There's a difference between an artist having political commentary, and political brainwashing being mandatory gay. That's why no one gave a fuck then and everyone gives a fuck now. Not to defend Kojima really, he is a freemason after all.
There is a huge difference between "politics as philosophy" games such as Deus Ex and Bioshock, and "politics as popculture" that you see in newer games.
In the first group you have games that ponder on the moral foundations and the natural consequences of ideologies and economic systems, and the characters act as vehicles of those philosophies. And all this also ties into the main themes and lessons of the games.
In the second group, the creators view talking about politics with the same tone, care, and depth that they would making a reference toward a celebrity or a recent meme. It is often vapid, unsubstantial, and tone-breaking in it's lack of subtlety. An example would be Wolfenstein's moment of white-as-a-sheet BJ Blaskowitz saying "come at me you white-ass fascist pigs" to Nazi enemies, which will feel weirdly race-specific to someone unaware of context but gets even stupider to those who know the context: the game's attempt to piggyback on the political fads of that time.
So when Andrew Ryan talks about the moral failings of an underwater city that escaped from the rest of society, I feel like I'm listening to politics and philosophy. But when a modern game tries to stand on a soapbox and talk about black lives mattering or ACAB or trans issues, I'm not feeling like the game is being political or saying anything worth listening to. I just find it immersion-breaking, it might as well mention Taylor Swift or something.
I'm not saying you're wrong but I am going to say that the line between the two groups you made can get very blurry. For example Final Fantasy 7 is one of the most beloved games in existence. But it's very, very easy to reduce that game down to capitalism bad. Which would stand in the same circles in the 90s as black lives matter in current day. This isn't me shitting on Final Fantasy 7 because that game is my favorite game in existence. But I do think there's more to it than just that when it comes to games commenting on how people should live or how the world at large should be or just commenting on people's lives at all
I'm not saying you're wrong but I am going to say that the line between the two groups you made can get very blurry. For example Final Fantasy 7 is one of the most beloved games in existence. But it's very, very easy to reduce that game down to capitalism bad. Which would stand in the same circles in the 90s as black lives matter in current day. This isn't me shitting on Final Fantasy 7 because that game is my favorite game in existence. But I do think there's more to it than just that when it comes to games commenting on how people should live or how the world at large should be or just commenting on people's lives at all
I think it comes down to how preachy it is. Like I brought up FF7 and that game is capitalism bad. The biggest apostle against Shinra is Barret. And everything Barret says is true, the Planet is alive and Shinra is killing it. But that's not why he's doing the things he's doing. Barrett's motivations are actually far more personal than what you first see in the game. It makes him more than just the guy on the soapbox and he becomes a character who's reacting to a tragedy in an understandable way even if that way is wrong. It doesn't mean suddenly Shinra is validated. Just that the game isn't just preaching that capitalism bad.
A work that isn't too preachy will most likely be good or better. And even if a work is too preachy, if it's so brilliant in its analysis and understanding of the human condition then it would still pass.
Preachiness is an important indicator of forced political agenda, but it relates to quality as well
>Preachiness is an important indicator of forced political agenda, but it relates to quality as well
I wanna bitch at 7 Remake for this. We talked about it in another thread but the Honey Bee Inn segment in Remake is fucking stupid. Because Honey Bee Inn is supposed to be a sleazy love motel where people in the ghetto can have a relatively clean place to fuck. But in the Remake it's a broadway show. And Andrea is cupping Cloud's face and assuring him that the virtues of beauty isn't limited to gender. And if you're like me who gets overly absorbed into these worlds, your first question would be: what the fuck is Andrea talking about? Did Cloud imply this was something he was struggling with? Does Andrea live here? And is he searching out people who look like protagonists to build his shows around?
But it makes a lot more sense when you realize the updated Honey Bee Inn segment was intended for the players, not for the narrative. The justification is out of universe, not in universe. And just to confirm my theory I looked it up and what do I find?
>Given how famous the cross-dressing was in the original FINAL FANTASY VII, we were aware that people would have high expectations for the remake. We knew we had to do it in a way that both lived up to those expectations, but took modern sensibilities into consideration.
>For example, fans these days expect stories and dialogue in games to go beyond stereotypical depictions of gender. Through Andrea’s lines and the lyrics of the backing track, Stand Up, we tried to build in a positive and supportive message for Cloud during his cross-dressing scene.
>Through Andrea’s lines and the lyrics of the backing track, Stand Up
So they put chud messaging in and even had subliminal chud lyrics in the background song? So FFVII Remake is literally trying to brainwash it's playerbase?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
I don't even think it's that since that would imply the writers at SE were forward thinking enough and had enough understanding of people to pull it off. I think they just didn't want the chud mob to hop on the game but they couldn't just not do it at all so instead they picked the shitty middle ground. And it's not a matter of
Is there an example of a game that does this "politics as pop culture" thing in which you agree with the political message? I wonder, are people upset that politics are in their games, or are people upset that politics they disagree with are in their games?
where it's politics I disagree with. It's virtue signaling with no backbone. Really? Beauty has no gender huh? Is this gonna get followed up in anyway? Is Cloud gonna be gay this time around? In the OG Cloud cross-dressing was a joke? A ridiculous way of getting into Corneo's stronghold without drawing attention. And everyone who doesn't fall for it highlights how ridiculous it is. Including Cloud. But it's taken seriously here but SE has absolutely zero intentions of following up on it so what's the fucking point? It's just taking 30 minutes to preach it's okay to be a chud before getting back to what we're supposed to be doing.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>I don't even think it's that since that would imply the writers at SE were forward thinking enough and had enough understanding of people to pull it off.
It's not them, that would imply that SE cares at all about the messaging, it's about the injection of investment money that came in and made that shit mandatory. Wouldn't put it past them. The background lyrics thing is a lot.
Parasyte is my favorite anime despite the insanely convoluted environmental preaching at the end. It's just a good enough show where it doesn't kill it for me, but yes.
>But when a modern game tries to stand on a soapbox and talk about black lives mattering or ACAB or trans issues, I'm not feeling like the game is being political or saying anything worth listening to. I just find it immersion-breaking, it might as well mention Taylor Swift or something.
I wanna schitzorant about one of my favorite strong womyn characters for a second. I really like Yuna. There's 2 scenes that really cinched that for me. The first one is when you're leaving Luca and she tells you that whenever she's feeling stressed she just laughs. Which initially comes off as anime bullshit until you put it in the greater context that she's going to die at the end of her mission and she knows that. So she's intentionally swallowing whatever personal feelings or fears she may have for the sake of her mission and trying to keep everyone happy to avoid thinking about the obvious.
The other scene I really like is the Macalania Lake one. Not the kiss but the scene just before that. Tidus gives her an out. Just give up on her mission and go with him. The church has excommunicated her. Everyone thinks she's a villain. She has no investment in any of these people. At least now she gets to live. And she seriously considers it but at the end of the conversation she says >I can't...I just can't
Even knowing that she's going to die and that she has nothing to gain and that she's going to lose out on her life with the guy she likes she's still determined to carry out her mission to the end because she personally has an imperative to see this through. Even if it hurts. Which you have to have some respect for.
I think Yuna is a strong character. Not in the traditional sense of doing back flips and grappling with her thighs but in the sense that she really does have an unbreakable will in her game. Not because she's forced to but because she herself refuses to settle for anything less than what she wants. To the long where after meeting the patron saint of her world, she looks her in the eye and tells her to go fuck herself because the fake peace she offers her isn't good enough. She's not strong in the sense that she can do a triple backflip and take out 5 guys in a single move. But rather her resolve in the face of adversity.
Is there an example of a game that does this "politics as pop culture" thing in which you agree with the political message? I wonder, are people upset that politics are in their games, or are people upset that politics they disagree with are in their games?
my political views are deranged and retarded. in order to have a pop culture referencing my political views you would need something like pepe showing up and screaming "TOTAL moron DEATH". at first I would probably laugh at the absurdity of it (and wonder what the fuck the dev was thinking). if that and other Ganker references kept popping up constantly then id get annoyed
not a game, but a few years ago there was a mel gibson movie where hes santa claus and hes retired because of chinese sweatshops or some crap. he goes on a 5 minute rant about politics while supporting music plays in the background. I thought that was stupid. did he expect people to stand up and cheer in the theaters? it really took me out of the movie
When people say "political" they really mean "preachy". The worst feeling in the world is somebody trying to convert you to a religion that you don't believe in. Especially when that somebody is your moral and intellectual inferior (= all videogame and movie writers).
>not political
Bioshock's good ending
The first time I beat the game I didn't notice the hand was black. Reallly ruined the game for me after that.
Game is political only if I dislike it
yeah man I miss those days
MGS and bioshock are political, but also aren't trying to convince children that it's fine to castrate themselves
>the guy on the pedophile site thinks we believe he cares about child safety
>cutting your penis off is wrong
>SHUT UP ANON YOU'RE A PEDOPHILE
Nice projection lmao
There's a difference between an artist having political commentary, and political brainwashing being mandatory gay. That's why no one gave a fuck then and everyone gives a fuck now. Not to defend Kojima really, he is a freemason after all.
Politics is when blacks, gays and women
>All games are political!
Okay, what are the political ideologies found in pong?
It represents the endless struggle of my personal political opinions (good) and the other political opinions (bad)
Bros..
There is a huge difference between "politics as philosophy" games such as Deus Ex and Bioshock, and "politics as popculture" that you see in newer games.
In the first group you have games that ponder on the moral foundations and the natural consequences of ideologies and economic systems, and the characters act as vehicles of those philosophies. And all this also ties into the main themes and lessons of the games.
In the second group, the creators view talking about politics with the same tone, care, and depth that they would making a reference toward a celebrity or a recent meme. It is often vapid, unsubstantial, and tone-breaking in it's lack of subtlety. An example would be Wolfenstein's moment of white-as-a-sheet BJ Blaskowitz saying "come at me you white-ass fascist pigs" to Nazi enemies, which will feel weirdly race-specific to someone unaware of context but gets even stupider to those who know the context: the game's attempt to piggyback on the political fads of that time.
So when Andrew Ryan talks about the moral failings of an underwater city that escaped from the rest of society, I feel like I'm listening to politics and philosophy. But when a modern game tries to stand on a soapbox and talk about black lives mattering or ACAB or trans issues, I'm not feeling like the game is being political or saying anything worth listening to. I just find it immersion-breaking, it might as well mention Taylor Swift or something.
No one will read your post but I appreciate it.
I'm not saying you're wrong but I am going to say that the line between the two groups you made can get very blurry. For example Final Fantasy 7 is one of the most beloved games in existence. But it's very, very easy to reduce that game down to capitalism bad. Which would stand in the same circles in the 90s as black lives matter in current day. This isn't me shitting on Final Fantasy 7 because that game is my favorite game in existence. But I do think there's more to it than just that when it comes to games commenting on how people should live or how the world at large should be or just commenting on people's lives at all
Nailed it.
It also comes down to quality of writing.
I think it comes down to how preachy it is. Like I brought up FF7 and that game is capitalism bad. The biggest apostle against Shinra is Barret. And everything Barret says is true, the Planet is alive and Shinra is killing it. But that's not why he's doing the things he's doing. Barrett's motivations are actually far more personal than what you first see in the game. It makes him more than just the guy on the soapbox and he becomes a character who's reacting to a tragedy in an understandable way even if that way is wrong. It doesn't mean suddenly Shinra is validated. Just that the game isn't just preaching that capitalism bad.
A work that isn't too preachy will most likely be good or better. And even if a work is too preachy, if it's so brilliant in its analysis and understanding of the human condition then it would still pass.
Preachiness is an important indicator of forced political agenda, but it relates to quality as well
>Preachiness is an important indicator of forced political agenda, but it relates to quality as well
I wanna bitch at 7 Remake for this. We talked about it in another thread but the Honey Bee Inn segment in Remake is fucking stupid. Because Honey Bee Inn is supposed to be a sleazy love motel where people in the ghetto can have a relatively clean place to fuck. But in the Remake it's a broadway show. And Andrea is cupping Cloud's face and assuring him that the virtues of beauty isn't limited to gender. And if you're like me who gets overly absorbed into these worlds, your first question would be: what the fuck is Andrea talking about? Did Cloud imply this was something he was struggling with? Does Andrea live here? And is he searching out people who look like protagonists to build his shows around?
But it makes a lot more sense when you realize the updated Honey Bee Inn segment was intended for the players, not for the narrative. The justification is out of universe, not in universe. And just to confirm my theory I looked it up and what do I find?
>Given how famous the cross-dressing was in the original FINAL FANTASY VII, we were aware that people would have high expectations for the remake. We knew we had to do it in a way that both lived up to those expectations, but took modern sensibilities into consideration.
>For example, fans these days expect stories and dialogue in games to go beyond stereotypical depictions of gender. Through Andrea’s lines and the lyrics of the backing track, Stand Up, we tried to build in a positive and supportive message for Cloud during his cross-dressing scene.
https://www.square-enix-games.com/en_US/news/honeybee-inn-final-fantasy-vii-remake-intergrade
This is the difference between introducing an idea and preaching
>Through Andrea’s lines and the lyrics of the backing track, Stand Up
So they put chud messaging in and even had subliminal chud lyrics in the background song? So FFVII Remake is literally trying to brainwash it's playerbase?
I don't even think it's that since that would imply the writers at SE were forward thinking enough and had enough understanding of people to pull it off. I think they just didn't want the chud mob to hop on the game but they couldn't just not do it at all so instead they picked the shitty middle ground. And it's not a matter of
where it's politics I disagree with. It's virtue signaling with no backbone. Really? Beauty has no gender huh? Is this gonna get followed up in anyway? Is Cloud gonna be gay this time around? In the OG Cloud cross-dressing was a joke? A ridiculous way of getting into Corneo's stronghold without drawing attention. And everyone who doesn't fall for it highlights how ridiculous it is. Including Cloud. But it's taken seriously here but SE has absolutely zero intentions of following up on it so what's the fucking point? It's just taking 30 minutes to preach it's okay to be a chud before getting back to what we're supposed to be doing.
>I don't even think it's that since that would imply the writers at SE were forward thinking enough and had enough understanding of people to pull it off.
It's not them, that would imply that SE cares at all about the messaging, it's about the injection of investment money that came in and made that shit mandatory. Wouldn't put it past them. The background lyrics thing is a lot.
Parasyte is my favorite anime despite the insanely convoluted environmental preaching at the end. It's just a good enough show where it doesn't kill it for me, but yes.
>But when a modern game tries to stand on a soapbox and talk about black lives mattering or ACAB or trans issues, I'm not feeling like the game is being political or saying anything worth listening to. I just find it immersion-breaking, it might as well mention Taylor Swift or something.
Whats a game you feel does this?
NTA. Spiderman:Mike’s morales. That game does this.
Lev in TLOU2. That post also mentioned New Colossus, that game has a story that feels like a far-left hijacking of the previous game's narrative.
any game that tries to make womyn strong by making them powerful with a juvenile male oriented view of strength (physical dominance and aggression)
I wanna schitzorant about one of my favorite strong womyn characters for a second. I really like Yuna. There's 2 scenes that really cinched that for me. The first one is when you're leaving Luca and she tells you that whenever she's feeling stressed she just laughs. Which initially comes off as anime bullshit until you put it in the greater context that she's going to die at the end of her mission and she knows that. So she's intentionally swallowing whatever personal feelings or fears she may have for the sake of her mission and trying to keep everyone happy to avoid thinking about the obvious.
The other scene I really like is the Macalania Lake one. Not the kiss but the scene just before that. Tidus gives her an out. Just give up on her mission and go with him. The church has excommunicated her. Everyone thinks she's a villain. She has no investment in any of these people. At least now she gets to live. And she seriously considers it but at the end of the conversation she says
>I can't...I just can't
Even knowing that she's going to die and that she has nothing to gain and that she's going to lose out on her life with the guy she likes she's still determined to carry out her mission to the end because she personally has an imperative to see this through. Even if it hurts. Which you have to have some respect for.
I think Yuna is a strong character. Not in the traditional sense of doing back flips and grappling with her thighs but in the sense that she really does have an unbreakable will in her game. Not because she's forced to but because she herself refuses to settle for anything less than what she wants. To the long where after meeting the patron saint of her world, she looks her in the eye and tells her to go fuck herself because the fake peace she offers her isn't good enough. She's not strong in the sense that she can do a triple backflip and take out 5 guys in a single move. But rather her resolve in the face of adversity.
Is there an example of a game that does this "politics as pop culture" thing in which you agree with the political message? I wonder, are people upset that politics are in their games, or are people upset that politics they disagree with are in their games?
my political views are deranged and retarded. in order to have a pop culture referencing my political views you would need something like pepe showing up and screaming "TOTAL moron DEATH". at first I would probably laugh at the absurdity of it (and wonder what the fuck the dev was thinking). if that and other Ganker references kept popping up constantly then id get annoyed
not a game, but a few years ago there was a mel gibson movie where hes santa claus and hes retired because of chinese sweatshops or some crap. he goes on a 5 minute rant about politics while supporting music plays in the background. I thought that was stupid. did he expect people to stand up and cheer in the theaters? it really took me out of the movie
Ken Levine (gnomish) makes 20 hour long game to criticize the work of Ayn Rand (gnomish.) Why did he do it?
When people say "political" they really mean "preachy". The worst feeling in the world is somebody trying to convert you to a religion that you don't believe in. Especially when that somebody is your moral and intellectual inferior (= all videogame and movie writers).
Vaush is a pedophile and horse fucker by his own admittance