Redpill me know the THAC0 system.

Redpill me know the THAC0 system. I understand that the lower the number the better but I'm confused if the AC says, for example :

15(+4)

Does this mean it should be at 19 or 11?

Once it gets into the negative numbers below zero then how is it calculated?

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  1. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Dawg this entire website gets filtered by Thac0. Don't even waste your time trying /tg/ either cause they're just reddit jr. You're gonna have to try dragonsfoot or some shit.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      I'm starting to believe that no one understands THAC0 beyond the hit below the number to hit enemy.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        Whats not to understand? If a dude has a THAC0 of 10, and you have an AC of -4, his effective THAC0 becomes 14. Simple.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        When you read plus and minus effects you just need to keep them in mind as whether it means a positive or negative bonus and apply it accordingly.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          So plus means to reduce it, thank you.

          Is there any point to the numbers once they get below 0 like -9 etc?

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            Yes since you can try to hit targets that have armor class well below 0.

            • 1 week ago
              Anonymous

              How do you even roll for numbers that go into the minus?

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                You use basic math?

                >For example, a character with a THAC0 of 17 trying to hit a target with an AC of 1 needs a roll of at least 17-1=16 to succeed. This is a chance of 5/20, or 25%. A character with a much lower THAC0 of 5 trying to hit the same target needs a roll of at least 5-1=4. This is a chance of 17/20, or 85%.

                If you have thaco -9 and try to hit target with armor -20 you need to roll 11 or more.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                Wait, so once you go to minus numbers then you just switch to the ascending system? Goddamn this system is fricking moronic.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                It's basic fricking math. Literal elementary school tier shit.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                If THAC0 >= Your roll + Target AC, you hit, it's that simple

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                Meant <=

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                You substract the negative number you mouthbreather. Grade school math.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                THAC0 represents the number you have to roll to hit a target with AC0, so a negative would mean an automatic success
                Target AC is added to your attack roll, so a positive AC would improve your odds, and negative AC would reduce your roll, making it harder to hit

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                20 always hits. 1 always misses

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                Shouldn't it be reversed?

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                No, because high rolls hit and low rolls miss.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            It just works on a sliding scale from 0-20 the same way ascending AC works. They just moved the lowest position to -10. It was common in naval simulation games at the time to calculate it that way. And having Thac0 already calculated with your bonuses you don't have to roll then add all your modifiers every time like all 5e players do.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          Armor class in adnd counts down as it increases in protection.
          Your to hit armor class 0 (thac0) is the number you need to roll on a d20 to hit 0 armor class. This number also drops as it increases in effectiveness.

          So say you're a fighter with a thac0 of 10 and you attack a wolf with an armor class of 10. You need to roll a 0 or above (10-10). In other words, you always hit the wolf unless you roll a critical miss.

          A drow with an AC of -2 would require that you roll 12 (10--2) to hit with 10 thac0. With 5 thac0 you hit on a 7 (5--2), increasing your odds of attacking.

          See this table.

          15 AC with a bonus of 4 would give you 11 AC. Usually this is broken up into base AC and bonus factors because most factors only apply some of the time. A good example is that missile attacks deny the dexterity bonus to armor class (which is why archers are death machines in bg1).

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        it's a terrible system, simplistic and overcomplicated at the same time

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          Ascending is far superior.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            And we found the redditor. Took longer than expected.

            • 1 week ago
              Anonymous

              Imagine justifying this stupid system so you think you stand out lol.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                I don't need to justify shit. It was used in many years for gaming. Just because you needed it dumbed down doesn't mean everyone else is moronic. Now come on, tell us how much weed you smoke.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                Even the creators switched to the superior system. Sorry you wasted your life learning this garbage system lmao.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                No moron. The creators left it at Thac0. Then the company was bought by someone else and they switched it to pander to a lower IQ audience.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                And what does it tell you when no one uses their stupid ass system when everyone bar a few online morons prefer to use it so they can feel "superior" for using a system that is just a waste of time.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                It tells me that you're the dumb frick who they were pandering to and anyone who isn't a mongoloid is still playing an old version. Especially since it's all just piss poor rehashes of old content anyway. Are you just stupid or trans? Is that why you identify with it so strong?

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                Even the OSR is using modern systems. You want to pretend you're playing the older versions but you're still using the modern and superior systems.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                Black person I'm still playing 2e. OSR is just fake OD&D or 1e, of which I already have. 3e was the beginning of a fricked up action economy and 4e was an MMO for the table. 5e is the worst of both with homosexuals and troons making it their entire personality. So again I ask you, are you just dumb or are you gay?

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                Have fun playing your system by yourself or your one other friend you dragged into playing it.

  2. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    make it so that rolls show up in the combat log and see how it calculates hit/miss/crit etc,,

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      >Hit: 1 damage (9 damage resisted)
      FRICK YOU, ICEWIND DALE!!!

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        frick the entire ruleset more like it
        damage resistance is just broken

  3. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    All THAC0 is a flat number. Anything in brackets is an outside variable. Usually a saving throw bonus/penalty.

  4. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    >15(+4)
    It means it's 15 ac as far as I can remember. Probably some armor that is weak to crushing weapons (like most of them), hence the +4.

  5. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    >For example, a character with a THAC0 of 17 trying to hit a target with an AC of 1 needs a roll of at least 17-1=16 to succeed. This is a chance of 5/20, or 25%. A character with a much lower THAC0 of 5 trying to hit the same target needs a roll of at least 5-1=4. This is a chance of 17/20, or 85%.

  6. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    How do you pronounce "THAC0"? I always read "taco" in my mind

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Thak Oh

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Yeah, basically like that, with a sharp Oh.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Thay (th is pronounced like Thursday)
      Coh (pronounced like comb or coke)

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        It's Ah, n Ayy, you fricking clown.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Thak Zero

  7. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Just play better games instead

  8. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    THAC0 is a weird system because it tends to invert the difficulty curve, ie the game is hardest right at the beginning before hit get gold armour.

  9. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    this game is a chore. it really beats me how someone could find this fun.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      >it really beats me how someone could find this fun.
      It's okay, not everyone should have the taste and intelligence required to enjoy games like BG1.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        The stories in BG1 are fine but the gameplay is dogshit.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          >the gameplay is dogshit.
          for (you) maybe
          building your character and roleplaying is gameplay
          the combat is fine for what it is

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          This. extremely lame and boring gameplay, i'd rather play Starcraft

  10. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    >Redpill me know the THAC0 system.
    It was designed in the 1970s when most DMs rolled all the dice themselves, so the math is one-sided.
    The rest of it is 1st grade math that apparently they don't teach in ESLland.

  11. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    I think it's 15 and just shows some bonuses in brakes.

  12. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    I beat the entire game just getting my taco as low as possible and that worked for me. I have 0 idea how any of it works though, which is a shame because I don't think I ever will.

  13. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    You need to roll the difference between THAC0 and AC:

    THAC0 = 15, AC = 5, you need to roll the difference - at least 10.

    THAC0: 15, AC = -1, you need to roll at least 16.

  14. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    I think this topic proves no one knows how this system works.

  15. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    The only really dumb part about THAC0 is that you get items that say "Thaco+1", but they actually mean -1.

  16. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    What is it actually supposed to represent is my question. Just how unwieldy a weapon is to use or the weapon's armor penetration or something else?

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Armor Class. The lower the better, so "First Class" (AC1) is better than "Second Class" (AC2). AC covers both "better armor" but also "better dodging".

      THAC0: How hard it is to damage/hit someone with "the best"* class (so AC0).

      *of course it can get better (lower than 0).

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        I apologize if I sound really baby dumb here but as in what a weapon with a better THAC0 in the fantasy world represents compared to a worse THAC0. Like you think of something having a higher damage stat/range and you intuit that the blade is sharper or the spell is stronger or whatever, would a weapon with a lower THAC0 be better at piercing armor, for example? Or would it be really light or easy for even the most untrained dude to use it properly?

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          Yeah, something like that. Better THAC0 just means all these things at once. Easier to land a hit on dodging enemy, easier to penetrate armor. AC in DnD is already pretty abstract, because I think most of editions use AC as "how hard it is to damage someone". It doesn't matter if it's hard because someone wears heavy armor or it is hard because someone can easily evade attacks.

          You can just flip the values around, let's say AC = 20 is the armor value.

          Then we can either:
          1. Keep THAC20 as "to hit AC20". And this still would equal 20. That means to damage someone with 20 AC you need to roll at least 20.

          2. Change wording to something like "versus AC bonus". With base 0, that would also mean you need to roll 20 to damage AC20, but then, hurray, we are in more intuitive system were +1 VACB would just mean +1 to every roll.

          Returning to your question, once again, it's all abstract. In better/more complex system you will have different stat for evades and armor and it's easier to imagine why one weapon is easier to use vs armor.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      It's better if you think of the numbers as a big abstraction of all the contributing factors you can imagine.

  17. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    AC - want big number
    THAC0 - want low number
    there (You) go

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      >AC - want big number
      For your enemies, right?

  18. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    I always imagined Thaco as a gay mexican.

  19. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Thac0 is just a heavyhanded way of protraying how accurate your character is with the high number meaning worse accuracy.

  20. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    >playing the dark spire
    >it uses that

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