Yeah yanks are almost all terrible at FM programming.
Both snes and genesis audio chips depend on the skill of the musician to not sound like shit.
The Genesis requires a FM synth master, and snes requires someone with access to the best audio samples and capacity of using em well, to not mention actually using the CPU for improving the overall music etc..
If you don't, genesis turns into a grindsaw and snes into a cheap kids toy.
>Both snes and genesis audio chips depend on the skill of the musician to not sound like shit.
Very much so, And with the SNES it's more down to what soundfont the writer uses. There's some amazing sounds on the snes that still hold up, but then you have capcom games like mega man x and final fight that have some of the worst sounding "guitars" in existence.
one pin for each channel, they output voltage relative to ground that needs to be fed through opamps and other stuff before actually going to the speakers
(i think)
I was listening to the OPNA version of this soundtrack this morning and it's great. Ryu Umemoto was a master of FM synthesis and he used those sounds well after the days of sound chips.
I see the superiority of the Genesis soundchip touted all the fucking time over the SNES chip. Why though? I understand that from a hardware perspective, it was a more powerful and versatile chip, but in practice, 90% of composers for the Genesis seemed to have no fucking clue how to work with the thing and produced some of the most tinny sounding farty OSTs and sound effects I've ever heard. There are exceptions, obviously, and a select handful of composers could produce absolute bangers but it doesn't really matter how much better your chip is on paper if most of the system's library can't demonstrate that. SNES chip may have been weaker but across the SNES library, there was a lot more consistently good tracks.
This has that same tinny graininess to it though, like it's being played full blast through a cheap pair of early '90s headphones from 5 feet away. It sounds degraded. It's music that SHOULD be good but it comes out sounding like shit because somebody didn't know how to use the soundchip to actually play it.
Compare that to something like a MMX3 track with a similar vibe.
One could argue that it sounds a little flat and some of the instruments sound hollow but it doesn't have that same degraded overtuned quality to it. It doesn't actively grate on the ears.
That's because you can't do any soundmixing on a genesis, I think there's just a low pass filter that can't be adjusted, and you can pan the sound in a binary fashion which just determines which speaker(s) plays the sound.
While on the SNES you can run the samples through whatever filters you want before putting it on a rom.
Essentially the Genesis can function as a standalone instrument, while the SNES can't.
>Why though?
A counter-response to when the Internet was still dominated mainly by Nintendo fans and everyone including early e-celebs were bing bing wahooing them up the ass. It was hard to discuss anything about Sega (and others too like the PS1 to a current extent) without some retarded mouthbreather shitting up a topic with "ROFLMAO SEGA ONLY HAD THREE GOOD GAMES! SONIC 1, 2, AND 3! AND IT HAD FART MUSIC LOOOOL!" and derailed the topic.
>Why though?
A counter-response to when the Internet was still dominated mainly by Nintendo fans and everyone including early e-celebs were bing bing wahooing them up the ass. It was hard to discuss anything about Sega (and others too like the PS1 to a current extent) without some retarded mouthbreather shitting up a topic with "ROFLMAO SEGA ONLY HAD THREE GOOD GAMES! SONIC 1, 2, AND 3! AND IT HAD FART MUSIC LOOOOL!" and derailed the topic.
SNES was relatively newer technology, abandoning PSG sound from the NES using what's closest to modern sound hardware, but Genesis used legacy sound hardware combining both PSG and FM Synthesis as best it could. SNES wasn't "weaker", it was just too different from what most were used to that arcade games of previous years and microcomputers already had at the time, so they had more time to be familiar with those whereas SNES was more specialized.
Because you need to program the genesis soundchip to get anything out of it, while the SNES sound chip is just a 8 channel sampler... well technically it's 32 channel but hardly anyone used it that way.
As I said, not on real hardware. Many ym2612 instruments have strong high frequency components which sound terrible without low pass filtering. Some soundtracks can literally make your ears bleed without the proper filtering.
Eh, that's just GEMS.
Here's the same track arranged by someone with the benefit of hindsight and knowledge of what he's doing:
Here's the same guy demonstrating how a more classic Sonic track could have sounded like if Japanese composers had as shit documentation and where forded to use GEMS:
Honestly, 99% of the argument comes from the fact the SNES had an objectively TERRIBLE sound chip. And it was on purpose. The system was DESIGNED for the CD add-on, which fell through.
A far better comparison was the PCE, which also had a PSG, but it was a lot fancier and the system had CD quality audio by the time the mega drive launched, so it completely shit over everything else. Even then, the PSG was more capable than Nintendo's dogshit Sony turd.
Both snes and genesis audio chips depend on the skill of the musician to not sound like shit.
The Genesis requires a FM synth master, and snes requires someone with access to the best audio samples and capacity of using em well, to not mention actually using the CPU for improving the overall music etc..
If you don't, genesis turns into a grindsaw and snes into a cheap kids toy.
>I see the superiority of the Genesis soundchip touted all the fucking time over the SNES chip. Why though? I understand that from a hardware perspective
Do you? The SNES doesn't produce any sounds, it's just a sampler using single cycle waveforms. The Mega Drive on the other hand is an actual subtractive synth with frequency modulation (inputting a sound wave into another sound wave to create something new). The only thing that really lets the YM2612 down is that the synth only uses sinewave. Talk about gimping the massive potential your console synthesizer. Still, it could have gone further if it allowed you to input your own single cycle waveforms into the frequency output. If it had all of this as well as 16 channels, pass filters, resonance, delay, reverb and distortion, you would have had a massive global music scene being built around this alone. All this wasted potential sums up Sega in a nutshell, in that they knew how to build, but didn't know how to create with it, wasting resources that could have been spent elsewhere.
Someone help me out, there was a youtube video of a song that sounded like it came straight from MegaMan Battle Network but it was an original song, anyone know what I'm talking about? It was several years old and had like 1-2 million views.
No, most chips have a distinct sound, if you listen enough you learn to spot the difference. Same as synthesizers. Like how you can easily distinguish DX7 from Korg MS-20 or Pro One.
I could've worded it better tbh, but I mean with soundchips I wouldn't be able to really tell a difference between say, Capcom's chip compared to NeoGeo o,o;
Yet i'm trying to follow whats going on in the thread and feeling like an idiot.
you can download this emulator and play around it with yourself, it's essentially the same soundchip only more powerful, there's also a giant pack of mostly shitty preset instruments too on the site
Thanks! I used to use things like MTV Music Generator on Ps1 but didn't really try making my own stuff. Yet nearly everyday i'm finding new things to listen to. Someone posted Zexon earlier, which was neat.
The best way to see the difference is to compare home and arcade versions of a soundtrack. Everything you're talking about is FM synth, so the differences aren't going to be that pronounced on arcade chips, which were pretty analogous. Take Galaxy Force 2 posted earlier, that had a Mega Drive release.
?t=46
It's a much weaker soundtrack, because the MD had a cheaper soundchip. Still sounds good, but not as good.
I have Darius on SNES and G on Ps1, i've heard the arcade one a bunch. I've heard absolute bangers on Genesis like Metal Squad, figured if i'm going to learn it would be easier with shumps.
1. there's documentation online
2. hardly anyone knew how to program the chip back then, the DX7 is essentially a beefier version of the chip, and most musicians that used that thing used presets sold in Atari 2600 game sized cartridges or followed instructions that were provided in music magazines
There's quite a few PC88-98 videos out now thanks to all the translators, how Japan managed to get so much kino out of those things is amazing imo. Literally 40 years ago putting that much on a floppy, yet current gen with new tech struggles to come out with something memorable.
Same. Outside of my favorites I barely listen to modern 2hu, unless it's remixed like Chaosangel used to do.
No, most chips have a distinct sound, if you listen enough you learn to spot the difference. Same as synthesizers. Like how you can easily distinguish DX7 from Korg MS-20 or Pro One.
Glad I came to the thread I had gone into it thinking i'd be rejected for not knowing this yet claiming to like musicvideo games.
I raise you https://youtu.be/ZqJQxWgOjJo?t=935
That's not the VRC6.
Both are good but most people who use VRC6 in their chiptune music dont use it to its full potential
VRC7
>american composer
>BWAAAAAANG
Never played, but this is definitely a banger OST though. I need to check it out someday.
Reminder that the third volume of this amazing compilation series "FM Vertex" has just been released. Grab yourself a copy.
https://vgmdb.net/album/126198
Artists on vol 3 are:
Kazuko -karu.- Umino,
Kenichi Arakawa,
Takayuki -J99- Aihara,
Junko Ozawa,
Hiroto Sasaki,
Hikoshi Hashimoto,
Hiroki Kikuta,
Katsuhiro Hayashi,
Jake 'virt' Kaufman,
Hiroshi -Hiro- Kawaguchi,
Yasuhisa -Yack.- Watanabe,
Keishi Yonao
Yeah yanks are almost all terrible at FM programming.
>Both snes and genesis audio chips depend on the skill of the musician to not sound like shit.
Very much so, And with the SNES it's more down to what soundfont the writer uses. There's some amazing sounds on the snes that still hold up, but then you have capcom games like mega man x and final fight that have some of the worst sounding "guitars" in existence.
*even more kino*
Bits? All I need is one.
Just looked at the datasheet, what do the two pins output give you? I'm too dumb to understand this
one pin for each channel, they output voltage relative to ground that needs to be fed through opamps and other stuff before actually going to the speakers
(i think)
Wait, so it's the sound wave? Either way I think I found a new hobby.
yeah, the sound wave is just speaker voltage varying over time.
audio DIY(both hardware and software) is a lot of fun anon, good luck.
Yes yes, quite good.
However
That IS pretty good anon, but with that said...
For me its
I was listening to the OPNA version of this soundtrack this morning and it's great. Ryu Umemoto was a master of FM synthesis and he used those sounds well after the days of sound chips.
Man what happened to Yamaha? they used to be top fucking tier, now... shit.
I have said this before and I will say it again.
I see the superiority of the Genesis soundchip touted all the fucking time over the SNES chip. Why though? I understand that from a hardware perspective, it was a more powerful and versatile chip, but in practice, 90% of composers for the Genesis seemed to have no fucking clue how to work with the thing and produced some of the most tinny sounding farty OSTs and sound effects I've ever heard. There are exceptions, obviously, and a select handful of composers could produce absolute bangers but it doesn't really matter how much better your chip is on paper if most of the system's library can't demonstrate that. SNES chip may have been weaker but across the SNES library, there was a lot more consistently good tracks.
This has that same tinny graininess to it though, like it's being played full blast through a cheap pair of early '90s headphones from 5 feet away. It sounds degraded. It's music that SHOULD be good but it comes out sounding like shit because somebody didn't know how to use the soundchip to actually play it.
Compare that to something like a MMX3 track with a similar vibe.
One could argue that it sounds a little flat and some of the instruments sound hollow but it doesn't have that same degraded overtuned quality to it. It doesn't actively grate on the ears.
>degraded quality
Okay, how about something like
or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEKqiZxssjE
That's because you can't do any soundmixing on a genesis, I think there's just a low pass filter that can't be adjusted, and you can pan the sound in a binary fashion which just determines which speaker(s) plays the sound.
While on the SNES you can run the samples through whatever filters you want before putting it on a rom.
Essentially the Genesis can function as a standalone instrument, while the SNES can't.
>Why though?
A counter-response to when the Internet was still dominated mainly by Nintendo fans and everyone including early e-celebs were bing bing wahooing them up the ass. It was hard to discuss anything about Sega (and others too like the PS1 to a current extent) without some retarded mouthbreather shitting up a topic with "ROFLMAO SEGA ONLY HAD THREE GOOD GAMES! SONIC 1, 2, AND 3! AND IT HAD FART MUSIC LOOOOL!" and derailed the topic.
So it's basically cope
SNES was relatively newer technology, abandoning PSG sound from the NES using what's closest to modern sound hardware, but Genesis used legacy sound hardware combining both PSG and FM Synthesis as best it could. SNES wasn't "weaker", it was just too different from what most were used to that arcade games of previous years and microcomputers already had at the time, so they had more time to be familiar with those whereas SNES was more specialized.
Because you need to program the genesis soundchip to get anything out of it, while the SNES sound chip is just a 8 channel sampler... well technically it's 32 channel but hardly anyone used it that way.
>tinny sounding farty
Myth caused by bad emulation. On the real hardware these mythical "farts" don't exist.
>caused by emulation
I don't think so, some soundtracks are quite farty
As I said, not on real hardware. Many ym2612 instruments have strong high frequency components which sound terrible without low pass filtering. Some soundtracks can literally make your ears bleed without the proper filtering.
Eh, that's just GEMS.
Here's the same track arranged by someone with the benefit of hindsight and knowledge of what he's doing:
Here's the same guy demonstrating how a more classic Sonic track could have sounded like if Japanese composers had as shit documentation and where forded to use GEMS:
Original if you live under a rock:
FM synth had more soul.
Honestly, 99% of the argument comes from the fact the SNES had an objectively TERRIBLE sound chip. And it was on purpose. The system was DESIGNED for the CD add-on, which fell through.
A far better comparison was the PCE, which also had a PSG, but it was a lot fancier and the system had CD quality audio by the time the mega drive launched, so it completely shit over everything else. Even then, the PSG was more capable than Nintendo's dogshit Sony turd.
Both snes and genesis audio chips depend on the skill of the musician to not sound like shit.
The Genesis requires a FM synth master, and snes requires someone with access to the best audio samples and capacity of using em well, to not mention actually using the CPU for improving the overall music etc..
If you don't, genesis turns into a grindsaw and snes into a cheap kids toy.
>I see the superiority of the Genesis soundchip touted all the fucking time over the SNES chip. Why though? I understand that from a hardware perspective
Do you? The SNES doesn't produce any sounds, it's just a sampler using single cycle waveforms. The Mega Drive on the other hand is an actual subtractive synth with frequency modulation (inputting a sound wave into another sound wave to create something new). The only thing that really lets the YM2612 down is that the synth only uses sinewave. Talk about gimping the massive potential your console synthesizer. Still, it could have gone further if it allowed you to input your own single cycle waveforms into the frequency output. If it had all of this as well as 16 channels, pass filters, resonance, delay, reverb and distortion, you would have had a massive global music scene being built around this alone. All this wasted potential sums up Sega in a nutshell, in that they knew how to build, but didn't know how to create with it, wasting resources that could have been spent elsewhere.
Lol the Genesis can't do Final Fa...
Someone help me out, there was a youtube video of a song that sounded like it came straight from MegaMan Battle Network but it was an original song, anyone know what I'm talking about? It was several years old and had like 1-2 million views.
I'm pretty sure you're talking about artificial intelligence bomb but that has nothing to do with fm synth and it doesn't sound like mmbn at all
Fuck me, thank you.
bruh
>People actually think she's some clueless virgin
super-famicunts still btfo after all these years
recovery at this point seems implausible
i cannot fucking wait for that running shine FM video
Does someone need to be an Audiophile to understand this kinda stuff? Honest question.
to understand what?
no, audiophiles are consoomer retards.
No, most chips have a distinct sound, if you listen enough you learn to spot the difference. Same as synthesizers. Like how you can easily distinguish DX7 from Korg MS-20 or Pro One.
No, just someone who understands sound design. Unfortunately you've got to actually do it for it to click in your head.
how do these things make sound
tiny little gnomes inside the chip make the most awful grating noises known to man
Man, Disney had the worst gnomes.
I could've worded it better tbh, but I mean with soundchips I wouldn't be able to really tell a difference between say, Capcom's chip compared to NeoGeo o,o;
Yet i'm trying to follow whats going on in the thread and feeling like an idiot.
https://asb2m10.github.io/dexed/
you can download this emulator and play around it with yourself, it's essentially the same soundchip only more powerful, there's also a giant pack of mostly shitty preset instruments too on the site
Thanks! I used to use things like MTV Music Generator on Ps1 but didn't really try making my own stuff. Yet nearly everyday i'm finding new things to listen to. Someone posted Zexon earlier, which was neat.
The best way to see the difference is to compare home and arcade versions of a soundtrack. Everything you're talking about is FM synth, so the differences aren't going to be that pronounced on arcade chips, which were pretty analogous. Take Galaxy Force 2 posted earlier, that had a Mega Drive release.
?t=46
It's a much weaker soundtrack, because the MD had a cheaper soundchip. Still sounds good, but not as good.
I have Darius on SNES and G on Ps1, i've heard the arcade one a bunch. I've heard absolute bangers on Genesis like Metal Squad, figured if i'm going to learn it would be easier with shumps.
1. there's documentation online
2. hardly anyone knew how to program the chip back then, the DX7 is essentially a beefier version of the chip, and most musicians that used that thing used presets sold in Atari 2600 game sized cartridges or followed instructions that were provided in music magazines
>how do these things make sound
Specify and I'll try to answer your question as clearly as possible.
YM2151 + PCM is where it's at.
Move out of my way, bitlet fucking shits.
>he listens to music with double-digit bits
Sit down, pleb
Mario if he Brasil
There's quite a few PC88-98 videos out now thanks to all the translators, how Japan managed to get so much kino out of those things is amazing imo. Literally 40 years ago putting that much on a floppy, yet current gen with new tech struggles to come out with something memorable.
I honestly like the PC-98 Touhou FM sounds more than the modern OSTs.
Same. Outside of my favorites I barely listen to modern 2hu, unless it's remixed like Chaosangel used to do.
Glad I came to the thread I had gone into it thinking i'd be rejected for not knowing this yet claiming to like musicvideo games.
Based. This game's OST is my favourite amongst all Mega Drive OSYs:
YM2151 > YM2608 >>>>> YM2612
That isnt SID chip
Felt like I was listening to the Genesis with that one, granted using the ps4s pathetic earphones. :s