NTA but consider adapting
Dragapult is overused as shit already and runs infiltrator
Sound moves, hazards (which are everywhere), taunt, and just strong mons (which are also everywhere) shut this shit down
I love how everyone can complain about how CrAzY the power level is then also b***h that a shitmon gets free weak subs
1 year ago
Anonymous
And I get it passes those subs to something better, but they're not great subs
1 year ago
Anonymous
You shed tail to dragonite. You click dragon dance. I don't think there's anything that can get through a multiscale sub especially if you shed tail against something without sound or infiltration. Don't be dumb
1 year ago
Anonymous
So switch on the shed tail?
You can see what they are likely to pass to in preview and you should have an idea of what sweepers you need to cover anyway
You have to team-building and predict a little, the game can't just play itself
1 year ago
Anonymous
>bro just let me set up and sweep you bro
Sneed and Chuck
1 year ago
Anonymous
I'm literally saying "bro stop me from sweeping" and telling you how
1 year ago
Anonymous
The other consideration though is that Cyclizar gets respectable special attack, so it can fire of a Draco Meteor or Overheat using Choice Specs for something you switched in anticipating a physical Dragon Dance user, Knock Off to get rid of an item on the wall you were sending in, or U-Turn to scout and send out something other than what you predicted.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Draco Meteor on cyclizar is pretty niche. And anyway that's just like...the game. Both players make predictions based on the information you have, and there's not always a totally safe option. In the case of cyclizar though, there were a number of options nonetheless, so I think the ban is disappointing
Thus one should have gone to a suspect
1 year ago
Anonymous
I wouldn't exactly call a powerful Stab with the downside of needing to switch on a mon that loves to switch 'niche'.
I think the distinction in this case is that while predicting a Shed Tail and getting hit with a Knock Off, Rapid Spin, U-Turn, or Draco Meteor instead when you switch isn't too bad, predicting any of those others and them using Shed Tail means they've got a powerful set up sweeper who will get at least one turn for free.
And if you do predict the switch and send out a counter? They can hit your counter for some chip damage as you burn the sub, and then just switch out their setup sweeper for later. And Cyclizar is back to 83% thanks to Regenerator, meaning that as the game progresses, it can come back in, U-Turn or clear hazards, and attempt to do the same thing all over again.
And even if you take out Cyclizar, you still haven't actually dealt with the setup sweeper. You've simply made it harder for it to set up.
1 year ago
Anonymous
I don't think I'd ever want Draco Meteor over knock off, u-turn, or spin, but actually the rest is fair enough. If it didn't have either rapid spin or knock off it would be way more manageable but I see what you mean about its kit
1 year ago
Anonymous
Draco meteor + scarf is perfect to frick over other Cyclizars, it's a personal favorite
1 year ago
Anonymous
>So switch on the shed tail?
Anon, why do you think U-Turn and its variants have been such historically good moves?
It's because switching has the highest priority. Meaning that if you click a pivot move and your opponent switches, you can just go right into a counter to what they switched into in a single turn. This is known as "momentum".
The same applies to Shed Tail, but you also get a substitute in addition to the momentum.
Switching on the Shed Tail just means that your opponent can choose which Shed Tail recipient to go into to counter your counter. >You can see what they are likely to pass to in preview
On a bad team, yes. A good team built around Shed Tail will have multiple recipients.
Bans are made with good players in mind.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>switch to Dnite counter >opponant tail shed on your counter's counter >do not switch to Dnite counter >opponant gets to easily set up with Dnite and wins the game
Do you fricking understand now?
1 year ago
Anonymous
Uh...just have coverage to check the "counter" to your counter. Sounds like a MASSIVE skill issue, sweetie...
1 year ago
Anonymous
>just have coverage to counter 3 other Pokémon on one Pokémon bro (not counting Grimmsnarl)
1 year ago
Anonymous
Yes. Maybe the skill issue was even bigger than I thought if you think that's unreasonable...poor bab 🙁
1 year ago
Anonymous
>switch to your dragonite counter >they don't switch to dragonite because they get to see what you switched to first
based moron
1 year ago
Anonymous
By forcing them to pass to something suboptimal you get chip on two mons, and have a good chance to stop the sweep
If their team is just sweepers and cyclizar, and for some reason that works then that's on you, not shed tail
1 year ago
Anonymous
I'm stoked to play cyclizar lugia
1 year ago
Anonymous
>cyclizar lugia
How do you stop it?
1 year ago
Anonymous
Literally anything, honestly. Lugia has been dead weight for nearly a decade now, and when it comes back in the inevitable DLC legendary portals next year it’s not even going to have toxic anymore. Remember this thing has 90/90 offenses in a tier where Arceus, the XYZ legends, Necrozma, Calyrex, and now Miraidon are running around.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Switch to multi hit moves.
Baxcalibur can dance and kill with ice spear using loaded dice.
1 year ago
Anonymous
What about mimikyu
1 year ago
Anonymous
>I love how everyone can complain about how CrAzY the power level is then also b***h that a shitmon gets free weak subs
IMO it's not the shitmon's fault here, it's really how it just enables too much of a favorable position. Usually a set-up sweeper who gets a free turn if you let this happens
1 year ago
Anonymous
>Just use taunt bro >Vs a pokemon faster than everything in the tier except meow, pult, chien that frequently runs choice scarf anyway
Also if you switch pult or a whirlwind user in on reaction they can shed to Hatterene to reflect the whirlwind and tera so your ghost move does nothing and beat your ass
1 year ago
Anonymous
>I love how everyone can complain about how CrAzY the power level is then also b***h that a shitmon gets free weak subs
But it's not the shitmon getting a free weak sub. It's the next mon you send in getting the sub.
And a sub is a sub. Even if the sub only had 1 HP, it's still withstanding one hit for free. Nobody is claiming that Cyclizar is broken because it's making the other mon completely invincible. But it gives a free turn to the next mon sent in. Usually a setup sweeper.
You could say to use Taunt, but Cyclizar is fast.
You could say to use hazards, but setup sweepers are just as strong at low HP as they are at max HP.
You could say to use Dragapult, but taking a turn to switch in is still giving a free turn to the opponent.
You could say to use sound moves, but that means either switching on or using a full team of mons with sound moves.
Shed Tail just further enables the crazy power level.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>But it gives a free turn to the next mon sent in. Usually a setup sweeper.
That's why it was banned.
If it was a benefit to stall, it would be here forever. But it purely helped offense.
This is why Garganacl, Dondozo, and Goldengo will never be banned.
1 year ago
Anonymous
shed tail -> priority screens grimmsnarl -> parting shot into sweeper is the most braindead shit ever
Why are you going “muh omgon muh smogon tard” when smogon did the opposite of what that “smogontard” is saying? They kept the sinergy, didn’t separate mon from sig move.
And why does no one in the replies to your post acknowledge this?
This board is filled with morons, jesus christ. I reckon comp-related threads ironically bring the morons in and coomer threads have higher IQ posters
>when this thing gets to be one of the best support pokémon while meganium is still shit
This franchise sucks ass and the mindless sheep who only care about popular Pokémon can suck my ass.
>what are you, bad or something?
You clearly are. If you were good, your ability to counter with dragapult would have made other people realize this combo wasn't broken. But I guess your inability to sway anyone means that you and your strategy aren't reliable.
Sounds like a skill issue for you!
>Entire game outside of occasional double/triple/rotation is 6v6 singles >"NOOO GF NEVER INTENDED YOU TO PLAY THAT YOU SHOULD BE PLAYING VGC EXCLUSIVELY"
lmao
>GF never intended you to play that
who are you quoting.
I said the game isn't balanced for 6v6. Because it clearly isn't. The game also let's you dump potions, X items and other moronic game breaking shit during single player. Why aren't you playing 6v6 with X items.
>hey, maybe if certain Pokemon get upwards of 90% usage, that's a sign of poor balance >OH SO YOU THINK A META SHOULDN'T EXIST AT ALL, HUH?!
1 year ago
Anonymous
>if certain Pokemon get upwards of 90% usage, that's a sign of poor balance
Yeah! That's why Lando keeps being banned to Ubers!
moron.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>lando >90% usage
you don't know what you're talking about
>But it gives a free turn to the next mon sent in. Usually a setup sweeper.
That's why it was banned.
If it was a benefit to stall, it would be here forever. But it purely helped offense.
This is why Garganacl, Dondozo, and Goldengo will never be banned.
>dondonzo >seeing play >gholdengo >stall
you don't know what you're talking about
https://victoryroadvgc.com/pokemon-sword-shield-team-reports/ >50% of teams run Zacian + Kyogre + Incineroar + Healthy Genie(s) >99% of teams runs at least two of the above
Yeah that's totally healthy bro
1 year ago
Anonymous
Still official and not your fake bullshit, sweaty :3
I don't think Smogon is wrong for their bans, I just think they're fighting a losing battle. GF doesn't give a frick about 6v6, the bans will look increasingly worse. The whole thing unironically screams sunk cost fallacy at this point. They don't even write descriptions for most pokemon anymore.
The worse type of cheese, dishonest and brainless.
I would be fine if they just banned Shed Tail with Cyclizar combo
>bro, just make a mon unable to use its signature move
fricking smogontard
>its signature move
moron. Orthworm isn't OU or Ubers because of Shed Tail. It's the combination of Shed Tail and Regenerator.
>synergy is...LE BAD
typical omgon player
>get free sub on anything in your party with zero downside
Sneed
NTA but consider adapting
Dragapult is overused as shit already and runs infiltrator
Sound moves, hazards (which are everywhere), taunt, and just strong mons (which are also everywhere) shut this shit down
I love how everyone can complain about how CrAzY the power level is then also b***h that a shitmon gets free weak subs
And I get it passes those subs to something better, but they're not great subs
You shed tail to dragonite. You click dragon dance. I don't think there's anything that can get through a multiscale sub especially if you shed tail against something without sound or infiltration. Don't be dumb
So switch on the shed tail?
You can see what they are likely to pass to in preview and you should have an idea of what sweepers you need to cover anyway
You have to team-building and predict a little, the game can't just play itself
>bro just let me set up and sweep you bro
Sneed and Chuck
I'm literally saying "bro stop me from sweeping" and telling you how
The other consideration though is that Cyclizar gets respectable special attack, so it can fire of a Draco Meteor or Overheat using Choice Specs for something you switched in anticipating a physical Dragon Dance user, Knock Off to get rid of an item on the wall you were sending in, or U-Turn to scout and send out something other than what you predicted.
Draco Meteor on cyclizar is pretty niche. And anyway that's just like...the game. Both players make predictions based on the information you have, and there's not always a totally safe option. In the case of cyclizar though, there were a number of options nonetheless, so I think the ban is disappointing
Thus one should have gone to a suspect
I wouldn't exactly call a powerful Stab with the downside of needing to switch on a mon that loves to switch 'niche'.
I think the distinction in this case is that while predicting a Shed Tail and getting hit with a Knock Off, Rapid Spin, U-Turn, or Draco Meteor instead when you switch isn't too bad, predicting any of those others and them using Shed Tail means they've got a powerful set up sweeper who will get at least one turn for free.
And if you do predict the switch and send out a counter? They can hit your counter for some chip damage as you burn the sub, and then just switch out their setup sweeper for later. And Cyclizar is back to 83% thanks to Regenerator, meaning that as the game progresses, it can come back in, U-Turn or clear hazards, and attempt to do the same thing all over again.
And even if you take out Cyclizar, you still haven't actually dealt with the setup sweeper. You've simply made it harder for it to set up.
I don't think I'd ever want Draco Meteor over knock off, u-turn, or spin, but actually the rest is fair enough. If it didn't have either rapid spin or knock off it would be way more manageable but I see what you mean about its kit
Draco meteor + scarf is perfect to frick over other Cyclizars, it's a personal favorite
>So switch on the shed tail?
Anon, why do you think U-Turn and its variants have been such historically good moves?
It's because switching has the highest priority. Meaning that if you click a pivot move and your opponent switches, you can just go right into a counter to what they switched into in a single turn. This is known as "momentum".
The same applies to Shed Tail, but you also get a substitute in addition to the momentum.
Switching on the Shed Tail just means that your opponent can choose which Shed Tail recipient to go into to counter your counter.
>You can see what they are likely to pass to in preview
On a bad team, yes. A good team built around Shed Tail will have multiple recipients.
Bans are made with good players in mind.
>switch to Dnite counter
>opponant tail shed on your counter's counter
>do not switch to Dnite counter
>opponant gets to easily set up with Dnite and wins the game
Do you fricking understand now?
Uh...just have coverage to check the "counter" to your counter. Sounds like a MASSIVE skill issue, sweetie...
>just have coverage to counter 3 other Pokémon on one Pokémon bro (not counting Grimmsnarl)
Yes. Maybe the skill issue was even bigger than I thought if you think that's unreasonable...poor bab 🙁
>switch to your dragonite counter
>they don't switch to dragonite because they get to see what you switched to first
based moron
By forcing them to pass to something suboptimal you get chip on two mons, and have a good chance to stop the sweep
If their team is just sweepers and cyclizar, and for some reason that works then that's on you, not shed tail
I'm stoked to play cyclizar lugia
>cyclizar lugia
How do you stop it?
Literally anything, honestly. Lugia has been dead weight for nearly a decade now, and when it comes back in the inevitable DLC legendary portals next year it’s not even going to have toxic anymore. Remember this thing has 90/90 offenses in a tier where Arceus, the XYZ legends, Necrozma, Calyrex, and now Miraidon are running around.
Switch to multi hit moves.
Baxcalibur can dance and kill with ice spear using loaded dice.
What about mimikyu
>I love how everyone can complain about how CrAzY the power level is then also b***h that a shitmon gets free weak subs
IMO it's not the shitmon's fault here, it's really how it just enables too much of a favorable position. Usually a set-up sweeper who gets a free turn if you let this happens
>Just use taunt bro
>Vs a pokemon faster than everything in the tier except meow, pult, chien that frequently runs choice scarf anyway
Also if you switch pult or a whirlwind user in on reaction they can shed to Hatterene to reflect the whirlwind and tera so your ghost move does nothing and beat your ass
>I love how everyone can complain about how CrAzY the power level is then also b***h that a shitmon gets free weak subs
But it's not the shitmon getting a free weak sub. It's the next mon you send in getting the sub.
And a sub is a sub. Even if the sub only had 1 HP, it's still withstanding one hit for free. Nobody is claiming that Cyclizar is broken because it's making the other mon completely invincible. But it gives a free turn to the next mon sent in. Usually a setup sweeper.
You could say to use Taunt, but Cyclizar is fast.
You could say to use hazards, but setup sweepers are just as strong at low HP as they are at max HP.
You could say to use Dragapult, but taking a turn to switch in is still giving a free turn to the opponent.
You could say to use sound moves, but that means either switching on or using a full team of mons with sound moves.
Shed Tail just further enables the crazy power level.
>But it gives a free turn to the next mon sent in. Usually a setup sweeper.
That's why it was banned.
If it was a benefit to stall, it would be here forever. But it purely helped offense.
This is why Garganacl, Dondozo, and Goldengo will never be banned.
shed tail -> priority screens grimmsnarl -> parting shot into sweeper is the most braindead shit ever
>m-maybe if i talk like them they won't clock me
nice try troony but you don't pass
So what's your argument?
You posted something related to Smogon and then sperg out and hurl insults when you're put in your place
It's not bad. It's good. That's why it is an Uber.
post elo.
Why are you going “muh omgon muh smogon tard” when smogon did the opposite of what that “smogontard” is saying? They kept the sinergy, didn’t separate mon from sig move.
And why does no one in the replies to your post acknowledge this?
This board is filled with morons, jesus christ. I reckon comp-related threads ironically bring the morons in and coomer threads have higher IQ posters
>It's the combination of Shed Tail and Regenerator
And yet all the recover/slack off regenerators are fine?
It really makes you think.
Yeah because you don't get a litterally free sub+pivot to setup anything you want with little threat to you
moronic vgcuck
>when this thing gets to be one of the best support pokémon while meganium is still shit
This franchise sucks ass and the mindless sheep who only care about popular Pokémon can suck my ass.
>Stop liking things because... Just stop ok?
Stop liking Meganium, because uhh, it's unpopular
>MUH UGLY DEXCUT SHITMON!
noboddy care homosexual
Imagine thinking Meganium is ugly.
Cyclizar would be Starmie 2.0 if not for Shed Tail.
Water/Psychic is a lot better offensively though
I was hoping that Shed Tail would be banned instead of Cyclizar, because a Shift Gear set in lower tiers sounds like fun.
Play custom game or AG that way you dont have to worry about rulesets and clauses
Shed Tail + Regenerator is too strong of a combo in 6v6 singles. And top of that Cyclizar has good utility in Rapid Spin, Knock Off, and U-turn.
Yet Tropius doesn't get jack shit. You know, there must be a bias against dinosaur Pokémon.
The Infiltrator ability exists for a reason lol
Infiltrator is extremely situational and the only viable Pokemon that has it is Dragapult.
So uh...just use Dragapult, chud...what are you, bad or something?
>what are you, bad or something?
You clearly are. If you were good, your ability to counter with dragapult would have made other people realize this combo wasn't broken. But I guess your inability to sway anyone means that you and your strategy aren't reliable.
Sounds like a skill issue for you!
>Anti meta tech is extremely situational
Is Defog also extremely situational?
LMFAO
Why do people try and play 6v6 when GF clearly doesn't attempt to balance the game for 6v6
Probably because it's the format most of the games use, and the one the anime uses for "top-level battles". It's what people are accustomed to.
>Entire game outside of occasional double/triple/rotation is 6v6 singles
>"NOOO GF NEVER INTENDED YOU TO PLAY THAT YOU SHOULD BE PLAYING VGC EXCLUSIVELY"
lmao
>GF never intended you to play that
who are you quoting.
I said the game isn't balanced for 6v6. Because it clearly isn't. The game also let's you dump potions, X items and other moronic game breaking shit during single player. Why aren't you playing 6v6 with X items.
The game clearly isn't balanced for vgc either seeing how everyone runs the same mons there, member Landorus + Incineroar?
>the existence of a meta means the game is inbalanced
oh you are one of those people
When the meta results in only ~10 Pokémon being used yeah
literally 50+ pokemon in the last top 32
>hey, maybe if certain Pokemon get upwards of 90% usage, that's a sign of poor balance
>OH SO YOU THINK A META SHOULDN'T EXIST AT ALL, HUH?!
>if certain Pokemon get upwards of 90% usage, that's a sign of poor balance
Yeah! That's why Lando keeps being banned to Ubers!
moron.
>lando
>90% usage
you don't know what you're talking about
>dondonzo
>seeing play
>gholdengo
>stall
you don't know what you're talking about
https://victoryroadvgc.com/pokemon-sword-shield-team-reports/
>50% of teams run Zacian + Kyogre + Incineroar + Healthy Genie(s)
>99% of teams runs at least two of the above
Yeah that's totally healthy bro
Still official and not your fake bullshit, sweaty :3
>GF clearly doesn't attempt to balance the game
Correct.
The real game doesn't use fake mechanics like sleep clause and randomly ban shitmons
Sleep clause is good, moron
What's next are you going to defend evasion?
Yes, maybe try bringing moves that cannot miss instead of only going for max power, homosexual.
>bro just bring this absolute shit tier move that will never be useful outside of when I bring my OP garbage
Unironically have a nice day
heavy slam is good
Ah, yeah, just like all the VGC players do, right?
Why did they make heavy duty boots and keep making hazard clearing moves then. Nobody uses hazards in vgc or 3v3
Because they think it’s cool and it fills a niche.
why did Magic print a card where you discard your hand for nothing
>WHAT? MY troony SEA URCHIN CAN'T BREAK THE SUB? BAN BAN BAN BAN!
>one of my favorite new pokemon is an uber
I love having good taste!
singles is truly a pathetic format
3v3 singles doesn't have this issue because it's not a format based around stall, meme rocks and constant switching
This.
No idea how people find the nonstop switching fun at all. It’s moronic.
>muh holocaust meta
>CHADzar is Ubers
Heath was right, this thing is a total beast and was probably a legend in the past.
omgon just needs to allow complex bans because this is ridiculous
Only Cyclizar has the tools to abuse Shed Tail. It's perfectly balanced on Orthworm.
They can't do that, remember? It would make them look too autistic!
Psycho lizard
Qu’est-ce que c’est?
CUTE
I don't think Smogon is wrong for their bans, I just think they're fighting a losing battle. GF doesn't give a frick about 6v6, the bans will look increasingly worse. The whole thing unironically screams sunk cost fallacy at this point. They don't even write descriptions for most pokemon anymore.
>Cyclizar is Uber
Still useless in Raids though?
made up format please understand
seeing vgcucks cope always puts a smile on my face
more like shitizard is Ubereats paki delivery boy's mount of choice.
I think they will quickly find that it breaks Ubers too.
You lost, shedtail abusers.