>compares Splinter Cell unironically to Ikaruga
>thinks pressing Left, Right, Up, and Down is the pinnacle of game design
>highlights his ignorance of what genre means by stating how one is better than the other
Why are schmup-fags like this?
SHMUP Are The Best Genre
I dunno, why are you?
>Why are schmup-fags like this?
Retarded? A mixture of autism and coping with the fact that SHMUP's are a dead genre, akin to RTS's, or Beat'em ups. Also, coping with the fact that their genre reached its peak in 1992 and everything since has been down-hill.
>SHMUP's
>RTS's
>RPG's
I really hope that you are ESL, like me. You clearly can't spell plurals like a normal person, maybe you should take some lessons.
>You clearly cant spell plural's like a normal person, maybe you should take some lesson's.
FTFY
flawless victory
up yours
t. Electric Underground so BTFO from this thread he's now just attacking random anon's grammar.
Anon you were quoting here;
I do it to annoy people like you on purpose. Plenty capable of using plurals properly.
:^)
Based anon shitting on ESLs. Too many brownskins around here who get mad when you correctly identify them as ESL monkeys who can barely comprehend English.
People still play these things?
>starts talking about dmc3
>pointing out how combos are dumb gameplay
>goes on to ignore dmc1
He also unironically argues that 30 second long levels are superior to 40 hour long RPG's which...if that's your preference, for whatever reason, sure....but then tries to argue that there's more "Gameplay" in that 30 seconds than in the 40 hour RPG and I'm just like
>ayylmao
hes right though and you are all movie fags
t. The Electric Underground
He is right on that one point.
Except he objectively isn't. You can measure the button inputs of a SHMUP vs a 40 hour long RPG. The RPG wins every single time.
>heal potion
>skip dialogue
>scroll through menu
>wait
>walk nowhere
>scroll through menu
>wait
>skip dialogue
nice rpg gameplay
>press left
>press right
>hold trigger
Much play, many game.
can you beat it though
you wouldn't even make it past the first floor of a wizardry game you fucking tourist.
you wouldnt make it past the first stage in gradius 3 either tbh
>wizardry larpers
Can you beat Wizardry 4?
40 hours of rpg consists of god awful turn based combat and clicking through the text boxes
30 seconds of any decent shmup is packed with action
Witcher 3 has real-time combat and that game is well over 60 hours.
>packed with action
>webm
Looks like dogshit. Play a real game.
Witcher and Culyberpunk 2077 have probably the jankiest and shittiest combat in any open world game i think i played in my entire life
Why not take an actually good game as an example like Kingdom Come Deliverence?
>Witcher 3 has real-time combat and that game is well over 60 hours.
Are you implying that Witcher 3's combat is anything but complete dogshit? have a nice day.
This isn't fucking gameplay. Filling the screen up with shit is not gameplay. He pressed 2 or 3 buttons, maybe a combined total of 7 times. That is literally bottom-of-the-barrel TRASH.
If you don't see the difference between precise inputs with strict timing in a challenging game vs button mashing in a casual game you don't belomg on Ganker
>precise inputs with strict timing in a challenging game
That's literally the dark messiah webm tho
Ganker thinks buttons pushed = depth.
Oh, sorry, here's your "deep gameplay" bro
This guy gets it. Troonhu is fucking shit
He read the pattern and concluded his position wasnt in bullet trajectory most of the time. Its actually very stressful and demanding
Go back to /qa/
You must think rhythm games are peak gameplay due to the number of sheer inputs one must do precisely in a rapid succession to the beat of a song.
rhythm games are awesome yeah
but they're pure memorization (and timing), there's no decision making involved which is a key part of interactivity
>pure memorization
why do you fags have to out themselves as never having played rhythm games
>You must think rhythm games are peak gameplay
I do.
>rhythm games are peak gameplay
It makes sense.
Shmup:
30 seconds of constantly positioning, dodging and shooting
Rpg:
30 minutes of holding forward on a horse
Shmup
>hyperbolic exaggeration
Other genre that I don't like
>over-simplified strawman
heheh, not so tough now, are you christcucks?
it's true anon, most games are based in going to point a to b to repeat the same non difficulty segments, that's called skinner box design and is a part of why most games today are shit retardanon.
shmups are the best ftw!.
>that's called skinner box design and is a part of why most games today are shit retardanon.
The main driving force to play shmups is repeating the same sections over and over until you can get a bigger score number.
the thing is that the game doesn't have the same outcome, small changes cause different results and get onto more varied forms or game and contexts
repetitive tasks: no
the games change dynamics by any action and get new gameplay experiences by them, thus they aren't repetitive, even more when you always change the way you move and shoot all of the time.
constant difficulty: no
it doesn't have a constant difficulty and the game has a progressively learning curve with harder stages over time mixed with functional rank systems on most games
random outcome: no
you always have full control and you can get better results by doing better choices and strategy
to be an skinner box you need the three, shmups don't have any of them.
most modern open world games have
constant difficulty by always needing to maintain the same difficulty to not annoy the player when they go to certain spots
repetitive mechanisms by always doing the same tasks without any variation and basis, just made with very small increases of the quantity of enemies over time with no sense of progression
random outcome by the game always basing around the random chance to get something and to use it to your advantage, where not getting the chance can cause normally death or the failure of objectives.
modern open world games comply with the three-
>the games change dynamics by any action and get new gameplay experiences by them
Lmao enemy placements are static as well as 95% of the attacks. Hold shoot button and tap in 8 directions describes the core combat of basically all shmups. No real level design exists, just scrolling down an empty corridor while static enemies and attacks pop up. The score has almost no real effect on gameplay, the desire for a higher score is basically the same as skinnerbox shit.
The games are some of the most repetitive types of games out there. Which is why they are dead garbage.
games are about repetition
Most games have more gameplay mechanics than hold shoot and tap 8 directions.
>the enemy patterns and waves are the level design
Then its incredibly boring level design because the patterns and waves never change. Its like saying a rhythm game has level design lol.
>score shows how good you are objectively how is that related to skinner boxes I have no idea
Score does nothing to the actual gameplay. The only reason anyone bothers with it because they want to see a bigger number which ticks a similar itch that skinner boxes do. You honestly think those people play those very short and repetitive games over and over for any other reason than to see a bigger number?
>the patterns and waves never change
They change from game to game like in every game ever? Do you only play games where most elements are randomized? I just dont find that experience very fun I prefer to master a specific thing. And yeah rhythm games also have level design.
Score shows how well you played and also you are wrong anyways since when you actually play for score you have to play in a specific way that is different than playing for survival otherwise you get crap for score.
>And yeah rhythm games also have level design.
Lmao.
not that anon but they literally do, charting a song and keeping it well paced is an artform just like regular level design
I dont understand how thats a controversial thing to say, isnt it obvious that the way the notes come up determine the stage ie its design? A game designer has to decide where to put the notes and what notes they are and if they are simple press or hold or something else, there was design involved
Shmups allow for more creativity specially when starting out and figuring out the game, is it better to kill this guy first or second, is it better to blast it close or from afar, how is it better to dispatch these ground enemies before the copters come swarming etc its not as clear as in a rhythm game, the genres arent that similar.
but they do the same thing every time so you can just watch the best thing to do on youtube and then just do that every time, it's boring
1-1 in super mario bros also looks the same every time
yeah because it's arcade design that's why it sucks
So what games do you like.
sould and bloodborne, not sure why anyone bothers making any games, vidya peaked with fromsoft
bait but I personally dont like from games, or 3D action games in general specially with rpg elements on top, just not my thing
>crpgs
Hey at least we have something in common we both like dead genres
games that make full use of the medium's strength to combine different art forms, like CRPGs
1-1 has alternate routes like going down a pipe.
Such gameplay like that is too complex for shmups.
Well then play another genre I guess, yes there is a "perfect play" to do but nobody ever manages it not even super players, the fun is in trying to get as close as you can. That said I think looking up strats is ruining the game and its more fun to find them yourself.
What are you talking about the question was not about it being deep but if it was design at all or not.
If you dont think its not deep you simply have not played shups for very long at all and you dont understand them so why bother disagreeing, its a dead genre anyways and one of the reasons its because it looks dumb if you are a casual, I wont cry about it it is what it is, go play something else.
>Do you only play games where most elements are randomized?
When your game lasts less than 30 minutes you'd be damn right I'd want there to be variety in it.
You are extremely low IQ, the enemy patterns and waves are the level design
score shows how good you are objectively how is that related to skinner boxes I have no idea
>the enemy patterns and waves are the level design
oh guess you can say anything about any other game than. because its such a fucking broad thing to say.
Well not quite since in other games you can just go around the enemies or go slower, in shmups since its an autoscroller shit comes at you whether you like it or not whether you are ready or not
>whether you are ready or not
Omg an enemy is on screen. What do I do?
>Hold down the fire button until it dies.
God such deep level design where the answer to ever encounter is the same.
It's so funny to see zoomers talk about genres they have clearly no idea about.
Cool anon name me 3 shmups where you aren't holding shoot while tapping 8 directions in a scrolling corridor with static enemies.
I'd really like to see this retard try to 1cc BGaregga holding shoot.
>hyperbolic exaggerations and strawmans are only fine when they support my side
that's 100% true though?
But thats correct
Not only is this comparing apples to oranges (with the hilarious part being, you can like both because dungeon crawling has literally NOTHING TO FUCKING DO with scrolling shmups) another source of hilarity comes from the fact that I wonder how much of Ganker even played shmups or older RPGs. So you have people talk about a genre they didn't know, or are raised on games that they think paragraphs of story/story is the game, with the combat being filler/crap.
play some arcade games you cuck
so you can realize how much of your time is wasted with modern nu games
actually he's right about that
>
>"Heh... That's all for today..."
gets me every time
He is completely right on this, most RPGs focus more on story and presentation rather than gameplay.
(Don't) play Ikaruga
I thought Shmup-fags lauded it as the best game ever?
Figuratively, Ikaruga is currently at the korean DMZ. It's one push away from being put into normalfag territory (South Korea).
No they don't lol. Ikaruga was always something loved by normies who wouldn't normally play shmups but saw it as a gateway to the genre for them. It's seen as a casual game by the hardcore shmup fandom.
So basically its the Chrono Trigger of Shmups
shmupfags hate it because it got more popular with normalfags than CAVE, similar to Touhou, but it's harder for them to hatepost about Ikaruga since it doesn't have anime girls
He's right and (bullet hell) shmups are the pinnacle of game design. Once you grow out of your childish fascination with cutscenes, oversized maps, to do lists and whatever else tasteless subhumans get excited over these days you'll understand that elegant game design and gameplay density are the most important.
Normalhomosexuals furiously fellate Ikaruga for its gimmick while not even attempting to 1cc it.
Everyone replying to you saying it's not loved by the shmup fanbase are fake fans and should castrate themselves.
This. It's not seen as the greatest thing ever but it's still a highly respected and beloved game.
It's loved by normalfags who want to convince you they aren't normalfags
Duuude you ever heard of this super obscure Japanese game broooo? Total subhuman filth.
You know, more games need to be reviewed by people with southern accents.
i have a very strong dixoid accent im just too lazy to make the damn vids
I know you posted these as a joke, but they're surprisingly genius reviews. The completely dead-pan humor and tone, the casual references that are interspersed yet made in such a way as to make you aware of the reference through the gameplay itself rather than just being a cheap name-drop, with call-and-response rhetorical rants about game design that is culturally aware of the gaming scene without feeling flippant or forced.
9/10
Ikaruga review still cracks me up
>yup, this is a retarded polar bear pattern
some guy did a Call of Duty: World at War review xoxak style, amusing if you haven't seen it
nothing but a glib fascimile
>You can pretend you like it if you want. I wont stop ya from pretending. Just keep on playing T-Ball.
My fucking sides.
>this cannon shoots you into this awful world
Makes me kek every time. He's so cynical, I love it.
Play Xevious
Who let the nursing home gate open?
Xevious was pretty bad but it crawled so RayForce could walk and Soukyugurentai could run.
go play Mars Matrix
Where do I find a good mame rom for it. Wherever I look for an upload, the game is broken.
Most people play the Dreamcast port, try that instead
>ow ow ow ow ow
>are you slaughtering me?
Peak music kino
This is a peak retard youtuber. I don't think I've seen a single video from him where I wasn't amused by his stupidity.
>GAMEPLAY DENSITY MATTERS
Nope, not one single bit. Gameplay SUBSTANCE matters. Having a million choices in half a second is worthless unless that choice has substance to it that has a cascading effect on your gameplay.
Shmups have substance if you aren’t a shitter who just credit feeds and isn’t trying to 1cc
>unless that choice has substance to it that has a cascading effect on your gameplay.
SHMUPs then?
Why do you capitalise shmups
SHMUPs
Cool ship, what is it from? Looks like a dodonpachi one
Raiden IV
Ic ty
>Ganker - Gossiping About Youtubers
omg, I can't believe he said that!
why did he do this, this is psychotic, he should get some sleep...
Is he wearing his own merch?
Holy shit, look how far his fucking neckbeard stretches, jesus christ
t. beardlet
ask me how i know you have that gap in the middle of your mustache lmfao
For once I would like someone to recommend me a shmup that isn't a bullet-slop shooter.
Axelay, Darius gaiden or g-darius, tyrian 2000 are all easy to get into, as in they may have some learning curve but it's not actually trying to rape you at stage 2 like a bullet hell does
rayforce
gradius gaiden
g darius
zeroranger
Radiant Silvergun is on stream
How is that port anyway? Any horrific lag issues?
All those are available on Hamster Arcade Archives
Turbo force si a nice rad old school shmup with flying cars and simple patterns.
Dragon spirit is one if not my favorite shmup, You are a dragun getting power up like 3 heads and giant flames to fight dinosaurs to save your waifu, simple graphics and amazing soundtrack.
Area 88 is nice horizontal shmup, everything is awesome and the game shouldn't be too hard to finish.
Trigon konami shmup not easy but should be manageable most of the time. gimmick of the game is you shoot a giant fire dragon instead of a bomb
If I wanna try the best of the genre, which game should I buy on steam to understand what SHUPS has to offer?
Zero Ranger
ZeroRanger deletes you save file when you fail the last boss fight that you never played before. Haha redo all the shit youve done so far because BUDDHISM. And if you reach the boss again and die guess what? BUDDHISM! Get it? No? Neither should you this game.
ZeroRanger is a shmup anon. These are short games that are meant to be replayed. You also don't have have to face the optional last boss. The game literally gives you a choice. Honestly sounds like you personally need to give up your attachment to meaningless shit like a save file for a thirty minute game you either like enough to replay or don't.
Natsuki Chronicles
Ginga Force
Sine Mora EX
Sky Force Anniversary / Reloaded
unironically truxton.
CRIMZON CLOVER WORLD EXPLOSION
Einhander, Thunder Force IV, R-Type III
Seconding Crimzon Clover.
Crimzon Clover, :G-Darius, DoDonPachi Resurrection, Mushihimesama, Blue Wish Desire.
>eceleb
>brown
ok *leaves*
mark msx does not understand game design very well outside of cave scoring mechanisms. he is the very definition of someone who should stick to his lane (that being vert cave shooters).
>This guy who is objectively better at games than 99.9999% of the population doesn't know what he's talking about
Mark is based, he's a total contrarian and in ways that even make Ganker seethe.
He's better at SOME genres of games. I've seen that guy stream Nioh once and it was painful to watch, I wouldn't take his opinion on Action RPGs seriously for example.
he didnt even know what space harrier was. his knowledge is shockingly poor and no more than shock value. stick to your (vertical) lane mark.
>look at me, I'm good at something barely anyone else does!
being a contrarian is only good if you can back it up. he brings very little to anything outside of the shmup discussions.
He was right about RE4 Remake.
He was right about Bayonetta 3.
He was right about fighting games.
He was right about reviewers not knowing a good game when they see one.
Most of all, he was (and still is) right about how modern games ought to be designed.
>RE4
Uhm....No....Not at all...No. He says the reason RE4 was so good was because it had a grasp on the fundamentals of "Japanese arcade design". He's a fucking tard that does not understand a single thing about game design. He just attributes arcade design as the pinnacle and bases everything off that, when arcade games were generally slop shovelled into the gaping maw of the masses.
>Bayonetta 3
Never played it.
>he was right about reviewers not liking a game that he likes
Autism.
>he was (and still is) right about how modern games ought to be designed
>scroll down
>read newest comments
This autist summarizes how much of a tarded dipshit he is far better than I'll ever be able to.
Not reading all that shit.
That ain't no summary that's a whole-ass thesis. And he's dead wrong about DOOM pursuing realism, smoking crack right there with those takes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_of_Doom
" Initial versions also retained "arcade" elements present in Wolfenstein 3D, like score points and score items, but those were removed early in development as they felt unrealistic and not in keeping with the tone."
~ "Playing Doom With John Romero"
Maybe because Wolf 3D itself didn't do enough with its scoring system?
They could have a combo chain or give a bonus for clearing a stage with no damage, instead it's just random point values and endless pickups. Of course the system would be axed.
Modern devs don't understand how to implement score without making fools of themselves, hence why everything is now all about time attacks and achievements.
>They could have a combo chain or give a bonus for clearing a stage with no damage, instead it's just random point values and endless pickups. Of course the system would be axed.
What part of "unrealistic" did you not understand about the quote, and you being objectively wrong for criticizing him for correctly pointing out why the point system was removed?
You're boring, dude.
Nah, point systems are boring.
I have never given a single shit about a point system in any video game I have ever played. And I have played a lot.
Good for. But the rest of us are shit outta luck
>that pic
Seething euroshmup dev
No you are the tard he is 100% correct on RE4R its a disgrace of a remake
>Most of all, he was (and still is) right about how modern games ought to be designed.
"everything should have a timer"
Kill him immediately, and banish his soul to the shadow realm.
>"everything should have a timer"
Mercenaries is what made RE4-6 actually good. Not the dumb movie campaigns.
>MERCENARIES IS AKSHUALLY WHAT WAS EVERYONE LOVED ABOUT RE4, DESPITE EVERYONE QUOTING THE CAMPAIGN AND NOT MERCENARIES
Fucking have a nice day you zero IQ troglodyte.
>DESPITE EVERYONE
Who?
The most memorable meme from RE4 is literally the ending scene with Ashley asking to get bred. Who are you trying to fool here, yourself?
>weedsmoking burnout can only think in memes public appeal
Dang that's rough.
>shitposting retard gets BTFO so hard he has no response
Dang, that IS rough.
You don't even have anything to say for yourself.
Tell me now what was your favorite twitch streamer's part of RE4 again? Something about ballistics?
?si=NS_snbvTgyeuKWPw
I mean take CoD for instance. On Veteran, you've got no real reason to not just stay in one spot picking off hitscanners, but with a timer it'd easily turn into something pretty stressful. Doesn't even have to be explicit, just make it so there's some big bad catching up to your squad and so you gotta haul ass from the get-go. Plus, in my opinion, more first-person shooters need scoring mechanics, because otherwise you're just clicking heads and nothing else. Since day one CoD has only had a single collectable in all its games, no other replayability.
these are all boilerplate takes. any number of shitters could tell you that mainstream critical analysis of game design is poor.
Outside of this guy & Matthewwmatosis, who else out there even bothers to critically analyze game design? Most game youtubers only analyze the story.
That's what I thought until I saw his One Piece Netflix review where he mostly trashes it. That vid indicates that he understands how narrative & writing works. He's just an old school gamer who thinks that video game plots are a waste of time which is why he completely ignores it in video games. If you get him to review a book, tv show or whatever, he goes as detailed about their narratives as he does with a game's gameplay.
The main thing I noticed is he really hates Millennial style writing & game design which to him seems to be excessive jump cuts that don't bother to establish context for the story or gameplay mechanics that don't make sense with the overall combat flow but are added in simply because it's trendy, like parries.
>Outside of this guy & Matthewwmatosis, who else out there even bothers to critically analyze game design?
Oh, I have such wonderful sights to show you.
Game design "analysis" videos are some of the most putrid content out there on youtube, because every single one of them has no fucking clue what they're talking about, because next to none of them are devs or have ever designed their own games, or even mods come to think of it.
There ARE essays and books written on game design. They are written by actual game designers.
https://www.amazon.com/Fundamentals-Adventure-Design-Ernest-Adams-ebook/dp/B00IE950C2
>That vid indicates that he understands how narrative & writing works.
As a writer, I cringe at the thought of seeing what he thinks he knows about writing and narrative. If his opinions on video games are any indication, he's going to be basing his opinion entirely off how he thinks every movie or TV Show should be structured based around a handful of specific genre-format movies/shows he watched when he was a kid.
Go watch any video essay on an im sim
>arcades
>arcades
>arcades
>arcades
>arcades
damn i was expecting some bad takes but every video is better than the last one
Minus his retarded Ninja gaiden example, yes he's usually pretty spot on and right. Though like another anon pointed out earlier, both gameplay density and substance matters rather than just density.
The fighting game one is why I don't care about MP games in general. Why bother getting invested emotionally when it might completely die in a couple years?
Meanwhile I still boot up 10/20+ year old games all the time. Steam DRM is easy to crack, most of my games I have on multiple backup HDDs to copy and enjoy indefinitely.
>mark msx
Of course he named himself after that god awful computer.
No, he also understands fundamental action game design, revolving around movement and spacing. That's what he likes the most about games, which is why in addition to shmups, he also loves fighting games.
>which is why he loves shmups
>and fighting games
Sounds pretty retarded for him to base all of his knowledge and preference for the fundamentals of "action game design" on genre's which burned themselves out in the 90's and then did nothing but stagnate ever since.
he likes beat em ups and hack'n'slashes anon.
he is a ludo liker.
he likes williams library and in general likes arcade design not matter the region, that's the reason he likes nex machina and his robotron 2084 inspired design
>and then did nothing but stagnate ever since.
Its because they were already perfected in the 90's
He knows Jack shit about non-Jap games.
>Arcade man doesn't even know about Williams classics
Mark is autistic, no bully pls
If you listen to his old unscripted videos (kino btw), he honestly does come off as being on the spectrum.
his podcasts are so hard to watch cause he's constantly talking over the other guy
That's honestly my biggest criticism of him. If there's even one second of lull in the conversation he'll dominate it. He doesn't let his guests think before they speak enough and it feels like they constantly have to battle to get a word in.
Anon, that happens even in his new videos.
People understand that others have different points of view. The problem is that they are objectively wrong yet want to pretend they know what they're talking about.
Go back to /vr/ mark
I don’t understand how you could argue that a shmup is less gameplay dense than an rpg unless you haven’t put genuine effort into both genres.
he sounds really unintelligent
bro looks like he will be dead two weeks ago
rpgfags seething
he's right about everything he says (except about ng2 being better than 1)
I dont know why he jerks off NG, NG literally favors you spamming the same op attacks over and over again. He criticizes DMC3 for people preferring to do player expression over efficiency but forgets the fact that efficient gamplay looks boring as shit most the time
What video does he criticize DMC3? And you need to play efficient to get perfect SS-ranks.
>but forgets the fact that efficient gamplay looks boring as shit most the time
I do remember him bringing up how that one no damage master ninja run is full of boring cheese strats
2 is better than 1 combat wise. 1 is better overall.
>Ganker shits on the only tolerable YouTube reviewer
For some reason this doesn't surprise me. I don't even play shmups and his takes on gameplay density and the reasons game design has gone to shit are completely spot-on. I've always seen it more through an open-world game lense though because those design trends have ruined a lot of the franchises I loved (like Zelda and MGS).
Stop jerking yourself off in front of everyone, dude. It's embarassing. And you have absolutely god awful shit-takes. Anyone can fucking see that. It's why you aren't a game developer.
>everyone who defends a person is that person
meds, now
Open world really is a meme for a dev team with 0 fucking ideas.
I think it's just one guy honestly. Not even shmup threads are safe from Ganker schizos.
>open world design trends have ruined a lot of the franchises I loved
>like zelda
Are you retarded, or are you not aware that Zelda was a progenitor of open-world games?
You cannot be this fucking retarded. Are you just ignoring the mountains of Apple II/C64/PC-88 open-ended RPGs from the early-mid 80s? Zelda I was nonlinear, sure, but I wouldn't call it "open world" in any modern sense of the word.
RPG's are RPG's. Open world games, as a category, typically fall into action-type games.
Open world is a progression structure, you can have an open world game of nearly any genre. Hence how you can have MGSV (a stealth game) and Witcher 3 (an action RPG) and GTA (a TPS/driving game) and call them all "open world" games.
MGS5 and GTA, yes, but nobody calls Witcher 3 an open-world game, it comes with the territory of it being an RPG.
If someone calls something an "open world game", they typically think of GTA, Assassin's Creed, Far Cry, Red Dead Redemption, ARK, Rust, or Subnautica.
If someone thinks of an RPG, they automatically assume that it's going to have a large world to explore by default. Not many people respond to others asking them what their favorite open world game is by saying "Gothic 2", since the emphasis in open world games is about exploration and adventure.
>nobody calls Witcher 3 an open-world game, it comes with the territory of it being an RPG
RPG is a massive umbrella term with a fuckton of subgenres. In no way does something being an RPG preclude that it must be an open-world game. Dungeon crawler RPGs like Wizardry have been around just as long as more open-world style RPGs like Ultima, and most RPGs fall somewhere in between. Witcher 3 absolutely had a massive emphasis on being open-world and was touted as one of the best open-world games for years. Bethesda's RPGs are another good example of open-world RPGs (also sometimes called "sandbox" RPGs). Gothic 2 isn't even the same type of game as these. You clearly don't know what the fuck you're talking about.
I'm not saying RPG isn't a massive umbrella term, retard, I'm saying what most people "think of", which of course falls back to the original premise of the argument of Zelda being an open world game, which it is, which you, for some retarded reason, thought I was saying RPG's didn't exist.
Now fuck off kindly.
No, I'm saying you calling Zelda 1 a progenitor of modern open world games is hugely misleading. Just because there isn't a preset order that you have to do the dungeons doesn't automatically make it open-world. By that logic Mega Man games are open-world because you can fight the robot masters in any order.
>No, I'm saying you calling Zelda 1 a progenitor of modern open world games is hugely misleading.
It isn't. Because it IS "a" progenitor. Other games also were.
>By that logic Mega Man games are open-world because you can fight the robot masters in any order.
Do you actively run around a world and choose to fight them in any order? No? Then it's not open world.
Would you call OoT's second half open-world?
Never played it so I don't know.
The 2nd half of OoT is pretty similar to how Zelda 1 worked, in that you are free to go to a few different dungeons until you gain items from them that let you access the rest. I'm just curious where the line is between nonlinearity and "open world". Personally I wouldn't call either game open world.
The ratio of non-open-world RPGs to open-world RPGs is way more even than the ratio of flying birds to flightless birds. You just don't know enough about the genre to have known that.
Mega Man is open world
Your zoom is showing. Ultima, Elite and Hydlide have always been considered open-ended games. What exactly does Wizardry have in common with said open progression structure? Is that not an RPG in your world? There is no territory "of an RPG" other than your failure to define a foundation. Said foundation pivoting to being known for open-ended progression doesn't change history or the definition of an RPG.
Wow, that's a fuck-ton of random-ass strawman arguments that I was never arguing. Thanks for bringing those up.
>I was never arguing
You stated something being open-world "comes with the territory of being an RPG", and he provided you examples or RPGs that do not have open worlds. Stop playing dumb.
>You stated something being open-world "comes with the territory of being an RPG", and he provided you examples or RPGs that do not have open worlds
And I could provide you with examples of birds that are incapable of flight, that doesn't mean that people think of them when someone mentions birds.
Lol at implying the average v/tard knows anything about PC-88 or even Ultima.
>Are you just ignoring the mountains of Apple II/C64/PC-88 open-ended RPGs from the early-mid 80s
Ahhhh, yes, the PC-88, I love the cool, crisp graphics from its games.
Lcd issue
>design trends have ruined a lot of the franchises I loved
You clearly don't know shit about vidya since 3D Zelda before BotW was complete dogshit. Simon Says is and will always be terrible.
>only tolerable youtuber
lol this boards definition of a good e celeb is just the one with opinions that line up with theirs. Its why this board will occasionally shill lolcows like Razorfist or john blow and yahtzee
>Razorfist
Tolerable/10
>Jon Blow
Nobody on Ganker likes him, not even the people that like him.
>Yahtzee
Is funny to children. Then when you grow up you realize how fucking annoying his opinions are.
Razorfist hates anime girls, hes a small amygdala chud
>shill lolcows like Razorfist
What did Razorfist do? Let me guess he's a cuck?
Funny how he got shit on for his bayonetta 3 review because he was one of the first to openly criticize the game while others waited when it was finally safe to do so, then happened again with his RE4 remake review.
The difference is that he's wrong about RE4R. Hate when people that haven't actually put time into a game criticize it. I have almost 200 hours in the remake and have played three different versions of the original. They're both great games and the gameplay is stellar in both for unique reasons.
>the gameplay is stellar in both for unique reasons.
elaborate
The original gameplay loop is all about stop and shoot, stagger and melee. There's crowd control, but it's usually slower paced. It gives you time to think and that makes it feel totally original. Other games inspired by it like Dead Space 2 lean really into fast paced action. They don't give you much time to think and are more reflex based. RE4 is entirely cerebral. It's the old man's shooter. I love it for that. The remake is almost entirely designed around speedrunning and every little choice matters. Yeah sure, you still have to worry about crowd control, but you're more mobile and so are the enemies. The gameplay is frantic and you're usually running around like a maniac even during the cabin fight where positioning really matters. The remake has you thinking about every little box you break. It has you memorizing drops and enemy spawn locations and timing down to the second because every second, even the time you spend in your inventory or the store, matters. You waste a minute here or there and you can forget about your rank. I recommend getting all the trophies and in-game achievements. One of the greatest experiences in gaming period.
you're an imbecile. how many games could be described exactly the same as you described demake? thousands? so what makes it special? that it's a remake of a game that is truly special. you prove the point, that it's a mediocre game riding the coattails of a masterpiece, with your own shit argument.
You're incapable of actual sincere discussion and it's a waste of time to engage you further here.
the substance of your argument is "RE4R is one of the greatest games of all time because you have to constantly pay attention or you won't get a high score". I say "the substance of your argument" as if to imply that you made any sort of superficial attempt to make it seem more impressive, but really you basically just said exactly that with more words padding it out. your argument is beneath contempt. it betrays your utter absence of the perspective you would need to have to credibly declare that any game is great.
tldr fuck you
ok at least you provided a counter thanks
Make a counter argument other than nu huh he is wrong
>he's wrong
He's not. The RE4 demake is garbage. Capcom doesn't understand what made the OG great without Mikami and nerfing weapon utility while giving every enemy obnoxious superarmor isn't how you make a fun action game.
Fucking this. I do not understand how anyone can possibly enjoy a game with this kind of enemy health system and the stumbly movement mechanics. Any time I bring these things up in an RE4 thread I just get hit with "HURR ORIGINAL GAME EASY" or "HURR REMAKE HARDER", as if struggling against the remake's bullshit arbitrary mechanics is somehow a good challenge. I think remakefags just think that if a game is harder to get through, it's instantly challenging you more, without stopping to think about whether or not it's actually testing you in an enjoyable or interesting way. Shit like the random enemy health, fucking knife durability, Red Dead style movement, gun sway, fucking crafting, etc. all have no place whatsoever in a game like RE4 and make the game extremely unenjoyable to anyone with more than one brain cell.
I've noticed that when people say they want challenging difficult games they don't mean mechanically difficult as in gameplay. They mean they want a game that controls like shit so they can pretend they are hardcore gamers because they suck at videogames.
Yeah, I'm starting to notice that too. They just want a game that flashes a "You're Dead" or "Game Over" screen every few minutes so they can pretend they're getting better when they beat their head against the wall enough times for all the game's RNG mechanics to align and let them through to the next section.
Nobody wants a game that controls like shit, they get games that control like shit. Note how they are always japanese games.
You didn't beat it sorry. Losing a lot has nothing to do with why a game is hard, it's the kinds of situations the dev puts you in, I guarantee no one besides shitters feels a setback when they lose or die in a game. Baby-raging after dying too much is a sign you don't know what to do, which means you should practice more. A good hard game won't let you progress until you master the fundamentals needed for the rest of the game.
I've put a hundred hours into RE4R and I don't like it. It's a fundamentally mediocre game which also suffers from actively bad design ideas. RE4 is one of the greatest games ever made and anybody who thinks the remake is comparable let alone superior should banish the original from their memory because it's too good for them and they don't deserve to even know it exists.
Your problem is that you can't see past your love for the original. If the remake had been a new IP, people would be calling it GOTY.
if the remake had been a new IP noone would care and everyone would call it the bad copy of the last of us.
no. there are countless mediocre worthless games people have called goty. some people say dead space is a great game. those people are idiots. so it goes with modern slop.
>Hate when people that haven't actually put time into a game criticize it. I have almost 200 hours in the remake and have played three different versions of the original
This means nothing. I, the casualfag who replayed RE4 for about 4/5 times, will not put in 200 hours to a game to see if it's good.
This place is a shithole, don't let it get to you anon. The more censorship this place has, the worse it gets and attracts those more left leaning who despise the truth.
In all offense, /misc/tards are too retarded to play anything that isn't empty world or a movie game. It's why they sperg out over arena fps, fighters, or racing games that aren't Mario Kart.
fun equals to decisions made over time
the more decisions you make and the lasting effect they have on a labyrinthine and multilayered web of game mechanics the better your game is
shmup have a lot of f = d/ms
stealth game have few for higher tension but less f = d/ms
is that clear?
Sounds like he's arguing quantity > quality.
there's a complexity equation for quality too but I thought it irrelevant for the argument at hand
This is fighting games.
you only see two fighters on a stage, but there is loads of mechanics going on under the hood.
Shumpsfag have massive autism and literally cannot envision anything that doesn't involving flying a ship in four directions and that leads them to say the dumbest shit about other games
>four directions
Eight (8), actually, when factoring in diagonals. In contrast, in roughly half of the Souls games, you can only dodge in FOUR (4) directions. That's a fact.
>you can only dodge in FOUR (4) directions.
That's only Demon/Dark and when you lock-on.
>it only does that when you use a gameplay mechanic intended for use with 99% of the game
Didn't it also do that to you in Bloodborne? Fucking embarrassing.
i like his boomer content well enough but his testing methods are questionable, did he try radiant silvergun on a 144hz/240hz/360hz monitor? was he using a wired/wireless/4khz/8khz controller? how about kb/m and hz? was his kb connected by usbc-to-usba> usb-c-to-c? what fps is his camera and diode bullshit? he's too hard on re4make too
He doesn't seem all that tech savvy to be honest, his shmuparch setup could really be improved. It's refreshing to see a youtuber that actually gives a fuck about things like input lag though, and who doesn't automatically give a port a good score by pretending that emulation doesn't exist and doesn't do a better job 90% of the time.
I have a massive shmup fag allergy
>OOH get a load of my sweet 1CC list, OOH I'M GONNA CUM
and I find him fairly tolerable. He isn't that obnoxious.
What the fuck even is this? OP posts about some pajeet youtuber holding a mic up to his turd sucking lips and it gets 100+ replies? MODS?
HELLO MODS DO YOUR JOBS, MODS
>markposting is happening at an ever increasing rate
markbros, are we winning?
LET'S MORKING GO
I have a pet theory everyone who hates this fag either plays roguelikes all day or thinks souls games are the best games ever made.
I don't hate him, I just think his opinions are stupid and wrong. I also mostly play MOBA's.
Speaking of Dota, did you know that Valve assassinated the Artifactfag for making their company look bad? Look how much he posted, and now he's dead.
I fucking love Souls games and still think his opinions are pretty good. He doesn't seem like he has the attention span for RPGs.
You don't need an attention span for RPGs when they mostly play themselves. Even Souls is just roll+attack. Zoomers will watch Netflix on a second monitor while playing. Arcade games require way more focus.
>every RPG is FF or Souls
or Dragon Quest, Baldur's Gate, Elder Scrolls, any MMO, Pokemon, Persona, any Bioware game, Xeno game, etc.
The only time you ever have to keep an eye on the monitor is when you're fighting a boss and even that is fairly braindead.
Play Elminage Gothic and come back to me.
Hidden mobs for trial and error is engaging? It basically a card memory game on a bigger scale.
That's just how these retards think. Making the same sweeping generalizations as the eShill. Good luck beating Wizardry 7 without looking at the monitor.
i dont mind his cave shit or arcade talks. he turns full retard when he tries to apply that to design intent he doesnt fully grasp.
he doesn't have to grasp it it's clearly shit
any "intent" that's okay with stretches of non-gameplay is fundamentally garbage
Boy, they really fucked this generation up with ADHD medicine, didn't they?
Maybe in America, I've never seen the stuff IRL. Point is playing games should be about playing games, not the L O R E that some fat nerd wrote. I don't care about nonexistant people or the nonexistant place they come from, I just want to be entertained by my entertainment.
>I just want to be entertained by my entertainment
Shame your qualifications for entertainment are so low that moving a dot around on a screen and making other dots disappear is "peak gameplay" to you.
You could simplify every aspect of life itself into this if you really wanted. It's much deeper than that and you know it.
Tell me your favourite genre and I'll do the exact same. Please don't choose Snoy movie ""games'" because that's too easy.
>no, you see, want to skip the boring pointless shit is actually this invented mental illness!
>ultima is shit because it doesnt have a timer and moment to moment gameplay
its okay. you don't understand it either.
>he turns full retard when he tries to apply that to design intent he doesnt fully grasp.
So all the fucking time?
i play bayonetta and fighting games all day
this dude is retarded
>everyone who hates this fag
he'd be a lot more popular if people actually hated him, indifference is what people feel except when he speeds them up to micromachines guy speed for the patrons
This, if he really wanted to he could go full synthetic man and get boosted by the algorithm by having people seethe in the comments but he doesn't actually like doing negative reviews.
Yeah people are so indifferent that this fucking post happened. Holy shit how retarded are you?
>364 posts/ 106 unique IPs
oh shit look at all that activity, my bad, im sure his fans arent posting from both desktop and mobile either
>3/1 is a bad ratio
welcome, newfriend
closer to 4/1, it really is pretty bad, 2/1 is a good one
> I have a pet theory everyone who hates this fag either plays roguelikes
This makes no sense. RLs are very gameplay dense and share more in common with Arcade games than the RPGs it takes mechanics from.
Even using a looser definition that includes games like Spelunky, Isaac, Dead Cells, etc. RLs would still have a lot more in common with the arcade than other modern game types.
>why are shmup-fags like this
Insecurity over a dead genre.
>tetriszoomers malding over the superior shmupgigachad
Tetris is based and you're a shitter zoomer if you hate it.
oh, is this the SNOY moviegamers seethe thread? You're all super big boys for pressing X to awesome at the prompt.
RPGs are the worst genre of video game and are just visual novels with interruptions between story beats
Dumbest take I've ever read on Ganker. Here, have you a (You) for your trouble.
rpgs and vns are the only types of movie games I can tolerate tbh
True, as the birth itself of the genre isn't for gameplay but rather uses gameplay as a crutch to roleplay.
Number go big is the lowest form of 'gameplay' there is.
>Number go big is the lowest form of 'gameplay' there is.
No, that would be "number go small" (IE, timers).
Numbers go small, or rather, sum zero is the epitome of game design. Not exactly timers, though.
Timers are needed when there's nothing pressuring players onto urgency.
If your game requires urgency in order to be good, it's not designed properly.
ope
Where is the clock in my image?
Probably ran out of batteries.
>Posts the biggest example of sum zero with urgency
>The longest tournament chess game (in terms of moves) ever to be played was Nikolić–Arsović, Belgrade 1989, which lasted for 269 moves and took 20 hours and 15 minutes to complete a drawn game
Imagine being stupid on purpose.
Now you see why they added clocks then. duuuuuurrrrrrrrrrr
Schmups and bullethells are the great filters. Pure reflexes with no bullshit power weapons or map knowledge to memorize if I were to make a video game challenge it would be to see how far people could get on the leaderboard without ever playing the game before
Just think about it
Any recommendations anon? 🙂 have never played one but want to test myself.
Space Invaders
Asteroids
Defender
Missile Command
Oh I didn't realise Space Invaders was one, I played the PS2 Anniversary game with my dad and it was a lot of fun. Triggering him by shooting the barriers, good times.
I'll try the others ones - thanks.
Nice save. you're still a falseflagging homosexual.
Ahahahahahahahahahahahah. Just look at these sad homosexuals. Desperate to tear anyone apart who dare posts. kiss yourselves.
>LOOK AT THESE INSECURE LOSERS WHO ATTACK ANYONE WHO SIMPLY POSTS
>shmups are the best genre and anyone who doesn't like them merely got filtered
>RPG's are for fat nerds who obsess over lore
Sounds like you're the insecure loser trying to cope here.
Your tactics are lame af. no cap.
You must be confusing me with someone else. First post was a reply to someone saying people don't like 3rd person over-the-shoulder movie game #324 because they have ADHD.
I explained that I'm normal and still find them boring and gay because they're boring and gay.
I have played like 2-3 shoot-ém-ups and was kinda indifferent aside from some cool bosses.
>pure reflexes with no bullshit or map knowledge
Lmao, that's completely and utterly wrong. Nobody has ever beaten a bullethole on their first play-through, because they are inherently trial-and-error games that require precise, rote memorization of enemy fire patterns.
Go shit up some other thread, retard.
>just think about it
I did. You clearly didn't.
And that’s because they suck. Did anyone beat halo legendary their first time without dying? Didn’t think so retard. I’ll post where I want nagger tranny. Shooting games and MOBA are a cope for kids who couldn’t cut it in the arcade so they play 15 hour days thinking memorizing every angles is skill. Schmups are the original video game.
>Did anyone beat halo legendary their first time without dying? Didn’t think so retard.
You don't have to play Halo on Legendary the first time you play it, lmao.
>Shooting games and MOBA are a cope for kids who couldn’t cut it in the arcade so they play 15 hour days thinking memorizing every angles is skill. Schmups are the original video game.
Wrong, actually.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bertie_the_Brain
Sigma-chad Tic-Tac-Toe is the original video game. Cope soiylet chinky-winky-wankers.
>he doesn’t play the hardest difficulty, but has the right to claim that his opinion matters
Opinion discarded. You don’t even play video games.
>he doesn't play the hardest difficulty
Unfortunately for you, I actually have beaten Halo on Legendary. Cope and seethe tranny.
Lol cope retard. You originally said hard mode doesn’t matter, but in a schmup it’s always on the hardest difficulty and requires 100% concentration the whole time so I KNOW you never beat legendary on halo which is irrelevant, because FPS were the first genre to introduce baby casual easy and normal modes for cucks like you. You’re just some weird European homosexual making shit up to sound tough, get the fuck out of my face bitch-tits. Go brush your teeth childless Nigel.
>you originally said hard mode doesn't matter
Quote me.
>but in a schmup it’s always on the hardest difficulty and requires 100% concentration the whole time
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/iK6NZa-GHYc
Abloobloo.
>because FPS were the first genre to introduce baby casual easy and normal modes for cucks like you.
That's funny, because it was actually a Shmup that did that, Space Invaders to be exact.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1875952111000231
Cope and seethe, tranny.
>You’re just some weird European homosexual making shit up to sound tough, get the fuck out of my face bitch-tits. Go brush your teeth childless Nigel.
Lel, he mad
>shooting games are a cope for kids
>schmups are the original video game
>schmup literally stands for "shoot em up"
>literally saying shmups are for kids who couldn't cut it
What did the retard mean by this?
>shmups
>no map knowledge to memorize
Nigga what
Please translate it looks funny and this board is unfunny.
A.i is so cute. Shooty is cute. Leinyan is cute. Perfect is cute.
Reflexes aren't the main selling point. If you dodge like a manic without planning a route then you're just bad at the game. It takes time to get better at a shooting game by making plans instead of doing left to right and vice versa
But that’s all you do in shooting games is left right and aim with your mouse. It’s ez mode.
>Pure reflexes with no bullshit power weapons or map knowledge to memorize
>Shmups
Hi Aktane
>Pure reflexes
>no map knowledge
my fucking sides
It's obviously a bait post, nobody write "Schmups" like that.
Damn this nigga really triggered y’all with the truth huh? So easy to troll virgin gaymers.
An interesting point, going off dumbanon's lack of understanding about shmups, is that actually difficult and skill-based games always end up having a big element of memorization. Be it combos, obscure mechanics and interactions, routes, or even exact inputs, there are always big fundamental aspects where the player HAS to memorize and then execute by rote. In a way that is similar to things like playing instruments or other manual tasks like knitting, but those are open-ended so you can actually improvise once you get good enough at the necessary memory based parts.
In contrast, easy games can coast along by being about "reflexes" or "creativity" because they're so easy the player is allowed to fuck around without being punished. Most people seem to think rote means the game is 'fake' or 'artificial', but I think it's usually a necessary result of making a challenge with actual substance.
>try cave shmup, beat first two levels.
Wow this game is fun, I wanna play more.
>game becomes impossible once you reach stage 3
Ok,this might be too hard for me I will try another
>repeat process indefinitely untill I have tried every one.
What do I do shmupbros?
Stop playing bullet slop for starters.
Any recommendations?
Tongue-core genre.
Play some of Tatio STGs like the Darius series, Metal Black, Rayforce
Taito's*
Fuck I'm getting tired.
You find one you like and stick to it. Too many shmupheads are consoomers or collectors. Your "collection" should only include the game you are seriously trying to 1CC.
you're supposed to start practicing from the TLB, then realize it's too hard for you and drop the game without wasting your time practicing stages 1-4
Play Eschatos!
he is a greenie dvj main that poses as a vf fan btw
?si=8gZh6_v_USu6zTeI
I think he might actually be a genuine weeb.
The only anime he's seen is Macross
He likes to use Eva gifs in his videos so I assume he saw that one too.
>vf fan
Assuming that party masher even has players, let alone a fanbase
Probably the best place to ask on Ganker right now so. What other games are kind of in-between like ZeroRanger? I'm looking for something in-between bullet hell and the fast and aimed shots in like Strikers 1945 and other old-school shmups. ZR had the perfect balance for me.
radiant silvergun
Yeah, these look great. Thanks anons.
Also Cho Ren Sha 68k is in a similar style to Zeroranger and was a big inspiration.
Mushihimesama on Original difficulty goes for that approach, fast-ish bullets with relatively simple patterns
Battle Garegga is the GOAT of in-between
Older console shmups and some indies like Raging Blasters. I'm in the same place right now where I loved ZeroRanger, but find myself being turned off by CAVE shmups. Though I do like Mushihimesama and Progear.
>zoomers can't into shumps
Kek. All that gacha rotted your brains.
I'm a 32 year old boomer.
You are all a bunch of nagger loving monkey fuckers. Enjoy you're tranny he she movie games while bitching about how fucked the industry is.
damn mark must be going places if he's acquiring schizos here
Yea, he's going right next to DSP.
No idea who's this fag, but shmups are alright for people who want to jump straight into 40 minutes of restless action
Comparing them to games that aren't even close to the same genre is retarded though
Not really. Shmups are one of the purest forms of video game. If you can design a good shmup, you can design pretty much anything else, because doing so requires you to actually understand things like pacing, movement speed, weapon feel, difficulty balance/curve, etc.
lol, nice anon, that's a perfect imitation of MarkMSX, lmao, spot on
Impeccable imitation of a schizo retard, you must have practiced very hard
What's the matter, upset because you know your opinion is wrong?
Do you actually have any counterarguments or are you just the typical zoomer schizo that's plagued this board for the past couple years?
Do I have any counter-arguments for what? Ad hominem? No, because you kind of just countered yourself right there.
I made several points that could be provided counterarguments
>Shmups are one of the purest forms of video games
>Designing a good shmup requires understanding of pacing, movement speed, weapon feel, difficulty balance/curve
>If one is able to design a good shmup (by having an understanding of those things), they will be able to design good games in other genres
Can you refute these points?
>Shmups are one of the purest forms of video games
A vague generalization. Wow. They aren't. There, I countered it.
>Designing a good shmup requires understanding of pacing, movement speed, weapon feel, difficulty balance/curve
As does designing a good FPS. There, countered.
>>If one is able to design a good shmup (by having an understanding of those things), they will be able to design good games in other genres
See above.
Alright coach, what's me time?
>A vague generalization. Wow. They aren't. There, I countered it
I'll elaborate. Their history starting with Space Invaders and revolving around relatively simple controls and mechanics, as well as their continued presence since the earliest days of arcade games up through today, makes them a very pure type of video game. The simple idea of moving from side to side and shooting oncoming enemies is one of the most fundamental types of video game concept. Do you care to elaborate your rebuttal?
>As does designing a good FPS. There, countered.
I completely agree, actually, and I think that if more developers looked at and understood what Doom and Quake did and stopped moving in the Halo/CoD direction, gaming would be a lot better today. Thankfully the boomer shooter trend is bringing a lot of the fundamentals back. But I agree, there are actually a lot of similarities between good FPS games and good shmups.
>Their history starting with Space Invaders and revolving around relatively simple controls and mechanics, as well as their continued presence since the earliest days of arcade games up through today, makes them a very pure type of video game.
Video games started on PC's, which then moved to consoles with the Magnavox odyssey, so if you want to talk about the "purity" level of video gaming, it goes:
-PC
-Console
-Arcades
-Phone games
If you want to talk about genres, the first effective video game was Table Tennis For Two, so sports games are the purest epitome of a video game. If you want to talk about simple controls, again, Table Tennis. Doesn't even need a button. Just a dial.
>I completely agree, actually, and I think that if more developers looked at and understood what Doom and Quake did and stopped moving in the Halo/CoD direction, gaming would be a lot better today.
Halo is completely different from CoD. Halo has wide open levels with a variety of approaches to dealing with enemies. CoD deals with tightly scripted corridors that are extremely cinematic, closer to a rail-shooter. Most games have abandoned the CoD formula though and have moved on to Battle Arena-type game modes or open world gameplay like Far Cry. CoD is the only one following the CoD formula anymore.
>so sports games are the purest epitome of a video game
There are about as many different mechanics and types of sports games as there are real world sports. Saying "sports games"as a whole are "the purest epitome of video games" because table tennis simulators were some of the first doesn't make any sense. You could make an argument that those early pong-type games are some of the purest though, and I would agree with you (though it's hard to see where they can go from the Breakout/Arkanoid model), but extrapolating that to all sports games doesn't make sense, because table tennis is very different from, say, golf.
As for your breakdown of Halo and CoD, I don't really disagree with any of your description of their mechanics, although I think you meant gallery shooter rather than rail-shooter since CoD is nothing like Star Fox. But when it comes to movement mechanics, difficulty balance, gun feel, etc., those are all things that Doom and Quake excelled at from the get-go that Halo and CoD never really got right in my opinion. Movement in Doom is some of the best in any video game ever made as far as I'm concerned, and movement got a lot slower and less interesting around the time Halo picked up popularity, from my own anecdotal experience.
>because table tennis is very different from, say, golf.
Yes, and Gradius is very different from Centipede, both of them are shoot'em ups though.
>I think you meant gallery shooter rather than rail-shooter since CoD is nothing like Star Fox.
I was more referring to Time Crisis/Virtua Cop, although I guess those are technically "light gun" railshooters.
>Movement in Doom is some of the best in any video game ever made as far as I'm concerned, and movement got a lot slower and less interesting around the time Halo picked up popularity, from my own anecdotal experience.
Movement is good, but I don't think a game with slower movement is inherently worse, as long as it's not trying to be Doom. The large levels of Halo are designed a lot around using vehicles, which in later games, if you lose your vehicle, it can be a real pain in the ass, but that's more of a punishment for not carefully protecting your asset.
>Yes, and Gradius is very different from Centipede, both of them are shoot'em ups though.
True, but I don't think they're as different from each other as Madden is from SSX. Centipede and Gradius at least share the same fundamental mechanics of move and shoot, while different sports games may have nothing in common mechanically because it doesn't suit the particular sport.
>I was more referring to Time Crisis/Virtua Cop, although I guess those are technically "light gun" railshooters.
I've always thought "rail shooters" are games like Star Fox and Panzer Dragoon, which are verty different from Time Crisis/Virtua Cop. I did know what you meant though, so it could just be a confusion of terms. CoD at its best is a lot like those games, I agree.
>Movement is good, but I don't think a game with slower movement is inherently worse, as long as it's not trying to be Doom. The large levels of Halo are designed a lot around using vehicles, which in later games, if you lose your vehicle, it can be a real pain in the ass, but that's more of a punishment for not carefully protecting your asset.
Right, but now the interesting movement mechanics have been offloaded onto vehicles rather than moving around being interesting by default. I just don't particularly enjoy the Halo model. Though I guess I do see where you're coming from, because if I try and picture Master Chief zooming around like Doomguy, I don't know how vehicles wouldn't be completely useless. Either way, I think the skills it takes to design a good FPS and a good shmup would both translate into good game design in general.
I subbed to this guy because he was the ONLY guy to pick up on RE4's remake.
Oney liked it, and Oney has actually designed video games before, so I'll go with Oney on this one.
Oney self-admittedly doesn't even like video games
[citation needed]
Crowbcat?
crowbcat linked to the electric underground video when assblasted normies started to gang on him kek
the video is good. ive often felt there's too much fat in most modern games and his ter gameplay density does a decent job at representing the problem. he's right that high gameplay density experiences spoil you and make you unable to handle anything else without some kind of eyes glazing over effect.
This guy for me is proof that anyone who just focus on a single genre, a single console, a single series, a single anything, have something seriously wrong with them.
Shmups are some of my favorite games, old games, retro games, modern games, recent games, there is good games in any genre and time period, arcade and non arcade, PC and console games, but some people make their whole personality about a single thing.
I will never understand this.
>have something seriously wrong with them.
It's autism, legitimately. Unable to comprehend variety is the Hispanice of life and don't like change.
Sorry, I don't believe in autism, so I'll keep believing that everyone is just pretending and creating a whole persona about themselves as a way to create a personality to feel proud of, or something gay like this.
But mark only play shmups for an hour and then playing random action games tho
He is married and has a job
Mark is a retard but I'm glad retards like him still exist in the world. That mindless old-school gameplay-is-king babbling is honestly a breath of fresh air in games criticism even if he's not saying anything coherent. I find his takes morbidly fascinating.
VTF-INO's getting back into Ikaruga on his Twitch. Hope we get more double play kino.
Don't care who this fag is and how many dicks OP sucks on a daily basis but SHMUPs rule.
>read the thread
>people are arguing with ACfag
Why? Do you retards never learn?
Me listening to my 1tb shmup music folder while working on stuff.
The image that BROKE nu-/v/.
What are the people above states of matter supposed to convey
Anon, you might be a bit retarded
I'm surprised the "post clears shitter" fag hasn't shown up already.
That video from him is probably one of the most relevant for the genre, shmups suffer a lot from not having good character representation, Cotton is a good example on how to make a game more popular by having clearly visible characters directly in the gameplay and through dialogues, this might be one of the reason why Deathsmiles was Cave most successful game commercially.
wilow is so cute and deserves all the candies
Her name is Cotton but yes
God I want to spoil her rotten
Oh hi Mark
I like all genres but Mark is correct that shmups/arcades are the pinnacle if what you want is the most videogamey videogame ever to be videogamed
bullet hell is the best jinry
stuff like vampire survivors but with bullets flying everywhere
This is correct. See how many gachashit threads we have now or how many people care about storyshit over gameplay. Casual idiots are the majority.
>tfw you were around for the glut of zero-effort SHMUP clones that flooded the market back in the day
>now dipshits believe they're the peak of video games
This fucking reality, I swear to God.
sorry you gave up on that 1CC
Almost any other genre would be more interesting to do a 1CC in since they have more mechanics than hold shoot and tap in 8 directions.
>"Sex is totally uninteresting; all you do is thrust in and out." - Ganker
Sex isn't a dead genre lmao.
you wouldn't know it looking around here
There haven't been patches in ages.
BTFO
Nobody thinks console shmups are good
>actual shmup threads: barely any posts
>irrelevant e-celeb thread: 330+ replies and counting
Curious.
Not much to talk about for a genre that consists entirely of holding down the fire button and moving in 8 directions for 30 minutes.
why would anybody want to talk about shmups on Ganker? so they can get berated by esl freaks for daring to insinuate that shmups are good?
Yeah, it's a shame. I have yet to post in a really good SHMUP thread on any board on this website, but I've still managed to have a couple of pleasant conversations with people who actually wanna talk about the games despite this.
That posting persona shows up in every thread about SHMUPS that I've read on Ganker, either from the perspective of someone who hasn't really played them or from someone who has played too many of them and has come to the conclusion that the genre isn't worth anybody else's time.
Just look at touhou threads. All possible gameplay discussion has died down in favor of some drawfags, and the reason is pretty much what
says. Sure touhou having a gacha and being about girls makes it even worse but there really isn't much to talk about shmups. Just watch streams and tell me for how long there is actual talk about the game that is being played compared to someone playing an RPG or more story heavy games.
old pasta
Mark needs to get some sleep and stop shilling his own putrid farts.
this guy looks like hes one foot in the grave holy shit. are all shmup players like this?
yes
every 1cc attempt is equal to a pack of cigarettes
he has a wife, a kid, a job, and still plays shmups every day, you'd look dead too
It's the lighting that makes him look like this.
>missrepresenting the point in a reductive manner
>falls for rage bait
I will now look up that video to watch it, just to spite you OP.
I like how a couple anons ITT say that Mark doesn't look white when he literally lives in Utah. How many pajeets are in the Mountain West?
Post clears shitters
iPhone ports of dodonpachi daioujou and daiffukatsu any good?
the hypothetical no downtime game contains one never ending encounter
and that's kind of what shmups are
Yup, that's what I like most about them. They can really test the player's attention and reaction times, and they typically have stellar visuals and soundtracks.
I like schumps
one of my favorite genres
The problem I have with arcade games is that credit feeding them isn't fun, but playing for survival/score takes a lot of investment and you have no way of knowing where you'll enjoy doing so beforehand
Like with a console game, the onboarding ramp of enjoyment is very smooth and if you want to pursue a higher level of skill after beating the game then doing so is a natural extension off of just playing the game (which is fun by default)
with arcade games its more like you're either playing it right or you're playing it wrong
I didn't enjoy the metal slug games until I 1cc'd them but the reason I 1cc'd them was pretty arbitrary since I wasn't enjoying them up until that point in the first place
cave and their autistic zealots are directly responsible for the genre devolving into stale and derivative WAN MIRRION BURRET trash games that can only ever be told apart by their arbitrary scoring systems (if at all), horizontals are the real thinking man's shoot 'em ups and no amount of autistic shitflinging can change that
also, for those unaware, mark is an insufferable aspie and a self-appointed genre expert that shits out aimless, misinformed, and buzzword-plagued video essays to milk his retarded followers out of patreon bucks, anyone that posts his videos is either from /shmupg/, any of it's associated discord circlejerks (tell gus i said hi :D), or just simply a retard
Great master of the SHMUPs, oh, tell me why art thou horizontals better than verticals? For I does not understand why thou hast said this particular thing?
more gameplay variety overall, whether it be actual level design with actual walls, more interesting weapon systems (forces, options, tentacles, the one game that had a hook, etc), more varied enemy behaviors, a noticeable lack of get-out-of-jail-free-bombs, etc
has a lot of bullshit too, shmups are just like that, but overall i find them to be much more fun to play than cookie-cutter verticals
"people" shit on ikaruga because it's popular but not made by cave, simple as that
premium quality copium, if that were the case then 99% of games wouldn't be made for horizontal displays
>if that were the case then 99% of games wouldn't be made for horizontal displays
Nowadays most popular games are third person.
Nice reverse accusation, /shmupg/ drama obsessed homosexuals are the ones who are constantly shitting on him or any good player.
cave was the death knell of stgs.
>horinagger
Opinion discarded.
I will never play a horizontal STG, your eyes evolved to parse things in front of you, not to the side.
>Damn this nigga really triggered y’all with the truth huh? So easy to troll virgin gaymers.
Best shmups that aren't half baked and poorly made:
R-Type
R-Type 2 (JP version)
R-Type Leo
Super R-Type (SA-1 fix)
Crimzon Clover World EXplosion (cave game but actually good with an actually good scoring system)
Star of Providence
Hellsinker
ZeroRanger
Zanac X Zanac (if only it wasn't ugly)
Summer Carnival '92 Recca
Dangun Feveron (best cave shmup they managed to make)
Batsugun
Darius Gaiden (worst ranking system in the world, be warned)
Andro Dunos (Andro Dunos 2 is trash)
Blue Revolver
why are cavetranies so obsessed with this shill? oh boohoo he says boilerplate contrarian lines that a 16 year old esl could conjure up.
you already made this post earlier, there's no need to reword it
Tell him yourself then, tell him he is wrong
It's almost live! I'm excited.
>zero mention of last resort
secondaries, all of you
>NOOOOOO YOU DIDNT TALK ABOUT MY SHMUP WHICH IS WORSE THAN R-TYPE AAAAAAAAAAAAA SECONDARY AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA I LIKE TO NAME GAMES THAT PEOPLE MIGHT NOT KNOW ABOUT TO PRETEND I KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE GENRE BECAUSE IM SO INTELLECTUAL AND MY POWER LEVEL IS SO BIG
kkkys
You are so mad. And you still didn't mention last resort.
I don't mind him and sometimes put on the videos when I eat and need background noise but yeah, he doesnt seem to understand that not every game is an arcade game
behold! level design!
>different types of enemies spawn at set different times off the clock in different densities and require you to plan ahead and spend your resources wisely
yes
Mark is based. Wonder whether he'd like Armored Core VI. He seems like someone who doesn't give a 1 fuck about game's story so probably not.
I think he already said the previous games were better
let me guess, flasks BAD?
IIRC he complained about the weapon reloads and the melee balance
He actually reviewed the game:
MARK IS LIVE
>Ganker mentioned
what did he say
don't come to boise tomorrow
he was just looking at his analytics and said that 3% of his viewers came from Ganker
He has two sons and is going to wait until they're 13 to let them play videogames, and the first game he'll make them play is Ketsui.
As it should be. Ketsui should be beginner's first stg
>swarthy brownskin youtuber has a homosexual opinion
i'm shocked
someone post "thanks lori" in the chat
>make this stupid image in 2022 as a joke
>mark just straight up lifts the core of my ""argument""" and turns it into a shitty hour long video
>bullet parrying
Name 5 shmups.
devil engine, zeroranger, grazecounter, bangaio some other shmup that has a melee weapon that deflects or erases bullets
for
I mean how is it wrong? I like fighting games but online play fucking sucks ass
it's apples and oranges, like comparing javelin throwing and rugby. Of course a team sport is going to have different issues and requirements than a sport that just requires a field and javs. of course people can argue whether or not baseball (real time with pause) is better than soccer (real time) but they're not that comparable. saying baseball is a bad sport because the athletic density, athletic feats per second, is basically insane
Why do /vg/naggers think the entire world revolves around them?
kys anthonyg
N
i don't care what a brown person has to say.
>not a new IP
lol actually seething /vg/ parasite
buy me
Android circuit and battery erotic uoh
The funniest part about Shmup seething about JRPGs is it comes only from a single discord of Cavetroon 1CCers who are upset that several of the people in their discord play JRPGs when they could be grinding out scores on alt versions of old games and pump up the price of those PCBs the discordhomosexuals are hoarding as an "investment".
Meanwhile the actually good scorers just play whatever like random mame shit or endless shitty mahjong games and mainly care about new JP doujin shmup releases.
I'm not going to read this thread. I'm going to take a guess that a third of it is people trying to have a shmup discussion, another third is e-celeb shitshow, and the last third is retards so accustomed to modern games correcting their mistakes they think playing shmups is nothing more than repeating the correct inputs.
And I'm right. God, this place is such a waste of time.
>I'm going to take a guess that a third of it is people trying to have a shmup discussion
That's remarkably optimistic of you, anon.
Well I do come here to waste time.
>ugh I am so le smart I already know everything BUT I WILL BROOOOOWSE I WILL CONTINUE TO USE 4 CHAN I HATE IT SO MUCH BUT UGGGH BUT I BROOOOOWSE
>popular games are BAD
>WANTED: DEAD is actuallty fantastic and game reviewers are retarded!!!!!!
why would I listen to the opinions of this dumbass
post your 1cc
Electric Underground is based af and is one of the only gaming channels I bother keeping up with.
I like electric underground's videos, but his way of speaking and his mannerisms make me suspect that the man is a homosexual.
he is doing a great job at hiding it then, having kids and all
How did someone that autistic manage to breed?
women dont care about autism if you are nice looking and have a well paying job
he did just say he doesn't really bring up video games IRL
he has hobbies and interests outside of video games
>he's a twilight fan
SHMUP KEKS BTFO
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO NONONONONOOOOOO
it's how you get the bitches
He got into it because of his gf, thats kinda nice.