Are games that rely solely on skill unfun?
Should online video games contain cheese "fun" mechanics?
This phonograph "reads" a rock’s rough surface and transforms it into beautiful ambient music pic.twitter.com/PYDzYsWWf8— Surreal Videos (@SurrealVideos) March 3, 2023
What does that video have to do with what you're asking?
i think ninja said that videogames should be 100% skill, no crits, no random damage or abilities, that video should be shitting on him for that
Risk assessment is an invaluable skill. g*mers are too immature to understand.
I hate it when retards like you make threads. Which stupid question are you asking? The one in the title or the body?
>Are games that rely solely on skill unfun?
>Should online videogames contain cheese "fun" mechanics?
Cheese and skill isn't mutually exclusive. Some loops in fifhting games are notoriously hard and cheese as fuck.
respond to the given information and ask for clarification instead of huffing the mold from your desk and getting angry.
bhopping, rocketjumping, tapstrafing rollouts and the like were all unintended mechanics that ended up being addititions to the "skill" required to perform well in-game. when devs remove every which unintended mechanic from a game to keep the skillset neutral the game becomes staler for it.
i think OP is missing the point that fun cheesed elements are not exclusive to being skilled- for example if a character gains HP by not being on the ground and players figure out a way to have constant regen by wallrunning and being boosted into the air by abilities that adds a layer of a skill to what was originally a way to cheese the regen system.
the TRUE question hes positing is that "should videogame developers create a competitive environment dictated by competitors instead of a technically expressive environment requested by players who enjot the act of playing the game over winning
If it requires skill it isn't cheese. Cheese is cheap and unfulfilling. Telefraging a boss is skill. Tricking the AI into leaping off the cliff is cheese.
I have fun playing fighting games even though I get assraped 99 out of 100 matches
Developers in general should stop listening to their communities as they're all chock full of retards like OP
I'd like to cave that blue haired gays head in with a baseball bat.
In Minecraft of course.
>anon gets arrested 10 minutes later
>Jury finds the defendant "Not Guilty".
For what? He said in Minecraft. He obviously didn’t mean in real life. In fact I’m a law student in my final year about to take the bar exam and I honestly don’t think he could be successfully convicted if you tried.
>he doesn't know
Somebody got arrested for posting "in minecraft" post.
Will probably get death sentence or at the lightest life sentence too.
they need more microtransactions, so i can shit and make seethe poor people
they should listen only to do the exact opposite of what they ask. i dont want my escape from reality to be ruined by these tryhard sweatmorons
I've never played a game that is bad because the developers listen to professional players.
I've played plenty of games that are complete shit because the devs cater to the absolute worst players.
sometimes the players are the absolute worst players, not in their level of skill but with the absolute childish mentality that if they dont like playing in that manner then the game should not be like that. shooters can be fun but not when the SweatLeague call any fun additions "cancerous" and blame the game for their loss- even moreso when the game is targeting e-sports. Overwatch and MOBAs as a whole are a balance hellscape of vitriol from players who hate themselves and the game
>I've never played a game that is bad because the developers listen to professional players.
I too avoid modern competitive games.
Luck is literally a skill and only lucklets seethe about RNG
That being said those born with strong luck don't play competitive video games
>wtf what do you mean listening to esports fags over people that just want to play the game for fun is a bad idea?
Catering to pro players is such a retarded move. Why would you tailor the game to such a tiny subset of the people that play your game. Even competitive modes in general are such a small subset of your playerbase its not even worth considering
sometimes a game makes more money short-term from tournament attendance and hype is almost monetary in itself from the player engagement after performance of said events.
if 10,000 players start logging in after a good e-sports tournament and start spending money then that signals to devs that the competitive environment is what is earning them more money.
little Timmy wanting to play like Shroud or Aceu is not as benign as we might think- clearly those fuckers are giving devs numbers we cant see and so they believe- very possibly falsely, that esports is what is earning them money rather than the idea of "me see game played good, wanna play too". the game would see higher engagement regardless of it if was geared to what some 22 year old adderall addict wants.
The phasmophobia devs keep listening to the community (read; psychopaths who play the game 12 hours a day) and the game is becoming more unplayable every update. I fucking hate this shit.
Yep, 100% this. Same thing happened with Doom Eternal, they made a DLC based on feedback from the "community" that basically played it as a fulltime job, and everyone fucking hated it because the difficulty wasn't just overtuned to fuck, it was also designed in ways that didn't cater to the game's strengths. I guess the pros enjoy fighting in tiny tight spaces in an arena shooter.
And then the second DLC they went too far in the other direction. Ultimate lesson here is that if anyone nolifes your game, don't fucking listen to them. Something is wrong with their brain and you're better off balancing for your average player.
how exactly did they cater to nolifes fags? I beat eternal but never played the dlc due to my distaste of the game
Difficulty was way overtuned. I didn't have much trouble except on the final boss, but what really frustrated me was how they repeatedly made you fight tough enemies in small rooms, on bridges, in areas where you couldn't see. They also added a new type of enemy that you could only kill by sitting still for 20 seconds with the microwave gun.
Eternal is one of those games where I have the sneaking suHispanicion the devs don't actually know what makes their game good. The purple goo and underwater level in the base game were a really good indicator of that.
>I have the sneaking suHispanicion the devs don't actually know what makes their game good
hugo martin said in a gamestop interview, before the game released, that he wanted the game to look cool when you're playing it meaning he wanted you to play like the guy in the kadingir sanctum video. That's why he reduced the ammo count so much and made you keep switching weapons and do all this other shit that made the game an adhd festival
The thing is, having to use all the tools in your arsenal sort of actually worked. I just don't think that they actually knew at the nuts and bolts level how/why that was fun, or even why the game was good in general.
Like for fuck sakes, they have an entire level with MULTIPLE underwater swimming sections, and also an entire level covered with purple goo that slows you down and sticks you to the ground. Same problem with the possessed enemies you need to kill with the microwave attachment. The absolute last thing that the game should EVER be doing is slowing the player down.
Some should be casual but definitely not all.
skill you get a natural progression that you feel as you keep playing.
It depends on the game. For things like competitive shooters the guns should rely more on skill than RNG because RNG making you miss when you are aiming at someone perfectly is not fun. Stuff like the gun recoil messing up your aim after the first few shots is ok, but missing by a few feet on the first shot just because of RNG is stupid.
For RPG flavoured games like league of legends the game should have RNG mechanics to make it more interesting. Also bad players should get their time in the sun with random crit streaks.
>fighting games have tons of cheesy gimmick/mechanics/unintentional tech
>is still perfectly fun and skillful
making everything super balanced is boring and unless its completely game breaking its fine to have some crazy shit. thats part of the fun of learning the game and honestly why i havent been as interested in a lot of FPS lately
>Are games that rely solely on skill unfun?
If your game isn't counterstrke then yes your game is unfun being based only on skill. If you have pros complaining that your game isn't counterstrike and trying to change it more towards that environment tell them to fuck off and go get good at counterstrike.
does ninja even exist anymore
Playing FFXI last I heard
He doesn’t have to pander to kids anymore
man he really killed it getting that massive mixer deal right before they died letting him keep the money without obligations
Literally just advertise your games normally, and you literally never encounter the "pro gamer" issue of having to appease retards that will ruin your game or spam you to death with their legion of retarded youtubers.
Bonus if you do user servers, while they will whine at you to ruin shit, generally they'll quarantine themselves from the people that actually want to play the game.
And a reminder
>twitch doesn't run on organic traffic it literally falls on
>Do you know a popular streamer already?
>Do you know Twitch Staff?
Ninja isn't a pro though, he's laughably shit at video games.
Name just ONE game where the devs listened to pros rather than the lowest of normie casuals.
League of Legends in its early days.
LoL was created specifically to cater to a more broad and casual audience because DOTA didn't.
It's as if you're not reading. You... you are reading right?
I did read what you said, but you were wrong. Now you read what I said.
It never catered to pros. It was ALWAYS made to be a baby casual ripoff of DOTA.
BEHOLD THE ETERNAL MEME AND DESPAIR
Who the fuck cares about esports? I play video games for fun not fake competition
In a perfect world, everything is decently viable but only really shines in select situations, cheese or naw
>cue CA balancing Total War over a MP mode nobody plays or nolifers on YT cheese tactics