Pokemon Home's master plan

To recap:

>Last year, Pokemon added support for more games, letting Pokemon freely move between three sets of games as long as they exist in that game.

These games are:
>SwSh
>BDSP
>PLA

The reason this is relevant is because unlike all the games of gen 3 (for example) these games all use completely different data structures. The only reason they can freely move between each other is due to some clever engineering in Pokemon Home.

>Why is this relevant?
Because it means they have the infrastructure to do this with every game going forward.

With the new system they have, you can send the Pikachu you caught in gen 11 back to Sword & Shield, and vice versa. Based on the way they're engineering this solution, it actually seems like it might be MORE work to stray away from this paradigm.

So the question is this, anon
>Do you think this is a reasonable replacement for the old way they did things (all Pokemon in every gen but forward transfers only)?

  1. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Not really. What utility does a Pikachu in gen 11 have over a Pikachu that was caught in gen 8? The only thing I could potentially see given the scenario as of right now is that you could catch a Pokemon in gen 9 with a special mark not obtainable in gen 8 (like the size marks) and back transfer it to get ribbons not available in gen 9, but I see next to no real utility to do this other than collection purposes or Ribbon Masters.
    Which also begs the question, why not go all the way and get marks that are unique to Sword/Shield (Curry Mark, Fog Mark, Catch of the Day mark) and transfer forwards anyways? If we're talking purely about tradeoffs, it is not a reasonable replacement. I'm not even a BBNDer or anything of the sort, but if we are framing it in terms of one or the other, I would definitely rather have the other system.
    To be honest however, it is cool- they just need to put actual things to do in each gen that would make me want to actually do this. There are 3 unique things in gen 8 you would want to do this for (Restricted Sparring, Path of Solitude, BDSP Battle Tower) for battling and literally one game has contests.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Also as a final thought to this, but the two games that do not allow back transferring- PoGo and LGPE are the games that would unironically benefit from this the most given the Master Trainer battles or just having your trained Pokemon from your games in PoGo for raids.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Do you think this is a reasonable replacement for the old way they did things (all Pokemon in every gen but forward transfers only)?
        No, it doesn't compensate from having all mons in every game.

        Also you're assuming they'll utilize the system to its full capacity which there's no precedent of.

        Go lives on adding new mons for your collection and releasing mons usable for battle. You'd auto-kill the game if you allowed transfers from home.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Being a live service game, I think it'd be too much of a hassle for them to keep updating Home to support two-way transfers.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          It doesn't require any updating other than generational releases. At least if you know what you're doing.
          With very few exceptions, any time a new mon is released in Go can go to home already.

  2. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    None of this means shit after they added moveset resetting. Now there's no point in even transferring up because you lose everything that makes your Pokémon unique.

    It's better to emulate the Switch era games because you can use PkHeX for transfers. Not to mention the better performance, upscaling and mod support.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >lose EVERYTHING that makes your Pokémon unique
      A Pokémon has more unique data than just its moves anon

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >A Pokémon has more unique data than just its moves anon
        NTA but what unique data? Nature? le rare meme mark? Nobody really cares about it. Most of the time you see your pokemon moves and stats...

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Now there's no point in even transferring up because you lose everything that makes your Pokémon unique.
      This is why TPC will never listen to it's fans, because people like you exist.

  3. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >With the new system they have, you can send the Pikachu you caught in gen 11 back to Sword & Shield
    Not happening, if this were true then lgpe wouldn't be left out. These games are only going to be compatible one way with future gens just like every other gen.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Tell me how this chart is going to look with the SV update then, anon.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        They'll likely update it to reflect the new circumstances, just as they updated it to explain how it worked so far, but I'm pretty sure they're still operating under the assumption of Generations, given they're marketing the new one at the minute.
        It's like you think because they published it, they can't change it.

  4. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I hate it when they look like the result of a Mr. Mime breeding with an animal, and when the quadrupeds stand up and become bipedal.
    If it was bipedal when it started I literally don't give a shit.

  5. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Compatibility is cool and all, but it doesnt matter in the end if i cant have all my bros in the same game. Dexcuts have been a plague on the franchise.

    I'd be content if HOME has a Battle Revolution-esque fighting system. The main games would be where you capture/train pokemon and have flashier battle animations, and HOME would be barer bones but have all the mons available in one place. If smogon can figure it out, why cant TPC?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >you can use blaziken/decidueye in SWSH
      >you can use blaziken/empoleon in BDSP
      >you can use empoleon/(hisuan)decidueye in PLA
      >only decidueye is programmed to be in SV, and its not even available yet
      >you have to go back to Gen 7 to use decidueye/blaziken/empoleon all together
      Just fuck up my fun with the franchise senpai

  6. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    the master plan is to abandon it all when the nintendo loopy releases in 202X and quickly drop go support from it and 5-8 years down the line itll just stop working

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      is the pokemon loopy before the pokemon scoopy or the pokemon doopy?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Home isn't going to be replaced, it's universal, that's why it's on mobile devices as well

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        There was never a reason to replace Bank and here we are.
        Again, people seem under the assumption they'll do something just because they can.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >There was never a reason to replace Bank
          Bank was made in a different era before the series rapidly changed. They didn't have the foresight to predict how quickly the series would move to a home console that isn't backwards compatible with the 3DS, or how impactful a mobile game like GO would be on the main series compatibility. Home is clearly built in a future-proof way that's universal across any type of device.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            And Red and Green were made long before the 3ds was a concept and somehow work there.
            Its almost as if you can work on released software.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              What? The original Red and Green aren't compatible with the 3DS, they were re-released, it's a completely different thing

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                > The original Red and Green aren't compatible with the 3DS
                Then how are they on the 3ds?

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              If you want to split hairs, the DMG games aren't directly compatible with Bank. You can't move anything back into them, only forward via Poke Transporter.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                And? You can play the games on 3ds despite the games not being originally thought for it.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                They just run through an emulator.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                So there's a way to execute software on hardware it wasn't conceived for?
                Crazy.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Yeah, something that has been possible since the dawn of the home computer.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Future proof
            >Cloud service
            lmao

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >what are data backups

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Please tell me about how you can back up your Home data

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                The data is backed up on their end, whether or not the player has access to it offline has nothing to do with the app being future proofed for other devices

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Bank is objectively worse than HOME though

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Gee, if only software could be updated.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              They did, it's called HOME now

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Doesn't show on the 3ds store though.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                HOME isn't an 'update' retard, it's a replacement. There's a difference.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                It was probably easier to just make Bank connect to HOME than it was to make HOME work on the 3DS. I mean they could probably make it work on the Nintendo DSi if they wanted to.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                not that anon but there was no need to conceive home in the first fucking place.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I'm willing to put money on them making a third subscription service on the next console.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Why? Because there's precedent for it? That's silly anon, if this thread is any indication you should make baseless assumptions based on software you haven't used.

                Then why not just keep calling it 'Bank'? Oh right, because they wanted $15 for it!
                [...]
                Anon, most of those moves can be put back on a 'mon easily. In fact, your 'mon will change movesets throughout its existence anyhow as things become more or less viable (and if you plan on using it in Ranked, you'll be forced to lose those moves).
                Shit like marks, at the very least, are an immutable part of the Pokémon itself that will last whether or not the game it goes into even has marks. Same with shit like shininess. At least this way, people who've only got one shiny Arceus can pull it from BDSP when they wanna play Legends, and back in if they're ribbon autists.

                >most of those moves can be put back on a 'mon easily
                nta, but not really

                They just need to update Home with Stadium/Amie features and then it will be a good service. Charge an extra 5 bucks for the battle and Amie features if you want. Or release a game with all the Pokémon so I can store them there.

                Having to pay a yearly fee to keep all your bros across the years is just evil. Especially considering they apparently delete your Pokemon after an arbitrary amount of time not paying.

                >Especially considering they apparently delete your Pokemon after an arbitrary amount of time not paying.
                That was for Bank. Home doesn't do that and you always have a free box.
                Not defending the scam that is Home btw.

                >Charge an extra 5 bucks for the battle and Amie features if you want.
                Fuck no, $15 is already a ripoff for the 2 megabytes of cloud storage you get with Home.

                You're overestimating the same fanbase that thinks pokemon data is too much for a switch cartridge to handle.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Then why not just keep calling it 'Bank'? Oh right, because they wanted $15 for it!

                >A Pokémon has more unique data than just its moves anon
                NTA but what unique data? Nature? le rare meme mark? Nobody really cares about it. Most of the time you see your pokemon moves and stats...

                Anon, most of those moves can be put back on a 'mon easily. In fact, your 'mon will change movesets throughout its existence anyhow as things become more or less viable (and if you plan on using it in Ranked, you'll be forced to lose those moves).
                Shit like marks, at the very least, are an immutable part of the Pokémon itself that will last whether or not the game it goes into even has marks. Same with shit like shininess. At least this way, people who've only got one shiny Arceus can pull it from BDSP when they wanna play Legends, and back in if they're ribbon autists.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >and if you plan on using it in Ranked, you'll be forced to lose those moves
                Yeah, but it was an option previously. But I guess the theming behind the Switch games is to remove options that were previously there.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I mean, if mons can cross-gen transfer then you're just trading one thing for the other. Honestly, I think the idea of my Pokémon being able to go back into future games is cool. That way, you're not locked out of shit like ribbon collecting or using a self-caught shiny Zacian in Sword.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Aside from shiny autism, it's no different than just catching a Pokemon normally. It's not even like you can bring in mons that aren't in the regional dex anymore.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Well I mean, I am a shiny autist AND a bit of a ribbon/title autist, so I do benefit from it somewhat. That's not to say I'm happy about losing all the special moves on my event Pokémon, or that I even consider it acceptable...just that there's more to your bro than his moveset.

                Why? Because there's precedent for it? That's silly anon, if this thread is any indication you should make baseless assumptions based on software you haven't used.
                [...]
                >most of those moves can be put back on a 'mon easily
                nta, but not really
                [...]
                >Especially considering they apparently delete your Pokemon after an arbitrary amount of time not paying.
                That was for Bank. Home doesn't do that and you always have a free box.
                Not defending the scam that is Home btw.

                [...]
                You're overestimating the same fanbase that thinks pokemon data is too much for a switch cartridge to handle.

                >nta, but not really
                Oh yeah, the stupid 'breakable TMs' shit that got brought back to artificially inflate 'replay value'. Fuck GameFreak for that shit.
                >You're overestimating the same fanbase that thinks pokemon data is too much for a switch cartridge to handle.
                Yeah I guess that's fair

                If they provide battle mechanics with animations and a ranked ladder, and Amie features, then it's more than just a catalog of jpegs. It's an actual service you can justify a 20 buck a year subscription to. But I would still prefer an actual game hub you pay once and store them on.

                You shouldn't have to pay $20 a year for that anon, the cloud storage they're charging you for is less than a fraction OF A FRACTION of what Apple, one of the greediest companies in the world, gives away FOR FREE.

  7. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >With the new system they have, you can send the Pikachu you caught in gen 11 back to Sword & Shield, and vice versa.
    Moves aren't kept on transfer anymore, so there's basically no reason to ever do this. In fact, there's barely any reason to transfer at all anymore.

  8. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    they might as well let you use your pokemon in literally any spin-off then

    let me send my bros to mystery dungeon so i can fuck my gardevoir, let me send them to pokken so i can have them get the shit beaten out of them, let me send them to pokemon snap so i can make pinup posters of them.

  9. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I've been backing up my save files since gen 5

  10. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    They just need to update Home with Stadium/Amie features and then it will be a good service. Charge an extra 5 bucks for the battle and Amie features if you want. Or release a game with all the Pokémon so I can store them there.

    Having to pay a yearly fee to keep all your bros across the years is just evil. Especially considering they apparently delete your Pokemon after an arbitrary amount of time not paying.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Charge an extra 5 bucks for the battle and Amie features if you want.
      Fuck no, $15 is already a ripoff for the 2 megabytes of cloud storage you get with Home.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        If they provide battle mechanics with animations and a ranked ladder, and Amie features, then it's more than just a catalog of jpegs. It's an actual service you can justify a 20 buck a year subscription to. But I would still prefer an actual game hub you pay once and store them on.

  11. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I'm looking forward to sending some of my Gen 9 guys back to SWSH, BDSP and Arceus just to pick up ribbons.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Unless they update the Gen 8 games to recognise the Paldean origin mark, Paldean ribbons and other bits of identifying data that just flat-out doesn't exist in Gen 8 as Game Freak hadn't started coding it in when they were finishing up the thing at the time, you ain't doing shit with your newer pokémon in the older games.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        nta but that's easy to do and at worst you can dummy it like they did with PLA mons in swsh.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Ok then, run an experiment: catch a pikachu in let's go (wild viridian forest one) and send it to sword, then try and put it back in let's go. It gets forbidden from going back and fucking Bank worked exactly the same (couldn't put a kalos 'mon back in kalos if it saw the alolan sun). Huff the retard gas if you want.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Okay then, why don't YOU 'run an experiment': Catch a PLA mon, put it in SwSh, and send me a screenshot where it shows the Legends origin mark in SwSh. also send its caught location page.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              ...that's because they're within the same Gen, you dense fuck. Like how ORAS and XY could share pokémon, through Bank too.
              Come back and say that to me when Home updates, but I know you're going to be crying over being wrong instead, rhus too busy to gloat.

              Don't need to, all games within a Generation are allowed to pull from the same Generational pool. No games from cross-Gen are afforded that right and haven't been since Gen 2 and its highly restrictive trading set-up.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            LGPE support was put in before they started work on this system, which uses SwSh as a starting point. It would require additional work to backport the LGPE mons, which they weren't contracted to do because LGPE was old news by the time they were asked to do this.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Oh yeah, almost forgot that HOME is supposed to be a stripped-down version of Pokémon Sword or something.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Pokemon already have unique identifiers when put into Home. It wouldn't be hard at all to tie different traits to different games for any Pokemon with the ID.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Pretty sure that's what they already do with movesets

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Then there's no reason it can't extend to the rest of that Pokemon's data.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        ...anon, we already know that GameFreak doesn't have to update their games to recognize any of that shit; they simply hide whatever data doesn't make sense and use placeholders for it. They already did it for Pokémon that go from PLA to SwSh.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          ...that's because they're within the same Gen, you dense fuck. Like how ORAS and XY could share pokémon, through Bank too.
          Come back and say that to me when Home updates, but I know you're going to be crying over being wrong instead, rhus too busy to gloat.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            [...]
            Don't need to, all games within a Generation are allowed to pull from the same Generational pool. No games from cross-Gen are afforded that right and haven't been since Gen 2 and its highly restrictive trading set-up.

            >back to 'muh precedent'
            Your 'scenario' already panned out and they just used dummy data. We're not even claiming it's a guarantee, just that YOUR 'logic' was baseless.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              We didn't get a new Gen, your assumptions are worthless, given how Bank operated exactly like Home has with the Switch games to date, so sit down and calm down child. One of us will be proven right soon enough, but when Home's following Bank already, there's nothing showing me it's gonna stop anytime soon.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Your assumptions are just as worthless, considering all you've got is 'precedent' that was already broken by Gens 1 and 2. You even tried to use 'b-but muh extra data!' as logic, and even that failed because you don't know how transfers work from PLA/BDSP to SwSh. Hell, they even introduced new placeholders like the Strange Ball, and removed transfer-only moves to prevent 'mons from using moves that don't exist in older gens. PLA to SwSh was, in fact, more ridiculous than your usual cross-gen transfer because NOTHING from those games could directly be translated into SwSh except the most basic of data points.
                We're both talking about something that may or may not happen, except you're acting like you've already seen the future while the others merely consider it a possibility. Might wanna shut up on the off-chance that cross-gen transfers actually happen and you're left looking like a retarded patternfag.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Nope, they don't need to do that. From what I've read Home keeps a "memory" of your pokemon with different versions of each format it's been in, so even though your Paldean mark Pikachu doesn't recognize having a Paldean mark in gen 9, it will recognize it having one when it goes back to Home

        >There's no precedent!!
        There literally is, retards. PLA and BDSP are just as different to SS as a new gen game is. They functionally are seperate generations as is.

  12. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Anon, you're working a lot based on mere conjecture. BDSP, PLA and SWSH are all gen 8 games so of course there's compatibility between them.

    Mutual compatibility between different gens hasn't been seen since gen 1 and 2. Let's wait for the gen 9 Home announcement before coming to conclusions. It would be cool but I wouldn't doubt if they just lock off gen 9 Pokémon to gen 9 games and forbid you from trading back to gen 8 once they've been transferred up.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      You don't get it, do you?
      PLA literally has new Pokemon, and uses the gen 9 data structure (for example, it tracks size)
      It is already a next gen game
      The work is already done

      Calling SV a new gen but not PLA a new gen is simply false on a technical level. The distinction is purely based on marketing at this point.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        They've been introducing new Pokemon mid generation since gen 7. USUM and LGPE had new Pokémon.

        Size differences are now a mainstay feature. I don't see how it proves anything. Of course they need to reflect sizes in future games.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >since gen 7
          Try gen 4.
          >but they're forms, not new pokemon
          They still cause mid-gen incompatibility.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            A Pokemon Emerald with Speed Deoxys and a Pokémon Ruby with Normal Deoxys can still trade and battle. A Pokémon Platinum with Rotom W and a Diamond with Rotom can trade and battle.

            BDSP and SWSH aren't compatible at all directly. They've made steps backwards in terms of midgen compatibility.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              You can't really even consider them 'mid-gen' anymore. What really ties these games together, aside from being able to transfer back-and-forth? They're not even built on the same engine.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Gen 1 and 2 could trade with each other.

                Colosseum and XD could trade with gen 3.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Gen 3 and gen 4 couldn't though.

                The difference between the BDSP and PLA engines is greater than the difference between gen 3 and gen 4 engines.
                Yet BDSP and PLA engines allow two-way compatibility, while gen 3 and 4 only allow one-way compatibility.

                From a technical standpoint, that is a great improvement.

                I don't think anybody could realistically expect PLA and BDSP to allow battling between each other.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Actualy, since the third-versions are now DLC, the compatibility midgen was improved.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Not sure who you're replying to, but I never said it's a guarantee; just that with PLA, there's reason to believe that cross-gen transfers might actually be possible once more, and that precedent exists for them using placeholders or dummy data in place of things like origin marks and Poké Balls.

  13. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >With the new system they have, you can send the Pikachu you caught in gen 11 back to Sword & Shield
    Shit I'd love that for ribbon autism

  14. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I would say that this is bit of a win for balltists/ribbon collectors like myself. Been thinking about this since the Tera Cinderace event came out, and have been hoping that, with how transferring works with removing transfer moves, it could likely finally legalize the starters being in alt Pokeballs while originating from SwSh.

    Here's to hoping!

  15. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    No I hate it because I wasted 5000 hours IV training and breeding for perfect IV hidden ability shiny pokemon, and so I get super mad when that pokemon can get moved gen to gen, gamefreak should not make things more accessible they should cater to me alone. Btw I also hate injecting for competitive.

  16. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >With the new system they have, you can send the Pikachu you caught in gen 11 back to Sword & Shield

    who fucking cares though?
    >you can catch a pikachu in SWSH
    >pokemon in home lose their game/event exclusive moves
    >implying anyone cares about gen 8 now nevermind when gen 11 releases

    it's not a mechanic to be excited about. there will never, ever be an instance where I catch a pokemon in 10 years and think "hmm, I can't wait to transfer this over to a game that GF dropped support for 10 years ago and that has no online playerbase presence"

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