The very fact that Unity decided to do this extortion-level shit means if you don't switch to something else you're an unabashed cuck. Unity must burn.
The very fact that people will jump from one billion dollar company due to extortionate licensing to another billion dollar company that can and will eventually present you an extortionate license is retarded. You need to move to a free license that CANNOT be fucked with
correct me if I'm wrong but isn't godot free open source?
meaning if they add any malware or try to add subscriptions and contracts people can reverse the merge on github or just make a different repository of it that's free.
Its FOSS and its license is under the MIT license, so you cant gatekeep it behind a subscription as it is and one to one hundred autists will catch any malware someome tries to covertly include before it ever makes it in
Its FOSS and its license is under the MIT license, so you cant gatekeep it behind a subscription as it is and one to one hundred autists will catch any malware someome tries to covertly include before it ever makes it in
said. Any time Godot gets too gay you can call steal all the good parts wholesale and call it Betterot. As long as you don't delete LICENSE.txt they literally can't stop you
inb4 unity rolls the whole thing back, wasting a ton of a devs time, or all the consumer level engines realize this is the way forward and they all start doing the same thing, also wasting devs time because now they need to go back to flipping burgers.
I spoke with the godot creator before he scaped Argentina
His original intent was to charge for godot but unity cuck him so went for open source cope out. Maybe he can go back to that plan now unity is offing itself
>inb4 unity rolls the whole thing back
They'll most likely roll some things back, but obviously not all. It's a common strategy for pushing controversial changes, first you ask for something even more insane and then pretend make concessions. You still get to fuck over your users and they'll even applaud you for "listening" to them.
why would a bunch of money grubbing suits not care that their ceo tanked their company and ran? if anything, theyre waiting for a cool off period to make the announcement.
Because you can't fix a publicity disaster like this even by rolling back all the changes, so they might as well make some money and only change some of the stuff that angered people.
True, but they pushed too hard.
Big name reputable devs have already publicly abandoned the platform, and they actually have integrity unlike Unity.
Shovelware devs will probably come back (if they even left at all) but everyone else now knows they can just implement a new bullshit policy at any moment.
The trust has been lost, people won't stay with an engine that can suggest retarded and predatory changes like this at a moment's notice. Even if they try to roll it back, why take the risk?
Even if they roll it back the trust is broken. Many autists will migrate out of warranted fear of futute fuckery. And almost all programmers are autists.
>spend years working with unity >know it like the back of your hand >suddenly unity bad and godot good >begrudgingly start learning godot to port everything over >suddenly unity not so bad anymore >do you continue trying to learn a whole new engine, or go back to what youre already proficient in?
>Isn't the C# support still shit in Godot?
Works fine as far as I can tell, what would you say is missing?
The docs can be a little shit but once you get a feel for it you can figure out where everything is on your own, more or less.
>suddenly unity bad and godot good
but godot isn't good yet, that's Unity's whole angle. Not everyone wants to make flash-tier 2d games and ps1 style meme games.
>do you continue trying to learn a whole new engine, or go back to what youre already proficient in?
I don't hire subpar shitty Devs who can't learn new systems. Fuck off back to Indiam
go to indeed.com or linkedin.com and search for Unity jobs. then search for Godot jobs. How many results do you get for each query? that should answer your question.
>do you continue trying to learn a whole new engine, or go back to what youre already proficient in?
I don't hire subpar shitty Devs who can't learn new systems. Fuck off back to Indiam
>get punched in the face >but he apologized so you'll take him back >suddenly unity not so bad anymore
This is just battered-wife syndrome, get the fuck out while you can, retard.
You can't make mobile trash on Godot without doing your own ports from scratch and you actually need to know some math/programming to make a game. No visual scripting to hold your hand.
>godot isnt good
define good. There's only three real issues I've had with godot that bothered me
1. by adding PBR they fucked up their shadow map baking for the older lighting
2. their video player only allows .ogg theora which is gay
3. Their physics kind of sucks (but so does Unity's you'd never use it if you can code your own)
I'm surprised they haven't pulled the antisemitism card yet. They must be saving that for when the Blizzards and Nintendos of the world start weighing in.
There is no rolling this back.
What are the devs gonna do? Stick around and wait for unity to have the next "great idea"?
Fuck no. You'd have to be stupid to stick around now that unity has shown what they are capable of.
Their C suite does not give a fuck. They made some bad plays the last 2 years and faced with a long recovery road or cashing out and burning the company to the ground they chose the latter.
>but you also think unity is just going to stand around watching their company go bankrupt.
Yes, they will. John Riccitiello is the dumbest mother fucker on Earth, he kills companies. When EA finally booted him out, their stock QUINTUPLED in price in the following 2 quarters.
unity has proven to be an unreliable partner, and platform.
if you don't start investing your long term skills in a free, open source alternative, you only have yourself to blame
Rollbacks will do nothing at this point. They showed their hand and people no longer trust them.
Maybe if they kicked out the CEO and reverted the TOS to how it was a month ago people would come back, but they aren't going to.
No, but why are people ignoring that, for example, Sisco Robynne sold 25,768 the same day? Or that Helgason David sold 12,500 on the same day? Or that Bar-Zeev Tomer sold 37,500 a few days earlier? Or that Dovrat Shlomo sold 68,454 the week prior?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Nobody is ignoring that. People have been laughing at shlomo during the course of this entire debacle. It doesn't let fagitello off the hook.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
You say that, yet the article has the subtitle: >CEO Riccitiello sold 50k shares this year.
People sell stocks, what matters is when they sell them, and months ago is not the same as selling just before an announcement.
Riccitiello should be ousted as the CEO, but he wasn’t hired by the board by accident, and I feel like people are just going to forgive Unity when that happens.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Riccitiello is a hired professional scapegoat
I mean, that makes sense. >get all the wrath focused on him >while his buddies sell out even more, but get no heat >gets "kicked out" to calm the public >he gets hired somewhere else by his other buddies
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
You say that, yet the article has the subtitle: >CEO Riccitiello sold 50k shares this year.
People sell stocks, what matters is when they sell them, and months ago is not the same as selling just before an announcement.
Riccitiello should be ousted as the CEO, but he wasn’t hired by the board by accident, and I feel like people are just going to forgive Unity when that happens.
Just as apoint of comparison as well, he sold over 600,000 shares 2 years ago, and sold over 200,000 last year, so 50,000 in a year is odd for being lower than usual.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Dovrat Shlomo
This is the most funny thing to come out of this debacle.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Was it your goal to use antisemitism to defend the CEO garden gnome?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
I listed the people on the board who sold a significant number of shares; any antisemitism you see is the result of your own projections or neuroticism.
>it was only a little bit of crime >others were doing more of it
Tell it to the oven, fuckboy.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
He's been selling off shitloads of shares all year. They certainly didn't plan this bullshit only 2 weeks in advance.
See
No, but why are people ignoring that, for example, Sisco Robynne sold 25,768 the same day? Or that Helgason David sold 12,500 on the same day? Or that Bar-Zeev Tomer sold 37,500 a few days earlier? Or that Dovrat Shlomo sold 68,454 the week prior?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
And just ti clarify, the 2000 share trade made Riccitiello $77000, all but one of the other large trades was in the millions.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
They can be on the same baking tray.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Yeah, not really, when the CEO sold an order of magnitude less and did so the latest, but the entire focus is on him.
he owns 700,000 shares
that 2k was a scheduled sale (as to avoid insider trading issues with the SEC) filed with the SEC in advanced, and represented 0.3% of his holdings in the company
the stock price barely dipped anyways, the garden gnome CEO clearly thinks in the long run this will make them money and investors don't seem particularly worried either
I dont doubt that Unity will hard rollback, not 100% but they will. There's just too many unknowns for Unity to commit to their decision, it would actively involve bigger companies like Nintendo, Pokemon Company, Marvel, etc. taking action against them unless they revise their decision.
The problem is the fact that this is even a thing. And it goes to show how you can NEVER put your eggs in one basket in regards to game engines. You can't predict what ass-backwards decisions the company behind the engine will do that fucks you over by proxy. This whole scenario is just a wake-up call, hopefully the whole migration to Godot will do it favors and make it a perfectly viable engine on par with Unity. Because I do think it's close.
>devs of games like Among Us and Slay the Spire have been crying foul over the policy >Godot is FOSS, ensuring that such a policy will never happen with it
Unity could stoop to their knees and beg for forgiveness, but their reputation has been tarnished beyond belief. A new developer who is aware of what happened will likely not trust them.
O3DE is new and it's miles ahead of Godot in 3D, it's not even close
libGDX, Defold, Monogame, Ebiten and even HTML-based engines like Construct are more mature/industry tested. Godot has 5k+ issues (filter by label:bug and it's still 5k+ kek) while Monogame has 722, Defold 996. Godot isn't remotely stable, it has breaking changes all the damn time. It's about as mature as bevy, the difference is that the bevy codebase isn't an ugly clusterfuck and the bevy devs don't pretend that their engine is production ready
Number of issues is correlated with popularity and usage.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
are you implying that Monogame, the engine used for Stardew Valley, Streets of Rage 4, Celeste, Axiom Verge and FEZ isn't popular?
bevy's codebase is nice but their autism at continuing to make a game engine for a language wholly ill-suited for game development is the real impressive part.
the whole point of Rust is autistic granualar lifetime management, which is something you just don't need to worry about in games at all. the only lifetimes you need to worry about are:
- stuff that remains loaded throughout the game's execution
- stuff that remains loaded for the current level/etc.
- stuff that needs to stick around in a temporary bump allocator for the current frame, at the end of which, the bump allocator gets reset, and that's that
- the stack
it's not worth it to use rust to make games because you're forced to write extra bullshit to get around the borrow checker, which is the whole point of rust. it's not a terrible programming language, in fact it's pretty good at what it set out to do, but, for games, it's borderline useless.
yeah I'm skeptical of Rust's usefulness in gamedev, but it's interesting to see a real attempt at ECS. I think for writing the engine itself Rust can work, especially if the devs/maintainers aren't anal about not using unsafe, but with a scripting lang on top cause I don't wanna think about the borrow checker for gameplay programming
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Monogame is dead & abandoned. >but with a scripting lang on top cause I don't wanna think about the borrow checker for gameplay programming
Scripting languages are not a good design decision.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Monogame is dead & abandoned.
last commit was 4 days ago. >Scripting languages are not a good design decision.
so you acknowledge that Godot sucks too then?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
nta but you can make your whole godot game in C++ if you don't want to script
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
yeah via bindings, that could work for bevy and others too. Officially you use GDScript or C# as a scripting language. You'd have to be a retard not to use one of the two for 99% of use cases, whether you're using Unity or Godot or Unreal with the GC'd C++. It's pretty stupid to call it a bad idea when every major successful engine with countless shipped games does it
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>so you acknowledge that Godot sucks too then?
Godot allows you to write C++ as well, but yes, relying on their Python equivalent is bad. >last commit was 4 days ago.
The last commit was yesterday, this doesn’t mean they are actually moving forward; their Patreon makes $300 a month.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Godot is making 100 times as much, how much faster is it getting developed though?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Going by commits, significantly faster.
>Godot allows you to write C++ as well, but yes, relying on their Python equivalent is bad.
don't fall into the premature optimization trap
gdscript allows for rapid iteration, you only should move something to C++/Rust/whatever once you identify it as a performance bottleneck
You don’t know what the “premature optimisation” quote refers to - Python is also no faster to write if you are competent at C++.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>You don’t know what the “premature optimisation” quote refers to - Python is also no faster to write if you are competent at C++.
evidently you don't and you're a euro-cuck to boot. Hint: with gdscript you just hit play, that's rapid iteration. For C++ you have to recompile the engine or gdextension. GDscript is fast for most things, especially if you use static typing.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Godot allows you to write C++ as well, but yes, relying on their Python equivalent is bad.
don't fall into the premature optimization trap
gdscript allows for rapid iteration, you only should move something to C++/Rust/whatever once you identify it as a performance bottleneck
There is some retard from ukraine having a hateboner for Juan and his crew. He tweet at him literally every day. High chance that guy could be you lol.
bevy's codebase is nice but their autism at continuing to make a game engine for a language wholly ill-suited for game development is the real impressive part.
the whole point of Rust is autistic granualar lifetime management, which is something you just don't need to worry about in games at all. the only lifetimes you need to worry about are:
- stuff that remains loaded throughout the game's execution
- stuff that remains loaded for the current level/etc.
- stuff that needs to stick around in a temporary bump allocator for the current frame, at the end of which, the bump allocator gets reset, and that's that
- the stack
it's not worth it to use rust to make games because you're forced to write extra bullshit to get around the borrow checker, which is the whole point of rust. it's not a terrible programming language, in fact it's pretty good at what it set out to do, but, for games, it's borderline useless.
Unity could roll this back and it'd be way too late. Those who're really deep into a project on unity will stick around to finish it, but everyone else with half a brain cell will avoid it like the plague from here on.
you do know that south africa has tons of valuable natural resources that is the only reason why the rest of the world looks forward to buying for chump change, and for that they need the country to be utterly balkanized, right?
>inb4 unity rolls the whole thing back
Rolling back won't do shit to bring back devs.
They show they are willing to make massive, unilateral and retroactive changes to established contracts.
No one professional or semi-professional will do business with a partner like that, especially not in vidya where investment take years and RoI are mediocre on average - Unity engine is just not worth the associated risks anymore.
>Steam takes 30% >Government takes another 30% >Company who saved you hundreds of hours of engine dev takes a quarter >NNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Even if they rolled back the changes, the fact that this is even a problem shows that Unity isn't a reliable platform to develop your game on. Nobody sane is going to want to tie themselves to an engine where the owners can arbitrarily change the conditions on you at a moment's notice. At most, you'd have people releasing existing projects that are already too deep in on Unity before they switch to other engines for anything else they make in the future.
Even if they roll back, the damage was done, and nobody will trust Unity not to do something similar later.
This isn't your simple end-user product, anon. People, and teams put years of work into a system to make something. Without trust that they don't get rugpulled like that nobody in their right mind would invest so much time and effort into an engine with this kind of record.
Been said plenty of times already but I want to be part of the reply chain.
Even if Unity put this shit up for only 10 seconds. 10 SECONDS. Then immediately reversed that, said apologies, etc, the damage has been done. The big picture is that they were not only willing to do something so stupid, it's the fact they actually went through with it.
>inb4 unity rolls the whole thing back
that's never what they do, they always offer a "compromise" that you never would have accepted in the first place without this much worse threat hanging above your head.
Anchoring is scarily common >We're releasing the game for 100 gorillion dollars >"what no that sucks fuck you" >bad press for like a week >Fine, game actually only costs 90 dollars + tip + service fee + battle pass every week >"Well, it's better than the 100 gorillion dollars so that seems fair"
unity's trying a new method of anchoring where they don't actually pull anything back
rather they go public with a vague description of the changes they're making, so that internet pessimists are forced to assume the worst. then a few days later they clarify what they're doing without actually reneging on anything
I saw it that way too and honestly it's quite impressive. The clickbait journos basically do the work for them, instantly plastering it all over and outrage culture amplifies it
>>The clickbait journos basically do the work for them, instantly plastering it all over and outrage culture amplifies it
This is more like a psychological war. Unity devs gonna put microtransaction in their passion projects and spike up the game's price in order to adapt with new changes. The garden gnome is totally an anti villain here, he is both cares for the wealth of the devs and both punishing them for being the good guys.
Unless shareholders force the gay CEO out by force as a sign of goodwill towards maintaining a proper ToS, it won't matter. Everyone knew he had vile intentions a long ways back after even EA was done with him, and several anti-Unity/consumer decisions later he just set a new low in digital service history. Trust in Unity will be fractioned from this day forward even if they do a full-rollback, nevermind this pretend partial bullshit they planned.
Source 2 SDK can't fucking come soon enough, I really don't want Unreal to be the only proper choice left while Godot and GameMaker take their time reaching that level.
I wish this would have happened like, 5 years from now.
Godot is just too green for me to willingly switch to it at this point, but I also don't want to use the bloatware that is unreal.
You cannot unopen the bottle when you pull a flagrantly dystopic stunt like this, Unity is fucked no matter what they do. Why would I ever go back to Unity knowing they would inevitably try to do something like this again in the future? But they'd definitely try and "package" it better the next time.
>delivering the features
Unity as it stands is done for.
The case for unity being any form of private ownership has been completely burnt. It'll probably end up like stride; becoming open source but lackadaisically maintained.
If a shining beacon of hope like Microsoft or I don't fucking know who's popular with kids nowadays but you get the idea, bought Unity out, every dev would do an instant 180 and come back praising them for saving it from clutches of evil Tortellini.
Valve was speculated to buy Unity at one point, though that was when the engine was in a much better place.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Right. But you get the idea. A company with "good reputation" buying it out is equivalent to Unity having good reputation again in the eyes of Twitter.
>Learn to code your own engine
You do realize that many companies who use Unity are fully capable of making their own engines, and many of them actually do have games that use their own engines right?
The whole reason to use Unity in the first place is to save time and money, just like using any tool. The whole reason why a good number of these developers are upset isn't because they can't make their own engine, it's because Unity has pulled a fast one on them and is now demanding potentially more money than the tool saves in the first place, ruining the whole point of using it.
Anons that post "make your own engine" are just trolls who intentionally forget about games like Overgrowth, that aren't actually impressive in the slightness yet took nearly 10 years to be built from the ground up and came out only to be promptly buried by newer releases.
and people like you intentionally forget about games like brigador, who were a small team, made their first game on their own engine in 5 years and still has a high positive rating on steam despite chud accusations.
this only happens when you have a small team of very competent people. The importance of documentation, familiarity, etc. increases with team size and varying competence. This is true not just for gamedev but software dev in general.
huh? genre has nothing to do with it. theyre both games built from the ground up in their own engines by amateur gamedevs.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>an engine for an isometric shooter takes as much work to build as an engine for a 3D physics action game
Yep, I'm sure it does anon. I'm sure it does.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
it doesnt. and they spent all that saved time making the game look and play good. the overgrowth dev couldve learned something from them.
it is quite difficult but with a bg in computer science and game dev, you can follow https://learnopengl.com/Introduction as a great intro to the opengl graphics api. It took me about a year and a half to create a bespoke engine for my game.
you've made a bespoke engine in a year and a half...
now the obligatory 4 years min to make your game (before you decide to re-write the whole engine twice)
Whereas you could just use a ready built engine, make game in 4 years and have saved a year and half of pain.
That time and effort saved is worth 5% royalty to most for a reason.
Modern game engines have extremely useful features that even if you're a talented programmer AND mathematician you couldn't implement on your own, there wouldn't even be enough time to do so. It's not 1990 anymore, you're not competing with thousands of programmers and engineers that are better than you in every way and outworked you by a factor of thousands to one. Good luck programming Nanite on your own, for instance. Building your own engine should be a side pet project to make you a more solid programmer, nothing more.
>make your own anvil
have you noticed jonathan blow hasn't released his third game yet because he insisted on making the Jai programming language and the engine from scratch.
>learn C++/Vulkan or gtfo
Anyone actually made a 3D physics action game on their own and delivered without it taking 10 fucking years like Overgrowth?
Better yet, anyone here?
>all these retards whinging about what will most likely turn out to be 0.5%-0.8% revenue loss
steam takes 33% or so
Plus from even just glancing over the pic I see the statements saying shit like "Humble bundle will bankrupt us" even though unity themselves says these are explicitly exempt.
The problem isn't the amount, it's the fact that unity just decided everyone who's still making money from one of their games suddenly has to pay unity for the privilege of the end user using their own PC/phone/whatever to run a program. On top of the fees they're already charging suddenly hiking. No one wants to work with a company who's willing to pull that shit, and on top of that no one wants to be in a world where there's precedent to try to pull more of this bullshit.
I'm not defending Unity garden gnomeery in this however this is expected when you start making your game on a non perpetual license that Unity explicitly set up with "subscription fees and details are subject to change" in mind. They quite literally had it coming for not using one of the engines with a perpetual license.
If you make your games foundation one such license, how can you be surprised and outraged when it happens? The only reason for that would be if the new fee is outrageous, which it honestly isn't. If you run the numbers a little then for the average indie dev of medium success this doubles the amount of revenue they have to pass off to unity, which is to say it's still sub 1% of revenue.
Has there ever been an Enginefag who preached this with a respectable game or even just engine PoC? I mean I know there have been devs posting who made their own engine, but the ones who don't shut the fuck up about it never seem to have anything to share with the class.
Yeah and why aren't these hacks coding their own operating system to run these engines on too!
And their own computer hardware, fucking talentless motherfuckers coasting off the success of IBM and Bell Laboratories.
Dear anon, who has never coded in his life (this is a fact), what feature could my game possibly have that it would explicitly require a custom engine to implement? I'm not going to wait for an answer because I know I will not receive one because you cannot code, nor are you capable of learning to (your inborn IQ is just that low).
Godot fans are obnoxious, they seem to spend more time preaching than actually using the damn engine. Meanwhile the non-NEETs in the industry continue using in-house engines, Unreal, other FOSS engines that aren't Godot, and yes even Unity
Publishers are blacklisting games made by Unity. >Devolver Digital @devolverdigital >"Definitely include what engine you're using in game pitches. It's important information!"
>Unity is good, just trust me bro
Ahem >shitty installer/launcher >bloated as fuck >filled with half-assed features >older features got axed with no replacement >buggy, janky, needs workarounds all the time >"mods will fix it" mentality with paid scripts/resources from the market being needed to make gamedev viable unless you're really good at it.
And only NOW you retarded dipshits wake up to the fact that owners might not really care about making a good engine.
Ok i'm going to install Godot, are you sure this is going to help me achieve in building my dream game? For now it's going to be 2D, but i really want it to be good. Besides, i'm not really experienced when it comes to game engines, but i want to learn.
Godot is a meme. It's not bad but don't think of it as the end all be all. If it doesn't click with you, try one of the many other popular engines. Love2D is a good one for noobs.
If you want to make a 2D game godot is more than enough. Don't worry too much about what engine you might go with, just try one, see if you like it, and if you don't consider other options. Godot is zero risk so is the best to start with.
Pretty much any engine will be alright for 2d games. I'm not a huge fan of godot's interface myself but to each their own.
Gamemaker is a time-tested 2d game engine though, if you were into checking that out.
>import scene from blender >all materials are broken and baked into the scene automatically >can't edit scene in godot without making an inherited scene >make inherited scene, inheritance breaks all links to the imported scene despite it's name >setup new materials, assign all textures, override material of inherited scene >model is in game and working right now >have to make slight modification to original model >'inherited' scene doesn't change with update to imported scene >have to remake everything from scratch again >save material as a resource this time to make it easier next time I have to make a change >end up with 50 files for a single model since you can't bake them into the imported scene since nothing imports properly
>import a skeletal mesh >all of the end bones in a chain are missing >ask juan wtf?.jpg >juan says blender doesn't support gltf right and acktually godot is the correct implementation >blender adds leaf bones to fbx exports to fix gltf retardedness of end bones missing >try to use fbx in godot >godot doesn't support fbx anymore because it's not communist >use external fbx2gltf plugin that godot has a convenient interface for >fbx file is converted and all textures are duplicated with a 20 character long randomized prefix >wtf?.jpg >try to break links to 20 character long randomized texture files >ERROR ERROR I CANT LET YOU DO THAT DAVE, GODOT IS NOT A DCC >delete all materials from model before exporting to fbx >repeat all the bullshit inheritance to setup the model properly in godot
>juan says blender doesn't support gltf right and acktually godot is the correct implementation
Okay but to be fair it’s the same fucking thing with FBX and Unreal. Blender has ZERO fucking regards for industry standard practice with file formats, they do shit no other software using the format does and when they get called out they go >TECHNICALLY the docs/spec doesn’t say we can’t do it that way so it’s not wrong, Will Not Fix
I love Blender but it’s a real fucking bucket of shit about 60% of the time.
Here's what will happen >class action lawsuit regarding the retroactive contract changes >unity loses, forced to remove the contract terms from older versions of the editor >half of the community leaves, one third will continue to use the "last good version" of unity, the rest will suck up and use the new version of unity
VXAce if you know ruby
MV if you know Java
MZ if you enjoy spending money
2003 if you don't know how to script/program
Wolf RPG Maker if you don't want to spend money but want to know what it would be like
if you know nipanese then rpgmaker, you can find tons of patches and the like.
>if you know nipanese then rpgmaker, you can find tons of patches and the like.
you don't need to know moon runes or download esoteric executable patches to have a functional RPG Maker unless you're trying to get it for free (and even then Wolf RPG Maker exists)
just get it from steam or the main website.
it's not "a functional rpgm", it's the extra additions and plugins so to speak that is immensely vast and large compared to western rpgm forums.
ironic all things considered, tbh.
Unless you only want to make a basic rpgmaker rpg stay the hell away from rpgmaker. It is a very specific engine and just because people love bending it over their knee trying to do more with it doesn't mean it's good.
This, there's a lot of cool things being done, but they never extend past 5 minute demos.
It's hell to actually work with those "amazing" plugins and make fully-fledged games.
RPG maker requires a lot of tricks to get it useful for anything other than basic RPG games
Look at a game like Omori for example, literally an RPG in RPG maker. On the surface it seems like it shouldn't be complex to do in RPGM, but that took a ton of JavaScript add-ons that run like shit, Tiled for levels when the entire fucking engine's purpose is tile based map editing, and apparently required support from actual RPGM engine developers to not break when everything was said and done.
And then, of course, it required outside developers to port the game and still ended up broken as shit in the first releases of said ports when people figured out the touch input was on by default, so you could just teleport past events by moving diagonally.
It was also cracked open, all of the game's hidden secret events revealed, and reverse engineered for modding in days.
>all of the game's hidden secret events revealed, and reverse engineered for modding in days.
Pretty sure no engine, nor anything at all really, can protect you from a single autistic dataminer.
I originally picked Unity because it seemed the easiest and I wanted to increase the likelihood of finishing anything at all since I have a habit of getting some basics mechanics down before getting distracted and starting over. Should I really have enough pride to put in extra effort to switch when the likelihood that I would be directly impacted is practically zero? The answer is no, but I may spend a weekend messing around with Godot and Unreal as a justification to procrastinate, further proving that I should not switch. My first attempt at Unreal was overwhelming since I had only used Python at that point, but maybe I could do better now.
I don't think it is worth taking drugs over a hobby. I already have a reasonably tolerable job that pays well, so its not like I need this to go anywhere. I just wanted to get something done and after aiming for a more reasonable scope, I've at least got to the point of designing levels to use my mechanics in now.
Since the new Godot version it improved tremendously, now it's ... still objectively crap, both in performances and visual quality.
But on the other side it's also now completely enough for what 99% of all indie project actually *need*.
So unless you intend tomake the new Crysis of this era, Godot's okay-ish 3D engine isn't going to be the limiting factor.
I'm not chasing realism or graffix, but I do want flexibility for stylization. So messing around with shaders would be nice.
Also basic things like scaling separate bones in a rig, quite a handy feature for character creators.
On the topic of Godot's 3D engine:
I have a game that I had just started when the Unity's shit got announced: very simple graphics, but Dyson Sphere Program-tier in amount of moving shit on screen.
Can Godot deliver on that without requiring a GPU four time better than it would require with Unity/Unreal?
MultiMesh/MultiMeshInstance look like what I will need, but I don't know how optimized those actually are.
There is a performance profiler in Godot you can use to figure out what your bottlenecks are. Here is one example of a potential problem -> solution for entity bottlenecks.
Depending on what you need multimeshed you want to use compute shaders to clone them, like if you want millions of grass blades.
Since the new Godot version it improved tremendously, now it's ... still objectively crap, both in performances and visual quality.
But on the other side it's also now completely enough for what 99% of all indie project actually *need*.
So unless you intend tomake the new Crysis of this era, Godot's okay-ish 3D engine isn't going to be the limiting factor.
godot sucks for 3D.
use gamemaker studio 1, write your own shaders and use library tools like:
https://forum.gamemaker.io/index.php?threads/smf-3d-skeletal-animation-now-with-a-custom-blender-exporter.19806/
https://github.com/RobQuistNL/P3DC
it's better optimised than godots crappy systems. or program collision and raycasting yourself.
it's always good to understand how your functions work.
Ive never used Gamemaker due to a friend telling me "be prepared to spend 6 months starting a game youre really excited about and then one die the entire project and its backup being corrupted for no reason whatsoever"
Cruelty Squad would be exceptionally easy to make from scratch, running as optimized as it is (not at all) on modern hardware or better.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Writing your own 3D engine fucking sucks, dude. There's a reason even professionals just use Unreal or something.
>>FPS >>easy 3D
Yes, theres a reason there were a million doom clones back when 3d was still in its infancy.
Not only were most Doom clones barely 3D (single floor maps with sprite enemies), a lot of them just used existing engines like idTech or Build
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
you can do almost everything the obvious naive way with like zero thought given to optimization at all and totally make a Cruelty Squad engine in a couple months tops.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Or you could use Godot and make it in like a week
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
or you could not be afraid of data structures and pointers
did you even play it, do you understand how many mechanics and systems are in that game?
what specifically seems like it would be significantly easier to implement in Godot than in C when it comes to systems and mechanics? once you have a renderer and a game loop, implementing game logic is extremely straightforward. why do you think it's so difficult? because you don't even know what it entails?
it's not fucking fun figuring out the most optimised way to store and retrieve shit. I already have to do enough of that.
I like actually creating things that are interesting. not tedious and monotonous labour to make something basic.
you don't have to micro-optimize everything to make a functional video game. just putting a tiny, bare-minimum bit of thought into the way things are stored and retrieved in memory goes a long way toward unlocking the ability to do whatever crazy complex ideas you may have. most game programmers are not demoscene programmers anon
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Pointers suck unless you are doing cheap pointer tricks like the doom fast invert square root or whatever
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Even C users don't want to use C. People want something else so badly they flock to ugly ass C++ or even something as homosexual as Rust
you ape moron, are really suggesting writing up a new game engine instead of using a preexisting one that would do the same things. that's how dumb gorilla you are. HOOUGH HOOUGH
here's what it takes to easily make a Cruelty Squad-tier first-person shooter as far as memory goes:
you allocate a huge block of virtual memory at startup. in there, put a struct of stuff you want to keep all program long in. then a struct representing a level—when you change levels, replace that memory with the memory of the level you're loading. then, you have a bump allocator for temporary per-frame storage. a bump allocator is just a pointer and a counter. the pointer points at its memory. when you allocate from it, you return a pointer to (pointer + counter), and increment counter by the size of the thing you need to allocate. you use that allocator to get memory for anything temporary you need in a frame. then, at the end of the frame: you reset the counter back to zero.
that's it. bam: now you don't need garbage collection. it just works. everything's global because you just want to use one thread because you're making such a simple game. for your next game after you make Cruelty Squad Clone, maybe look into improving how this all works so that you can start using more than a single thread.
what's so complicated here anons? why is this difficult? why are you so afraid of learning how a computer actually works and using it to your advantage?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
You think the only thing an engine does is fucking memory management?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
that's just the memory part. then you have a game loop with a framerate limiter (easy). and in there, you have functions that update the simulation (easy). if your game has assets, then you need some way of loading the assets from the filesystem (easy).
you don't need a node-based scene graph system.
you don't need an entity-component system.
you might want a simple entity system (easy).
you might want a particle system (E A S Y).
maybe you want FMOD support? EASY.
save game system? just dump the memory to disk! EASY!
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
all any computer program ever does is memory management, retard. you access memory, perform operations on it, and store it. what do you think programming is anon? magic spells that make video games?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>tfw i learn 6502 and realize all i'm doing is putting numbers in specific places
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
you ape moron, are really suggesting writing up a new game engine instead of using a preexisting one that would do the same things. that's how dumb gorilla you are. HOOUGH HOOUGH
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Even C users don't want to use C. People want something else so badly they flock to ugly ass C++ or even something as homosexual as Rust
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
did you even play it, do you understand how many mechanics and systems are in that game?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>"To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand cruelty squad"
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Doom and similar are 3d, they used a bunch of sprites because technology couldn't render full textured 3d models very well yet. Its why most other "true" 3d games used vector graphics or flat colors at the time.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Doom and similar are 3d
lol
lmao
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Not him but it's the primitive basis all 3D is derived from. No modern game is "truly" 3D. It's all vector lines and textures contorting to form the illusion of 3D while rendering capabilities and memory storage atop it all gets more complex as development continues to progress. It's not like there's a fully-fledged hologram behind your monitor.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>No modern game is "truly" 3D
No retard, all games are 3D, vertexs are positioned in a 3d space, you put it in the screen by calculating the projection from a point of view
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
And said 3D space is entirely based on artificial in-engine numeral calculations creating said illusionary vertices (not "vertexs", fellow retard). Doesn't matter how basic or lacking idTech/Build examples or even Star Fox were, it's all artificially designed around what's physically a 2D screen.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
I've never thought about it before but that makes sense. It's a clever trick, the kind you'd need to see a hypercube in the 3d space around you.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Fundamentally it's pretty basic to understand even without knowing how to develop an entire engine down to its fine syntax, but with how crazy far we've progressed since then it's easy to get lost in just how much we've built upon it since then. Still pretty cool stuff to learn all the same.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
idTech 1 (Doom) isn’t rendered in 3d, if that’s what you are trying to imply.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>no retard, this 3d space made by programming code telling shapes and colors to bend a certain way better than doom did means its an actual 3d space now lol
Yeah and AI bots are also actually just tiny breathing people living inside your cartridge or disk waiting to play against you.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
it's not really 3D, it draws it to look like it is but the maps are all flat with no height map
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Doesn't stop it from rendering a 3D "space" with technical vertical movement involved. Pretending it's closer to a 2D game (parallax or not) is a disingenuous as retards pretending a platform fighter is closer to digital boardgames than muh fighters.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Doom literally dies not have a 3D renderer, it does 2D trace and outputs a list of line lengths, then flood fills the floors/ceilings.
How hard is to build a Godot game for mobile? I know there is a fork for that but I would prefer to stay on the main branch.
There is a bunch of tutorial but they are all for older version of the engine, dunno if much changed or if they are still valid.
Also, is there any way to get on Playstation/Switch other than commissioning Lone Wolf Technology?
>How hard is to build a Godot game for mobile?
There's an option to start a project for mobile directly in the main project manager, besides the caveat that you can't use C# when developing for mobile (it's in the docs) I don't know how it would be any different, haven't tried it myself >is there any way to get on Playstation/Switch other than commissioning Lone Wolf Technology
The only other way is doing it all yourself and seeing how it goes. If you have the spare cash to get a devkit you can see for yourself how hard it will be. Though appreantly exporting to Xbox is easier since you can use UWP, but again I haven't tired it.
real game developer chads, how do we help these babby C#/Unity "game developers" learn to be as confident in our craft, unbeholden to rip-off tools, as we are? most of them will never listen and continue to wallow in self-pity, now that the "game development" skills they thought they learned are useless. do they deserve this fate? can we save them? or do we just let them fuck off to their Godot Containment Zone like they're all in the process of doing
No I have a normal job and hate God, now answer the question
guess there's no hope fellow real game developer chads. they question our superior methods without realizing how silly they look doing so.
it's like watching a small boy try to build a real chair by hammering nails into boards using a plastic toy hammer. then, his plastic toy hammer gets taken away, and a real carpenter with a real hammer stands over him and says, hey kid, wanna learn how to do what you're trying to do but for real? and the boy just throws a tantrum about how hard it is to lift and hold a real hammer, much less strike a nail with it.
good riddance, babby "game developers"! by all means, keep thinking that pointers and memory management are too scary for you. maybe you'll grow up one day.
That analogy kind of sucks because correctly engaging a child's interest is a skill unto itself and the carpenter just fails. Really telling people they have to create their own bespoke engine is more like telling them they need to make their own hammer.
yeah it's not the best analogy but to continue it, "making your own hammer" is extremely easy, in this context, much easier than the child thinks it is. you just have to start small and level up your skills at your craft instead of trying to make (like someone in another thread suggested) a RE4 clone right out of the gate. there's so many core principles about programming and game development specifically that you should learn before attempting something like that (a clone of a game made by dozens of people).
seriously, the fundamentals are not hard to learn. I've taught them to many people, even got one friend to change his career to software engineering (while keeping gamedev as a hobby) from being a music teacher. some people though simply have zero desire to learn the correct way to do something, and give up if they don't have a bingbing wahooman bingin and bongin around the screen within five minutes.
no thank you—I don't need to be identified for my point to remain true
Go tell that to all the publishers switching to Unreal, I'm sure your words will enlighten them
Unreal is much better than Unity on every conceivable metric, but, still: independent developers should start by *finishing* making *at least one* C/SDL or similar game. it is not at all difficult to do—arguably, the most difficult part is coming up with a simple enough idea and keeping design scope in check. you make a simple game, and it works, and it's finished, and from *there* you can start looking at Big Boy Game Engines. I can't understate enough the importance of getting a better idea of how making an interactive real-time executable computer program actually works, before seriously engaging with higher-level abstractions of such things.
if you only learn how to think about game design in terms of, for example, Godot Nodes, or Unity Prefabs/Scenes/Entities/Components, you'll forever be limited in how you think about having the computer solve problems for you, because all of your supposed knowledge about how to make the computer solve problems for you is in the schema of some domain-specific architecture that you yourself did not create, and, at the end of the day, the computer does not care about Nodes or Components or whatnot.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>independent developers should start by *finishing* making *at least one* C/SDL or similar game
autistic Ganker level take what the fuck lmao
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
if you can't figure out how to make a platformer with more than one level and maybe a pause screen and title screen, in a weekend with C and SDL (even if you've never used either before), you're not a game developer—you're a Unity or Godot user.
I roughly agree with you in that a lot of people are too impatient and ultimately have no fucking idea what their software is even doing let alone design principles. But still, if you know enough and want to create a product it's just not very expedient not to use the tools available (as long as they don't charge you every time somebody sits in your chair)
>the lightweight, fast, and free game engine behind hits like Sonic Colors: Ultimate
Whoever wrote this really needs to do their research before writing their next advertisement
>I assume are decently written compared to garbage-tier YT videos
That's how they trick me too. They're nothing above what you can find with a simple search. For their price in a bundle though it's still not really a bad deal.
are tutorials that people try to sell ever any good? last one I tried was just ad-hoc bullshit that didn't really teach you any useful underlying principles but was just like the illusion of creating something
you say this but the moment you actually got successful unity will demand you pay them hundreds of thousands of dollars or possibly even millions and itll be more then you made
At that point... does it matter? Honestly i should be thankful they gave me the tools to reach that goal. Godot would bite me in the ass and i would be stuck forever. >Price good engine > shitty meme engine
Any fuckin day.
Cope Godotlet. How is the physics there? Can you even pause the particles? Do you have engine support? Is the renderer a joke? I could go on with those roadblock but i start to feel sad for you.
Unity is also STILL a better financial decision than unreal once you break the $1,000,000 mark, and it's not even close. Plus, if your game is priced competitively, you'll have multiple millions by the time you ever reach one million installs.
>Unity is also STILL a better financial decision than unreal once you break the $1,000,000 mark
how? They take 5% on everything OVER 1 million so if you make 1million and 1 dollar you owe them 5 cent total. How is that not better than paying unity tens it not hundreds of thousands for the same amount?
they only collect royalties on the installs AFTER the first million installs, retard. Also, think about it this way: if your game is 10 bucks (very reasonable and average price for an indie game), and you sell 100000 more copies. Assuming no taxes/whatnot, you just made $1mil. Assuming an average of 1.5 installs, Unity's taking $100000*1.5*0.15 = $22500 (2.25%) of that. That leaves you with 2.75% ($27500) that you wouldn't have if you were on Unreal, and that's also enough to get licenses for up to 13 developers (way more than most indies have).
No they collect after the first 200k unless you pay them 2k or whatever the fuck it is for unity pro, per developer per year. Within the threshold of 1 million unity takes their cut, unreal takes nothing. You have to earn significantly more than a million before UE becomes more expensive than unity.
except this is wrong, because you'll never actually be able to hit the 200k threshold and I don't know why they even include it. picrel- you have to go pro once you have $100k rev over the last 12 months
you stupid retard if you make 1 million with UE you pay nothing, how is unity taking almost 3% of your revenue better than 0%?
dumb fuck, you pay 2.25% AFTER your first million. AFTER
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>you have to go pro once you have $100k rev over the last 12 months
They removed this cap in exchange for fucking you on installs, its an upsell to pro after removing the cheaper tier. > you pay 2.25% AFTER your first million
You are ignoring the money they take before a million. Unity was always cheaper after a certain threshold, this is not news to anyone. For the vast majority of indie devs who plan to make 1-1.3 million its cheaper to use UE. If you have a larger team its cheaper to a much higher degree.
This change was also never that bad for high earners, it fucks over smaller indie devs which is the majority of their userbase.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
It's fine for smaller indie devs too. Who it really hurts is the indie devs that make their first hit game and so have no way to anticipate their bill before they receive it.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
it hurts smaller devs who sell cheap games that are successful. 200k installs is more like 100k users, possibly less over a longer period of time. this means you are beginning to get taxed in installs before you hit 1mil if your game costs less than 10 bucks, as your game goes on sale and as people begin to re-install it on different systems the percentage you spend on unity vs what you take as profit becomes worse and worse. these are not calculations you even need to think about with UE till you're big enough to be running your own studio.
I'm so glad I'm working on a 3D action which it's a no-brainer to choose UE.
I can't imagine if I was working on a 2D game now. My options would be scummy Unity that's literally rotting, or Godot that is literally decades away from usable and has literally no funding.
I work with UE and it's been great but UE should NOT be used for 2D.
They had Paper2D that hasn't been updated for decades. Epic itself donated half a million to Godot for them to improve their 2D features. Epic has (correctly) given up on 2D, they are specialized in 3D.
Stop being stupid and talking shit.
There is only one thing I dont get about all this shit still though
If the idea is to sell your shares before doing the move to destroy the company, why destroy the company in the first place? I would assume these people are smart enough to already it will destroy it, right?
As long as I can make free games without being garden gnome'd then I'll keep using Unity.
Unless some one steals Unity's code and makes Black Jack n Hookers Unity then I'm not interested. Unreal is for le real life grahfix n shit and godot is shillware
Unity was the perfect indie game maker for any direction of game you could really ask for, but of course that EA niglet had to ruin a good thing with his garden gnomery.
of course you'll stick with Unity til the death, because you don't know how to actually make games. all you know is how to think in Unity's high-level primitives, with all the actual work being far abstracted away from you. if Unity disappeared from every hard drive tomorrow, you wouldn't have the tiniest shred of a clue as to how to create a video game. yet you fashion yourself a "game developer"?? utterly nonsense and endlessly shameful.
-you need to add more then a dollar to account for more multiple reinstalls, trolls, botnets and pirates
-you cant offer games for free anymore
-no more free demos
-charity gamepacks are basically dead
"just raise the price" is an answer only the garden gnomes would give
Not to mention that this beyond stupid Godot team is anti AI. It's literally the future. It wont keep up with Unity, UE5 and even other engines. Not like they are keeping up right now to begin with.
>FOSS techbros >being anti AI
somehow I don't believe this, those fags would love to automate their entire process until they have to do exactly nothing.
In my mind, the only thing fucked up about this is the technical aspect. I see no good way to solve the piracy problem with this scheme. But in terms of finances it's really not disastrous. Greedy? Absolutely. But you're playing around with a publicly traded company, don't know why anyone was surprised. Unless your game is super cheap or you have a huge team, Unreal still costs more with their 5% royalty on revenue, even when you take Unity's additional licensing cost into account.
It's the "trust me, bro" on counting the number of installs. It's also makes it incredibly difficult to budget. If you could trust Unity, it would be fine. But they pulled this shit, near the end of the year with no warning, unilaterally changing a key agreement. Proving they can't be trusted.
>another thread where Godot gets completely BTFO by all sides >yet some delusional retards keep arguing for Godot
Either paid shills or sunk cost fallacy.
Actually, you don't know anything about business. You said a $1 (one dollar) price increase will cover 5 (five) installs at $0.20 per install. Steam takes $0.30, publishers will take a variable amount but lets say $0.10 on the low end, vat/sales tax will be variable depending on where the point of sale takes place (AUS is 10% for example), so that leaves whatever is leftover to be deducted against COG for income tax depending on if it's an LLC, Delaware corporation, or sole proprietorship. So 1-0.3-0.1-0.1= 0.5/0.2=2.5 installs.
No f2p, no $2.5 vampire survivors, no demos, no game pass, no sales. Get your dumb ass out of my face.
ok fuckin nerd, I didn't read most of that but if $1 is 2.5 installs according to your (incorrect) math, then let me rephrase: Literally add 2 dollars to your price, indies. TWO FUCKING DOLLARS. You'll cover FIVE installs, you dumb fucks
There's also the fact that install fee scales down to 2 cents once you're past 1 million installs. A lot of people seem to conveniently forget about that and do all their math with 20 cent installs instead.
>what didnt exist now exists >what exists is not subject to change
Im not playing on a playground that may or may not install razorblades at the bottom of the slide, period.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Well if in this hypothetical you are the developer who used unity, then you're already past that call. You have already decided to use an engine on a subscription basis for the license, with an explicitly non perpetual TOS.
Says who? They could boot their own botnet and say a game got 6 gorillion installs based on the spyware they add into their runtime. Not to mention Unity games are immediately cracked even in they only go on steam. Are they really going to differentiate piracy installs from legitimate ones when they can't even provide timely support for their own fucking engine?
I'll admit, I don't buy it from a technical perspective. BUT, if it does work as they say (unlikely), then it really is this simple. If it doesn't, then they have an even larger PR disaster on their hands and the company dies.
>There is no room for scamming because it immediately opens them up for legal action
"hi, this is unity, we think you have X installs, and that your records stating Y are a fabrication on your part. if you have any complaints please speak to the pajeets in our fraud department"
Godot has literally made Gamemaker obsolete in every way conceivable and YoYo are corporate schmucks themselves. Plus, Gamemaker will regularly corrupt your files. It happened to me 5 times before I finally switched to Godot years ago.
Ive never used Gamemaker due to a friend telling me "be prepared to spend 6 months starting a game youre really excited about and then one die the entire project and its backup being corrupted for no reason whatsoever"
I've been working in GMS1 for years and that's never happened.
it has several backups, it's always good to put a copy into drop box after every major bit of progress.
the only time I've seen it corrupt shit is if some idiot opens 2 instances of the same project and makes changes with both versions open.
You will not finish your games if you make your engine or fix some FOSS turd engine. Unreal is unironically the fastest way to production, it handles all for you
it doesn't handle everything for you. you have to understand how to work in unreal and how to expand on it, which can still take a significant amount of time if you're properly making a game. the fastest method is technically just asset flipping, but that's a low bar to hit.
not every game has to be high-poly complex-visuals scene graph bullshit. many excellent games have designs that require none of that heavy lifting. and if something ever happens to that tool, you're fucked, because that's all you knew, and you never thought to take the time to spend a weekend making a simple platformer in C/SDL or equivalent. you're the kind of person who would unironically dictate his game ideas to an AI that made a shitty, underperforming jankfest of a game, just because it would be a more convenient "tool" to "learn". you'd get good at the right kind of bullshit phrases to invoke with the AI to produce an incrementally better game, instead of caring at all about the internal workings and fundamental nature of these complex machines you wield like a naive child, instead of a practiced master craftsman. and you call *me* the retard? for shame, retard morongay supreme! learn to fucking code!
Bait or retarded. Unreal gives you access to the source code, you can literally go as deep as you want with the internals and optimize every autistic detail you want. It is the best engine code base available and you can learn something from it.
Unreal engine isn't like the old days of 3 or UDK.
Its a real fucking maze of menus and menus of endless fucking click options.
Takes so much more to learn the interface and engine now.
I've kept trying to go back to it since 4 came around and I never manage beyond a few hours. Tutorials are basic, online tutorials are all jank or don't work because some shit changed between versions.
Then you have the current ongoing issues, since the internet locked itself tight as a result of GPT bot scraping the internet for data to swallow up, search engine results have now diminished even further, so looking up specific help questions on technical stuff is next to fucking impossible.
I really wanna like Unreal and get into it, but I feel it's something way better suited to teams of devs over solo guy in bedroom.
the only reason the license in unreal is so lax is due to the fact that indies dont fucking use it. when unreal gets big again, much like IF EGS ever got the traction it wanted, expect all the sweet licenses and dev cuts to go fuckin byebye
>when unreal gets big again
it already is big again mate, it's already all over the place again from AAA down to indies
5% over 1mil is already on the pricey side anyways, pricier than even the new unity model for non freemium shit. though in exchange you get things like excellent documentation and supplementary tools and free assets and whatnot, all shit unity does not provide.
>down to indies
no, people toodle on unreal for free. there isnt some underground indie unreal scene >BUT MUH YOUTUBE VIDEO WHERE SOME RETARDED SCANDI TEACHES ME
indies arent using unreal
Even if they come out with Unreal 6 with a terrible agreement, you could still continue to use and modify their past Unreal versions. They are explicitly not allowed to change their licensing on their past versions, unlike Unity.
Tim Sweeney has Fortnite and his own storefront, those ecosystems are far more valuable than UE even if it becomes the de facto best game engine. Epic Games is also not subverted by actual garden gnomes unlike garden gnomenity. Tencent are crypto-garden gnomes but even they're not unhinged enough to pull this bullshit.
epic makes all of its money in unreal, fortnite is in decline, and im not choosing the lesser of two gnomish evils, you own nothing with unity and unreal
Why do I need to spend time creating a game engine, then make a game, when I could just start with developing a game in the first place with a preexisting engine?
because you can tailor it to only have key features presented to you and in a way that's intuitive. one could argue that alternatively, you'd end up learning how to use an existing engine before making a game.
>tailor it to only have key features presented to you and in a way that's intuitive
Isn't that most game engines already? The only legitimate reason to create a custom game engine is if you are trying to do something VERY specific that no other engine out there has that doesn't have that as a base feature and/or can't be added on through various means.
the build your own engine queers are tech illiterates that think you can just fart one out in an afternoon to 6 months, and fail to realize even if you spent a decade making your own, you could just as easily use some foss engine that probably does everything you want in a more intuitive way than whatever fucked up anonymeese you may have written it in
hyperretard ultra-triple nigergays fail to see the distinction between using a FOSS "engine", and using FOSS *libraries* or *code*, and the breadth of this gulf cannot be understated enough. it shows that you don't understand what a "game engine" really is at the concrete level at all. hint: MonoGame and raylib and SDL and so forth aren't "game engines", but you can use them to create your own "game engine".
you're not a game developer, you're a game engine tool-user.
>the build your own engine queers are tech illiterates that think you can just fart one out in an afternoon to 6 months >you could just as easily use some foss engine that probably does everything you want in a more intuitive way than whatever fucked up anonymeese you may have written it in
Exactly the point I was making in
>tailor it to only have key features presented to you and in a way that's intuitive
Isn't that most game engines already? The only legitimate reason to create a custom game engine is if you are trying to do something VERY specific that no other engine out there has that doesn't have that as a base feature and/or can't be added on through various means.
. We aren't in the 90s anymore were someone can just shit out a Super Mario 64 engine clone in a week or two. More specifically, they can't do that within less than a year that still, at the very least, has the same level of sophistication as the SM64 engine.
Which I might add was made with a TEAM of people that knew what they were doing. Not just 1 guy that took 1 or 2 programming classes and think they're masters of a programming language.
i'm not denying that prototyping your game in an existing engine is fine if you aren't being inventive enough to need revising, but i'm just saying it's an investment either way. you either invest in making your engine and understanding it, or using an engine and understanding it. the issue is you're at the mercy of the design philosophy of the developer for that engine, how they organized everything, rather than having a more abstract understanding of breaking off from certain conventions. i'm simply saying that if you're trying to build a game, learn what you're investing in first when it comes to engines. if you're able to decouple easily from engine to engine that's fine, but at that point you already have that prerequisite to build your own in an effective manner is what i'm getting at.
I can see where your logic comes from when it comes to time investment and being at mercy of the engine developer. But for that latter point I feel is defeated by using FOSS engines.
Ultimately I will agree to disagree with you, but you did make fine points.
i'm not denying that prototyping your game in an existing engine is fine if you aren't being inventive enough to need revising, but i'm just saying it's an investment either way. you either invest in making your engine and understanding it, or using an engine and understanding it. the issue is you're at the mercy of the design philosophy of the developer for that engine, how they organized everything, rather than having a more abstract understanding of breaking off from certain conventions. i'm simply saying that if you're trying to build a game, learn what you're investing in first when it comes to engines. if you're able to decouple easily from engine to engine that's fine, but at that point you already have that prerequisite to build your own in an effective manner is what i'm getting at.
>ahhhh geeeez these unity fees are rough, gamers! guess we'll have to raise prices by, I dunno, ten dollahs?! >Totally fine, Unity is a greedy and unethical corporation and we support you in this fight, developer!
really appreciate Unity taking the fall for indies here, they really care about us bros
I just reinstalled UE for the first time in a few years and compile times on a brand new project are taking like a minute, it used to be 5 seconds what did they change?
i have had 5 second compile times on UE 5, they changed something in the past few months or year to fuck up compile times, i think they did something retarded and limited hyperthreading or something.
there's a lot of fucking stupid Gankertards in the thread right now so let me say this: building your own game engine as a solo dev is retardation. You can dig with a shovel, or you can dig with the fucking bagger 288. It's an easy choice. You're not cooler or better just because you like to autistically make things harder for yourself. Remember, a software engineer's job is NOT to code, but to pick the right TOOLING for the problem at hand
It's utterly retarded for 3d, but there is a case for 2D ones, depending on the type of game. Of course, there are also a bunch of open-source simple frameworks for 2D that aren't completely abstracted game engines in the same way unity and unreal are, that you can learn from as well, and there is no reason to not just use one of those.
Why are you arguing over the price when thats the most irrelevant part of all this. No-one would care about the price if they did it legally, it would just be a simple decision for companies to make that wouldn't affect customers much.
For me it was the absurdity of paying per install, when they worded it like that, it seemed like a simple script would bankrupt the majority of the indie scene
I really like Godot. 3.0 was shit for 3D but 4.0 cleaned up nice. The only other engine solution I'm even considering right now is rolling my own.
[...]
godot sucks for 3D.
use gamemaker studio 1, write your own shaders and use library tools like:
https://forum.gamemaker.io/index.php?threads/smf-3d-skeletal-animation-now-with-a-custom-blender-exporter.19806/
https://github.com/RobQuistNL/P3DC
it's better optimised than godots crappy systems. or program collision and raycasting yourself.
it's always good to understand how your functions work.
You might have had a point if you didn't suggest fucking Game Maker for 3D
it has openGL rendering, a fast scripting language for 3D math, and has the advantage of not being bloated with bad 3D systems you'll need to replace with your own anyway.
what more do you need?
you need to learn how to render cube maps? shadow maps? normal maps?
need to learn polygon collision?, ray casting? people can help with that.
it's actually really easy to make a Game Maker clone in C—just without the editor. it's also a great way to start making your own engine.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
I hate data structures as it is. I can't imagine wasting so much time building the basics.
I set the starting line at a working rendering system and file management environment.
Holy shit dude, these things already exist (for free) outside of Game Maker. At no point in making a game do you have to design your own text editor to write it in
I have to make a definition system to keep track of all my functions, automatically add new scripts and do autofill suggestions.
I already have the perfect set up for that in GMS.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>calls xirself a "game developer" >"I hate data structures"
TOP
FUCKING
KEK
EVERY
TIME
LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
it's not fucking fun figuring out the most optimised way to store and retrieve shit. I already have to do enough of that.
I like actually creating things that are interesting. not tedious and monotonous labour to make something basic.
Holy shit dude, these things already exist (for free) outside of Game Maker. At no point in making a game do you have to design your own text editor to write it in
Read my final post - I have a problem with people thinking that firing just him would solve anything, when there are other people on the board who are worse.
I probably have to stick with unity because chatgpt can't do shit in the new godot.
Made a pretty cool techdemo while knowing nothing about coding and it's funny
No I am a genius actually, I know fuck all about c# and code, but I know logic and how I want things to work.
Me asking an LLM to do the work is literally just common sense at this point.
I will never need to know how to code and I don't have to, the whole meme of learning to code was just that, a meme.
it's the logical conclusion to engine-userism >computer: make me an open-world FPS MMO RPG with hardcore survival elements, intricate crafting systems, and tons of secrets >Yes to All asset store purchase prompts
Industry is completely saturated. No room for innovation. I will never make an observable impact on games. It's better to think outside of the box and do something original.
Just because Unity shat the bed so hard it killed itself doesnt mean everyone will jump ship to Godot, that's just a pipedream of godotfags who think now their engine will get enough users to become good. Most devs will go to UE, would you jump into a ship full of holes you have to patch just because it's free?
I doubt it. Mostly because it will take years for this to actually sink unity.
By the point they actually die everyone will have already fucked off to learn other engines and will have no interest in switching back.
this surge of new talent will be only positive for godot.
Stick around, learn it, by time you kinda know your way around, there'll be plenty of material to help you build what you want, there'll be a marketplace etc etc.
Best time for it.
Godot barely functions compared to the requirements of games made post 2002. This surge of 'new talent' is going to tank the reputation of the engine when they aren't able to just download assets for character controllers, AI, terrain etc.
by new talent I wasn't including the marketplace kiddies.
There are plenty of capable devs who've stuck with unity for so long because its comfortable, they know their way around the quirks and/or sunk cost fallacy kept them attached to it.
>character controllers, AI, terrain
literally all available from the asset portion of godots website
https://godotengine.org/asset-library/asset
it even has copilot so chatgpt can code your game for you
by new talent I wasn't including the marketplace kiddies.
There are plenty of capable devs who've stuck with unity for so long because its comfortable, they know their way around the quirks and/or sunk cost fallacy kept them attached to it.
They leave, move to godot, it'll be great.
if it's so easy it should take me a week, two at most, to transition to, so I'll just stick to verified engines that everyone else is using until then
I just looked up the first things that showed up when searched on youtube
Unity only slightly edges over Godot in terms of what people seem to push with the tools but this is a low bar end, I left out the top indie games that shit all over these graphically to keep it fair
And despite that, Unreal to me looks like it has more "fidelity" options but people itt said paper2D is outdated shit and makes me skeptical. If I didn't know any better I might have just threw up my hands and actually considered Unreal but I just need to know if the exact thing I build in unity can be 1 to 1 transferred over to unreal before I make that call...
Godot's 3D is pretty good, good enough for like 99% of indie dev use cases. It helps in that people will start evaluating it as an alternative. The Dusk developer has already committed to dropping Unity and started looking into Godot and he keeps jizzing about the 3D features he's uncovering.
he said any project that's currently in progress (like gloomwood) is too far gone to switch over, but he's done with unity for new development because they've tipped their hand
The very fact that Unity decided to do this extortion-level shit means if you don't switch to something else you're an unabashed cuck. Unity must burn.
1000%
The very fact that people will jump from one billion dollar company due to extortionate licensing to another billion dollar company that can and will eventually present you an extortionate license is retarded. You need to move to a free license that CANNOT be fucked with
correct me if I'm wrong but isn't godot free open source?
meaning if they add any malware or try to add subscriptions and contracts people can reverse the merge on github or just make a different repository of it that's free.
Its FOSS and its license is under the MIT license, so you cant gatekeep it behind a subscription as it is and one to one hundred autists will catch any malware someome tries to covertly include before it ever makes it in
Yep, what
said. Any time Godot gets too gay you can call steal all the good parts wholesale and call it Betterot. As long as you don't delete LICENSE.txt they literally can't stop you
inb4 unity rolls the whole thing back, wasting a ton of a devs time, or all the consumer level engines realize this is the way forward and they all start doing the same thing, also wasting devs time because now they need to go back to flipping burgers.
godot is open sauce to begin with, their business model doesn't involve charging the devs
It would be hilarious (and awful) if Godot won by doing literally nothing.
kinda the same story with blender isn't it? free software is the future.
Blender has come a pretty long way since 1.0
I spoke with the godot creator before he scaped Argentina
His original intent was to charge for godot but unity cuck him so went for open source cope out. Maybe he can go back to that plan now unity is offing itself
Wouldn't work since anyone can just fork from an earlier version and develop from it.
>if Godot won by doing literally nothing.
That's literally what they've been doing this whole time.
UE5 is so far ahead there is literally no point using any other engine include custom ones.
In a world of bad decisions, doing nothing wins the game.
>inb4 unity rolls the whole thing back
They'll most likely roll some things back, but obviously not all. It's a common strategy for pushing controversial changes, first you ask for something even more insane and then pretend make concessions. You still get to fuck over your users and they'll even applaud you for "listening" to them.
>but obviously not all.
they will if they care about the fact this all happened because their ceo clowned on them.
>they will if they care
So they won't, gotcha.
why would a bunch of money grubbing suits not care that their ceo tanked their company and ran? if anything, theyre waiting for a cool off period to make the announcement.
Because you can't fix a publicity disaster like this even by rolling back all the changes, so they might as well make some money and only change some of the stuff that angered people.
True, but they pushed too hard.
Big name reputable devs have already publicly abandoned the platform, and they actually have integrity unlike Unity.
Shovelware devs will probably come back (if they even left at all) but everyone else now knows they can just implement a new bullshit policy at any moment.
The trust has been lost, people won't stay with an engine that can suggest retarded and predatory changes like this at a moment's notice. Even if they try to roll it back, why take the risk?
Even if they roll it back the trust is broken. Many autists will migrate out of warranted fear of futute fuckery. And almost all programmers are autists.
the fact they tried to pull this shit at all shows that you should never willingly plant yourself in that live minefield of a platform
too late though, why would you switch back from Godot to Unity afterwards; LMAO
>spend years working with unity
>know it like the back of your hand
>suddenly unity bad and godot good
>begrudgingly start learning godot to port everything over
>suddenly unity not so bad anymore
>do you continue trying to learn a whole new engine, or go back to what youre already proficient in?
Godot isn't obtuse and uses the same langauge as Unity, you switch over and you're not gonna go back.
Isn't the C# support still shit in Godot? I hate GDScript and the retarded Python syntax.
>Isn't the C# support still shit in Godot?
Works fine as far as I can tell, what would you say is missing?
The docs can be a little shit but once you get a feel for it you can figure out where everything is on your own, more or less.
>suddenly unity bad and godot good
but godot isn't good yet, that's Unity's whole angle. Not everyone wants to make flash-tier 2d games and ps1 style meme games.
>do you continue trying to learn a whole new engine, or go back to what youre already proficient in?
I don't hire subpar shitty Devs who can't learn new systems. Fuck off back to Indiam
go to indeed.com or linkedin.com and search for Unity jobs. then search for Godot jobs. How many results do you get for each query? that should answer your question.
> I don't hire
exactly, Godotfags are all neets
>get punched in the face
>but he apologized so you'll take him back
>suddenly unity not so bad anymore
This is just battered-wife syndrome, get the fuck out while you can, retard.
You can't make mobile trash on Godot without doing your own ports from scratch and you actually need to know some math/programming to make a game. No visual scripting to hold your hand.
But Unity doesn't have visual scripting?
What are you implying
Hopefully someone with years of Unity experience understands the underlying concepts and not just Unity's implementations of them.
because godot isnt good?
>godot isnt good
define good. There's only three real issues I've had with godot that bothered me
1. by adding PBR they fucked up their shadow map baking for the older lighting
2. their video player only allows .ogg theora which is gay
3. Their physics kind of sucks (but so does Unity's you'd never use it if you can code your own)
I'm surprised they haven't pulled the antisemitism card yet. They must be saving that for when the Blizzards and Nintendos of the world start weighing in.
There is no rolling this back.
What are the devs gonna do? Stick around and wait for unity to have the next "great idea"?
Fuck no. You'd have to be stupid to stick around now that unity has shown what they are capable of.
its funny how you know devs are smart enough to readjust, but you also think unity is just going to stand around watching their company go bankrupt.
Their C suite does not give a fuck. They made some bad plays the last 2 years and faced with a long recovery road or cashing out and burning the company to the ground they chose the latter.
>but you also think unity is just going to stand around watching their company go bankrupt.
Yes, they will. John Riccitiello is the dumbest mother fucker on Earth, he kills companies. When EA finally booted him out, their stock QUINTUPLED in price in the following 2 quarters.
guess the guy just has the connections to get to the places he does, totally meritocracy
unity has proven to be an unreliable partner, and platform.
if you don't start investing your long term skills in a free, open source alternative, you only have yourself to blame
>just roll back the willingness to completely fuck over your whole userbase from one day to the other
Rollbacks will do nothing at this point. They showed their hand and people no longer trust them.
Maybe if they kicked out the CEO and reverted the TOS to how it was a month ago people would come back, but they aren't going to.
The CEO was one of the few people on the board to not sell significant amounts of stock in the last month.
false, he sold 2k exactly 6 days before the announcement (when it was at its peak price in months).
2k is nothing at all, especially when other board members were selling tens of thousands.
You his lawyer or something?
No, but why are people ignoring that, for example, Sisco Robynne sold 25,768 the same day? Or that Helgason David sold 12,500 on the same day? Or that Bar-Zeev Tomer sold 37,500 a few days earlier? Or that Dovrat Shlomo sold 68,454 the week prior?
Nobody is ignoring that. People have been laughing at shlomo during the course of this entire debacle. It doesn't let fagitello off the hook.
You say that, yet the article has the subtitle:
>CEO Riccitiello sold 50k shares this year.
People sell stocks, what matters is when they sell them, and months ago is not the same as selling just before an announcement.
Riccitiello should be ousted as the CEO, but he wasn’t hired by the board by accident, and I feel like people are just going to forgive Unity when that happens.
>Riccitiello is a hired professional scapegoat
I mean, that makes sense.
>get all the wrath focused on him
>while his buddies sell out even more, but get no heat
>gets "kicked out" to calm the public
>he gets hired somewhere else by his other buddies
Just as apoint of comparison as well, he sold over 600,000 shares 2 years ago, and sold over 200,000 last year, so 50,000 in a year is odd for being lower than usual.
>Dovrat Shlomo
This is the most funny thing to come out of this debacle.
Was it your goal to use antisemitism to defend the CEO garden gnome?
I listed the people on the board who sold a significant number of shares; any antisemitism you see is the result of your own projections or neuroticism.
>it was only a little bit of crime
>others were doing more of it
Tell it to the oven, fuckboy.
See
And just ti clarify, the 2000 share trade made Riccitiello $77000, all but one of the other large trades was in the millions.
They can be on the same baking tray.
Yeah, not really, when the CEO sold an order of magnitude less and did so the latest, but the entire focus is on him.
He's been selling off shitloads of shares all year. They certainly didn't plan this bullshit only 2 weeks in advance.
>2k is nothing at all
he's sold 50K+ over the last year though
he owns 700,000 shares
that 2k was a scheduled sale (as to avoid insider trading issues with the SEC) filed with the SEC in advanced, and represented 0.3% of his holdings in the company
the stock price barely dipped anyways, the garden gnome CEO clearly thinks in the long run this will make them money and investors don't seem particularly worried either
I dont doubt that Unity will hard rollback, not 100% but they will. There's just too many unknowns for Unity to commit to their decision, it would actively involve bigger companies like Nintendo, Pokemon Company, Marvel, etc. taking action against them unless they revise their decision.
The problem is the fact that this is even a thing. And it goes to show how you can NEVER put your eggs in one basket in regards to game engines. You can't predict what ass-backwards decisions the company behind the engine will do that fucks you over by proxy. This whole scenario is just a wake-up call, hopefully the whole migration to Godot will do it favors and make it a perfectly viable engine on par with Unity. Because I do think it's close.
they need to get a federal investigation for insider trading
Brother sam bankman was not charged for doing more. No way in hell an israeli malware company will be convicted of anything.
You are sorely mistaken if you believe any punishment will be delivered to people like Tomer Bar-Zeev or Shlomo Dovrat.
After investigating ourselves we have found ourselves to be not guilty!
>devs of games like Among Us and Slay the Spire have been crying foul over the policy
>Godot is FOSS, ensuring that such a policy will never happen with it
Unity could stoop to their knees and beg for forgiveness, but their reputation has been tarnished beyond belief. A new developer who is aware of what happened will likely not trust them.
there are like 300 FOSS game engines, many of them more mature than Godot. Most devs will just switch to Unreal
Name 3
obviously google is slightly retarded, but still.
how about 5?
MonoGame
libGDX
OGRE
Phaser
O3DE
>Phaser
if vampire survivors has taught me anything, its to not use this.
I'd never use it cause it's mainly for web games and it's JS-based, but it's still more relevant than Godot
>many of them more mature than Godot
eeeeh... Godot 4 is on par with Source 2 in rigid bodies simulations.
>many of them more mature than Godot
Name me the ones you think are more mature than Godot.
O3DE is new and it's miles ahead of Godot in 3D, it's not even close
libGDX, Defold, Monogame, Ebiten and even HTML-based engines like Construct are more mature/industry tested. Godot has 5k+ issues (filter by label:bug and it's still 5k+ kek) while Monogame has 722, Defold 996. Godot isn't remotely stable, it has breaking changes all the damn time. It's about as mature as bevy, the difference is that the bevy codebase isn't an ugly clusterfuck and the bevy devs don't pretend that their engine is production ready
Number of issues is correlated with popularity and usage.
are you implying that Monogame, the engine used for Stardew Valley, Streets of Rage 4, Celeste, Axiom Verge and FEZ isn't popular?
yeah I'm skeptical of Rust's usefulness in gamedev, but it's interesting to see a real attempt at ECS. I think for writing the engine itself Rust can work, especially if the devs/maintainers aren't anal about not using unsafe, but with a scripting lang on top cause I don't wanna think about the borrow checker for gameplay programming
Monogame is dead & abandoned.
>but with a scripting lang on top cause I don't wanna think about the borrow checker for gameplay programming
Scripting languages are not a good design decision.
>Monogame is dead & abandoned.
last commit was 4 days ago.
>Scripting languages are not a good design decision.
so you acknowledge that Godot sucks too then?
nta but you can make your whole godot game in C++ if you don't want to script
yeah via bindings, that could work for bevy and others too. Officially you use GDScript or C# as a scripting language. You'd have to be a retard not to use one of the two for 99% of use cases, whether you're using Unity or Godot or Unreal with the GC'd C++. It's pretty stupid to call it a bad idea when every major successful engine with countless shipped games does it
>so you acknowledge that Godot sucks too then?
Godot allows you to write C++ as well, but yes, relying on their Python equivalent is bad.
>last commit was 4 days ago.
The last commit was yesterday, this doesn’t mean they are actually moving forward; their Patreon makes $300 a month.
Godot is making 100 times as much, how much faster is it getting developed though?
Going by commits, significantly faster.
You don’t know what the “premature optimisation” quote refers to - Python is also no faster to write if you are competent at C++.
>You don’t know what the “premature optimisation” quote refers to - Python is also no faster to write if you are competent at C++.
evidently you don't and you're a euro-cuck to boot. Hint: with gdscript you just hit play, that's rapid iteration. For C++ you have to recompile the engine or gdextension. GDscript is fast for most things, especially if you use static typing.
>Godot allows you to write C++ as well, but yes, relying on their Python equivalent is bad.
don't fall into the premature optimization trap
gdscript allows for rapid iteration, you only should move something to C++/Rust/whatever once you identify it as a performance bottleneck
There is some retard from ukraine having a hateboner for Juan and his crew. He tweet at him literally every day. High chance that guy could be you lol.
bevy's codebase is nice but their autism at continuing to make a game engine for a language wholly ill-suited for game development is the real impressive part.
the whole point of Rust is autistic granualar lifetime management, which is something you just don't need to worry about in games at all. the only lifetimes you need to worry about are:
- stuff that remains loaded throughout the game's execution
- stuff that remains loaded for the current level/etc.
- stuff that needs to stick around in a temporary bump allocator for the current frame, at the end of which, the bump allocator gets reset, and that's that
- the stack
it's not worth it to use rust to make games because you're forced to write extra bullshit to get around the borrow checker, which is the whole point of rust. it's not a terrible programming language, in fact it's pretty good at what it set out to do, but, for games, it's borderline useless.
>Godot has 5k+ issues (filter by label:bug and it's still 5k+ kek) while Monogame has 722, Defold 996
I'm laughing because you think this is relevant
>more mature than Godot
Unreal Engine beats Godot in literally everything.
Unity could roll this back and it'd be way too late. Those who're really deep into a project on unity will stick around to finish it, but everyone else with half a brain cell will avoid it like the plague from here on.
John Ricatiello has NEVER rolled back a retarded decision
So he is a man of principle, we need more men like him!
I too was once an accelerationist
Then I looked at South Africa
you do know that south africa has tons of valuable natural resources that is the only reason why the rest of the world looks forward to buying for chump change, and for that they need the country to be utterly balkanized, right?
>trust the plan
They are not rolling shit back.
They NEED the money. Expect them to go under soon.
>inb4 unity rolls the whole thing back
Rolling back won't do shit to bring back devs.
They show they are willing to make massive, unilateral and retroactive changes to established contracts.
No one professional or semi-professional will do business with a partner like that, especially not in vidya where investment take years and RoI are mediocre on average - Unity engine is just not worth the associated risks anymore.
No, anon it's over. Nobody is gonna keep using Unity other than clueless pajeets.
>Steam takes 30%
>Government takes another 30%
>Company who saved you hundreds of hours of engine dev takes a quarter
>NNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
>Anon can't into maths
>Anon also can't into business partnership
The government takes 30% after expenses.
Unity takes an arbitrary amount based on data you don’t have access to.
Even if they rolled back the changes, the fact that this is even a problem shows that Unity isn't a reliable platform to develop your game on. Nobody sane is going to want to tie themselves to an engine where the owners can arbitrarily change the conditions on you at a moment's notice. At most, you'd have people releasing existing projects that are already too deep in on Unity before they switch to other engines for anything else they make in the future.
It's called burning bridges for a reason.
Anon the shareholders sold all of their shares before making this decision themselves.
Even THEY know Unity is dead.
>rolling back
>after the damage has already been done
lol
lmao
Even if they roll back, the damage was done, and nobody will trust Unity not to do something similar later.
This isn't your simple end-user product, anon. People, and teams put years of work into a system to make something. Without trust that they don't get rugpulled like that nobody in their right mind would invest so much time and effort into an engine with this kind of record.
Been said plenty of times already but I want to be part of the reply chain.
Even if Unity put this shit up for only 10 seconds. 10 SECONDS. Then immediately reversed that, said apologies, etc, the damage has been done. The big picture is that they were not only willing to do something so stupid, it's the fact they actually went through with it.
>inb4 unity rolls the whole thing back
that's never what they do, they always offer a "compromise" that you never would have accepted in the first place without this much worse threat hanging above your head.
Anchoring is scarily common
>We're releasing the game for 100 gorillion dollars
>"what no that sucks fuck you"
>bad press for like a week
>Fine, game actually only costs 90 dollars + tip + service fee + battle pass every week
>"Well, it's better than the 100 gorillion dollars so that seems fair"
anchoring is one of the oldest tricks in the book, they are doing it on a scale only a garden gnome could scheme of
It's likely that's what Unity is attempting, that's why I hope enough people just walk away entirely and sink the entire operation.
unity's trying a new method of anchoring where they don't actually pull anything back
rather they go public with a vague description of the changes they're making, so that internet pessimists are forced to assume the worst. then a few days later they clarify what they're doing without actually reneging on anything
I saw it that way too and honestly it's quite impressive. The clickbait journos basically do the work for them, instantly plastering it all over and outrage culture amplifies it
>>The clickbait journos basically do the work for them, instantly plastering it all over and outrage culture amplifies it
This is more like a psychological war. Unity devs gonna put microtransaction in their passion projects and spike up the game's price in order to adapt with new changes. The garden gnome is totally an anti villain here, he is both cares for the wealth of the devs and both punishing them for being the good guys.
I would love them for that
You can't roll back a burned bridge.
There is nothing to "roll back".
Changing contracts that were already agreed to is a quick way to make yourself a pariah in the financial world.
Unless shareholders force the gay CEO out by force as a sign of goodwill towards maintaining a proper ToS, it won't matter. Everyone knew he had vile intentions a long ways back after even EA was done with him, and several anti-Unity/consumer decisions later he just set a new low in digital service history. Trust in Unity will be fractioned from this day forward even if they do a full-rollback, nevermind this pretend partial bullshit they planned.
Source 2 SDK can't fucking come soon enough, I really don't want Unreal to be the only proper choice left while Godot and GameMaker take their time reaching that level.
Man, imagine being too greedy and incompetent at the same time, even EA doesn't want you.
I wish this would have happened like, 5 years from now.
Godot is just too green for me to willingly switch to it at this point, but I also don't want to use the bloatware that is unreal.
>I wish this would have happened like, 5 years from now.
This
Unity got it's 1 bite now it gets put down
nah, they roll it back to something like 5 cent per install and then begin boiling the frog.
You cannot unopen the bottle when you pull a flagrantly dystopic stunt like this, Unity is fucked no matter what they do. Why would I ever go back to Unity knowing they would inevitably try to do something like this again in the future? But they'd definitely try and "package" it better the next time.
>implying anyone goes back to unity after this
Best case scenario at this point is Unity goes open source with a name change after the company burns and goes bankrupt
Best case would be a competent studio buying it out and delivering the features that were promised for years.
>delivering the features
Unity as it stands is done for.
The case for unity being any form of private ownership has been completely burnt. It'll probably end up like stride; becoming open source but lackadaisically maintained.
its more likely some chinese company will buy up the leftovers after unity is forced to liquidate and sell off
If a shining beacon of hope like Microsoft or I don't fucking know who's popular with kids nowadays but you get the idea, bought Unity out, every dev would do an instant 180 and come back praising them for saving it from clutches of evil Tortellini.
Valve was speculated to buy Unity at one point, though that was when the engine was in a much better place.
Right. But you get the idea. A company with "good reputation" buying it out is equivalent to Unity having good reputation again in the eyes of Twitter.
unity is donezo
Hopefully browser devs switch from Chromium/Electron to Firefox/Gecko as well now as we know Google will try some shit if it wins its antitrust case.
This kills the game “dev”
>Learn to code your own engine
You do realize that many companies who use Unity are fully capable of making their own engines, and many of them actually do have games that use their own engines right?
The whole reason to use Unity in the first place is to save time and money, just like using any tool. The whole reason why a good number of these developers are upset isn't because they can't make their own engine, it's because Unity has pulled a fast one on them and is now demanding potentially more money than the tool saves in the first place, ruining the whole point of using it.
Anons that post "make your own engine" are just trolls who intentionally forget about games like Overgrowth, that aren't actually impressive in the slightness yet took nearly 10 years to be built from the ground up and came out only to be promptly buried by newer releases.
and people like you intentionally forget about games like brigador, who were a small team, made their first game on their own engine in 5 years and still has a high positive rating on steam despite chud accusations.
this only happens when you have a small team of very competent people. The importance of documentation, familiarity, etc. increases with team size and varying competence. This is true not just for gamedev but software dev in general.
Brigador and Overgrowth aren't even the same genre of game so the comparison makes no sense.
huh? genre has nothing to do with it. theyre both games built from the ground up in their own engines by amateur gamedevs.
>an engine for an isometric shooter takes as much work to build as an engine for a 3D physics action game
Yep, I'm sure it does anon. I'm sure it does.
it doesnt. and they spent all that saved time making the game look and play good. the overgrowth dev couldve learned something from them.
why would genre matter
they're both videogames made in engine
Why do you guys never sperg out like this when AAA devs use engines?
I'm pretty sure we've spent the last two weeks shitting on Todd's duct taped abomination
>learn to code lol
>no not like that learn to really code
I wonder how many game engines the person who made this pic has personally made
That's like saying learn to create your own electric saw, your own nails, your own hammer.
Why reinvent the wheel?
why havent you written your own language etc etc
Only one man was capable of this, and the world just wasn't ready for his genius.
Temple OS is functionally shit.
>techlets of Ganker barely know what a game engine really is
>tell people to code their own engines
What does a real game engine look like and how does one make it?
How does one make a game engine from scratch without a team?
Ken Silverman and Taxman did it
it is quite difficult but with a bg in computer science and game dev, you can follow https://learnopengl.com/Introduction as a great intro to the opengl graphics api. It took me about a year and a half to create a bespoke engine for my game.
you've made a bespoke engine in a year and a half...
now the obligatory 4 years min to make your game (before you decide to re-write the whole engine twice)
Whereas you could just use a ready built engine, make game in 4 years and have saved a year and half of pain.
That time and effort saved is worth 5% royalty to most for a reason.
Modern game engines have extremely useful features that even if you're a talented programmer AND mathematician you couldn't implement on your own, there wouldn't even be enough time to do so. It's not 1990 anymore, you're not competing with thousands of programmers and engineers that are better than you in every way and outworked you by a factor of thousands to one. Good luck programming Nanite on your own, for instance. Building your own engine should be a side pet project to make you a more solid programmer, nothing more.
but Notch said that engines are good
>make your own anvil
have you noticed jonathan blow hasn't released his third game yet because he insisted on making the Jai programming language and the engine from scratch.
>learn C++/Vulkan or gtfo
Anyone actually made a 3D physics action game on their own and delivered without it taking 10 fucking years like Overgrowth?
Better yet, anyone here?
I’m 3.5 years in, but it’s an immersive sim, not action game.
>anyone here?
>all these retards whinging about what will most likely turn out to be 0.5%-0.8% revenue loss
steam takes 33% or so
Plus from even just glancing over the pic I see the statements saying shit like "Humble bundle will bankrupt us" even though unity themselves says these are explicitly exempt.
These gays sure love drama
The problem isn't the amount, it's the fact that unity just decided everyone who's still making money from one of their games suddenly has to pay unity for the privilege of the end user using their own PC/phone/whatever to run a program. On top of the fees they're already charging suddenly hiking. No one wants to work with a company who's willing to pull that shit, and on top of that no one wants to be in a world where there's precedent to try to pull more of this bullshit.
I'm not defending Unity garden gnomeery in this however this is expected when you start making your game on a non perpetual license that Unity explicitly set up with "subscription fees and details are subject to change" in mind. They quite literally had it coming for not using one of the engines with a perpetual license.
If you make your games foundation one such license, how can you be surprised and outraged when it happens? The only reason for that would be if the new fee is outrageous, which it honestly isn't. If you run the numbers a little then for the average indie dev of medium success this doubles the amount of revenue they have to pass off to unity, which is to say it's still sub 1% of revenue.
Steam also provides a shitton of services and benefits that comes included
Yeah and you think using unity imparts no benefit upon a developer?
Fuck you, I'm not an engineer, I'm a code monkey
Has there ever been an Enginefag who preached this with a respectable game or even just engine PoC? I mean I know there have been devs posting who made their own engine, but the ones who don't shut the fuck up about it never seem to have anything to share with the class.
Learn to assemble your own PC and make your own OS before you ever reply to me
Making your own engine is viable for 2d but a fucking herculean task for 3d
Post engine bro
Yeah and why aren't these hacks coding their own operating system to run these engines on too!
And their own computer hardware, fucking talentless motherfuckers coasting off the success of IBM and Bell Laboratories.
show your game engine, retard
github link to your engine sir?
Everyone in this picture is more successful than you will ever be.
Dear anon, who has never coded in his life (this is a fact), what feature could my game possibly have that it would explicitly require a custom engine to implement? I'm not going to wait for an answer because I know I will not receive one because you cannot code, nor are you capable of learning to (your inborn IQ is just that low).
I've unironically installed Godot today.
Godot fans are obnoxious, they seem to spend more time preaching than actually using the damn engine. Meanwhile the non-NEETs in the industry continue using in-house engines, Unreal, other FOSS engines that aren't Godot, and yes even Unity
unity devs finna dabbin to get filtered by a less popular engine
Switching to Godot and being forced to learn how to use the tools is a good thing anyways. Too much handholding is a curse in the long run.
don't care
still developing on unity
>already knows his game won't reach the required threshold for downloads to be charged
based realist frog
me
Can you give me a free download of your game?
>you literally make this man bankrupt if you pirate his game 1 million times
>already knows he's going to fail and fail HARD
Unbridled honesty. I'm in awe.
>he now has to pay $2,000 instead of $700 to remove the splash screen
>eats it up like good goy cattle
>removing the splash screen is a necessity
>because.... it just is okay?
you will never make it again as soon as normalfags see that unity logo, the ecelebs already informed them
the best you can do is patreonbux
Publishers are blacklisting games made by Unity.
>Devolver Digital @devolverdigital
>"Definitely include what engine you're using in game pitches. It's important information!"
>t. GMI
People who complain are terminally online. Those who make games and are in the zone, dont even care and keep grinding.
More like j-Unity
Weren't the chingchongs developing an engine so they could pump gacha while keeping engine fees within Xi's utopia? What happened to that
>Unity is good, just trust me bro
Ahem
>shitty installer/launcher
>bloated as fuck
>filled with half-assed features
>older features got axed with no replacement
>buggy, janky, needs workarounds all the time
>"mods will fix it" mentality with paid scripts/resources from the market being needed to make gamedev viable unless you're really good at it.
And only NOW you retarded dipshits wake up to the fact that owners might not really care about making a good engine.
Ok i'm going to install Godot, are you sure this is going to help me achieve in building my dream game? For now it's going to be 2D, but i really want it to be good. Besides, i'm not really experienced when it comes to game engines, but i want to learn.
Godot is a meme. It's not bad but don't think of it as the end all be all. If it doesn't click with you, try one of the many other popular engines. Love2D is a good one for noobs.
If you want to make a 2D game godot is more than enough. Don't worry too much about what engine you might go with, just try one, see if you like it, and if you don't consider other options. Godot is zero risk so is the best to start with.
Godot has the same problems as Linux, great potential but it's still not there, almost everything has to be done from scratch, no shortcuts.
The engine of your choice won't define the quality of your game.
Pretty much any engine will be alright for 2d games. I'm not a huge fan of godot's interface myself but to each their own.
Gamemaker is a time-tested 2d game engine though, if you were into checking that out.
>import scene from blender
>all materials are broken and baked into the scene automatically
>can't edit scene in godot without making an inherited scene
>make inherited scene, inheritance breaks all links to the imported scene despite it's name
>setup new materials, assign all textures, override material of inherited scene
>model is in game and working right now
>have to make slight modification to original model
>'inherited' scene doesn't change with update to imported scene
>have to remake everything from scratch again
>save material as a resource this time to make it easier next time I have to make a change
>end up with 50 files for a single model since you can't bake them into the imported scene since nothing imports properly
>import a skeletal mesh
>all of the end bones in a chain are missing
>ask juan wtf?.jpg
>juan says blender doesn't support gltf right and acktually godot is the correct implementation
>blender adds leaf bones to fbx exports to fix gltf retardedness of end bones missing
>try to use fbx in godot
>godot doesn't support fbx anymore because it's not communist
>use external fbx2gltf plugin that godot has a convenient interface for
>fbx file is converted and all textures are duplicated with a 20 character long randomized prefix
>wtf?.jpg
>try to break links to 20 character long randomized texture files
>ERROR ERROR I CANT LET YOU DO THAT DAVE, GODOT IS NOT A DCC
>delete all materials from model before exporting to fbx
>repeat all the bullshit inheritance to setup the model properly in godot
This is why I wrote a customer scene exporter for Blender for my engine.
>juan says blender doesn't support gltf right and acktually godot is the correct implementation
Okay but to be fair it’s the same fucking thing with FBX and Unreal. Blender has ZERO fucking regards for industry standard practice with file formats, they do shit no other software using the format does and when they get called out they go
>TECHNICALLY the docs/spec doesn’t say we can’t do it that way so it’s not wrong, Will Not Fix
I love Blender but it’s a real fucking bucket of shit about 60% of the time.
>industry standard
The industry is falling apart, can't you see? All that shit needs to go.
>chuddot
Stop shilling your 5k issues shit.
Which company is John Riccitiello going to ruin next?
Ubisoft
What is there left to ruin? I am a stockholder of that trash. I know.
Tomer Bar-Zeev sold 495,000 shares just this year.
Helga Davidson sold 48,064 in the last 2 (two) months.
Gunther Piccalo sold 352,000 shares in the last week.
Why are you putting out fake stats?
Here's what will happen
>class action lawsuit regarding the retroactive contract changes
>unity loses, forced to remove the contract terms from older versions of the editor
>half of the community leaves, one third will continue to use the "last good version" of unity, the rest will suck up and use the new version of unity
godot isn't replacing anything lmao. it's fucking trash.
Shlomo Dovrat sold 635,000 shares in the last 4 (four) months.
But Godot sucks, like all open sores projects kek
RPG Maker or GDevelop?
if you know nipanese then rpgmaker, you can find tons of patches and the like.
VXAce if you know ruby
MV if you know Java
MZ if you enjoy spending money
2003 if you don't know how to script/program
Wolf RPG Maker if you don't want to spend money but want to know what it would be like
>if you know nipanese then rpgmaker, you can find tons of patches and the like.
you don't need to know moon runes or download esoteric executable patches to have a functional RPG Maker unless you're trying to get it for free (and even then Wolf RPG Maker exists)
just get it from steam or the main website.
it's not "a functional rpgm", it's the extra additions and plugins so to speak that is immensely vast and large compared to western rpgm forums.
ironic all things considered, tbh.
Unless you only want to make a basic rpgmaker rpg stay the hell away from rpgmaker. It is a very specific engine and just because people love bending it over their knee trying to do more with it doesn't mean it's good.
This, there's a lot of cool things being done, but they never extend past 5 minute demos.
It's hell to actually work with those "amazing" plugins and make fully-fledged games.
RPG maker requires a lot of tricks to get it useful for anything other than basic RPG games
Look at a game like Omori for example, literally an RPG in RPG maker. On the surface it seems like it shouldn't be complex to do in RPGM, but that took a ton of JavaScript add-ons that run like shit, Tiled for levels when the entire fucking engine's purpose is tile based map editing, and apparently required support from actual RPGM engine developers to not break when everything was said and done.
And then, of course, it required outside developers to port the game and still ended up broken as shit in the first releases of said ports when people figured out the touch input was on by default, so you could just teleport past events by moving diagonally.
It was also cracked open, all of the game's hidden secret events revealed, and reverse engineered for modding in days.
>all of the game's hidden secret events revealed, and reverse engineered for modding in days.
Pretty sure no engine, nor anything at all really, can protect you from a single autistic dataminer.
How do I buy Godot stock?
Shoo Ricotellini, shoo.
pass the pasta or the ravioli gets it.
Everyone is overreacting
And i thought Godot required skill
For me, is Cry engine or just UE
>And i thought Godot required skill
It doesn't, while offering all the freedom in the world. The hate against it is so baffling.
>The hate against it is so baffling
Damage control, shills and people with sunk cost. Not that baffling.
bro fist
I originally picked Unity because it seemed the easiest and I wanted to increase the likelihood of finishing anything at all since I have a habit of getting some basics mechanics down before getting distracted and starting over. Should I really have enough pride to put in extra effort to switch when the likelihood that I would be directly impacted is practically zero? The answer is no, but I may spend a weekend messing around with Godot and Unreal as a justification to procrastinate, further proving that I should not switch. My first attempt at Unreal was overwhelming since I had only used Python at that point, but maybe I could do better now.
> I have a habit of getting some basics mechanics down before getting distracted and starting over
try adderall or ritalin or strattera
I don't think it is worth taking drugs over a hobby. I already have a reasonably tolerable job that pays well, so its not like I need this to go anywhere. I just wanted to get something done and after aiming for a more reasonable scope, I've at least got to the point of designing levels to use my mechanics in now.
>zero experience with game engines
>30 minutes experimenting with Godot
>Picrelated.
And I'm not even a developer. Great job, Unity.
why not learn unreal engine 5 instead?
How good is Godot for 3D projects? I remember it being very 2D limited some years back.
Since the new Godot version it improved tremendously, now it's ... still objectively crap, both in performances and visual quality.
But on the other side it's also now completely enough for what 99% of all indie project actually *need*.
So unless you intend tomake the new Crysis of this era, Godot's okay-ish 3D engine isn't going to be the limiting factor.
I'm not chasing realism or graffix, but I do want flexibility for stylization. So messing around with shaders would be nice.
Also basic things like scaling separate bones in a rig, quite a handy feature for character creators.
On the topic of Godot's 3D engine:
I have a game that I had just started when the Unity's shit got announced: very simple graphics, but Dyson Sphere Program-tier in amount of moving shit on screen.
Can Godot deliver on that without requiring a GPU four time better than it would require with Unity/Unreal?
MultiMesh/MultiMeshInstance look like what I will need, but I don't know how optimized those actually are.
Both Godot and Unreal should be faster in terms of raw rendering.
There is a performance profiler in Godot you can use to figure out what your bottlenecks are. Here is one example of a potential problem -> solution for entity bottlenecks.
Depending on what you need multimeshed you want to use compute shaders to clone them, like if you want millions of grass blades.
godot sucks for 3D.
use gamemaker studio 1, write your own shaders and use library tools like:
https://forum.gamemaker.io/index.php?threads/smf-3d-skeletal-animation-now-with-a-custom-blender-exporter.19806/
https://github.com/RobQuistNL/P3DC
it's better optimised than godots crappy systems. or program collision and raycasting yourself.
it's always good to understand how your functions work.
>godot sucks for 3D.
then why is Kerbal Space Program and Cruely Squad so good?
Because cruelty squad looks like shit on purpose and is the easiest 3d genre to create.
>FPS
>easy 3D
bait
just use a 3D model software and import it into Godot, tard
>she's not using Blockbench
Cruelty Squad would be exceptionally easy to make from scratch, running as optimized as it is (not at all) on modern hardware or better.
Writing your own 3D engine fucking sucks, dude. There's a reason even professionals just use Unreal or something.
Not only were most Doom clones barely 3D (single floor maps with sprite enemies), a lot of them just used existing engines like idTech or Build
you can do almost everything the obvious naive way with like zero thought given to optimization at all and totally make a Cruelty Squad engine in a couple months tops.
Or you could use Godot and make it in like a week
or you could not be afraid of data structures and pointers
what specifically seems like it would be significantly easier to implement in Godot than in C when it comes to systems and mechanics? once you have a renderer and a game loop, implementing game logic is extremely straightforward. why do you think it's so difficult? because you don't even know what it entails?
you don't have to micro-optimize everything to make a functional video game. just putting a tiny, bare-minimum bit of thought into the way things are stored and retrieved in memory goes a long way toward unlocking the ability to do whatever crazy complex ideas you may have. most game programmers are not demoscene programmers anon
Pointers suck unless you are doing cheap pointer tricks like the doom fast invert square root or whatever
here's what it takes to easily make a Cruelty Squad-tier first-person shooter as far as memory goes:
you allocate a huge block of virtual memory at startup. in there, put a struct of stuff you want to keep all program long in. then a struct representing a level—when you change levels, replace that memory with the memory of the level you're loading. then, you have a bump allocator for temporary per-frame storage. a bump allocator is just a pointer and a counter. the pointer points at its memory. when you allocate from it, you return a pointer to (pointer + counter), and increment counter by the size of the thing you need to allocate. you use that allocator to get memory for anything temporary you need in a frame. then, at the end of the frame: you reset the counter back to zero.
that's it. bam: now you don't need garbage collection. it just works. everything's global because you just want to use one thread because you're making such a simple game. for your next game after you make Cruelty Squad Clone, maybe look into improving how this all works so that you can start using more than a single thread.
what's so complicated here anons? why is this difficult? why are you so afraid of learning how a computer actually works and using it to your advantage?
You think the only thing an engine does is fucking memory management?
that's just the memory part. then you have a game loop with a framerate limiter (easy). and in there, you have functions that update the simulation (easy). if your game has assets, then you need some way of loading the assets from the filesystem (easy).
you don't need a node-based scene graph system.
you don't need an entity-component system.
you might want a simple entity system (easy).
you might want a particle system (E A S Y).
maybe you want FMOD support? EASY.
save game system? just dump the memory to disk! EASY!
all any computer program ever does is memory management, retard. you access memory, perform operations on it, and store it. what do you think programming is anon? magic spells that make video games?
>tfw i learn 6502 and realize all i'm doing is putting numbers in specific places
you ape moron, are really suggesting writing up a new game engine instead of using a preexisting one that would do the same things. that's how dumb gorilla you are. HOOUGH HOOUGH
Even C users don't want to use C. People want something else so badly they flock to ugly ass C++ or even something as homosexual as Rust
did you even play it, do you understand how many mechanics and systems are in that game?
>"To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand cruelty squad"
Doom and similar are 3d, they used a bunch of sprites because technology couldn't render full textured 3d models very well yet. Its why most other "true" 3d games used vector graphics or flat colors at the time.
>Doom and similar are 3d
lol
lmao
Not him but it's the primitive basis all 3D is derived from. No modern game is "truly" 3D. It's all vector lines and textures contorting to form the illusion of 3D while rendering capabilities and memory storage atop it all gets more complex as development continues to progress. It's not like there's a fully-fledged hologram behind your monitor.
>No modern game is "truly" 3D
No retard, all games are 3D, vertexs are positioned in a 3d space, you put it in the screen by calculating the projection from a point of view
And said 3D space is entirely based on artificial in-engine numeral calculations creating said illusionary vertices (not "vertexs", fellow retard). Doesn't matter how basic or lacking idTech/Build examples or even Star Fox were, it's all artificially designed around what's physically a 2D screen.
I've never thought about it before but that makes sense. It's a clever trick, the kind you'd need to see a hypercube in the 3d space around you.
Fundamentally it's pretty basic to understand even without knowing how to develop an entire engine down to its fine syntax, but with how crazy far we've progressed since then it's easy to get lost in just how much we've built upon it since then. Still pretty cool stuff to learn all the same.
idTech 1 (Doom) isn’t rendered in 3d, if that’s what you are trying to imply.
>no retard, this 3d space made by programming code telling shapes and colors to bend a certain way better than doom did means its an actual 3d space now lol
Yeah and AI bots are also actually just tiny breathing people living inside your cartridge or disk waiting to play against you.
it's not really 3D, it draws it to look like it is but the maps are all flat with no height map
Doesn't stop it from rendering a 3D "space" with technical vertical movement involved. Pretending it's closer to a 2D game (parallax or not) is a disingenuous as retards pretending a platform fighter is closer to digital boardgames than muh fighters.
Doom literally dies not have a 3D renderer, it does 2D trace and outputs a list of line lengths, then flood fills the floors/ceilings.
>>FPS
>>easy 3D
Yes, theres a reason there were a million doom clones back when 3d was still in its infancy.
>be you
>instead, be me
>wake up
>launch Game Maker Studio 2.3
>make game without fear of being bankrupted
>tfw i'm not a unitydev
>nobody pays unity
>bankrupt them
>they cant afford lawyers to sue
How hard is to build a Godot game for mobile? I know there is a fork for that but I would prefer to stay on the main branch.
There is a bunch of tutorial but they are all for older version of the engine, dunno if much changed or if they are still valid.
Also, is there any way to get on Playstation/Switch other than commissioning Lone Wolf Technology?
>How hard is to build a Godot game for mobile?
There's an option to start a project for mobile directly in the main project manager, besides the caveat that you can't use C# when developing for mobile (it's in the docs) I don't know how it would be any different, haven't tried it myself
>is there any way to get on Playstation/Switch other than commissioning Lone Wolf Technology
The only other way is doing it all yourself and seeing how it goes. If you have the spare cash to get a devkit you can see for yourself how hard it will be. Though appreantly exporting to Xbox is easier since you can use UWP, but again I haven't tired it.
How long until Unity
is freeware, Lol
Unity will collapse long before that happens. Either that or they get acquired.
real game developer chads, how do we help these babby C#/Unity "game developers" learn to be as confident in our craft, unbeholden to rip-off tools, as we are? most of them will never listen and continue to wallow in self-pity, now that the "game development" skills they thought they learned are useless. do they deserve this fate? can we save them? or do we just let them fuck off to their Godot Containment Zone like they're all in the process of doing
Have you made any good games?
have you?
No I have a normal job and hate God, now answer the question
im not op but no, im workin on it
theres not much difference from unity and godot though.
guess there's no hope fellow real game developer chads. they question our superior methods without realizing how silly they look doing so.
it's like watching a small boy try to build a real chair by hammering nails into boards using a plastic toy hammer. then, his plastic toy hammer gets taken away, and a real carpenter with a real hammer stands over him and says, hey kid, wanna learn how to do what you're trying to do but for real? and the boy just throws a tantrum about how hard it is to lift and hold a real hammer, much less strike a nail with it.
good riddance, babby "game developers"! by all means, keep thinking that pointers and memory management are too scary for you. maybe you'll grow up one day.
That analogy kind of sucks because correctly engaging a child's interest is a skill unto itself and the carpenter just fails. Really telling people they have to create their own bespoke engine is more like telling them they need to make their own hammer.
yeah it's not the best analogy but to continue it, "making your own hammer" is extremely easy, in this context, much easier than the child thinks it is. you just have to start small and level up your skills at your craft instead of trying to make (like someone in another thread suggested) a RE4 clone right out of the gate. there's so many core principles about programming and game development specifically that you should learn before attempting something like that (a clone of a game made by dozens of people).
seriously, the fundamentals are not hard to learn. I've taught them to many people, even got one friend to change his career to software engineering (while keeping gamedev as a hobby) from being a music teacher. some people though simply have zero desire to learn the correct way to do something, and give up if they don't have a bingbing wahooman bingin and bongin around the screen within five minutes.
Go tell that to all the publishers switching to Unreal, I'm sure your words will enlighten them
do you have a projects you can share?
no thank you—I don't need to be identified for my point to remain true
Unreal is much better than Unity on every conceivable metric, but, still: independent developers should start by *finishing* making *at least one* C/SDL or similar game. it is not at all difficult to do—arguably, the most difficult part is coming up with a simple enough idea and keeping design scope in check. you make a simple game, and it works, and it's finished, and from *there* you can start looking at Big Boy Game Engines. I can't understate enough the importance of getting a better idea of how making an interactive real-time executable computer program actually works, before seriously engaging with higher-level abstractions of such things.
if you only learn how to think about game design in terms of, for example, Godot Nodes, or Unity Prefabs/Scenes/Entities/Components, you'll forever be limited in how you think about having the computer solve problems for you, because all of your supposed knowledge about how to make the computer solve problems for you is in the schema of some domain-specific architecture that you yourself did not create, and, at the end of the day, the computer does not care about Nodes or Components or whatnot.
>independent developers should start by *finishing* making *at least one* C/SDL or similar game
autistic Ganker level take what the fuck lmao
if you can't figure out how to make a platformer with more than one level and maybe a pause screen and title screen, in a weekend with C and SDL (even if you've never used either before), you're not a game developer—you're a Unity or Godot user.
I roughly agree with you in that a lot of people are too impatient and ultimately have no fucking idea what their software is even doing let alone design principles. But still, if you know enough and want to create a product it's just not very expedient not to use the tools available (as long as they don't charge you every time somebody sits in your chair)
I'm not seeing your game anywhere in this post...?
Post your game.
No Excuse
https://www.humblebundle.com/software/everything-you-need-to-know-about-godot-4-encore-software
>the lightweight, fast, and free game engine behind hits like Sonic Colors: Ultimate
Whoever wrote this really needs to do their research before writing their next advertisement
whats the issue?
Colors Ultimate is notoriously buggy as fuck.
>paying for tutorials you can find on the net
Corticellini, are you trying to become Godot's CEO too?
Meh, for a buck you've got lots of shit I assume are decently written compared to garbage-tier YT videos.
That's what I used to think until I purchased one, it starts good, then it always devolves into copy pasting.
>I assume are decently written compared to garbage-tier YT videos
That's how they trick me too. They're nothing above what you can find with a simple search. For their price in a bundle though it's still not really a bad deal.
are tutorials that people try to sell ever any good? last one I tried was just ad-hoc bullshit that didn't really teach you any useful underlying principles but was just like the illusion of creating something
>Create AI NPCs with Godot 4 and ChatGPT
is this for real? this guy can't even code
We've been conditioned so hard, that everyone is amazed that the program just runs, no online checks, no drm, no launchers.
ikr? you can see the advantages over Unity right away
Real talk here. Unity despite its many fuck ups is still the far surpior choice. Godot is a literal joke.
the good news is that we'll probably have more eyes on godot now
you say this but the moment you actually got successful unity will demand you pay them hundreds of thousands of dollars or possibly even millions and itll be more then you made
At that point... does it matter? Honestly i should be thankful they gave me the tools to reach that goal. Godot would bite me in the ass and i would be stuck forever.
>Price good engine > shitty meme engine
Any fuckin day.
Very organic post
Cope Godotlet. How is the physics there? Can you even pause the particles? Do you have engine support? Is the renderer a joke? I could go on with those roadblock but i start to feel sad for you.
thank you, you've answered my question
>Godot would bite me in the ass
elaborate
>asmon_funny_(4)
>asmon_sad_(2)
Did Riccitiello hire you?
Unity is also STILL a better financial decision than unreal once you break the $1,000,000 mark, and it's not even close. Plus, if your game is priced competitively, you'll have multiple millions by the time you ever reach one million installs.
>Unity is also STILL a better financial decision than unreal once you break the $1,000,000 mark
how? They take 5% on everything OVER 1 million so if you make 1million and 1 dollar you owe them 5 cent total. How is that not better than paying unity tens it not hundreds of thousands for the same amount?
they only collect royalties on the installs AFTER the first million installs, retard. Also, think about it this way: if your game is 10 bucks (very reasonable and average price for an indie game), and you sell 100000 more copies. Assuming no taxes/whatnot, you just made $1mil. Assuming an average of 1.5 installs, Unity's taking $100000*1.5*0.15 = $22500 (2.25%) of that. That leaves you with 2.75% ($27500) that you wouldn't have if you were on Unreal, and that's also enough to get licenses for up to 13 developers (way more than most indies have).
>$100000*1.5*0.15 = $22500 (2.25%)
the 100000 should not have a dollar sign, it was copies sold- typo
No they collect after the first 200k unless you pay them 2k or whatever the fuck it is for unity pro, per developer per year. Within the threshold of 1 million unity takes their cut, unreal takes nothing. You have to earn significantly more than a million before UE becomes more expensive than unity.
except this is wrong, because you'll never actually be able to hit the 200k threshold and I don't know why they even include it. picrel- you have to go pro once you have $100k rev over the last 12 months
dumb fuck, you pay 2.25% AFTER your first million. AFTER
>you have to go pro once you have $100k rev over the last 12 months
They removed this cap in exchange for fucking you on installs, its an upsell to pro after removing the cheaper tier.
> you pay 2.25% AFTER your first million
You are ignoring the money they take before a million. Unity was always cheaper after a certain threshold, this is not news to anyone. For the vast majority of indie devs who plan to make 1-1.3 million its cheaper to use UE. If you have a larger team its cheaper to a much higher degree.
This change was also never that bad for high earners, it fucks over smaller indie devs which is the majority of their userbase.
It's fine for smaller indie devs too. Who it really hurts is the indie devs that make their first hit game and so have no way to anticipate their bill before they receive it.
it hurts smaller devs who sell cheap games that are successful. 200k installs is more like 100k users, possibly less over a longer period of time. this means you are beginning to get taxed in installs before you hit 1mil if your game costs less than 10 bucks, as your game goes on sale and as people begin to re-install it on different systems the percentage you spend on unity vs what you take as profit becomes worse and worse. these are not calculations you even need to think about with UE till you're big enough to be running your own studio.
you stupid retard if you make 1 million with UE you pay nothing, how is unity taking almost 3% of your revenue better than 0%?
Unity used to be a literal joke too.
yeah, now it's just a punchline :DDD
I'm so glad I'm working on a 3D action which it's a no-brainer to choose UE.
I can't imagine if I was working on a 2D game now. My options would be scummy Unity that's literally rotting, or Godot that is literally decades away from usable and has literally no funding.
For 2D Unreal is still the best option. The tools in UE for animation and blueprints are so powerful they would make 2d shit easy as fuck
I work with UE and it's been great but UE should NOT be used for 2D.
They had Paper2D that hasn't been updated for decades. Epic itself donated half a million to Godot for them to improve their 2D features. Epic has (correctly) given up on 2D, they are specialized in 3D.
Stop being stupid and talking shit.
>They had Paper2D
now they have paper Zd
You keep forgetting the absolutely stable powerhouse that is gamemaker.
>godot has 8,399 open issues
is such a thing even possible?
i'm willing to bet the linux kernel has just as many. how many of them are actual issues and not feature requests? these get counted as issues.
isn't Godot called Godette now?
There is only one thing I dont get about all this shit still though
If the idea is to sell your shares before doing the move to destroy the company, why destroy the company in the first place? I would assume these people are smart enough to already it will destroy it, right?
Just curious why Godot is so popular among Germans. Are they autistic?
As long as I can make free games without being garden gnome'd then I'll keep using Unity.
Unless some one steals Unity's code and makes Black Jack n Hookers Unity then I'm not interested. Unreal is for le real life grahfix n shit and godot is shillware
Unity was the perfect indie game maker for any direction of game you could really ask for, but of course that EA niglet had to ruin a good thing with his garden gnomery.
of course you'll stick with Unity til the death, because you don't know how to actually make games. all you know is how to think in Unity's high-level primitives, with all the actual work being far abstracted away from you. if Unity disappeared from every hard drive tomorrow, you wouldn't have the tiniest shred of a clue as to how to create a video game. yet you fashion yourself a "game developer"?? utterly nonsense and endlessly shameful.
you will be garden gnomeed and all it would take is a botnet or youtuber playing it to make you bankrupt
thats not how it works
-you need to add more then a dollar to account for more multiple reinstalls, trolls, botnets and pirates
-you cant offer games for free anymore
-no more free demos
-charity gamepacks are basically dead
"just raise the price" is an answer only the garden gnomes would give
why are indie devs not using id tech?
Not to mention that this beyond stupid Godot team is anti AI. It's literally the future. It wont keep up with Unity, UE5 and even other engines. Not like they are keeping up right now to begin with.
do you think posting eceleb pics of le epic gamer is going to make your post glow less?
Anon, he is widely accepted on Ganker. You can make a thread with his face as OP and it will reach bump limit.
People bitching about a gay doesn't mean that they like him
hey, heads up, you should rename the reaction images they gave you to something less conHispanicuous.
Where did they say they were anti AI?
Saw Remi posting some anti ai art stuff. Made me unfollow him immediately. Go look up for yourself.
Wow, Godot team is beyond based. Glad I've stuck with it since 2019
I switched like 8 months ago when I was testing how the engines performed on Linux.
I love how full of themselves cats always look, lads. Funny lil shits.
huh, maybe i should switch to godot.
>FOSS techbros
>being anti AI
somehow I don't believe this, those fags would love to automate their entire process until they have to do exactly nothing.
Based. but can't anyone just modify it to add AI implementation anyway? It's open source, who the fuck cares
In my mind, the only thing fucked up about this is the technical aspect. I see no good way to solve the piracy problem with this scheme. But in terms of finances it's really not disastrous. Greedy? Absolutely. But you're playing around with a publicly traded company, don't know why anyone was surprised. Unless your game is super cheap or you have a huge team, Unreal still costs more with their 5% royalty on revenue, even when you take Unity's additional licensing cost into account.
It's the "trust me, bro" on counting the number of installs. It's also makes it incredibly difficult to budget. If you could trust Unity, it would be fine. But they pulled this shit, near the end of the year with no warning, unilaterally changing a key agreement. Proving they can't be trusted.
>another thread where Godot gets completely BTFO by all sides
>yet some delusional retards keep arguing for Godot
Either paid shills or sunk cost fallacy.
>t. unity shill seethe
you love to see it
Literally add 1 dollar to your price, indies. ONE FUCKING DOLLAR. You'll cover FIVE installs, you dumb fucks
You forgot publisher cut, steam cut, sales tax cut, income tax cut.
anon... respectfully, you don't seem understand the difference between income and revenue.
Actually, you don't know anything about business. You said a $1 (one dollar) price increase will cover 5 (five) installs at $0.20 per install. Steam takes $0.30, publishers will take a variable amount but lets say $0.10 on the low end, vat/sales tax will be variable depending on where the point of sale takes place (AUS is 10% for example), so that leaves whatever is leftover to be deducted against COG for income tax depending on if it's an LLC, Delaware corporation, or sole proprietorship. So 1-0.3-0.1-0.1= 0.5/0.2=2.5 installs.
No f2p, no $2.5 vampire survivors, no demos, no game pass, no sales. Get your dumb ass out of my face.
ok fuckin nerd, I didn't read most of that but if $1 is 2.5 installs according to your (incorrect) math, then let me rephrase: Literally add 2 dollars to your price, indies. TWO FUCKING DOLLARS. You'll cover FIVE installs, you dumb fucks
>just keep raising the price, goy, it's fine
garden gnome.
There's also the fact that install fee scales down to 2 cents once you're past 1 million installs. A lot of people seem to conveniently forget about that and do all their math with 20 cent installs instead.
>what didnt exist now exists
>what exists is not subject to change
Im not playing on a playground that may or may not install razorblades at the bottom of the slide, period.
Well if in this hypothetical you are the developer who used unity, then you're already past that call. You have already decided to use an engine on a subscription basis for the license, with an explicitly non perpetual TOS.
>game is limited to three reinstalls per user
>if you pay just $1 you can up your allowance to five!
[hand rubbing intensifies]
Says who? They could boot their own botnet and say a game got 6 gorillion installs based on the spyware they add into their runtime. Not to mention Unity games are immediately cracked even in they only go on steam. Are they really going to differentiate piracy installs from legitimate ones when they can't even provide timely support for their own fucking engine?
I'll admit, I don't buy it from a technical perspective. BUT, if it does work as they say (unlikely), then it really is this simple. If it doesn't, then they have an even larger PR disaster on their hands and the company dies.
You realize that the dev has ways to track the installs too? There is no room for scamming because it immediately opens them up for legal action
>There is no room for scamming because it immediately opens them up for legal action
"hi, this is unity, we think you have X installs, and that your records stating Y are a fabrication on your part. if you have any complaints please speak to the pajeets in our fraud department"
>open legal case and both parties lose more money than they could get out of it
zero interest in doing that
GameMaker is giving out free 3 months trial right now.
gamemaker is ass. Awful, just awful.
What's wrong with it?
redeem the gamemaker sirs
REDEEM
>F-Unity
Sticking with godot, but they got balls at least. Not even trying to be subtle.
Godot has literally made Gamemaker obsolete in every way conceivable and YoYo are corporate schmucks themselves. Plus, Gamemaker will regularly corrupt your files. It happened to me 5 times before I finally switched to Godot years ago.
Ive never used Gamemaker due to a friend telling me "be prepared to spend 6 months starting a game youre really excited about and then one die the entire project and its backup being corrupted for no reason whatsoever"
I've been working in GMS1 for years and that's never happened.
it has several backups, it's always good to put a copy into drop box after every major bit of progress.
the only time I've seen it corrupt shit is if some idiot opens 2 instances of the same project and makes changes with both versions open.
>Plus, Gamemaker will regularly corrupt your files
BASED gamemaker encouraging people to learn version control
They should obviously switch to Garry Kitchen's GameMaker like a true pro.
Switch to Unreal you fucking retards. Imagine wasting so much time in meme engines
no thanks, I like my games to run well
so you don't use unity right?
honest question, I'm not sure what your post's subtext was
I actually like to finish my games anon.
You will not finish your games if you make your engine or fix some FOSS turd engine. Unreal is unironically the fastest way to production, it handles all for you
it doesn't handle everything for you. you have to understand how to work in unreal and how to expand on it, which can still take a significant amount of time if you're properly making a game. the fastest method is technically just asset flipping, but that's a low bar to hit.
Theres simply no faster workflow, if you know what you are doing you can automate so much work. And if you dont know, its a great engine to train with
not every game has to be high-poly complex-visuals scene graph bullshit. many excellent games have designs that require none of that heavy lifting. and if something ever happens to that tool, you're fucked, because that's all you knew, and you never thought to take the time to spend a weekend making a simple platformer in C/SDL or equivalent. you're the kind of person who would unironically dictate his game ideas to an AI that made a shitty, underperforming jankfest of a game, just because it would be a more convenient "tool" to "learn". you'd get good at the right kind of bullshit phrases to invoke with the AI to produce an incrementally better game, instead of caring at all about the internal workings and fundamental nature of these complex machines you wield like a naive child, instead of a practiced master craftsman. and you call *me* the retard? for shame, retard morongay supreme! learn to fucking code!
Bait or retarded. Unreal gives you access to the source code, you can literally go as deep as you want with the internals and optimize every autistic detail you want. It is the best engine code base available and you can learn something from it.
if you use Unreal to make something like Void Stranger I'll track you down, climb into your bedroom at night, and shit directly down your throat
Unreal engine isn't like the old days of 3 or UDK.
Its a real fucking maze of menus and menus of endless fucking click options.
Takes so much more to learn the interface and engine now.
I've kept trying to go back to it since 4 came around and I never manage beyond a few hours. Tutorials are basic, online tutorials are all jank or don't work because some shit changed between versions.
Then you have the current ongoing issues, since the internet locked itself tight as a result of GPT bot scraping the internet for data to swallow up, search engine results have now diminished even further, so looking up specific help questions on technical stuff is next to fucking impossible.
I really wanna like Unreal and get into it, but I feel it's something way better suited to teams of devs over solo guy in bedroom.
the only reason the license in unreal is so lax is due to the fact that indies dont fucking use it. when unreal gets big again, much like IF EGS ever got the traction it wanted, expect all the sweet licenses and dev cuts to go fuckin byebye
>when unreal gets big again
it already is big again mate, it's already all over the place again from AAA down to indies
5% over 1mil is already on the pricey side anyways, pricier than even the new unity model for non freemium shit. though in exchange you get things like excellent documentation and supplementary tools and free assets and whatnot, all shit unity does not provide.
and i forgot the most important part, you get a license that doesn't have clauses to allow it to be retroactively altered at Epic's whims
>down to indies
no, people toodle on unreal for free. there isnt some underground indie unreal scene
>BUT MUH YOUTUBE VIDEO WHERE SOME RETARDED SCANDI TEACHES ME
indies arent using unreal
indie doesn't mean made with a $150 budget in a garage
Even if they come out with Unreal 6 with a terrible agreement, you could still continue to use and modify their past Unreal versions. They are explicitly not allowed to change their licensing on their past versions, unlike Unity.
Tim Sweeney has Fortnite and his own storefront, those ecosystems are far more valuable than UE even if it becomes the de facto best game engine. Epic Games is also not subverted by actual garden gnomes unlike garden gnomenity. Tencent are crypto-garden gnomes but even they're not unhinged enough to pull this bullshit.
epic makes all of its money in unreal, fortnite is in decline, and im not choosing the lesser of two gnomish evils, you own nothing with unity and unreal
Unreal engine makes fuck all compared to fortnite.
Unreal brings in only around $100 million a year, fortnite brings in billions even in decline.
are you an accountant at Epic? had no idea their financials were public
He's right, we all saw epics finances during the epic vs apple case
Unreal engine royalties was peanuts compared to fortnite
After this? Fuck no. Why the hell would I leave Unity for being scummy just to run straight to Timmy Tencent? FOSS or nothing.
Just bought a $5 course to learn Godot. As a hobby though.
They won't do shit. Nintendo has games made in Unity and they aren't paying shit without sueing them out of business.
why not just build your own engine using various header libraries?
shuuuuut the fuuuuuuck uuuuuup
maaaaaake meeeeeeeeeeee
harder to prototype stuff i guess
fair point
Why do I need to spend time creating a game engine, then make a game, when I could just start with developing a game in the first place with a preexisting engine?
because you can tailor it to only have key features presented to you and in a way that's intuitive. one could argue that alternatively, you'd end up learning how to use an existing engine before making a game.
>tailor it to only have key features blah blah
how many engines have you solo developed? oh none? color me surprised!
>tailor it to only have key features presented to you and in a way that's intuitive
Isn't that most game engines already? The only legitimate reason to create a custom game engine is if you are trying to do something VERY specific that no other engine out there has that doesn't have that as a base feature and/or can't be added on through various means.
the build your own engine queers are tech illiterates that think you can just fart one out in an afternoon to 6 months, and fail to realize even if you spent a decade making your own, you could just as easily use some foss engine that probably does everything you want in a more intuitive way than whatever fucked up anonymeese you may have written it in
hyperretard ultra-triple nigergays fail to see the distinction between using a FOSS "engine", and using FOSS *libraries* or *code*, and the breadth of this gulf cannot be understated enough. it shows that you don't understand what a "game engine" really is at the concrete level at all. hint: MonoGame and raylib and SDL and so forth aren't "game engines", but you can use them to create your own "game engine".
you're not a game developer, you're a game engine tool-user.
>game engine tool user
Good one
>no comeback
take the L and learn some C, fag
>the build your own engine queers are tech illiterates that think you can just fart one out in an afternoon to 6 months
>you could just as easily use some foss engine that probably does everything you want in a more intuitive way than whatever fucked up anonymeese you may have written it in
Exactly the point I was making in
. We aren't in the 90s anymore were someone can just shit out a Super Mario 64 engine clone in a week or two. More specifically, they can't do that within less than a year that still, at the very least, has the same level of sophistication as the SM64 engine.
Which I might add was made with a TEAM of people that knew what they were doing. Not just 1 guy that took 1 or 2 programming classes and think they're masters of a programming language.
I can see where your logic comes from when it comes to time investment and being at mercy of the engine developer. But for that latter point I feel is defeated by using FOSS engines.
Ultimately I will agree to disagree with you, but you did make fine points.
i'm not denying that prototyping your game in an existing engine is fine if you aren't being inventive enough to need revising, but i'm just saying it's an investment either way. you either invest in making your engine and understanding it, or using an engine and understanding it. the issue is you're at the mercy of the design philosophy of the developer for that engine, how they organized everything, rather than having a more abstract understanding of breaking off from certain conventions. i'm simply saying that if you're trying to build a game, learn what you're investing in first when it comes to engines. if you're able to decouple easily from engine to engine that's fine, but at that point you already have that prerequisite to build your own in an effective manner is what i'm getting at.
>ahhhh geeeez these unity fees are rough, gamers! guess we'll have to raise prices by, I dunno, ten dollahs?!
>Totally fine, Unity is a greedy and unethical corporation and we support you in this fight, developer!
really appreciate Unity taking the fall for indies here, they really care about us bros
I just reinstalled UE for the first time in a few years and compile times on a brand new project are taking like a minute, it used to be 5 seconds what did they change?
Are you kidding? Have you seen how bloated the engine has become?
i have had 5 second compile times on UE 5, they changed something in the past few months or year to fuck up compile times, i think they did something retarded and limited hyperthreading or something.
there's a lot of fucking stupid Gankertards in the thread right now so let me say this: building your own game engine as a solo dev is retardation. You can dig with a shovel, or you can dig with the fucking bagger 288. It's an easy choice. You're not cooler or better just because you like to autistically make things harder for yourself. Remember, a software engineer's job is NOT to code, but to pick the right TOOLING for the problem at hand
these are the words of the ideas-guy opportunist—not the knowledge craftsman.
Those are the words of someone who will actually release a game
what if that tool is connected to a multi purpose tool that obfuscates using it?
It's utterly retarded for 3d, but there is a case for 2D ones, depending on the type of game. Of course, there are also a bunch of open-source simple frameworks for 2D that aren't completely abstracted game engines in the same way unity and unreal are, that you can learn from as well, and there is no reason to not just use one of those.
>unity
>godot
Why are you arguing over the price when thats the most irrelevant part of all this. No-one would care about the price if they did it legally, it would just be a simple decision for companies to make that wouldn't affect customers much.
For me it was the absurdity of paying per install, when they worded it like that, it seemed like a simple script would bankrupt the majority of the indie scene
>using engines from people that dont develop games
Unreal is the way.
Should I go with Godot or Unreal?
Note: I have no fucking clue how to program and I want to learn for a couple years while I fuck around.
Unreal with blueprints can take you a long way.
We'll see tons of godot tutorials in the next few days, so it may be a good time to follow along.
I really like Godot. 3.0 was shit for 3D but 4.0 cleaned up nice. The only other engine solution I'm even considering right now is rolling my own.
You might have had a point if you didn't suggest fucking Game Maker for 3D
it has openGL rendering, a fast scripting language for 3D math, and has the advantage of not being bloated with bad 3D systems you'll need to replace with your own anyway.
what more do you need?
you need to learn how to render cube maps? shadow maps? normal maps?
need to learn polygon collision?, ray casting? people can help with that.
If you're already rolling your own everything anyway, you don't need Game Maker.
yes I do.
I'm not spending 3 years just to make a code editor, file structure system and render a fucking triangle on screen.
it's actually really easy to make a Game Maker clone in C—just without the editor. it's also a great way to start making your own engine.
I hate data structures as it is. I can't imagine wasting so much time building the basics.
I set the starting line at a working rendering system and file management environment.
I have to make a definition system to keep track of all my functions, automatically add new scripts and do autofill suggestions.
I already have the perfect set up for that in GMS.
>calls xirself a "game developer"
>"I hate data structures"
TOP
FUCKING
KEK
EVERY
TIME
LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
it's not fucking fun figuring out the most optimised way to store and retrieve shit. I already have to do enough of that.
I like actually creating things that are interesting. not tedious and monotonous labour to make something basic.
Holy shit dude, these things already exist (for free) outside of Game Maker. At no point in making a game do you have to design your own text editor to write it in
have any big/successful games come out on Godot yet?
Godot is a broken piece of shit, if you are scared of Unreal have a nice day
>scared of Unreal
lmao
Not everybody wants to cook their PC making a basic platformer or open world game.
>"Your honor my client only killed a couple of people after all, we should just be focusing on his accomplices here. He's practically innocent!"
Read my final post - I have a problem with people thinking that firing just him would solve anything, when there are other people on the board who are worse.
I probably have to stick with unity because chatgpt can't do shit in the new godot.
Made a pretty cool techdemo while knowing nothing about coding and it's funny
Are you a fucking moron or something? Code the game yourself.
No I am a genius actually, I know fuck all about c# and code, but I know logic and how I want things to work.
Me asking an LLM to do the work is literally just common sense at this point.
I will never need to know how to code and I don't have to, the whole meme of learning to code was just that, a meme.
hahaha
Part of me agrees with you, but i still think it's important to make the gears in your brain move a little.
>I'm a genius
>is not obsessed with knowing the inner workings of everything
lol k
you know when you ask chat GPT to write you a function, it explains to you step by step how the function works.
maybe you should take that opportunity to learn.
I usually tell her not to talk about externalities and to just present the code.
I am very serious right now.
Thanks to chatGPT I learned how to code some shit in openscad.
>people unironically asking chatgpt to write code
it's the logical conclusion to engine-userism
>computer: make me an open-world FPS MMO RPG with hardcore survival elements, intricate crafting systems, and tons of secrets
>Yes to All asset store purchase prompts
don't care
still developing on unity
I'm tired of installing 30gb unreal engine and do nothing with it
Which way white man
Curious how well 3D (F/TPS) performs with Haxe because while folks harp on that it's fast there are no real working examples
By "alternatives: you mean, feels like and haves everything like Unity but with no strings attached, and can run on C#?
Oh and has the same 2D sprite features as unity as well?
What open source 3D capable engines have people used here? Might just end up using Godot but want to hear if any others are worth looking into.
Industry is completely saturated. No room for innovation. I will never make an observable impact on games. It's better to think outside of the box and do something original.
And here I was, about to make a shmup with Unity.
Just because Unity shat the bed so hard it killed itself doesnt mean everyone will jump ship to Godot, that's just a pipedream of godotfags who think now their engine will get enough users to become good. Most devs will go to UE, would you jump into a ship full of holes you have to patch just because it's free?
They are going to sell off Unity then people will just flock back to it after the new owners "saves it"
Sreencap this post.
That would be the best case scenario.
I doubt it. Mostly because it will take years for this to actually sink unity.
By the point they actually die everyone will have already fucked off to learn other engines and will have no interest in switching back.
I mean yeah if unity pulls a blender it would be a net positive for the entire industry
Imagine being godot right now, all you gotta do just not fuck anything up
I'm not convinced about Godot, I want to make 3D games and I heard its only good for 2d pixelshit
the most successful godot game is 3d.
this surge of new talent will be only positive for godot.
Stick around, learn it, by time you kinda know your way around, there'll be plenty of material to help you build what you want, there'll be a marketplace etc etc.
Best time for it.
Godot barely functions compared to the requirements of games made post 2002. This surge of 'new talent' is going to tank the reputation of the engine when they aren't able to just download assets for character controllers, AI, terrain etc.
by new talent I wasn't including the marketplace kiddies.
There are plenty of capable devs who've stuck with unity for so long because its comfortable, they know their way around the quirks and/or sunk cost fallacy kept them attached to it.
They leave, move to godot, it'll be great.
>character controllers, AI, terrain
literally all available from the asset portion of godots website
https://godotengine.org/asset-library/asset
it even has copilot so chatgpt can code your game for you
if it's so easy it should take me a week, two at most, to transition to, so I'll just stick to verified engines that everyone else is using until then
godot is a scam
godot 4 came out this year which supposedly drastically improves on the 3d end. multiple 3d godot games have came out on the older engines too
I'm not even sure it's good for that either, somehow devs are still using gamemaker instead of godot for 2D games.
I just looked up the first things that showed up when searched on youtube
Unity only slightly edges over Godot in terms of what people seem to push with the tools but this is a low bar end, I left out the top indie games that shit all over these graphically to keep it fair
And despite that, Unreal to me looks like it has more "fidelity" options but people itt said paper2D is outdated shit and makes me skeptical. If I didn't know any better I might have just threw up my hands and actually considered Unreal but I just need to know if the exact thing I build in unity can be 1 to 1 transferred over to unreal before I make that call...
Godot is getting there for 3D. Unity shitting the bed will be a huge boon for it.
Unity shitting the bed doesn't really help Godot's 3D in any way, does it?
It will when all the people seeking alternatives grow godot's userbase and support.
Godot's 3D is pretty good, good enough for like 99% of indie dev use cases. It helps in that people will start evaluating it as an alternative. The Dusk developer has already committed to dropping Unity and started looking into Godot and he keeps jizzing about the 3D features he's uncovering.
I wonder if David is actually going to stick with it for more than a month. His brothers also just released a Unity-based game.
he said any project that's currently in progress (like gloomwood) is too far gone to switch over, but he's done with unity for new development because they've tipped their hand
Any game engine that isn't fucking Godot?
>Any game engine that isn't fucking Godot?
No.
Man, unity really fucked up.
Is there any other company that had an absolute choke hold on a market like this and just pissed it away? IBM maybe?
adobe with flash back in 2012, pulled a similar stunt to unity this last week.
Flash was already dying by then, and was going to be replaced by the HTML canvas.
>Godot
Literally worse just for to unreal