I'm 100% convinced the BDSP devs had more experience with the pokemon metagame than anything else related to game design or programmation
ILCA should rebrand as ILPS : I Love Pokemon Showdown
>Houndoom is the only new fire type before getting the National Dex >Magby too but it's version exclusive
Were they really afraid Numel would be too much?
Yeah man, think about all those poor NPCs with Bronzor and Bronzong who can't do Levitate/Heatproof mixups that require you to carry two different Pokemon for Fire and Ground STAB respectively, how is the Sinnoh experience supposed to be authentic if you have a Pokemon that can completely ignore that?
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
It has a third weakness since Steel doesn't resist Dark anymore that it's abilities can't block like it did in gen 4.
It's so poorly implemented that it unironically doesn't count. And none of the NPCs use the underground mons so it just makes the game easier - which the friendship mechanic already does as well..
>No pokedex entries >No level design >Trainers don't use them >Most of them don't make sense as to why they would be in an underground
It's rom hack tier.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Which might as well be what BDSP is once you strip away its 3D, they almost certainly had to abide by the original game's scripting with imported mechanics from gen 5+.
Funny, I actually look up his BDSP team and his Drifblim doesn't have Flare Boost. It would have made so much more sense since it's a hot air balloon and having an ability that include something about fire.
I'd totally appreciate the E4 being based around strategies instead of "monotype but now they have a move that super effective against their weakness :O"
>That's understandable with iron defense
Hardly. Iron Defense isn't gonna matter on special attackers and it'd benefit way more from having the fire resist berry
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>it'd benefit way more from having the fire resist berry
that's not how BP teams operate, if you're threatened by a strong special fire type move w/o 4 to 6 CM already, you just BP out to something that can take the hit
leftovers is 100%, without a shadow of a doubt the one item you want on this set, especially since it doesn't run roost
>Fan-fiction tier romhack team
Yeah, I just wouldn't play that shit to begin with because it's cancer.
But for an official game, I put trust in the fact that GF has never made setups this faggy outside the Emerald Battle and it's Quick Claw OHKO enemies.
Baton pass is an okay move on its own, the main problem is progress in the series has greatly overpowered it. It's powerful to the point where if used well it's near impossible to stop once started. However it's easily countered if you know it's coming up, and the pokemon/moves you use to counter it will be dead weight when going up against non-BP teams.
nah i want to see the funny shit it does, you don't know good game design if it hit you in the head
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
"So bad it's funny" doesn't make it good just because you're childish enough to laugh at obviously bad design.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
the whole point of smeargle is it's unpredictable and can do anything. giving it the perfect moveset for its role on the team is utilizing the pokemon as intended. it's good game design
don't like battling smeargles? stick to the vanilla games
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
How exactly is bad design?
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
"bad game design" is the new buzzword among boomers when they hate a gameplay element for a subjective reason
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>boomers
It's mostly zoomers who worship youtube essayists, gaming urinalists and redditors
Ignoring how easy it would be to completely implode this team by Taunting, you know you can incorporate gimmicks without supercharging them, right? Your Psychic Terrain user might just be some Psychic gym leader that happens to lead with Indeedee and have a backup setter to discourage you from sucker punching them all to death while making even mediocre Psybeams reasonably dangerous
It wasn't really a Sun-team, though. It was more of a random mish-mash. That said, having an E4 where the trainers all use different meta strategies could be neat.
Raihan did this too, although it doesn't show well in screenshots. Each of his gym trainers specialize in different weather, which was neat when I was playing blind and expected just a Dragon gym.
>trick the player into sending in a fire-type against his now-vulnerable steel-type >rock tomb
135 iq strat ngl, would be impressive if he actually had an AI that wasn't pure RNG + used STAB earthquake instead
Is there any actual source on the DP trainer AI being RNG? It definitely got better in Platinum, but i know in DP it was at least better than the wild pokemons. It avoided moves you're immune to for example.
I don't know the full exacts, but from experience around that gen, it usually boils down to... >use SE Damaging Move when applicable >use a weaker move if the player's in the red to conserve PP/make it easier for the player to heal and strike back, >sporadically use a status move with increased focus on status moves that cause ailments if the enemy isn't already ailed by one >other than that use whatever attacking moves will deal neutral damage if possible
reminder, all Sinnoh trainers except for double battles will pick random moves. If you think Flint's team is simply stupid you would be wrong. Stupid can not even begin to describe this
You're making that up, the AI is actually pretty complex its just explicitly designed to use suboptimal moves occasionally.
For example, while I have no hard proof of this, I've played DP ALOT, and something I've noticed is that, if you're on the verge of being KO'd but could clutch the battle in like 1-2 turns, the AI will start spamming non-damaging moves to give players the opportunity to make that comeback. It happens literally all the time, the AI will battle with actual intelligence for most of the battle but once I'm in red health it will start spamming non damaging moves, allowing me to win the battle. It doesn't happen everytime, usually only when I'm in situations where the battle has been tight up to that point. I'm assuming they did this to make the game a bit more forgiving
This was the only thing DP did better than Platinum, but it's still executed poorly. They should've given him permanent sun and a couple Chlorophyll/Solarbeam users.
Totems do this and they're a much better boss model than gyms ever were gameplay wise, they'll never have as much personality potential as even an average gym leader
At least it's things you will be able to reproduce later on.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Why does that matter? Don't say "it's better game design" because neither are better or worse. Game Freak has given you and the AI extra bonuses in battle in later games, which aren't reproducible.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>game freak does it therefore it's good
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
I'm for permasun and I don't think GF has ever done it.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
You can use infinite weather in gen 4, THOUGH
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Drought was a Groudon exclusive at the time
Candice and Bertha have an infinite snow and sandstorm setter respectively
>t's bad because it gives an unfair advantage to the AI
The AI needs unfair advantages to even be MILDLY challenging lmao
The AI VERY rarely switches out of bad match-ups, almost no enemies have held items, Gen 1-3 you had overpowered boosts from badges etc etc
If anything, you have a ridiculous amount of unfair advantages in an already easy game
The casual Pokemon player is incredibly shit at battling because the games don't challenge them enough. People would rather bitch and moan about "bad game design" and "AI should only get what I can get" instead. Gen 4 Battle Factory AI is almost completely random in the first 14 battles and most people will still lose there.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Casual players dont even touch the battle factories, most probably drop the game before E4
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
The point is the first 2 sets in the Factory are basically rigged for you to win. Your draft mons get better IVs, you get almost all knowledge of your opponents beforehand, and you can swap out your shitmons for something better.
>Boosts one of his moves >Nullifies one of his weaknesses while strengthening another, much rarer weakness.
Sounds like nuanced game design, presenting a challenge with a specific, exploitable downside that rewards good play.
Because Pachirisu, the Pikachu line and Shinx line are the literal only Electric Types in DP Sinnoh,
Just like how the Chimchar and Ponyta lines are the literal only Fire Types in DP Sinnoh,
Just like how the Sneasel and Snover lines are the literal only Ice Types in DP Sinnoh,
Just like how the Wurmple line, Kricketot line, Burmy line, Combee line, Skorupi and Heracross are the only Bug Types in DP Sinnoh,
And all the other types represented by mid-to-late game bosses that have low distribution.
What's wrong? Just because it boosts fire moves, which it's weak to? Who the fuck brings fire to fight the fire E4 member anyways, you'd bring water, which sunny day weakens. Plus it boosts fire fang, and the rest of the team, especially the solar beam to further counter water that Rapidash has. It's fine.
Because Flannery's a mid-game fire expert, so the problem isn't as noticeable. Ice, Ghost and Dragon however, that's where things get rightfully called out.
All pretty shit besides Blaziken too, I'm glad DP taught me you don't need the type itself, just the coverage. Would rather teach something Flamethrower than put up with those pokemon.
Its probably the worst E4. Sinnoh's E4 in DP is admittedly dogshit in DP, but at least it was improved in Platinum. Even in Hoenn's 'definitive' version, the league is awful, but it catches so much less flack than Sinnoh for it.
There was only one dragon type line in gen 1. It was supposed to play more like a traditional JRPG where various pokemon were designed just to be enemies. They didn't expect people to seriously use stuff like Arbok or Persian in their playthroughs.
Sinnoh E4 is super based. I like how Aaron has a Drapion for his ace. Even though it's not a bug type, it evolves from a bug type and it's only weakness is ground, a type that's weak against the rest of his team
It's really cool how Sinnoh made one of the Elite Four members a sun team instead of just being monotype. Every major trainer should be like Flint.
check out BDSP’s Volkner rematch
Sets are the only thing BDSP did right
I'm 100% convinced the BDSP devs had more experience with the pokemon metagame than anything else related to game design or programmation
ILCA should rebrand as ILPS : I Love Pokemon Showdown
>Sets are the only thing BDSP did right
and removing HMs
and not adding dynamax
and not changing designs
>removing HMs
Fuck you
>rest
The bare minimum isn't qualities, it's the bare minimum
seethe 🙂
eternally solving the type distribution with the grand underground is why I will never shit talk BDSP
>Houndoom is the only new fire type before getting the National Dex
>Magby too but it's version exclusive
Were they really afraid Numel would be too much?
Yeah man, think about all those poor NPCs with Bronzor and Bronzong who can't do Levitate/Heatproof mixups that require you to carry two different Pokemon for Fire and Ground STAB respectively, how is the Sinnoh experience supposed to be authentic if you have a Pokemon that can completely ignore that?
It has a third weakness since Steel doesn't resist Dark anymore that it's abilities can't block like it did in gen 4.
It's so poorly implemented that it unironically doesn't count. And none of the NPCs use the underground mons so it just makes the game easier - which the friendship mechanic already does as well..
It's implemented just fine
>No pokedex entries
>No level design
>Trainers don't use them
>Most of them don't make sense as to why they would be in an underground
It's rom hack tier.
Which might as well be what BDSP is once you strip away its 3D, they almost certainly had to abide by the original game's scripting with imported mechanics from gen 5+.
I'm retarded, what's the point of the toxic orb on Jolteon?
Quick Feet
To activate Quick Feet.
Quick Feet, but Flame Orb would have been better
Funny, I actually look up his BDSP team and his Drifblim doesn't have Flare Boost. It would have made so much more sense since it's a hot air balloon and having an ability that include something about fire.
Nice.
They should, but they refuse to do that. Flint was an exception because the dumb fucks forgot to include Fire-types in the Dex.
I'd totally appreciate the E4 being based around strategies instead of "monotype but now they have a move that super effective against their weakness :O"
That's how you get cancer like this
>leftovers scizor
That's understandable with iron defense
What's bullshit is how its only attacking move is bullet punch
>That's understandable with iron defense
Hardly. Iron Defense isn't gonna matter on special attackers and it'd benefit way more from having the fire resist berry
>it'd benefit way more from having the fire resist berry
that's not how BP teams operate, if you're threatened by a strong special fire type move w/o 4 to 6 CM already, you just BP out to something that can take the hit
leftovers is 100%, without a shadow of a doubt the one item you want on this set, especially since it doesn't run roost
I mean, it's part of a BP chain, it's supposed to click BP at +6
>Fan-fiction tier romhack team
Yeah, I just wouldn't play that shit to begin with because it's cancer.
But for an official game, I put trust in the fact that GF has never made setups this faggy outside the Emerald Battle and it's Quick Claw OHKO enemies.
*Battle Frontier
im not a competitive player but like what's the issue with this strategy.
it actually has a chance of beating the player and that's le bad
Baton pass is an okay move on its own, the main problem is progress in the series has greatly overpowered it. It's powerful to the point where if used well it's near impossible to stop once started. However it's easily countered if you know it's coming up, and the pokemon/moves you use to counter it will be dead weight when going up against non-BP teams.
looks mostly fine to me
wow very cool anyway I use Imprison 😉
Literally ever using Smeargle against the player is just bad game design, full stop.
It's only bad if you're doing blind nuzlockes, otherwise I want to see what meme shit it does.
No, it's always bad.
nah i want to see the funny shit it does, you don't know good game design if it hit you in the head
"So bad it's funny" doesn't make it good just because you're childish enough to laugh at obviously bad design.
the whole point of smeargle is it's unpredictable and can do anything. giving it the perfect moveset for its role on the team is utilizing the pokemon as intended. it's good game design
don't like battling smeargles? stick to the vanilla games
How exactly is bad design?
"bad game design" is the new buzzword among boomers when they hate a gameplay element for a subjective reason
>boomers
It's mostly zoomers who worship youtube essayists, gaming urinalists and redditors
But why is it dressed like a tranny
>weedle used magic coat
gg no re
>cancer
This is extremely easy to deal with, especially since it's AI
Ignoring how easy it would be to completely implode this team by Taunting, you know you can incorporate gimmicks without supercharging them, right? Your Psychic Terrain user might just be some Psychic gym leader that happens to lead with Indeedee and have a backup setter to discourage you from sucker punching them all to death while making even mediocre Psybeams reasonably dangerous
It wasn't really a Sun-team, though. It was more of a random mish-mash. That said, having an E4 where the trainers all use different meta strategies could be neat.
>one uses weather
>one uses Terrain
>one uses Trick Room
Raihan did this too, although it doesn't show well in screenshots. Each of his gym trainers specialize in different weather, which was neat when I was playing blind and expected just a Dragon gym.
>boost the rest of his team
>nullify his water weakness
>power up fire fang
sound like a winning strat to me
>trick the player into sending in a fire-type against his now-vulnerable steel-type
>rock tomb
135 iq strat ngl, would be impressive if he actually had an AI that wasn't pure RNG + used STAB earthquake instead
Would be impressive if he chose a faster Pokemon too
>what is predicting the switch
Is there any actual source on the DP trainer AI being RNG? It definitely got better in Platinum, but i know in DP it was at least better than the wild pokemons. It avoided moves you're immune to for example.
I don't know the full exacts, but from experience around that gen, it usually boils down to...
>use SE Damaging Move when applicable
>use a weaker move if the player's in the red to conserve PP/make it easier for the player to heal and strike back,
>sporadically use a status move with increased focus on status moves that cause ailments if the enemy isn't already ailed by one
>other than that use whatever attacking moves will deal neutral damage if possible
That's clearly not random
>male Lopunny
canonically gay
>becomes the first Fire type specialist in the Elite 4 in a region with only 2 fire types
Kinnoh trainers are just built different.
they just took one look at his hair and forced him into it
it worked for Jasmine
why is Sinnoh so good bros?
reminder, all Sinnoh trainers except for double battles will pick random moves. If you think Flint's team is simply stupid you would be wrong. Stupid can not even begin to describe this
I've seen Drifblim boost evasion and baton pass the boosts to Infernape.
You're making that up, the AI is actually pretty complex its just explicitly designed to use suboptimal moves occasionally.
For example, while I have no hard proof of this, I've played DP ALOT, and something I've noticed is that, if you're on the verge of being KO'd but could clutch the battle in like 1-2 turns, the AI will start spamming non-damaging moves to give players the opportunity to make that comeback. It happens literally all the time, the AI will battle with actual intelligence for most of the battle but once I'm in red health it will start spamming non damaging moves, allowing me to win the battle. It doesn't happen everytime, usually only when I'm in situations where the battle has been tight up to that point. I'm assuming they did this to make the game a bit more forgiving
almost correct. Every single 1v1 trainer's AI does not work and will pick random moves... except for Volkner by some freak accident
So that's why he was undefeated for so long, kino, not gonna lie
>actually has a fire move to take advantage of it
jasmine should take notes
This was the only thing DP did better than Platinum, but it's still executed poorly. They should've given him permanent sun and a couple Chlorophyll/Solarbeam users.
>They should've given him permanent sun
Cringe bad rom hack tier artificial difficulty
>it's bad because game freak doesn't do it
It's bad because it gives an unfair advantage to the AI instead of having it just be good because it's better than you at the game
wow, a game that gives the AI an advantage? never heard of that before!
Totems do this and they're a much better boss model than gyms ever were gameplay wise, they'll never have as much personality potential as even an average gym leader
Totems were shit
did you get filtered when the first totem got an auto +1 defense boost?
No, it can make for some random midboss, but it shouldn't have been an important mechanic let alone a replacement for gyms
Alola and gen 7 are ass
Gym leaders since gen 1 already have an "unfair advantage" over you when they use TMs and Pokemon can't access yet. Seethe more.
At least it's things you will be able to reproduce later on.
Why does that matter? Don't say "it's better game design" because neither are better or worse. Game Freak has given you and the AI extra bonuses in battle in later games, which aren't reproducible.
>game freak does it therefore it's good
I'm for permasun and I don't think GF has ever done it.
You can use infinite weather in gen 4, THOUGH
Drought was a Groudon exclusive at the time
Candice and Bertha have an infinite snow and sandstorm setter respectively
>t's bad because it gives an unfair advantage to the AI
The AI needs unfair advantages to even be MILDLY challenging lmao
The AI VERY rarely switches out of bad match-ups, almost no enemies have held items, Gen 1-3 you had overpowered boosts from badges etc etc
If anything, you have a ridiculous amount of unfair advantages in an already easy game
The casual Pokemon player is incredibly shit at battling because the games don't challenge them enough. People would rather bitch and moan about "bad game design" and "AI should only get what I can get" instead. Gen 4 Battle Factory AI is almost completely random in the first 14 battles and most people will still lose there.
Casual players dont even touch the battle factories, most probably drop the game before E4
The point is the first 2 sets in the Factory are basically rigged for you to win. Your draft mons get better IVs, you get almost all knowledge of your opponents beforehand, and you can swap out your shitmons for something better.
Would you rather have the AI randomly use Sunny Day when the sun is up instead?
Not a single game does this, official or not, outside of wild pokemon battles
Early streak Battle Factory AI is purely random and will do dumb shit like this.
just use any other weather move or abuse the sun yourself. you're at the end of the game, so you have options. not that hard to overcome
Steelix and Lopunny having no stab move is the real problem here
Why does he have the Lopunny, specifically?
Bestiality
Flint raped me the first time with the Baton Pass into Infernape.
>Boosts one of his moves
>Nullifies one of his weaknesses while strengthening another, much rarer weakness.
Sounds like nuanced game design, presenting a challenge with a specific, exploitable downside that rewards good play.
>Nullifies one of his weaknesses
Can't into pokemon mechanics?
Sun weakens water damage considerably, Steelix will be able to tank a Surf or two when it's sunny.
Most Pokemon that can use surf are faster though
It doesn't matter, even if all it does is sunny day once and then die, the entire team will be buffed while a major counter will be nerfed.
Assuming it lives long enough to actually put Sunny Day up...
Anon, that's not what nullification is. That's damage reduction.
You know what I meant you petty jerk
It's weakness to water is effectively "nullified" since water moves have damage halved in sun, don't be coy about semantics for no reason.
Because steelix is well known for its speed.
?
How come nobody ever mention Volkner's team? oh wait its fucking garbage that's why
Why the hell does he have a Ambipom? I can sorta understand Octillery because he lives in a seaside town, but the Ambipom makes no sense
Wires
Because Pachirisu, the Pikachu line and Shinx line are the literal only Electric Types in DP Sinnoh,
Just like how the Chimchar and Ponyta lines are the literal only Fire Types in DP Sinnoh,
Just like how the Sneasel and Snover lines are the literal only Ice Types in DP Sinnoh,
Just like how the Wurmple line, Kricketot line, Burmy line, Combee line, Skorupi and Heracross are the only Bug Types in DP Sinnoh,
And all the other types represented by mid-to-late game bosses that have low distribution.
Cobalt coast-land thing i guess.
They are native to the area.
Agility Nasty Plot Baton Pass is pretty good by game freak standards
Too bad its one a mon with shit defense or special defense.
BDSP gave Volkner a kino team
>make a shit team on purpose
>still regularly school everyone who comes to challenge you
>develop depression as a result
Sucks, man.
What's wrong? Just because it boosts fire moves, which it's weak to? Who the fuck brings fire to fight the fire E4 member anyways, you'd bring water, which sunny day weakens. Plus it boosts fire fang, and the rest of the team, especially the solar beam to further counter water that Rapidash has. It's fine.
>have region with 2 (two) fire types, including the starter
>let's add a fire type specialist!
Sinnoh.
Hoenn has 3 Ice-type lines (including Regice) and it has Glacia
At least they had the decency of copy pasting the Glailes.
>WTF I CAN'T SPAM SURF 5 TIMES TO WIN????
why is reddit like this?
I find it funny Hoenn has practically the same problem (the only fire types are Torchic, Slugma, Torkoal, and Numel) yet nobody memes on that
wdym, phoebe and glacia get meme'd on all the time
Because Flannery's a mid-game fire expert, so the problem isn't as noticeable. Ice, Ghost and Dragon however, that's where things get rightfully called out.
platinum has the same amount of fire types as emerald, DP only has 2
All pretty shit besides Blaziken too, I'm glad DP taught me you don't need the type itself, just the coverage. Would rather teach something Flamethrower than put up with those pokemon.
True, couldn't they learn from the peak of the series, Hoenn?? Flint should have had two Monferno, Two Rapidash, and an Infernape.
God hoenn's E4 was such a step down from its gyms
Its probably the worst E4. Sinnoh's E4 in DP is admittedly dogshit in DP, but at least it was improved in Platinum. Even in Hoenn's 'definitive' version, the league is awful, but it catches so much less flack than Sinnoh for it.
To this day Platinum is the only game with a good E4
I just never understood when they give trainers, especially gym leaders or e4, repeated mons
for example, did Lance need 3 fucking dragonites?
lance should've been a kaiju trainer like they made him in the stadium games
There was only one dragon type line in gen 1. It was supposed to play more like a traditional JRPG where various pokemon were designed just to be enemies. They didn't expect people to seriously use stuff like Arbok or Persian in their playthroughs.
Lance is a flying type specialist, he only switches to dragon in the hgss rematch
>half the region is water
>couldn't fit in Cloyster or Dewgong or Lapras anywhere
>for that matter, couldn't fit in Swinub near the hotsprings
Jasmine's had it too i believe
Sinnoh E4 is super based. I like how Aaron has a Drapion for his ace. Even though it's not a bug type, it evolves from a bug type and it's only weakness is ground, a type that's weak against the rest of his team