Sandbox MMORPGs

Why do all sandbox open world PvP MMORPGs fail, Ganker? What is it about this system that just doesn't work, is it because of whiny carebears or do people just not want to live in a virtual world with choices & consequences anymore?

And will Ashes of Creation be successful with its innovative risk & reward system?

  1. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    1. RPG systems and PvP are hard to do in general because of a huge amount of factors going in to balance. If you dont have big brain people in charge itll be shit to play and the game will die.

    2. even though it feels like everyone wants a pvp game, the fact is a minority of people want a full pvp game. and many of that minority dont want pvp, they want easy marks. the moment something like arenas shows up they disappear.

    3. Because the target audience is so small, and MMOs are so expensive, its a hard combination to begin with. If your PvE side of the game isnt good enough to keep the cash flow, the game will die.

    4. Full PvP games naturally prune themselves of players. Especially if its full loot drop pvp. Someone dies and loses their stuff they have two choices. A: Do it all again for another 5 seconds of pvp gameplay. B: Go play a genre where PvP works. People tend to choose B if they arent stuck in sunk cost.

    5. People will optimize the fun out of a game. If theres land control, everyone will be in the guild that holds that land. Things like that.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >4. Full PvP games naturally prune themselves of players. Especially if its full loot drop pvp. Someone dies and loses their stuff they have two choices. A: Do it all again for another 5 seconds of pvp gameplay. B: Go play a genre where PvP works. People tend to choose B if they arent stuck in sunk cost.
      Why don't they just play in a guild that will easily replace their stuff?

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        A valid option. Though with gamers today, its not the one thats often taken.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Why, are people fucking stupid? That's how life works, you gotta find a group to leech from until you find a better one and move up in the world. How do they even live their lives IRL if they don't know basic facts?

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Strikes me as a moles all the way down bit, guilds leeching off other guilds as resources deplete until eventually it's consolidated into one or two megaguilds

        Either that or gear is easy enough to come by that guilds have no problem passing shit out to noobs, which arguably makes guilds pointless if that much easy gear is flying around

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Strikes me as a moles all the way down bit, guilds leeching off other guilds as resources deplete until eventually it's consolidated into one or two megaguilds
          So the same capitalist system that always naturally happens in any field of human endeavor?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            No retard we're talking MMO guilds

            [...]

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      90% of mmo players arent into pvp
      and the 10% of tryhards make sure they dont enjoy it either

      Mmo pvpers are subhuman

      Jesus fuck, since when did "sandbox" mean the same thing as "open PVP literally all the time"? That's all anyone ever talks about with regard to game design instead of expression of character, opportunity for creativity, community events, game feel that is actually enjoyable, or events that actually affect future game content instead of scripted, instanced dungeons.
      Fucking Splatoon is a better MMO than the shit that comes out now but MMO tards are so far down the NEET hole that any design that doesn't match their item-grinding economy-driven macro-binding Excel boner isn't even worth attempting.
      I will not be taking questions, goodnight.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I mean if you can't kill people how is it a sandbox?

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >he doesn't know

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        in the op where it says the thread is about "sandbox open world PvP MMORPGs"

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        real life has open PVP all the time

  2. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    90% of mmo players arent into pvp
    and the 10% of tryhards make sure they dont enjoy it either

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >90% of mmo players arent into pvp
      so the pvp players think when only 10% ever even participate.

  3. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Because the kind of people who want these games aren't the kind of people you want to play games with.

  4. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Mmo pvpers are subhuman

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Have you tried getting good?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      mmo players are subhumans. raiders are the worst though

  5. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    AOC will massively flop, its been in dev for what like 8 years? with multiple different "iterations" form a BR mode to what they have now. way too lofty ambitions for an inexperienced studio, that is focusing more on retarded node systems, then making the combat, and gameplay feel good.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      They began actual production in June 2017 with 15 people. Now they have 120-130 people. Their development timeline is pretty good for a fully-fledged MMO with so many features and a huge world. For example, WoW took 5 years, BDO took 5-6 years, GW2 took 6 years, TESO took 7 years, and these were from studios that were already fully staffed from the beginning and had financial backing from the get-go.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Except all of those are actual games with actual NPC filled worlds and handcrafted worlds. This is a flat empty nothing burger that's taken 8 years all the same.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >This is a flat empty nothing burger
          Not even going to engage with you on this, considering that you're just arguing in bad faith.

          Also, what world do you live in where June 2017 -> November 2022 = 8 years?

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Except all of those are actual games with actual NPC filled worlds and handcrafted worlds.
          ...I'm sorry, what? bro did you just say that World of Warcraft in 2004 was a "handcrafted world filled with NPCs"? Because holy fuck do I know that you didn't play WoW back then.

          Also, AoC has only been in development for like 5 years, and a big chunk of that was before UE5 even existed.

  6. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Hard to progress and not get griefed in solo, most MMO players want to play solo and only group for content

  7. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Most of them aren't really "PvP" it's either more of a griefing system or an all out gear/numbers check where skill is the least important aspect at work.

    A more subtle system is what you want to go for, SWG had one that made sense lore wise.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      TEF in SWG was easily abused. Other than that it was just a flagging system like New World and everything else that isn't an always on PvP game.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Jedi/Sith and Bounty Hunters had reasons to fight beyond just wanting to annoy someone.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Yeah I remember the riveting Jedi PvP where they just got their guild members to stand on a guild hall roof and killed them one by one to get force XP.

  8. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >join sandbox MMO
    >absolutely every single pixel of land is claimed
    >leave sandbox MMO

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Yeah isn't AOC going to have a land claim system like that too? Shit is gonna kill them in the long run because any newcomer that comes in is going to be instantly turned off when the entire map is claimed by streamers and mega guilds.

      MMOPVP just isn't that interesting. Especially when its the main appeal of the game. Why the fuck would I want to basically join a match where every character is leagues ahead of me and I would never stand a chance unless I no life the game to catch up to their power level.
      If I'm gonna pvp I'll play a fighter or a shooter or a moba.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I asked them about this issue because every MMORPG like that ends up with one group consolidating power and holding onto it forever, and they acted like they had no clue what I'm talking about, they handwaved it with groups breaking up through some nebulous politics.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Super hyped about a game with devs that have no foresight and are just hoping problems that have plagued games exactly like theirs somehow won't be a problem for them.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I really don't get it, the main dude literally played Lineage 2 and Archeage for like 2 decades, he should know how it works.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              I assume he was in the superguild then and didn't even notice.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Yes, he was leading those guilds and shitting on people and got banned for RMT a bunch of times.

                Yet he claims he will ban RMT from his game and griefing will be discouraged and so on...

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Steven Sharif = Sorcerer, you can see he was still playing as Sorc and RMTing as recently as 2 years ago, got banned then too.

                https://podbay.fm/p/capsized-an-archeage-podcast/e/1414883855

                Here's a podcast about him from old Archeage in 2014.

                >People on our server, Kyrios, seem to really hate The White Order. And Gank Bus. And anyone big enough to be a problem. Sorcerer has always been a big RMT’er, but at least in ArcheAge, thats not against the rules if done using APEX. There’s a 9 page post on the forums where people are speculating Sorcerer’s morality. People are actually saying that he infiltrated their guild to break it up from the inside, thus increasing his numbers. There are also claims in this thread that he was banned from Lineage 2 for e-raping a character. Sorcerer denies this. It’s as if he’s a Mini-Mittani. I dug around a little bit and it looks like SharifTheWhite, clan leader of TheWhiteOrder in Lineage 2 was in fact banned for some reason. Some alleged that SharifTheWhite used bots, as did many in his clan. In any case he seemed to be quite hated by a number of people. There is a video on youtube from alpha of a character in The White Order guild named SharifTheWhite being kidnapped. Does this mean that SharifTheWhite and Sorcerer are the same guy? In the video Sharif was AFK fishing and someone on the video commented that AFK fishing is “…considered botting by most of the community”. Is it really?

                This is the guy spending $30mil of his money to make a PvP game for what purpose exactly?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                To have a place he can RMT in without getting banned as he'd own the place, duh

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                His buddies are already doing exactly that on the Archeage private server, why isn't he just playing with them. It's so weird.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Not enough of a power trip anymore, I suppose.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >e-raping
                what does this mean

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Probably exactly what it sounds like.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                how can you rape someone over the internet if the "victim" can just log out

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                lmfao how can a bullet hit you just move dude just don't let your atoms be in the same spacetime continuum as its atoms

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                you can't possibly be seriously comparing dodging a bullet to logging out of a videogame

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                ok what about a rock falling on your head

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                YAR YAR
                HUMP HUMP

  9. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    MMOs are fundamentally flawed. The Massive part of the MO that has it all break apart.

  10. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I don't play pvp content in mmo's, only pve

  11. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Basically: everyone dreams about being that big cock godlike PvP player crushing newbies like beer cans, but very few people have the time, skill and dedication to actually become one.
    So the game comes out and all those hype warriors end up falling behind to your neets and streamers who play 16 hours a day and who completely shit on you.
    People start bitching, claiming that they're also paying customers who deserve equal chance, the devs start hindering progression in PvP and make it irrelevant, turning the RPG into another esport.
    Except even with the caps in place people still get gapped by balance, skill etc. Bitching continues, my race/class/faction sucks, nerf xyz. People leave in droves because in order to balance the game you either kill the open world PvP and introduce instanced PvP like blizzard did (by this point your game isn't a RPG nor is it an MMO) or you leave it unchecked until everyone plays in the same faction, thus killing the whole purpose of your game.

  12. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    People that like PvP also tend to be huge bitches.

  13. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Eve has had 32k online and has 180k active players
    the main problem that MMORPGs """"fail"""" is cuz retards keep trying to play new ones that are doomed to fail due to no content.
    just play tried and true games that have been around 20 years and will be around for 20 more

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Eve has had 32k online and has 180k active players
      How many of those are bots and multiboxers? I can't help but wonder, since you have certain autists simply parking their alts at gates in order to monitor traffic. I remember one corp had like 12 of those at gates at all times.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        It's an average of like three accounts per player.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        the whole "there's only 100 players and they're all running 100 accounts" shit is a myth.
        like 3 dudes in PL run 16 accounts so everyone assumes everyone does it

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Well in the least, the game encourages you to make an alt - through the referral system.
          I, as I imagine many other players have, made an account, only to find out I was missing out on a 1m skill points, so I made an another account.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >through the referral system.
            referring yourself is against ToS and has been for a while
            when they added skill injectors ppl were abusing referrals to farm stupid amounts of skillpoints to sell on the in-game market

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            also they increased the cost of the monthly sub and upped the graphics requirements (dx12, RTX etc) so even top end PCs struggle to run 2 accounts now

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >upped the graphics requirements (dx12, RTX etc)
              wtf

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The same EVE that had to introduce sweeping changes to the security system because the amount of accounts went down to 10k (which is probably 1-2k actual players) due to PKers ganking every noob in safe space with 40 multiboxed suicide gank alts?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Eve online
      wait wait wait shit something happened wait wait afk repeat

  14. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I miss Life is Feudal MMO

  15. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Why hasn't a single fucking MMO copied Wildy? Seems like such a no brainer thing.

  16. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Concept of lazy devs.

  17. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I don't get why so many indie developers get into making MMOs in the first place. It is pretty much the gaming equivalent of biting off more than you can chew.

  18. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I want a world to explore, with hand crafted environments, npcs, questlines and challenges.
    I don't want Timmy aged 13's gank squad party rodeo as I explore penis shaped buildings with nothing in them while everyone bitches on mapchat calling each other gays.

    If I wanted the latter, I'd just be content with coming here which I am obviously not as nobody is and this place is hell.
    If I wanted PvP with superficial RPG/Action mechanics, I'd play a MOBA or a Souls game or any of the other thousands upon thousands of games designed around it without the padding of an unimpressive grinding treadmill in-between. This aren't "consequences", they are annoyances that don't engage you at all because there is nothing to feel attached towards because the world is meaningless and hollow and so are their denizens.

    Simple as.

  19. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    New World devs talked about their attempt at freeform sandbox durimg the game's alpha test, it resulted in the multiplayer systems dying because griefers endlessly griefed the PVE and actual PVP players until both quit the PVP entirely, and then they themselves quit because there was no one left to grief.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      new world devs are morons that ruined their own game to appease subhuman low iq garbage assmunchgoy

  20. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The problem with PvP MMOs is that they have too many players present on the screen at the same time, if there was a way to limit the amount so you wouldn't get ganked by a raid it would be fine.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Why the hell would a raid team gank a loner like yourself?

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Why wouldn't they? Have you played a PvP MMO before?

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Because they could? You don't get these games at all do you.

          One or two fags I get, but never have I seen a raid team ganking a solo player. Apparently corpse camping is a reportable offence in AoC, so that should help alleviate some pains, I guess

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Reports in PvP games
            eloel. Those go directly into the trash and not a single ban is ever handed, unless the chatbox is full of them going moron moron moron ad infinitum.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Apparently corpse camping is a reportable offence in AoC
            That means two things: 1) it's going to happen anyway, good luck getting a GM response after a week, and 2) there will be so many false reports from people using the GM to PvP the other group that it will either be completely ignored or punished completely randomly.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Because they could? You don't get these games at all do you.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Marauding parties were fun.
      Of course it was not fun at that moment when Redridgeboss stomps you - a player 20 levels lower than you, but calling in reinforcements, banding together, forming a defense force - that was when I felt like the WoW rereleases, be it private servers or official, made sense and felt like they did back in the day.

      It was years ago, but I still think fondly of hiding from that guy, while I tried to hit high enough level.

  21. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    AOC is trying to do too much and should have released years ago.
    MMO devs need to hire a "No" man, strictly to keep them in check and not overscope

  22. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I look at it as a function of entertainment gained from time invested, something most adults will eventually come to appreciate

    MMOs are a huge time sink for very little reward, and PvP essentially hands random people the power to commit the ultimate crime: deprive you of your time

  23. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >We recently joined White Order on a fleet to kill Death Law (easterners) who were trying to kill the Kraken. It was great fun. Later that day we went with TWO to try to kill the Kraken, but the raid was derailed by Gank Bus and associates (our own faction). Sorcerer called out Gank Bus saying: “When you are able to kill the kraken, then come stop us. But to stop us, then not try yourselves serves no purpose. Then you just give it to the enemy faction. How can you not understand that lol” SpecialK of Gank Bus has this to say of White Order: “The fact that your claim to fame, and idea of a challenge is killing the Kraken makes me chuckle. You do realize that the extent of that fight is your GM rolling face left to right while you and the rest of the paraplegic lemmings pelt it with your tiny balls? Right?” he continues to comment on how White Order members might proceed to remove parts of themselves from other parts of Sorcerer, but we won’t repeat that.

    >Interesting screenshot of discussion between Sorcerer and a Gank Bus member, Nisel. Sorcerer says: “Stealing packs benefits Gank Bus. Gank Bus does not wish to allow greens to turn in their packs. Gank Bus is essentially red.” At first it seems lame that our own faction would come to kill us, but I wonder if this would all make more sense from an EVE perspective of no real factions except player-based ones…

    Interestingly, Ashes of Creation will have no real faction except player-based ones.

    Which will of course turn into either two competing l33t PvP alliances, so you'll have two choices of masters to slave for, or just one l33t PvP group preventing everyone else on the server from doing anything.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The latter option is the only possible outcome. It's exactly what happened in New World and that's with New World already forcing people into lesser factions for periods of 60 days.

  24. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I've never played a sandbox mmo. I want to see how it feels like to play an mmo where there are no loading screens and the world is actually a living breathing world and where exploration actually matters and you can't just fly over with a Nissan supra gtr mount at unbelievable speeds. I also like the concept of open world non instance dungeons and content. I have only ever played instanced dungeons and want to see how an open one would feel to play through. Idk why everyones hating on this game I'm kinda excited as I only have ever played themepark mmos like FFXIV

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Me too, too bad that never existed and will never exist.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Because nothing of that will actually be in the game.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      You are describing BDO

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Except there's not much incentive for exploration in BDO. The lack of dungeons and loot you can find hidden away basically means that outside of PvP (which mostly consists of clan wars) you're mostly just going to mob fields to grind and level up.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          That's not true though. You need to explore to complete journals and knowledge tiers, both of which give great bonuses. There is also just exploring for the sake of fun, since there are tons of shit to find that has been clearly hand placed around, makes the world great to discover. Most of aren't grinding areas at all.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        BDO is bretty great lately once you tube out the terribly dissonant character models with Mary sue dresscode and take it as an exploration comfy game. The moment you let the gear autism settle you are already dead though.

  25. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Why do all sandbox open world PvP MMORPGs fail, Ganker?
    garden gnomeS
    E
    W
    S

    Look at ArcheAge, people fucking loved that game, but they had to go all out on the P2W.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      How would you stop P2W?

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Subscription.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          How does that stop anything though? Just pay a dude in Discord for the BiS weapon? Or pay him to sabotage the castle siege so you get a castle. Or pay him to disband his guild so that you get l33t guild recruits. And so on.

  26. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Just play Albion if you want a decent sandbox MMO that isn't Eve. AoC is an obvious scam that is running a large scale demoralization campaign on all fronts to gaslight MMO fans. This thread included.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Albion is just a murderbox, not much MMORPG stuff in it.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        What MMORPG stuff is it lacking?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Just play Albion if you want a decent sandbox MMO
      albion isn't a sandbox you worthless retard

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Why is it not a sandbox MMO? It checks all the boxes.

  27. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    All you morons need to go back to old MMOs that people still play after 15~20 years and study them, so you can understand why they don't work.

    >being too focused on any one aspect does not work, an MMO needs to accomodate different types of players, including gankers, guild faction warriors, hat collectors, completionists, armchair theorycrafters and so on
    >they need to stop automating every single process in the game, such as auto-gueues for dungeons. It is an important part of the process that players need to gather in key areas and socialize in order to find groups
    >linear quest hub design doesn't work, only Koreans like that shit, stop doing it
    >enemy AI needs to be varied and smart enough to make enemies feel different and challenging
    >restricting player's freedom to conduct trade as an attempt to curb RMT does not work
    >free to play systems are cancer
    >computer specs for running the game need to be as low as possible, so that you can reach most players
    >containment servers for pinoys and BRs sound like a good idea but they are not, more people is always better and every story needs a villain faction
    >never listen to the vocal minorities in Forums, they are always MMO hoppers that will 100% leave for the next game release, whether they get things their way or not
    >your company absolutely does need to have someone whose full time job is to be online and ban bots, the same day they are reported. As soon as people start realizing that the bots they reported days ago are still roaming, all confidence in your service and the game's future dies
    And please I beg you, stop doing what the Korean fanbase asks you to do. Koreans only want the same shit MMOs over and over again, they never have any good suggestions for how to run a game.

  28. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Welp. I just wrote a fucklong post and then lost it, and I'm too lazy to re-do it, so I'll summarize;

    There are constant PvP sandbox games, Sea of Thieves is one of them. But the important parts of that game that make the risk of losing everything you do to PvP tolerable are;
    >Everyone is on the same level in-game power-wise.
    >You enter the game specifically knowing that PvP is likely, and if you're lucky you'll get to PvE if you can keep players away or avoid them.
    >The game does not "mandate" PvE content because doing that content is not required to accomplish basic progress in the game, whereas it is in an MMO.
    >Most importantly, unless you go in solo, you always have at least 1 to 3 people with you who are joining the game specifically to help you succeed at PvP and/or not get destroyed.

    MMOs don't have these things, because MMOs have different base gameplay. PvE content IS required to progress, other players CAN outgear/outlevel you and destroy you with no possibility of retaliation, and most of the time you're spending vast swathes of gameplay completely solo. All of these things make the constant risk of losing everything to PvP much less tolerable of a mechanic because it basically cannot be fun (unless in a normalized arena) but it can serve to instantly invalidate all progress you've made in the actual game.

  29. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Fans of MMO PvP are a vocal but miniscule minority. Always have been. The only PvP MMO that ever lived a life was DAoC and it didn't have any full loot or low level corpse camping that these PvP players want. Fans of any kind of video game PvP are a minority tbh.

  30. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >le hardcore pvp'ers only engage with 10 to 1 odds in their favor
    >make alliances and cut deals to share resources with anyone who may offer them a real challenge
    >grief and gank everyone else until they transfer off the server or leave the game
    >sit on the desolate contentless server whining there is nothing to do

  31. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Corruption alone will keep me from playing this game. The fact the game leans hard into world pvp but you don't get anything out of it besides a CHANCE they COULD drop gathering resources that you could have just as easily gotten yourself but then you're insanely punished with corruption which makes it so all your fucking stats go down and you drop all your gear is insanely fucking retarded.
    This system is just going to fuck with small scale pvp like between a couple people or people who play on their own, its not going to be a problem for big pvp guilds when they go to open world dungeons and kill whoevers there to take it for themselves then have hordes of loot to replace whatever they could have dropped griefing which are going to do a lot more "damage" then a couple retards acting like highwaymen.

  32. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >muh PvP players are a moron minority that ruin everything
    The only content that lasts forever is PvP. Players creating allies and enemies, feeling spiteful and revengeful, making long term plans to take over enemy territory, these things can carry a game for years and years.
    PvE content is important but you can only run a dungeon and make alts so many times until it gets boring and repetitive. Ultimately, MMOs are a genre where other players ARE the gameplay. And the nature of human interaction is violence and conflict.

    If the game is impossible to play because gankers are harassing low level areas or a single/dual faction dominates all content, this is not a problem with PvP or with the game's culture. It's a matter of game design being shit.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >The only content that lasts forever is PvP.
      A game doesn't need to last forever.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Yes it does, you little shit. The whole point of an MMO is making a persistent game world that is shared by people and has its own stories and history.
        Of course, forever is not actually forever but the game needs to retain players for long enough periods so it can keep going for years.
        But the reality of things is that most modern MMOs are "alive" for very short periods, maybe 1 year max. Soon enough they become so shit that the only people left are whales.

        This is not a sustainable business model, it's just a cashgrab.

        the problem with mmo pvp is that it shouldn't be gear dependent which mmo pvpers seem to have a problem with. skill should be the primary determining factor, gear should be easy to get where different gear is a side grade. nobody seriously wants korean tier mmo bullshit where some gay can literally 1v20 people because of gear

        Don't even get me started with the equalized gear PvP, you fucking carebear. MMOs absolutely are games where equipment should take a big role in PvP. The issue you describe has everything to do with vertical itemization, and not with PvP damage scaling.
        >classic MMOs
        >different pieces of equipment have different effects and purposes and every situation requires different items

        >modern MMOs
        >white equipment < blue equipment < purple equipment < orange < red
        >when the next expansion hits it all becomes obsolete because the equipment they add is objectively better than old equipment in every scenario
        And then you have the issue of just outright bad design. Modern MMOs all want to have long and fancy animations and make extensive use of lazy mechanics to steal away your ability to fight back, such as stuns, mobilizations, freezes and so on. These things need to be held back, so that PvP matches can include skill-based factors such as parrying, counters, equipment swapping, clever use of items, and so on.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          the only "story" is about one time the elite pvpers got too cocky and the underdogs got the rare W, and then they spend the next 3 years repeating the anecdote about that one time they really took those guys to the woodshed.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          This anon has the right idea.
          Itemization, even in non-PVP games, should always be horizontal, not vertical.

          Going up against a fire mage? Get fire resistant armor.
          Not cloth armor +535 of ass reaming.
          It's such a simple fucking concept and almost no game gets it right.

          PVP should always be 50% rock paper scissors with gear/builds, and 50% skill. This is not nearly as hard to create as people pretend it is.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            It's not hard, companies just fuck it up on purpose to sell P2W crap in subtle ways to metagays. Like BDO always leaving one glaringly overpowered class to make all whales reroll, then nerfing it, making another class glaringly overpowered instead and so on. And of course every new class on release is always OH MY GOD AMAZING then after a month or two they get the nerf hammer or everything else gets buffed and suddenly they are just about the same as every other.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >The whole point of an MMO is making a persistent game world that is shared by people and has its own stories and history.
          And good stories have an ending. But to me it sounds like you are looking for surrogate friends and not a game to enjoy and move on from. Grinding forever in a MMO will not bring fulfillment to your life.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            It did and it will, fuck off normalfag. Go back to grinding your shitty job and getting shitfaced in pub afterwards.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              You sound emotionally volatile. Let me diagnose you: You are only capable of making friends online because in the real world you are an irritating sperg, and you love MMO PvP because it's the only way you'll ever feel like you have any kind of control in your life.
              I'm hitting the mark, aren't I?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >get a shitty reply from some casual that doesn't even play the types of games we're discussing
            >someone else

            It did and it will, fuck off normalfag. Go back to grinding your shitty job and getting shitfaced in pub afterwards.

            replies to him sounding even more mad and irrational
            Stop replying to retards that don't play MMOs.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      the problem with mmo pvp is that it shouldn't be gear dependent which mmo pvpers seem to have a problem with. skill should be the primary determining factor, gear should be easy to get where different gear is a side grade. nobody seriously wants korean tier mmo bullshit where some gay can literally 1v20 people because of gear

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Here's the simple question: In your game, can a max-level, max-geared player walk into a low-level enemy zone and just start slaughtering low-level players without any possibility of them fighting back or stopping it?

        Because if so, then who exactly is that meant to be fun for? The person doing the killing isn't having fun, because it takes no effort. The people being killed aren't having fun, because they have no say in the matter. So who does the system actually benefit? The answer is "Fucking no one", because it's just not a fun game for anyone to play.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        if gear doesn't matter it comes down to n+1, then spies report on numbers and the least side runs away

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >these things can carry a game for years and years
      And yet in every game it carries it for 3-4 months and then the server is won and it's impossible to do anything against the winning group.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        That's bad design.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Yeah real capitalism has never been tried bruh.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Don't draw that comparison. Everything I described exists and worked perfectly in classic MMOs. The whole issue is that modern MMO devs are incapable or unwilling to replicate what made these games great.

            >Eve online
            wait wait wait shit something happened wait wait afk repeat

            I wanted to like EVE but it was so fucking boring.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >Everything I described exists and worked perfectly in classic MMOs.
              Name one.

  33. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    what is it about PvP fags that draws them to games like MMOs and souls? the absolute worst shit tier PvP games and they spend their whole life on them? there are entire genres designed just for high-skill competitive PvP and these people are running around with 300 ping trying to glitch the game into backstab animations

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      MMO PVP players aren't good at real pvp games.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        They're almost always playing a MOBA 24/7 though.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      MMO PVP isn't about skill, its about ganking and easy kills.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Because PvP feels more rewarding if you are playing in a persistent world. There's also the reputation/community aspect of it. Most other competitive games like MOBA-shit, FPS, etc. there's the hard reset between every match, so you can never really feel that things matter.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      why do you think

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      they are true mmo players that want to create their own stories and conflicts. subhuman pve playing garbage sits their with gaped mouths begging developers to shit down their throat with new content otherwise they don't know what to do with themselves. all pvp players need is a sandbox with some toys and they'll be happy for years

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >they are true mmo players that want to create their own stories and conflicts.
        Anon literally all you do is sit in starter areas and gank children. That's your "stories".

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          And that is the soul of MMOs that has been lost. But frankly I think PK has moved past MMOs, I think PK-ers found other shit like original DayZ and Tarkov.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Not every dumb poorly designed shit you happened to enjoy as a mentally handicapped teen stands for soul, anon.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >I think PK-ers found other shit like original DayZ and Tarkov.
            That's probably because open-world PvP died in WoW a long time ago and any PvP in the game was relegated to rated arena and battleground matches where only the people who were organized and involved in the meta and cared about achievements bothered.

            And other MMOs that have been coming out since have basically not catered to or focused on PvP at all, most are entirely about PvE content and progression.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >camping bottlenecks 25/8
        >create their own stories and conflicts

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          that's a failure of the developers for not creating a system conducive to that type of game play

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Because they cant.
            This shit is snowballing itself - one side pf PvP conflict become the strongest one - others start losing more and more - leave the game or join dominant one.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              This shit has already been solved 20 years ago. Have 3 factions, so that there's always the possibility that 2 underdogs can gang up on the dominant force.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                That just means the winning faction allies one of the other two and promises them some loot table scraps.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      ez to win with gear and character builds specifically designed for PvP while they fight againsts people who just put something together and play for fun. People who want skill based PvP play something like CSGO or Hunt: Showdown.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I remember when Sea of Thieves didn't have a cooldown on being able to fire when switching between weapons, and this was discovered and suddenly you had a ton of people who would either practice all day or just set up an autoclicker macro on their mouse because if you switched guns and fired quick enough you'd basically land two bullets at once for a 100% instant kill every time.

        And the fucking miserable failures who needed to exploit this, to the point of literally using macro mouse buttons to do it, would be the ones saying "lololol git gud lol skill issue!" and that's the mindset of a PvPer. Of ALL PvPers. They exploit, they hack, they build specifically for whatever the game will allow, and then they jump on people who literally aren't even interested in fighting and brag about how superior their cheats/exploits/builds make them.

        Also, this is a fact: Everyone who considers themselves a "PvPer" will, if the game allows it, use cheats and then brag about their victories after they do.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          says the gay that needs a library of addons to tell him when to click a button

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            You're the dude who cheats in Counter Strike and then posts screenshots of your K/D.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              are you lost, zoomer? no one has ever cared about kd in counter strike. keep being a seething retard gay mmo playing shit eater, gay. you literally need an entire library of mods to tell you to wipe your own ass. you are subhuman

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                You sound mentally ill

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      PvP is what keep MMOs fresh and exciting, otherwise you just end up teleporting or auto-run + alt-tab everywhere. PvP and PvE are both important factors in MMOs and neither should just be straight up ignored.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >what is it about PvP fags that draws them to games like MMOs and souls?
      because they don't require skill, just better gear. PVPers are losers.

  34. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I have no idea how people look at anything in Ashes and thing 'yeah this looks promising'.
    Game looks and plays like some shitty indie Unity garbage on steam, even for MMO standards.

    What is wrong with people? I get it, there has been no good MMOs in a long time and you need to hype something up for your youtube bucks or whatever, but fuck, latch onto an existing MMO and pretend it's good or something, shilling literal obvious garbage is just sad.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I have played MMOs for +20 years and you're objectively wrong in everything you're writing. AoC looks fairly promising if they can actually pull off all the mechanics and features they are advertising.

      They basically seem to be doing the approach that Blizzard did with WoW, which is to take good features from good MMOs and then mashing them all together into one game. It also helps a fuckton that the guy heading the studio is a gigantic MMO nerd himself, who is basically building his dream MMO because he felt that he got fucked by developers 24/7 previously ,especially in Archeage.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Ah yes the RMT abuser who doesn't seem to understand what even made Lineage 2 good, such a reliable MMO Nerd.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        i forgot what he went by in archeage but he was a huge meme. he was a big p2w whale and was so bad he and his guild regularly got btfo and keep in mind p2w in archeage meant you could literally 1v20 people the gear disparity was so massive. he's already adding shitting mechanics from lineage 2 where only the guild leader gets certain powerful things which in 2022 translates to streamer gay retards being on top of everyone

        mmos are dead, they are solved. they were nice at a certain point in time but they're over now and will never be intriguing again

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >mmos are dead, they are solved. they were nice at a certain point in time but they're over now and will never be intriguing again
          Riot will create MMO 2.0 and it will be glorious.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >It also helps a fuckton that the guy heading the studio is a gigantic MMO nerd himself
        An MMO made by an autist, a retarded whale, surely nothing will go wrong.
        Fuck off.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >An MMO made by an autist, a retarded whale, surely nothing will go wrong.
          As opposed to one made by trannies at Blizzard, funded by fucking Bobby Kotick?

          bro you stupid.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >As opposed to one made by trannies at Blizzard
            you know they are the same type of people, right?

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I hate how the word shill gets thrown around in Ganker, but you are unironically either a shill or someone who is so deep in the rabbit hole you quite literally stopped living in the real world.

        I don't have to 'hope' that they get the features right. I've seen them. They've shown us like, a good 50% of the game's features already, in motion. It looks like fucking garbage, and I don't mean visually (although it certainly isn't winning any prizes in that department either).

        Everything looks generic, the writing is fucking awful, the animations and models are indie-tier and the gameplay looks even more braindead and basic than even the slop that was New World. You think 'b-but muh players c-can start settlements' is going to change any of that? The game has literally nothing going for it. It unironically, does not do a single thing better than any other MMO out there. It's looking laughably bad.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >because he felt that he got fucked by developers 24/7 previously ,especially in Archeage.
        What, because they actually dared to ban him a few times after he dropped tens of thousands on RMT?

        i forgot what he went by in archeage but he was a huge meme. he was a big p2w whale and was so bad he and his guild regularly got btfo and keep in mind p2w in archeage meant you could literally 1v20 people the gear disparity was so massive. he's already adding shitting mechanics from lineage 2 where only the guild leader gets certain powerful things which in 2022 translates to streamer gay retards being on top of everyone

        mmos are dead, they are solved. they were nice at a certain point in time but they're over now and will never be intriguing again

        >>i forgot what he went by in archeage but he was a huge meme. he was a big p2w whale and was so bad he and his guild regularly got btfo and keep in mind p2w in archeage meant you could literally 1v20 people the gear disparity was so massive.
        See

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtcpyxYiW-0

        Steven Sharif = Sorcerer, you can see he was still playing as Sorc and RMTing as recently as 2 years ago, got banned then too.

        https://podbay.fm/p/capsized-an-archeage-podcast/e/1414883855

        Here's a podcast about him from old Archeage in 2014.

        >People on our server, Kyrios, seem to really hate The White Order. And Gank Bus. And anyone big enough to be a problem. Sorcerer has always been a big RMT’er, but at least in ArcheAge, thats not against the rules if done using APEX. There’s a 9 page post on the forums where people are speculating Sorcerer’s morality. People are actually saying that he infiltrated their guild to break it up from the inside, thus increasing his numbers. There are also claims in this thread that he was banned from Lineage 2 for e-raping a character. Sorcerer denies this. It’s as if he’s a Mini-Mittani. I dug around a little bit and it looks like SharifTheWhite, clan leader of TheWhiteOrder in Lineage 2 was in fact banned for some reason. Some alleged that SharifTheWhite used bots, as did many in his clan. In any case he seemed to be quite hated by a number of people. There is a video on youtube from alpha of a character in The White Order guild named SharifTheWhite being kidnapped. Does this mean that SharifTheWhite and Sorcerer are the same guy? In the video Sharif was AFK fishing and someone on the video commented that AFK fishing is “…considered botting by most of the community”. Is it really?

        This is the guy spending $30mil of his money to make a PvP game for what purpose exactly?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Game looks and plays like some shitty indie Unity garbage on steam, even for MMO standards
      1. You've never actually played it.

      2. What exactly would you consider an MMO that DOESN'T "look like some indie garbage"? Gimme a name. You can't, but I want you to humor me anyway.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Archeage 2

  35. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >mmorpg pvp
    cringe

  36. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >is it because of whiny carebears or do people just not want to live in a virtual world with choices & consequences anymore?
    you are a worthless retard

  37. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Imo MMO pvp has never been good, it peaked literally in Runescape. Go play a proper pvp game instead, pvp in mmo games is just wasted dev time.

  38. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >classic phase 2
    >gankfests everywhere
    >losing faction leaves the servers
    >pvpers: "where pvp? gib our honor back"

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      WoW PvP would have worked infinitely better with 3 factions. It could basically have been like a casual DAoC 2. Imagine the powerhouse that game would have been.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        ESO have 3 factions.
        Still one is dominant, other two barely can do anything.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >ESO have 3 factions.
          >Still one is dominant, other two barely can do anything.
          That's because why the fuck would anyone want to bother trying to fight for control, when you can just join the side that's already winning? If there's anything to be gained in-game from being the dominant group, everyone is just going to join that group since it's fucking free, rather than going through the effort of trying to make their original group successful against the odds.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        eso's pvp was a spiritual successor to daoc's pvp and it was great for awhile. there's also the issue of server cost. running a pvp game is expensive if you want it to work smoothly with minimal lag. there's fixes you can do like making calculations client side but this opens the game to cheating which still continues to plague eso even after many calculations were moved server side. now the game is a laggy shit fest that is unplayable during prime time. the only reason people still play it is because of stockholm syndrome

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        No it wouldn't. Each faction would have a dedicated server they dominate and everybody who wanted to play as specific one will naturally just roll or transfer there. That is assuming it would be daoc style with locking races and classes for specific factions, otherwise people will just pledge to winning one as soon as they are able.

  39. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Because world PvP in actuality means getting stomped by someone higher lvl than you or an entire group you have no chance against. People generally dont like situations where they feel like they had no chance from th start. World PvP is a meme in any game.

  40. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Firstly, A hugbox mmo is fine, people don't like being griefed or fucked with. Believe it or not you autistic spergs, video games are a form of escapism / power fantasy for the majority of gamers, and they don't want some douche rolling up and shitting on them.

    Why do mmos fail?

    1. Lack of features other than just running dungeons and fighting. So many online games are just people doing daily challenges, completing battle passes, and grinding stupid collect 20 bear ass missions.
    People want freedom and novelty in gameplay. They don't want copy pasted assets slapped together and given higher damage numbers.

    Emoting, interacting with scenery, farming or fishing mini games, base building, shit like that fleshes a game out and gives people more options when they are burned out from mowing down pools of mobs. The mistake is making that stuff mandatory or trying to encourage people to use those system, but you want to give players options and then allow them to make their own decisions

    2. Extreme pay to win / microtransactions.
    This is pretty much self explanatory, the only people who benefit from this are the whales with money to dump into these systems and get an unfair advantage.
    The solution is to make it more affordable for the average player rather than appealing to just whales, or not having these systems at all.
    Advertisements, promotions and money shit is tacky as fuck as well and tons of UI elements promoting this shit makes a game unimmersive and shitty looking.

    3. Grind
    To much grinding, burns people out. gameplay loops that try to capitalize on emergent gameplay rather than repetitive grinding to increase a number.

    That's my opinion. Say what you want but I'm objectively correct.
    I've played runescape for 15 years, I had maxed out characters in Tera, Gaia, AQ worlds, Dungeons and Dragons online, ultima, wow
    and I also consider dragon age: inquisition to be an offline mmo because it's gameplay is identical to one

  41. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    old Ultima online player here

    all modern "sandbox" MMOs fail since they are all about PVP, while the idea of sandbox in fact is about a fantasy world to live at. It shoudnt be driven by constant battle and competition.

    The Sims MMO would be a more successful "sandbox mmo" than another generic korean pvp shit (and i love PVP at that and msot beloved mmo of recent is archeage)

    Make an interesting and interactive world for fuck sake, not a lifeless combat arena.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >The Sims MMO
      Wurm?
      H&H?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >The Sims MMO would be a more successful "sandbox mmo"
      only because the sims games are primarily played by women and mmos have figured out that you can make a lot of money catering to the female interior decorator audience like they do in eso and ffxiv. i think this is where eso makes most of its money these days

  42. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Good sandbox mmos dont advertise themselves as mmos.

    rust and sea of thieves are better sandbox mmos than any of these fake sandbox games.

  43. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Why do non-MMO players come into MMO threads and want to tell us what we should want?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      you are a worthless retard

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      current day mmo players don't know shit and should be dropped as the targeted demographic. autistic trannies which are the primary mmo players only ruin them

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      you've been given what you want multiple times, and it keeps failing

  44. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The vast majority of people that want to play open world pvp games only want to do it so they can stop on people 40 levels lower than them in starting gear.

  45. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    MMOs would be better if they
    >were sandboxes
    >that reset every year

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Tarkov is 2 threads down

  46. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Why is this thread getting raided by themepark mmo players? Do they think we don't notice?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      If you are so bored you need to false flag just let the Thread die already

  47. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Why do all sandbox open world PvP MMORPGs fail, Ganker?
    Black Desert is still doing well. It could be a bit more sandbox-like but I believe it's the most successful sandbox styled MMO with open world PvP that we have.

  48. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Because they focus on gameplay loops instead of things that are fun. RPGs are meant to be fun. You're supposed to be engaged and immersed. There's gotta be a reason for the grinding.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      You're getting a BiS PvP set for your guild leader peasant, how is that not good enough of a reason.

  49. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    "You think you want it but you dont." is why. After a while everybody leaves and you are left with few hundreds tryhards. And you dont need to make whole mmo for that, just make another braindead br clone.

  50. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Theme park MMOs are successful because they give everyone a chance to feel like they special and powerful.

    Sandbox MMOs have a natural hierarchy with only a handful of players at the top and most people inevitably end up somewhere at the bottom. So they go back to theme park MMOs where even the lowest player, given enough time, can "save the world" (over and over).

  51. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I've played many PvP MMOs. DAoC, Shadowbane, Helbreath, Tree of Life, UO and dozens of others that have been forgotten in the sands of time. Also PvP servers on non-MMOs like Conan Exiles and ARK. In my experience these games and servers have always died because the playerbase ends up being mogged by a single guild of people who employ hacks and exploits and the devs are too spineless to do anything about it which leads to an eventual mass exodus of players. DAoC was exempt of this since the only exploitation people did there was boxing or heal/buff botting but that's not even on the same level as using speed or invicibility hacks. Yeah, I think in theory people do like the idea that you can fight other players with risk and reward. But the reality of the situation has always been that the people who wanted this kind of PvP the most also use 3rd party means to completely circumvent any risk on their part.

  52. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Foxhole is the only sandbox MMO worth playing simply because it doesn't have character progression.
    Just make Foxhole but with swords and magic.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Foxhole is literally a retarded shooter with clans and logistics though, not a sandbox MMO? Clans being one of the worst elements of sandbox MMOs in the first place.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        The first thing that any MMORPG should do, is filter solo players like you.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Based, Foxhole is kind of fun. But it is also very difficult to get into it as a new player since it has intricate logistic mechanics and veterans don't want to let new players interact with those. This mentality has already put the game in its death spiral.

  53. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/uapnRUjWVhc

    lol

  54. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >ranged players hide in the back lines
    >melee players dive in and melt
    Large scale PVP has never been, and never will be interesting to play.

  55. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Sandbox MMORPG
    >pvp
    >Ashes of Creation shill thread
    It's like you never learn. Biggest redflags on the market.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Why?

  56. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Oh wow a Kickstarter mmo made by a developer who has never made a game before! This will definitely be a successful endeavour!

  57. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous
  58. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Because giving players power over others will make the game unplayable for 90% of the player base

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Why? There's 90% of them. What's the problem?

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Because the top 10% will accumulate 90% of the power and will use it to sodomize the others, who will just leave instead of keep playing

  59. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    They all insist on having you drop your entire inventory on death which leads to the communities for them killing the game. They inevitably devolve into third world morons (primarily BRfagz and RUmorons) who've put tons of time into the game and thus gained shit tons of high end gear going out of their way to poach newbies or even camp them until they get fed up and quit the game. Once the newbies dwindle out they resort to preying in each other which leads to them rage quitting themselves when they lose their high end gear that they put countless hours into getting.
    Honestly I think the best way to handle PvP is the way Runescape handled it back in the old days (not sure if it's still the same or if they neutered it) with the wilderness where you had an entire area devoted to PvP but with level restrictions that widened the deeper in you went. It created an interesting blend where you didn't face much risk in the areas close to the border where people mostly just engaged in high stakes duels but the deeper in you went in the more likely you were to run into dudes just looking to poach lower level players.

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