A fucking book of psychology of industrial design of 1989 explains the issue with modern fighting games.
modern fighting games are garbage deisigns
This phonograph "reads" a rock’s rough surface and transforms it into beautiful ambient music pic.twitter.com/PYDzYsWWf8— Surreal Videos (@SurrealVideos) March 3, 2023
i think you just suck ass my man
Except that there are no vestigial features in fighting games.
nitroplus/aquapazza tutorial is 40 minutes.
>No Thunderbokt Fantasy
I agree with
you should've said "most fighting games, including the one OP is crying about, don't have vestigial features"
have you played nitroplus?
I had to spam and spend like 3-4 special bars at the beggining of the match just to play normally, because they're just nuisances.
no, I don't really play anime fighters, and I'm really only assuming it is one because I've never heard of it. is it any good in spite of that?
It's just waifu fanservice pandering with e-bois, and overcomplex mechanics for no reason to be a kitchen sink.
All anime fighters are the same e-boi waifu BS garbage.
Just play EFZ memorial, at least that one doesn't devolve into kitchen sink designs.
Nitroplus is literally an eroge company, you fucking retards. Their fighting game is SUPPOSED to be pure fanservice.
Entire game of Street fighter 5, eveyrth8ing in it is an vestigal feature from Street fighter 2 and other fighting games from 30 years ago.
I dont think you understand what vestigal means.
It does not mean legacy design.
You don't like the genre if you think everything about it is unnecessary. It doesn't mean it's bad, it means you don't like it.
>names literally nothing
Combo inputs are vestigial features.
Character select is a vestigial feature
The correct way to perform a single backstep in Tekken is four sequential inputs
Literally just back, back
The korean backdash is not "multiple mechanics working together". It's an animation cancel that is strictly superior to backdash, by a wide margin. Nobody designing a new fighting game today would think the game would be more interesting if you made stepping backward "correctly" require four inputs. Yet this animation cancel is grandfathered into every single Tekken game for the sole reason that good players mastered it, and would feel that their effort and skill is wasted if a regular backdash was just as functional. It's the very definition of a vestigial feature.
Most competetive games and genres have features that were not originally intentionally added. They were discovered by good players and became part of the games' core mechanics because people liked the added depth.
If you remove KBD from Tekken the game becomes less competetively interesting, which T4 proved before they added it back in.
>uuuuhhh if I add a meme i win teh argy-mint!!
He's right, though
Thanks for your contribution
It's the very definition of fun alright
>"Cancel" implying theres more than one mechanic involved in achiving it.
no. walking back is just holding back. backdash is back back.
if you mean korean backdash thats a different can of worms and multiple mechanics working together.
people crying about srk inputs or, even better, quarter circles, is my favorite genre of music. it takes 15 minutes of practice to be able to always get a dp motion, especially with modern leniency, and yet they keep outing themselves as toddlers who throw a tantrum when they can't do something literally first try.
i'm sure its very easy to press the "R" button on a phone as well, but that's not the argument. the argument is why are these inputs still implemented into every game?
Risk / reward. Doing a complicated input gives you a more powerful move than just pressing an attack button on its own, but you might mess up the sequence and it leaves your fingers unable to do other inputs. Almost every other game genre out there has some type of risk / reward structure (eg. powerful spell has a high chance of failing, powerful guns having smaller amount of ammo, powerful soldiers that require lots of resources), fighting games have powerful moves being tied to complicated inputs as their balancing mechanic.
I play Naraka and have never felt the need for inputs to be artificially complicated for the game to be fun. In fact, after they made certain previously un-queueable inputs queueable for more consistent execution, the game simply got better and less frustrating, allowing you to focus on fighting the enemy instead of fighting the controls. Advanced combos are still difficult to execute under pressure so there is room for skill advantage, but you still do every input for a reason and not just for the sake of having to input difficult secret code to unlock the permission to use a move. How about giving powerful moves more startup frames?
Forgot to add: Inputs being easier also means that the opponent does less mistakes, things are more intentional and less random. This creates more room for conditioning the enemy to do what you want, which feels more rewarding. A game where both players desperately try to execute their thing, make mistakes until one player accidentally wins, is not as satisfying as knowing that you made the right choices to outplay the opponent.
lol what is this trash
Why are 2d fighter players like this?
lol this floaty shit isnt a 3D fighter either.
I just looked it up. Literal chink shit. Have some standards goddamn.
coping chink. fuck outta here
I love naraka but inputs in fightinggames are not complicated its just you not similiar with it
Or you could do what Smash Bros does and balance moves by number of frames it takes for the move to happen and for the character to recover. I do understand the concept behind more complex moves being stronger if executed, but all it really does is limit the number of people willing to get into fighting games. The reality is that the process of committing inputs to muscle memory is not fun and games are supposed to be fun.
It is a fun process and turning actual fighting games into smash is a dogshit idea.
Smash also has some of the most backwards retarded inputs for shit with its tilt attacks. Even worse when some retard tells you to bind those on an analog stick like some subhuman.
Smash is literally only a thing because of the franchises involved.
I’m not even saying copy Smash’s inputs, I’m just saying that bloated move lists with 3-5 inputs for most attacks is going to keep fighting game audiences small compared to what they could be.
Ah, the Ganker version of “educate urself”
You don’t have to balance it that way. You can change the hitstun or damage values even to accommodate simpler inputs. But why are you even talking about Hadouken when it isn’t a complex move?
You do understand that frames are used in fighting games right?
Like surely you're not this retarded right?
I do know this. What I am saying is put the balancing more on frame data, damage, or hitstun values and less on finger pretzels.
Are you genuinely this retarded anon? Have you fucking even seen a fighting game patch note?
Yes. For the final time, I am saying to ditch 4+ input attacks and make them 3 or less while focusing the balancing around those other values instead of claiming that the moves are balanced around the complexity of the input. You are literally too seething with retard rage to understand me apparently.
NTA but I think what he's saying is that frame data balanced on inputs is in place for a reason (so the faster frame moves take more effort, otherwise people would be spamming booms and flash kicks ala SFIV 3DS). You make it sound like you believe frame data balance doesn't exist in input-heavy games when that is far from the truth.
and I'm saying that you're retarded and full of shit.
I wrote shoryuken, retard. How would changing hitstun or damage change how this move that is strictly for reversals and anti airs make a difference?
I aborted the sentence in the middle and now its fucked.
I mean how would changing the hitstun or damage make a meaningful difference?
Ignore him he’s not comprehending that damage, hitstun, framedata and inputs are all difficulty valves used already to balance moves.
And you aren’t getting that I am attacking this mentality here
that we need inputs to be complex to balance moves.
bro, I mastered those inputs when I was 8 years old. They ar not difficult or complex at all. Are you saying you have worse motorics than an 8-year old?
I’m saying adults (the majority of gamers) don’t have the time to do what they did at 8 years old. Grinding move lists is not fun when there are other games you could play that don’t require spending dozens of hours learning just to not get embarrassed in an online match.
Complexity is a perfectly fine balance tool. If you don’t have complexity you wind up with brawl metaknight where superior frame data just rules unopposed.
Don't forget that Brawl Metaknight didn't have to play the same game every other character did on top of having win buttons.
And then he got rebalanced to where it’s not a problem. It didn’t take adding steps to perform his moves to do that.
My bad, I glossed over shoryuken. Shoryuken isn’t a complicated move either. My gripe is with moves that need many button and directional inputs to work.
like fucking what
He's gonna name KOF inputs or some shit like Summon Suffering.
ah yes I bet raging storm would be just as iconic if it was a one button bind.
and clearly kof is ruined because one character out of 50 has such an input.
the vast majority of games released since sf4 don't have anything more complicated than a srk or half circle and have very lenient inputs. Weird stuff is Ivy from SC6 and maybe some tekken shit with just frames and some obscure anime fighters that 100 people play with pretzel motions.
the strictest shit I've run into outside of just frames were half circles back in Marvel 3 and only a couple of characters even used them.
Eliminating motion inputs destroys the depth of move lists that some characters enjoy (see DNF duel where everyone has the exact same short movelist) and removes the existence of charge characters completely.
Only thing I can think that you MIGHT be talking about would be inputting an ultra in sf4, needed to do a motion input plus hitting three separate punch buttons.
But anon, you know on a controller you can just press the LB button right? LB was bound to be all three punches so that controllerp layers can easily do ultras and EX moves.
>balance moves by number of frames it takes for the move to happen and for the character to recover.
I genuinely am unsure if people posting in these threads are retarded or pretending to be.
>nerf shoryuken startup to make up for it being a one button bind
>now shoryuken cant be used as a reversal anymore
they actually did that with Ed in SFV too. he has babby inputs where PPP triggers his ex shoryuken equivalent. because capcom thought thats ridiculous they made the startup slower.
now you can option select Ed on wakeup with a jab. if he blocks on wakeup or presses a button he has to hold your jab. if he presses his ex upper reversal your jab recovers fast enough so that you can block the ex upper coming out and he will eat shit.
you now created a move that is functionally very different from another by simply changing the framedata to adjust for the input difference.
Yea fuck right off. Smash is bottom of the barrel garbage made for brain dead kids.
that'd be SFV and licensed anime fighters like P4A and shit. Melee and the new Smash are scraping the bottom of the barrel, but aren't the bottom themselves.
In terms of fighting game balance, SMash is absolutely at the bottom of the barrel.
You can't use smash at all when disguising balance. That game is horribly unbalance.
Ok but why? When you have games that require so much to do something like move linking you have a problem. Fighting games ask too much for simplistic things that shouldn't require so much and they always hide it under this "balance, risk/reward" bs.
Because it's fun. It's satisfying to pull these moves off in a match and reap the rewards of your effort. If you don't find it fun go play something else instead of trying sand down a genre that's been refined for years.
Or better get go play on of the multitude of fighters that appeals to your sensibilities like Granblue Versus, Strive, or SamSho.
>Yea fuck right off. Smash is bottom of the barrel garbage made for brain dead kids.
You really believe inputs are balanced around casual players dropping them in a panic? The only people that play these games are fans.
pro players drop long strings too. you dont like fighting games, thats fine. stick to smash bros. why do you insist the entire genre be destroyed to cater to no skill "people" like yourself?
I can tell you're a consolefag. The kind of cunt to play an fps with a gamepad and a built-in aimbot.
the more solid and probably more honest answer is "because that's simply the way it is and it doesn't really need to be defended", but the more satisfying answer is that in the case of srk, it makes it harder to always anti air on reaction due to both the difficulty as well as the additional 2-3 frames due to input, and for all motion inputs an additional benefit is that you can have 2-3 or even up to 6 versions of a move, speaking for conventional 2D fighters at least. my personal answer is that it's just more fun, I think everyone would sacrifice a little bit of ergonomics for a cooler car that's more fun to drive.
This is a post from someone who has never been flash kicked in their 1 frame gap and it shows.
>why are these inputs still implemented into every game?
Same reason you're not given the best armor and weapon at the beginning in any RPG but because the improvement in fighting games is player-side instead of character side like in any other game these days, people bitch because they're lazy.
The others answered pretty well but one of the main reasons why you can't just press A and do the super-duper mega Kamehameha is that it trivializes the game.
Fighters are games about learning to fight, they're not adventure games or role playing games. The core of the game is the fighting, that's why they're called fighting games.
If you press one button and you frag the other dude, what has been achieved? why are you playing games to begin with? you're playing games to overcome obstacles and thus achieve "fun" in your brain.
If there are no obstacles, you just drop the game and go do something else. Seriously, you never asked yourself these questions? what would happen if in MMOS you were just given all the best gear, in FPS games everybody just died when you started the match, in sports games you just won the match after pressing play?
The point of RPGs/MMORPGs is that you go on an adventure with others and improve your character.
The point of a racing game is that you are first to cross the finish line.
The point of a FPS game is that you eliminate the opposing team/players.
The point of fighting games and why they still exist is that you improve your skill set and then measure your skill against other players.
In this case those inputs are a barrier to entry that after you overcome stops being a consideration. If you play an old RPG and have to learn your way around the shitty interface that's an initial hurdle, but after it's done you never consider it again unless it's in retrospect.
I hate to bring up smash since it's a fairly different game but easy inputs, or even one button inputs, don't end up instantly fragging the opponent as there's still other considerations; like positioning, start/end lag, risk/reward, etc. which are all generally considered more important to the actual fight than practicing your move inputs for consistency. There's also still practicing combos for consistency, so that element doesn't vanish either, just the barrier to entry of actually being able to perform your base abilities.
>those inputs are a barrier to entry that after you overcome stops being a consideration
That's the game though. It's not a "barrier to entry", it's just the game.
I don't think the people who come up with this type of suggestion actually want to play fighting games, they just want something else that i can't begin to imagine because i can't read their minds.
Fighting games are fighting games because of the complex inputs and you never fully master any character so you keep practicing new moves and combos, which is basically the game. You develop a style and are known for that guy who can drop the hard combo or that guy who is great at something else. Saying "it's just a barrier you get over and then it doesn't matter" is. . a puerile comment. Of course it matters, you're learning to play a game just like you're learning to ride a bike. Ridiculous.
Smash is a party game, made to be easy to pick up and play. Making all games like smash isn't a solution, nor is it a solution to water down complex games in order to appeal to people who fundamentally do not want to play fighting games, no matter how cool you make them look, how sexy you make the female characters look, how great the stages are, etc. They don't want to do the core thing when it comes to fighting games, and that is learning and practice.
tl;dr you're asking to destroy a genre because reasons.
you shouldnt bring up smash because it just makes you sound retarded.
yeah other aspects of the game would work without motion inputs. we know. actual fighting games (so not smash) without motions have been done. but they are shit and offer less than fighting games with motions.
they add the kind of flavor that doesnt exist without them. guile is a distinct character just like ryu is just like zangief is. ryu and guile are so different despite both having the same tools on paper more or less. but the difference in motions makes them completely unique to each other.
you are asking for less flavor than what a fucking SNES game offered.
also I have to say that every smash character having the same input binds is fucking boring and its a lesser game because of that.
>The goal is to learn fighting, not fighting itself.
I had more fun mashing buttons for moves on the 3ds version of SF than I did with my arcadestick autistically learning all the moves.
Anon, if you want a game to be about learning to fight, you don't need to actually fight anyone. Just have a training mode where you learn all the moves, and once you're done, you can move on to the next game.
If you actually want to fight other players, having elaborate inputs to do a single thing just gets in the way. Like, imagine having to manually reload in an fps. That would be cool for Gankertards, but not for people who just want to play an FPS.
>Having button inputs just gets in the way of the cinematics
I didn't say I wanted the cinematics. I said that I liked leveraging a move to fight the enemy, not to be an autist mashing buttons to get that same move out.
I would be okay with pressing single buttons for a simple moves. It's not about flashy moves. It's about not having to be a concerto pianist to do something to begin with. Then it just becomes about who can be the best spastic in the game. Look at tekken. High level play is just players spasming all over the field to not get hit. If you'd have had a simple back- or frontstep button, you could just press it and not break your wrists in the process.
Thats the end result of arguments like yours. Just cutting to chase where it gets exposed for how flawed it is.
They are fun to do. I enjoy doing them.
Because they are a fun skill barrier, that opens the door to unique player interactions moreso than a single timed button prompt.
Why can't people who want games to be more like movies just drop gaming entirely and get into movies.
I've put hundreds of hours into fighting games. I still can't do srk or even a fireball with 100% accuracy all the time.
>I've put hundreds of hours into fighting games. I still can't do srk or even a fireball with 100% accuracy all the time.
something is wrong with your brain if that's the case
if there's nothing wrong with your hands then you must be way overthinking it. steering a car is harder than Street Fighter combos.
that is truly embarrassing
If u use your brain good fighting games are hard to understand
Stop playing shits like nrs games tekken kof arcsys games these shits made for ppl who cant play good fightinggames
there are no good fighting games. if you play this genre youre just too retarded to play anything else.
what games do you play
>noooo we need to make every feature as simple as possible so that every mouthbreathing retard can use it
phone design has ruined an era
What's funny is that the simpler they make it, the harder they'll get beat down.
Everything has to be for everyone, besides the people that actually built it up, you fucking BIGOT. Having a variety of genres and styles for a myriad of tastes just isn't INCLUSIVE enough.
If guys like you put even half the effort into getting good fundamentals with only normal attacks, as you do bitching and whining and snivelling about input schemes, you'd all be unbeatable motherfuckers to 80% of other people who play.
Instead you cry, lose, cry, lose more, cry even more, then come on here crying.
At this point I think every
>wow fighting games bad
thread is just some retard who plays fighting games trying to stir the pot. No one is trying to convince retards to like fighting games. If you try one communities will do all they can to help you. The meme of "accessibility" has been played too hard.
At best you can look at old school GG with 6 different bnbs for midscreen due to individual character gravity values but any fighting game made since like 2009 is easy enough. The term 09ers exists for a reason.
u can talk shit all you want but when youre looking at the move list and it says do K+P its retarded. just say press triangle+square.
This I literally don't know what buttons are being asked so I just quit. Clearly they don't want me to play
hows life with low iq
>It's another "OP doesn't play fighting games" thread
You're just thinking of anime games, which are almost always bloated mechanically.
The problem nowadays is that devs have no idea how to balance tbe skill floor and ceiling. The floor should be as low as possible while the ceiling should be as high, too many games fumble this by focusing only in the floor and not the ceiling.
competent naoto players make me want to fucking kill myself
You can make the most braindead game of all time and people that don't play fighting games will still complain about it.
you can make a fighting game with only one button and people will still complain about it
And they did, too.
Because games arent meant to be played at high levels you are supposed to just mash buttons with your friends while eating pizza. These giganerds take everything too far and ruin a good time.
Then play with your friends
The problem is no matter how low the skill floor is, scrubs will still get beaten and expect the skill ceiling to drop to their level. There is a reason why so many modern games have shit like autoaim.
Lowering the skill floor is a complete fallacy because a casual won't even care to learn the game.
They don't say a game is too hard because the systems are complicated, they say it's too hard because they lose.
There's nothing more to it.
Designing easy mechanics and logical tutorials in an effort to draw in casuals is a waste of fucking time.
If you want a casual audience, you need casual modes that you can play casually, a 1v1 duel is always very in your face and requires full attention. Even if you have two complete retards just mashing buttons with no idea what they're doing, one of them will feel like he lost because it's his fault and he's not skilled.
SC3 is a perfect example of a casual friendly fighter. It's a fucking objectively shit game in terms of the fighting itself, but it's casual fun and it had an kinds of fun modes, beautiful presentation, character customization and a ton of cool characters and amazing little details like how you can hit different buttons on the text input screen and there'd be a slice effect across the tile from different directions according to which button you hit.
The only real bad input in modern games is the kbd in tekken, extremely high barrier for an essential basic function, sort of like if perfect HHS pianoing was mandatory for every character in SF.
korean backdash. it was an exploit that eventually became an official mechanic, if you want to retreat at any sort of viable speed you have to learn it or you'll just get mobbed.
i mean whats the input
B DB B in a rapid rhythm, doesn't sound to tough but you have to be very clean or you'll get failed QCF or BB inputs that will ruin it. This is something you need to do for 99% of the match.
Sounds like boring shit like most high level fighting games.
kbd isn't too bad. there just isn't much of a way to change simply because of how motion canceling in tekken works to begin with. i guess you could give more characters command dashes or something though
Bro it's just back then QCB. It's not fucking hard
it's basically an exploit that they just left in thoug, right? not really an 'intended input'
Why does Ganker constantly make threads about a genre they don't play complaining about how they need to implement changes which already have happened and then ignoring every example of such?
bitches gonna bitch
just say that dp motion too hard. no need to make a convoluted cope thread like this.
Alright. DP is hard to input on my controller, so I don't like it.
hold forward and then do a hadoken thats not hard on any controller tbh.
Best looking fighter but dear god what the fuck is this
hmm, it's....really easy compared to 90s kof combos
Trial 6 and onwards is bullshit
bro these are slow combos have you not ever played marvel vs capcom 2 or something
once you understand that kof reads inputs one motion for multiple moves these really aren't that hard such as at the end of trial 9 the 214 LK is also starting the 2141236 LK super so after the initial 214 LK you just roll the stick forwards 1236 LK.
kof has weirdly lenient buffers for your buttons but xiii doesn't have as much motion correction as other modern games so your motions have to be clean but the actual timing windows are almost like an anime game
90% of kof combos is just learning how to buffer your specials together in one fluid motion eg 62363214
Why doesn't the game just outright tell me this?
because these concepts are almost thirty years old anon
Yeah and fucking moving backwards and forwards and crouching are older but it's still in tutorials.
So fuck everyone that hasn't been playing for decades I guess
if you play fighting games you are the type of person to look things up
i dont get what the complaint is. its the #1 genre you have to look shit up. are you acting like you wouldnt look it up?
why do people just sit here all day and concoct fake shit to complain about? its so fucking gay
it's an autism check to keep normalmorons away
it doesn't stop trannies sadly
labbing is gameplay in the mind of jp devs
Because SNK bad and really behind the curve when it comes to plenty of things.
Only Namco is more useless with Tekken when it comes to explaining shit. Interestingly enough Soul Calibur actually has a really comprehensive ingame resource that explains characters and shit.
Some anons here don't realize that the reason why fighting games even got a resurgence in the first place is because most of Japan finally listened into streamlining some controls for people to play.
what? SF4 is more autistic about its combo system than previous SF games.
it had nothing to do with that, it was just released after a decade of no SF and people were craving that because they played 2 on the Super Nintendo.
So why is every brain dead game like GBFVS dead?
jap lack of business acumen, trying to sell fighting games for $140 for the whole game
Granblue is dead because of bad netcode
DNF is dead because getting ToD'd off of a blocked hit isn't fun
I really fucking hate that we are only recently getting good netcode. trying to play something like sf4 is a fucking nightmare.
SF4 is a nightmare regardless.
Still annoyed there's no Street Fighter 3 and Capcom vs SNK 2 release with high quality rollback net-code
I'd probably just play them all the time if it was released.
Have you never heard of fightcade?
not that anon, but Fightcade isn't for me. i prefer playing all my games outta Steam so my hours, chievos, and friends are all collected and displayed in one place. any game i gotta run a seperate program or launcher to access is a pass from me. except for eroge, naturally. that's why i'd really like to see Marvel 2, Third Strike, Alpha 3, and CVS2 re-released on modern platforms as standalone titles with rollback.
thats very fucking pathetic m8.
Stages are a vestigial feature
it's just how i came up playing games online, mate. i used to track all that stuff through Xbox Live in the Xbox 360 days, now i track it with Steam. having all that stuff hosted on one platform is super comfy.
this but the insert, end, home, pause and sys rq keys
if you don't use ins/end/home frequently you just don't know how to use a computer well/aren't a skilled typist.
so what's the title?
the design of everyday things.
The fucking thing you fags are missing, is that nobody is fucking asking to trivialize the genre.
The book is simply complaining about sinken ship designs, piece of retarded Blacks.
Go and watch any game design lecture about Mario bros 1 for the NES.
Top tier amazing design.
Have you ever considered how many mechanics can you do in SMB 1?
You got two fucking buttons, and they easily map to walk, dash, power ups (mushroom, flower, star), break blocks, get coins, jump, super jump, hop, horizontal block hop, 1 live up combos, secret blocks, run and crouch trick, kill enemies with jumps, stars, and getting hurt with spikies, swim, climb.
Have you ever fucking considered how many mechanics can you do with just two buttons without requiring motion inputs?
Fucking idiots defending garbage sinken ships.
Weird ESL post.
Guess what: Nearly every action in mario requires motion inputs. Without them you can only jump upwards.
>fgc retard will now claim that walking and jumping is a motion arcade input
they literally are. and they can be very complex inputs too because they are often based on momentum and the state of mario.
on top of that the things you listed dont even make up for the movelist of a single character in a typical fighting game. its almost all just marios very limited moveset interacting with the world.
that makes sense because its a platformer, but guess what: fighting games are not.
>missing the point
>games where you dont have input buffers have motion inputs
>Long range jumps in SMB1 are motion inputs
man, learn to code, fucking dumb kid.
>Long range jumps in SMB1 are motion inputs
they literally are though. its forward+jump.
>games without input buffers have motion inputs
yes, but read again.
Good designs are like chess.
look up good designs like kof 2002, kof 98, SFII.
jesus christ take your meds.
moron, learn game design.
>learn game design
Given how shit games are these days after "game design" schools, you're probably better off just making what you like.
Can mario punch things?
He can in 64. His punch range is short though.
He has a breakdance kick move in 64 that’s kind of useless, but he does a lariat in Galaxy.
Fighting games have less buttons than other games because of their arcade roots. UI design is also very good.
>making up excuses to remove features but charge the same price or more
This is why phones are removing headphone jacks and why SD cardslots are rare now. This is why all sorts of genres have been replaced with gay ass normalfag varients no one asked for(like arena shooters dying to be replaced by loadout shooters)
play a game with a good design, SMB, not your trash pantsu pantsu pedo fighters.
but I want to fight people 1v1 with big movesets.
>Ganker: constantly jerks off about how based gatekeeping is
>also Ganker: makes threads daily about how fighting games have to change
>Single-button normal attacks
>Button + direction attacks
>Motion inputs for even more attacks
>Running, crouching and jumping variants for more attacks
>More buttons + more inputs = more attacks
You garden gnomes hate motion inputs so much and then when a game that doesn't have or need them comes out, you make up every reason possible to not try them just so you can keep making these retarded threads
>put in coop metroidvania with gear and loot
>casuals can learn combos,inputs,states etc without sitting in the lab learning shit they cant apply anyway
here I just solved the problem
All that will do is teach bad habits since AI characters in a game similar to Smash’s Subspace Emissary will act completely different from a human player in a traditional match. I remember one mode that worked for helping me understand the game was Edge Master or whatever it was called in Soul Caliber 2. It was a bunch of situational matches where you had particular win conditions for each fight in a cheesy tabletop-like adventure mode.
>teach bad habits
not really as you can have special enemies that rush in, counter poke, block dp, hadouken or backdash or emulate low or mid level players.
them fighting herds did something like this.
>Soul Caliber 2
yeah everyone loved that, mk11 towers are similar and people still play them
its not a thing because it cant be a thing.
stop coping, those slit eyed devs are just as lazy as everyone else in the industry
>hurr durr we should remove saturated sound from metal music because it's not coherent with our modern sound equipment blasting 32bits
I'm gonna see the mountaintop with SF6. I haven't gone hard since UMVC3 but I'm doing it again.
Yeah the beta for 6 was the best time I've had in a fighting game in years, hopefully the infrastructure for the full game is even better, I'm really grateful that they're going back to a character ranking system rather than just your player rank like the have in 5. Just gotta wait half a decade for the characters I like to return
basically i'm just not gonna
wait for long load times
i know.... ugh i know.....
it's just that
i'm not gonna
wait for long load times
It's funny that Ganker prides itself as the last bastion for trve hardcore gaymen and yet we have a thread about fighting games being too hard every other day.
Special moves and combos aren't even the real gatekeepers here. You would still get smoked in neutral.
the fgc are retarded and think casuals need the same gameplay as the EVO players.
I mean the issue is usually dumbing down the competitive aspects.
What casuals want is a solid single player mode, like the kof JRPG of psx, maybe some basic jrpg story mode where the fights are maybe like the SNES or psx tales.
Casuals dont bother with online or autistic EVO shit.
They're not afraid of learning a shoryuken, they're simply bored after playing a basic arcade mode.
Fucking retarded gay genre that thinks every fan of this stupid genre wants to play competitive shit or online.
bro, just make a fucking 2D metroidvania or 2D beatem up that plays like a 2D DMC or 2D bayonetta.
No need to put anything beyond local versus.
Fuck this shit retarded comunity.
where do you braindead retards even come from
I'm one of those casuals you fags complain about.
I play fighters but only the arcade vs cpu mode.
I don't bother with online.
Will you complain I am not one of the true fans of this genre because I don't bother playing other humans, retard?
I'm friend of the 5th best kof player in my Hispanic shithole.
>Will you complain I am not one of the true fans of this genre because I don't bother playing other humans, retard?
>Will you complain I am not one of the true fans of this genre because I don't bother playing other humans
yes. I will also call a shitbrained retard because you put up with garbage fighting game single player.
man I hate this recent third world invasion of Ganker. you are all mentally ill and have the most retarded opinions.
Are you part of the FGC?
>What casuals want is a solid single player mode
So why don't they play them?
100% of fighting games have the same shit as playing any crappy 2D fighter maker doujin fighter.
They don't have nothing but maybe training modes.
ah, yes, the gatekeepers that tell me I'm just too dumb to do ramon cancels on 02, instead of that shit being ultra autism.
And what I'm supposed to play?
Training mode againts an idle dummy?
What else is there in most fighters beyond the arcade mode?
Want to teach me, genius?
>gatekeepers are le bad
man why are Gankercels such hypocrites?
What am I supposed to play besides the arcade mode?
labbing is boring after like 10 minutes of practicing a combo.
And I'm not a comboboar to brag I can do autistic combo shit, nor I need autistic combo shit because I am not a competitive player.
Play with friends obviously.
I already played with friends when I was 20 and I no longer have interest in dealing with that drama shit now.
>cries that playing fighting games involves playing them
yes, I do love playing againts the cpu in the arcade mode?
Will you make any cope I'm not le true fighting game pure enjoyer because I don't want to deal again with gay drama of playing againts a human, but do you want me to play online, which is lag festival and scrubs being scrubs and try hards to basically have macro gamepads and can easily do daigo parries with a single button?
Do you seriously think the epic GGPO taiwanese masters are le epic masters and not macro fags?
Most other genres are like playing an even more casual version of 1994 fighting games.
Even elden ring is just a baby tier fighting game.
Elden ring is just playing maybe, maybe kof 95 versus rugal.
Is just autism, just like trying to beat rugal 95.
Why are you crying about cope while coping yourself?
>retarded Ganker retards think playing versus macro players is le epic fun
Online is filled with autistic macro retards.
>yes, I want to basically get a 98 perfect combo from an instant weak normal
you don't play fighters.
So why are you constantly posting about how you don't play fighting games?
>gay drama of playing againts a human
Have you tried just playing the game instead of messaging random morons? Or alternatively, picking games that have extra modes that aren't arcade and versus like I just fucking said instead of whining that a bare bones game is bare bones
>basically have macro gamepads and can easily do daigo parries with a single button?
post 30 seconds with evidence of this actually happening, people who cry about macros are near universally retards with skill issues or no conception of what an "option select" is
hard mode: not using some shit emulated game on fightcade as an example either
>play a genre built around 1v1 games
>what am I supposed to do by myself?
Play a different game
>What am I supposed to play besides the arcade mode?
With other people you sperg. This is like getting angry that shitposting requires an internet connection.
That being said, shit like SF6 will have that big epic world tour thing, and even GBVS has that awkward ass beat em up mode for the sufficiently bored
>labbing is boring after like 10 minutes of practicing a combo.
If you never entered training mode to grind out combos and checked the time to see that you just spent 2 hours on this shit when it felt like 30 minutes then you're simply not made for this genre.
And that's okay.
Not gonna lie, I've spent like 6+ hours in training mode just listening to music and pressing buttons to see how different things link.
fuck off Hispanic
The problem is usually more that casuals confuse their casual mashing with actually knowing how the game works
it's a Gankerery common disease here
Ganker thinks being a hardcore gamer is playing some visual novel nobody has ever heard of.
Don't change fighting games, make new and better fighting games to replace the old ones.
It's quite baffling to me that the biggest names in the industry focus on recreating their older games over and over instead of trying different things.
there is literally nothing baffling about it.
the games arent cheap to make. nobody wants flops and new franchises carry that risk. on top of that fans of said games do demand sequels anyways.
They should make sequels as long as those sequels are profitable, but they should also make spinoffs and new franchises to push the genre/medium forward. Eventually some of those new creations drive enough interest to push the older ones out of existence because nobody will care about them anymore.
So why is Ganker so bad at every game?
where did retarded friendless shiteaters get the impression from that people ever bought fighting games for their dogshit single player?
they were bought for couch play. not tournament play, but playing with family and friends like other party games.
I dunno about fighting games but this describes Monster Hunter to a T
Fighting games used to have some kind of single player progression. You had a roster and each character had a unique ending. You'd unlock bonus characters and costumes. It was something to do in between times when your friends came over.
I understand people hate unlocked characters because they want to "main" someone on a fresh install and don't want to unlock them first. But by hyper focusing on online competitive there's now nothing for casuals to entertain themselves with. And casuals are the people who ballooned SF4's sales figures and walked away from SFV and T7.
I'm all for gatekeeping, if you want your FGC games to be laser focussed on online competition then you should be perfectly allowed to. However fighting games are expensive to produce and these days even more expensive to maintain and there aren't enough of you to pay for that. If fighting games don't re-learn what attracted casuals to the genre they'll be shelved again for another 10 years.
tl;dr casuals want content, not dumbed down moves.
Dont worry, Project L will revolutionize and save the fighting game genre (gigantic cash prize money included!)
what do I play?
Againts the imaginary locals that died in my town in 2009?
Do you want me to spend 2 hours traveling to the closest maybe locals I have?
I just don't give a fucking shit you can do Geese infinites or K'9999
I have better shit to grind like learning japanese and my studies than wasting my time grinding combos.
I have kof 02 on steam and other fighters.
So you don't play fighting games but want to be validated as playing them and seethe when people don't accept you?
Are you trans?
do you want me to post me doing the basic Max mode combos on magic plus 2?
I don't give a fuck what you do. I just know you want attention for doing nothing.
Fighting games are for morons, Mexicans, and chinks
They're a remnant of the arcade era when white kids had consoles and everyone else had to spend their lunchmoney on SF2
I find this the funniest cope from Gankercels.
>le morons are dumb
>le fighting games are played by le morons
>le fighting games are too hard
What the fuck does that say about you then incel?
I never said morons were dumb or that I'm bad at fighting games. I'm saying they're a remnant of a bygone era that hasn't sufficiently evolved in gameplay for nearly 30 years
Uh huh sure pal, keep coping.
Fighting games aren't hard in and of themselves. The competitive scene is filled with tryhards who literally only play FGs. The community makes it unbalanced.
Yes I'm sure the community spent hours and hours to discover retarded shit like the mortal kombat jab infinite that any braindead moronspawn could figure out in three seconds
They literally did. There's a reason why the meme "secret Discord tech" exists
Tryhard is such a hilarious term to me.
>what do I play?
>Againts the imaginary locals that died in my town in 2009?
How about with the online modes of the online games you have that can be played online using your internet connection to find players that could be online?
Or don't be a lazy moron and make your own locals, it's easier than it sounds even if you live in bumfuck fucking nowhere
Or even better, just don't play games ever again and stop posting
why do you morons think I want to be a competitive player?
Why are you so desperate for approval?
what fucking approval, retardo?
I love playing againts the CPU.
I simply don't bother with online or locals.
I just wish there was a JRPG mode where I can play something like ToP in SNES besides the arcade mode.
Is that too dificult to understand.
If you're not desperate for approval, why are you still here posting trying to justify your actions? Clearly this is from your insecurity.
>why do you morons think I want to be a competitive player?
When did I say that? You asked who the fuck to play with, I gave you an answer
moron, I want to fucking play a fucking 2D DMC, not some autismo lab shit versus some fag playing with a lag pedal and a macro gamepad.
Then play fucking side scroller indie games instead of fighting games
what the fuck was the point of this thread then
yes, the glorious 2D garbage where I can't do cancels, supers, or anything but maybe press square and square and maybe square.
And maybe roll.
The most complex shit you can do in SOTN is not even a combo but just jump, atack sword and then crouched sword.
Wow, totally 100% fun.
Elden ring is the closest shit to a complex combat system, and that shit is just gay low HP garbage with maybe a roll and just some fireballs and maybe baby tier zoning with the AI.
And the Bosses are just bullet sponges with just massive hitboxes.
Wow, such marvel of combat system.
Literally worse than SNK fighters in 1995.
I've seen doujin fighters with a more complex combat system than elden ring.
No moron, I want to do kusoge garbage againts the AI that doesn't require autismo lab garbage.
So you DO want a game with highly complex and technical combat, but you DON'T want your technical game to actually require you to "autistically" learn how to do technical or complex things, thus making the game... not complex and not technical?
Do I need to spell out how utterly nonsensical you're being
why do I need autistic hardcore tryhard input shit for a single player game?
Do I need to balance my inputs so the AI can properly react, retardo?
You don't have to on either count obviously, but why say you want complexity if your idea of complexity is patching out complexity? I mean, I guess you did cite DMC and Elden Ring as examples, so it makes sense....
>i'd really like to use my combos on like six goons or on a cool boss or something
It's sad that GBVS is basically the only game I can think of where you can do this.
But also fuck that moron, he's talking about something different here
bro, I want to do this shit, but after 15 years of playing 2002, I can't do this shit.
And I want to do this in a fucking level like the smash melee mario level againts stupid goombas that are just bullet sponges and I can just make bounce around with launchers.
another newfag to the genre that never played based mugen.
Unironically, just play Fight'n Rage.
>after 15 years of playing 2002
How can you have the autism necessary to stick with the same game for fifteen years but not be able to handle a single one of these? Especially the Angel combo which ISN'T THAT HARD LOL
you know what sucks? i bought GBFV specifically for this, only to find out that the side scroller mode has a different control scheme and different gameplay properties than the actual fighting game portion of the product. so none of the stuff i practiced in training mode even mattered.
that's what i described, anon. a full game with a combo system like MVC or FighterZ, playing out across an entire Castlevania map.
man, imagine playing a fighter and you can basically do a castlevania map, but like you can equip like short macro combo shit, like 4 short weak normals and automatic cancels.
So like the materia system of FFVII but they're macro shit.
Man, finally some good shit.
But It still doesn't reach the level of autism of some fighters.
I play for fun, not to make this shit a full time job.
nah, this anon is right. we need more fully realized fighting games with side-scrolling PVE modes. fighting games have way more depth than beat'em ups. i tried to play SoR4 and that shit is like two buttons, River City Girls 2 is like three buttons and barely has any juggle potential. i want something like FighterZ or Marvel vs Capcom playing out as a PVE experience across a huge ass Castlevania map. sweating it out in Ranked is fine, and playing Arcade Mode is fine too, but i'd really like to use my combos on like six goons or on a cool boss or something. especially these "new" games with less than 20 playable characters where i'm playing a billion mirror matches online.
newfags think I want to play beatem ups when that garbage is simpler than smash 64.
I want to play the mugen level of mario as an fucking real game.
Jesus fucking christ no wonder you're a retard
So you want to lab combos and just press them regurgitated and too scared that something could go wrong?
Why do you think you want to play theoretical video games if you're this filtered by mechanics?
Not everyone that play soccer foir fun want to become a professional soccer player to compete in the champions league.
If your definition of fun is winning every single game then you've never really had fun.
So single player games aren't real fun?
>I've never been beaten or challenged by a single player game on any theoretical level
They're fun for their constructive challenges.
Okay but, very clearly unlike you (15 YEARS and you can't do a Max Mode combo you're an actual fucking brainlet) that doesn't mean they don't try to learn how to do the cool things that champions do.
No, I can't do the autism combos, learn to read.
have you played versus other players.
It's a scrub you easily stomp.
It's some much more experienced player that will stomp you.
You almost never find someone that will provide really a quality challenge.
And while It's fun to stomp and destroy noob rugals, I no longer have interest in playing humans.
Because It's only fun if you treat fighters like a job and find a local comunity of other try hards to do try hard shit.
And I have no intention of playing tryhards who spend hours and hours memorizing dozens of oki and 50/50 and other situational garbage.
I rather spend my fucking time grinding something more useful than this shit.
I like the genre, but I hate to play other players, because It's always a scrub that eats the most basic noob spam, which It's just easier than dealing with rugal on the arcade mode.
Or It's one of the friends of my gay /fgc/ local scene, which they can easily do most infinites and ToD from pretty much any situational BS with most characters.
And I stopped having any interest in dealing with this garbage.
>No, I can't do the autism combos, learn to read.
It's fine if you played the game 15 years ago, then came back to it but can't do a Max Mode combo. That's perfectly fine.
But that's not the case, you played the game FOR fifteen years and can't do a strong combo. That's not just incompetence, that's LAZY moron SHIT
Don't forget to dilate before bed
do you moron realize most of those combos videos are TAS that uses HEX editors to edit the ROM?
do you moron speak english or can do a Max Mode combo?
do you retarded moron can't comprehent I am not talking about the BnB shit that is done on normal matches, but the tryhard shit that requires bugs and specific matchups in certain conditions?
Do you think these combos are just lmao just lab for more hours?
Are u a newfag and don't know most combofag shit requires TAS and hex editors?
>do you retarded moron can't comprehent
No, I can't "comprehent" your dogshit English
>I'd rather spend my time grinding in games that offer less social usability
See what I said before. Get past that stupid bullshit where you think just knowing the mechanics should earn you a dopamine release in every match. Your definition of a "quality challenge" is an antiquated hyperfixation on players needing to be of a comparative skill level. Learn from your losses, go outside and shit man.
SFV and T7 sold more than SF4.
Get rid of life bars, force matches to extend to a certain time, and reward points to good play and deduct points from bad play (turtling or spamming)
>design game around not engaging instead
I did say no turtling.
Your idea encourages nothing but turtling.
You literally get punished for turtling - it's a points based system. If you go in the negative, it can effect movement and damage
And playing to a timer encourages noncommital play since it means you won't be punished for a mistake. Who cares if there's a negative to damage or movement, you're still at a plus because you're not engaging and potentially losing.
The timer incentivises continual play, and allows for comebacks and eliminates combo stunlocks
>The timer incentivises continual play
Also make parries highly rewarding to incentivise organic combat flow, and punish spams
parries are gay
modern fighting games be like
>please disregard our last fighting game you can buy right now for $49.99 with 45 playable characters
>please buy our new fighting game for $59.99, it will include 14 playable returning characters and 4 new characters for a grand total of 18
>also, please make sure to stay tuned for the five Seasons of DLC over the next five years where we'll drip feed you 30 more characters at an agonizingly slow pace for $124.99 (including other returning fighters you definitely wish were in the base game)
>don't forget to check out our Premium Costume Shop!! Cammy's Classic Leotard on sale now for $4.99!
this genre is almost as bad as mobile games.
OP, get a trip so we can filter you like you get filtered by fighting games.
Ganker with every other genre
>git gud fags fucking casuals and journos ruining vidya games
Ganker with fighters:
>FUCKING AUTIST TRYHARDS YOU MIGHT BE GOOD AT FIGHTING GAMES BUT AT LEAST I HAVE A LIFE LOSERS
You can't deny the entertainment value of reading these threads
I can't wait for the LoL fightan to come out, we haven't had people bitch about throws since the 90s and nowadays we'd see posts like
>"it is MORALLY WRONG to damage someone while they're BLOCKING, I was SEXUALLY HARASSED by the grapple character and the devs MUST RESPECT their players and add an ACCESSIBILITY MODE with no throws"
>Spend thousands of hours in a lab to be okay at one character
>Thousands of hours across different games
>game that is actually hard and complex
>games Ganker pretend are hard and complex
You are wasting your time with the schizo Hispanic.
He is shitting up various fighting game threads with his copes about putting work in.
He also wants to develop a fighter but refuses to learn to code and animate for it so he uses some garbage pirated engine.
Arcsys games went to shit after rev 2. Tekken 7 was just okay, SFV is pretty good after 5 fucking years of updates. Under night and melty are really good, but dead if you want to play online. DBFZ was fun, but had trash netcode just like most fighting games used to. It's been a rough couple of years. I've taken a break from fighters for a while after all the disappointment, but SF6 legitimately looks great, so I'm pretty stoked to get really into a game again. Here's hoping for the best.
morons tongue my fighting games
I wish Virtua Fighter were popular, and VF5U were on every platform.
I don't know why people dislike it. It's just better. I guess the characters are a little generic but with customisation who actually cares.
if Sega believed in it as much as the fans they'd put it on PC and have tournaments and new characters and shit and we might see a revival, at least go the gnomish route and pay hundreds of streamers to pretend they're VF OGs like Tekken and Soul Calibur did. I love Yakuza but the fact that it turned Sega into a one-game company kinda sucks.
The most obvious opportunity right there. Put Kiryu in VF5 (he wouldn't appear too out of place), put VF5 on all systems and all the 'influencers' will flock to it.
kiryu doesnt fight women
sega knows that only japan cares about VF so they are hosting japan only events for VF5 still.
as a matter of fact its featured as a main stage game at evo japan this month.
i love street fighter games bros they are very cool but i doubt i would be able to play sf6, too heavy also try out this brazillian hack of alpha very very very cool, probably my favorite fighter now, and it makes poopy game like alpha 3 actually good fun and addicting (i play it daily at work),
Imagine bitching all the time about lowered industry standards and games getting casualized for the sake of mainstream audiences while at the same time bitching and moaning about how fighting games are too hard and have to be changed so that crybaby gays who can't figure out how to do a dp can play them.
The funniest part is that modern fighting games actually are incredibly easy.
>xhe thinks these 2 complaints are made by the same person
the Ganker is one person schizo posting is getting pretty old. take your meds and go outside.
>gays think I'll waste thousands of hours into labbing combos over spending that time to grind japanese vocabulary
Yet you do neither and post on Ganker hoping someone will respond to you sincerely to give you that momentary dopamine rush of a person acknowledging you.
fighting games are for retards. its all a knowledge check and muscle memory. theres no deep level thinking.
youre essentially trying to spam your best moves at all times.
This. Kek no wonder fighting game fags look so retarded when playing any other genre even fps.
retarded minds think alike. I can tell you got beat up in ranked in SFV or Tekken 7 and started crying about how the OTHER guy is retarded.
>fighting game fag calling anyone retarded
Kek just admit it, your small brain cant handle any other genre. Thats the reason you only play fighting games. Little prefrontal cortex ya got there too bad..
why do you type like a retiree on welfare
youd get raped if you played chess god forbid an rts. you play a game dumb monkeys are good at.
you could never play a real hard game.
why do brainlets always namedrop chess as if they even knew the rules of it?
at the end of the day its just a shitty board game just how at the end of the day you are just a little gay.
>hes already projecting
christ the retard doesnt even know how to move a chess piece fucking lol
cant hear you over your fighting game cope.
I play both of those regularly, I've got a pretty high elo in AoE2 and I've been playing chess and shogi for years. cope harder, gay, I'll beat you at literally any of your "real games" because if you're too stupid to do a quarter circle you're too stupid for most things.
yeah no you dont retard. fighting game dumbfucks cannot handle any other game genre. you cant even play fps without getting raped by a 9 year old
whatever you say. speaking of 9 year olds you certainly talk like one.
yeah youre just mad its true. you have no argument. continue playing your sub 45 iq genre game.
I have no argument? reread your posts where you go "uh hurr no u don't u'd get raped gay". people with normal level of intelligence can be good at fightan and other genres, a lot of people in this thread probably are. you just aren't one of them because your parents are siblings.
>going ultra butthurt because bad at fps genre, a baby genre too
kek you really do have sub 45 iq huh
I'm better than you at fps and rts, too. I can tell by the retarded way you talk. you keep bringing up 45 iq, is that in some way personal for you?
youre the one making it personal tho kek
and no u cant beat anyone on Ganker dont try acting tough
holy God everything you say is probably wrong and retarded. (You) this post if you want, "I accept your concession" or whatever you need to feel like you won, anyone reading this exchange is laughing their ass off at you
yeah nice projection retard. you also sound like a 9 year old saying shit like
>i could beat u up irl gay u wouldnt say that to my face
lol u play fighting games. thats all i need to say.
JUST MAKE A CHESS DOT COM MATCH OR QUIT BEING SHIT FLINGING MONKEY moronS
Not him but I was Top 500 in Overwatch and played in TF2 tourneys for 5 years before that. I did well in SC2 as well. I primarily play fighting games now though.
Because the move that comes out after the 720 deals a shitton of damage. It's risk/reward.
Cool larp retard. I was also a nasa astronaut in 2003.
I'm sorry but if being good at videogames is as unattainable in your mind as having been an astronaut then you must be absolutely braindead
Calling me braindead? Youre trying to larp on an anonymous website claiming to be a top player.
You are the definition of retarded.
You're doing reddit spacing right now just letting you know.
Anyways, having being Top 500 in OW for almost a year isn't even close to having been a "top player". Neither is having competed in TF2.
Dude you're crying on Ganker about being shit at fighting games then when you get called out you start crying even more, get a grip.
Btw I tried looking up my old battlenet tag on some sites just now but it's not showing up. I deleted that account after quitting Overwatch. I'm not giving you my steam account for my TF2 shit.
I'll be leaving the thread now.
Just share the bed.
stay butthurt gay. you arent good at video games whatsoever like most of Ganker.
>Braindead retard becomes even more angry
Kek imagine being this sensitive.
dont claim to be some top shit and then not post your username. fucking loser gay
And rts guys get raped playing fighting games. And fps guys get raped playing rts. It is almost like they are all different genres.
just because youre retarded as hell doesnt mean everyone else is. fighting games are for button mashing retards and are the only fanbase that cant into any other genre that isnt singleplayer storymodes.
I don't think you are good at any genre
and i think youre just butthurt because you play a genre of games for retards.
You didn't deny my claim
why would i deny something i know is objectively false? do you have down syndrome?
I don't believe you
and i dont care. fighting game fags opinions are as worthless as battle royale fags.
You've never played high level rts in your life. Brain activity of top rts players has been studied and there's no deep thinking, that's actually how you can tell someone's really good, they have the game down to instinct since rts is so fast and mechanically intensive.
fighting games are a genre where peak fun is playing at around an average-to-above-average skill level with your friends. it's only when you start trying to play soulless ranked matches against randos that you run into people who wanna waggle in neutral pressing their best normals over and over again until you fuck up and they can combo you for 45% of your lifebar.
shit happens with shooters too though, they're a blast with friends around your skill level but once that 50/50 SBMM starts throwing you into sweat lobbies with people rehearsing GameBattles strats that your enjoyment of the game starts plummeting.
This might be a stupid question but bear with me.
What is the best open world fighting game? Like, I want to run around a big map looking for fights, each instances seamlessly morphing into a 1v1. Most people tell me that it's Dark Souls, but I'm looking for something more traditional.
that indie furry game with bunnies.
doesnt exist and probably wont exist because it simply doesnt make sense to make that.
a game where you typically fight only one opponent at a time? That's pretty much the premise of Monster Hunter, which also gives you a complex move set per weapon, and if you wanna fight other humans 1v1 there's Shenmue. it is hard to think of more examples, though, that's a rare bird
I don't like that people who don't play fighting games and don't understand what makes them work are the ones who barge in and demand changes. It's the epitome of arrogance
its literally gnomish subversive behavior.
something Ganker accuses others of doing to their beloved franchises and genres.
but for fighters its suddenly different. suddenly they NEED to sell out, dumb shit down and pander to mouthbreathers or they are doomed (despite selling more than ever).
Everything makes sense when you consider that fighting games is one genre where Ganker can't pretend to think they're good at. You have people here that often think they're some hidden god at video games but always blame one factor or another for why they aren't. It's rather ironic when this is the same board that loves to spout the virtues of gatekeeping.
It's all fun and games until you're the one behind the gate
Even if removing KBD would make the game worse, it's still a shit game from the start
Also this has nothing to do with your original assertion and you're a stupid moron
The problem with modern fighting games is the retarded execution. Why the fuck does shit like a 720 motion input exist in a game where you have to do it in like 4 frames.
because thats the input for zangiefs super and it would be fucking retarded and broken if it was any easier.
>it would be fucking retarded and broken if it was any easier.
How so? The 360°/720° motion is (almost required to be) buffered behind a dash, iump or normal and effectively comes out just as easy (if not more easily since those actions that allow for the buffering can threaten other options the opponent performs) as if the motion were replaced by something like R1+X.
The only moves that would be truly broken are charge moves, and that is only because the charge moves are designed to be overpowered on paper, held back by the time to charge. Make Flash Kick more minus on block, or give it a few frames of vulnerable startup, or install a conditional like that charge character in Fantasy Strike and there's suddenly no problem.
Because you just made a move that requires some form of commitment or confirm via another move or input something that can be instantly thrown out raw. Simplifying the input makes it objectively more powerful.
>make flash kick more minus on block
How about no? Flash kick works fine the way it is and changing it's properties changes it into a different move with a different identity and purpose. Why does it need to be changed in the first place? To make it easier? To make it more logical? Fuck all that.
> The 360°/720° motion is (almost required to be) buffered behind a dash, iump or normal
>effectively comes out just as easy as if the motion were replaced by something like R1+X.
do you realize the stupidity? there is that clear limitation that comes from having the move come with such an input.
so would your fix be to only allow your shitty R1+X bind to work after a dash, jump or normal? thats gay and artificial as hell and fighters arent made with such weird exception rules. on top of that it would punish people who know how to standing 360/720.
man what the fuck is this. whats the point of making flashkick more minus? people can already punish it with a fucking neutral jump which is the highest possible damage starter. removing invul would just nerf the move and kill its original intent.
Modern fighting games have made execution so easy that it's barely a barrier at all anymore.
Why is it still impossible to have full range movement and attack at the same time in fighting games?
because fighting game exclusively refers to street fighter 2 clones
because its awkward and shitty. your floaty webm kind of shows what I mean.
jedi knight games were fun but its not something to actually dump much time into.
Except no real fights involves gluing yourself to the floor or only move by making your body a projectile.
You can't even adjust the direction and path of attacks like in real life.
real fights dont involve slow gay backflips and lightsabers either, retard.
And yet it still ends up far more closer to real fights. That's how pathetic modern fighting mechanics are
Play a UFC game then what the fuck are you complaining about lmao
So you didn't even bother comprehending the last few posts.
I didn't even read your previous posts I just responded to your latest one for (You)'s
by all means enjoy your gay star wars kids larp simulators then.
>still don't get how low of a bar Jedi Outcast set (like not even puddle level), and yet game mechanics are still stagnant as ever
maybe because nobody cares about that gameplay and its nothing great and your whole perception is off. I mean you dont even know when you are meant to greentext.
Jedi Knight combat is so close to being perfect, Movie Battles addresses some issues but a more established move set and more reliable defense are the two big issues.
Most games don't even let you adjust the movement and angle of attacks like you could in real life
almost like they are not meant to reflect real life
Because it just turns into people flailing around in eachother's direction and hoping it hits
>the game asked me to spin the stick twice I cant handle this situation
My favorite cope is Gankertards thinking they would be neutral gods and only the dp motion is holding them back, when execution is the easiest part of a fighting game.
you can win at fighting games with two buttons
Now try doing that with a character with stubby normals and/or massive pushback on basic normals. So many people are missing the bigger picture here. It's not the "difficult inputs," the shitty netcode, or the catering to casuals that's the problem with fighting games nowdays. It's the fact that 98% of the schlock that releases is imbalanced as fuck. Too many developers don't give a shit about balance. They care more about monetization, gnomish practices, season passes, etc, than actually giving every character a fighting chance.
Don't even get me started on how the DLC characters in SF V remain so utterly broken to this day.
this years capcom cup top8 featured 8 SFV launch characters.
what will your next cope be?
>FGC fag using EVO to argue everything for them for the umpteenth time
Why am I not surprised
How is that not a valid argument?
What sort of schizo meltdown is this now? What are you trying to say and to whom? Why are you quoting me?
proving that fighting games across the board aren't even closed to balanced with facts and statistics.
He thinks the backdash tier list is the actual tier list for the game
>he sincerely thinks backdashes and sidesteps are of equal standing in Tekken 7
Two characters on the right side of this are/were considered the actual best characters in the game. This still isn't showing what you think it is. The only thing it shows is that you don't know anything about the actual game to anybody whose even casually familiar with it. Like, come on, bro. If you have the backdash tierlists ready then surely you've seen better examples of Tekken's shit balance than this.
So, not only do you admit Tekken has shit balancing (thereby proving my very original point, good job retard, why are we even arguing again?) but you fail to grasp the very basic premise of the webm in question, its implication:
Backdashes and sidesteps are not made equal. This creates a huge problem in a game like Tekken, that puts emphasis on attack rather than defense or mobility. This is further exacerbated by the fact that KBD exists (which shouldn't). If you are going to leave in a bug that was left in to appease Korean autists, you sure as hell better make sure that sidestepping and backdashes are more consistent across characters so you aren't left with a hodgepodge of imbalances like only characters being able to doge certain attacks, with others being left out in the proverbial cold.
This only reinforces the point that Tekken, for all intents and purposes, is a chaotic party game. A mindless brawl in which 9 year olds can trounce 20 year vets by mashing buttons. Basically, you are a huge gay who is apologizing for shit mechanics, bad imbalance, and below average standards for game developer quality.
let me guess: hardstuck orange ranks?
you really think he plays?
someone that angry has to have gotten their ass beat by retards first. you either take the lesson and get better or you post paragraphs about it on Ganker
he's a retarded Hispanic mashing in single player romhacks of kof.
>corporate cock lover fanboys have no rebuttal so they fall back on the same tried and true fallacy of relying on online e penis rank to get anywhere
Bro I'm not reading this. Just go play Tekken 4 over netplay and you'll see why you're wrong on some of the KBD crap.
>muh no online
If you're dedicated enough to bitch for that long you should know what I mean.
>still no rebuttal
Don't need say anymore than what did. Clear you've never looked into Tekken 4 outside of whatever you've learned through osmosis.
Dummy the game is balanced around backdashes and sidesteps not being equal. Jack has intentionally shit movement, because he has god tier pokes. You are parroting something without knowing what you are talking about.
>why are we even arguing again
Because the example you gave is retarded.
>Backdashes and sidesteps are not made equal
No shit, retard. Characters are different. Those things being different isn't inherently a sign of bad balance. Having 'godlike' movement doesn't mean a character isn't actually godlike anymore than having a weaker backdash means a character is weaker than the others.
>Basically, you are a huge gay who is apologizing for shit mechanics, bad imbalance, and below average standards for game developer quality.
Nah, I have a pretty low opinion of Tekken. I was just giving you a hands up that the examples you gave didn't show what you thought they did and only told everyone you didn't actually know what you're talking about but if you wanna double down on looking like a moron then go for it.
Don't even waste your time. He's either baiting or is so retarded and locked into his position that you'll never change his mind.
>than actually giving every character a fighting chance
Every character does have a fighting chance. Gief in SFV is considered the actual worst character but people still win with him in Warlord. Is it often an uphill battle? Sure. Is it unlikely to win a tournament with him? Yeah. But the character is still playable even at the highest level. Going by official stats, even the worst character at any rank still has like a 45% average winrate or higher and a lot of the highest WR characters usually aren't even considered top-tier but are more just rare characters people are unfamiliar with.
>just divide by zero bro
These threads are so powerful.
Just in this one:
-single player retards who miss the point of the genre
-filtered copers who lash out at anybody who likes fighting games because their egos got hurt instead of just moving on to play what they like
-fans of unrelated genres asking why they cant be considered part of the cool kids club
-smash babbs who as always display their complete lack of understanding when it comes to fighting game mechanics and design, as they dont play fighting games
-third world schizos doing completely unhinged rants and starting fights that have nothing to do with the topic
>pay 100 usd for something you only get the most barebones experience
Fighters should cost 10 usd compared to shit like elden ring.
elden ring is a garbage low quality game though. I pirated it and still felt ripped off.
Unironically my main reason to come to Ganker these days. It's good fun
>trying to apply this to the most minimal of genre UIs
actually what are you talking about?
>Ganker always bitches about fighting games
>doesn't play SamSho even though it's the answer to all their complaints
Never listen to Ganker bitching about fighting game design as a whole. These people don't actually like fighting games on a fundamental level and will never be pleased if they are actually arguing in sincerity.
This is the worst thread I've read this week. Fuck all of you.
>monkey brained fuckery
>fighting game fags defend having a monkey brain
Fighting games are the best they have ever been since the genre was invented.
this thread was made by cris, AGDG's resident failed game developer and columbian schizo
here is the fighting game he made: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZK7iUPLnt4Y
you are schizophrenic.
>actual braindead Mugen Hispanic that wants to do cool shit but is too retarded to do it and wants a different genre all together or one that enables retards like him in single player
I know this board is third world idiot haven as shown by /vint/ but man this is funny
tell me what beatem up doesn't have a garbage braindead combat?
I cant play beatem ups, they're literally mobile phone games compared to fighters.
>starts bringing up random shit
Seems like anon hit the nail on the head, lmao.
I want to play a single player fighting game without versus or online, is that too dificult to understand, retardo?
I don't get the problem either.
Anyway, the new SF6 has a full single player campaign, but aside of that you have games like Blazblue, SFA3 for PSP, Guilty Gear Accent Core, and a few others that have a decent amount of single player content aside of the usual Arcade and Survival.
I want to play a 2D beatemup with a fighting game combat system.
Is that too hard to understand?
Then play a fighting game with single player modes like gbfvs, mk or sf6 world tour and fuck off retard. Or just stick to mugen
>retard thinks I want to play casual garbage for phones
this video is such a throwback, goddamn.
retarded Gankerappa thinks I want to make a casual fighter with simpler inputs, when I am fucking talking about basically a niche thing in fighters.
not that anon, but i don't think it's unreasonable to wish for a fun, combo exhibition fighting game that doesn't force you into PVP.
i've put a lot of hours in playing SFV Mysterious Mod against the CPU because it's flashy as hell, but it'd be a lot more fun to take this stuff onto a dynamic Metroidvania map. it bites that my only options are more VS CPU, or joining the Discord and playing against the five other people who are probably ridiculously good at it.
and needless to say, i am REAL fuckin' annoyed that the GBFV Chaos mod doesn't apply to the side scroller mode because it uses a different ruleset than regular vs mode. fucking seething.
man, fucking retards don't fucking understand I want to do combo autism in a fucking metroidvania without this shit needing 500 hours to grind in a lab?
I'M SO SICK OF THIRD WORLD HispanicOID SCHIZOS THEY ARE EVERYWHERE NOW AND JUST SHIT UP EVERYTHING
I wish we had flags so fucking much dude. this idiot that can't understand why why no one wants to make shit like ninja kun with fighting game combos, that gay posting chilean that kept saying "str8" while ban evading and the fallout poster. I hate them so damn much.
Seriously every time I run into a massive fucktard schizo, console warrior or general idiot its revealed that its some south american sooner or later either because of their retarded misplaced patriotism which forces them to reveal where they come from or because they post some screenshot from a favelatop running emulators on 800x600 resolution with spanish/portuguese words in the background.
Also look at this post I saw in a thread talking about ESLs. The suspects fit the description to a tee.
name a vestigial element in ryu's moveset or street fighter's game system. i'll wait.
Has anyone here been to a major before? I'm going to be sharing a hotel with 3 other guys but there's only 2 queen size beds. I'm not gay and I don't plan on having sex, but I really don't want to sleep on the floor either.
How weird would it be to ask to share the bed? I'm 30
You're already a gay if you're overthinking this so much. Closeted gay ass moron.
Clearly, I'm autistic. So I've never been in this position before and I never learned what's socially acceptable. I usually just by with following by example but this situation is a little too unique for that.
just ask to be the big spoon. you can FT5 for it too.
The R button is so I can call the retard department and tell them you got out of containment
Is this one of those shit fight game threads?
>fighting games are too hard make them simple!
>they're simple now
>wtf I learn everything after 3 hours of play DROPPED
FG gays arent even human. They play games not for if they are fun or not but just to show off the fact that they can do gay combos.
>can do gay combos
It's to show off that I can go on a 70+ winstreak and get to diamond on 15 new accounts in a week while 99% of Ganker is stuck in super silver.
akshually I'm stuck in ultra silver
99% of people bitching about motion inputs don't play fighting games.
But it's also true that 99% of the time, motion inputs don't actually do much to increase the skillgap and you could probably raise the skill floor without signficantly reducing the skill ceiling by tweaking or removing them.
It's just that the actual main obstacle for people getting into fighting games isn't motion inputs, it's people not going into fighting games with the right perspective of seeking self improvement, practicing, seeing replay value and content in terms of depth/community interaction, and people getting intimidated by combos and inputs and tech and frame data in theory moreso then the actual execution of them.
That last one is particularly though: I go to locals and have even won locals in some games, and even I find it difficult to get past the bump of being worried about knowing BNB's and punishes and tech before starting a new game
>But it's also true that 99% of the time, motion inputs don't actually do much to increase the skillgap and you could probably raise the skill floor without signficantly reducing the skill ceiling by tweaking or removing them.
>changing them does nothing but lowers skillcap
>change it anyways
>anon is obviously bias to no motion inputs due to being a smash pedo
I don't play smash
not really. you just suck and aren't willing to put in any effort to learn the genre. then you bitch and go away. that's normal and I like it so I'll keep my fighting games niche, thank you.
>but tekken 8/sf6 mainstream!!!
Typical midwit academics casting down criticisms of designers in industries they have absolutely nothing to do with.
I only play BlazBlue to masturbate. There I said it..
>I want to do cool and crazy fighting game combos that take effort like in these videos
>but I'm dumber than my average third world brethern and instead of being willing to practice I want do it easily and in a fucking single player only metroidvania or beat em up that no one who makes fighting games would want to touch
I wish the Hispanics that actually played kof against each other and were good at it posted here instead. Kofxv threads might've lasted more than 5 days and be something more than image dumps.
Y'all agreed and you defended it in debates.
Auto combo was a mistake
I want to put this mai doing this shit in this video.
I want to play her in this game.
Basically put mai shiranui in Ninja Kun.
Is that too schizo for you, retardo?
I'm not talking about dumbing down the genre, retard.
Auto combo can do everything shown in this video, that doesn't make you good even if you can manually pull it off.
I am not talking about pvp shit.
If an auto combo could do it for you then this is not impressive.
The video isn't showing anything better than what we can do using auto combo in fighting games
did u miss half of what I posted?
I said doing that on the ninja kun game.
>dude balance is why I'm dogshit at fighting games
>no I wont pick a character I perceive as strong that would mean putting my ego on the line
The second character was considered top-tier while the 'godlike' character was considered mediocre at best for the years I played this game. This webm is not showing what you think it is.
This is just some retard schizo who blames the fgc for everything. He has no idea what he is even posting.
Yeah, I don't know how I still trick myself into posting on this shit board occasionally when it feels like 90% of the people are legitimately mentally ill or plain retarded, if they're not just baiting, while the other 10% are left endlessly screaming at them to fuck off as they destroy any attempt at an actual discussion. I may as well talk to a chatbot except I think a chatbot would show more desire to engage and learn something.
it feels like people have gotten much less sane here over the last few years.
I dont know if its some newfag third world influx or if people are straight up losing their marbles because the world is kinda going to shit.
A bit of column A, a bit of column B. For the former, you'd be surprised how many populate this site for the longest time and yet things were still relatively sane over a decade ago. For the latter, I blame people being terminally online and the world going to shit which has eroded their sanity.
>and yet things were still relatively sane over a decade ago.
well I dont know why they now think its ok to post.
its 100% just people who are fucked in the head. my natural reaction to them has always been the same too. I read part of their post and my eyes just start rolling automatically and my brain blocks out to prevent a crash I assume. its the same when I'm confronted with retarded social studies lingo.
I just noticed that there's an uptick of this kind of shit. chatbots arent like that. as you said the chatbot would have more reasonable things to say. I even asked the chat bot about matchup infos in super turbo for fun and the result wasnt even awful.
I wish other parts of the internet werent so pozzed and awful this shit here isnt good or healthy either you know what they say about staring into the abyss. I dont want to be surrounded by schizos all the time.
From one anon to another, all I can say is that you should leave this place. I don't say this as a "fuck off and go back to whatever containment etc" but I mean it as you should leave because this place is just bad for you. Get off the internet if you can or at the very least, off the usual places like whatever social media you might've used. These places are poison to the mind and it will erode you mentally given enough time and usage.
There's hardly any discussion or fun to be had here, Ganker has become a twisted parody of itself.
yeah I dont use Ganker as much anyways. shit sucks. I'm in some smaller communities that are basically offshoots from Ganker with some cool guys and I'm mostly sticking with those smaller circles. Anything that is truly open and front facing on the internet is ass these days.
>I read part of their post and my eyes just start rolling automatically and my brain blocks out to prevent a crash I assume
>this shit here isnt good or healthy either you know what they say about staring into the abyss
Yeah, once in a blue moon there's a decent thread but most of the time I actually end up getting a gross feeling if I browse this board beyond skimming the catalog for news. Shit's like actual psychic damage.
I've honestly wondered at times if it's like an actual bot overrunning the board. I genuinely wouldn't be that surprised but, like I said, I think something like chatGPT would actually make for better conversation on average.
wasn't someone just complaining about fighting games not having enough long term progression and unlockables?
False equivalence. There's a difference between progression and long term equivalence and an arduous grind that's clearly just designed to drain your fucking wallet and/or soul.
lol I actually activated a massive samefag spergout with this factual post.
He's actually just posting whatever at this point. I fucking hate the retarded esl schizos on this board so damn much
>fucking hate the retarded esl schizos on this board so damn much
its so common too. its unbearable.
>this entire thread
>capcom are gnomish retards
>the only reason I'm bad at fighting games is because they're unbalanced
>strawman concerning imbalance
no, that isn't what I said. Try again garden gnome lover
then you really are in the wrong thread I guess
This argument is getting increasingly hard to follow, what is even happening?
I think it's a genuine mental illness episode and this anon is arguing with himself.
Fighting game threads are peak mental illness. Eventually people just start dumping their schizo images and replying to themselves.
It really always does just turn out to be an utter refusal to learn huh.
>muh try hard
>hurr I either stomp or get stomped
post your recently played steam games so i know what good design looks like
>Thread doesn't even hit bump limit and he makes another just to have a repeat of anons calling him an idiot
Just stick to your shitty single player and shut the fuck up
>muh issue with modern fighting games
are you boomer larping and pretending that modern fighting games don't have much more leniancy compared to older ones?
try pulling off pretzels and max cancels in older KoF games, THEN come back bithing how modern fighters like SFV have needlessly difficult controls
>but muh why can't all fighting games have as easy inputs as possible
because inputs are fun to do
doing a Vergil combo in MvC3 is similarly fun to doing one in DMC3. If you could just mash a combo button to pull them off then they wouldn't be anywhere near as fun to do
or how cathing an enemy with a well executed DP is just much more fun than hitting someone with a single move anti-air, it requires more from you, it's harder to pull off, but it's also more rewarding. This is something that will always remain relevant, even pros often have to consider whether they want to execute a DP or just a single input anti-air, because a DP requires just that bit more mental preparation
can't believe this shitty thread will hit bump limit
I feel like alot of people hate fighting game solely because you cant cheat in them.
you can, but you kinda gotta be creative with it.
also ironically fighting games being made easier execution wise directly takes the advantage from combo script users away.