Paizo announces their own OGL

>Paizo is gonna fight Wizards in court and save the OGL 1.0!
Looks like they gave up and decided to build their own amusement park instead.

https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6si7v?Paizo-Announces-SystemNeutral-Open-RPG-License

  1. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    other thread drowning in 4chan
    its getting worse every day for wotc
    though I would like to see the license itself before trumpeting it as a savior of tabletop

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Pretty sure this is exactly what Wizards wanted.

      >Paizo comes up with new OGL
      >Players feel alienated and don't like it
      >Players begrudgingly go back to D&D

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        A dark conspiracy, but I have no reason to doubt it. Plus, how the fuck do you come up with a system as complicated as DnD, meant to match DnD, without stepping on legal landmines. If Paizo goes to court with them, no way DnD ever lets any semblances get through any more.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          i believe that you can not copyright game systems so the only thing the ogl protects is things like the settings and monsters that Wizards came up with.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            They can still trademark things such as how a spell is presented. You can't trademark specific words, so WotC can't trademark Instant, however, they can trademark how they break down their spell information.

            >Cast time: 1 Action
            >Cast duration: Instant
            >Components : V, S, M
            >Spell description, including things such as dice to roll, damage it deals (including type of damage) and other rules such as AoE shape
            They can totally trademark that as their "style" and anyone that wants to use similar spells must have not only new wording for those parts, but a different way of presenting it to the player. Hasbro will try to argue that Paizo is in violation of their trademark if this goes to court, even though Paizo is sure that they have not used WotC's terminology from the SRD and they only need to try to convince some idiot judge that this
            https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/chain-lightning
            is exactly the same as
            https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/chain-lightning/

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Merger doctrine blocks a lot of this due to the expression and the idea being essentially the same with no creative element. Scenes a Faire blocks a lot of it too, it being the legal idea that tropes and common genre elements belong to everyone. Kinda like genericization of trademarks. If every cowboy is a grizzly gunslinger, then nobody gets to copyright the idea of a grizzly gunslinging cowboy. It's a generic trope that the whole public gets to use. "Cast time", for example, is such a short and simple concept, linked to a common trope in a common genre, that it would probably hit Merger and Scenes a Faire at the same time, since magic users "casting" spells is so common an element in stories that have magic that nobody gets to own it.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                This may be true, but people will have to take it to court and actually show that this is the case. Hasbro is counting on no one coming forward. If they try to take it to court, Paizo will likely win, but that won't mean that Hasbro won't try to attack from every facet they can. Hasbro will want Paizo to die, even if they win the court case on the OGL's ability to be revoked, Hasbro will simply start to sue Paizo for other things, hoping that the money spent in court will drain their ability to do business and will freeze their product while a review of everything takes place. We would be hoping that a judge sees Hasbro's actions as blatantly malicious and a misuse of the court. Honestly, I would want a judge to remove the OGL from Hasbro's hands and give it to Paizo, but that is hoping too much.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              This.
              The license for the most part specifically covers shit that is intentionally "made for" DnD or aping that style of presentation and reference it's rules. Think all those shitty kickstarter splatbooks that just have a jumble of class archetypes, monster stat blocks and items. Or modules that reference rules, stats and other things from the core books. They're easy targets. But other games are entirely safe.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >They can still trademark things such as how a spell is presented

              Copyright not trademark, and that is questionable.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Actually they never said anything about PF 1e not using WotC's terminology, it's 2e that they created as their own thing and will be licensing under the ORC.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Dark Conspiracy you say?

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        There's no game mechanics in this, you dumbass. The OGL/ORC are legal documents granting distribution licenses.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        This entire thing isn't really a PLAYER problem though.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          It kinda is, although indirectly, it will give hasbro more power over the hobby space and big corpos owning everything is only ever bad for you, the consumer.
          Lest you forget, OneDnD is gonna be a live service game with "reoccurring user spending" (read as "microtransactions").
          Getting their grubby hands on ownership rights is just the first step to make sure they can ultimately nickle and dime all their players. And since it will destroy competition, DnD may be the only game in town.
          it is a player problem, just not right now.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >And since it will destroy competition, DnD may be the only game in town.
            Will it? DnD is not the only TTRPG in the world and other companies are just waiting for DnD to shoot themselves in the dick and remove themselves from the equasion. We had the very similar situation with 4e. Something else will fill the vacuum.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              You have to remember he's going off of the video game slippery slope where you had massive buyout conglomorating companies because programming them is expensive, time consuming and can be difficult. Meanwhile, Charlie Chucklefuck can make a TTRPG that works, I mean for fucks sake /tg/ has done it a couple times.

              >gave up
              OP stop being a retard, this is literally worse than 4e for WoTC.

              Not only has Paizo announced that if WoTC tries any nonsense, they're going take them to court (and win because most of the people who actually wrote the OGL work at Paizo), they also have literally formed a coalition of some of the largest third party publishers to completely abandon the D&D ecosystem entirely and instead start publishing under a license that will literally be held by a Linux Foundation tier nonprofit which will be open and irrevocable forever.

              It's literally over for One D&D, third party publishers and influencers are how WoTC makes their money and now that they're all threatened with 25% royalties AND the open alternative Paizo is making they're going to leave.

              Oh it's not just 3PPs, their announced people who are on board are 4 1PPs. Paizo (PF2e isn't OGL and was made that way), Green Ronin (AGE isn't OGL), Chaosium (I don't think I need to say their shit isn't OGL) and Kobold Press (Who announced they're making a non-OGL system).
              OF the two, one is basically a majppr contributor to Paizo 3PP products and the other could conceivably make their own fantasy non-OGL game.
              Something tells me Evil Hat'll likely join in (for another 1PP), and who knows if Paradox will let White Wolf/Onyx Path come on in.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Yes, and thats a good thing.
              It is, however, only a shot in the dick because people are kicking up a shitstorm.
              It is your obligation as someone into rpgs, even if you aren't playing DnD (maybe even especially if you don't), to dunk on wotc.
              A W for big corpo is only ever bad for consumers.
              An L for big corpo is only ever bad for big corpo.
              DnD is burning and that is good for all involved, except Hasbro and WOTC. Fuck 'em.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        You're either retarded, a shill, or both. Either way, go fuck yourself, retard.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        How could you feel alienated by the ORC
        Like, what possibility is there?

        Are you confusing the SRD and the OGL? Are you actually that retarded?

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        How can a man be so confident when he's this stupid.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous
          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            This entire thread is why I tend not to venture away from the PDF sharethread. Everyone is basically screaming at each other and not the people we should be (hint: no, it’s not Matt Mercer/Critical Role; it’s the entire leadership of Hasbro), everyone is spiraling into throwing slurs more at home on 4chan than anywhere else, and this entire thing is becoming one giant mess. Really wish y’all would just cool it with the personal insults and xenophobic comments, if I’m being honest, but of course, that’s a dream that will never come true.

            For the record, I’ve yet to actually read what Paizo put together as a counterpoint to Hasbro/WotC’s OGL 1.1, but from what I’ve read by others and have seen based on reactions from newsletters being circulated by various TTRPG sites/Twitter accounts/message boards, the ORC is, for all intents and purposes, lightyears better than whatever Hasbro’s offering. Quirky and oddly worded, sure, but most certainly a sight for sore eyes.

            If you’d excuse me, I’m gonna head back to the sharethread and try to forget that y’all exist, ok? Ok.

            This is one of the shittiest posts I have ever seen and I fucking hate you

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Thank God we have a containment game for fuck wits like you.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        How... how can you feel alienated by a license, exactly?

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Fuck off you pathetic shill

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Dude only read the headline and honestly thought it was Paiso is just making a PF2 OGL instead of we're making the TTRPG equivalent of GNU GPL.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Paizo comes up with new OGL
        >AAAAAARRGH I'M-I'-iI'M E-E-E-E-EEXPEEERIENCIIING ARGH ALIENATIOOOOOOOOOOOOOOON
        Bitch you silly as fuck.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Not even Paizo, they pretty much just anounced that it was coming and that there's already about 6 companies on borad. Paizo, Green Ronin, Kobold Press, Chaosium make up the We actually make systems group, while Legendary Games, and Rogue Genius are in the 3PP side of things.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I can't tell if you're trolling or straight up fucking retarded. Like honestly, what do you expect? Players who are used to the OGL to go look at the ORC and become deeply uncomfortable from it not being naked and obvious hypercapitalism?

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        IQ : 5

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Tabletop existed long before the OGL...
      God forbid someone make a game that isn't a D&D clone

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        You misunderstand. According to the new OGL ALL games belong to hasbro. Because the shit covered by the OGL is shit like "roll to hit", "leveling", "HP" and other generic junk. All the proprietary D&D stuff is covered by a different license. By claiming that everything in the OGL belongs to them, WotC is saying that all RPG terms belong to them.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >You misunderstand. According to the new OGL ALL games belong to hasbro. Because the shit covered by the OGL is shit like "roll to hit", "leveling", "HP" and other generic junk.
          >No dice.
          >No levels.
          >No HP.
          Blocks your path.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Blocks your path

            With a sign labeled “pretentious cocksuckery, this way!”

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >pretentious
              >the game where one of the sample characters is an anime catgirl brought to life by a lightning bolt that hit a movie theater

              It's artsy, but that's not at all the same thing as pretentious.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >calling anime "Japanese animation"
                That's practically a slur

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                It used to be more common to just call it Japanrze animation or japanimation back in the 80s and 90s. Remember that the term "anime" is literally just a shortened form of the English word animation and I Japanese it refers to all types of animation, even western animation.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >>No dice.
            >>No levels.
            >>No HP.
            >Blocks your path.

            Big whoop-de-do.
            >replace dice with ordinary playing cards
            >replace levels with skill advancement like a real rpg
            >replace idiotic HP with base flesh points + large pool of endurance points

            Game set match.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >nobody but NEETs with no money play because your sheets end up looking like pic related
              >Become known for being that one game that makes FATAL's Sheet look like an Index Card RPG.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >emotional status
                What the fuck

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          All the shit you're stating isn'tcopyrightable unless they're trying to trademark those individual words which they would need to file for you don't get those automatically.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            It doesn't fucking matter what you think is and is not copywritable. RPG rules content has never once been tested in court and no one is in a hurry to see a snap ruling by some dipshit judge who has never held dice with more then 6-sides before making decisions they don't understand the impact of. That is why we have these agreements. Everyone acts cool and enters a bargain of "we will all follow these rules of the road and not make any waves so the federal government doesn't come in and fuck it all up."

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            What is and isn't copyrightable on principle does not fucking matter. Disney and Hasbro itself have both proven that copyright and trademark protections mean nothing when you have your cases heard in a district where you've poured millions of dollars into the economy of.
            They've won blatantly illegal IP cases before and they will again. That's why Paizo decided to bow out of the class action and spearhead their ORC project.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I know this is bait but legally, as in proven in court, you can’t copyright mechanics. Those would be covered by patents and WotC waited to long to try and claim them

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Lmfao that would be even WORSE for hasbro because they now have to fight the entire fucking videogame industry.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Not really. Only if they had them agree to the OGL and many of them, such as KOTOR, had a different agreement that avoided using the OGL. This was done specifically so that game companies would need to get a new license when the old one was done and thus pay WotC again.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          all of the terms you specifically quoted are too commonplace and cannot be copyrighted. The ogl shit is just a vain attempt to grab cash. "generic junk" cannot be claimed legally.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Game rules can't be patented, because they are abstract processes. Only physical processes can be patented. The exact word for word phrasing of a rule can be copyrighted, but all one must do to avoid that is to write the rules in your own words.

          Here's some examples. WOTC can copyright the Symbol used on magic cards to represent the "Tap" action, because it's a (tiny) piece of art. They can trademark the word "Tap" in conjunction with that symbol and the game mechanic, because it is deeply intertwined with the gameplay. They CAN'T patent turning a card sideways to produce abstract resources in an abstract game. They can copyright the exact wording of the comprehensive rulebook which describes the "Tap" action.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            They literally patented turning a card sideways to produce abstract resources in an abstract game. It's the most infamously known board game patent.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >They literally patented turning a card sideways to produce abstract resources in an abstract game.
              No, they tried and failed to patent that.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                It's part of the patent for MtG. Now, it's obviously
                always been unenforceable, but it's technically there.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Okay, to be fully technically correct they patented the rules of Magic: The Gathering which includes a description of tapping. But the mechanic of tapping, turning a card sideways to generate an abstract resource, cannot be patented in itself 'unless' its specifically in the way MTG does it (which includes the specific term "tap" and the symbol).

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Lmfao that would be even WORSE for hasbro because they now have to fight the entire fucking videogame industry.

          I can't wait for Bandai Namco and Nintendo lawyers to destroy Hasbro

        • 4 weeks ago
          Awanama

          >According to the new OGL ALL games belong to hasbro. Because the shit covered by the OGL is shit like "roll to hit", "leveling", "HP" and other generic junk. All the proprietary D&D stuff is covered by a different license. By claiming that everything in the OGL belongs to them, WotC is saying that all RPG terms belong to them.
          Fuck
          Last stage of capitalism

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >though I would like to see the license itself before trumpeting it as a savior of tabletop
      That's going to be the make and break for it. But it looks like they're looking to have the lawyers themselves be involved (good or bad depending on how you view that) while letting the "OGL" of theirs be community "owned," and managed (they tout the Linux Foundation. Which basically... corpo donations there steer how Linux "evolves" in community and shit. Good/bad depending on how you view that).

      Remains to be seen if it'll replace the OGL, but given Kobald and other publishers are jumping on it, it'll probably be like the Linux foundation where the publishers will steer it, but try to not rock the boat so much to have people "fork" it and do their own OGL anew.

  2. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >to use ORC, you must port everything over to be compliant with PF2e. This includes elimination of words such as "race". It is "Ancestry".

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      ORC is system neutral and you have Kobold Press, Chaosium, and some other devs hopping on. It’s just a license that you can slap on a game to say certain aspects of it can be used by others. It’s probably just a standardized community content policy.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Sorry, your use of the term "race" is not standardize and doesn't comply with the ORC. Please standardize your content to ensure compliance with ORC guidelines

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          poor MAGA groomer, if you don't like it you can create your own licence.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          What is your point even?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      seethe and cope chud

  3. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >WotC tries to limit 3rd party content with 4e
    >spawns their biggest competitor Paizo and nearly goes out of business as a result
    >WotC tries the same thing several years later
    >spawns more actual competitors and Paizo puts out their own OGL to prevent it happening for the third time
    It's actually over.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Thank God. I'm tired of all the problematic shit in DnD. Embrace this timeline friendos.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Go back even further.
      >Hasbro doesn't like that WotC is making Dragon Magazine (and Dungeon Magazine) in house and eating into their profits.
      >Two people from WotC basically form a publishing house for it, and publish those magazines for 6 years.
      >Publishing house grows because it's monthly content that focuses solely on D&D
      >After the end of their publishing, they go on to write what would become the new norm for "modules"
      >All your stuff
      >Hasbro created their own new enemy.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Looking at their business history I've consistently wondered if Hasbro simply has no idea what they're doing, and only see short term gains.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          So basically Hasbro’s every corporation ever.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >It's actually over.
      Even better:
      >Hasbro tries to sell 60 RNG $1000 proxies to MtG folks
      >People balk because you can get 1,500 cards of your choice for literally $60 or so from Chinese printers
      >30 mins into Wizards offering, they pull it and go "SOLD OUT! THANKS FOR ORDERING! :)"
      >Only people with the $1,000 proxies are celebs like Post Malone
      >EVERYONE fucking hates the goddamn thing
      >Tournaments dry up (even more than post-pulling Standard)
      >Hasbro is downgraded in stocks because they keep fucking releasing sets RIGHT AFTER THE "LATEST" ONE FUCKING RELEASED A WEEK AGO.

      Hasbro is looking to fire sale Wizards within the year. Bookmark this post, because there is literally no reason for them to be fucking up this bad.

      (Beyond me cursing them for fucking over Android: Netrunner. My curse lays upon Wizards and Hasbro for seven times seven generations.)

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        A symptom of modern corporations.
        Profit line must go up. Not tomorrow. Not later today. Now. The shareholders demand it.
        But what if it collapses completely? Who cares, i'll have sold my shares by then. Probably.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Yeah, you got shareholders and suits at the top who just make their money then fuck off, leaving everyone else with the pieces. I can’t imagine a lot of people in WotC want this shit. I’m sure many of them joined the company because they like Magic or D&D but they get fucked over.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Lot of people are getting pretty short-sighted and forgetting the One D&D videos and all the WotC employees blabbering on about representation and how there's no more new editions and all kinds of other blatant lies. If they wanted D&D to be good, they've had decades to stop fucking it up. To write better content, to make more complete books, to create more interesting options and pack each release with lots of new toys for players to enjoy. Instead their releases have been anemic and many of them just retreads and poor recreations of old material.

            WotC employees wanted this scam to work too. Some will pretend they didn't see it coming or that it was a big surprise that Hasbro executives were aggressively pursuing more monetization, but that shit has been on the table for years now. They already have microtransactions and premium subs for a fucking character sheet website. They were ready to do far worse once their VTT was finally up and running.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >WotC employees wanted this scam to work too.
              Of course they did. They're all going to get fired now as Wizards hibernates the property.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Yeah the writing has been on the wall for a while now

              Fuck WotC

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                You do realize that it was like that when it was still under Fandom/Wikia don't you?
                It was basicallyu done so you didn't have to buy an adventure you'd never play for the Races/Spell/Magic Items/Monsters introduced in it.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                That shit has not been removed from Beyond. You can still buy individual stat blocks and magic items on that site right now and it shows no sign of being removed ever.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Nightmare fuel.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                The only thing I like with them trying to nickel and dime every little feature is that it shows just how shallow and poor value the books really are in terms of "content".

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Yeah, you got shareholders and suits at the top who just make their money then fuck off, leaving everyone else with the pieces. I can’t imagine a lot of people in WotC want this shit. I’m sure many of them joined the company because they like Magic or D&D but they get fucked over.

          I know this kind of thing has probably been happening for decades at this point but for some reason the squeezing by shareholders has really become noticeable the past few years. It does make me wonder if there's something they're trying to beat - trying to get enough money for that's coming up.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            It's because market saturation, there is no more spare money to go around but the shareholders keep screaming for more, so the company has to start cutting to find a way to make more out of nothing.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              I meant more in general, not just in this particular sphere. I guess because of the recession or economic downturn, maybe. The paranoid part of my brain likes to play up the idea of all the execs at the top trying to get as much money as possible NOW for some big event happening soon.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Nah, while I understand your perspective it's not as if there is some looming conspiracy they fear. Rather it's just unbridled avaricious greed, particularly as a kind of keep up with the joneses of
            >They made bleeding edge ridiculous profits why can't I
            They're the same human beans you and I are, which means they suffer the same FOMO fear. If you don't mind an NPR segment, https://www.marketplace.org/2016/08/17/smuckers/ - covers a company which explicitly bucks the trend and does so because it's still family owned. It's a great example of how the road to hell is paved with good intentions because you can get sold the bullshit lie that "Shareholder democracy" is better than a kind of aristocratic system like this.
            >The Smucker Company declined to comment. There is controversy around tenure voting: favoring long-term investors means discriminating against short-term investors, raising the question of shareholder democracy. It differs from the traditional one-share, one-vote system.

            There is no such thing as "Linux license". The kernel itself is licensed under GNU GPL v2.

            [...]
            If WotC can claim that the setting book is now retroactively under OGL 1.1, that would mean they can revoke the license and effectively take the setting for their own.

            I'm really suHispanicious how well the idea of
            >Haha we revoke this license now everything you made in the past is ours 🙂
            will hold up in court. I can see it being "We revoke this license now you cannot release anything of what you made" - that's textbook music license is gone so you have to remove the music from your game. But I've never heard anything where when an agreement is ended they are able to retroactively claim whatever you made with it. This would be like Adobe deciding to change their license and then making it that anything you made with adobe they have ownership over. I am sure adobe would LOVE to do that. But I cannot see any chance of that surviving even our crony court system.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Hasbro is looking to fire sale Wizards within the year.
        I think they were hoping to pump and spin out Wizards, but it's all gotten fucked for them.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >hasbro calling the shots in WOTC
          You sure hold a company in such high regards

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        good

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >7*7 generations
        >That is, 49 generations
        >Assuming a new generation every 18 or so years (probably closer to thirty) WotC will be cursed with this shit for the next eight to fourteen centuries
        Fuck.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >inb4 WOTC gets bought by Paizo

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      kind of reminds me of when Nintendo spawned their biggest competitor with Sony during n64/ps1 era.

  4. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Paizo
    they will absolutely have the same bullshit "muh racisms" clause in it as WoTC
    the same type of dilating danger hair "orcs are black people" types will be deciding what is "rayciss" or "offensive"

    better to go to court and quash this nonsense

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      oh, poor MAGA groomer, I'm so sorry for you

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      oh, poor MAGA groomer, I'm so sorry for you

      Please go away, both of you.

  5. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    If you're going to keep raiding this board please learn how to use the catalog

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Raiding
      Learn what that term means. I don't think we need a dozen active threads on the subject, but it is a big deal and people do want to talk about it. Wish the janitors would do their fucking jobs correctly for once, but that's too much to ask.

  6. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Paizo site is down where I am, do we have the language of the license yet? I am cautiously optimistic, but because >paizo I am concerned that the very broad and unexplored "bigotry" clauses of OGL 1.1 may find their way into ORC. I would like to be wrong on this, but holding my praise until I see the document.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It's still in the works at the moment. The only thing they posted was an announcement and some information about getting Chaosium and Kobold Press and some others to team up with them. Pretty much everyone that WotC was intending to squeeze for money just banded together and said Fuck you to the OGL entirely.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Fair enough. Again, I don't care about the morality of any company involved in this, I care if it is a rigorous license that can't be revoked based on the whims of the day. I am cautiously optimistic that safe harbour will indeed mean safe harbour, and Paizo making that call would redeem them quite a bit in my eyes.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >I care if it is a rigorous license that can't be revoked based on the whims of the day
          That's something they explicitly mention in the writeup, they want to put it with a 3rd party nonprofit and its intended to be eternal and irrevocable

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            That is why I am cautiously optimistic. Optimistic because if it ends up on the desk of a legal practice that manages the affairs of a nonprofit they tend to prefer to deal with contracts and licenses that don't have them chasing up loose ends constantly, cautiously because you only have to look at the rise of CoC in nonprofits of the open source community to know that there are some who will try and inject morality clauses in who is allowed to contribute to graphics design programs and shit.
            I genuinely think that one thing that the RPG community SHOULD be able to unite on is that baking in morality policing measures for community content is highly dangerous in our field. You might be fine making them gays suffer, but do you want somebody coming in and saying that you can't publish content where goblins are an inherently evil race? You may want to bash the fash out of the hobby, but do you want another Satanic Panic taking hold and destroying your lesbian succubus project?
            An agnostic ORC with an understanding that any material produced under said ORC only represents the views of the creators of said material is best for everybody, and future proofs the license against the whims of a capricious body politic. I remain cautious as I am not sure that Paizo has enough forward thinking people to realise that their side may not hold the public discussion in their court forever, but hopefully some of the greybeards involved with the company have the sense to ensure this document is done right and not done "right".

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              This. What if I want a setting where Slavery is common place. It isn't necessarily something the general populous is "ok" with, but it is legal and it has proven to have kept violent crime down. Course there are going to be people that have been sold into Slavery even not having committed any crime, or simply because they were from a rival nation. But since slavery as enforced was not a forever state and can only be indentured for 10 years at max, it's been left alone. I would want to be secure in the knowledge that I could publish something like this. I would do it with the hope that players would want to question the system in place. That they could have adventures dismantling it should they choose. There would be every possibility that they would try to say that such a setting only encourages people to think of slavery as ok and that it makes little the struggles of those that were under the throws of slavery. This sanitized world view isn't what one should hope for in a "free and creative" community.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Exactly. Using your own example of slavery, games I have GMed in the past have included ones where the party have taken on slaves themselves (technically bondsmen are indentured spoils of war, but a sufficiently liberal view on the definition of slavery would see it as grossly inappropriate) and also games that have been set in locations going through the process of abolition. It is not inconceivable that the abolition game could be deemed "inappropriate" by a market that felt that the grey morality questions of how to go about the process of abolition was inappropriate ground games to go (I think of the VtM gay death camps kerfuffle from a while back) but the current mob at the bully pulpit would not take kindly to bondsmen either.
                I do not think that somebody should not be allowed to publish a game because I disagree with it, on a personal level I do not like games that tread into the "invoke real world mythological demons" territory (not personally religious but I don't like encouraging people to invoke things that generations advised should be left alone as it feels like a "play stupid games, win stupid prizes" prospect to me) but I have always occupied the position of "I just won't buy this/play this because it isn't for me". I think that those games have a place in the ORC, I also think that a 2nd edition of The Book of Erotic Fantasy has a place, I also think that Billy Bob Press's Sons of the South: Plantation Management supplement has a place. None of these things should be rejected the right to make use of an open license, nobody should feel obliged to buy it or use its content, but nobody should be allowed to censure people for publishing content that they don't like.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Thing is that thgere probably will be that stuff in there as a general point to prevent the Book of Erotic Fantasy, or the attempts at RAHOWA: The Game to come down the line, sure us fags over here at Ganker might roll our eyes or be on board, but your general person will see it and claim (whatever system) is doing this or that... hell we do it here all the time, you know that chart about the various who can produce offspring with who, how many think it's an official WotC product? It wasn't it was from the above said book. Or just how many controversies (that one book that did the whole ancestry thing, that whole book of disabilities, or the combat wheelchair) get laid right on WotC's doorstep despite the only contact they actually had was OGL 1.0(a), OGL 1.0(a),and a passing mention in an outside source as to why a flat dungeon was done in one book.
              Morality clauses are in there to protect the brands underneath it from getting shit smeared, Nobody wants to be the company that has to deal with some edgy 23 year old 4chanak making their FATAL 1e without the need for a program to make characters and it gets laid on your doorstep because you said, "the ORC says I have to let you do this".

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                That is why I am hopeful that Paizo very clearly washing their hands of responsibility upfront means that we aren't going to have a morality clause. I think that RAHOWA: The Game should be able to sit on a shelf beside the Combat Wheelchair supplement beside the Car Lesbians /tg/ RPG. Even if you currently agree with what is morally reprehensible, the opinion of the kingmakers may indeed change in the next 10 years (as they did in the last 10) and then you will find that the same clauses that you built to guide the community to "do better" are now being used to force you to "do better" and do something that you personally find unacceptable.
                From what Paizo have said, they want this license to be system and community agnostic, and future proofed beyond the time that anyone who wrote it is even involved in gaming anymore. If that is the case, you have to look beyond the current squabbles and make a document that is not beholden to the whims of the day. Let individual publishing houses have their own codes of conduct that mandate Halal approved mechanics or insist on pronouns as a vital part of the character sheet or force darkies to have -2INT -1WIS +2STR +1DEX. Don't put any such mandates in the license, especially not broad "we can revoke the license from those who we find inappropriate", because doing that is building a prison that you may one day find yourself interred within.
                I truly think that the best solution is to include a clause within the ORC stating something like "..any content published under this License represents the views of the authors and publishers of said content, and not the views or opinions of any other groups, individuals and corporate entities not involved in the production and publishing of said content. Use of material from other ORC licensed works within this product does not equate to an endorsement by the authors of this product to the views of the referenced product, except insofar as said ORC material is reproduced here."

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              You’re absolutely right about the rank hypocrisy of DND trying to push the morality police bullshit. They’ve become what they once hated. It’s over

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Yeah, I think even if D&D sits pretty as the main market I’ll be pretty happy if all these 3rd parties do their own thing that people still buy and use

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Best outcome is that WotC shits the bed all the way up to the "One D&D" release, their VTT sucks shit, and no one wants to work for or with them, and on top of that, the ORC is even better and we enter a new golden age of RPG publishing.

  7. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    So what do you think saves/makes Hasbro more money at this point? Possibly winning on the revocation in court and going full scorched earth in lawsuits against anyone that didn't pull their publishing in time or dropping the revocation entirely, apologizing for the whole affair, and trying to get people to continue to trust them and give a shit about D&D?

    If they lose in court this was just corporate suicide and all they succeeded in was costing Paizo some legal fees.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      There's a good chance that WotC shows up with a revised, slightly less shitty OGL and they hobble ahead with all of their plans to monetize the fuck out of D&D and none of it goes as they planned either. This is why it's particularly necessary to encourage everyone that this is not about bullying WotC into being less shitty. It's about abandoning WotC permanently, because they don't deserver anyone's business.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I cant imagine any other reason to delay the announcement of OGL 1.1 (an already completed document set to go into effect TODAY, friday the 13th) if not to alter it in some minor way to make Wizards Cock riders say "Okay. it's still bad but not AS bad, see? Time to renew my DnDBeyond Subscription :)"
        Beyond will never see a penny from me.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >"Okay. it's still bad but not AS bad, see? Time to renew my DnDBeyond Subscription :)"
          It is every RPG player's solemn duty to bully the shit out of anyone who makes excuses for why it's okay to keep giving WotC money. At minimum, it should be so shameful that no one will openly admit to or talk about playing D&D in public. At maximum, it should be so shameful that no one wants to have anything to do with WotC.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >There's a good chance that WotC shows up with a revised, slightly less shitty OGL
        Yeah that literally doesn't matter everyone's moving to ORC going forward. The revocation is the important part because it's basically pic related.

        Only idiots will sign onto 1.1 no matter what it says.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Only idiots will sign onto 1.1 no matter what it says.

          I could unironically automate this. Set the AI just right so that it produces splat book with just the most fucking nonsensical shit. Establish it under the New Open Gaming License, and make a shitty store that no one will use because I never bothered to set up the website to even buy the pdfs, and start to email WoTC invoices for my collection of 10,000 randomly generated splatbooks that made a grand total of profit of $0 this month.

          And they will have to pay an employee to waste time on it

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I thought about that too.
            >Sign OGL 1.1
            >create the most heinous unapologetically racist setting imaginable. 'buy' it, and show WotC the receipts
            >WotC takes it from me, the OGL says it's their property
            >"Wizards of the Coasts new splatbook has fantasy race called 'Niggorks'? Why this company is being accused of racial undertones. More News at 11:00."

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Wizards then proceeds to discontinue it, spin doctoring it as striking a great blow for social justice. You've done little but given them a chance to score some good PR and "prove" that "Our way works."
              There is one winning move here, to take your ball and go home. Give the bastards nothing.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                That would never fly in the current twittersphere. they'll call it "a win for social justice" but none of the people who consoom media for a living will ever be able to look past the fact that. even for a day, it was a purchasable option.
                This is to say that I believe you're right. give them nothing and let them roll around in the grave they buried.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >10,000 randomly generated splatbooks that made a grand total of profit of $0 this month.
            lol one month make an 'error' of $100 or so, then demand wotc return it to you under penalty. The amount of money lost will not warrant the amount of time people worked to get it to you

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              You need gross revenue of 750k for WotC to get a cut. Which may sound reasonably generous until you realize they're talking about gross revenue and not something sensible like profit.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >sensible like profit.
                thats stupid anon. Company has as big profit as it wants, gross revenue on the other hand is hard to fuck with

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                It's 25% cut, anon. Effectively you can either turn a profit or be successful, not both.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                anon if the deciding factor of when WoTC gets their cut was profit, they would never get anything, As i said, profit can be as small as you want it to be. Gross revenue cannot. turning profit also doesnt really have to have anything to do with making money

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                They'll never get anything anyway because no sane person will agree to OGL 1.1

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >
                maybe but thats not the point of the discussion we about profit/gross revenue

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                It is the entire point because that's what I was talking about in the post which started this discussion.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                no its not. You said they should measure profit instead of gross revenue and i explained to you why they shouldnt.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                No I said "Which may sound reasonably generous until you realize they're talking about gross revenue"

                Take it in the context, fucktard

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                you are right, i ve read it wrong. sorry anon, i was talking about something else

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                The point of nuOGL is to force smaller publishers into custom licenses or get destroyed. And in that custom license WotC will demand a chunk of your IP.
                Plus the added benefit of potentially destroying a future Paizo or preventing criticism if they get too uppity.

                Of course a fucking Microsoft executive would try this shit.
                This is how Microsoft operated for decades.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I'm confused, is the cut 25% of profits, gross revenue over 750k or just gross revenue?

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                No royalty until 750k gross per annum is reached. From 50k upwards you must report earnings to WotC each financial year. Revenue above 750k gross carries a 25% royalty (20% on kickstarter, because kickstarter takes a 5% cut and negotiated this with WotC).
                Example:
                >Your splatbook is a massive success, and you generate 1.25M USD in sales in a financial year. The first 750k is not charged any royalties. From the remaining 500k, WotC demands 120k as a royalty.
                Now, if your profit margins are over 25%, this means that you make a good profit to 750k and a (noticeably) smaller profit afterwards. The issue is that the majority of products don't run close to a 25% margin on gross, anywhere from a 3-15% margin is more common. After 750k per annum, you will likely be selling your product at a loss. This does not harm limited run products, but as the anon said above, you can turn a profit or be successful, not both.

  8. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Can someone explain to a smooth-brain like myself what function use this licence even has? They keep describing it as "System-Neutral"... but the whole point of the OGL was to allow other creatives to play with the baseline D&D systems to create their own works.

    How does do anything if there isn't any system associated with the licence?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Basically it's an overarching OGL for soignatories. Meaning you're under ORC you can make something for Pathfinder AGE, Black Flag, or all of them at the same time. The OGL isn't the SRD, the OGL is basically you can use this SRD under this liscence to create things.
      What the ORC does is basically the same thing but with the SRDs of many companies.
      To put it one way you'll still have the Black Flag SRD, the PF2 SRD, the M&M SRD, and the AGE SRD but you can publish using them under the ORC (might actually lead to an odd 2PP situation where Paizo makes shit for Fantasy AGE, Kobold Press Makes Shit for Pathfinder, CHaosium makes crap for Black Flag).
      Think of it like the NWA, but you can't really have the WWWF break off and make their own belt, then come back and buy off the territories and have people sign exclusive contracts to them years later.

      It's not even Paizo's, they just announced it, currently it's Aurora Law Services until the people signing onto it find a non-profit to hold it.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Technically that's how the OGL works too, you kind of have it backwards, you make an SRD, and then in that SRD you say that it can be used under the terms of the OGL. You don't have to use Wizard's SRD, you can make your own and then other people can use yours through the OGL.
        In that respect, the ORC is only really different in the ownership aspect over the license itself.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          This is why Paizo continued to use the OGL, they wanted to be able to have people make stuff that used their system too. They were completely free to make Pathfinder stuff, using the D&D OGL, because Paizo used the OGL. It was a two way street for them.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Pretty much, and is sort of reversing which way it goes, it's a System Neutral OGL for the people who sign onto it.
          It's pretty much a GNU OGL so people can use their Distro SRDs to make a fork, or a program or whatever.

          That shit has not been removed from Beyond. You can still buy individual stat blocks and magic items on that site right now and it shows no sign of being removed ever.

          I'm saying it was around before Beyond was bought by WotC so it['s not exactly a microtransaction since you could just buy the book for cheaper if you want to actually use the adventure or whatever.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            It's still a fucking microtransaction even if there's a more cost effective alternative. You can buy one character for 6$ or buy the season pass and get 5 characters for 20$! It's still FUCKING MICROTRANSACTIONS.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              More like you can buy the character/skill/whatever small thing you want, or buy the entire ex-pac and get it included.
              And it's been there since the Wikia days, before WotC came in and bought out Beyond.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              How does this even work with a pen and paper game? Wtf

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Yup, the OGL is the base OS. A companies SRD is then the distro and the system is then the program being run. Which is the way that the creators of D&D wanted it to be. D&D wasn't supposed to be the game itself, it was the OS. The game only existed when it had people to craft a story, writing the 'code' so to speak.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              I would say it's actually closer to the GNU license than the Linux one though.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Linux is under GNU GPL.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I mean the ORC is more like the GNU GPL, while the Pathfinder SRD would be under the Linux License.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                There is no such thing as "Linux license". The kernel itself is licensed under GNU GPL v2.

                The fact that CR has published another setting book independently since the setting book and adventure they published through WoTC argues pretty strongly that CR retains the rights to their IP.

                If WotC can claim that the setting book is now retroactively under OGL 1.1, that would mean they can revoke the license and effectively take the setting for their own.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                They wouldn't be able to stop Matt from doing anything with the setting, but it would allow WotC to publish the setting with no royalties given. It doesn't deprive Matt, but trying to publish anything when you have a big corporation also publishing in the same setting makes things rather difficult. That is why it is a sub-license. They honestly thought if they tried to frame it is "we own it, but not really, but actually." then people would agree to it.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >If WotC can claim that the setting book is now retroactively under OGL 1.1
                Revoking 1.0 doesn't making people who were part of it under 1.1. That's not how this works. That's not how any of this works.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >If WotC can claim that the setting book is now retroactively under OGL 1.1, that would mean they can revoke the license and effectively take the setting for their own.
                And I can almost assure you they will try to do that, because Critical Role has been a money-printing scheme for them. They are not letting that go. So they will either strongarm Mercer into compliance or try to yoink the whole thing and do a Top Gear maneuver if Mercer is not agreeable.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I would honestly love to see them stick their dick in that particular bear-trap.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >mercer is too woke sjw to publicly comply to freedom restricting OGL
                >refuses on twitter, calls the critters to unite
                >mercer gets sued to the shadow realm. Crit Role team disbands as they have no funds left
                >WotC dies, having sacrificed their golden goose in a final attempt for all of it's eggs
                Sounds like a win-win scenario for /tg/

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                if they have a brain in their skull wotc will try to give Mercer a sweetheart deal. toylines, videogame, help getting a movie etc

                If anything, Mercer is a doormat, who will agree to anything to avoid trouble. So I can see him pretending nothing is happening.
                Remember that GOG/Thronebreaker sponsorship deal he had with CDPR?

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                if they have a brain in their skull wotc will try to give Mercer a sweetheart deal. toylines, videogame, help getting a movie etc

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                They probably will. Mercer will get to continue at 5% royalties, but Critical Roll will end up the face of D&D. Mercer will also be obligated to say that the OGL is a good thing for the community going forwards and that everyone else was simply scared of change. The TTRPG landscape will split between people that actually play and those that just watch Critical Roll. Hasbro will get pennies for dollars and continue to be an ass going forwards and will cancel Critical Roll after two more campaigns. Matt will complain about his unfair treatment at the hands of WotC after he has no legal obligation to suck their dick and will try to get back into everyone's good graces when most have already moved on.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >If WotC can claim that the setting book is now retroactively under OGL 1.1,
                But they can't. You have to agree to using OGL 1.1, just as you had to agree to use OGL 1.0a.
                They can discontinue OGL 1.0a, but in reality that would have little effect on a case like Mercer who absolutely can afford a lenghty legal battle if necessary and thats all OGL EVER DID. The overwhelming majority of things covered by the OGL are things that 'cannot' be licensed to begin with. Its a declaration of truce where WotC said they won't try to ruin you with litigiation.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Mercer who absolutely can afford a lenghty legal battle if necessary
                Can he really? People who are (allegedly) lawyers have been saying that fighting this in court would be around 500k starting.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                He can literally crowdfund it. Good Boy Mercer vs. evil greedy Hasbro?
                He'll make a profit on it.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                It wouldn't be Mercer footing the bill, it would be Critical Role Productions, LLC, and it's actually Travis who would have the final call as CEO I think.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        So, in the most insane case, technically speaking, there'd be nothing stopping WotC from abandoning OGL 1.1 and instead signing onto the ORC?
        While it's unlikely, the goodwill they'd get from that would be absurd.

  9. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    What the fuck does this even mean for companies like Owlcat?

    Can they just ORC future Pathfinder games without paying royalties to Paizuri?
    I somehow doubt that.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >What the fuck does this even mean for companies like Owlcat?
      Nothing changes. The setting(s) will still be proprietary, and that's the main reason anyone would use Pathfinder (or Rogue Trader, or D&D for that matter) for video game.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I thought the main reason you'd use Pathfinder or D&D for a setting are the mechanics? It's basically "play a WRPG with the splatbooks" for people who can't find any sort of group. I can't think of anything particularly interesting or worthwhile in either game's settings. Like, people are nostalgic for Baldur's Gate DESPITE being a D&D setpiece.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Literally all D&D-related vidya uses one (or more than one, in case of DDO) of the official settings. Although I guess it would be more accurate to say that the main reason is brand recognition, but the setting is a big part of that and you can see that in the marketing. Owlcat games didn't make any generic Pathfinder games, but Kingmaker and Wrath of the Righteous are very specifically set in golarion and heavily use their namesake adventure paths (which also don't fall under OGL, only the rules do). Same for the upcoming Rogue Trader game: It's not a space merchant game that happens to be set in 40k universe, it's a 40k game.

  10. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Jesus Christ, its getting late in burgerland and Paizo's site is still blown out from attempted traffic.
    Also their announcement tweet has amazing stats if you consider anything else they ever tweeted.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      [ ] the website is sleeping
      [X] wrong IT'S DEADDDDD

  11. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    So am I right in understanding that what we know of OGL 1.1 is just a leak, and not necessarily "in the pipeline" so to speak? My understanding was that it was an internal version sent to some journalist and not something that they were definitely implementing.
    Obviously if they spent all the time and money on making it they were planning on trying to implement it, but it's not like "OGL 1.1 will go into effect on July 3rd" or something. Is that right?

    Everyone is so panicked I can't get a straight answer from just google.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >So am I right in understanding that what we know of OGL 1.1 is just a leak, and not necessarily "in the pipeline" so to speak? My understanding was that it was an internal version sent to some journalist and not something that they were definitely implementing.
      It was practically the final draft.
      All they had to do was fill contact info in various spots and it would be complete.

      Multiple sources confirm they were about to launch the thing literally right before the leak and only pulled back because of people getting pissed.
      It would have gone into effect pretty quick.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It was not in pipeline. The OGL was due out to be shown on the 6th and everyone would have had a week to agree to it or no longer able to publish D&D works. Many people were presented it and companies like Kobold Press have confirmed that they looked at it and declined it. Kickstarter agreed to it and they even argued to have a lesser cut, a 20% royalty fee instead, this is why the final draft has 20-25%, because the original was only 25 and some were able to get a better deal.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The leak implied that it was going to go into effect TODAY. It was not leaked by a journo, but by a publisher who got sent it with expectations to sign it on a ridiculously short notice. That seems to no longer be the case, but it was how the original leaker described it.
      >captcha TYWTAT
      captca thanks the twat that leaked.

  12. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The age of the OGL is over the day of the ORC has begun.

  13. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Man I think people need to realize that even Paizo says they don't own it, just that they basically using their connections with the guy who made the OGL (both versions), and the law firm that no doubt has a lot of the Seattle Tabletop Publisher market as clients (which has people who helped hammer out those documents) and until a non-profit is found, said law firm will act as the people holding said document.
    And before anyb9ody thinks it's weird that Paizo is one of their clients, I would imagine Green Ronin and Kobold Press are likely also clients. Pretty much due to geographic closeness, one of if not the only law firms in their area that deals in contract law specific to gaming, The very incestuous way the Seattle entertainment scene works, oh yeah, the actual office for Gen Con is a couple doors down.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Kobold Press, Green Ronin, Legendary Games, Chaosium and Rogue Genius have been announced as being on board already.
      https://gamerant.com/pathfinder-paizo-new-ogl-orc-dungeons-dragons-controversy/

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Like I don't think people on this board in it for the RPGs realize how fucking close (in the American sense) a lot of tabletop shit is around here. Like You don't even need to get on freeway to get from WotC's office to Green Ronin's and it's the same with Paizo and KP, and you have people who pretty much worked with all four at some point in their offices.
        Oh and still find it hilarious that Azora Law is pretty much a couple doors down from Gen Con's offices, that's like prime real estate right there.

  14. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I am just waiting for Matt Mercer to spin that whole OGL clusterfuck as "a good thing for the community".

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Mercer and his crew literally cut their teeth on Pathfinder and despite critical role's reliance on 5e has no other relationships to the company beyond the dndbeyond sponsorship and the officially backed books in the D&D canon.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Aren't they offically WotC employees right now? I know at least one of their players works as a community manager there.
        Even if, with how balls deep Mercer in WotC business, they will find a way to fuck him over if he steps out of line.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I'm willing to bet they got at least a few WotC staff members in the studio regularly though I don't think any of the originally cast that's there are employees for wotc, what with Critical Role being it's own company. Even then they /do/ still play games outside of D&D that they have streamed which would imply that if push came to shove they could absolutely drop D&D in protest.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >which would imply that if push came to shove they could absolutely drop D&D in protest.
            And then WotC would simply yoink their setting that IS a pretty big part of their revenue and they would have to start from the ground up. What are they going to play? Warhammer?

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              they just go back to playing pathfinder, continue to play in the setting they made for it. you also forget the royalties from THE FUCKING AMAZON STREAMING SHOOW YOU IDIOT.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >the show
                That would be WotC property now, because it uses the now WotC-owned setting. That's exactly what the OGL 1.1 does

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                this assumes wizards is involved with the show, my dude. that particular subject brushes up entirely into other legal shit I am not knowledgable enough to know.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I assume it works similarly to what GW pulled with fan creations, "it uses some vague references to our IP, it's our now or else".

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Their setting was based on 4e which was NOT an OGL game.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                If was based on Pathfinder, then made a transition into 5e, now it's an official WotC product, with books and everything.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Why so bald?
                Also thread theme: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whxcq4I0kAo

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Eh, I'll just continue to play Warhammer Fantasy RPG/Dark Heresy/V20.
                You think The Dark Eye will get fully translated at some point?

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >You think The Dark Eye will get fully translated at some point?
                Whaling Simulator 2022? Why play a game where you pay 30€ for an empty box?
                It's not even the best German Fantasy RPG (that would be Midgard).

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Sell me on Midgard. Didn't have the opportunity to play it. Is it in English?

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                It's currently only available in German. But next year, they will release a new edition under Pegasus (of Shadowrun and Cthulhu fame), so a translation might be possible.
                It's class and ability based. There are levels, but you can freely increase you skills (with costs depending on your class).
                It's base system is pretty similar to d20, but they did so about two decades earlier. It has its own setting, Midgard which is a kitchen sink setting of historic earth, but can be used for homebrewed settings easily.
                There will be setting changes due to switching to Pegasus next year.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Thanks, I'll look into it. I've been looking for a fantasy alternative to DnD/Pathfindee for ages now.
                Is 5th Edition not in English? Or am I thinking about something else?

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Which 5th edition? Midgard or Dark Eye?
                There's the Midgard Setting for D&D5, but that's something else (the German translation of the Kobold Press Midgard is called Mythgard). The Midgard RPG has been translated into Danish 30 years ago, but there has never been an English version.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I see, so I have been thinking about something else, namely the Kobold Press one.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous
              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >digits status: witnessed.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Theorizing about that kind of thing is pointless, we don't know how the deals CR made with WotC divide up ownership or who gets what in case of a breakup.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I guess WotC has better lawyers.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                The fact that CR has published another setting book independently since the setting book and adventure they published through WoTC argues pretty strongly that CR retains the rights to their IP.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Matt "Published Tal Dorei through a 3PP" Mercer
        >Matt "Had to change a deity's name because we originally used Pathfinder" Mercer
        >Matthew "Sure Travis, you can have a Deadlands Campaign" Mercer
        >M. "Introduces his fans to other RPGs" Mercer

        That is why I am hopeful that Paizo very clearly washing their hands of responsibility upfront means that we aren't going to have a morality clause. I think that RAHOWA: The Game should be able to sit on a shelf beside the Combat Wheelchair supplement beside the Car Lesbians /tg/ RPG. Even if you currently agree with what is morally reprehensible, the opinion of the kingmakers may indeed change in the next 10 years (as they did in the last 10) and then you will find that the same clauses that you built to guide the community to "do better" are now being used to force you to "do better" and do something that you personally find unacceptable.
        From what Paizo have said, they want this license to be system and community agnostic, and future proofed beyond the time that anyone who wrote it is even involved in gaming anymore. If that is the case, you have to look beyond the current squabbles and make a document that is not beholden to the whims of the day. Let individual publishing houses have their own codes of conduct that mandate Halal approved mechanics or insist on pronouns as a vital part of the character sheet or force darkies to have -2INT -1WIS +2STR +1DEX. Don't put any such mandates in the license, especially not broad "we can revoke the license from those who we find inappropriate", because doing that is building a prison that you may one day find yourself interred within.
        I truly think that the best solution is to include a clause within the ORC stating something like "..any content published under this License represents the views of the authors and publishers of said content, and not the views or opinions of any other groups, individuals and corporate entities not involved in the production and publishing of said content. Use of material from other ORC licensed works within this product does not equate to an endorsement by the authors of this product to the views of the referenced product, except insofar as said ORC material is reproduced here."

        See, once again the problem is that no matter what it'll get laid back to them (see examples used and realize not even /tg/ is immune), the problem is that you honestly think that the RAHOWA: The Game would have been acceptable a decade ago, or even 30 years ago, but son, even back then a RAHOWA game would get you "cancelled" in all but the most sundown of sundown towns in the South. Hell 20 years ago FATAL 1e was put on the block not just for its shit mechanics, but for all the fucking shit in it, and holy fuck did WotC actually receive blowback for the Book of Erotic Fantasy. If anything the morlity codes will basically be done to nip the sort of shit that it seems culture warriors on one side want to "bring back to tabletop gaming" that were already looked at funny in the 90s and by the 00s were considered shit that just wasn't cool.
        Paizo, Green Ronin, Kobold Press, Chaosium, et al. could wash their hands up front, but they'd still recieve blowback from the general public for Pierdolony Dupek's "Guide to Fantasy Races (Pathfinder Compatible)" having Neegors who look like your average 1940s blackface savage Africans who eat fried chicken and watermelon and when they'yre not lazy, they're busy raping an pillaging..Or Harry Cumer's "Guide to Fantasy Brothels (Black Flag Compatible)" Having Hardcore Porn as the images while having Anal Tightness as an added mechanic.
        Basically they can wash their hands up front all they want, but the shit will still end up on their doorstep and they'll have to be the ones cleaning up the messes of those fags.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          what the fuck are you on about

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            The guy I was having a discussion with was wanting no morality clause ie the ability to strip a 3pp of the protections of the ORC, because he honestly seems to think having language that says it's only on the individual publisher and not they company that owns the system they're making it for, and I'm pointing out that it wouldn't matter because even /tg/ and various other places that have tabletop games as their whole community can't seem to differentiate company that made a questionable (either redpilled or woke) splat or public homebrew and the parent company of what it was made for.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I don't think that RAHOWA: The game would have been acceptable 50 years ago, that was not my point. My point is that I can conceive of a world where RAHOWA: The Game IS acceptable and also a good many where it is not. I can conceive of a world where Sword Lesbians is acceptable and a good many where it is not (I would even argue that it is not currently acceptable in several markets). I don't think that the power to exclude a venture aiming to use the license in its intended state should be baked into the license, I think that the power to exclude a product from sale should be exercised by publishers, points of sale and customers themselves. The danger with these clauses is that you assume that the world will always continue as you assume it is. If such a clause were baked into a hypothetical 1980s OGL, any games referencing demons, evil triumphing or being a protagonist force and any explicit sexual content would have been stripped of the license for the sake of the health of the industry if nothing else.
          If you read what I am posting above you would see that I am praising Paizo's decision to palm the responsibility of maintaining the license to an external law firm, and then to a suitable nonprofit when one becomes available. I think that this is good as it gives that specific air gap between Paizo and the ORC that Wizards have never had with the OGL. I think it opens the ability to not have to police WHO uses the license, but instead choose who that is using the license you wish to associate your company with.
          If they truly want the license to outlive even their company, it must not have clauses that inevitably tie it back to their company in content policing. Such a clause is exactly what gives approval to everything they don't pursue. Call me an optimist but I say let people publish RAHOWA and Sword Lesbians and (the infinitely superior) Car Lesbians and The Book of Erotic Fantasy and the Combat Wheelchair Supplement and let us decide what we want.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >RAHOWA
            what does rahowa mean these days? because i dont think you boys mean the old meaning

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Racial Holy War, RAHOWA: The Game has been used as a catch all term forever for "highly stereotypical race war game".

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                so it is the old meaning lol. i thought its some new zoomer word and it caught me off guard

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Nah, all good. I think that the discussion you ducked in on is two (relatively) greybeards each talking to each other on a board where they are used to talking to grasshoppers. I actually agree with a lot of concerns the other bloke has, I just think that the license itself is the wrong place to put CoC type morality clauses if you want an "open" license, you place that in the corporate license to use specific content that your publisher holds the copyrights and trademarks on. If someone wanted to do a Greyhawk splatbook, they should probably have their license dependent on not including shit that will paint WotC in a negative light. Same with an adventure in Golarion for Pathfinder. I personally think that you have to play by the rules of the rights holder for settings and IPs, but you shouldn't have to pander to the opinions of a capricious set of "industry leaders" to create your own content within an open framework. It is not their problem if you make something fucking silly, it is your problem, but they also shouldn't be ABLE to make it their problem.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >. If someone wanted to do a Greyhawk splatbook, they should probably have their license dependent on not including shit that will paint WotC in a negative light
                i thought thats on OGL already? Didnt htey have the OGL part of rules and lore and the copyrighted?

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Correct. The OGL covers mechanical rules within the SRD and any mechanics published in other documents released under OGL. Lore can be released under OGL but can also be withheld under copyright, and in that case it is individually able to be licensed out by the rights holders.
                This is what I am getting at with the ORC. It should not have a morality clause because there isn't going to be an issue with somebody making "Golarion but everyone is racist", they are going to make "snowflake world but everyone is racist" for "RPG but no girls allowed". Further, it means that things that you publish under the ORC (so not your lore, you restrict that, but your mechanics) can be used by others if it is good with no concern about the source. If those dang racists actually hit on a great limb based damage resolution system, you can pull the damage modelling from RAHOWA and not sign off on all of the stuff around it, and they can't stop you from putting it in BASH THE FASH ADVENTURE. Similarly, if somebody wants to adapt the mechanics of a !notDrMoreau game to make a Corruption of Champions transformation fetish game, they can do that and it doesn't reflect on one or the other.
                This is what I am getting at. While I personally don't like morality clauses on principle, I fully understand including them to protect your copywritten work. An OGL/ORC is not about your copywritten work, it is about providing safe harbour to employ mechanics from other products without fear of spurious lawfare. Morality clauses should not disqualify anyone from said safe harbour as it weakens the license for all.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                this whole new OGL thing is very supicious to me. When my table moved to DnD the OGL seemed insanely generous. Sure, i dont like antiracism and that whole thing, but to be simply allowed to make material and keep whole profit...
                I wonder if the main part of the outcry is that critical role and other companies like it have giant social media presence.
                Did anyone make comprehensive tldr why is it bad for my table?

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Nah, all good. I think that the discussion you ducked in on is two (relatively) greybeards each talking to each other on a board where they are used to talking to grasshoppers. I actually agree with a lot of concerns the other bloke has, I just think that the license itself is the wrong place to put CoC type morality clauses if you want an "open" license, you place that in the corporate license to use specific content that your publisher holds the copyrights and trademarks on. If someone wanted to do a Greyhawk splatbook, they should probably have their license dependent on not including shit that will paint WotC in a negative light. Same with an adventure in Golarion for Pathfinder. I personally think that you have to play by the rules of the rights holder for settings and IPs, but you shouldn't have to pander to the opinions of a capricious set of "industry leaders" to create your own content within an open framework. It is not their problem if you make something fucking silly, it is your problem, but they also shouldn't be ABLE to make it their problem.

            Correct. The OGL covers mechanical rules within the SRD and any mechanics published in other documents released under OGL. Lore can be released under OGL but can also be withheld under copyright, and in that case it is individually able to be licensed out by the rights holders.
            This is what I am getting at with the ORC. It should not have a morality clause because there isn't going to be an issue with somebody making "Golarion but everyone is racist", they are going to make "snowflake world but everyone is racist" for "RPG but no girls allowed". Further, it means that things that you publish under the ORC (so not your lore, you restrict that, but your mechanics) can be used by others if it is good with no concern about the source. If those dang racists actually hit on a great limb based damage resolution system, you can pull the damage modelling from RAHOWA and not sign off on all of the stuff around it, and they can't stop you from putting it in BASH THE FASH ADVENTURE. Similarly, if somebody wants to adapt the mechanics of a !notDrMoreau game to make a Corruption of Champions transformation fetish game, they can do that and it doesn't reflect on one or the other.
            This is what I am getting at. While I personally don't like morality clauses on principle, I fully understand including them to protect your copywritten work. An OGL/ORC is not about your copywritten work, it is about providing safe harbour to employ mechanics from other products without fear of spurious lawfare. Morality clauses should not disqualify anyone from said safe harbour as it weakens the license for all.

            I think our main impasse here is that you're coming at it from a theoretical point of view of let the consumers decide because theoretically they won't buy something, where the actual damage to the game systems from bad press. While I'm coming at it from a more grounded real world approach where, these things can and will come back to bite the ass of the bigger name instead of the actual creator. Your point is that The Book of Erotic Fantasy, Combat Wheelchair, Limitless Heroes, and Cultures and Ancestries should have died in the court of public opinion and you're right they pretty much died in the court of public opinion, but that was after a while of "this is WotC's fault (arguably at least 2 are still considered WotC's fault despite being made by "publishers" whose only products were the things they're known for)
            For a more readily apparent example, look at the thread for the stark difference between, "A GNU GPL style thing for RPGs, that's theoretically a good thing" and John "only read the headline" Public's "this is just Paizo's OGL why do you want Paizo's OGL?"

            >go ask /mlp/ what that was
            please do tell. i dont want to ask /mlp/ freaks

            That's when the cartoon that made GR 15 ended. It really does seem like it held up the profit margins for Hasbro, especially because the dips are where hiatuses were.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              I do understand where you are coming from, and agree that our impasse is likely one of real world practicality than overarching philosophy. For what it is worth, this is why I want to encourage Paizo's decision to turn this license out into the world and OUTSIDE of the their control, as it gives them the out that WotC currently lack in John Public's eyes. I think that it sounds like both of us want a strong license, but your view is that the morality clause will strengthen the license by letting a gatekeeping company or organisation filter content to stay ahead of scandal, while I think that not having a morality clause will strengthen the license by not making the license holder have to justify every decision to accept or reject the use of said license, and also by broadening the scope of the harbour to increase the amount of content that will be able to be used in a protected manner without fear of lawfare. I think that it is clear at this point that we can both see the merits and detriments in each other's proposals, and am glad that I think I have had a somewhat sane "argument" (really discussion) on /tg/ for what feels like the first time in almost a decade. All the best anon, I feel like we are two people in the same trench thinking that a different weapon will best break the stalemate, but I'm happy to share the trench with you.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Hey you're quite alright, I think it's just the eternal struggle of Theory in Application and Applied Theory.
                Besides we're both ORCs here, I mean I'm just hoping for more 1st Party Creators to jump on board, see just how incestuous Paizo-KP-GR gets if they go with (guess you could call it) 2nd Party Publishing.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Indeed. I'll admit that I don't have AS MUCH of a dog in this fight (I've played in a few PF, 4E and 5E games in recent years but I have only really run homebrew hacks sometimes pulling from OSR stuff at my own tables for near on a decade now) but the OGL has led to a healthier environment overall (we just need to think of the clusterfuck that arose from the GSL, and that didn't invalidate the OGL like they are now trying) and so I would like to see that spirit reflected in the ORC. I also admit to not being such a greybeard to be present at the Satanic Panic, but my earliest DMs WERE, and I've seen my fair share of moral outrage campaigns coming from all sides of the political aisle. I think that a CoC clause in the ORC will cause infinitely more troubles for the actual license than it may potentially solve for Paizo PR (hell, it might open the door to new issues that wouldn't exist if it did not), but at the end of the day I share these concerns because I want new people to come into a more sensible hobby, not some weird patchwork of written and unwritten rules that can kill your idea before you knew what was wrong with it. They can never stop me running my stupid skeleton king vs lich zombie lord vs crusading church "fight to monopolise the dead" setting (fun fact, the skeleton king is actually the faction the party aligned with and that was great, it is my scenario but it is their game), but a morality clause could see me prevented from publishing the setting under ORC depending on who was the arbiter of "unacceptable bigotry". I really hope they do this right, not because myself (and a lot of the OSR) have any need for ORC or OGL or anything, but because a lot of our potential players DO have that need, as do a lot of people who share our love of the hobby but play it a different way.
                Good luck brother, I'd love to share a table with you in another life.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I don't doubt it, I'd say have it be common sense. Truthfully I'd like to see the two purely 3PP who got in early make a push towards being 1PPs, I know Legendary could reasonably do it, not sure about Rogue Genius though.

                >Paizo is the messenger and the diplomat that worked with others.
                Sure. And paizo never ever will take Wizard`s place instead.

                Kinda hard to do that when they're not the ones who actually own or hold the license.

  15. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >release all my shit under cc0 just like my code

    Nuthin personnel

  16. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    This entire thread is why I tend not to venture away from the PDF sharethread. Everyone is basically screaming at each other and not the people we should be (hint: no, it’s not Matt Mercer/Critical Role; it’s the entire leadership of Hasbro), everyone is spiraling into throwing slurs more at home on 4chan than anywhere else, and this entire thing is becoming one giant mess. Really wish y’all would just cool it with the personal insults and xenophobic comments, if I’m being honest, but of course, that’s a dream that will never come true.

    For the record, I’ve yet to actually read what Paizo put together as a counterpoint to Hasbro/WotC’s OGL 1.1, but from what I’ve read by others and have seen based on reactions from newsletters being circulated by various TTRPG sites/Twitter accounts/message boards, the ORC is, for all intents and purposes, lightyears better than whatever Hasbro’s offering. Quirky and oddly worded, sure, but most certainly a sight for sore eyes.

    If you’d excuse me, I’m gonna head back to the sharethread and try to forget that y’all exist, ok? Ok.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      no you don't understand it's much much worse because it's Pathfinder, 4chancucks said so

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The ORC doesn't even exist yet. The only thing that Paizo has done is the intent of the ORC, not the legalize that makes it. The intent is certainly good and would be better than what Hasbro/WotC wants, but until it actually exists as a document that we can comb over, it's just well wishes.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >I tend not to venture away from the PDF sharethread
      >Really wish y’all would just cool it with the personal insults and xenophobic comments
      I think reddit is more your speed, chief
      But they don't allow piracy there, do they?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >no, it’s not Critical Role
      Shitical role literally one of the main reasons why dnd in such pathetic state

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Shut the fuck up gay

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I mean how many cocks do you think he sucks?
        It's only been known about for 10 hours and hell Paizo even admits that it was basically only proposed by them as a GNU answer to WotC's Closed Source Software attempt, that got 3.25 game publishers (Kobold Press' just announced system is like a .25 at best) and 2.75 3rd party publishers on board by the time of the announcement, not owned by them unlike WotC with the OGL.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Everyone is basically screaming at each other and not the people we should be (hint: no, it’s not Matt Mercer/Critical Role; it’s the entire leadership of Hasbro), everyone is spiraling into throwing slurs more at home on 4chan than anywhere else, and this entire thing is becoming one giant mess. Really wish y’all would just cool it with the personal insults and xenophobic comments, if I’m being honest, but of course, that’s a dream that will never come true.
      You've a wild imagination to say the least.
      Do fuck off and take your meds.

  17. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Isn't Paizo doing the same thing Blizzard did with WoW though?
    They can just snatch up anything you make if it looks good enough?
    Or was that WOTC?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      That was pretty much WotC. ORC looks to be going for a GNU style thing for people signing on.

  18. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I wish I could see the faces of the corpos responsible for killing their own company.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      They are too busy being gay to notice.

  19. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >gave up
    OP stop being a retard, this is literally worse than 4e for WoTC.

    Not only has Paizo announced that if WoTC tries any nonsense, they're going take them to court (and win because most of the people who actually wrote the OGL work at Paizo), they also have literally formed a coalition of some of the largest third party publishers to completely abandon the D&D ecosystem entirely and instead start publishing under a license that will literally be held by a Linux Foundation tier nonprofit which will be open and irrevocable forever.

    It's literally over for One D&D, third party publishers and influencers are how WoTC makes their money and now that they're all threatened with 25% royalties AND the open alternative Paizo is making they're going to leave.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >It's literally over for One D&D, third party publishers and influencers are how WoTC makes their money and now that they're all threatened with 25% royalties AND the open alternative Paizo is making they're going to leave.
      I don't think WotC can course-correct this particular ship now, because you can't just change the entire corporate plan within a week. So they are going to crash into a mother of all icebergs, I suspect.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      OGL is open an irrevocable forever already

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Not in writing, you'd have to go to court for it and that's a bit of a hassle to argue, especially against Hasbro money.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          What money Hasbro is bankrupt by next year.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            not much, just way down in stock. GR 15 isn't doing well, the WotC -problems are hurting them, Parker Bros shit is down, give it a couple years.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Good luck disputing the fact that they revoked it in court. Against Hasbro.
        Oh you have a good chance of winning, but enjoy burning a few millions for it.

  20. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >One woke shitty corpo beat other woke shitty corpo
    Yawn. Why you all so happy about it?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It's not actually a corp making an new OGL,
      People just jumped on it being Paizo's OGL instead of Pathfinder, Mutants and Masterminds/the AGE System, (unnamed Kobold Press anounced system), and Call of Cthulhu/Runequest/7th Sea/Pendragon RPG will fall under an irrevocable GNU style OGL held by a law firm until the parties can find a non-profit to take the reins.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It's not about Paizo winning, it's about WotC losing.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >One woke shitty corpo loose
        >Other win
        Question still remain

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          D&D loses because it's not just Paizo on the whole ORC thing. Paizo is the messenger and the diplomat that worked with others.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Paizo is the messenger and the diplomat that worked with others.
            Sure. And paizo never ever will take Wizard`s place instead.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              During the height of the Pathfinder RPG, Paizo had a dedicated site to grant the people access to the content of their rulebooks for free. They don't do so out of pure altruism but because they think that opening their content is beneficial to them.
              They are enlightened egoists which seems far better than whatever philosophy WotC embodies.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                It's still there, they've got one for Pathfinder 2e too. It's been great, played two campaigns in the system now, I actually bought a physical copy of the core rule book even though I don't use it cause the site is so much more convenient

  21. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Are people really dumb enough to trust POZZo? They're made of the same coastoid leftist types as WotC. It'd monumentally retarded to think they're any different, this is pure opportunism. I don't trust either of them, at all. Pozzo gets big and they'll do the same thing.

  22. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    You are put in control of wizards.

    What would you do to try to damage control and get out of this mess?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      At this point, there is fuck all you can to. Wizards have played themselves. It would require the total revamp of the entire corporate yearly plan.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I wouldn't. Full steam ahead, lets sink this ship.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Sign in under ORC, and write an official apology. Ditch OneDnD, wait for the flames to die and launch it as 6e.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Ditch OneDnD
        I don't think they can do that, now that they are full steam ahead with this shit. It would be too costly to scrap it.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      the only thing i can even think of is a twitter apology to the playerd, content creators, and the original OGL designers, scrapping the new OGL then resigning. Even after that, D&D is gonna have a nasty scar, and a lot of people aren’t gonna come back.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Walk it back at the very least, because this has been going on for longer than a week (they're still expecting it to die down soon and its not) and subs to the thing we bought out to make it our official character building app just got floored.. Basically tell the suits at Hasbro that their ideas are tanking the company that brought in an easy Billion for them in the last year and to let us actually work on building bridges because happy consumers are ones who spend money, and that unlike their toy lines, we have competition from all over.
      And even then, the shit would have a huge ass gash where it hit the iceberg.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Fire the former microsoft execes and properly blame them, release a OGL 1.0b that is irrevocable and fucking pray its enough because its fucking ogre

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Easy fucking peasy.
      >Declare One as Sixth Edition or 5.5
      >State an official apology saying that due to corporate meddling in the hobby, the new OGL has been bypassed from what it was meant to be many years ago in an attempt to monetize a hobby that needed to be social, to be enjoyed with friends, family and people we enjoy playing with
      >As such, the new OGL is entirely demolished and ignored, the old OGL in standing and furthermore we all encourage third party content to flourish and to be published, with our inhouse editors and creatives now working twice as hard to produce quality content to match the market
      >Make a big thing about how the passion of the fans has been heard and the internal offices all agree that delivering more engaging content and rules to their tables is clearly what they want, with new settings, rules, optional mechanics and more coming to their table soon to make the magic of the worlds greatest tabletop game even better
      >Finish up by saying that we're aware of how much of a blemish this is and will be on DnD but that we hope we can make up for it with the effort of everyone involved, inhouse and out, to make a good and fun game for everyone
      >Probably some cheesy shit like we wish you luck on your dice rolls and may your creativity have no bounds

      This would imply competence and them knowing one thing's way more profitable than the other tho. The sheer ammount of folks 3rd party stories and videos and shit bring in only to make people buy the books is absurd and having the digital equivalent of free advertisement samples for like minimal "potential profit loss" is exceptional in basically any industry.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Declare One as Sixth Edition or 5.5
        How would this solve anything, if this is still going to be the same edition that aims to monetize the fuck out of the fandom?

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          "D&D 6e" doesn't have the same negative association with the scandal as "OneD&D"

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Is this their way to combat osrfags? Will the next scandalous edition be announced as BeeX D&D? Or Ayy D&D?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Sue the fuck out of Inestructoboy and Roll for Combat, find an underhanded way to sue Paizo into submission, additionally finance OneD&D marketing program to have multiple 1-2 hour streams of scripted D&D VTT games with attractive """not actors""", announce some kind of story event that would start the new edition, pay a bounty hunter to hunt down M*nte Co*k and feed him to the gators, start a fake foreign business that releases racist D&D NFT's and start virtue signalling like I'm a neurotic in LA traffic, make a statement that "we hear you and we feel you and we will announce a better engagement with the needs of our consumers in a form of better licenses in near future" and proceed with the next edition.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Hey anon, you do realize we're making fun of Hasbro Executives right?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Something along hte lines of this.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      This is the rare case where there's nothing you can do, I think. Even if you were to walk it all back, apologize profusely, the damage's already done. You've already shown to all the 3pp publishers and other folk that you are willing to, in a dime, turn back around and try to bend then all over and fuck them raw. Taking it back because of enormous backlash doesn't change the fact that you tried to do it. D&D won't die - just too many normies and consoomers in from shit like CR and Stranger Things, but there is literally nothing that can be done to soften the blow or the loss of costumers.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Even so, people will unfortunately forget in a year or two. And next time they pull this shit again they'll be surprised again. And on it goes.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Quite likely. But hey, at least the cancer that is 5e is taking a hit.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I'll drink to that.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I publicly apologise for the anti-White policies and practices.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        What anti white policies and practices?

  23. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    At last I truly see now.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >5 Year
      >between $80-120 a share From 2018
      >first sudden drop about October 2019 (go ask /mlp/ what that was)
      >coof hits
      >tanks market for about a month
      >hovers about $60-80 a share afterwards
      Man, I hate saying it but was that one toyline really propping them up that much?

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >go ask /mlp/ what that was
        please do tell. i dont want to ask /mlp/ freaks

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Hasbro's attraction has been for years their dividend (4.25%, decent for a conventional dividend).

  24. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I really hope this OGL thing will help me get my table out of d20 systems. and if cringe role and other faggs gets shafted is strictly positive.

  25. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    My main table is looking into playing new systems for once, thank you WotC.

  26. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    is this overmonetization the reason why WoTC makes nothing but retarded modules for faggs that shouldnt be playing anyway instead of making new rules and options
    there is like one rulebook every 2 years max, and lot of them are filled with worthless shit

  27. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Has that schizo who says the ORC bans Christian content posted proof of that yet?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      What are you talking about?

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        In the other two threads about this, there was a guy who claimed that the ORC will ban publishing of content made by Christians or that is Christian in nature And it sounded really schizo to me, especially since the ORC hasn’t even been written yet.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Sheesh, that does sound scizo.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I don't think he'd be able to, since the ORC doesn't exist yet, only an affirmation from Paizo that they are working on it.

      this whole new OGL thing is very supicious to me. When my table moved to DnD the OGL seemed insanely generous. Sure, i dont like antiracism and that whole thing, but to be simply allowed to make material and keep whole profit...
      I wonder if the main part of the outcry is that critical role and other companies like it have giant social media presence.
      Did anyone make comprehensive tldr why is it bad for my table?

      Hasbro is a publicly traded company. They have a responsibility to their stakeholders to maximise profits. Somebody noticed at some point that the OGL allows competitors to make products with no stated royalty requirements, and that WotC MIGHT be able to mandate royalty payments from those people with an updated OGL. Honestly, this is what it comes down to. They do not want another Critical Role because WotC had to partner with CR to get in on it, not the other way around. What they fail to recognise is that the CRs, the Stranger Things, the random twitch groups playing D&D, the content mills of kickstarter supplements are all a funnel leading into D&D. Take away the OGL, return to GSL like we had in 4th, and that funnel will be directed elsewhere.
      Truth be told, this is what the intent of the ORC is. Paizo (and the other companies getting in on the ground floor) can make a goodwill gesture that they won't engage in spurious lawfare to entice people to produce content within their environments. Paizo will put out all the splatbooks they can and make all the money they can, but they still mainly profit off the Pathfinder and Starfinder core books, and anything that funnels customers to that is a win for them.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        this whole new OGL thing is very supicious to me. When my table moved to DnD the OGL seemed insanely generous. Sure, i dont like antiracism and that whole thing, but to be simply allowed to make material and keep whole profit...
        I wonder if the main part of the outcry is that critical role and other companies like it have giant social media presence.
        Did anyone make comprehensive tldr why is it bad for my table?

        I should also add that my statements aren't an endorsement of what Hasbro is doing, merely that they are locked on the path of short sighted returns to investors over long term health of the property (and long term profits with it). I'm quite sure that there are many within WotC (as much as I hate them) that know this OGL1.1 is a retarded decision that is going to fuck them over, but once it was suggested that they COULD do this, it is difficult for a publicly traded company to decide NOT TO do this.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Hard to say. In Ganker land Blizzard has been making one fuck up after another for last 15 years, and its easier to change videogame than TTRPG system.
          So its very possible this will simply blow over in couple of years. I also wonder how real is the financial influnce of CR, because i ve heard lot of their viewers dont really play and wouldnt buy the books anyway

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        The text for ORC literally doesn't even exist yet.

        Yeah I know it doesn’t exist yet, which is why I said he seemed schizo and asked if he had posted any proof besides “The crack in my brain said Paizo hates Jesus”

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          To be fair, the snail in my ear is currently telling me that Paizo must pay for its sins regardless of what good work they may do, I am clamping down on that pretty hard. I do think it sounds like an agent provocateur though, a lot of people are taking advantage of this chaos, some for political ends, others for no other reason than it is fucking funny.

          Hard to say. In Ganker land Blizzard has been making one fuck up after another for last 15 years, and its easier to change videogame than TTRPG system.
          So its very possible this will simply blow over in couple of years. I also wonder how real is the financial influnce of CR, because i ve heard lot of their viewers dont really play and wouldnt buy the books anyway

          Well that is the gambit. WotC think that they can make big money overnight from whoever signs on, then go through a period of suffering (similar to 4E launch when people dumped D&D en masse) before bringing in a new generation of players that know no better and profiting heavily from them (using 4E as an example again, I remember some fellow travelers who started a couple of years after 4E launched and they were raised within that system, giving basically all of their hobby money to WotC until the edition change and being D&D loyalists by then).
          >I also wonder how real is the financial influnce of CR
          The actual financial influence isn't as important as the imagined financial influence. 250 grand in royalties might not sound like a lot to a corporation like Hasbro, but that would be 250 grand ROYALTIES, pure profit, no investment needed. They need to justify why money has been left on the table. Again, a lot of this feels to me like corporate wheels turning without anyone to even man them and decide if they need interrupting or not.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The text for ORC literally doesn't even exist yet.

  28. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The purpose of the OGL was always to drive away competitors from the D&D format.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      If that's the case they probably had something nasty planned in One-D&D.
      And they wanted to alter the OGL to prevent another Pathfinder 1e.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        That explanation sounds a bit too 5D chess for me. I think it is simply that a company like Hasbro was always going to try and Milk the D&D brand for everything they could.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      this 100%

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Well that backfired.

  29. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Something we all have overlooked here now: while this may have been the fault of some suits and legal, this has done so much irrevocable damage to not only the future financial viability of DnD, but MtG and even the toy lines that whoever thought this up is probably having several different boots shoved up their ass for making a blunder this bad. There is no world in which someone who has not only cratered the plans of the entire fiscal year before it even started, but also given free PR and fucking marketshare to competition gets to keep their job.

  30. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    https://twitter.com/DnD_Shorts/status/1613576298114449409
    Shit is getting funny

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      D&D Beyond is such a shitty service I have a hard time believing anyone with a brain ever subscribed to it.

  31. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    This is the fate Hasbro deserves for cucking G4 MLP and replacing it with the soulless garden gnomeshit known as G5

  32. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Simply Epic. Just like my Marvel movies!

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I've never actually seen Endgame. I stopped watching Marvel movies around Iron Man 2.
      And I missing something significant?

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Iron Man 1 and 2 was good

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Not really.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I feel like these sort of messages have to be trolling. It's just too stupid to be real.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Welcome to brand new world

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Welcome to DnDrones

  33. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    What I wanna know is who is releasing 5efinder, and how can I file the serial numbers off of Mystic and make that a class for that?

  34. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Can you imagine the utter chaos that must be unfolding in the WOTC PR department?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Das war ein Befehl! Der neue D&D Film war ein Befehl!

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I don't think they care very much. They are just annoyed that those stupid fans are throwing a tantrum. They will wait a bit, do some Gay Pride pandering shit to distract twitter long enough and quietly force the OGL 1.1 anyway.

  35. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    There is no downside, even for D&D players, if WotC/Hasbro's dominant market position gets shaken up. Maybe they'll actually start putting out good products.

  36. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Can you really not use the term "race" under the ORC? Or is that just silly reactionism?

    Because it'd be pretty stupid if you really couldn't use it.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      "Bro I read on facebook that the earth is fucking flat, can you believe the government hid that from us?"
      this is you right now

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Anon, the ORC doesn't even exist right now.
        It's a project in pre-planning stage at best.

        Are you actually drunk? This doesn't make any sense. It is a fucking licensing agreement and it isn't even going to be owned by Paizo.

        Fucking Paizo shills, I swear

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          READ TARD! It isn't a Paizo license! This isn't a matter of people shilling or advocating for a company, it is people pointing out that you don't even understand what is going on.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            meds, PIDF

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              bruh, the article isn't that hard to find, go back to your general.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Anon, the ORC doesn't even exist right now.
      It's a project in pre-planning stage at best.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Are you actually drunk? This doesn't make any sense. It is a fucking licensing agreement and it isn't even going to be owned by Paizo.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      reacyionism, we honestly don't know what6 it'll entirely be but can reasonably guess it'll mimic the OGL.
      Reactionaries who haven't touched a d100 or d20, don't know that it's trying to be the GNU GPL but for TTRPGs and think it's Paizo's permission to use the SRD in a very draconian way. Becayse as usual, the're on the third day of theit meth binge.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >it's trying to be the GNU GPL but for TTRPGs
        If that was the case, they'd just use GNU Free Documentation License or something similar. They just want OGL 1.0 that isn't made by Wizards.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          No one likes the GFDL because of the fixed elements clause or something. It's not nearly as popular as GPL2 or 3. Might be more popular than AGPL.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            yeah that's why it's being signed on with
            >Paizo who made a Fantasy Heartbreaker after their OGL 1.0 experiment
            >Green Ronin Made a System that's not even D20 after their D20 products either flopped or stopped really being D20
            >Kobold Press who's going to rey and strike out of the OGL bubble with their own system
            >Chaosium, so well known for their OGL 1.0 products and not their fucking d100 products.
            >Legendary Games, who reasonably could strike out of the OGL
            >A company that makes 3pp for Paizo
            >The law firm that's drawing up the thing with discussions from likely reps from the companies and are the holders until a suitable non-profit can be found to hold it.
            >Whole basis is what the OGL was intended to actually be a way to keep big companies from suing little companies who make 3pp.
            Sure sounds like the OGL1.1 (owned by Wizards, only done by people working for Wizards, even the 1.0 version was heavily weighted in Wizard's favor) to me

            You're missing the point. Using GPL equivalent license would require ALL content in products that use licensed content to be under the same license. No SRD, just straight up "Everything in this book is covered by ORC license." And that is clearly not what Paizo&co are after. They just want an OGL that is owned by someone they can trust.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              They want irrevocable OGL that allows to separate the content that you're willing to share with others and everything related to your IPs. This way you could easily make a deal with Disney to make a Star Wars Empire Chainsaw Massacre Squad with PF2e rules.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              I was just sperging about the GFDL for no reason, sorry.

              It will probably be more like open source game engines where the engine is open but the "assets" are not. E.g. Golarion is copyrighted but Barbarian isn't.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                not even that. for fucks sake, it's not just Path/starfinder. jesus fucking chhrist go look at the fucking article, have sonmebody with a goddamn 3rd grade level of reading comprehension.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          yeah that's why it's being signed on with
          >Paizo who made a Fantasy Heartbreaker after their OGL 1.0 experiment
          >Green Ronin Made a System that's not even D20 after their D20 products either flopped or stopped really being D20
          >Kobold Press who's going to rey and strike out of the OGL bubble with their own system
          >Chaosium, so well known for their OGL 1.0 products and not their fucking d100 products.
          >Legendary Games, who reasonably could strike out of the OGL
          >A company that makes 3pp for Paizo
          >The law firm that's drawing up the thing with discussions from likely reps from the companies and are the holders until a suitable non-profit can be found to hold it.
          >Whole basis is what the OGL was intended to actually be a way to keep big companies from suing little companies who make 3pp.
          Sure sounds like the OGL1.1 (owned by Wizards, only done by people working for Wizards, even the 1.0 version was heavily weighted in Wizard's favor) to me

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The ORC isn't even out yet it's just 4changays having a tantrum about nothing per usual

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I dunno. I haven't seen a manifesto about how the existence of trans people is going to collapse western civilization totes like for realzies yet. They might just be retards.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Bad actors on both sides. Ignore shitposters like that.

  37. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Why does it take so long for Rage of Elements to come out? Will Paizo ever go back and update or buff classes that seem to be unpopular like the Alchemist or Investigator?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      What happened to the Investigator? He was quite viable in PF1. I played one that was basically Brian Blessed.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I heard that it's apparently just too weak overall or too specialized for non-combat scenarios.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          In PF1, Studied Combat and Studied Strike made them quite viable in combat, especially combined with other buffs.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      They literally just gave alchemist buffs in the last errata.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Got a link?

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          paizo.com/UseFuckingGoogleYouMongoloid

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Done, thanks!

  38. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous
    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      You still don't need Paizo, but you never needed WotC/D&D either.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        great got something that isn't fucking GURPS, so old it shows its age with every single roll, isn't shitty ass round robin storytelling with dice, isn't some 30-40 year old's heard about how D&D was in BEX and 1e from the grogs wwho didn['t keep goin when it became BECMI and 2e, and and doesn't force me to play in their shitty (generic fantasy land) that's so totally better than (generic fantasy land) for pretty much generic high fantasy?

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Of course I do. Play MAID RPG, you pedantic gay.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >doesn't force me to play in their shitty (generic fantasy land) that's so totally better than (generic fantasy land) for pretty much generic high fantasy?
          baffles the mind how anybody could play DnD and then ask this about other systems with a straight face

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            D&D doesn't force you to play in the creator's shitty version of Middle Earth that's totally created by a genius gais.

            How does this even work with a pen and paper game? Wtf

            lets you pick and choose what you have on the character/encounter creator as far as books go.
            You get them in the same way if you get the full adventure, it's mostly for people who (using Spelljammer as an example) Want Plasmids and nothing else.

  39. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    you may have misread. they are going to do BOTH.

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