There will never be another ludokino like Signalis...

I mean with going with nothing. I know the game perfectly, I know when I will need the flashlght and when not, and I don't use any weapons for like 80% of the game. Even going with 6 empty slots, any savepoint to savepoint traversal you do (im at sp, i have a key, i go open the door, grab the stuf, get the new key, go to sp before i go to next door) gets you mroe than 6 items. So even if going completely empty you still ahve to backtrack.

And the game is so easy you might as well or even just don't bother. outside of bosses there are like, what, 5-6 annoying enemies that you might kill for the entire game?

Imo the enemies have to be reworked. More mechanics, more menaciing. It's so easy to run away. Also you auto regenerate health, so you can tank infinity grabs if you space them out, so you don;t even need to heal.

Imo the game works, it's just piss easy. A rebalance of the enemies, resources, combat mechanics, and how they interract would make the game into a killer.
Now the game lacks those "god damn it I hate that next part because of those XX fricking enemies" moment. Everything is very easy and very predictable gameplay wise. There is no strategy for the different enemies (except those that you kill with the radio).

I would argue that they should have made enemies follow you from room to room while keeping the current balance. Maybe reduce enemy count, in nowhere for example, the room with Mynah and a bunch of enemies is bullshit. Or at least make some enemy type that can follow you from room to room and traverses the floor while in idle state.

I just flare gun's everyone in that room and ignored the Myna.

youre pretend laughing because you have no argument
but hey, youre just like your favourite game: all pretend and nothing of substance

so fricking boring
im not going to interpret your argument for you lynch, you actually have to write it yourself coward

That's one of the things I'm trying to make sense of.
There's two important notes about Elster's Gestalt.
One is the one you mention - about the Penrose program recovered one.
But there is one more note that says Elster units are based on a Vinetan soldier.
It's very difficult to fit both into the timeline of the games and make any sense of it.
One one hand the "loops" can be accounted for by this penrose recovered unit, on the other the years it would take for vinetan war to happen - elster unit based on soldier - elster unit going on penrose and crashing - getting recovered and memories being used for even newer elsters - we play such unit makes no sense.

I don;t have the file at hand, but it is stated that you can't get back after you get slinshotted, don't ask be how they recovered a penrose elster.

Game is either sloppily written or purposefully contradicting itself.

What I said in my post is not a theory.
The game gives you two contradictory pieces of evidence, multiple times.
The game says Ariane and Elster can't go back to their original solar system.
It also says there is a penrose recovered Elster.
It says elster is based on a vinetan solider, and it also says elsters are based on a recovered penrose model because the original memories one got blown up.

That's not my opinion or a theory - those are in-game texts.

>Never says that.
Penrose-Type Vessel Field Operation Manual
Penrose Briefing: Phase II
Penrose Briefing: Phase III
Go in-game and read em. Phase III clearly says - get comfortable dying - since there's nothing else you can do. In the normal course of a mission, you don't have the fuel to go back to your home system. Also, in the manual it says Penrose shipts get catapulted to the edge of the solar system, and then Ariane and Elster go on to the Oort cloud. Ff you need a mass driver to get to there, you would need one to get back.

>Never says that. It says that current Elsters are based on Elster from decommissioned Penrose program.
Replika Overview: LSTR
"Since the original neural pattern for this unit was lost with the destruction of the central Neural Archives on Vineta, new LSTR units have been produced based on a decommissioned unit from the Penrose Program."
>Nothing suggest that it was the same Elster that was with Ariane.
Never said it did. But you still have to make sense of the timeline of events. You have a Vinetan solder - ELSR unit based on it - you lose Vinetan solder neural patter - new ELSR units are made based on this Penrose decommisioned unit patter. It's not easy to fit all of this time that must have happened in the narrative of the game. Also what does decommissioned mean exactly?

The red gate is a symbolic threshold signaling narrative shifts to the player. Is not an object that does anything in-universe.

Why would they have the capability of changing the Penrose destination? That would ruin the whole idea!

The idea is that you catapult them in different directions, if they can independently move then there is no point, especially as many would turn back once they realize the situation. Its much more reasonable to expect an autopilot system.

So somehow theyre in this special zone whereas the catapulting lets them explore areas previously unreachable but also not too far so that you can come back, completely contradicting the first point?
Uh huh...

Not enough supplies, but if you read the notes, and take into account that these missions are essentially suicite missions for undesirables... it's easy to put 2 and 2 together.
Mass Driver. Head filled with propaganda. You figure things are shitty and oh - you understand you can't go back.
You aren't supposed to get back from a Penrose mission, by design.

Replay the beginning of the game.
The game will practically slap you in the face with a "you are WRONG" lmao.
Signalis doesn't get any more explicit that that.

Explain to me why does the beginning repeat with slight alterations then?
Why is the first chapter called synchronicity, in giant letters shortly after you "go through" the gate?
I'm waiting with bated breath for your moronic take. I want to hear it and laugh.

>>>The game is set in reality, not a dream, but reality is being warped to be nonsensical and dreamlike.
Warped by whom? The reality where? The reality in the star system they are from? The reality in the penrose 3000 cycles away from that solar system?

Sao + Elster (protag) transform in to Ariane Yeong and Elster 512 over the course of the game due to ???
Why assume this when you yourself admit you have no evidence... rather than take the game's word on what is happening (synchronicity)? I'm genuinly asking, in your mind why doesn't synchronicity manage to convincingly explain the events of the game for you? Seems the devs put it into the game to do just that to me.

>>The sickness is originated and is being spread by Falke after somehow coming in to contact with Ariane/Elster's memories
We have no real evidence for the last part. We do have evidence that Falke went down the mine, and came back mindfricked. Actually the piece of evidence people use for the Falke-Ariane connection occurs after that mine visit chronologically.

>As to where? If the whole thing is not a dream within a dream then it must be set on the real mining facility on Lang.
You are so close my friend.
If Falke is corrupting Sierpisnky... And it's not a dream within a dream scenario... How do you see Elster and Ariane fitting into this? How are we experiencing all these events, considering we are 3k cycles away from Sierpisnky, and probably in a completely different time period?
You are so close.

>The fact you start out looking for Alina Sao but suddenly "remember" you're actually looking for Yeong seems like a hint.
You have to be careful.
You cant equate what a Gestalt says and goes through with what a Replika says and goes through.
A Replika goes through synchronicity.
BTW remind me which readable is that you mention Alina saying all that? I'm pretty sure what you are referring to is written in... "Ariane's Diary". So you might be confused (or I might be misremembering).
And no Alina is not Ariane. But the paralels the game draws between them does mean something.

>She starting having visions of the white haired girl and by the end of the game she believes she is Elster 512. We know she's patient zero and we know she gains memories about penrose 512 but outside her few lines of dialog and diary we don't know how or why.
Don;t remember anything of the sort. Yes, she has visions of a white hared girl - is not conclusive of anything. If Ariane is connected to the royal family/Great Revolutionary and her daughter, it might mean white hair runs in that family, and Falke having visions of a white haired woman to be asynchronicity. Again, keep in mind that the game really wants you to consider wheter Falke is actually based on Ariane's neural pattern.

You are close my friend, you just have to dig a little bit deeper. You actually can explain the things you say you have no idea.

>which readable is that you mention Alina saying all that?
The notes in the mine I believe.
>Don;t remember anything of the sort.
Literally the final boss fight she spells it all out.
>keep in mind that the game really wants you to consider wheter Falke is actually based on Ariane's neural pattern.
What? No it doesn't, and even if it did, she would have to based on her pre-penrose.
What do you even mean synchronicity. They remember their "old lives" when their persona degrades? The sickness turns in them in to cyborg zombies. Spell it all out for me if you think you've got it figured out.

So somehow theyre in this special zone whereas the catapulting lets them explore areas previously unreachable but also not too far so that you can come back, completely contradicting the first point?
Uh huh...

They're not unreachable, if they were how would they get there via the catapult? Duh. The catapult is part of their "cheap" exploration plan, ships that find viable worlds send word back and presumably they then send a colony ship that can actually sustain itself. Those that fail? Death.
They literally say they want to find new resources to send back, so you can get back alive, just not in a penrose. Why would they just use it to prank undesirables when they could just execute them?

The Empire is the one that started the replikas.

Also the commies rebelled. If it was all fine and dandy - no one would have done that.

>If it was all fine and dandy - no one would have done that.

History says the opposite.

>Lilith Itou is around the same age as Ariane's aunt (who is around her mother's age).
No she isn't.
Rebecca Liang was in Lilith's squad and she is 6 years older than Itou sisters and 10 years older than Ariane. Lilith would be of similar age.
>I think in one of the e-mails from the kolibri to Lilith Itou, she refers to Isa and her sisters as "my daughters".
There is no such email.

Their father is never mentioned in the game, ever. He doesn't write the email. lilith does.

Emails never specify Lilith, the sender is just "Itou bookstore"

>Pretty sure in the e-mails on Rotfront (between the Kolibris trying to get into the store and Lilith) its established Lilith Itou is Isa and Erika's mother.
Nope, you are misremembering or making things up, only their father is ever brought up in Rotfront.
>The game purposefully gives you a whole list of names of the people in Alina Seo's unit.
So what? The game also gives you a whole list of people in the medical records who don't matter one bit, some of them being discarded designs from characters that were cut during development.
>and Anna Huang is most likely the person next to Alina Seo in the photo.
Why her and not literally any other random random name?

Here's the email.
Again, only 3 named Itou characters. Father never mentioned, let alone established to be on Rotfront.
This Itou can only be Lilith.
Lilith is Isa and Erika's mother.

They are twins.

You don't seem to know how storytelling works. Stuff isn't just brought up unless it's some postmodernistic bullshit where it's done on purpose, so everything has some significance. While Signalis is fairly confusing, it relies on symbols and parallel images. I can't think of anything that appears in the game just so.
1) Lilith is listed right next to Alina in the inscription on the photo.
2) This photo is in Ariane's possession. While it's possible that someone else brought the film with the photos to her (say Rebecca) for printing, she is the closest with the twins. Ariane sent this photo to her mother as well, and it would be pretty weird to share someone's personal photo with others without permission.
3) Elster remembers Isa and pre-war Vineta. Her Gestalt is a soldier of Vinetan ORIGIN, which coincides with the birthworld of the twins. When Isa disintegrates, it's Elster who asks her for forgiveness. Also, that brown-haired girl in her memories might be Isa herself.

You are pulling shit out of your ass, anon. There is no evidence that supports that Lilith is twins' mother other than same family name. The rest is inconclusive.

The only correct thing in your post is that there are the names of the whole squad written on the first photo, with Lilith and Alina in it.

And what does this screenshot prove from your previous post, save for the fact the email was sent by one of the twins' parents? I don't deny the possibility that Lilith is Elster's gestalt and the Itou sisters' mother.

I honestly can't see how any of this contradicts the possibility of Lilith being Elster's gestalt. It's the neural pattern of a gestalt that's used in replikas' construction, not necessarily their appearance.
The fact that Ariane mentions only the Itou twins but not their mother simply implies that she either didn't talk to her that much, or didn't think it would be necessary to list everyone with the Vinetan accent she knew. Or her name is left out on purpose by the devs.

Whatever its at the bottom - that's what mindbroke Falke, which in turn mindbroke Sierpiensky and everyone on it.

Think about it from the dev's perspective.
They go out of their way to establish 3 named Itou characters.
All are women. No male Itou is ever established. Nothing ever mentioned of Isa and Erik's father, let alone that he is on Rotfront.
The devs go out of their way to focus attention on these characters by making a whole puzzle that prevents you from finishing the game if you can;t figure it out.
What logic does it make for this ITOU to be some characters that the games have done literally nothing to even vaguely sketch him into the story, rather than to assume it's the one they have spend a lot of effort establishing (vineta, related to alina, same unit, friend of Ariane's aunt, she is the spy on Rotfront etc).
It makes zero sense to think it can be an unnamed Itou character.
You have textual evidence for it being Lilith, while you have nothing for it being someone else.
Why pick nothing over actual unambiguous evidence?

It's funny how you accuse others of making stuff up then you pull this spy shit out of your ass.
Why would an imperial spy attract attention to themselves by selling illegal books in public
Why would she abandon her daughters
Now THAT makes zero fricking sense

The only person the spy might be remotely connected to is Adler's gestalt since they are the only 2 people to suspect Ariane of bioresonance

>Either way, I don't know why she abandoned her daughters (rather than take them with her), but she did it.
Then who organized their altar in their bookstore? According to you no other family members can exist

>It makes zero sense to think it can be an unnamed Itou character.
>You have textual evidence for it being Lilith, while you have nothing for it being someone else.
>Why pick nothing over actual unambiguous evidence?
Because it happens in every other work of fiction, books, films, games you name it.
Of the top of my head, System Shock, Deus Ex, Elder Scrolls, Witcher name drop a ton of characters that little to no significance to the story.

>>You completely lost it, anon. I suggest you replay the game, because you are mixing and making things up.
You don't understand the timeline of events of the game, and may have even missed some readable.

Elaborate with evidence then.

You are making shit up, homosexual.
At least show screenshots that support made up shit you are posting.
Alina-in-cryopod gays were much more intelligent and interesting conversationalists than you.

>No dude the game never hints at cycles or anything, also all the survivors just happened to miss all the previous elsters okay also Adler is quackin crazy and you can't trust anything he says or writes and the autistic corrupted storches are returning keycards to their original locations just to frick with you
booooring

moron

>Most people see crazy silent hill shit, think " you can;t explain that,
I can though, in fact it's one of the easiest things to explain since Adler pretty much spells it out for you.

I wonder how different the game would be, if Adler figured the plot out a little faster and the Kolibri read it out of his mind? Or if he had confided in others rather than keeping quiet out of fear being decommissioned?

What I said in my post is not a theory.
The game gives you two contradictory pieces of evidence, multiple times.
The game says Ariane and Elster can't go back to their original solar system.
It also says there is a penrose recovered Elster.
It says elster is based on a vinetan solider, and it also says elsters are based on a recovered penrose model because the original memories one got blown up.

That's not my opinion or a theory - those are in-game texts.

>The game says Ariane and Elster can't go back to their original solar system.
Where?

Adler doesn't figure out anything.
That's the whole point of the character. He is delusional and doesn't understand what is happening to him.
WE manage to start understanding what is happening by making the observation that he doesn't know shit.

Actually I'm saying the exact opposite.
It's not a dream. We can go very far into giving concrete explanations to most of the game with textual evidence.

>Dream theory allows you to ignore the entire game, nothing Adler says is real allows you to ignore the character that has the most to say, they are the same in spirit.
Well considering people use Adler's fave value word to push the dream/loop angle, no they are not the same thing. With one people explain the game with fanfiction and fabrication, and the other forces the player to come up with textual evidence for any assertion they make.
You ground in fact Adler's dialogue etc. This knocks the support out on the thing you have used to explain everything else about the game.
Now what do you do?
This is also why that puzzle with his box and reading his notes is a bump up in difficulty.
It's actually very important for understanding the game.

You can easily explain the game with just one thing:

Dreaming

That is the key

Dreaming

You are taking Bioresonance too much at face value. You should try to dive deeper.

But bioresonance is far more surface level than all that, considering the game explicitly tells you about it, what it can do and that Ariane can use it. Pretty intelectually lazy if you ask me.

Literally the entire spy plotline exists to establish Ariane as bioresonant. Thank you for proving my point.

The kolibri are based on a bioresonant pajeet. Being a psychic doesn't make you a royal.

Sure.

But then why the visual resemblance between Falke and Ariane?
Why the imperial/spy connection?

Ariane is not a random. I mean I shouldn;t even be telling you this - she is a main character. Of course she has more going on beyond the surface.

I mean her aunt is an imperial spy.

Ariane's strong bioresonance is obviously paralleled to Falke being based on the Great Revolutionary and her daughter to make you think they might be related. They might not be, but they are definitely linked.

Yeah, because Ariane needs to be a very powerful bioresonant for her dream to be so potent. You just keep proving me right, mane

We don't know what's actually bending reality. It could be the red eye for all we know and the red eye may not even be real.

Did you get the Yuri ending?

Isn't this one literally fricking impossible without a guide or actual, real world amateur radio broadcast understanding?

Yes I do. And I know it because the game tells us who does it straight up, black on white text.

It's not a single readable.
But the game straight up tells us Falke is the strongest Replika in terms of bioresonance.
Adler's notes I believe tell us she went down the mine, came back up insane, corrupting everything and everyone.
It's not like the game hides it.

On the other hand, when it comes to ariane the games goes into convoluted subplots to establish 2 (two) things.
She is also a strong bioresonant.
She can peep into other people lives when sleeping.

That's the only thing we know for sure.

The only other might* thing is she sgot corrupted by the radio signals.

Never, not one word, not one piece of dialogue, not one cutscenes, shows, implies or otherwise establishes Ariane changing reality or creating timespace loops across the galaxy.

I'm not talking about dreamer anything.
I'm talking about Ariane reshaping reality.
She doesn't do that.
Let alone create loops.

Not.
One.
Single.
Piece.
Of.
In-game.
Evidence.
Supports.
This.

Yet there are dozens upon dozens that contradict it.

>Literally everything, EVERYTHING in the game revolves around Ariane and even divergent "plotlines" like the empire, the great revolutionary, the spies, etc only exist to establish her as a cosmic threat tier bioresonant.
Absolute delusional moron.
You don;t have a single piece of in-game evidence to back that up.
Not one.
It doesn't exist.

Let alone loop creation bullshit.

Ypu are just an insane low IQ illiterate.

That's not what that plotline is about, and I already explained it.
The point of the spy shit is not to establish Ariane as bioresonant.
The point is to link her to the impirial royal family and potentially make the player think about her in relation to Falke AND give us the hint about her aunt and the radio signals.

Those two bits are the point of the spy subplot.

Well, obviously no.
I mean, right?
If that was the point.
They would actually go on and show Ariane doing that.
But they don't.
Because that's not the point.

In your delusional head you jump to that conclusion, because you are a dumbfrick too lazy to think.

But that's not what the game actually does.

And like I keep saying.

You will never be able to produce as in-game piece of textual evidence to support your insane claim.

Because it doesn't exist.

The digging part is you using synchronicity.
THat actually takes effort in order to explain the story.

You are the dumbfrick that raises his hands in the air, having given up.

"Ariane is a strong bioresonant, she can do anything!"

OK, what does she do? Where is your evidence for her doing anything?

The game revolves around elster experiencing sinchronicity,

Ariane is the macguffin and context around the story.

All of those explain
1. The backstory.
2. The context regarding the eldritch/horror/surealist themes of the game.
3. Elster's motivation.

The game is not ABOUT those things though.

It's about Elster experiencing synchronicity.

The main thrust of the game is figuring out that Elster is based on the person next to Alina Seo in the photo.

That's the driving mystery.

We never go anywhere near Ariane land for the whole game.
The game skirts as much around Ariane as it possible can, in fact.

Yes, you piece some info regarding her by digging deeper.

Because that's not who the game is about.

Mister Ariane is the be all end all of the game.

If you don't dig deep most people wont even know who is Ariane and why is there a girl in a pod at the end.

That's how much the game is about her on a surface level reading of the game.

No argument, no evidence/
It's not about her.
Even if it was.
Still no evidence for her bending reality, let alone creating loops across the galaxy and manipulating timespace, memories and minds along the way.

Elster is on a mission with her, she's her partner, and she is a gestalt (rather than a more passive replika), of course a lot of info in the game will be related to her. She is a main character.

She is not what the game is about tho.

She is a main character, so yes alot of info is about her.

But I would actually argue Alina Seo is at least just as important for exmaple.

And so are the events on Vineta with her unit, even though we get less about them.

They are equally important.

But why do you ask the game is not about them either?

Because the game is about what links all these stories together.

What that this is?

Elster. And her experiencing syncrhonicity as she breaks down.

Ariane is in a pod.

She does nothing.

Doesn't go through anything.

She is a plot device in the shape of a main character.

Ariane is mistaken, because Alina Seo is a driving factor for GEstalt Eslter, who is important for Replika Eslter.

You have a lopsided reading of the story and ignore a lot of the details the game gibes you.

Yes, the game is pulling the rug from you regarding some of them. You just have to update your info as the game gives it to you.

They are not part of her dream. No one is a part of anyone's dream.
Elster experiences synchronicity.
Again, there is not a single piece of textual evidence to support your delusion.

Yes, the game is pulling one over you, and constatly tried to disorient you who you are playing as in the moment.
It owuldnt make sense for the game to start with Ariane all the way and just at the end shift to alina,
You do get that structually the narrative is just more potent the way the devs did.
They aren't idiots.

Yes probably logically it probably makes more sense these to have been switched, but that loses the dramatic effect.

My god man, you really haven;t played the fricking game, have you?
THE GAME EXPLAINS SYNCHRONICITY IN A FRICKING READABLE!
My fricking god these autists.

Synchronicity in game is implied but never accurately explained, which makes the anger a little saddening.
It can be understood as a "pattern" turning to match another pattern when bioresonated into doing so, synchronizing the two. It's how replikas are made. They take something with a pre-existing pattern (probably a human brain, all things considered) and override it with another, gestalt pattern. Synchronicity, based on this relevant text, could be understood to imply the process of the other brain coming to match the Gestalt one. Which to me also implies that the "archived patterns," are also live human brains.

Isn't this one literally fricking impossible without a guide or actual, real world amateur radio broadcast understanding?

You just feed the sound into an SSTV decoder and it gives out a picture of the room you find the keys in. It's a bunch of cooperative autism, so you probably do need a guide, unless you're into those real life mystery solving puzzle things whose name I can't recall.

>SYnchronicity in the context of a story discussion means a replika re-living memories of the gestlalt they are based on, and getting confused regarding parsing the memories from reality.
That is, as far as I can recall, defined as personality degradation, rather than synchronicity. I can't recall a single place where this process is called synchronicity in game. The readable

Synchronicity in game is implied but never accurately explained, which makes the anger a little saddening.
It can be understood as a "pattern" turning to match another pattern when bioresonated into doing so, synchronizing the two. It's how replikas are made. They take something with a pre-existing pattern (probably a human brain, all things considered) and override it with another, gestalt pattern. Synchronicity, based on this relevant text, could be understood to imply the process of the other brain coming to match the Gestalt one. Which to me also implies that the "archived patterns," are also live human brains.

[...]
You just feed the sound into an SSTV decoder and it gives out a picture of the room you find the keys in. It's a bunch of cooperative autism, so you probably do need a guide, unless you're into those real life mystery solving puzzle things whose name I can't recall.

is specifically on creating replikas. I could very well be misremembering as well.
I do agree that synchronicity, as defined by the readable I posted, is happening in Sierpinski, but I believe and would argue that it's happening to the entire space itself instead of just people.

>And what do we do in the first chapter?
>Experience Gestlalt eslter memories on Sierpisnky.
But we also experience the effects of synchronicity as I defined it happening on Sierpinski. It appears as if the space itself, all the people, are warping to match some broken pattern that degrades with time, with each "loop." That too, is synchronicity, as defined by the readable in

Synchronicity in game is implied but never accurately explained, which makes the anger a little saddening.
It can be understood as a "pattern" turning to match another pattern when bioresonated into doing so, synchronizing the two. It's how replikas are made. They take something with a pre-existing pattern (probably a human brain, all things considered) and override it with another, gestalt pattern. Synchronicity, based on this relevant text, could be understood to imply the process of the other brain coming to match the Gestalt one. Which to me also implies that the "archived patterns," are also live human brains.

[...]
You just feed the sound into an SSTV decoder and it gives out a picture of the room you find the keys in. It's a bunch of cooperative autism, so you probably do need a guide, unless you're into those real life mystery solving puzzle things whose name I can't recall.

But this alone does not explain the dozens of dead Elsters, seemingly reappearing infinitely in the bathroom, with only Elster being undegraded.
>How. Are. You. Not. Getting. It.
Because I am not you and we do not share the same patterns that we base our intuition on. What is clear to you is not to me. We are not synchronized.

>That is, as far as I can recall, defined as personality degradation, rather than synchronicity.
Probably the funniest part about this synchronicity schizo is that he refuses to use the actual canon term for whatever it is he's trying to convey

Intuition is really not schizophrenic, as much as it might seem like it.

No, we simply do not understand what exactly you mean by your words since you use them in different ways than we do and refuse to elaborate, instead choosing to call us morons and morons when our interpretation of things does not directly match yours.
You seem to refer to your own personal theories as objective truth, then seemingly base your posts on the assumption that we accept them as truth just as much as you do. And so we can not reach a conclusion because the bases from which we start are wholly different.

Personality degradation is the process of a replika's pattern breaking down and the gestalt's memories coming to their memory. This happens due to time and exposure to triggers, i.e. things from the gestalt's life.
Synchronicity is an undefined process referred to in the Replika creation text, suggesting that it's the synchronization of a pattern into the same shape as another pattern with no direct causal connection, hense the inability to understand why it happens.

>Experience Gestlalt eslter memories on Sierpisnky.
Gestalt Elster as the term is used in these threads is the soldier on Vineta, with matching looks to our current Elster. There is no proof that the gestalt Elster was on Sierpinski or that she has memories from there.

Well actually it is.
In the Unit file it says Elster is based on a vinetan soldier.
Title of chapter 1 says synchronicity,
Elster has persona degradation re-living her gestalt memories.
ANd what are those memories she is reliving?
Searching for alina seo on sierpinsky.

Rocket science.
I know.

I can tell this is your baby steps into surrealist works.

>Rocket science.
>I know.
That is your personal interpretation that you are passing as objective truth.
>I can tell this is your baby steps into surrealist works.
Pot, kettle. Surrealist works are intended to not have any single interpretation. They are a playground for the unconscious mind and the individual's intuition. You seem to lack the real life experience of having your intuition fairly challenged and limited by observable facts, so you treat its products as absolute.

Synchronicity is a Jungian term referring to meaningful occurences where real life events and things match up to things in the mind with no causal connection visible. This fits the "synchronicity" used in game, as the person writing the text can not explain why "it" happens, so suggesting a lack of causal connection.
The fact that Chapter 3's name is Gestaltzerfall, another psychological term, this one not used in the game, would suggest the first chapter's name refers to the Jungian term and not solely the in-game one.

>That's why Chapter 1 is titled SYNCHRONICITY and not PERSONA DEGRADATION.
Once again. This is your personal interpretation.

>There is no proof that the gestalt Elster was on Sierpinski or that she has memories from there.
OK.
So ELster experiences persona degradation.
She is reliving past memories.
But what are these memories she is reliving?
IS it from the war on Vineta?
Or are they on sierpinsky?
But if Elster is based on the person next to ALina Seo in the photo,
Why is she experiencing memories of searchign for her on sierpsky?

You tell me genius.

You are making something thats so obvious the game literally opens with a slap in the face to yiu with the answer into WOAH HOLD ON YOU DON'T KNOW THAT...

Are actually moronic or have you never watched/read a surrealist work before?

>But what are these memories she is reliving?
>IS it from the war on Vineta?
Her experiences on Vineta. Which is why we get flashbacks into those memories, but don't actually get to play there. Which is why Ariane's face blends with Alina's. Which is arguably also why Elster falls in love with Ariane like the gestalt loved Alina. The two look alike, after all.
>Why is she experiencing memories of searchign for her on sierpsky?
It is again, YOUR assumption, that they are memories and not something that is genuinely happening.
>Or are they on sierpinsky?
If they are not on Sierpinsky, how do you explain the Rotfront chapter? At what point was the gestalt Elster in Rotfront? When did she go through personal files?
>Are actually moronic or have you never watched/read a surrealist work before?
I don't think you understand what surrealism is, if you assume there is a single, cohesive plot narrative to be found.

>So ELster experiences persona degradation.
>She is reliving past memories.
Proof?

The unopened Elster pattern file on Penrose forbids the user from exposing the LSTR to just about all the things Ariane actually exposes her to. We get flashbacks of the Gestalt pattern's memories and experiences, the two blend together.

>The game gives you all the into in order to get what is happening.
And your interpretation is still not the objectively correct one.
>You don't need to know the Jungian definition of synchronicity in order to make the connection with persona degradation and reliving past gestalt memories
And nobody implied that. The disagreement is with synchronicity meaning those things at all. There is nothing in the game to confirm that synchronicity is personality degradation.

>It is again, YOUR assumption, that they are memories and not something that is genuinely happening.
If it is something genuinely happening, how is she time traveling and planet teleporting?

Same way there are countless Elsters being recreated in the bathroom time and again to the extent they've filled up an elevator shaft. Adler mentioned seeing an Elster without one ever coming to the facility. Kolibris confirmed he'd seen one.

>If they are not on Sierpinsky, how do you explain the Rotfront chapter? At what point was the gestalt Elster in Rotfront? When did she go through personal files?
Gestalt Elster goes to Rotfront first to look for Alina, then goes to Sierpisnky.

The squad they were in had 8 members and there are six graves. One woman is shown to be alive on the files in Rotfront and in pre-release cutscene stuff, in flashbacks looking at the grave.
This leaves either Alina or the Gestalt Elster as dead. Elster places a pot of lilies on a grave in one ending and a flashback shows those flowers on the same grave.

Once again, your personal interpretation is not the objectively correct one.
You are immature and your intuition is palpably out of control. No amount of anger and curses will turn your interpretation into objective fact.

>Same way there are countless Elsters being recreated in the bathroom time and again to the extent they've filled up an elevator shaft. Adler mentioned seeing an Elster without one ever coming to the facility. Kolibris confirmed he'd seen one.
Why do you think elster specifically DOESN"T have a comment regarding that eslter shaft?????????????????????????????????

That's something the devs put there (or ratehr DIDN'T) ON PURPOSE,

To not blatantly explain a plotpoint to the viewer, but to require perception and interpretation from them.

>To not blatantly explain a plotpoint to the viewer, but to require perception and interpretation from them.
Absolute.
Troglodute.
moron.
Illiterate,
Autistic,
low iq
midwit

No amount of anger and insults will turn intuition into objective fact.

>But in the world of literature you actually CAN make authoritative interpretations.
How silly.

>To not blatantly explain a plotpoint to the viewer, but to require perception and interpretation from them.
Absolute.
Troglodute.
moron.
Illiterate,
Autistic,
low iq
midwit

No shit Sherlock, they made the whole game on purpose!

Adler confirmed it was an Elster pattern. How would they mistake a human for an LSTR? LSTRs don't have feet, bro. They have a distinct armor and style.
Gestalt Elster was scarred unlike the LSTR pattern and probably even lost an eye.

>Dude he caught a glipne on the corner of his eyes of gestalt elster.
Not a single thing in the game supports this. Not a single thing in game suggests Gestalt Elster could have just gone into what amounts to a gulag camp in space.
>The timeframe doesn;t allow that.
Elster units reappear in the bathroom. We have seen the dozens of corpses. We have read Adler say he's done it many times before. We even see him ask for the West Wing pass before Elster even says she has a photo with her. He KNOWS, you have the photo already, because he's done it before.

>you can't explain that
Elster patterns appear in the bathroom at the start of each "loop." Sierpinski is a gulag with cameras monitoring entrances and exits and the only entrance being guarded. To even enter the facility, Gestalt Elster would have had to have been logged and accepted for entry, which Adler would know about since he is the main administrator under Falke.

>It is again, YOUR assumption, that they are memories and not something that is genuinely happening.
If it is something genuinely happening, how is she time traveling and planet teleporting?

Which is not evidence for anything, but thanks for trying, better luck next time.

There is no ariane dream.
Not an interpretation.
Her sleeping has no bearing on anything on the game.
You can't interpret the game through something that doesn;t exist.

>It is again, YOUR assumption, that they are memories and not something that is genuinely happening.
If it is something genuinely happening, how is she time traveling and planet teleporting?

By the way this is also why the armor changes.
IF you read the notes you will read how the old (I think) Elster model has an iconic white armor, yet the new one comes without it,

>There is no proof that the gestalt Elster was on Sierpinski or that she has memories from there.
OK.
So ELster experiences persona degradation.
She is reliving past memories.
But what are these memories she is reliving?
IS it from the war on Vineta?
Or are they on sierpinsky?
But if Elster is based on the person next to ALina Seo in the photo,
Why is she experiencing memories of searchign for her on sierpsky?

You tell me genius.

You are making something thats so obvious the game literally opens with a slap in the face to yiu with the answer into WOAH HOLD ON YOU DON'T KNOW THAT...

Are actually moronic or have you never watched/read a surrealist work before?

>So ELster experiences persona degradation.
>She is reliving past memories.
Proof?

Whoa whoa, “gestalt Elster on sierpisnkey?”
Where did you get that? That’s not in the game.

>That is, as far as I can recall, defined as personality degradation, rather than synchronicity.
Probably the funniest part about this synchronicity schizo is that he refuses to use the actual canon term for whatever it is he's trying to convey

Because I actually played the game I know that what you are poorly trying to convey is called "persona degradation" in literally every readable that talks about it, and never synchronicity
I have to say I still fail to see how Adler relieving (one of) his gestalt memories is causing him to experience killing some dyke robot hundreds of times. I guess he was based on a schizo?

It really doesn't. What it establishes is that what you call synchronicity is persona degradation

>I guess he was based on a schizo?
Check that Nguyen guy's medical record again.

I did, didn't find anything about him mudering dykes

>I guess he was based on a schizo?
Check that Nguyen guy's medical record again.

>Dozens of readables.
What proof do we have any of those are accurate or real if 'breaking down robot mindfricked'? What reason do you have not to just dismiss them out of hand just like the evidence for the loops?

>Adler doesn't figure out anything.

[headcanon]

> You have to take into account that this comes from a mindfricked Replika
I get it bro, Adler is quackin crazy so thankfully you can ignore literally everything he says and observes that contradicts your headcanons

Yeah bro yes cray cray you so smart

>Then by the same token Elster you play is mindfricked as well so anything she experiences in the game is not a solid evidence as well.
DING DING DING.
BINGO!
WE HAVE A WINNER!

I'm the guy that says its not a dream.
Elster being fricked doesn't mean we can't understand why, when, where, how.
What we CAN understand once we realize she is mindfricked, is that there is no loop/dream/timetravel.
She is experiencing Gestlat memories as she breaks down, but there is actual real truth, events that happened in those memories.

I get your point, but if you were an author, how would you go about creating a work which intentionally confuses fact and in-universe fabrication?
here has to a point where the audience suspends it's disbelief.
What I don't get is why people are so adamant on loops, and so completely ignore synchronicity,
I don;t think I have ever seen anyone advocating for loops even mention synchronicity, or even begin to explain why the first chapters is named that (even though we actually understand what that word means in later chapters),
They they come to me and say I ignore "evidence"...

Yes, don't you think bioresonance and synchronicity can also give explanations to that?

I get how people use those for evidence for loops, to to me the alternative seems at least as plausible, while most people just ignore all the rest of the game's textual and otherwise evidence.

Creating reality is very different from creating cycles.
Same old fricking story as Silent Hill.
Corrupted world doesn't mean ANOTHER world.

Signalis goes out of its way to establish that frick up perception of reality can be a result of Synchronicity.

Falke is fricking shit up in Sierpisnky. Creating nowhere, corrupting the replikas. But nowhere the game establishes that she somehow makes timespace loops. You see the multiple bodies and headcanon the connection that one must also mean the other, because it sounds plausible.

If you think Falke makes people think they are in a loop, you can just as easily argue for synchronicity as well.

One more thing to think about - Elster doesn't actually need a Falke mucking reality. She is an old model breaking down. In her mind anything can happen: degradation + synchronicity can explain most without ever needing a haywire Falke, or Ariane.

Dreams still have meaning even if they aren't real, they're un. Go read up on Jungian dream analysis after you realize that he's the man who coined the term Synchronicity.
>“Dreams are impartial, spontaneous products of the unconscious psyche, outside the control of the will. They are pure nature; they show us the unvarnished, natural truth, and are therefore fitted, as nothing else is, to give us back an attitude that accords with our basic human nature when our consciousness has strayed too far from its foundations and run into an impasse.”

Dream recall needs to be learned and stress effectively annihilates it. Your brain ordinarily wipes out your memories of your dreams unless you've learned to maintain them. Even then, you need to lie still in bed for a while and bring them back into mind or else they fade away. Any kind of real movement, engagement with the world, is likely to remove the memories.

Agreed. The cycles for example are real.

Well actually it is.
In the Unit file it says Elster is based on a vinetan soldier.
Title of chapter 1 says synchronicity,
Elster has persona degradation re-living her gestalt memories.
ANd what are those memories she is reliving?
Searching for alina seo on sierpinsky.

Rocket science.
I know.

I can tell this is your baby steps into surrealist works.

>le surrealism

This isn't how surrealism works.

>uni

Not very surrealist of you.

>Most people see crazy silent hill shit, think " you can;t explain that

Except the game explains it for you. They find something horrible in the mine that corrupts Falke and ends up trapping all the people in the mine in a loop where they repeat the same day over and over again until reality falls apart. This isn't some dream logic shit, this isn't time travel, Adler straight up tells you that reality is torn apart.

Explain synchronicity to me.

Really curious how Ariane never even mentions Sierpinski in her reasoning for joining Penrose since it was apparently the critical deciding factor, only how much she detested Rotfront and everything and everyone on it and how much she wanted to leave.

Yes, literally the first note she wrote aboard the penrose (the first one you can read anyway)

That's a very cute model

And mysteriously she only joined when she had the risk of being gulag'd facing her.
>It even mentions the school so clearly she was considering joining for a looooong time.
Why would she be sick of the school THEN, when she joined the Penrose program after her military service. She'd already left the school so why would she be sick of it? The second line does not describe her motivations at the time of joining.

Well, after her compulsory military service then. Far as I recall, she served as an off-planetary comms officer.

>She joined as soon as she could do it, when she finished the military program.
Can you show any in-game evidence for that?
>To illustrate how she was already planning on joining long before she could actually join?
Nothing there suggests that. It just says she was sick of school. Does the text continue on the next page?
>the elephant int the room: she never ever mentions Sierpinski as a reason for her joining,
That is only an elephant for you. The reality of it was that she was threatened with space gulag and right after went off flying into space instead. Human motivations and emotions exist without being written down specifically and explicitly in text.
Even if you don't understand them.
>Another thing, the letter than informs her of Sierpinski also says she had already sent her application to Penrose.
Proofs?

>Evidence that she has to complete her military training before being accepted for a military mission? How about common sense? Talk about grasping at straws LMAO
That she joined as soon as she could. I assume you realized what I meant and ignored it intentionally like you did the rest of the post.
>Literally the letter that informs her about Sierpinski. Have you tried reading? A very useful skill.
So no proofs, ok.

So no proofs, ok.

She read too many books. Clearly they should be banned so that doesn't happen again.