Realistically, is there any way to solve the paladin problem?

Realistically, is there any way to solve the paladin problem?

  1. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Stop being evil?

  2. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    bump

  3. 1 week ago
    Smaugchad

    They've already "solved it". Paladins can be of any alignment now and Evil (capital E) has been removed as a mechanic.

    If you play a traditional type paladin at a modern League etc table, you will be considered "disruptive" at best.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Aah, so murder Hobos, all they way down. Got it.

  4. 1 week ago
    Smaugchad

    To add though - if you play any LG aligned character correctly, most DMs will love you because no alignment advances storyfagging more quickly and reliably.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      This. Conflict adverse, amoral murderhobos are a tiresome plague and most adventurer parties shouldn't have more than 1 at most. Ideally 0.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        >Conflict adverse
        >murderhobos
        What?

        • 1 week ago
          Smaugchad

          In addition to making combats short, murdering people much weaker than you isn't conflict.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          my people are like this. play amoral, self-interested, not motivated to sacrifice, then they see a door with a skull on it and bitch out cause what if it's dangerous. it's awkward cause you have to tell them ooc to nut up but you don't want to railroad them or swing them the opposite direction of doing whatever they think you want them to do.

          it's one reason i think adventurers should mostly be scumbags and social refuse. there's room for righteous heroes and stuff but ultimately diving into caves and ruins for cash in a world where gelatinous cubes exist is categorically insane and anyone who could get any kind of real job would never do it. it's the fantasy equivalent of joining a drug cartel. you're fucked up, you want a few years of money and clout and you don't care that this road will almost certainly end with someone cutting your face off

      • 1 week ago
        Smaugchad

        >Conflict adverse, amoral murderhobos
        But that's how you get maximum "character development" with minimal combat lol

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      > because no alignment
      If "good" means moral, then it shouldn't. Anyone who is concerned with moral good above advancing their own position has concerns and questions about who he shooting and why, this impeads progress.
      ...also if your plot has one predefined endpoint and you let your players have whatever personality they want, you are doing something objectively wrong.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      >no alignment advances storyfagging more quickly and reliably
      I know what you mean, but I want to share an example of a character I played during a game with a large number of people who ended up advancing the story more quickly than any other game I've played.
      The character was actually an evil alignment, but because he was hiding this and his evil aims were long term, he was acting as a buffoon.
      This ended up being perfect for a large party which included many new players who would normally be hemming and hawing with no clue what to do.
      Since there was a lot of intrigue and dialogue in this adventure, having a character who acted like a complete ass was the best catalyst for moving things forward. He would obnoxiously interrupt people to get to the point instead of trying to be diplomatic. Then he would leave the actual diplomacy to characters better suited to being the face, but weren't sure where to take the conversation. It helps that the DM is excellent at running NPC's and seamlessly ad libs responses.
      Where I would normally play more cautiously or feel confined by how the character wout act in a given situation, playing a fool gave me freedom to just do things with less restrictions. This moved things so much more quickly.
      There was a dispute where some workers were upset with how they were being treated. Somehow the party had to resolve the issue to get what we needed. Some workers were on the fence about going on strike.
      Maybe the paladin handles this with a speech about justice and treating workers fairly. Or maybe a paladin doesn't give a shit because he's more concerned about fighting real evils and sees this as a petty dispute. But my special idiot character just orders a drink at the bar and yells "Hey! The boss said his workers are a bunch of lazy slag who aren't worth what he's paying now. Let alone deserving a raise. He didn't mean you guys, right?"
      1/2

      • 1 week ago
        Smaugchad

        [...]
        tl;dr
        The buffoon's attitude that side quests were not his problem and even the main quest being really just a means to get him closer to his personal goals resulted in the best paced, natural story progression of any game I've played.
        2/2

        Collaborative development of an emergent storyline is very different from storyfagging

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      >no alignment advances storyfagging more quickly and reliably
      I know what you mean, but I want to share an example of a character I played during a game with a large number of people who ended up advancing the story more quickly than any other game I've played.
      The character was actually an evil alignment, but because he was hiding this and his evil aims were long term, he was acting as a buffoon.
      This ended up being perfect for a large party which included many new players who would normally be hemming and hawing with no clue what to do.
      Since there was a lot of intrigue and dialogue in this adventure, having a character who acted like a complete ass was the best catalyst for moving things forward. He would obnoxiously interrupt people to get to the point instead of trying to be diplomatic. Then he would leave the actual diplomacy to characters better suited to being the face, but weren't sure where to take the conversation. It helps that the DM is excellent at running NPC's and seamlessly ad libs responses.
      Where I would normally play more cautiously or feel confined by how the character wout act in a given situation, playing a fool gave me freedom to just do things with less restrictions. This moved things so much more quickly.
      There was a dispute where some workers were upset with how they were being treated. Somehow the party had to resolve the issue to get what we needed. Some workers were on the fence about going on strike.
      Maybe the paladin handles this with a speech about justice and treating workers fairly. Or maybe a paladin doesn't give a shit because he's more concerned about fighting real evils and sees this as a petty dispute. But my special idiot character just orders a drink at the bar and yells "Hey! The boss said his workers are a bunch of lazy slag who aren't worth what he's paying now. Let alone deserving a raise. He didn't mean you guys, right?"
      1/2

      tl;dr
      The buffoon's attitude that side quests were not his problem and even the main quest being really just a means to get him closer to his personal goals resulted in the best paced, natural story progression of any game I've played.
      2/2

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Fuck off PbtA gay

      • 1 week ago
        Smaugchad

        ?

        I mean I did just buy my first physical PbtA book, BitD but how would he know that?

  5. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    Take your meds schitzo that's not why they changed that

  6. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    Alright gay take care, don't kill anybody

  7. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    No what's funny is that autists have never been able to play "Good" characters as anything other than insufferable assholes who think being a paladin gives them a license to try and control other players.
    And when enough people finally got sick of this state of affairs the system was changed entirely, spoiling it for people who actually can play lawful good because as usual, retards spoiled it for everyone else.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Judge dredd is lawful good within the setting he exists in
      Faggy moral revisionism fucked up the paladin class in first edition

  8. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    >Realistically, is there any way to solve the paladin problem?

    Mechanically it was solved by removing the alignment restrictions.

    Ideologically, no. There's no practical examples to follow as someone is always going to find a legal code, morals or set of laws in conflict with their own; meaning it's down to your interpretation vs. others (which they also sort of fixed by implementing the whole 'you're character decides what's right for them').

    Even when it does use alignment restrictions "good" and "evil" are so incredibly subjective that the class was always going to be an issue when played by people who weren't already ideologically in alignment (no pun intended) with people they played with; and even then on top of that Gygax intentionally developed original D&D to make good and evil objective entities because you were never supposed to play the "baddies".

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      >Gygax intentionally developed original D&D to make good and evil objective entities because you were never supposed to play the "baddies".
      Which speaks to the problem of retards who generally live in a fantasy world as it is conflating a game with real life. You're generally supposed to be playing a game based on the heroic knight in shining armor slaying a dragon and rescuing the princess.
      Now it's
      >noooo I don't want to play heroic chad hetero sexual who didn't build his identity around inserting things into hos butthole
      >let me ro the same fag that I am in real life
      It just needs to be stated openly and more often that literal gays are ruining everything while calling you the problem.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        >It just needs to be stated openly and more often that literal gays are ruining everything while calling you the problem.

        That's a good point actually. You see lots of "Fuck Facism!" and "This Game is Queer - Shoo CIS!" but do you see any RPG's that goes "Fuck off libtard."

        Not that some text in a book should tell you how to play make-believe. I'm just genuinely interested.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          >do you see any RPG's that goes "Fuck off libtard."
          Never. It's pathetic, really. There should be a no libtard gaming society.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          >do you see any RPG's that goes "Fuck off libtard."
          Never. It's pathetic, really. There should be a no libtard gaming society.

          As a based GM I just kick people from my games when they fag out and I traffic primarily in comfy fantasy tropes, pulp medievalism and old school themes.
          I don’t have to make a list of who isn’t allowed. Running online games allows you to screen candidates before accepting applications a little bit (avatar/name combo will filter out degenerates a good percentage of the time). And it’s easy to just boot someone after they go on some cringe Rachel Maddow rant during a session or otherwise bring their baggage to my table.
          Anyone who introduces strong sexual themes or anything overtly horny in their bio gets filtered too. And when I kick a player I just tell everyone they flaked.
          Clown world sucks but it’s still possible to curate a decent handful of players who are actually about the game rather than inflicting some kind of HR department-approved postmodern morality play on a group of strangers.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            >And when I kick a player I just tell everyone they flaked.
            Based chaotic good DM.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          They have made those, they're just all shit. Rightoids aren't creative, and it's their nature to be uncreative. The best you can get is "D&D but performatively racist." What would a "fuck off libtard" RPG even be? Except D&D but performatively racist.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            If you're playing dnd correctly then racism should already be present you fucking stupid moron

            • 1 week ago
              Anonymous

              Thanks for proving my point. Imagine an RPG from the "mind" of a thing like this poster.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                We don't need to imagine. FATAL is an abortion, Myfarog is an uninspired mess, and RaHoWa is so poorly designed that it's quite literally unplayable.

                >It just needs to be stated openly and more often that literal gays are ruining everything while calling you the problem.

                That's a good point actually. You see lots of "Fuck Facism!" and "This Game is Queer - Shoo CIS!" but do you see any RPG's that goes "Fuck off libtard."

                Not that some text in a book should tell you how to play make-believe. I'm just genuinely interested.

                >do you see any RPG's that goes "Fuck off libtard."
                Never. It's pathetic, really. There should be a no libtard gaming society.

                It's sort of sad that you're shitting on D&D while admitting you're not familiar with the TTRPG landscape. People make right-wing games quite often, it's just that they're shit and right-wing people are a minority of roleplayers to begin with.

                Have you considered not being an obnoxious leftoid gay?

                Have you tried actually playing games?

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            >Except D&D but performatively racist.
            Oh right. Evil alignments. Not quite sure where they are on the lawful/chaotic axis. Don't care.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            Have you considered not being an obnoxious leftoid gay?

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          Pendragon. Riddle of Steel. Even Exalted paints most of its liberally-aligned characters acting antagonistically and using their status for frivolous reasons over fixing the world they reside, which is why it's up to the PCs.
          Basically any RPG that isn't D&D or churned out by Tumblr, or a Cyberpunk game where being the blue-hair is the point takes a mostly romanticist stance, but you're too blinded by sensationalist combat wheelchairs to see it.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          >do you see any RPG's that goes "Fuck off libtard."
          Never. It's pathetic, really. There should be a no libtard gaming society.

          Just play exalted.

  9. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Playing different games.

  10. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    >Realistically
    >Divine powers
    Choose one, fa/tg/uy.

  11. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Stop calling them Paladins

    Make them a character feat and tie their role to major factions, religions, gods, whatever

    If you meet the criteria and the DM okays it, you become a divinely empowered warrior of whatever the fuck and advance its causes.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Nice art

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      You sound like a pussy.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      >Stop calling them Paladins
      They can be called paladins if they are tied to a Lawful Good deity. But that just means that the Chaotic Evil ones are called a different fluff name (and have different power set because why would those be identical when there's a different god granting them).

  12. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    >religiously righteous characters!?
    >nooooo
    >this reminds me that I'm gay and there are religious people irl who think stinky nerds havng buttsex is gross
    >no divine righteousness at my table, tyvm!
    >how can we make demons and orcs more cuddly?
    OP does this describe you?

  13. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    You nailed it. Even the president has stated openly that "Silence is complicity."
    The fact is, while he was speaking on antisemitism, it applies to all of the evils that are spammed at normies daily. Of which they say nothing in response and will even become irritated at those who do point it out. Because the are cowards. Plenty of people are jot afraid to step up and denounce gay buttsex being taught as virtuous. But there are way more who just want to follow what they think is status quo. From where to they get their notion of what they think is status quo?
    They get it from the ontologically evil concerted efforts of media, corporations, and government institutions who consistently shill an evil agenda.
    The average person would rather adopt an evil ideology than risk a life of convenience.
    Which is why we need paladins now more than ever. Unfortunately, the options that are presented are always some false dichotomy of the left vs right flavor of evil. I guarantee a genuine paladin will be viciously attacked by both "sides". But we need hom. We need a divine king who will deliver us from evil.

  14. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    oh boy, can't wait for that screenshot of Gygax saying paladins can do this and that and still be good to be posted yet again by the very same sort of problem people who apparently can't comprehend the ideal of the noble paladin as anything more than a belligerent zealot. Seriously it feels like all the edgelords over time abandoned the usual rogues and warlocks and gravitate to paladins instead for some reason.

  15. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Dont be an autist. That is to say, you cant.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      >Dont be an autist.
      This.
      Know what kind of game you are playing and who you are playing with and that's it.
      Basically, "read the room".

  16. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Paladins are glorified jannies, a class whose motto is NO FUN ALLOWED shouldn't be an option in a system where classes like Warlock and Necromancer and Thief are also options. It's like running a Lupin the third game and Zenigata is a player character who is somehow meant to get along with the party instead of arresting/impeding them every step of the way, it just doesn't work.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      >can't handle party dynamics
      Why is it a problem for a paladin and a warlock to butt heads because one is up toght and the other a demonic little shit? It's funny you want to play these edgy characters, but you're terrified of fictional conflict.
      If your rogue can't use sleight of hand well enough to cheat without the paladin noticit, he's not a very good rogue. Why is a rogue even asking his permission?
      As I rogue, I make dirty deals on the side that only me am the DM are aware of. If I am doing something shady, I don't make it a point to the other members of the party needlessly aware. Do you tell your mom about your dragon dildo collection? Maybe start playing your characters a little better instead of projecting your daddy issues onto the paladins, sweaty.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        >but you're terrified of fictional conflict.
        Terrified? No. It's simply stupid and never a good part of anything because it's always a forced distraction, like the shit you see in every zombie apocalypse film now where humans "are le real monsters" and constantly screwing each other over and making things worse for everybody and themselves because every man is for himself. It's a distraction from what's actually important and interesting and its better to just do away with whichever one is the disruptive that is fucking with party cohesion like those fucks who insist on all sorts of wacky races who have no business being together on the same path.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          >from what's actually important and interesting
          for you

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous
        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          >like the shit you see in every zombie apocalypse film now where humans "are le real monsters" and constantly screwing each other over and making things worse for everybody and themselves because every man is for himself.
          >now

          • 1 week ago
            Smaugchad
    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      >Paladins are glorified jannies, a class whose motto is NO FUN ALLOWED

      >can't handle party dynamics
      Why is it a problem for a paladin and a warlock to butt heads because one is up toght and the other a demonic little shit? It's funny you want to play these edgy characters, but you're terrified of fictional conflict.
      If your rogue can't use sleight of hand well enough to cheat without the paladin noticit, he's not a very good rogue. Why is a rogue even asking his permission?
      As I rogue, I make dirty deals on the side that only me am the DM are aware of. If I am doing something shady, I don't make it a point to the other members of the party needlessly aware. Do you tell your mom about your dragon dildo collection? Maybe start playing your characters a little better instead of projecting your daddy issues onto the paladins, sweaty.

      >Why is it a problem for a paladin and a warlock to butt heads because one is up toght

      Friendly reminder that if you go all the way back to 1E, the Paladin had a higher hard requirement on Charisma than even the Bard, needing a 17+ on a 3-18 scale. If you're playing your paladin as obnoxiously stuck-up and inflexible rather than a persuasive and charming force of nature who makes everyone around them *want* to be good, you're doing it wrong.

  17. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Its only a problem because GMs or player groups make it a problem. Its like the very idea of a paladin makes them uncomfortable and singles them out specifically. Anyone who says its been "solved" by allowing Evil aligned paladins misses the point of what the problem was to begin with.

  18. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Are you asking as a player or as a demon?

  19. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    What problem, heathen?

  20. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    I generally ban the class, that usually works, but some paladin players will just play LN cavaliers or similar to get around the "no fun police allowed" rule. Ultimately the only thing I have found that truly solves the classic "paladin player initiates PvP at the earliest opportunity" problem is to know your players and for them to know you just don't want it and won't abide it.

  21. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Be honestly glad that your mentor could make it. Then heed his advice and watch your tone.

  22. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    >fantasy games must reflect modern leftism or you're a fascist nazi bad person and probably a jaywalker
    kek
    jej even

  23. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Oaths and vows should determine conduct and use of power to separate themselves from clerics and allow them to be misanthropic cunts without getting their toys taken away.

    They need a stronger melee focus.Their spells should be used exclusively for buffing and Lay on hands should be the biggest bomb heal in the game with a touch requirement but should compete for smite slots. Turn and/or burn.

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