginning and some like changing them when they are about to challenge a boss. Some want to beat the game with 6 raticates. That's the fun of it. The battle system is simple and not very fun. IV-EV, held item, learnset optimization don't really solve the problem core problems just add tedious layers to ir
1 month ago
Anonymous
>The whole point of pokemon is adjusting the game mechanics to your liking
No it isn’t. Where in Gen 1 do I adjust the mechanics of the game?
1 month ago
Anonymous
By picking with which pokemon you play and how much you train them. The characters you play with, their stats and skills are a core part of the mechanics of an rpg. Pokemon distinguished itself by allowing the player to adjust this mechanic to an extent no other RPG had done before. To my own taste that's still the main attraction of the series.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>By picking with which pokemon you play and how much you train them
That's not adjusting the mechanics of the game. That's just playing the game.
1 month ago
Anonymous
She’s saying you don’t have to have a Victreebel in Bellsprout Tower.
Level scaling and caps are just proof that devs are lazy fucks that can't bother with creating proper difficulty curve and instead put arbitrary mechanical limitations on player that make no sense.
Go figure out - if you give every damn trainer 6 Pokemon, player will obtain experience in significantly quicker pace and then if you give player more options, the balance is doing all the retarded shit and you need to put shit-ass duct tape limitations to stop it from collapsing.
I wish there were actually based hack devs that can create more than just Smogon lite with level caps and actually are willing to play around with Player's options to craft proper difficulty curve. But alas, all hack devs nowadays are just mentally stunted fucks doing it for clicks.
>I wish there were actually based hack devs that can create more than just Smogon lite with level caps and actually are willing to play around with Player's options to craft proper difficulty curve
Clover
Clover was good. And actually used soft level caps in non-intrusive way.
But I'm thinking more about difficulty in a way of oldschool dungeon crawler. Make player respect these low-bst shitters and actually care about resources by making them buck broke. And force them to crawl through dungeons with no easy option to just leave. Make them bleed by death of thousand cuts because of their lack of preparation. Or just weaken enough that next boss/mini-boss with curbstomb their ass.
continuing my little rant - remove fucking free pokecenters and increase prices of items. That should be first thing to do. You want to spam potions? Sure you fucking can but will you have cash to catch new Pokemon or to buy items needed to get through next route?
>I need to make my game hard but can't organically do it or I get autistically upset when people would rather just level to get past it so I enforce an arbitrary restriction
>I can’t put 5 moves on my pokemon because the game said so >I can’t have a 10 pokemon party because the game said so >I can’t use multiple healing items per turn because the game said so
>I'm terrible at a series made for toddlers so I throw a tantrum when I need to actually use my brain instead of making my number bigger than the npc's number
>I'm terrible at designing romhacks for a series made for toddlers so I throw a tantrum when I need to actually use my brain instead of making my npc's number bigger than the player's number
great post anon, keep up the good work
>when one of your pokemon reaches a designated level you must battle a gym leader on the spot and if you lose you have to reset from your last save
what now
the reason level caps are gay while other restrictions aren’t is because you decided to make a romhack of pokemon specifically, but instead of working within the existing system or changing it into something different, things that would require effort, you’re slapping a quickfix on it. you can’t stand the idea of people overleveling and stomping your game but you also can’t be assed to put anything in to discourage it.
>Level caps are working within the existing systme.
vanilla games don’t have level caps. for something to be part of an existing system, it has to exist.
the vanilla games straight up do have level caps, also why do you give a fuck about romhacks working differently than the piss easy regular games? Isn't that the point of a romhack?
Introduce the stat mechanics from Legends into the core games. Levels now primarily serve to be a gateway to moves and evolutions, but your stats are going to require you to commit to boosting your Effort Levels, or else a well-trained NPC's Pokemon, even at Level 50, has a good chance of completely mogging your Level 100 Garchomp.
The best way to avoid over levelling is to make it scale. Those low level shitters in the wild you're grinding on? If you go too high they'll give you just one exp per KO.
The best way to avoid over leveling is to change the way experience is given out. When you defeat Pokemon, instead of getting experience, you should just get Exp Candies. Then you can choose to use as few or as many as you want on exactly the Pokemon that need it.
It's giving the player the freedom to play the game how they want, which people like. Look at games like Minecraft, Breath of the Wild, or even older Pokemon games. Players love open ended systems they can play with and break.
The phrase "too much" is subjective. Besides, you're always better erring on the side of caution and giving out more freedoms than less, because players can always choose not to take advantage of them if you gave out too many, but cannot easily add them back if you gave out too few.
Breath of the Wild doesn’t let you turn off stamina or durability. That’s effectively what you’re asking for. You’re filtered by a game mechanic and want to bypass it instead of getting better at the game.
Play it with mods and you can turn those off. Not surprisingly, the game is better with mods that add in even more options. And yes, games are toys, games are not jobs. You shouldn't be forced to "get better" at a game if you don't want to. Simultaneously you shouldn't be forced to play a boring or easy game if you don't want to. Games should have a wide range of options so players can choose the way they want to play and so overall more players can enjoy the game.
if the amount of exp. candies you can get is strictly limited, i can see this being a fun system.
the problem is that it doesn’t actually fix the overleveling issue.
>List of Ice types in OU or Uber
Arceus Ice- does this even count
Baxcaliber
Calyrex-Ice
Chien-Pao-fast sweeper
Iron Bundle-Fast sweeper
Alolan Ninetales
So 3 Pokemon who aren't fast sweepers. Looking at the SM and SWSH tiers adds
all the Kyurems
Galarian Darmanitan-fast sweeper though that requires Zen mode
Weavile-fast sweeper
so that makes 4 good Ice type Pokemon that aren't fast sweepers
ice has the least amount of pokemon and not that many pokemon are in OU or Uber in the first place, so the fact that there are that many that are usable says a lot about the state of ice as a type. they are in a much better spot than the days as only existing for water types to have some dragon coverage
When the player can infinitely grind for EXP there needs to be more than their self-control to create anything resembling a difficulty curve. This applies to every game with rebattleable Trainers and re-encounterable wild Pokemon. But games without rebattleable Trainers just have you pouring your EXP into a lead because it's most efficient (Gen 1 and basically Gen 2) and the same would apply even with modern EXP share (you'd pour your EXP into your 6 man team because it's more efficient).
BW had something resembling the right idea of a middle ground of no cap vs hard caps with the EXP curve; the lower level you are in comparison to the opponent the more raw EXP you get, and the higher level you are the less raw EXP you get. I don't think that BW actually nailed the balance because you can just steamroll the entire game with basically any Pokemon, but it's closer to getting it "right" if you don't like a hard cap system imo because the option to grind still exists, it's just discouraged to a degree.
No one cares about playing in the most efficient way. Using one pokemon isn't even more efficient anyways, since it takes the exact same amount of effort to beat any of the games with a team of 6 or 1.
>nobody cares about efficiency >now let me tell you why it's not efficient
You certainly seem to care enough to lie. Gen 1 and 2 have dedicated speedrun Pokemon (Nidoking/Clefable and Feraligatr) because just pouring your gains into one Pokemon is just the fastest and most efficient way to play those games. I'm not as familiar with Gen 3-5, but it was definitely something the community picked up on. Unless "needing to spend less time grinding and healing" isn't the same as efficient in your worldview.
Final Fantasy 7 is a bad game because you can just grind to level 99 before planting the bomb
your argument was that we need to enforce a limitation on players to prevent grinding when that's a thing in every RPG. If you don't want grinding to ruin your difficulty then don't make an RPG but I guess your game wouldn't be given the time of day if it wasn't a Pokemon romhack
If you want to be a speed running autist the fastest way is with some code manipulation bullshit. >Unless "needing to spend less time grinding and healing" isn't the same as efficient in your worldview.
This is why you're a pathetic retard. You think you actually need to grind when you don't play like an autistic loser.
your argument was that we need to enforce a limitation on players to prevent grinding when that's a thing in every RPG. If you don't want grinding to ruin your difficulty then don't make an RPG but I guess your game wouldn't be given the time of day if it wasn't a Pokemon romhack
I know we're on /vp/ but surely a braindead retard could have figured out the difference between "fighting every trainer and most wild enemies I run into puts me 5-10 levels above the boss" and "grinding for 1000 hours got me to cap in the tutorial". I also as a matter of fact did not say we have to enforce limitations on players, just that if you want a middle ground between allowing infinite grinding and a hard level cap the BW exp system was a good idea for it. I was intentionally neutral on the issue, but I'm sure reading comprehension isn't your strong suit.
The entire argument, that you've so expertly avoided, is that because the game is just as easy whether you use a full team or go solo it makes no difference in efficiency whether you do use a full team or not.
It's not even really an argument. It's just a fact. You also ignored me pointing out that your "dedicated speedrun Pokemon" aren't even the fastest way to beat the game. No argument is right and about what I'd expect from someone who hides behind greentext.
1 month ago
Anonymous
I get it anon, you're retarded and trying to get (You)'s. But pretending you're just a massive autist instead, I was clearly talking about normal gameplay and not code manipulation. You know, glitchless runs. If that genuinely had to be spelled out for you I'm sorry you have genuine mental retardation. I didn't address your garbage argument because anyone with functioning neurons could tell it was dishonest at face value.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>just as easy whether you use a full team or go solo it makes no difference in efficiency whether you do use a full team or not.
No the game is far easier if you just use 1 Pokemon fro the entire game.
Overleveled as fuck 1 shotting everything while being unkillable
They should just make every Gym Leader in the game have a specific level, but they also make sure you cant out level them.
For example, Gym Leader X has 4 level 40 mons.
You fight him with a bunch of 35-40s, he stays level 40.
You fight him while having a 49 in your party, his whole party is 49.
>1 Exp. Point
Doesn't this defeat the purpose? The whole argument for level caps is that the player could theoretically grind to level 100 if they were autistic enough and that's le bad. So the solution is.. to leave the grinding possibility open anyway?
Literally just port the disobedience mechanics to normally caught pokemon, instead of only having them work for traded monsters. And have the disobedience scale the higher above the level cap your monster is.
No need for a hard level cap. Just a strong means of dissuading the player from going overboard.
Then it’s a bitch about the game being too random. The game is hard now! Well, if you don’t like that maybe you could try relearning moves after earning them by unlocking them with gym badges.
There was an idea of badges giving you a stat boost, go further. Let’s unlock the stat.
You start off with HP, ATK, DEF but no speed. You will always go second against the AI.
There is no randomness, just stay under the level cap and the game will play as normal.
Only if you exceed it, will your monster become too powerful to control. In which case you only have yourself to blame.
only time I've ever run into the cap is against Erika as her Pokemon are right at your current cap when you face her. It would really only screw over players who decide to do solo runs and even then only early game. Once they get the 4th badge they're good. Yellow is the only game where the 6th gym approaches 50
TBF, you'd probably change the scaling.
So that Level ~60 was only reached by the 7th/8th gym and unlocked level wouldn't be achieved until beating the E4.
Pokemon needs more than just level caps or level scaling. They need to actually make use of EVs and IVs with bosses besides the very last trainers or bonus trainers. It doesn't matter if you level match a gym when they have 0 EVs in every stat.
Ignoring the FOMO part of this franchise
Ignoring Japan used to getting the games first
The biggest bitches on here are the guys fucking planning their team to beat STORY MODE. One type this One type that, the biggest homosexuals on the planet!
Ignoring the FOMO part of this franchise
Ignoring Japan used to getting the games first
The biggest bitches on here are the guys fucking planning their team to beat STORY MODE. One type this One type that, the biggest homosexuals on the planet!
hmmm maybe instead of the archaic and retarded EV and IV system there could be skill points you get every level that you can use to further increase a stat
or just having items like pebbles and rocks to increase a stat you wan- oh wait
Why even bother with levels at that point?
learned moves, evolutions, damage scaling
autism
You can do that with other checkpoints, there's plenty of non-level-based RPGs to draw inspiration from
To scale difficulty. I can cap the player at lv20 then have a have a hard boss set at lv25 or a harder boss set at lv30.
Sounds like good game design bravo anon
It would be harder but between free switches, potions, revives and X items I think most players will be able to handle a level gap
>between free switches
clover actually does something interesting about that, if you set it to switch mode, the opponent has switch mode on too
Did you like it? Do you like a 1/8 crit chance toggle too?
Would rather just have items disabled for bosses instead.
Oblivion style gameplay is not for everyone. It's shit but it's what zoomies like.
It’s bad and lazy game design
>I need to be overleveled to make up for my shit team and strategy
skill issue
>I, Game Freak, need to guess the team of what this guy is doing so they will say the game is hood. Childhood.
I'd like level caps and level scaling in Pokemon, but the latter is easier to justify in universe, without more lore about how experience gain works.
Yeah i never understood why gamefreak doesn't use this for their games. Though then again they probably fuck it up some how.
Because the games need to be beatable by young children (less than 5). They should just add an option to disable all exp gains for people that want challenge runs.
It baffles and enrages me that they actually did introduce a selectable difficulty system in Gen V, but then made BOTH the easy and hard modes version exclusive, made it so you need to beat the game on another cartridge to unlock it, buried it under the unintuitive key system, and then completely discarded the idea in gen 6.
higher level Pokemon just means more experience meaning the extra levels are pointless. You want a hard mode, use shitty Pokemon
It was there for a hack like you to read it
>limiting the ways the game can be played is good
...yes? The entire fucking premise of every game ever is limiting how the player plays. Chess wouldn't be a game if you could move any piece to any spot on the board. Tic-tac-toe wouldn't be a game if you could mark any number of squares on your turn. "MORE OPSHUNS GOOD" is a braindead opinion only made by people who don't understand game design.
Oh no you're the guy on the autism spectrum that doesn't like volume sliders. We've gone over this in other threads; just because you don't like something doesn't mean other people also dislike it. Other people can have different likes and dislikes and that's fine. Don't let your anxiety get to you. Everything will be okay. Neither you, nor they, are playing the game "wrong."
>Oh no you're the guy on the autism spectrum that doesn't like volume sliders
? I like volume sliders.
>just because you don't like something doesn't mean other people also dislike it.
I agree. Which is why you should just play another game if you don't like it instead of begging it to turn into sandbox slop where you can mindlessly adjust all the mechanics.
It's dishonest to say that every aspect should be customizable.
At that point, you're making an argument against a strawman that doesn't exist.
There are thing that are perfectly fine to adjust, and Pokemon does those things less and less.
>There are thing that are perfectly fine to adjust
Yes. Like the volume. Or the text speed. Or the control scheme. What isn't fine to adjust is game mechanics.
>vanilla games don’t have level caps
Yes they do. I can't level my Pokemon above 100. I can't level my Pokemon above 50 in battle facilities. Putting a level cap based on gym badges is fine. The thing in the OP technically isn't even a level cap since the Bulbasaur is still getting 1 EXP.
>it's terrible design because it filters my poor skill
>Yes they do. I can't level my Pokemon above 100. I can't level my Pokemon above 50 in battle facilities.
splitting hairs is an admission of defeat. you know damn well what I mean, but you don’t have an argument so you’re trying to waste time with trivial bullshit.
ligma balls
>w-w-w-wait no those level caps don't count they go against my narrative
concession accepted
and it's fine anon, I won't put level caps in my game, I'll just make it so once you're past a certain level you only get 1 EXP per battle 🙂
I can just imagine you throwing a hissy fit in some discord server when someone mentions they use a gameshark code
The rate that Pokemon level up doesn't affect game mechanics. It's just there as a time saver for people that want it. Case in point, it's standard practice when playing nuzlock runs to just use rare candies and the newer games give out exp candies; should they not do that because it lets Pokemon level too quickly?
The whole point of pokemon is adjusting the game mechanics to your liking. Some people plan their team in advance, some people just pick whichever pokemon they like. Some keep their pokemon from the beginning and some like changing them when they are about to challenge a boss. Some want to beat the game with 6 raticates. That's the fun of it. The battle system is simple and not very fun. IV-EV, held item, learnset optimization don't really solve the problem core problems just add tedious layers to ir
>The whole point of pokemon is adjusting the game mechanics to your liking
No it isn’t. Where in Gen 1 do I adjust the mechanics of the game?
By picking with which pokemon you play and how much you train them. The characters you play with, their stats and skills are a core part of the mechanics of an rpg. Pokemon distinguished itself by allowing the player to adjust this mechanic to an extent no other RPG had done before. To my own taste that's still the main attraction of the series.
>By picking with which pokemon you play and how much you train them
That's not adjusting the mechanics of the game. That's just playing the game.
She’s saying you don’t have to have a Victreebel in Bellsprout Tower.
right. i like screen zoom options.
Option B is more of a lack of design.
Option B is more quiet for all these new open world games coming out
pokemon is a casual video game
no amount of lipstick on the pig can change that
Level scaling and caps are just proof that devs are lazy fucks that can't bother with creating proper difficulty curve and instead put arbitrary mechanical limitations on player that make no sense.
Go figure out - if you give every damn trainer 6 Pokemon, player will obtain experience in significantly quicker pace and then if you give player more options, the balance is doing all the retarded shit and you need to put shit-ass duct tape limitations to stop it from collapsing.
I wish there were actually based hack devs that can create more than just Smogon lite with level caps and actually are willing to play around with Player's options to craft proper difficulty curve. But alas, all hack devs nowadays are just mentally stunted fucks doing it for clicks.
>I wish there were actually based hack devs that can create more than just Smogon lite with level caps and actually are willing to play around with Player's options to craft proper difficulty curve
Clover
Clover was good. And actually used soft level caps in non-intrusive way.
But I'm thinking more about difficulty in a way of oldschool dungeon crawler. Make player respect these low-bst shitters and actually care about resources by making them buck broke. And force them to crawl through dungeons with no easy option to just leave. Make them bleed by death of thousand cuts because of their lack of preparation. Or just weaken enough that next boss/mini-boss with curbstomb their ass.
continuing my little rant - remove fucking free pokecenters and increase prices of items. That should be first thing to do. You want to spam potions? Sure you fucking can but will you have cash to catch new Pokemon or to buy items needed to get through next route?
clover is smogon lite
>play offensively
>it works
no.
> can't bother with creating proper difficulty curve
Level caps are for creating a proper difficulty curve.
>i-it makes no sense!
How?
>I need to make my game hard but can't organically do it or I get autistically upset when people would rather just level to get past it so I enforce an arbitrary restriction
>>I need to make my game hard but can't organically do it
Putting in level caps is a way of organically doing it.
>I can't level my Pokemon because the game said so
Doesn't sound organic
Imagine being so shit at pokemon, wow skill issue.
>any criticism towards your so called "hard" hacks just gets met with skill issue because you can't actually make a challenge
>complaining about difficulty
>not a skill issue
Uh…
>I can’t put 5 moves on my pokemon because the game said so
>I can’t have a 10 pokemon party because the game said so
>I can’t use multiple healing items per turn because the game said so
>I'm terrible at a series made for toddlers so I throw a tantrum when I need to actually use my brain instead of making my number bigger than the npc's number
>I'm terrible at designing romhacks for a series made for toddlers so I throw a tantrum when I need to actually use my brain instead of making my npc's number bigger than the player's number
great post anon, keep up the good work
>bosses/gym leaders automatically scale to your highest lvl pokemon
what now
The masses want a 60 minute pokemon battle where at the end they win anyways.
>when one of your pokemon reaches a designated level you must battle a gym leader on the spot and if you lose you have to reset from your last save
what now
the reason level caps are gay while other restrictions aren’t is because you decided to make a romhack of pokemon specifically, but instead of working within the existing system or changing it into something different, things that would require effort, you’re slapping a quickfix on it. you can’t stand the idea of people overleveling and stomping your game but you also can’t be assed to put anything in to discourage it.
>but instead of working within the existing system or changing it into something different
Level caps are working within the existing systme.
>but you also can’t be assed to put anything in to discourage it.
Level caps do discourage it.
>Level caps are working within the existing systme.
vanilla games don’t have level caps. for something to be part of an existing system, it has to exist.
obedience is basically level caps with RNG. Even worse
and that was organically worked in. If they just made obedience work on every Pokemon instead of just traded ones I doubt I'd have an issue with it
the vanilla games straight up do have level caps, also why do you give a fuck about romhacks working differently than the piss easy regular games? Isn't that the point of a romhack?
there is nothing "discouraging" about force
Introduce the stat mechanics from Legends into the core games. Levels now primarily serve to be a gateway to moves and evolutions, but your stats are going to require you to commit to boosting your Effort Levels, or else a well-trained NPC's Pokemon, even at Level 50, has a good chance of completely mogging your Level 100 Garchomp.
>don't do levels just grind stats directly, see it's good because now it requires pointless tedium and grind to achieve the same results
The best way to avoid over levelling is to make it scale. Those low level shitters in the wild you're grinding on? If you go too high they'll give you just one exp per KO.
The best way to avoid over leveling is to change the way experience is given out. When you defeat Pokemon, instead of getting experience, you should just get Exp Candies. Then you can choose to use as few or as many as you want on exactly the Pokemon that need it.
That's just making the player design the game for you.
It's giving the player the freedom to play the game how they want, which people like. Look at games like Minecraft, Breath of the Wild, or even older Pokemon games. Players love open ended systems they can play with and break.
Too much freedom is a bad thing.
The phrase "too much" is subjective. Besides, you're always better erring on the side of caution and giving out more freedoms than less, because players can always choose not to take advantage of them if you gave out too many, but cannot easily add them back if you gave out too few.
Breath of the Wild doesn’t let you turn off stamina or durability. That’s effectively what you’re asking for. You’re filtered by a game mechanic and want to bypass it instead of getting better at the game.
Play it with mods and you can turn those off. Not surprisingly, the game is better with mods that add in even more options. And yes, games are toys, games are not jobs. You shouldn't be forced to "get better" at a game if you don't want to. Simultaneously you shouldn't be forced to play a boring or easy game if you don't want to. Games should have a wide range of options so players can choose the way they want to play and so overall more players can enjoy the game.
All failures in my eyes
if the amount of exp. candies you can get is strictly limited, i can see this being a fun system.
the problem is that it doesn’t actually fix the overleveling issue.
>level cap, just use super effective moves and still one shot every pokemon
what's the point
Pokemon players are allergic to being successful on their own because they are ugly.
>List of Ice types in OU or Uber
Arceus Ice- does this even count
Baxcaliber
Calyrex-Ice
Chien-Pao-fast sweeper
Iron Bundle-Fast sweeper
Alolan Ninetales
So 3 Pokemon who aren't fast sweepers. Looking at the SM and SWSH tiers adds
all the Kyurems
Galarian Darmanitan-fast sweeper though that requires Zen mode
Weavile-fast sweeper
so that makes 4 good Ice type Pokemon that aren't fast sweepers
shit, wrong thread
>exp share toggle thread
>ice types need a buff thread
>unova hate thread
There should just be a /we're having the same arguments daily/ general.
if you’re tired of having the same arguments, stop arguing
I'm tired of retards forgiving Game Freak's laziness and jumping through hoops to say "it's actually good game design, they're just that good, guys."
ice has the least amount of pokemon and not that many pokemon are in OU or Uber in the first place, so the fact that there are that many that are usable says a lot about the state of ice as a type. they are in a much better spot than the days as only existing for water types to have some dragon coverage
Level caps are unnecessary if you control the amount of EXP being handed out better.
Especially these days where RNG encounters aren't a thing.
Bad game design in response to bad game design. Level caps wouldn't be necessary if the game didn't give you the modern Exp Share.
yeah bro totally
I’m so glad this game is balanced and I’m not overleveled since there’s no modern exp share
You should stop spamming that image.
You should stop making retarded nonsensical arguments.
When the player can infinitely grind for EXP there needs to be more than their self-control to create anything resembling a difficulty curve. This applies to every game with rebattleable Trainers and re-encounterable wild Pokemon. But games without rebattleable Trainers just have you pouring your EXP into a lead because it's most efficient (Gen 1 and basically Gen 2) and the same would apply even with modern EXP share (you'd pour your EXP into your 6 man team because it's more efficient).
BW had something resembling the right idea of a middle ground of no cap vs hard caps with the EXP curve; the lower level you are in comparison to the opponent the more raw EXP you get, and the higher level you are the less raw EXP you get. I don't think that BW actually nailed the balance because you can just steamroll the entire game with basically any Pokemon, but it's closer to getting it "right" if you don't like a hard cap system imo because the option to grind still exists, it's just discouraged to a degree.
No one cares about playing in the most efficient way. Using one pokemon isn't even more efficient anyways, since it takes the exact same amount of effort to beat any of the games with a team of 6 or 1.
>nobody cares about efficiency
>now let me tell you why it's not efficient
You certainly seem to care enough to lie. Gen 1 and 2 have dedicated speedrun Pokemon (Nidoking/Clefable and Feraligatr) because just pouring your gains into one Pokemon is just the fastest and most efficient way to play those games. I'm not as familiar with Gen 3-5, but it was definitely something the community picked up on. Unless "needing to spend less time grinding and healing" isn't the same as efficient in your worldview.
Great bait, try harder next time.
your argument was that we need to enforce a limitation on players to prevent grinding when that's a thing in every RPG. If you don't want grinding to ruin your difficulty then don't make an RPG but I guess your game wouldn't be given the time of day if it wasn't a Pokemon romhack
If you want to be a speed running autist the fastest way is with some code manipulation bullshit.
>Unless "needing to spend less time grinding and healing" isn't the same as efficient in your worldview.
This is why you're a pathetic retard. You think you actually need to grind when you don't play like an autistic loser.
>no argument
concession accepted
I know we're on /vp/ but surely a braindead retard could have figured out the difference between "fighting every trainer and most wild enemies I run into puts me 5-10 levels above the boss" and "grinding for 1000 hours got me to cap in the tutorial". I also as a matter of fact did not say we have to enforce limitations on players, just that if you want a middle ground between allowing infinite grinding and a hard level cap the BW exp system was a good idea for it. I was intentionally neutral on the issue, but I'm sure reading comprehension isn't your strong suit.
>When the player can infinitely grind for EXP there needs to be more than their self-control to create anything resembling a difficulty curve.
I did like the BW solution
I didn’t notice it.
The entire argument, that you've so expertly avoided, is that because the game is just as easy whether you use a full team or go solo it makes no difference in efficiency whether you do use a full team or not.
It's not even really an argument. It's just a fact. You also ignored me pointing out that your "dedicated speedrun Pokemon" aren't even the fastest way to beat the game. No argument is right and about what I'd expect from someone who hides behind greentext.
I get it anon, you're retarded and trying to get (You)'s. But pretending you're just a massive autist instead, I was clearly talking about normal gameplay and not code manipulation. You know, glitchless runs. If that genuinely had to be spelled out for you I'm sorry you have genuine mental retardation. I didn't address your garbage argument because anyone with functioning neurons could tell it was dishonest at face value.
>just as easy whether you use a full team or go solo it makes no difference in efficiency whether you do use a full team or not.
No the game is far easier if you just use 1 Pokemon fro the entire game.
Overleveled as fuck 1 shotting everything while being unkillable
Final Fantasy 7 is a bad game because you can just grind to level 99 before planting the bomb
They should just make every Gym Leader in the game have a specific level, but they also make sure you cant out level them.
For example, Gym Leader X has 4 level 40 mons.
You fight him with a bunch of 35-40s, he stays level 40.
You fight him while having a 49 in your party, his whole party is 49.
>1 Exp. Point
Doesn't this defeat the purpose? The whole argument for level caps is that the player could theoretically grind to level 100 if they were autistic enough and that's le bad. So the solution is.. to leave the grinding possibility open anyway?
Literally just port the disobedience mechanics to normally caught pokemon, instead of only having them work for traded monsters. And have the disobedience scale the higher above the level cap your monster is.
No need for a hard level cap. Just a strong means of dissuading the player from going overboard.
Then it’s a bitch about the game being too random. The game is hard now! Well, if you don’t like that maybe you could try relearning moves after earning them by unlocking them with gym badges.
There was an idea of badges giving you a stat boost, go further. Let’s unlock the stat.
You start off with HP, ATK, DEF but no speed. You will always go second against the AI.
There is no randomness, just stay under the level cap and the game will play as normal.
Only if you exceed it, will your monster become too powerful to control. In which case you only have yourself to blame.
only time I've ever run into the cap is against Erika as her Pokemon are right at your current cap when you face her. It would really only screw over players who decide to do solo runs and even then only early game. Once they get the 4th badge they're good. Yellow is the only game where the 6th gym approaches 50
TBF, you'd probably change the scaling.
So that Level ~60 was only reached by the 7th/8th gym and unlocked level wouldn't be achieved until beating the E4.
0-15
1-25
2-30
3-35
4-40
5-45
6-50
7-65
8-70
Champion-100
Who is evolving higher than Hydreigon?
You do know you have an extra option in Kanto in gym leader after Vermillion right?
You know, anyone that uses "skill issue" as an argument is admitting that they can't form an actual argument
it’s bad and lazy game design
Pokemon needs more than just level caps or level scaling. They need to actually make use of EVs and IVs with bosses besides the very last trainers or bonus trainers. It doesn't matter if you level match a gym when they have 0 EVs in every stat.
Ignoring the FOMO part of this franchise
Ignoring Japan used to getting the games first
The biggest bitches on here are the guys fucking planning their team to beat STORY MODE. One type this One type that, the biggest homosexuals on the planet!
I plan my team to use my favorites, not for any type of metagaming bullshit
hmmm maybe instead of the archaic and retarded EV and IV system there could be skill points you get every level that you can use to further increase a stat
or just having items like pebbles and rocks to increase a stat you wan- oh wait
Pokemon isn’t a club only you beat.
i don't mind it all that much, it's the only way autists can do their weedle only challenge
I want everybody to have Furret on their team by the time they challenge me.
Make the playable character brown. Super hard. No one can beat it and said they won.
Level cap work just fine if game actually force those dumb cunts to constantly switch parties.
Problem is everyone gluing a starter + 1 or 2 broken Mons while rest is filler.