Super Mario Sunshine

Is it true that NOA used the PAL rom for the 25th anniversary? This guy's account was suspended at some point so don't bother combing for more source.

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  1. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    The whole PAL/NTSC thing wasn't an issue by the Gamecube.
    The PAL version defaulted in a 60Hz mode --i.e. no slowdown.

    The reason they'd pick the European version (because PAL is a misnomer if there is no actual technical difference) is for the various bugfixes and extra languages. The Euro localisation was usually developed and released later.

    The only thing a Euro Gamecube didn't have was progressive scan --a non issue if you're using an emulator and can force it anyway.

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      What does PAL matter post 1999? Everything was 60hz from Dreamcast onwards.

      Ah, thanks. Though it still sucks that the version you played as a kid isn't the version you're buying if you're American. Seems like that'd be a violation of some consumer trade laws.

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        wat
        why does it matter?
        it's the same frickin game

        • 11 months ago
          Anonymous

          From a legal standpoint because it's not explicitly stated that it's the PAL version. At least with modern games you KNOW the game is patched. Not that that makes it any better but it can be argued you know what you're walking into if you support modern slop. But a re-release masquerading as an older game? If there is minutiae whatsoever that's been overlooked by the dozen or so people who care about documenting regional revisions, then that's finessing the customer. It's like an old Osamu Tezuka manga where a plague turns people into dogs but they can't figure out if it's rooted in virology, genes or mythology. The doctors start arguing that in medicine you can never rule out the smallest iota of variable.

          What if I'm an avid Sunshine fanboy who bought the game because I felt like Mario floated for a millisecond longer in the NTSC version, or the text scrolls slightly faster and thus lets me get better speedruns? I now no longer know if it's because of the game's performance under emulation or if it's because the copy solicited to me was not in fact the NTSC version.

          • 11 months ago
            Anonymous

            What a moronic post.

            • 11 months ago
              Anonymous

              t. NOA legal defense team intern

          • 11 months ago
            Anonymous

            >From a legal standpoint because it's not explicitly stated that it's the PAL version.
            It wasn't explicitly stated to be the NTSC version as well.
            >But a re-release masquerading as an older game? If there is minutiae whatsoever that's been overlooked by the dozen or so people who care about documenting regional revisions, then that's finessing the customer.
            I have no idea what you are even talking about. People who document stuff will document anything that's off (which they did).
            >What if I'm an avid Sunshine fanboy who bought the game because I felt like Mario floated for a millisecond longer in the NTSC version, or the text scrolls slightly faster and thus lets me get better speedruns? I now no longer know if it's because of the game's performance under emulation or if it's because the copy solicited to me was not in fact the NTSC version.
            If this were to happen (and be significant enough), it'd become its own category.
            And if it didn't? Well, people can change to playing it on the Switch as well. It's not exclusive to you.

            What was the issue again? Except for your moronation, that is.

          • 11 months ago
            Anonymous

            This is the same kind of anon that will tell you that a CRT display in 2023 is absolutely necessary to get that 1/500th of a second faster response time so they can play Earthbound better.

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        I live in the US, but damn, am I glad that this whole PAL/NTSC nonsense is no longer a thing once HD came around. Honestly, 1080i should not have even been a thing, should just have gone progressive only after 480, 720p looks far better than 1080i. Not that 1080i is much of a thing anymore either though by now.

        >Ah, thanks. Though it still sucks that the version you played as a kid isn't the version you're buying if you're American.

        >"Use the _BUTTON_ to shoot water from my tank"

        I mean, PAL or NTSC it would have been modified anyway for the collection

        >The PAL version defaulted in a 60Hz mode --i.e. no slowdown.
        This is not true, most games you chose 50hz/60hz on starting up the game. If there was no hz selection screen you can assume the game was running at 50hz. Metroid Prime 2 is one of the few exceptions and was clearly marked on the box as being 60hz only

        >Metroid Prime 2 is one of the few exceptions and was clearly marked on the box as being 60hz only

        Wait, what? Wouldn't that have made it unplayable on many older PAL TVs then? I know it was far more common for PAL TVs to have NTSC support than vice-versa but I would assume a lot of them, especially older ones, would only support 50hz.

        From a legal standpoint because it's not explicitly stated that it's the PAL version. At least with modern games you KNOW the game is patched. Not that that makes it any better but it can be argued you know what you're walking into if you support modern slop. But a re-release masquerading as an older game? If there is minutiae whatsoever that's been overlooked by the dozen or so people who care about documenting regional revisions, then that's finessing the customer. It's like an old Osamu Tezuka manga where a plague turns people into dogs but they can't figure out if it's rooted in virology, genes or mythology. The doctors start arguing that in medicine you can never rule out the smallest iota of variable.

        What if I'm an avid Sunshine fanboy who bought the game because I felt like Mario floated for a millisecond longer in the NTSC version, or the text scrolls slightly faster and thus lets me get better speedruns? I now no longer know if it's because of the game's performance under emulation or if it's because the copy solicited to me was not in fact the NTSC version.

        >At least with modern games you KNOW the game is patched. Not that that makes it any better but it can be argued you know what you're walking into if you support modern slop. But a re-release masquerading as an older game? If there is minutiae whatsoever that's been overlooked by the dozen or so people who care about documenting regional revisions, then that's finessing the customer.

        You are a fricking idiot. Games as far back as the second gen of consoles had updated releases and never mentioned anything about it. Patches are not a new thing, the only difference is that back then if a game had a horrible bug you were stuck with it forever, and it would either never get patched, or later get patched on newer versions of the cart/disk with zero indicator whatsoever. Advertising the game version was just simply not a thing and very rare to see until consoles connecting to the internet and having large amounts of internal storage became commonplace.

        • 11 months ago
          Anonymous

          >Wait, what? Wouldn't that have made it unplayable on many older PAL TVs then?
          Yes, that's why it's marked on the box as 60hz only. But by that point it would be very unlikely for someone to be playing on a 50hz only TV

        • 11 months ago
          Anonymous

          >Wait, what? Wouldn't that have made it unplayable on many older PAL TVs then?
          Part of the reason it was highly recommended to use RGB SCART on PAL gamecubes (and dreamcasts) was because many 50hz TVs were perfectly capable of 60Hz even if the manufacturer never intended it. The TV doesn't "run" at 50Hz after all, it synchronises to the signal on the cable and in the analog world there's usually plenty of play in the range it will accept. Chances are even your TV from the 70s would take a 60Hz signal, you just might have to frick with the hold knobs to make it an acceptable size and stability.
          But the color would be fricked. PAL in a 60Hz carrier was definitely out of spec for fixed decoders, but RGB sidestepped the issue.

          • 11 months ago
            Anonymous

            >But the color would be fricked. PAL in a 60Hz carrier was definitely out of spec for fixed decoders
            I am pretty sure the color decoder has nothing whatsoever to do with the vertical deflection. It only cares about lines.

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      >The PAL version defaulted in a 60Hz mode --i.e. no slowdown.
      This is not true, most games you chose 50hz/60hz on starting up the game. If there was no hz selection screen you can assume the game was running at 50hz. Metroid Prime 2 is one of the few exceptions and was clearly marked on the box as being 60hz only

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      No one on this board even realises huge numbers of games where designed and written to be run on pal systems. Its just moron central on that. Not many people realise that 'pal'' versions also were pal-60 aware by the mid 90s

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        > PAL60 by the mid 90s

        You're a few years short though. It only started with the Dreamcast and even then it took years for PS2 games to catch up and a lot of releases even late ones are 50hz only. I think Gamecube games are fine for the most part however.

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        >>No one on this board even realises huge numbers of games where designed and written to be run on pal systems.
        There are like a dozen of these, and in all cases, the superior framerate of the US release trumps the slight resolution bump of PAL. Hell, half of the PAL versions were letterboxed anyway, so you didn't even get to enjoy 576 lines.

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      sunshine is only 60fps on dolphin

  2. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    What does PAL matter post 1999? Everything was 60hz from Dreamcast onwards.

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      PS2 was notoriously bad in PAL60 support in games. More than two thirds of its library was 50hz only.

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        Ps2 isn't pal 60hz it outputs ntsc

        Why do euros and some other countries used 50hz?

        Uk adopted pal because of the better colours, tv producers over here pushed for it, I don't think it has anything to do with the power grid lmao

        • 11 months ago
          Anonymous

          >I don't think it has anything to do with the power grid lmao

          The 50Hz is without a doubt due to the power grid. There are a lot of older analog devices designed for 60hz regions that will run slower if you plugged them into a plug that operates at 50hz even if you convert the voltage, and vice-versa for devices that are designed for 50hz and get plugged into a 60hz outlet. You would need to also convert 50/60hz for them to operate properly. PAL has more differences than jut simply being 50hz vs 60hz, but it was clearly designed to work with the UK power grid also operating at 50hz. PAL was developed after NTSC, it was developed with the 50hz power grid in mind, it wasn't "Hey, we can do better than NTSC! Let's have better color and resolution, even if it means a roughly 16-17% lower refresh rate than NTSC!". It was "OK, we need to make our video standard operate with our 50Hz power grid, we have room to make these other changes while we're working on it"

          Older devices were utterly dependent on the frequency of the AC power coming into them and designed all around it.

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      It's only beginning with 7th gen that the majority of PAL releases supported 60hz. Even Halo had to be PAL optimised, and the PAL programmer even apologised years later for oversights like reeeeaaally long grenade countdowns

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      you are incorrect.

      Everything was mostly 60hz post the first HD consoles, so around 2006-7
      also many PAL WII games run at 50hz (while others run ok at 60hz PAL)

      the more you know.......

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        >also many PAL WII games run at 50hz
        The only one I know of is Madworld, are there others?

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          Mario Party 8 was quite infamous in Europe for being 50hz only

  3. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    What's wrong with the PAL version if it supports 60 hz? What the frick are those morons complaining about? I played Sunshine on the Switch and didn't notice any differences

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      IT'S NOT FREEDOM APPROVED

  4. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    Why do euros and some other countries used 50hz?

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      It matched their electrical grids. Also it's not like anybody was married to 50 or 60 hz in those days, average consumers wouldn't get TVs for years after these standards were established.

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      Ask the makers of the power grid.
      In Europe they chose 230V 50Hz while in the US for the largest part it is 120V 60Hz.
      The frequency of the power lines was what the TVs were tuned to and correspondingly also consoles and games.

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        US is actually 240V, there's just a transformer for each house that splits it in half for two areas of the house. Large appliances are still 240V.
        Don't make me link the technology connections video.

        • 11 months ago
          Anonymous

          Right, so you think transform 50hz to 60hz before it reaches the house?

          • 11 months ago
            Anonymous

            That's a frequency, not a voltage.

            If you call the US a 240V country, then Europe is actually running 400V.

            Do any of your household appliances run on 400V?

            no, it's a -120V and a +120V phase

            Yes, the 120V is split phase. 240V with a center tap. Same thing.

            Alright, you people made me link the technology connections video.

            • 11 months ago
              Anonymous

              >Do any of your household appliances run on 400V?
              Electric stoves in the Soviet Union ran on 380V three-phase power.

        • 11 months ago
          Anonymous

          If you call the US a 240V country, then Europe is actually running 400V.

        • 11 months ago
          Anonymous

          no, it's a -120V and a +120V phase

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        Why do euros and some other countries used 50hz?

        The reason for 50Hz was to reduce wear on the turbines that generated the power. Someone realised that they could run them slower and this would generate less waste heat and therefore wear down the mechanical parts less and at the time the frequency of the grid didn't matter since no one had built anything requiring anything specific. Hz was completely irrelevant to the end users other than maybe more noticeable flicker on lamps.
        TVs were synchronised to the 50Hz power to avoid interference and then the rest is history. Japan has a split 50/60Hz grid and given their importance in the 80s/90s game market it could easily have become 50fps as the standard with USA complaining that games run too fast and aren't designed for their TVs.

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      Third world living standards

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      They have different electrical and broadcasting standards than US and other NTSC regions. People seem to have forgotten how different other parts of the world are and that they have different needs compared to our own, so back then it wasn't wrong or incorrect to abide by those standards.

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      basically they understood that euros think slower and have aversion to fun in general. small countries have tiny genetic pools too. so they the made the games slower for them as an act of mercy

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        am €, can confirm

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      It matched their electrical grids. Also it's not like anybody was married to 50 or 60 hz in those days, average consumers wouldn't get TVs for years after these standards were established.

      Standard established by Schneider Electric in Germany.
      When Germany invaded Europe, it became the European standard (as well as the time zone in France and Spain).

      Nikola Tesla wanted 220v 60hz. Schneider chose 50hz by metric logic.

  5. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    Epitome of fud. have a nice day.

  6. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    You can choose 60hz when you start the game.

  7. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    We already had this thread several times.
    They used the PAL version but it's running in PAL60 mode, meaning it has all the bug fixes of the PAL release and the refresh rate of the NTSC release, along with emulation enhancements like progressive scan (not a feature for PAL Gamecubes running PAL60) and widescreen.
    This is different from Playstation Classic where the PAL games only used PAL50 on top of the Playstation Classic being too underpowered to even manage that without emulation slowdowns.

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      It’s not worth talking to Americans on this subject anon

  8. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    hey pal, PAL is no pal of mine

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      It was superior for DVDs and television

  9. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    the 3D All Stars version plays great and digital triggers unironically make things like the little boats way the frick easier to control

  10. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    Why is there so much spam about mario? the whole franchise barely deserves a thread let alone long continual spam about each entry fricking the catalog. It was never good or original..

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      mario games are fun

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        For the first decade they were unoriginal side scolling platformers. The whole catalog is plastered in zelda and mario spam when they really were not that much loved throught out the 90s and 00s. is the idea to stop people talking about retro games they love by spamming this stale mario and zelda crap ' Did you know zelda had colors' or 'did you know mario wore dungarees' crap?

        • 11 months ago
          Anonymous

          mario is just an important character. he was loved during the 90s and 00s. my parents loved mario and introduced me to the games.

        • 11 months ago
          Anonymous

          >For the first decade they were unoriginal side scolling platformers.

          Other people would call you a zoomer for that one, and you could be that. But I think you're just a shitposting troll. Here's your (You).

        • 11 months ago
          Anonymous

          this is accurate

          >For the first decade they were unoriginal side scolling platformers.

          Other people would call you a zoomer for that one, and you could be that. But I think you're just a shitposting troll. Here's your (You).

          seething nintentoddler.

          • 11 months ago
            Anonymous

            I don't have any allegiance to Nintendo, Sega or anyone else.

            It's just SMB1 set the bar and everyone followed. That's indisputable fact. Calling the early Mario games generic is like calling Citizen Kane generic because everyone copied it's techniques afterwards.

            All the best selling platformers have had Mario's jump arc relative to screen height.

  11. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    this thread is exactly how twitter screencap threads always go

  12. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    I believe it. Nintendo can't do anything right anymore

    Thank God for China

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      0,001 social credit added to your account

  13. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    Remember how at launch Sunshine in the anniversary collection had a bug in it's emulation where the debug cubes in some of the secret levels which are supposed to be invisible were visible? The very same bug that used to happen in Dolphin but was fixed long ago?

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      I think the mini consoles were using roms pulled from websites too. Turn about is fair play i guess. Funny to think about the normies basically buying illegal roms from a first party tho.

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        Wasn't this dis-proven? If you dump a ROM properly it's CRC should match a downloaded copy anyway unless it's been altered in some way. And the IIRC it was revealed that they licensed the iNES header format from one of the original creators of it that was apparently the "incriminating" part. IIRC a completely raw NES ROM dump would not have any headers and be at least two files (CHR and PRG ROMs).

        But since it would both be a hassle to have multiple files per game AND that older games like this stored zero information about themselves that emulators would need to function (such as which mapper if any they used, this is something that was invisible to the NES hardware but very very necessary for an emulated copy to function) Marat Fayzullin who made an early NES emulator called iNES also created a header format that would list all of this necessary information that is not on the ROM chips of the cart. Hence why people call it the iNES header, it became a header format for the file format that basically combines said header and the dumps of the different ROM chips all into one file.

        Since iNES is a standard header format, any decent NES dumper which uses this header format should produce a dump of an NES game that is 100% a match with the same CRC. A tell-tale sign would be if the header contained any information about the dumper used and/or any additional information like a warez/dumper scene name or something. From my understanding, no such information is in either the modern NES romsets nor in the Virtual Console ROMs, so it just makes sense that it would match. People originally speculated this because they assumed Nintendo would develop their own header or have none and use some other manual/proprietary method, but it was revealed that Nintendo had indeed licensed the iNES header from Marat Fayzullin for their VC.

        (Also, I am pretty sure the Gigaleak reconfirmed this since it proved Nintendo still had archival dumps of their stuff from ages ago)

  14. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    I completed the game 100% and didn’t notice any problems. Who cares?

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