>The Zelda formula was old and stale.

>The Zelda formula was old and stale. It was time to retire the "Zelda formula" and never look back. It's for the best and with two of the best selling games in the franchise as proof, it is the right decision moving forward.

I'm not quoting a single person in particular, but this seems to be a reoccurring narrative when talking about Zelda games. Do you agree with this though? Is the Zelda formula (the OoT formula specifically) old and tired?

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  1. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Of course I agree. Every game after Link to the Past was the same thing but worse and worse and worse and worse. These are the two best open world games this past decade. It revolutionized the medium, and introduced casuals to the potential of immersive simulation.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Ya sure it wasn't just to cash in on the Morrowind gays that will rebuy the same game on every platform until the end of time?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >love Morrowind
        >no game made after is ever like it
        name a more cursed fan

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Every game after LTTP
      But that wasn't even the peak.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Just wanted to note that the formula being discussed originated at LttP, even thought OoT is the more well revered one.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Guess that's why they delayed after the release of Elden Ring, huh?

  2. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Nah, oot still holds strong but it doesn't leave room for dlc so it was time to change.

  3. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I'm fricking tired of talking about Zelda at all anymore.

  4. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Is the Zelda formula (the OoT formula specifically) old and tired?
    It is, and any zeldagay that cries about are a hypocrite because they didn't even buy the games they praise so much.

  5. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    There was nothing wrong with the old formula and there's nothing wrong with the new formula.

    The problem is incompetent upper management, lack of quality content and Nintendo's developers restricting themselves to outdated and juvenile game design philosophies, which inevitably resulted in both formula's delivering bad games.
    ToTK is just another repeat SS debacle all over again, and proof that Nintendo or their Zelda team didn't learn much of anything.

  6. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The BotW formula was good as a one-off thing and I'm glad it happened, but the series should continue to experiment. Not go back to the OoT formula, not continue the BotW formula, no. Actually experiment; shake things up.

  7. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    if the formula was growing stale, i blame it more on shitty writing and presentation than i do on the gameplay. every game after MM had a pretty shitty story, world and atmosphere. I mean, some of it was ok, but none of it was just all that GREAT. A "normal" style Zelda, in the vein of OoT, but with an awesome story and enchanting world, I think would be loved by a lot of people. But Nintendo has just never been very good in the story department so a change in gameplay will be seen as what is necessary.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >MM had a pretty shitty story, world and atmosphere.

      WW had a great story, world and atmosphere. Its shortcomings were plenty but just not those.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        WW is actually what people mistakeningly criticize BotW for. Those spaced out, one note islands, all that distance between shit, sailing while nothing is happening.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          The difference is that sailing in WW, even today, is unbeaten in feeling amazing and grand. The music, the camera angle, the times when weather changes it rains on you, etc. I would honestly set sail in WW and try to sail from one side of the map to the other (hopefully without hitting a giant squid) just because I liked sailing that much.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >sailing in WW feels amazing and grand
            put down the crackpipe, WW fans are fricking delusional

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Reminder that Jeff Gerstmann, the man who popularized the notion of the Zelda formula being boring, had MM in mind.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >every game after MM had a pretty shitty story, world and atmosphere.
      Eh, I think WW had fantastic atmosphere and a very creative story, there's still nothing like it out there in the gaming sphere today. TP had some solid atmosphere at times as well and started off strong with its narrative, but that eventually fell apart and relied too much on OoT-pandering to carry it.

      But yes, SS and and the open-air games have some pretty bad atmosphere.
      IMO the older pre-GC games had an excellent balance of decent gameplay and atmosphere, but something seriously went wrong, starting with WW.
      >WW had excellent presentation but completely feel apart in its gameplay thanks to its rush development, poor dungeons, empty overworld and piss-easy difficulty
      >TP had a relatively solid presentation with some solid gameplay elements that were largely ruined by excessive padding, weird story twists, poor music, some items seeing little use outside of their own dungeons, some bad side quests and so on
      >SS had extremely solid dungeons and decent combat (if gimmicky) but was ruined by its linearity, non-existant open world terrible presentation (atrocious art style & infantile story that retconned a lot of pre-existing lore)
      >BoTW delivered a fresh new gameplay experience and a relatively solid (if not simple) presentation, but it still needed a lot of work. Regardless, a lot of people excused Nintendo for this, since it was the first big, modern, AAA open-world title
      >Then ToTK came along and dropped the ball on both, big time.

  8. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    BotW was a fun spinoff but it didn't need a sequel

  9. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    the only thing they should keep is the open world and doing things in any order, and puzzles about physics

    nobody will miss the combat or the weapons that break, Zelda has become a game good despite its combat, like a Bethesda game

  10. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I was bored of the BOTW formula halfway through it. TotK was also quite boring. Franchise is dead to me. I'll strictly be pirating it from now on and hope they ditch open world shrine garbage eventually.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >hope they ditch open world shrine garbage eventually
      Aonuma ran the old Zelda formula into the ground and now he's gonna die or retire doing the exact same thing to open world Zelda

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I think that will be the case. That formula will be probably be used for at least 2 more games. They'll just swap the gimmick powers out and replace the cookie cutter story.

  11. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    nah. but also they should be innovating too. BOTW had some good ideas, but was executed poorly in almost every single aspect.

  12. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The "Zelda formula" is a fabrication. Each game is a little different than the last.

    The only thing that was the same was 3 dungeons > master words > more dungeons > ganon
    But everything else kept changing. The reason the games felt like they were on a decline, was for the steady decline in freedom for the player to explore the map. The every increasing handholding, and stricter mechanical applications that didn't allow for experimentation.

    BOTW fixed a lot of those problems. Even if it isn't a perfect game, it was still truly a breath of fresh air.

  13. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    People are dumb and misconstrue them mangling and doubling down on all the worst parts of the formula for a decade with the formula itself being the problem. Even if that were true they've replaced a formula that got stale over 20 years with one that gets stale before you even complete the game.

  14. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The "OOT formula" AKA the ALTTP formula is only followed by 2 fricking games: those two
    You're moronic and don't know what you're talking about, end of thread.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Zelda formula Zelda games:
      Lttp
      LA
      OOT
      MM
      OOS
      OOA
      WW
      MC
      TP
      (Kind of) PH
      (Kind of) ST
      SS
      ALBW
      No, small variations do not constitute a different formula

  15. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Zelda 1 to Alltp
    Gods that like the true zelda
    >OoT to SS
    Fake fans
    >Botw to Totk
    Sperms
    Which one are you?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      capcom zelda fans are the only real zelda fans

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        They used to be top-tier.
        Problem is that nu-Nintendo no longer challenges itself. They prefer to play it cheap & safe while pandering to the lowest common denominator at all times.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I am a fake sperm fan. I cannot stop jerking Majora's Mask.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I'm the God of fake sperm because I like games from all those eras

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I am apparently none of the above because I'm a Link's Awakening fan

  16. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Weapon durability
    Remove this entirely and I'll be happy.

  17. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Nintendo games simply aren't as good as people want you to think they are

  18. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The Zelda formula didn't get stale, it got mismanaged and summarily beaten to death by a massive fricking moron who didn't know how to use it.

  19. 3 weeks ago
    Nora Kisaragi

    Then change the fate.

    Get the Triforce in Ocarina and become a legend.

    There's also teased a Zelda campaign in Ocarina, seen here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gY4I31YpVqk

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      bot post?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Nora Kisaragi

        >bot post?

        Nope. I've been loyally posting that we have to cross a parallel dimension in Ocarina to get the Triforce. I've posted this in many zelda threads. I also literally linked a commercial for Ocarina which I doubt you actually watched before posting that.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Will thoust get the girl or play like one?
      love 90s ads.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I remember hearing this theme in a trailer for TP, I didn't know they reused it from this ad.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        anon...

        ?si=8JrNqorGXcjzZAVs&t=191

  20. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The problem was too much linearity and handholding
    The open world fixed that, but you didn't need to go open world to fix that...
    As far as I know, no 3D OoT-like zelda is as open as ALttP. It's not hard to fix the issues SS, TP and WW had, without changing completely the series

  21. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    It kept getting worse and worse so yeah.

  22. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Having an arsenal of some sort, and that arsenal expanding to expand your ability to interact with the world, is just how Zelda does progression. BotW/TotK didn't need to reject THIS to reject total linearity and handholding a la SS.

  23. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I don't know about "the OOT formula" but the devs clearly got far too comfortable making these fricking games, because by SS they'd devolved into self-parody. The issue was perhaps not the formula but their horrible ideas for what time-wasting bullshit to add to it, while keeping things like movement mechanics almost unchanged out of sheer ritual. Playing the notes but not the song.
    BOTW stuck out because it actually demonstrated interest in the player's relationship to the game-world again, rather than taking it for granted and going through the motions.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >The issue was perhaps not the formula but their horrible ideas for what time-wasting bullshit to add to it, while keeping things like movement mechanics almost unchanged out of sheer ritual. Playing the notes but not the song.

      And this continues to be a problem, even in BoTW and ToTK. You can just tell they're using the same rig on Link that they've used since TP. Link from BoTW/ToTK has is the same size/height as Link from SS or Link from TP, with the same generalized motions and whatnot.

  24. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    the issue wasn't the formula, it was the increase of restrictions, cutscenes, linear story events, making puzzles and combat easier, adding dumb gimmicks.
    Every 3d zelda after oot and mm were basically on-rails until botw

  25. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Take BotW of the Wild, add 4-7 traditional dungeons. Boom, GOTYAY. That's what I wish TotK of the Kingdom was.
    The open-world format isn't inherently bad, it's just not a replacement for content.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      here come the
      >but it IS content!!!
      morons to tell you that every korok is unique and every shrine is a masterwork of puzzle design because they can go around the problem to some extent

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Koroks were like 900 hidden grottos with a few various implementations. When you like the game already, they're more fun than they are not.

  26. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    There's no such thing as "the OoT formula" when everything definable about it comes from the older games.

  27. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    No.
    Formulas don't get "stale". They are just done well or poorly. The fault lies with Aonuma for making Zelda too handholdy and too easy. He then had the gall to completely throw away the formula, replace it with open world slop, and then claim no one actually likes the classic formula. Also he killed off 2D Zelda. Basically frick Aonuma.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >The fault lies with Aonuma for making Zelda too handholdy and too easy.

      To be fair, this issue isn't solely associated with Zelda, multiple Nintendo IPs have seen steep drops in difficulty and general learning curves in recent years.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Super Mario 64 and Sunshine are roughly comparable in difficulty (Sunshine might even be harder in some parts), Wind Waker was a massive drop.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      They sure as shit get stale. Persona is fricking stale right now.

  28. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Do you agree with this though?
    No. The ideal Zelda game would be ALTTP x BOTW: A big free-form open world but with a semi-linear dungeon progression with items.
    The idea that a BOTW-style open world is incompatible with having Zelda dungeons is stupid

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Poor dungeons aren't the only major issue going for the BoTW formula though.
      Terrible stories/narratives hidden behind optional cutscenes, pointless fetch-quest padding, poor rewards and excessive mat-gathering, forgettable music, slow & easy combat and excessive menu-scrolling are also major issues.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Poor dungeons aren't the only major issue going for the BoTW formula though.
        Yeah I agree, but it is the most egregious. Also I don't think neoNintendo is capable of fixing more than 1 problem at a time.

        For BOTW, I thought that it was due to time crunch. They spent a ton of time on the open world and were probably throwing together all the rest at the very end. Then TOTK came along, re-using the same map 1:1, and it didn't improve on any of BOTW's shortcomings. It was even a carbon copy of the story (4 regions all have a problem) and telling the actual story through optional flashback cutscenes scattered throughout the open world.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          A few things to note
          >TOTK reused the map 1:1
          According to that talk at GDC, they actually had to do work equivalent to making the world again from scratch to make the new technologies and ideas work. Supposedly. I don't buy it at all, because if they did, what possessed them to keep the world so much the same?
          >didn't improve on any of BOTW's shortcomings
          Everything you could already invalidate in BOTW is easier and quicker to invalidate in TOTK, so you spend less time on foregone conclusions like "will I be able to reach that high place?"
          >It was even a carbon copy of the story (4 regions all have a problem)
          Consequence/requirement of the absolute open design. Anything that has to happen in sequence might be incompatible with the sequence in which the player wishes to play. This is why everything has to be self-contained, even the events of the linear plot.
          Yes, this IS an absurd compromise to make on basic game design. I'm not endorsing it. I just know the logic.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I don't know why anyone expected totk to fundamentally change from botw. The zelda team tends to have a habit of bending to fan demand, like after celda whining we got twilight princess, and after people whined about skyward sword being too linear we got albw and botw, but the reverse is also true, when a game like botw is released to endless praise from both critics and fans of course their reaction isn't to take a critical look at botw, because everyone loved and jacked off botw, so instead they doubled down.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >I don't know why anyone expected totk to fundamentally change from botw
            I thought that my ask was pretty reasonable:
            >4[+] big classic Zelda style dungeons with small keys
            We got Divine Beasts v1.5 which technically was an improvement [not including the water """temple"""] but the equivalent of going from a D to a C-.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >I thought that my ask was pretty reasonable:
              Nintendo isn't listening to you, that's my point, the masses decided that botw was the 10/10 best game of all time, which is why totk is designed as it is, because of the way botw was praised.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Yeah, point taken. The "11/10 best game evar" shit is pretty crazy considering how weak BOTW is outside of the open world part.
                When TOTK was announced/in development I expected some minor evolution of BOTW, I wasn't expected all 6 years of dev time to go into GMOD building and another 150 shrines

                It was a step in the right direction, but it was just a single step in a 4 mile walk to what would be the arbiters grounds

                It's infuriating because no other company makes games with "Zelda dungeons". In Elden Ring when Stormveil Castle had a small key in a chest I got excited because I thought they were going to implement 'key hunt' dungeons in the game but no dice.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                it begins to make more sense when you realize that TOTK was conceptualized as DLC for BOTW. From the start, its scale has been constrained by its point of origin.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              It was a step in the right direction, but it was just a single step in a 4 mile walk to what would be the arbiters grounds

  29. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The formula itself is not stale (Zelda ROM hacks abound) but the developers clearly did not want to work on such games anymore, struggled to find inspiration with them, and EVERY game after Ocarina of Time being rushed to almighty frick and back all the way up to Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom was not helping matters. Wind Waker and Twilight Princess both have legendarily rushed development, and this is with Twilight Princess being made out of Wind Waker's cutting room floor

    Zelda Indigo is looking to be the best fricking OoT derivative Zelda game ever released btw

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >be handed solid fricking gold
      >hate it from the moment you touch it, complain that it's "outdated", use it as poorly as you can, then throw it out when people still don't like your work as much as the old stuff
      sometimes it feels like nintendo's developers don't even like video games in the first place

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        More like they are completely out of touch with their old fanbase. But they hooked the Skyrim crowd with BOTW/TOTK so it doesn't matter.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I don't think they were ever IN touch with their old fanbase since Majora's Mask began development almost instantly after Ocarina of Time (files on Goron Link in the development repo for Nintendo back in the 90s from the gigaleak confirm this) and Wind Waker was trying something new after OoT. The SpaceWorld demo never promised anything so they were insanely confused when everybody got mad that Wind Waker wasn't SpaceWorld of Time 2.

  30. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Twilight princess was my favorite
    It looked great, felt great, it had some annoying bits like all the games do, but thats just how it is

  31. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Shut up b***h, they abandoned what worked before, why wouldn't they do it again, OoT wasn't even that good.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous
  32. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Daily reminder. If you were ones of those obnoxious morons who complanied about the botw formula before 2017, you have no rights to complain about the botw formula now. You got what you deserved gays

  33. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Nah, the OoT formula is proven to be good. Dungeons > Open World.

  34. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Let Zelda be BOTW from now on.

    Bring back Star Fox Adventures for the old sytle of gameplay.

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